I know I'm possibly expecting too much depth behind a game mechanic, but...

[Renita_Serafim]

<DIV>...why is conjuration illegal in Freeport?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yeah, I know the metagame reason for class balance, but why did Lucan do it from a lore prespective? Is there even a reason?</DIV><p>Message Edited by Astralmage on <span class=date_text>08-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:12 AM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>It's not illegal. If it was, Necromancy would be too.</DIV>

[Renita_Serafim]

I assume it's illegal since Conjurors have to become Necromancers as soon as they're accepted into Freeport.

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>But necromancers have to conjure up the dead, so....</DIV>

[SharpeRif]

<P>Actually its possible that the could be in opposition to each other....old theories of how life workedoften revolved around the elements and that everything living existed as a blending of the Four Elements...and this could actually affect you...i.e. Hot-Tempered...too much Fire in you...thus the elements the Conjurers summon could be seen as being in direct opposition to the death that necros sumon...as well as the undead Lord of Freeport himself.</P> <P> </P> <P>Its all coming out my rear here...but it spins a nice pile don't it...:smileyvery-happy:</P>

[TorturedOne21]

<DIV>my guess is that it's a governmental favor, paid for by necromancers in their bid to maintain a coercive monopoly over conjuration magic. Or maybe it's more like a labor union, that forbids non-union labor to compete in their market? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Dear Lucan, I have a sum of X amount of platinum, to be generously donated to your cause. Of course, before this sum is donated, I would like to bring to your attention the destructive and treasonous practices of a certain school of magical thought..."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>it's the only thing I can think of in an otherwise rational-thinking world.</DIV><p>Message Edited by TorturedOne21 on <span class=date_text>08-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:01 AM</span>

[Red_Rock_Candy]

<div></div>I just think that Necromancy is considered a superior form of summoning to those who live in Freeport.<div></div>

[IrishWonder]

<DIV>It's competition over chicks. Ladies think guys who can build stuff with fire are hot. On the other hand, running around with a rotten fly-ridden corpse... not so hot. Necros got tired of the competition, so they kicked Conjurors out. Well... they THINK they kicked conjurors out. Conjurors really left of their own free will, because Qeynos has hotter ladies.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Am I wrong?</DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IrishWonder wrote:<BR> <DIV>It's competition over chicks. Ladies think guys who can build stuff with fire are hot. On the other hand, running around with a rotten fly-ridden corpse... not so hot. Necros got tired of the competition, so they kicked Conjurors out. Well... they THINK they kicked conjurors out. Conjurors really left of their own free will, because Qeynos has hotter ladies.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Am I wrong?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>No, that pretty much sums things up.

[KniteShayd]

<P>Perhaps the art of the Magician evolved some and found refuge, in it's evolution, in Qeynos.  Perhaps the Tower of the Three thought more of the art and persued it further than the Arcance Scientists.  </P> <P>It could be that Necromancy was an 'easier' art since the dead were summoned from the ground, while a Magician's (Conjy's) summonings took more effort as they were being pulled from another plane.  </P> <P>In war, and in prep for it, it would be more efficient for FP to summon undead minions to overwhelm and conquer enemies.</P> <P>just my theories and opinions though.</P>

[Soldross]

<div><blockquote><hr>Astralmage wrote:<div></div> <div>...why is conjuration illegal in Freeport?</div> <div> </div> <div>Yeah, I know the metagame reason for class balance, but why did Lucan do it from a lore prespective? Is there even a reason?</div><p>Message Edited by Astralmage on <span class="date_text">08-12-2006</span> <span class="time_text">02:12 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>There can be a variety of literary reasons for this depending on how the rules of summoning are built up in the gameworld. Take Elric as an example. Races made compacts with denizens of the various planes and due to those agreements summoning  was possible.  It is possible that in Norrath summoners are dealing and making pacts with various Planes and the beings they are making pacts with have their own agendas which naturally align with the respective cities. A conjuror betraying to Freeport may have no choice but to break the pacts he made with the elementals and create new ones with the darker realms because the elementals may no longer support his now evil intentions.This probably isn't the reason but from an IC standpoint it provides some decent justification.</div>

[Mirander_1]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Soldross wrote:<div> It is possible that in Norrath summoners are dealing and making pacts with various Planes and the beings they are making pacts with have their own agendas which naturally align with the respective cities.</div><hr></blockquote>Hmm.. Ya know, I think you might just be on to something.  Ok, run with me on this one guys.  Conjuror's pets come from the four greater elemental planes; we know from the 1st chapter of the Tome of Destiny that the Elemental Gods agreed with Quellious' plan to deal with the mortals, we also know that Rallos and his allies disagreed and tried to mess everything up.   Now after all the wars and catclysms were through on Norrath, the followers of Quellious and her allies largely settled in Qeynos, and the followers of Rallos and his allies largely ended up in Freeport.  Perhaps, because of Rallos interfering with the gods' collective plan for the world, the Elemental Gods refuse to let their servants answer the summons of the citizens of Freeport.  In time, the conjurors of Freeport take up different trades, many perhaps becoming necromancers.The whole theory isn't all that likely to indeed be the case, but it all kinda works if you think about it</div>

[Einsteinb]

<DIV>It could also be a general lack of support for the Conjuring profession. There might not be the facilities in place in the Arcane Sciences building to support Conjuror training. This could be due to lack of interest, or perhaps competition between professions. Without the support of the mage faction for advancement, it becomes wise to simply change over to another profession.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Though personally I would be quite interested in seeing some of those profession requirements slackened to allow for new RP options (Bloodsaber SKs hiding in Qeynos?).</DIV><p>Message Edited by Einsteinb on <span class=date_text>08-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:58 AM</span>

[ke'la]

<P>I think we are looking at this from the wrong perspective. While Qyenos is "good" they can be just as bigited and small brained as FP, and as Necromancy is consitered by many to be Purely Evil they are not welcome in Qyenos, while at the same time Conj's see Necromancy as a Perversion of thier craft and want Nothing to do with a city that would welcome those that would practous that perverted magic.</P> <P>I think in this case its more an anamosity betwean the too classes then the cities themselfs saying "You can't be hear"... atleast to a degree.</P> <P>Infact class anamosity can explain alot of the reasons why the otherside is not welcome.</P>

[KniteShayd]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ke'la wrote:<BR> <P>I think we are looking at this from the wrong perspective. While Qyenos is "good" <FONT color=#ff0099>they can be just as bigited and small brained as FP</FONT>, and as Necromancy is consitered by many to be Purely Evil they are not welcome in Qyenos, while at the same time Conj's see Necromancy as a Perversion of thier craft and want Nothing to do with a city that would welcome those that would practous that perverted magic.</P> <P>I think in this case its more an anamosity betwean the too classes then the cities themselfs saying "You can't be hear"... atleast to a degree.</P> <P>Infact class anamosity can explain alot of the reasons why the otherside is not welcome.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Thats why i feel coercers, assassins, and inquisitors should be allowed in qeynos and illusionists, swashbucklers, and conjurers should be in FP too.</P> <P>i'd like to see necros and Sk's starting in Qeynos in the sewers, like in EQLive</P>

[Eriol]

Najena's still around, and she's a conjuror, though of course, she's not a citizen of Freeport either.Want another fly in the ointment? Explain the Monks of Kunark (we've already seen at least one of their representatives). What will happen when/if that continent gets put into the game? They are NOT bruisers (the lore already has words about how the Overlord formed the idea of Bruisers, who aren't true monks).

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eriol wrote:<BR>Najena's still around, and she's a conjuror, though of course, she's not a citizen of Freeport either.<BR><BR>Want another fly in the ointment? Explain the Monks of Kunark (we've already seen at least one of their representatives). What will happen when/if that continent gets put into the game? They are NOT bruisers (the lore already has words about how the Overlord formed the idea of Bruisers, who aren't true monks).<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I see no problem there. The Swifttail Caste is aggresive but they still have a solid foundation of ideologies, philosophies and expecially disciplines that solidify who they are.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>*EDIT*</P> <P> </P> <P>Oh wait, it just hit me. You're refering to how the Iksar are an evil race but monks are a class of Order, and not Chaos.</P> <P> </P> <P>Sony stated that future cities released in future expansion will not strictly be good or evil. they will be neutral with a split of classes.</P> <P> </P> <P>In other words: Monks and Shadowknights, but no Bruisers or Paladins.</P><p>Message Edited by Cusashorn on <span class=date_text>08-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:32 PM</span>

[TorturedOne21]

<P>why is it that anything that does not conform to relativism (the idea that there is no good and evil) is written off as bigoted and small-brained?</P> <P>There's no reason to respect someone's beliefs if that person's beliefs are clearly evil.</P>

[Eriol]

<blockquote><hr>TorturedOne21 wrote:<P>why is it that anything that does not conform to relativism (the idea that there is no good and evil) is written off as bigoted and small-brained?</P><P>There's no reason to respect someone's beliefs if that person's beliefs are clearly evil.</P><hr></blockquote>Product of modern society, though that's a completely other (and political) discussion, which would lock this... rather quickly.And Cusa, Kelethin is "good-aligned," (they've stated it) so it's kind of a tossup as to what exactly will occur when a city like Cabilis (or its successor... the Iksar have a problem with cities getting sacked (Sebilis) ) is added to the game.

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eriol wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TorturedOne21 wrote: <P>why is it that anything that does not conform to relativism (the idea that there is no good and evil) is written off as bigoted and small-brained?</P> <P>There's no reason to respect someone's beliefs if that person's beliefs are clearly evil.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Product of modern society, though that's a completely other (and political) discussion, which would lock this... rather quickly.<BR><BR><BR>And Cusa, Kelethin is "good-aligned," (they've stated it) so it's kind of a tossup as to what exactly will occur when a city like Cabilis (or its successor... the Iksar have a problem with cities getting sacked (Sebilis) ) is added to the game.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I wasn't talking about Kelethin. I was talking about FUTURE cities.