I have two questions..

[Abyssi]

I have been looking at some maps of Norrath from EQ1, and Norrath from EQ2 and I have a few questions. #1 would be, What is Zek? From a geological standpoint, it looks like Zek is right where the Unkept Woods were. Since there is no more Desert of Ro, did the orcs retreat to the Unkept Woods and rebuild the Deathfist Citadel there?Question 2 is, Did Blackburrow move? In the old Norrath, Blackburrow was north of Qeynos, now its pretty far South.Keep in mind, I never played EQ1, and all of this is based on these maps: http://www.graffe.com/graffe1.0/maps/map_of_norrath.jpg http://eq2vault.ign.com/images/map/Norrath.jpgI also edited the second map, to show where some of the destroyed places are. (in the boxes)http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/5311/norrathmapedited25sw.png<div></div>

[Mordock of the Highwynd]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Abyssion wrote:<BR>I have been looking at some maps of Norrath from EQ1, and Norrath from EQ2 and I have a few questions. <BR><BR>#1 would be, What is Zek? From a geological standpoint, it looks like Zek is right where the Unkept Woods were. Since there is no more Desert of Ro, did the orcs retreat to the Unkept Woods and rebuild the Deathfist Citadel there?<BR><BR>Question 2 is, Did Blackburrow move? In the old Norrath, Blackburrow was north of Qeynos, now its pretty far South.<BR><BR>Keep in mind, I never played EQ1, and all of this is based on these maps: <BR><BR>http://www.graffe.com/graffe1.0/maps/map_of_norrath.jpg <BR><BR>http://eq2vault.ign.com/images/map/Norrath.jpg<BR><BR>I also edited the second map, to show where some of the destroyed places are. (in the boxes)<BR><BR>http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/5311/norrathmapedited25sw.png<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>          From the questions you ask and that you have never played EQlive, I can only assume that you play EQOA, so with that said:</P> <P>1.  Zek is where Jaggedpine Forest once was.  don't know if DFC was ever in EQlive, but in EQOA, it was in The Deserts of Ro.  Anyways, yeah they basically rebuilt it in Zek.</P> <P>2.  It was explained by Moorgard that the gnolls basically rebuilt Blackburrow, similar to the old one, complete with the collapsed Everfrost tunnel and everything.</P>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<DIV>Zek is believed to encompass, (primarily), the Jaggedpine Forest, and, (possibly), parts of Surefall Glade.  Nedaria's Landing is presumed submerged (I guess).  Since the Unkempt Woods never made it into EQ Live (at least as far as I remember) then it too has sunk beneath the waves.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Blackburrow is said to have been rebuilt by the Gnolls, though one still finds the collapsed tunnel to Everfrost Peaks within it .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The cause of all this geographical change is the Rending.  A period of massive geological upheavals;  floods, earthquakes, real Armegeddon-type stuff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is the accepted lore exlanation for these seemingly contradictory juxta-positions.  Though I can't help but wonder if it were not also due to a lack of attention to EQ Live Maps by the designers when EQ2 was on the drawing boards.</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Mary the Prophetess on <span class=date_text>07-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:00 PM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mary the Prophetess wrote:<BR> <DIV>Zek is believed to encompass, (primarily), the Jaggedpine Forest, and, (possibly), parts of Surefall Glade.  Nedaria's Landing is presumed submerged (I guess).  Since the Unkempt Woods never made it into EQ Live (at least as far as I remember) then it too has sunk beneath the waves.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Blackburrow is said to have been rebuilt by the Gnolls, though one still finds the collapsed tunnel to Everfrost Peaks within it .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yep. Jaggedpine Forest and They rebuilt it after the original was destroyed in the Rending. The gnolls are very traditional so they even rebuilt the collapsed everfrost tunnel.

[DreamerClou]

<DIV>Hmm, I never played EQOA but DeathFist Citadel was located in the Deserts of Ro in that game?  I played EQ1, but there wasn't a Deathfist Citadel in the 3 desert zones.  I wondered what happened to it between the two time periods, especially since it makes an appreance in EQ2.</DIV>

[Cusashorn]

Deathfist Citadel didn't exist in EQlive.

[Jaale]

<P>Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't Vhalen made reference to a part of Jagged pine (or at least some of the area around it) might be showing up in an adventure pack that can only be accessed via either a druid ring or a powerful spell (he also hinted that part of highkeep may have survived and part of the mountain range as well.)</P> <P>If I find the post then I'll link it but not got a lot of time right now so maybe later. (it's either in expansions forum or the lore board.)</P> <P> </P> <P>EDIT: Found it you can read it here: <A target=_blank href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=10725#M10725">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=10725#M10725</A></P> <P>for a quick break down this is the part about the Jagged pine, looks like it might be the next Adventure pack.</P> <P></P> <HR> <P>1.      Within the great Tranquil Sea can be seen the steep cliffs of an isle with no known access to the secrets that hide high atop the lush isle. All that can be seen are the treetops of majestic redwoods that peek out above the rocky ridges of the coastline. Druids tell tales that this is the portion of the Jaggedpine Forest once called the Unkempt Woods and that access can only be attained via the druid rings or a spell lost to time, if not both.</P> <DIV> <HR> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Jaale on <span class=date_text>07-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:12 PM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>The Unkempt Woods was never a zone in EQlive. It wasn't part of Jaggedpine Forest, but there was a sealed off entrance in the back part of the zone that would eventually lead to Nedaria's Landing (read: after time split.)</DIV>

[Jaale]

<P>Edit again after digging about it would appear that my previous post relates to a new adventure pack for EQ and it is after the time split so we may never hear or see any of the lore for it.</P> <P>It is very odd that it was bought up in the EQ2 boards (granted it was in a post about it before anyone knew it was for EQ) more odd is that Vhalen gave more info on it if it was always due for EQ rather than EQ2.. maybe a last minute change of heart?</P> <P>either way it's not something for us to worry about anymore.. though it would have been a cool adventure pack <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (hint consider giving us a version <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )</P> <P> </P> <P>edit spelling.</P><p>Message Edited by Jaale on <span class=date_text>07-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:47 PM</span>

[Vhalen]

<P>Here is a bit of information in regards to subjects brought up in this thread:</P> <P>1. Zek is a portion of the once great evergreen forest called the Jaggedpine Forest. That woodland was shattered like most of the regions of Old Antonica. Zek represents a part of that forest. Other small isles exist that contain chunks of the Jaggedpine Forest. </P> <P>2. Deathfist Citadel is a fortress created by the orcs of the Deathfist Empire. These orcs are comprised of numerous orc clans that existed in the eastern half of Old Antonica. The roots of this orc empire sprang from the Desert of Ro and spread into the Commonlands. It would not be surprising to find evidence of an original Deathfist Citadel in the desert of Old Antonica.</P> <P>3. There are numerous islands located in the Shattered Lands. Not all of these islands will be presented in game, but we know they are there. One of these islands happens to contain a chunk of forestland once known as the Unkempt Wood. The Far Seas Trading Company believes that a portion of that woodland is what forms the island that they call The Forbidden Forest. The cliffs of this towering isle are nearly impossible to scale. If one were to begin the long climb along the cliffs they would no doubt encounter one of the many birds of prey that dwell there, many of which are quite large and vicious.</P>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Heehee.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Usually, we're the ones who quote Vhalen on his posts..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm actually surprised he didn't quote himself in that post there. :p</DIV>

[Luthorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Abyssion wrote:<BR>I have been looking at some maps of Norrath from EQ1, and Norrath from EQ2 and I have a few questions. <BR><BR>#1 would be, What is Zek? From a geological standpoint, it looks like Zek is right where the Unkept Woods were. Since there is no more Desert of Ro, did the orcs retreat to the Unkept Woods and rebuild the Deathfist Citadel there?<BR><BR>Question 2 is, Did Blackburrow move? In the old Norrath, Blackburrow was north of Qeynos, now its pretty far South.<BR><BR>Keep in mind, I never played EQ1, and all of this is based on these maps: <BR><BR> [snip]<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Whoops - was about to say that BB was south of Qeynos in EQ1, but looking at the EQAtlas map, I see you are correct.  Here's the map from EQAtlas to illustrate: <A href="http://www.eqatlas.com/qeynoshillsmap.html" target=_blank>http://www.eqatlas.com/qeynoshillsmap.html</A></P><p>Message Edited by Luthorn on <span class=date_text>07-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:45 AM</span>

[Priestbane]

EQ2's Blackburrow is far more east than south.  Since the EQ2 version still has the blocked off tunnel to Everfrost, we can surmise that the shattering may have moved islands about a bit... and not just in location.

[Kodros]

Here's my theory as to what happened to BB.  BB is the same dungeon as it was in EQ1.  It hasn't moved.  The continent ofAntonica and Thundering Steppes on the other hand have moved.  Basically take Qeynos Hills from EQ1 and rotate it clockwise by 90 degrees.  During this continent shift, Qeynos must have been built on a more solid foundation of rock and therefore didn't shift.  Qeynos Hills then broke off from the City of Qeynos during it's rotation which is why Qyenos is now its own island.   In EQ1, Qeynos hills only connected to North Qeynos.  In EQ2, Qeynos Hills is connected to both North and South Qeynos which further backs my theory of a 90 degree rotation.  <div></div>

[Rezikai]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kodros wrote:<BR>Here's my theory as to what happened to BB.  BB is the same dungeon as it was in EQ1.  It hasn't moved.  The continent ofAntonica and Thundering Steppes on the other hand have moved.  Basically take Qeynos Hills from EQ1 and rotate it clockwise by 90 degrees.  During this continent shift, Qeynos must have been built on a more solid foundation of rock and therefore didn't shift.  Qeynos Hills then broke off from the City of Qeynos during it's rotation which is why Qyenos is now its own island.   In EQ1, Qeynos hills only connected to North Qeynos.  In EQ2, Qeynos Hills is connected to both North and South Qeynos which further backs my theory of a 90 degree rotation.  <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>this actually would make sense.. turning the continent as if Qeynos was the anchor and the rest fo the plates shifted in that 90* fashion possible showing why Qeynos is partialy broken from the mainland as  it is today...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>...and yea the "rebuilding" of BB was talked about by Moorguard.. but the continent rotation would explain alot about why the Qey hills are more east of the city.. </DIV><p>Message Edited by Porkchop133 on <span class=date_text>07-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:06 PM</span>

[Mirander_1]

<div></div> for Blackburrow, my theory has been that it's the exact same location as it was in EQlive and that between zoning out of antonica and zoning into Blackburrow your character just travels through a long tunnel.  This allows BB to stay where it always was and acount for the change in the entrance's location<div></div>

[SageGaspar]

http://eq2.gamepressure.com/maps_qeynos_all.aspQeynos got destroyed and rebuilt. You can see the remains of the original gate, which pointed north, in the Elddar Grove. As you can see, it's now pointing east. So east is the old north.<div></div>

[KniteShayd]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kodros wrote:<BR>Here's my theory as to what happened to BB.  BB is the same dungeon as it was in EQ1.  It hasn't moved.  The continent ofAntonica and Thundering Steppes on the other hand have moved.  Basically take Qeynos Hills from EQ1 and rotate it clockwise by 90 degrees.  During this continent shift, Qeynos must have been built on a more solid foundation of rock and therefore didn't shift.  Qeynos Hills then broke off from the City of Qeynos during it's rotation which is why Qyenos is now its own island.   In EQ1, Qeynos hills only connected to North Qeynos.  In EQ2, Qeynos Hills is connected to both North and South Qeynos which further backs my theory of a 90 degree rotation. <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>That is a very plausable theory, but if that was the case then TS would be in a different location. </DIV> <DIV>It was originally theorized that the vale was the entrance to surefall since it contained a druid ring, but then if it was then zek should be where TS is today.  thats not the case. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>layout-wise when you leave NQ, BB is where it should be when entering Antonica, But in EQlive it was north of NQ. </DIV> <DIV> if antonica/qeynos hills <EM>did</EM> rotate, then TS/Plains of Karana was pushed out and antonica was wedged between it after Surefall-Jagged Pine/Zek broke off.  Now that I would believe, especially since there was major, geographical upheaval.  it seems to me that would be the only way to explain current locales.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I posted something more extensive about this awhile back here, but i don't remember what i had explained. /shrug</DIV>

[Dregor]

BB seems fine location wise to me.  It was always on the right when heading up through Qeynos Hills.  With that area turned around, it's still on the right, that just happens to be south now.  As for distance, well.. let's face it, all the areas are larger, just go with it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Kodros]

<div><blockquote><hr>KniteShayd wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Kodros wrote:Here's my theory as to what happened to BB.  BB is the same dungeon as it was in EQ1.  It hasn't moved.  The continent ofAntonica and Thundering Steppes on the other hand have moved.  Basically take Qeynos Hills from EQ1 and rotate it clockwise by 90 degrees.  During this continent shift, Qeynos must have been built on a more solid foundation of rock and therefore didn't shift.  Qeynos Hills then broke off from the City of Qeynos during it's rotation which is why Qyenos is now its own island.   In EQ1, Qeynos hills only connected to North Qeynos.  In EQ2, Qeynos Hills is connected to both North and South Qeynos which further backs my theory of a 90 degree rotation.  <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <div>That is a very plausable theory, but if that was the case then TS would be in a different location. </div> <div>It was originally theorized that the vale was the entrance to surefall since it contained a druid ring, but then if it was then zek should be where TS is today.  thats not the case. </div> <div> </div> <div>layout-wise when you leave NQ, BB is where it should be when entering Antonica, But in EQlive it was north of NQ. </div> <div> if antonica/qeynos hills <em>did</em> rotate, then TS/Plains of Karana was pushed out and antonica was wedged between it after Surefall-Jagged Pine/Zek broke off.  Now that I would believe, especially since there was major, geographical upheaval.  it seems to me that would be the only way to explain current locales.</div> <div> </div> <div>I posted something more extensive about this awhile back here, but i don't remember what i had explained. /shrug</div><hr></blockquote>Yeah, I thought about TS also.  Like Dregor said though, the layout is still the same.  In EQ1, you would go north to Qeynos Hills and then east to get to the Karanas.  Rotate the continent (or what broke off which was Qeynos hills, part of the Karanas, other stuff...) 90 degrees clockwise.  In EQ2, now you have to go East to get to Antonica (Qeynos Hills), and then South to get to TS.  In EQ1, after entering East Karana from Qeynos Hills, you could still go North a bit.  It just seems that the old entrance to the Karanas broke off so they had to make a new one (well two actually...). </div>

[Alexandr]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Kodros wrote:<div> In EQ1, after entering <b>East Karana</b> from Qeynos Hills, you could still go North a bit.  It just seems that the old entrance to the Karanas broke off so they had to make a new one (well two actually...).</div><hr></blockquote>Just a slight correction, From Qeynos Hills you zoned into <b>West</b> <b>Karana</b>, (where the Werewolf ate all my lowbies sometimes), from there you zoned into North Karana and from NK, you could go to South and East. East Karana lead to Highhold Pass. The latter I always found fascinating with all those images on the cliffs.</div>

[Kodros]

<div><blockquote><hr>Alexandros wrote:<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Kodros wrote:<div> In EQ1, after entering <b>East Karana</b> from Qeynos Hills, you could still go North a bit.  It just seems that the old entrance to the Karanas broke off so they had to make a new one (well two actually...).</div><hr></blockquote>Just a slight correction, From Qeynos Hills you zoned into <b>West</b> <b>Karana</b>, (where the Werewolf ate all my lowbies sometimes), from there you zoned into North Karana and from NK, you could go to South and East. East Karana lead to Highhold Pass. The latter I always found fascinating with all those images on the cliffs.</div><hr></blockquote>Ugh...yeah I meant west.  For some reason, after moving from the East coast to the West coast, I keep screwing up my east and west.  I think its because I lived in Philly for most of my life so I always think that part of my brain thinks Im still on the east coast yet the other part knows that Im on the west coast...then they just duke it out till one of them wins.</div>

[Alexandr]

Hehe, that's ok. Just wanted to correct that very minor mistake so others didn't get confused.<div></div>

[Aaraminn]

Since we are on this subject, here is one that I never could figure out. If I missed the reference somewhere, please correct me. During my EQLive days, I printed out all of the EQ Atlas maps and placed them in binders for reference, so I just checked them all to make sure. In EQLive, you went North out of East Commonlands into Nektulos Forest. Way in the northeast of Nektulos was the entrance to Neriak. In fact, it was right near the Lavastorm entrance. Now, I have heard that Nektulos was redone recently in EQLive, but I have not had a chance to check it out and see what they did.Anyways, when I look in my EQ2 Atlas (and visit the zones ingame), I notice that Fallen Gate is called Neriak of Old (and bears a slight resemblance to EQ Live Neriak), but it is in the far East of the Commonlands zone, nowhere near where it used to be (Nektropos is closer now). How the heck did it get that far away? If it is a result of "The Rending" I would think that an upheaval large enough to move an entire city a several zones would not have left the city intact in any way, much less the land inbetween, including Nektulos. Just wondering...<div></div>

[Kodros]

<div><blockquote><hr>Aaraminn wrote:Since we are on this subject, here is one that I never could figure out. If I missed the reference somewhere, please correct me. During my EQLive days, I printed out all of the EQ Atlas maps and placed them in binders for reference, so I just checked them all to make sure. In EQLive, you went North out of East Commonlands into Nektulos Forest. Way in the northeast of Nektulos was the entrance to Neriak. In fact, it was right near the Lavastorm entrance. Now, I have heard that Nektulos was redone recently in EQLive, but I have not had a chance to check it out and see what they did.Anyways, when I look in my EQ2 Atlas (and visit the zones ingame), I notice that Fallen Gate is called Neriak of Old (and bears a slight resemblance to EQ Live Neriak), but it is in the far East of the Commonlands zone, nowhere near where it used to be (Nektropos is closer now). How the heck did it get that far away? If it is a result of "The Rending" I would think that an upheaval large enough to move an entire city a several zones would not have left the city intact in any way, much less the land inbetween, including Nektulos. Just wondering...<div></div><hr></blockquote>That..I dont have an answer to.  My best guess (even though it is extremely far fetched and somewhat incorrect) is that Neriak stretched far underground to the west.  The entrance to Neriak that we have now in EQ2 is (Im pretty sure) part of the 3rd gate from the EQ1 Neriak.  </div>

[PokemonLuVer]

Fallen gate is the first gate of Neriak. It is a more plausable theory however that when redesigning these zones, rather than take literal scale dimensions they rather scaled everything up much larger. Also i is a good chance that the current islands are all part of seperate Tectonic plates. Due to the cataclysms the mantle of norrath may have becom fluid enough to slide these pieces of crust around. There is also never mention how much influence certain gods may have had in the rending, perhaps in the pacts made between the gods during the decision to leave, Brell was given the task of guideing the eventual rsting places of the land. <div></div>

[Jetrauben2]

<DIV>The Fallen Gate thing is rather simply explained: climate change. Obviously Nektulos Forest has shrank in the time since Eq1, given the vast climate and tectonic changes in the Rending. Moving seas does BAD stuff.</DIV>

[Aaraminn]

<P>Pokemon, your explanation would be the best fit I suppose, and the best reason to explain it. To me, some of the zone discrepancies feel like EQ2 devs did not pay enough attention to EQ1 layout. I know that they have to make the EQ2 versions of zones bigger and better than the EQ1 versions, but they can still do this while retaining a feel of the old zones. A lot of people playing have not played EQ1 so they don't have an attachment to certain zones, but a lot of us have, and part of the thrill of going to a zone that was in the old world is seeing how it looks with the new game engine. Fallen Gate is recognizable to me, and was fun to see the first time (my necro in EQ1 spent a LOT of time there), but some other zones have not been as recognizable. Even so, the change in locations throws things out of whack as well. This is true not just for the entire zones, but certain landmarks in other zones.</P> <P>I am really hoping that the zones they introduce with EoF resemble the old world zones quite a bit. My main in EQ1 was a Dwarf Paladin, so I am really anxious to see BB Mountains, Unrest, (two of my favorite zones in the entire game) and possibly Kaladim, not to mention all of the rest. I was a map fiend in EQ1, which may explain why this rankles me more than it does others, and it really is not that big a deal, because I still enjoy the game.</P> <P>And, as for Nektulos, if you check some of the lore (I believe the EQ2 Atlas has some, as well as other places), it is explained that Nektulos is full of malice and has only grown in size since EQ1.</P>

[PokemonLuVer]

Well Hopefully The dev are going to keep to there word on Faydwer. They said in some posts that the continent of faydwer was little touched by the rending. So Hopefully the changes will be the changes that come with only time and not devistration. <div></div>