Questions about Timelines and Zebuxoruk

[dragontamer619]

<DIV>Everquest 2 is set pre Planes of Power correct?  Or is it after the planes of power where mortals tried to free Zebuxoruk but Druzzil Ro intervened and reset the timeline, thus creating the parallel dimension of Everquest 2?  I think is it option 2.  In PoP we free Zeb and then go back to the start of it all before it all happened right?  (I started playing EQ1 after Lost Dungeons of Norrath came out so I'm reading all this lore from <A href="http://lorenorrath.free.fr/" target=_blank>http://lorenorrath.free.fr/</A>.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zeb's mind has been freed and he remebers everything, my other question is what is everything?  Is his memory only allowing him to remember the knowledge he gained about the Gods and that he wanted to share it with the mortals of Norrath?  Or is he remembering everything from the Planes of Power,the Gods wanting to put him in a stasis, the mortals freeing him, and then the intervention of Druzzil Ro which created both worlds.  In the Tome:  <B>The Words of Zebuxoruk </B>he states he can see both dimensions and he does not know which one he is in.  But he writes the events so they can be remembered.  Can he remember that?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now that Zebuxoruk's mind is free would it be logical to say that he knows the apparent dangers of sharing his knowledge with the mortals of Norrath?  And because of that will he not share his knowledge, which would make him a God.  The raid mob that you kill to unlock Zeb's mind, that was the binding created by the demi gods by the request of the Gods of the Elemental Planes?  The water Gods spoke as one and said to step up and give part of yourselves to the bind.  So where did the demi-gods go?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>By reading the Planes of Power progression quests (<A href="http://lorenorrath.free.fr/read.php?link=pop_progression" target=_blank>http://lorenorrath.free.fr/read.php?link=pop_progression</A>) you can see where the Gods start to withdraw from the world of Norrath.  If they start to withdraw there then when does Council of the Gods (Tome of Destiny: Chapter 1) take place?  If Druzzil Ro resets time prior to us freeing Zebuxoruk then the Gods suceed locking Zeb's mind away, right?  We freed Zeb's mind in EQ2 by killing the raid mob (I forget its name) in The Fallen Dynasty, so shouldn't that weaken the God's more and are they coming back to make sure that Zeb doesn't share his knowledge with the mortals of Norrath?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am sorry if this post feels like it is all over the place.  My mind goes all over the place so I just type it like I think it.  Nevertheless these are questions I have been wondering while I'm sitting here at work.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>It's explicitely explained many times in the game that it occurs after PoP.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Words of Zeb itself in particular.</DIV>

[RaphaNissi]

<div></div>I'm guessing we will learn a bit more of what Zeb knows.  Right now, we don't know much.  If I recall correctly, he has become a bit wiser with the knowledge he does possess.  I would wager that he has remembered <u>everything</u>.  What we are going to know is yet to be revealed to us.<div></div><p>Message Edited by RaphaNissi on <span class=date_text>07-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:20 PM</span>

[dragontamer619]

<DIV>Cusa, could you explain yourself a little bit more please?  EverQuest 2 takes place after PoP then the Council of the Gods had to happen right after they threw Zeb into his stasis?  Would you agree?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, New Tanaan was the Plane of Knowledge in EverQuest 1, or the City of Zebuxoruk.  Tanaan is the Foresaken City which is on the Isle of Mara.  The people of Tanaan caused their own demise by challenging the guardian of Zeb's secrets.  Were these people the adventurers of EverQuest?  Or did the downfall of the Plane of Knowledge happen after Zeb was freed by the mortals and reprisoned by the Gods because of the time shift created by Matron of the Art?  How did the Plane of Knowledge cease to exist if the previous question is wrong?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe I am nuking this.  I've got a lot of time to kill on watch here and I would like to get this cleared up because it's been heavy on my mind for the past 2 hours.  :smileywink:</DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Oh boy. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to go into the details behind how a Space-Time Paradox applies to EQ2's timeline surrounding Zeb and the Plane of Time because it's only going to give you a headache trying to understand it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can't explain it without explaining it, so I'm not going to explain it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the forsaken city of Tanaan, since it wasn't part of EQlive, it's easy to say that New Tanaan, AKA the Plane of Knowledge, was created during or before Eqlive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The downfall of the Plane of Knowledge? I haven't heard of anything to indicate that it no longer exists, or that it was destroyed or anything like that... at least nothing that I can remember off the top of my head right now, but the Planes were sealed off after the time split caused by Druzzil Ro and after the Council of the Gods that took place after that.</DIV>

[dragontamer619]

<DIV>Wasn't the Plane of Knowledge (New Tanaan) on Norrath?  If I remember correctly it was near Odus right?  You have to travel across the Buried Sea to get to the Isle of Mara which is the same sea that houses the Gunthak Pirates.  So if New Tanaan was there, 500 years later after the Rending and Shattering the island could of sunken some causing New Tanaan to fall apart.  Not only that, it the Fallen Dynasty lore it says the people brought about their own demise by challenging the guardian of Zebuxoruk and seeking the knowledge he contained.  I guess that there could explain what happened to the Plane of Knowledge.  If that is the case, then that is also how the other Planes are sealed off. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>About the whole space time paradox, certain parts do not make sense.  I do not expect it to follow science to a "T", if the devs could do that then I'd think they'd be the next Einstein instead of making video games.  LOL.  Anyway, looking at the lore of from the POP Planar progression quests and the Words of Zeboxurok, The Planes of Power has to repeat itself.  Even 500 years later.  The only way around it is if Zeb comes to realize his potential danger to the Gods, and does not share his knowledge like he planned on.  I do not think the Gods planned on Zeb's mind to ever become free, just like the did not think the mortals of Norrath would storm their planes.  With that in mind, are the Gods returning because they feel it is time to come back, or are they coming back because of Zebuxoruk?</DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>No. New Tanaan existed in the PLANE of Knowledge. It wasn't a location found on the Plane of Norrath. Old Tanaan is located on Norrath.</DIV>

[dragontamer619]

<DIV>Oh yeah that's right.  Thanks for that clarification.  So what is the difference in the Tanaans?  I noticed that the Forsaken City does have a lot of characteristics of the Plane of Knowledge.  That is why I came to the conclusion about it being New Tanaan.  :smileysad:  My bad.</DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>well I'd say they developed New Tanaan as a place to research knowledge all over again. They probably knew that Tanaan ended up destroying itself, so they built a new city as a tribute to the old, with the concept of studying knowledge in mind, but in an environment where no violent actions can take place.</DIV>

[dragontamer619]

<DIV>So was it by chance that Zebuxoruk washed ashore on the Island of Mara which houses Tanaan / The Forsaken City?  What was the village called in the Plane of Tranquility?  I am curious to know is all.  If Tanaan did not ever make it to EQlive, then why is it important to EverQuest 2?  Why focus around a city that did not really exist?  Unless it has some revelance to New Tanaan and/or Zebuxoruk.  It is not making sense.  The Lore in The Fallen Dynasty says the people of Tanaan killed themselves by challenging the guardian of Zebuxoruk.  But New Tanaan was built in Zeb's name, so how can the people Tanaan fight the guardian of Zeb's mind way before Zeb's mind was locked by the Gods?  If Druzzil Ro reset time to the beginning of the libertation of Zebuxoruk so it never happened, I do not see how Tanaan can fit into the picture.  Unless Tanaan in EverQuest 2 is New Tanaan from EverQuest Live.  Does that make sense?  Lastly, if Druzzil Ro reset time and Zeb was put into his stasis, where was he held?  Was he held on the Planes and some how magically fell through a hole, landing in the ocean and then washing up on the Isle of Mara which is where Tanaan is at?  Or was he held on Norrath the whole time?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[DreamerClou]

<P>I'm not sure if this will help or confuse you more <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />    It comes from the "Why did the gods leave?"   thread.</P> <P> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jindrack wrote:<BR> <DIV>The Plane of Time occurred in EQ2's time line.  As Zebuxoruk wrote, when the Matron of the Art rolled back time the timeline split.  One was rolled back as intended, the other went on, as time does, as if her change hadn't occurred.  No one, not even a Goddess, can truely manipulate the flow of time, especially by trying to control it at its very source.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><p>Message Edited by DreamerCloud9 on <span class=date_text>07-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:10 AM</span>

[Mirander_1]

<div></div>About old Tanaan.  It may not have been a zone you could travel to in EQlive, but I believe it was mentioned in the lore.  See if you can find one of those diety summaries and read what it says about Zeb.  It makes mention of a hidden city on Norrath where he's, not exactly worshiped, but more repected, this is likely talking about Tanaan<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>The Plane of Tranquility was the Plane of Tranquility. No villages or anything inside it. As for why Zeb just washed ashore in Mara... who knows?</DIV>

[dragontamer619]

<DIV>Some of this stuff isn't making sense whatsoever.  The events in the Plane of Time happened in both EQLive and EQ2.  They had to happen in both dimensions.  Which parallel dimension are we in?  Are we in the one that was allowed to continue or are we in the one that curled upon itself?  The Tome: <B>The Words of Zebuxoruk </B>does not say which dimension we are in.  Even Zeboxoruk doesn't know, for all he knows he's in both dimensions.  There is proof of that too, in the Lost Dungeons of Norrath Lore, Calliav Giniuar (the madman found by Morden Rasp and the Wayfarer Brothers in Lost Dungeons of Norrath) makes contact with Zeboxoruk - who is prisoned in the Plane of Time - and he shows Calliav visions of the approaching army of Mata Muram.  Plus there is the whole Grozmok Stone saga but that's irrevelant for now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In EverQuest 2, Zeb washes ashore and we unlock his mind and he is considered a God.  He has mentioned the prophets of other gods as well as their return.  In the EQLive Timeline the Gods start to leave in the Planes of Power, they finally leave Norrath in the Gates of Discord but come back in the Prophecy of Ro.  So in the EverQuest 2 Timeline do they leave during the Planes of Power or the Gates of Discord?  One of the two expansions had to happen in the EverQuest 2 Timeline.  If the Gates of Discord happened then The Lost Dungeons of Norrath had to happen as well.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm getting all kinds of confused now.  I think the Gods left during the Planes of Power, right after Druzzil Ro stopped the mortals from helping Zebuxoruk.  Zeb was prisoned in the Plane of Time and his mind was locked by the Gods as they retreated.  Zebuxoruk has to exist in both dimensions.  It just is not adding up how he managed to leave the Plane of Time and wash up on the Isle of Mara.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-----</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, about Tanaan, the only thing I can find about and Tanaan and Zebuxoruk is that New Tanaan was created in Zeb's name.</DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Yeah there's just way to much that needs to be explained before we understand how things work.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zeb is just that big a mystery. We just gotta see how things unfold.</DIV>

[Ordate]

<DIV>Ok let me see if I can sum some thing up to help explain some things.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In EQ1 raiders enter the plane of time.  They are about to release Zeb and Druz steps up and causes a time warp.  At this point the timeline splits.  Zeb exsists in both timelines as well as the gods etc.  In EQ1s timeline Zeb is still imprissoned.  In EQ2s timeline Zeb is freed (though I thought he was imprissoned in both time lines until this recent adventure pack)  As you found out in LDoN Zeb is still improssoned which is the pointer as to which time line is to which game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The gods in both time lines walked away from mortals.  It is merely coincidence that it happened in both time lines.  The fact that it occurs does not make the lore of one timeline neccesary in the other.  Therefore GoD and PoR did not have to happen in EQ2s timeline (nor LDoN).  We are now entirely different "time lines" aka story arcs.  Look at the story this way.  While everything was still one timeline mortals [Removed for Content] off the gods.  While the gods are still [Removed for Content] at the mortals the time line splits.  Sometime after this timeline splits because in both timelines the gods are still [Removed for Content] off at the mortals they leave us.  The exact reasoning of why and when they leave us and for how long varies now as the two time lines are seperate.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As you noted in EQ1 the gods departed during GoD.  (Im not up on the lore enough to confirm that, but Ill roll with what you say)  In EQ2s timeline the gods departed sometime after the time warp with Zeb.  Exactly how much time passed is hard to say.  We know the gods came together to discuss what to do about the mortals because we were invading their realms.  We know 7 days later that passage through the spires was removed from us.  But we don't know exactly when that all took place.  As for Zeb exsisting in both dimensions, he does.  Just as the gods, Lucan, and any other personality that was around both then and now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Honestly whenever you introduce a time paradox into a storyline things get very confusing very quickly.  (Why do I feel like Im trying to explain some of Schrodinger's Theories?)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tanaan I don't think has any refrence in EQlive lore.  Or if there is its questionable at best.  You have to remember that some things that are in EQ2 have exsisted prior to the timeline of EQ1 but was never gone into in EQLives lore.  This is just how History (lore) is.  Because the city was not visitable in EQ1 nor was it never really mentioned does not mean it wasn't there in the lore perspective.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hope this helps.  Considering the subject matter, Im not sure if it will heh.</DIV>

[Dregor]

<div><blockquote><hr>Ordate wrote:<div>Tanaan I don't think has any refrence in EQlive lore.  Or if there is its questionable at best.  You have to remember that some things that are in EQ2 have exsisted prior to the timeline of EQ1 but was never gone into in EQLives lore.  This is just how History (lore) is.  Because the city was not visitable in EQ1 nor was it never really mentioned does not mean it wasn't there in the lore perspective.</div> <hr></blockquote>Old Tanaan very much had reference in the EQ1 lore.  It was described as a hidden city that payed homage to the un-God's, Zebuxorux's, teachings.  They didn't worship him in the standard sense because that would go against what he stood for, but they believed in what he did.  The city was lost (destroyed?), I can't remember if or how it was explained, it has been awhile.  And for some reason I want to say that Velious is tied into this somehow as if it was reportedly hidden in the depths of Velious, but that could be a complete derailment of my thoughts there <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I'll try to find out more about it.</div>

[Ordate]

Please do.  It sounds like this would be an earlier peice of lore which most of those I knew about.  This one more or less smacked me from left field <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Dregor]

<div></div>Taken from <a target="_blank" href="http://eq.ogaming.com/data/2825%7ESub-Dieties.php">http://eq.ogaming.com/data/2825~Sub-Dieties.php</a>.  While it's not an official site, the information was taken directly from the old EQLive page, pictures included.  I couldn't find the pantheon list on the current EQLive site.<span><div align="top"><font color="gold" size="3"><b>Zebuxoruk · The Forsaken </b></font></div>Zebuxoruk is neither evil nor good. Legends place him as evil and other legends untold place him on the side of good. To the other deities, they ALL dislike him or simply couldn't care less. Zebuxoruk was at some time in the form of mortal man and trod upon the surface of Norrath after escaping the Plane of Justice or the Void. Mortality was either something forced upon him or something he may have wished for. Zebuxoruk is known as the Forsaken One, The Disgraced and other such names among the pantheon of deities and heroes of the Outer Planes of Influence. There is said to be a hidden city on Norrath that honor, not worship, the 'Ungod', Zebuxoruk. Something not even he truly cares for. This city has knowledge of his history both true and false and the community is mostly comprised of fallen priests, shadowknight, paladins, any who have been forsaken by thier deities and either seek a pathway back or seek true neutrality among the planes and and understanding that the deities are more mortal than they think.</span><span>It doesn't specifically name the city as Tanaan, but it is.  I'll keep plumbing for anymore info.  And good lord I hate this message editor here!</span><div></div>

[dragontamer619]

<div></div>If you go to <a target="_blank" href="http://lorenorrath.free.fr/read.php?link=gods_zebuxoruk">http://lorenorrath.free.fr/read.php?link=gods_zebuxoruk</a> it shows Zebuxoruk's picture as well as the city that is in his name.  Tanaan, but the picture there is of New Tanaan / The Plane of Knowledge.  Also I found a trivia website that says the Plane of Knowledge is broken into three different parts.<font color="#ff33cc"><img src="http://www.funtrivia.com/img/i/vs_red.gif" height="6" width="11"></font><font color="#ff33cc"><b>What is the real name for the Plane of Knowledge?</b></font>"Everquest" Lore<font color="green">New Tanaan</font>. Tanaan, Kartis, and Selia are the three districts of the Plane of Knowledge. Kartis is the Dark district, Tanaan the Neutral district, and the Light District is Selia.I do not ever remember there being districts of the Plane of Knowledge.  Every NPC I spoke to in there says that it is all New Tanaan. <div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dragontamer619 wrote:<BR> If you go to <A href="http://lorenorrath.free.fr/read.php?link=gods_zebuxoruk" target=_blank>http://lorenorrath.free.fr/read.php?link=gods_zebuxoruk</A> it shows Zebuxoruk's picture as well as the city that is in his name.  Tanaan, but the picture there is of New Tanaan / The Plane of Knowledge.  Also I found a trivia website that says the Plane of Knowledge is broken into three different parts.<BR><BR><FONT color=#ff33cc><IMG height=6 src="http://www.funtrivia.com/img/i/vs_red.gif" width=11></FONT><FONT color=#ff33cc><B>What is the real name for the Plane of Knowledge?</B></FONT>"Everquest" Lore<BR><BR><FONT color=green>New Tanaan</FONT>. Tanaan, Kartis, and Selia are the three districts of the Plane of Knowledge. Kartis is the Dark district, Tanaan the Neutral district, and the Light District is Selia.<BR><BR>I do not ever remember there being districts of the Plane of Knowledge.  Every NPC I spoke to in there says that it is all New Tanaan. <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Keep in mind that from a lore perspective, the light, neutral, and dark districts of the Plane of Knowledge would each be like thier own seperate cities the size of Freeport and Qeynos and stuff.</P> <P><BR></P>

[Thax]

<DIV>Just thought I'd throw in that just because New Tanaan was founded, doesn't mean that Tanaan was destroyed first.  For example, when New Amsterdam was founded (New York), Amsterdam was still very much there.</DIV>

[dragontamer619]

I did not ever say Tanaan was destroyed....The Lore of the Forsaken City in The Fallen Dynasty said it was destroyed.  The people of Tanaan tried to challenge the Guardian of Zebuxoruk's secrets and were greedy for knowledge.  They are the ones that brought the devestation to their city.  What I'm not getting in either timeline, was if Zeb was prisoned in the Plane of Time, how did he get out and mysteriously wash ashore to the Isle of Mara, which coincidently is the same island that has Tanaan on it.  As I write this, I wonder if Zeb retained the knowledge of the Gods after Druzzil Ro reset time.  She reset time to before the mortals of Norrath and Zebuxoruk set foot into the planes, so could it be possible that stopped Zeb and Gods still locked his mind.  And over the years the people of Tanaan kept trying to free Zeb's mind but couldn't.  And The Whistling Fist Clan took Zeb in not knowing that he was in fact who he is?  (Well that is what they did) But did the people of Village Shin know that the Forsaken City / Tanaan was built to honor Zeb?  Zeb was a monk right?  What clan did he belong to?  I cannot remember.<div></div>

[RaphaNissi]

<div><blockquote><hr>dragontamer619 wrote: What I'm not getting in either timeline, was if Zeb was prisoned in the Plane of Time, how did he get out and mysteriously wash ashore to the Isle of Mara, which coincidently is the same island that has Tanaan on it.  <div></div><hr></blockquote>The gods had him imprisioned, right?  So what was to keep him there when the gods left?  If I understand correctly, Quarm was pretty much his guardian/warden.  Quarm is made up of powers from the elemental gods.  When they left with their power, wouldn't that mean Quarm was no more or greatly weakened?  Wouldn't he therefore be able to escape?</div>

[Dregor]

I'm *pretty* sure Old Tanaan was destroyed, but I'll try to find a source for that.<div></div>