Lore and Level

[Brasi]

I am a HUGE lore nut.  I want to know it all, so i read this forum a lot.  The thing is I seem to not really get as much lor as I want in game, so i come to you guys asking for a little help.  I have a warlock in the early 20's and I was wondering where to start for som good Norath lore?  does anyone have a breakdown of good places to go at different levels so we can learn more?  in the end it's not really the cool gear or graphics that keep me coming back, but the history an story.  Any help would be appreciated.<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Always start with the History of the Races books from the library and go from there.</DIV>

[Nocturnal Aby]

<P>Like Cusa said, start with the History of the Races books, though at 20, some of them will be a little difficult to complete.  Another suggestion: one NPC in each district has lore they talk about.  For instance, in Longshadow, one talks about the sealing of Neriak, in Stonestair Byway, one talks about the Erudites' transformation from the perspective of the kerra, in Nettleville Hovel, a guard talks about the Bloodsaber cult, in Starcrest, an Erudtie tells you a little about the Ashen Order, and how magic has come to imbue combat arts.  In Beggars' Court, a guy talks about when the Ratonga first came to Freeport (only about 15 years ago), and Willow Wood has that eye witness to the War of the Fay.  I love these in game sources of lore.  And for the most part, the lore is somewhat subtle.  Only some quests have lore, and most is found in the multitudes of books you can obtain.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[ganng]

Aside from the history books I have found that (and I know this may sound stupid) if you really read into the quests you get you can learn a lot of regional lore.

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nocturnal Abyss wrote:<BR> <P>Like Cusa said, start with the History of the Races books, though at 20, some of them will be a little difficult to complete.  Another suggestion: one NPC in each district has lore they talk about.  For instance, in Longshadow, one talks about the sealing of Neriak, in Stonestair Byway, one talks about the Erudites' transformation from the perspective of the kerra, in Nettleville Hovel, a guard talks about the Bloodsaber cult, in Starcrest, an Erudtie tells you a little about the Ashen Order, and how magic has come to imbue combat arts.  In Beggars' Court, a guy talks about when the Ratonga first came to Freeport (only about 15 years ago), and Willow Wood has that eye witness to the War of the Fay.  I love these in game sources of lore.  And for the most part, the lore is somewhat subtle.  Only some quests have lore, and most is found in the multitudes of books you can obtain.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>In Starcrest Commune there is an Erudite who talks about how it was the Monks who invented the Arcane Combat arts that all fighters and scouts use today that invoke using magic to add power into thier attacks.</P> <P> </P> <P>Yeah that's another point: Read into the quests that you do. Don't just skip through an NPC's dialogue just to get through it. Let them explain it vocally if they have a voice to explain it with.</P>

[KniteShayd]

<P>Or an easy way to read everything the books have is to go here...</P> <P><A href="http://lorenorrath.free.fr" target=_blank>http://lorenorrath.free.fr</A></P> <P>let the knowladge quench your thirst, young one.</P>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Instant Gratification only leaves you feeling empty inside, which is why I never use that site.</DIV>

[KniteShayd]

<P>Hehehe.  /sigh  </P> <P>Such self discipline.  Commendable sir monk.</P>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>No seriously. I don't use that site because it takes all the fun out of posting anything on these boards. I really don't like it when people just suggest players go find thier answers on that site instead of letting the others of the community help them out.</DIV>

[Kendricke]

<blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<DIV>No seriously. I don't use that site because it takes all the fun out of posting anything on these boards. I really don't like it when people just suggest players go find thier answers on that site instead of letting the others of the community help them out.</DIV><hr></blockquote>I'll fully admit to holding just a bit of bias regarding the community aspects of fansites, so please forgive me if I sound a bit confused when I say: WHAT!?Your post makes it sound as if players who create lore sites or fan sites aren't really members of the community in the first place. Frankly, I have nothing but the utmost respect for those players who put their time and resources into creating such informational sites for the benefit of others - most especially if said time and resources are done without any expectation of remuneration or pay.The old axiom about the difference between giving fish or teaching to fish comes to mind. It's not a bad thing to share knowledge on a subject, but how could it possibly be considered a bad thing to show someone how to acquire their own knowledge on the subject?

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>No seriously. I don't use that site because it takes all the fun out of posting anything on these boards. I really don't like it when people just suggest players go find thier answers on that site instead of letting the others of the community help them out.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>I'll fully admit to holding just a bit of bias regarding the community aspects of fansites, so please forgive me if I sound a bit confused when I say: WHAT!?<BR><BR>Your post makes it sound as if players who create lore sites or fan sites aren't really members of the community in the first place. Frankly, I have nothing but the utmost respect for those players who put their time and resources into creating such informational sites for the benefit of others - most especially if said time and resources are done without any expectation of remuneration or pay.<BR><BR>The old axiom about the difference between giving fish or teaching to fish comes to mind. It's not a bad thing to share knowledge on a subject, but how could it possibly be considered a bad thing to show someone how to acquire their own knowledge on the subject?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The only response I can think of is the Twink-A-Newbie Foundation joke from the first years of EQlive.</P> <P> </P> <P><FONT size=5>"Please twink a noob today. Without your gear, these poor Sons of *****es might actually have to <FONT color=#33cc00>PLAY THE GAME</FONT>."</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=5></FONT> </P> <P>Fansites are fine and all, but whats the point of having them if you're just gonna tell someone on this message board to go search the site and look up thier books there instead of encouraging them to discover it themselves either in the game, or at the least, posting the story yourself even if you just copy and pasted from the website?</P>

[Kendricke]

I still feel firmly that it's not a bad thing to show someone where to go to find their own answers rather than just handing them answers, or worse - setting ourselves up to be the only repositories of such answers.Really, what's more important? That the player learns how and where to find the answers for themselves...or being the center of attention for such questions in the first place?Whether someone is able to find their answers here, one the site I work for, or some other site...the important part of the issue in my mind is just that the person find the answer. If we can provide them the opportunity to learn that answer for themselves - so much the better, by my way of thinking.

[RaphaNissi]

<div><blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote:I still feel firmly that it's not a bad thing to show someone where to go to find their own answers rather than just handing them answers, or worse - setting ourselves up to be the only repositories of such answers.Really, what's more important? That the player learns how and where to find the answers for themselves...or being the center of attention for such questions in the first place?Whether someone is able to find their answers here, one the site I work for, or some other site...the important part of the issue in my mind is just that the person find the answer. If we can provide them the opportunity to learn that answer for themselves - so much the better, by my way of thinking.<hr></blockquote>I would agree with you.  I have posted several links to the stories because then the person can see that I have proof for what I am saying and not just making it up.  Also,some people don't have the time to find and finish all the books in the game or time to go back and read through all their books to find exactly what they are looking for.  I don't see how doing a search on that page would be any different than searching on these lore forums for an answer.  I also like to use it so that I know that I know what I am talking about when posting or that I'm not posting false information.  Gosh, I hate it when I post something and then someone comes along and proves me completely wrong because I didn't do my research.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Nocturnal Aby]

<P>I have to side with Kendrick on this one.  So many times I've logged on this site to find people quoting assumptions they've made as lore, and if the topic if obscure enough, than the fact that the statement made is NOT lore, but simply someone connecting their own dots creates false lore.  If someone has a SPECIFIC lore question, I'm more than happy to try to answer it to the best of my ability (and if asked, will quote sources, such as Lumena's site above), but if someone is simply asking where they can find more information, Library sites, Lumena's in particular, offers a better lore foundation than anything they can get in game.  Sites like Lumena's offers text from in game events that are no longer in game, and Lumena's offers lore from BOTH Everquest AND Everquest 2, making her site an invaluable tool, since there are those, like myself who cannot afford to keep both their EQ and EQ2 accounts active, not to mention the pains it takes to go through and find all of the obscure references in EQ (such as the various dusty kobold scroll from the Warrens, and the writing from the now revamped splitpaw), as well as, again, events and documentation that is no longer on the Sony's sites, such as the lead up to Shadows of Luclin, where Al'Kabor discovers that the Combine Empire didn't make the wizard Spired, but simply put the pyramids in the middle of them to help to amplify their power.  Library sites also provide hard copy back up to what someone might post here, places where if questioned about the validity of the information we claim, we can site the in game source, and a place where they can go read what the in game source says without having to kill the 100 mobs needed to complete a book, or work a character in the opposite city up to level 30 just in order to be high enough to safely complete a History of book.</P> <P>Furthermore, sites like Lumena's don't offer ALL the lore in game, in fact, much of the stuff obtained from NPC dialogue and quests is excluded, as the sites are merely a library of ingame books, and a catalogue of Live Events/Quests, such as the Overlord making it rain in the Commonlands and Freeport, or the Roekillik live event.</P> <P>To say that such sites spoil the reason for the forums simply displays that you really haven't been to those sites.</P> <P>Oh, and I commented about the erudite in Starcrest in my first reply, go ahead and read the whole thing, usually helps</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>bah. Posting assumptions without proof is what makes this forum so much fun.</DIV>

[Kendricke]

<blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<DIV>bah. Posting assumptions without proof is what makes this forum so much fun.</DIV><hr></blockquote>It's also frustrating to those who take the assumers at their word.Assumptions are fine, so long as they're worded as assumption. The problem comes in when any of us take our assumptions and word them as rock solid fact. Though a few of us will regularly challenge such statements, the majority of players will typically just presume that such statements are true and never realize otherwise.In such cases, these forums actually perform a disservice to the community, rather than helping. That's where a fact based fansites or loresite can make all the difference.

[Kendricke]

<i>...and to get back to a different, earlier point regarding "instant gratification":</i>Some of us don't like spoilers. Some of us do. By having the information available on a separate site, we make it easy to access the information if that's what an individual wants.Truly, some players simply don't have the time to spend lurking about within forums, asking questions and spending hours or even days waiting for an answer which may not even be correct, just because someone thought an assumption might be "fun".Some players just really might want a Joe Friday "just the facts, ma'am" answer. Not knowing the facts was a hallmark of classic Everquest, where it took years for anyone to get a developer to even confirm how taunt or armor class actually worked. To some players, I'm sure having to work for the answer over such a long period of time was great fun, but for the majority of players, I'd wager they just wanted to know the answer so they could spend their time playing for fun instead of parsing logs and setting up in-game experiments.In Everquest 2, the developers have long stated that such information would be more accessible here. The fun is to be found in the gameplay, not in trying to figure out the gameplay. As far as lore knowledge goes, in my opinion the information is there to share - not to hoarde. By telling players they essentially have to go through us, we set ourselves up to be the gatekeepers of knowledge - an intellectual class above the unwashed, ignorant masses.Personally, I'd prefer that the information were instantly available to players, that they could make up their own minds on whether or not to take advantage of such avenues toward self-education, rather than relying upon the word of the hallowed keepers of such secrets as we.As a monk, you may feel differently - that such knowledge must come with great effort or perhaps through struggle. As a Priest of Marr, I teach that truth will set you free...and that it should come with as little a price as possible. For we who follow my Order, we believe that it's what one does with the truth which truly matters - not the trials one must endure to find such truth in the first place.Indeed, we recognize that knowledge is power. We also recognize that some feel that power must be kept and hidden, lest others also gain such power. For myself and those of my order, we recognize that the true power is in the sharing, not in the keeping.

[Kenazeer]

<P>Here is a good site for books also if you feel inclined to use it.</P> <P><A href="http://www.eiwyn.arcanya.com/" target=_blank>http://www.eiwyn.arcanya.com/</A></P> <P> </P>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<DIV>Here's another factor I will toss into the pot: </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The lore of Norrath is like a swiss cheese, full of holes and gaps.  It is often contradictory, even within the same book(s), and it is dynamic; as the developers fill in back stories for evolving plot lines.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What was written down somewhere in the Scars of Velious expansion, for instance, may have been revised, updated, or proven to be false somewhere further along the 'lore trail'.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Additionally, bits and pieces of non-offical lore have worked their way into official status, which leads one to jump to the, (often incorrect),  assumption that if this <STRONG>one</STRONG> piece is true, why then the <STRONG>whole</STRONG> of it must be true as well!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Add player speculation about missing areas of lore, and you have a pretty confused mix.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And we won't even get into fan-fiction!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This models reality very well, and I think it is a good thing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Consider our own lore and legends surrounding the Knights Templar or King Arthur.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It allows for the creation of myths and legends.  It even divides players into the esoteric and the orthodox; all as it should be IMHO.</DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mary the Prophetess wrote:<BR> <DIV>Here's another factor I will toss into the pot: </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The lore of Norrath is like a swiss cheese, full of holes and gaps.  It is often contradictory, even within the same book(s), and it is dynamic; as the developers fill in back stories for evolving plot lines.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What was written down somewhere in the Scars of Velious expansion, for instance, may have been revised, updated, or proven to be false somewhere further along the 'lore trail'.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Additionally, bits and pieces of non-offical lore have worked their way into official status, which leads one to jump to the, (often incorrect),  assumption that if this <STRONG>one</STRONG> piece is true, why then the <STRONG>whole</STRONG> of it must be true as well!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Add player speculation about missing areas of lore, and you have a pretty confused mix.<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Valid point, but so far in EQ2, not too much has happened on a scale like that. You got the revamp of the Commonlands and Nektulos Forest, but the stories themselves from those zones still remain unchanged for the most part.</DIV>

[Ama]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Brasius wrote:<BR>I am a HUGE lore nut.  I want to know it all, so i read this forum a lot.  The thing is I seem to not really get as much lor as I want in game, so i come to you guys asking for a little help.  I have a warlock in the early 20's and I was wondering where to start for som good Norath lore?  does anyone have a breakdown of good places to go at different levels so we can learn more?  in the end it's not really the cool gear or graphics that keep me coming back, but the history an story.  Any help would be appreciated.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Ya I would go with others saying the race area is a good place to start even going as far as developing a back story for your character.  You say you have a warlock in your early 20s yet what race is he/she?  I myself have a barbarian warlock and the reason behind her being a warlock is she wants to help study the diseases and poisons of Norrath.  Her unique title being Hexra scholar of disease and poisons.  This backing also fits into the taken out "completion quest" in which you had to complete a series of quests then a final quest to determine what your class was.  It was there that Hexra's mentor told her that if she became a warlock she must study poisons and diseases to aid her fellow adventurers in battle never using them in anger. </DIV> <P>As for another good lore aspect to look into I recommend the lore of perspective areas that have been heavly talked about.  Nektropos Castle, Ruins of Varsoon, Power of Dragons, Lucan D'Lere *sp* and such to get a good assumption of what many of us talk about.  I myself am still a novice lore person but I know a bit more about lore than your average person. :smileywink:</P><p>Message Edited by Amana on <span class=date_text>08-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:01 PM</span>