Monks of the old world lore/history

[Rezikai]

<DIV>Ya know.. I was never really big on monks.. I'm a rogue and never seen the need for them.. :smiley tongue:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but.. I was kicking around DoF the other night and I came across the Ashen order in the Pillar of flames.. this got me thinking...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Freeport once had monks in it... back in EQ1.. ..now.. back in EQoA there were no monks in Eastern Tunaria.. as a matter of fact the only monks anywhere near the desert.. were at perhaps one of my favorite zones from old 'OA... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Muniel's Tea Garden.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This idea started tossing around in my noggin about where the monks of the eastern part of Antonica came from .. as i never played a monk in EQ1 i never really learned much of the Lore on them...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so in a boyish fantasy I thought it'd be funny if Muniel packed up camp and/or his disciples moved to Freeport.. eh.. anyone have early monk lore for the Ashen order or pre-ashen monks of the eastern side of antonica?</DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>The Ashen Order originated in Freeport, but moved out of thier own will when they decided they didn't want to live under the rule of Lucan.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, you have Fallen Dynasty? You'll find all your monk lore from the historian in the tower.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You'll also find more monk lore from inside the Cave of Knowledge located below T'Narev in Pillars of Flame, but you need to complete a lot of quests before your allowed to enter there.</DIV>

[Pyrrhx]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Porkchop133 wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>back in EQoA there were no monks in Eastern Tunaria.. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Aside from Muniel's Tea Garden, there was an entire clan of Eastern Monks just north of Oasis in the great wastes of Ro.--> The Monks of the Endless Tower. </P> <P>Additionally, there were two additional clans of Monks in central Tunaria, both east of Moradhim (NW of Rivervale)--> The Seisen at Shon-To's Monastery, and the Monks of the Hidden Village. </P> <P>Those were the Monk clans from EQOA.  <BR></P>

[Rezikai]

<P>Bah how could i forget that dam Monk tower....  its alot like the one we have in TFD right now in EQ2...</P> <P>and now that u mention it i vaguely remember the hidden monk village.. wasnt it like a crevace we had to go inside to even get the the small glade it was in...?</P>

[Pyrrhx]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Porkchop133 wrote:<BR> <P>Bah how could i forget that dam Monk tower....  its alot like the one we have in TFD right now in EQ2...</P> <P>and now that u mention it i vaguely remember the hidden monk village.. wasnt it like a crevace we had to go inside to even get the the small glade it was in...?</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>There was a tunnel from the glade the village was located out into the large valley that was SE of Shon-to, and W-SW of the orc-infested Thedruk mine tunnel.  There was a large lake directly infront of the tunnel entrance.

[Moorgard]

Those paying close attention to the recently posted EoF teaser video can catch a glimpse of an area in the Lesser Faydark that has historical significance to monks... and that may have relevance to their future as well.

[Coccinea_Maga]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> Those paying close attention to the recently posted EoF teaser video can catch a glimpse of an area in the Lesser Faydark that has historical significance to monks... and that may have relevance to their future as well.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>:smileysurprised:</P> <P>Thanks for the information Moorgard.  It did look a tad out of place among all of the giant pastel fungi.  </P>

[troodon]

IMO, there's a very disproportionate amount of Monk lore in this game.  Every single Monk clan that existed in the Age of Turmoil is in some way represented in the game while every other class guild from EQ1 has vanished with the exceptions of ones in Freeport and Qeynos, the Bouncers (no lore here), and the Guardians of the Vale (Halfling Deputies).  Rather absurd.<p>Message Edited by troodon on <span class=date_text>08-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:13 PM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> Those paying close attention to the recently posted EoF teaser video can catch a glimpse of an area in the Lesser Faydark that has historical significance to monks... and that may have relevance to their future as well.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Oh hooo... So the encampment of the great Master Wu shall be revealed? Excellent.</P> <P> </P> <P>Thank you Moorgard. I can't wait for the expansion to come out so I can rush there and see for myself.</P>

[Didi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> troodon wrote:<BR> IMO, there's a very disproportionate amount of Monk lore in this game.  Every single Monk clan that existed in the Age of Turmoil is in some way represented in the game while every other class guild from EQ1 has vanished with the exceptions of ones in Freeport and Qeynos, the Bouncers (no lore here), and the Guardians of the Vale (Halfling Deputies).  Rather absurd.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>It does indeed seem that EQ2 has a disproportionate amount of monk lore (and titles too),  That had definitely struck me as well.</P> <P>Eventually however I have concluded monks seem so important around here because it was really the MONKS who blew up Luclin.  We just haven't yet been given the evidence.  :p</P> <P>*shakes her fist at monks in general*</P>

[selch]

<blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:Those paying close attention to the recently posted EoF teaser video can catch a glimpse of an area in the Lesser Faydark that has historical significance to monks... and that may have relevance to their future as well.<hr></blockquote>Not sure about future as a monk actually. As present they don't seem much knowing martial arts, defensive and offensive better than a street thugs of Freeport. Even dark clouds shrouding future, can't be worse than today.<p>Message Edited by selch on <span class=date_text>08-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:17 PM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> selch wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> Those paying close attention to the recently posted EoF teaser video can catch a glimpse of an area in the Lesser Faydark that has historical significance to monks... and that may have relevance to their future as well.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Not sure about future as a monk actually. As present they don't seem much knowing martial arts, defensive and offensive better than a street thugs of Freeport.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>And yet those street thugs of Freeport don't even have any history, and that right there is what makes the monks Superior. They're actually important.

[Mirander_1]

<blockquote><hr>troodon wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div>IMO, there's a very disproportionate amount of Monk lore in this game.  Every single Monk clan that existed in the Age of Turmoil is in some way represented in the game while every other class guild from EQ1 has vanished with the exceptions of ones in Freeport and Qeynos, the Bouncers (no lore here), and the Guardians of the Vale (Halfling Deputies).  Rather absurd.<p>Message Edited by troodon on <span class="date_text">08-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:13 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I agree. I'd love to see some more lore on all the other classes come up in the future.Just throwing out some ideas here, but lets look at the Faydwer expansion for example. To start, we're going to see the city of Kelethin return, that seem like a great place to include lore on some of the nature-based classes like druids and rangers. Also, with the return of the gods there's a great chance to introduce lore on priests and crusaders

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>The reason why the monks have so much lore over everyone else is because they're unique.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyone can pick up a sword or a wand or a dagger, but the monks use martial arts and thier own bodies for combat.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>By shunning the way of the sword alone, this already makes you unique.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2nd: Only Humans could be monks untill Ruins of Kunark came out and opened the class to the Iksar. Even still, the class is restricted to two races.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3rd: Whether you were a Silent Fist Human, Ashen Order Human, or Swifttail Iksar, being a monk still had one ideological thing in mind: finding inner peace and transcendance through physical training of the body and mental focus of the mind.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All the other guilds for the other classes around Norrath each had thier own ideologies and practices. None of them stood out enough or were large enough to make a significant impact on Norrath over any of the others. They basicly didn't stand out from each other because of that.</DIV>

[SharpeRif]

<DIV>Plus by their very nature monks pass on knowledge of forms of combat and philosophical teaching because at their heart they seek to add to knowledge...</DIV> <DIV>thus they pass on lessons to those who come after in book/scroll form so that others may teach themselves not simply learn from others.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but most classes its what you learn on your own....or what someone trains you in for the most part....its rarely the synthesis common to monks...</DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Aye. Indeed. All part of thier philosophies to achieve Inner Peace. It can't be achieved unless you learn to share your knowledge with others.</DIV>

[troodon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>The reason why the monks have so much lore over everyone else is because they're unique.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyone can pick up a sword or a wand or a dagger, but the monks use martial arts and thier own bodies for combat. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I don't see how the lore surrounding humans who fight with "their own bodies" is automatically more interesting than the lore of the Nightkeep, or the Greenbloods, or the Wolves of the North, or the Dead, or any of the other NPC guilds that could be touched on.  Heck, even what we know about the fall of the Bloodsabers or the Knights of Marr is based largely on stuff from the forums rather than in-game content.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The fact that some Humans living in the desert can't decide to call themselves Monks or Disciples is not more interesting or more worthy of knowing than the history and the fate of all these other mindless sword/wand/dagger-wielding guilds of brutes.  I'll take lore about how a bunch of Trolls got together and started to dabble in swords <EM>and</EM> black magic, or what happened when the League of Antonican Bards suddenly found itself split in half (one center in Qeynos and the other in Freeport) over Ashen Order lore any day.</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> By shunning the way of the sword alone, this already makes you unique. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>My Shadow Knight prefers a mace, when does he get his own faction?</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> 2nd: Only Humans could be monks untill Ruins of Kunark came out and opened the class to the Iksar. Even still, the class is restricted to two races. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Shaman was restricted to 3 races before RoK, and it was the only class Humans could not play.  It was a very special class in this regard, yet it has yet to get it's own factions, quest series, titles, or adventure pack.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bard was also restricted to 3 races.  The League of Antonican Bards had its hands (and faction) all over Norrath, from Mistmoore to the Ring of Scale, and it was responsible for Antonica's mail system.  And yet your average EQ2 player has never even heard of them unless they've also played EQ1.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Warriors were (and still are in EQ1) able to be played by all but two races; it was the most widespread of all classes and had adherants of all sizes battling foes of every conceivable shape and size.  And yet there's no lore telling us how Halfling Deputies keeping Bixies and Goblins at bay was different from Iksar Legionnaires taking down Dragons; we're stuck with Ashen Monks and Ashen Disciples; we're stuck with Brother Qwinn, Brother Balatin, and some old guy with a Dryad problem named Zan Fi.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I ridicule this lore not because I don't like it or because it shouldn't be in game or something, I've got nothing against Monk lore, I do it to demonstrate the level of detail they're giving is with regards to Monks while wholly ignoring other classes and their histories.  You simply cannot argue that Monks are so unique and so distinctive that it warrants this stark of a contrast.</DIV><p>Message Edited by troodon on <span class=date_text>08-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:25 PM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> troodon wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Warriors were (and still are in EQ1) able to be played by all but two races; it was the most widespread of all classes and had adherants of all sizes battling foes of every conceivable shape and size.  And yet there's no lore telling us how Halfling Deputies keeping Bixies and Goblins at bay was different from Iksar Legionnaires taking down Dragons; we're stuck with Ashen Monks and Ashen Disciples; we're stuck with Brother Qwinn, Brother Balatin, and some old guy with a Dryad problem named Zan Fi.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I ridicule this lore not because I don't like it or because it shouldn't be in game or something, I've got nothing against Monk lore, I do it to demonstrate the level of detail they're giving is with regards to Monks while wholly ignoring other classes and their histories.  You simply cannot argue that Monks are so unique and so distinctive that it warrants this stark of a contrast.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by troodon on <SPAN class=date_text>08-04-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:25 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Thats just it. The reason why there's no lore behind the deputies fighting off goblins and bixies is because it's all a local problem to them. It doesn't affect the rest of Norrath.</P> <P>Where were Da Bashurs and the Rogues of the White Rose when Norrath was being invaded by an army of ogres?</P> <P> </P> <P>Most of these guilds were disbanded or forced to go into hiding for thier own various reasons. Most of them had to abandon thier cities because of the cataclysms and war. How does a guild operate if they don't have a base of operations to work from? How does a guild continue to exist when they are given no choice but to move to a city where many others of the same profession from other races are living there as well? How does a guild maintain it's individuality like that?</P> <P>I admit, I want to know what happened to the League of Antonican Bards though. They arn't exactly known for thier great combat prowess though, and having the continent split into many numerous continents themselves might put a damper on delivering mail until the waters calm down a little.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Cusashorn on <span class=date_text>08-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:09 PM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<P>wow [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]? double post.</P><p>Message Edited by Cusashorn on <span class=date_text>08-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:55 PM</span>

[Mirander_1]

<blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div></div><p>Where were the Greenbloods and the Rogues of the White Rose when Norrath was being invaded by an army of ogres?</p><hr>Heh, well, since you asked; the Greenbloods would, of course been part of the Rallosian army as they're an ogre guild and the White Rose Rogues likely would have been either with the barbarian refugees in Qeynos fighting the Avatar of Flames' forces, or in Halas fighting off the snow orcs</blockquote>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mirander wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Where were the Greenbloods and the Rogues of the White Rose when Norrath was being invaded by an army of ogres?</P><BR> <HR> <BR><BR><BR>Heh, well, since you asked; the Greenbloods would, of course been part of the Rallosian army as they're an ogre guild and the White Rose Rogues likely would have been either with the barbarian refugees in Qeynos fighting the Avatar of Flames' forces, or in Halas fighting off the snow orcs</BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>errrrrr whoopsies. I had Greenbloods confused with Da Bashurs. Darn trolls and thier green.<p>Message Edited by Cusashorn on <span class=date_text>08-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:08 PM</span>

[troodon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Thats just it. The reason why there's no lore behind the deputies fighting off goblins and bixies is because it's all a local problem to them. It doesn't affect the rest of Norrath.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The differences between the Monk clans is considerably more trivial than the difference between (continuing the example) the Deputies of Rivervale and the Legion of Cabilis.  Also, the imprisonment of Zan Fi and the rift between the Monks and the Disciples have nothing to do with the rest of Norrath.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR></P> <HR> Where were Da Bashurs and the Rogues of the White Rose when Norrath was being invaded by an army of ogres? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well if we are to read anything into the History of the Trolls book (I know, I know) some of Da Bashers may have been in the Rallosian army.  Even those who weren't had either gone to Faydwer to fight alongside the Teir'Dal in the War of the Fay or were actually fighting the Ogres in Innothule (those Feerrott books talk about the Ogres sent to Guk fighting Trolls also).  The Rogues of the White Rose were probably mercilessly slaughtering thousands Snow Orcs; a story touched on briefly in the Tome of Destiny but could be greatly expanded in game.  You see, all of these guilds have great potential stories if you're willing to actually think about them for 3 seconds instead of casually dismissing them as worthless.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P></P> <HR> Most of these guilds were disbanded or forced to go into hiding for thier own various reasons. Most of them had to abandon thier cities because of the cataclysms and war. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>There are two points to be made here.  Firstly, all of these guilds had huge traditions and histories prior to their extinction.  Secondly, the fact that they were allowed to disappear in the lore while Monk guilds have been placed everywhere reveals the very bias I'm talking about.  The Devs have written the lore in such a way to write off all of the Shaman, Druid, Warrior, Rogue, Shadow Knight, etc guilds while at the same time they've clinged to the Monk guilds and written them into their place in the world.  The Devs weren't presented with EQ2 and told "The Ashen Order is hiding out in the Pillars of Flame"; they put the Ashen Order there!  They could have done the same for any other guild, but they've thus far chosen to do it only for Monk guilds.  That's exactly what we're pointing out; the disproportionate amount of Monk lore.</P> <P>There's no rule saying we couldn't have Rogues of the White Rose or Wolves of the North camped up in Everfrost instead of those random Bitterwind Explorers or those weird Numbfoot things.  It's the way the Devs have decided to build the world; ignore other classes while telling Monks everything they could possibly want to know.  Heck, they could have just made the explorers all Barbarian, trying to rebuild Halas and reestablish the guilds of the city.  The members could then tell us stuff, give us quests, offer us titles; you know, all that usual Monk jazz.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> How does a guild operate if they don't have a base of operations to work from? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>They find a new base of operations, just like (**shock**) the Ashen Order did.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR></P> <P></P> <HR> I admit, I want to know what happened to the League of Antonican Bards though. They arn't exactly known for thier great combat prowess though <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yes, let us use combat prowess as our standard for what lore content should be placed in the game.  I suppose we can look forward to all future expansions and adventure packs being about the Greenbloods and Bouncers, since the Ogres have proven themselves capable of whooping every other race on Antonica.</P><p>Message Edited by troodon on <span class=date_text>08-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:34 PM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>I was talking about Qeynos and Freeport. All the other races had to relocate to Qeynos or Freeport, where thier own guilds were disbanded because it was unnecissary to keep individual rogue or paladin or enchanter guilds when it'd be easier to just merge with the existing one already in the city.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All those guilds' deep seeded history also only mainly revolved around their own race. Since most monks in the world are human and only human, they're much more spread out and much more active.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, the Ashen Order wasn't forced to relocate. They willingly chose to do so.</DIV>

[troodon]

<DIV>Ok, fine Cusashorn.  Everyone else can forget about their classes and their races.  We'll just sit back and enjoy reading all the lore the DEVs write for <EM>your </EM>class.  Happy?</DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> troodon wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ok, fine Cusashorn.  Everyone else can forget about their classes and their races.  We'll just sit back and enjoy reading all the lore the DEVs write for <EM>your </EM>class.  Happy?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>No. I'm not happy. I WANT to see the other classes get thier fare share of lore as well, but I've already stated more than enough reasons why there hasn't been any yet.

[troodon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <P><BR>No. I'm not happy. I WANT to see the other classes get thier fare share of lore as well</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ok, you want to see more lore of other classes but you don't think there's been a disproportionate amount of Monk lore.  This, of course, coming from a Monk.  I am sitting here on the forums reading a Monk write that they have not put in too much Monk lore.  I'm shocked.  Shocked!</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P></P> <HR> but I've already stated more than enough reasons why there hasn't been any yet.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yeah, your reasons why Monks are more deserving than others to get lore:</P> <P><STRIKE>1) Monks are mammals.</STRIKE></P> <P>2) Any idiot can carry a sword, wand, or dagger.</P> <P>3) Monks were heavily restricted by race.</P> <P>4) All Monks carried a similar ideology. </P> <P>5) Monks affect the rest of Norrath. </P> <P>6) Monks are more interesting than other classes.</P> <P>7) Monks participated in the 2nd Rallosian War. </P> <P><img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Monk clans still exist.</P> <P>9) Monks can beat up bards.</P> <P>IMO, those are without exception incredibly weak arguments, and I believe I previously addressed each one of them.  Just face facts Cusashorn, you're biased towards Monks so you're inclined to not believe the DEVs have implemented too much content surrounding them.  At the same time, you're using the very fact that the DEVs have acted in this manner as an argument for why they should. </P> <P>It's directly analogous to me writing a book and killing off a main character then telling people I killed him off because he died in the story.  It's a circular argument to say other guilds aren't implemented because they were killed off while Monks are implemented because they survived.  </P> <P>Even with the world of Norrath the way it is now, it wouldn't be hard to write in this sort of lore.  Take the Barbarian example I used in my above post.  It would remove pointless content (the Bitterwind Explorers), add richer and fulfilling content, while giving old Barbarian fans something to write home about (this is coming from someone who has never played a Barbarian in his life, so this isn't a biased request :smileywink: ).</P><p>Message Edited by troodon on <span class=date_text>08-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:46 PM</span>

[Kendricke]

<blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>troodon wrote:<BR><DIV>Ok, fine Cusashorn.  Everyone else can forget about their classes and their races.  We'll just sit back and enjoy reading all the lore the DEVs write for <EM>your </EM>class.  Happy?</DIV><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>No. I'm not happy. I WANT to see the other classes get thier fare share of lore as well, but I've already stated more than enough reasons why there hasn't been any yet.<hr></blockquote>Actually, what you've really stated are your personal beliefs on what could potentially be possible reasons. However, once again, you've posted your opinions as if they were rock solid facts. It's fine to post opinions as such, but just because you believe the reason monks get an amount of lore is due to their "uniqueness" doesn't make it so.More than likely it's because it just happened to work out that way as the story unfolded. It doesn't mean that other factions have no stories. It certainly doesn't mean that other factions were somehow inferior to monks since monk lore came first. It just means that only so many stories can be told at a time, and up to this point there have just been more monk stories and less stories about other classes.NOTE: To be technical, stories usually build up to more important topics and subjects. One could definately make the argument that since monks are out of the way, the developers are ready to move on to more important class stories now. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> troodon wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <P><BR>No. I'm not happy. I WANT to see the other classes get thier fare share of lore as well</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ok, you want to see more lore of other classes but you don't think there's been a disproportionate amount of Monk lore.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Ok Now you're putting words in my mouth. Never once. NEVER ONCE did I say that there was too much lore around the monks.

[troodon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> troodon wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ok, you want to see more lore of other classes but <U><STRONG>you don't think</STRONG></U> there's been a disproportionate amount of Monk lore.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Ok Now you're putting words in my mouth. Never once. NEVER ONCE did I say that there was too much lore around the monks.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I highlighted the part of the sentence that you missed.<p>Message Edited by troodon on <span class=date_text>08-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:43 PM</span>

[Mirander_1]

Can't we all just get along? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I do think Cusa has a point that the reason we haven't seen a lot of lore for other classes is that a lot of the other guilds have gone to ground or even disbanded all together. However, I don't think it's going to stay that way.Like I mentioned earlier, I really think that priests are soon going to get some lovin' in the lore department. The return of the gods means that all the old churches are going to start reorganizing; either to worship their returned god, or to hasten their god's return to Norrath.Of course, there are also groups like the Order of Marr which exist, but we haven't heard much of yet and are starting to come out of the shadowsAs a wizard player, I'm really excited for Odus to come out in an expansion. Because if there's a place to get some good lore on mages, it's definately Odus

[runekee]

I have to agree that im kind of sick of Monk lore. It's everywhere and considering the game has 24 classes and not 1 it's completely disproportionate. So monks are special because they don't use swords it's simply not a good enough reason to ignore other classes lore. Bards are unique cause they can sing songs which harm and bolster. Can any other class do that? No. The point is every class could have some interesting lore attached to it if the Dev's simply bothered with other classes and moved away from their monk lore fascination. I hope the monk lore will be minimal in EOF as im simply bored with it by now. I would love to hear about antonican Bards though! I mean it was lore which everyone got involved with not simply Bards in EQ1. Everyone at least at some point must have ran a mail delivery.<p>Message Edited by runekeepa on <span class=date_text>08-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:38 AM</span>

[troodon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mirander wrote:<BR><BR>I do think Cusa has a point that the reason we haven't seen a lot of lore for other classes is that a lot of the other guilds have gone to ground or even disbanded all together. However, I don't think it's going to stay that way. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I really hope it doesn't stay this way.  I mean, there's so much potential not just in EoF but in all the possible ways this game can expand.  With EoF we can get into the Faydwer guys; the Gem Cutters, the Emerald Warriors, the Machanimagica guys... all the Faydwer class guilds.  Did the evil Gnomes have to do with the Clockwork revolution or was it just madcap Gnomish craziness?  Are Wood Elves now practicing higher magics with the Koada'Dal Keepers of the Art?  How about Dwarves and the Eldritch Collective? :smileyhappy:</P> <P>Hopefully someday we'll finally break into the 2nd and 3rd gates of Neriak, there we can find out what's happened to the Queen and the Dead and the Ebon Mask and all the others living in isolation for so long.  With Odus we find the Quellithulians and see how the different guilds interacted when the cities came together, plus we see how Prexus worshippers fit into the whole mix.  Then with Kunark we get even more possibilities.  Not only do we have all the Iksar guilds (the Brood, the Legion, the Crusaders, etc.) but they could have Rallosian hold outs from the war, or Trollish refugees from the war on Antonica, or good races maintaining a foothold in what was once the outpost of Firiona Vie.  </P> <P>Who knows?  Maybe they can have a Teir'Dal portion of Faydwer that remains in their hands following the War of the Fay or Barbarian refugees can be struggling for existance on the Barren Coast of Odus.  I mean, there are so many possible ways of introducing this stuff that are no less plausible than the Ashen Order leaving Freeport and building some huge complex in the middle of a canyon.  All they need to do is say "Ok, we'll do it" rather than ignoring it and writing more about how this Monk was really wirey and that Monk was really clever and this Monk was trained by these Monks and was very mysterious but this Monk was very funny and wise....</P><p>Message Edited by troodon on <span class=date_text>08-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:48 AM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Think about it this way, Troodon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All the lore surrounding the monks has been pretty much all covered with the exception of the Swifttail Monks from Kunark and the camp of Master Wu in Lesser Feydark. In other words, there isn't terribly much left anyway.</DIV>

[Kendricke]

<blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<DIV>Think about it this way, Troodon.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>All the lore surrounding the monks has been pretty much all covered with the exception of the Swifttail Monks from Kunark and the camp of Master Wu in Lesser Feydark. In other words, there isn't terribly much left anyway.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Sure there is. There's a great deal of lore left...unless we assume that everything we've heard is all there is to hear. I would suspect that there are pages and pages of story ideas that haven't even made it from internal development documentation (or some developer's mind) to the game's world at all, yet.That is not to say that there hasn't been a great deal of lore presented, but only to say that there's certainly more to tell in areas we're likely not even thinking of right now.That said, there's a great deal of stories left to tell regarding many different class guilds.

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">We get lore because we get shafted on avoidance and FD percentages. <span>:smileywink:</span> </font></font></font><div></div>

[Themaginator]

<div><blockquote><hr>troodon wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div>Yeah, your reasons why Monks are more deserving than others to get lore: <p><strike>1) Monks are mammals.</strike></p> <p>2) Any idiot can carry a sword, wand, or dagger.</p> <p>3) Monks were heavily restricted by race.</p> <p>4) All Monks carried a similar ideology. </p> <p>5) Monks affect the rest of Norrath. </p> <p>6) Monks are more interesting than other classes.</p> <p>7) Monks participated in the 2nd Rallosian War. </p> <p><img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Monk clans still exist.</p> <p>9) Monks can beat up bards.</p><p><font color="#ff0000">10) The purpose of monks is to flip out and kill people and they fight <b>ALL</b> the time</font></p><hr></blockquote><font color="#ffffff">There =) you forgot one bwahahahaha</font></div>

[Mirander_1]

We're going to see at least some of the old Kelethin guilds, in some form. Kelethin is going to be a new starting city, so it's going to need it's own equivilent to the Concordium, Freeport Militia, Dismal Rage, ect. to get writs from.EDIT: This actually touches on another important point. Why is there so little lore on the city factions? Besides that post Vhalen made on the Dismal Rage, we have heard almost nothing about them, and none that I've found in game<p>Message Edited by Mirander on <span class=date_text>08-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:14 PM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mirander wrote:<BR>We're going to see at least some of the old Kelethin guilds, in some form. Kelethin is going to be a new starting city, so it's going to need it's own equivilent to the Concordium, Freeport Militia, Dismal Rage, ect. to get writs from.<BR><BR>EDIT: This actually touches on another important point. Why is there so little lore on the city factions? Besides that post Vhalen made on the Dismal Rage, we have heard almost nothing about them, and none that I've found in game <P>Message Edited by Mirander on <SPAN class=date_text>08-05-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:14 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Now THAT is a good question.

[Tauch]

<blockquote><hr>troodon wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div>IMO, there's a very disproportionate amount of Monk lore in this game. <hr></blockquote> It's because monks are extremely underrepresented on the box-art. Every time an artist goes to paint a canvas for the box-art, monks are out of the picture. Whether we're feigning death behind some rocks or off pulling a big baddie the artist never ceases his painting. It sucks, but we have some pretty good stories to make up for it. Now, those warrior stories...they're hardly intelligible. The literacy rate for the plate-bound tower-shield-bearing brutes isn't all that great. <span>:smileysad:</span> (In all seriousness, I agree. When I heard about DoF and the ashen order I was giddy, but now it's just getting to the point where I'm going "eh? what's next, some lore about <i>my</i> monk?") <div></div>

[ke'la]

<P>Why is there more Monk lore then the other classes lore?</P> <P>simple monk lore is NOT heavily tied to the Gods while MOST(not all but most) of the other guild lore is tied to the gods and as the gods have not been active, there was not alot for them to do or even to hold them together.</P> <P>BTW READ the current EoF lore, and you will see two guilds are Definitly going to be reaserting themselfs soon one of wich is The Order of Marr.</P> <P><A href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/news_ff.vm?FeatureName=fearandvalor&section=development" target=_blank>http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/news_ff.vm?FeatureName=fearandvalor&section=development</A></P> <P>as to this:</P> <P></P> <HR> <P>The differences between the Monk clans is considerably more trivial than the difference between (continuing the example) the Deputies of Rivervale and the Legion of Cabilis.  Also, the imprisonment of Zan Fi and the rift between the Monks and the Disciples have nothing to do with the rest of Norrath.</P> <P></P> <HR> <P>Um the Deputies of Rivervale have more or less LOST as just looking at RV will tell you, however the Devs have stated that a revamp of RV is comming so I bet the Deputies will be playing a part in that. As for Zan Fi's Imprisonment correct me if I am wrong but isn't he the guy that is paving the way for the GODS RETURN and if thats the case then I think that is a HUGE impact.</P>

[troodon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ke'la wrote:<BR> <P>Um the Deputies of Rivervale have more or less LOST as just looking at RV will tell you, however the Devs have stated that a revamp of RV is comming so I bet the Deputies will be playing a part in that.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yes, I cited the Deputies as one of the few examples of guilds in the game.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR></P> <HR> As for Zan Fi's Imprisonment correct me if I am wrong but isn't he the guy that is paving the way for the GODS RETURN and if thats the case then I think that is a HUGE impact.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>That's Zeb, not Zan Fi.</P>

[IrishWonder]

<DIV>There's a perfectly good reason as to why there is so much Monk lore in the game right now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Class Balancing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's right... all classes have to have strong points to make them desirable and to offset their weak points, and NO class can be strong in every point, or they outweigh other classes. For example:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Conjuror DPS - excellent....... Conjuror solo ability - excellent.......  Conjuror lore - sucky</DIV> <DIV>-Illusionist crowd control - excellent.......Illusionist group buffing - excellent........ Illusionist lore - sucky</DIV> <DIV>-Berserker DPS - excellent..... Berserker solo ability - excellent......Berserker lore - sucky</DIV> <DIV>-Monk DPS - horrible............... Monk solo ability - horrible...............Monk crowd control - horrible....... Monk buffs - horrible........ Monk lore - excellent</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/duck :smileyhappy:</DIV>

[Tarkin-Wretch]

<DIV>i dont know where the overwhelming fascination for monks came from.  i played eqlive and i never thought monks were all that important.  as a matter of fact, i wouldnt have missed them if they were removed.  it would not have changed my enjoyment of the game at all.  same could said for eq2 if it wasnt all about monks.  just when i thought we might finally see that last of this [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] class lore, its been mentioned more is to come in EoF.  who gives a rats [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] besides monks?  how about a little love to any other class.  i dont really even care at this point what class gets some lore loving, just as long as it isnt the monks.  give it a rest.  they were good at FD pulling.  now its not neccessary, we can do away with them.   thanks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>monk guilds exist because devs wrote them to.  every other class guild doesnt exist because devs wrote them not to.  </DIV>