Your Cosmology

[Vhalen]

<DIV> <P>The cosmology of the EQ universe has often been debated. Many of the greatest minds on Norrath have theorized on the hierarchy of the planes. The astronomers of the innovative empire of Ak'Anon have come close to understanding the truth, but even they fail to understand the cosmology that was created from the universal mechanics of the Nameless. Such things have eluded even the great intellects of Erudin and the think tanks of the Academy of Arcane Science. No, such things cannot be comprehended by mortals. But there are those amongst us that have a near perfect understanding of the cosmology and they put it to great use to further their goals.</P> <P> </P> <P>So as to not leave all Norrathians in the dark, I will share with you what has been passed on for ages. This information is what the EQ2 universe is based off and it is what has always been intended since the beginning of time. It will not answer all of your questions, but it has answered a few planar queries sent to me through PM's. Here is what little you can know.</P> <P> </P> <P>The hierarchy of the planes and deities of the EQ universe has always been misunderstood and sometimes even misinterpreted. The most popular knowledge to date can be found here. There is the Nameless, who created it all. Sitting at the top of his universal hierarchy are the four elemental planes, The Outer Planes. These powers create much of the mechanics of the universe with their gods and godly councils governing over them. You know these elemental deities best as the Triumvirate, Xegony, The Rathe Council and Fennin Ro. These elemental planes give birth to the Inner Planes. The Inner Planes are the eight planes of Influence and the eight planes of Nature. Below the Inner Planes you can find all the other planes, a cosmology of quasi planes that often carry the title of plane, such as the Plane of Innovation or the Plane of Tactics. All these lesser planes derive their power from the Inner Planes and are often finite. Without the Inner Planes, they could not exist.</P> <P> </P> <P>Now, there are some empty spaces all about this foundation that I cannot get into. Some day, you may discover tomes of great scholars and mages that will shed light on these empty pockets. Would time be one of these pockets? Would the Void? How do they fit into this cosmology? These pockets often blanket over all of reality and touch everything that exists. They may be a result of the mechanics of the universe. Some theorists call these unknown realms, dimensions.</P></DIV>

[SaintJ]

Sounds alot like AO from FR to me. :smileywink:

[Rezikai]

<P>:smileysurprised:</P> <P> </P> <P>and we didnt even bribe him w/ chocolate</P>

[RaphaNissi]

Great info, thanks!<div></div>

[Talz]

<div><blockquote><hr>Vhalen wrote:<div></div> <div>Now, there are some empty spaces all about this foundation that I cannot get into. Some day, you may discover tomes of great scholars and mages that will shed light on these empty pockets. Would time be one of these pockets? Would the Void? How do they fit into this cosmology? These pockets often blanket over all of reality and touch everything that exists. They may be a result of the mechanics of the universe. Some theorists call these unknown realms, dimensions.</div><hr></blockquote>If people are really into these kind of things in the game world they should take a look at it in the real world.  Depending on which route you take it tends to be more theoretical than other branches.  This allows people to jump in and grasp the concepts more easily and be able to discuss them without needing letters after their last name.There are a lot of interesting theories and if you are able to be objective you will even enjoy the ones you don't think are possible.  Because in the end and as history has shown at every turn, we never know as much as we think we know.</div>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vhalen wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P>The cosmology of the EQ universe has often been debated. Many of the greatest minds on Norrath have theorized on the hierarchy of the planes. The astronomers of the innovative empire of Ak'Anon have come close to understanding the truth, but even they fail to understand the cosmology that was created from the universal mechanics of the Nameless. Such things have eluded even the great intellects of Erudin and the think tanks of the Academy of Arcane Science.<BR></P> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I'm sorry. It's all my fault.</P> <P>Had I known that these centers of research had all been trying to find these things out, I would have gladly told them.</P>

[Zabjade]

<div></div><font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">Me I just think of it as Creator God (Commonly called the Nameless in the Ro System)  > aspect godlings </font></font></font><div></div><p>Message Edited by Zabjade on <span class=date_text>07-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:17 PM</span>

[Mareth]

My DnD attuned brain just fizzled at the use of 'outer' and 'inner' plane termiology <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />great stuff though <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Renita_Serafim]

<DIV>Just a theory based on in-game lore, but I've always seen the Void as something that exists because it <EM>has</EM> to.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A place where nothing, neither time nor space, exists. It exists because both time and space had to have a birthplace, and what remains outside of that birthplace is nothingness incarnate. It has a will of it's own, and it finds the meaningless reality outside it's bounds to be an abhorrence that must be set right.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Astralmage on <span class=date_text>07-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:13 PM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Makes sense, considering that not even the Gods can enter the void and come out without suffering damage from just being in it.</DIV>

[Whazy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vhalen wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P>The cosmology of the EQ universe has often been debated. Many of the greatest minds on Norrath have theorized on the hierarchy of the planes. <STRONG><EM><FONT color=#ffff00>The astronomers of the innovative empire of Ak'Anon have come close to understanding the truth</FONT></EM></STRONG>, but even they fail to understand the cosmology that was created from the universal mechanics of the Nameless. Such things have eluded even the great intellects of Erudin and the think tanks of the Academy of Arcane Science. No, such things cannot be comprehended by mortals. But there are those amongst us that have a near perfect understanding of the cosmology and they put it to great use to further their goals.</P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>The Gnomes will figure it all out.   I have trust in the Gnomish intellect.<BR></P>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Nah. Those gnomes are crafty, but they always miss key mathematical figurations somewhere along the line.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They only reason they didn't figure this out was because they forgot to divide by the square root of frogs.</DIV>

[Renita_Serafim]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>Makes sense, considering that not even the Gods can enter the void and come out without suffering damage from just being in it.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What instances have there beeen of gods suffering harm from entering the Void? I can't seem to recall any.

[Punkbr]

<div><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div>Nah. Those gnomes are crafty, but they always miss key mathematical figurations somewhere along the line.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>They only reason they didn't figure this out was because they forgot to divide by the square root of frogs.</div><hr></blockquote>You'd think they'd learn from that horrible event that occured when they miscalculated Froglok + Pirrhana divided by Luclin.</div>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Astralmage wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>Makes sense, considering that not even the Gods can enter the void and come out without suffering damage from just being in it.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What instances have there beeen of gods suffering harm from entering the Void? I can't seem to recall any.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What instances have there been of gods just entering the Void?

[Renita_Serafim]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>Makes sense, <STRONG>considering that not even the Gods can enter the void and come out without suffering damage from just being in it</STRONG>.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I'd assumed from this comment that there had been instances of this actually happening before.<BR>

[Cusashorn]

Well, Vhalen said that the very nature of the Void is harmful and corrupting. Anything that enters inside it will be tainted, harmed, and corrupted just by being there. One would only assume that a God would take damage as well, since they can be weakened.

[Mareth]

<div><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div></div>Well, Vhalen said that the very nature of the Void is harmful and corrupting. Anything that enters inside it will be tainted, harmed, and corrupted just by being there. One would only assume that a God would take damage as well, since they can be weakened.<hr></blockquote>This is true, even geometry is corrupted in there!</div>

[Zabjade]

<blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div>Nah. Those gnomes are crafty, but they always miss key mathematical figurations somewhere along the line.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>They only reason they didn't figure this out was because they forgot to divide by the square root of frogs.</div><hr></blockquote><font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">What they miss are basic safty protocols and covers for essential cogs/gears/etc. They often also "Flood the engine" as it were to the point of explosions.</font></font></font><div></div>

[Ama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vhalen wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P>The cosmology of the EQ universe has often been debated. Many of the greatest minds on Norrath have theorized on the hierarchy of the planes. The astronomers of the innovative empire of Ak'Anon have come close to understanding the truth, but even they fail to understand the cosmology that was created from the universal mechanics of the Nameless. Such things have eluded even the great intellects of Erudin and the think tanks of the Academy of Arcane Science. No, such things cannot be comprehended by mortals. But there are those amongst us that have a near perfect understanding of the cosmology and they put it to great use to further their goals.<BR></P> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR><FONT color=#ff0000>It is rather interesting to see that there are only some who have a near perfect understanding of the cosmology putting that knlowedge to use furthering their own goals.  As for such things not being able to be comprehended by mortals what about immortals or creatures who are not mortals to speak of.  I wonder if the mighty Lord Nagafen has this kind of knowledge and if so how does he use it?</FONT></P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vhalen wrote: <DIV> <P>The hierarchy of the planes and deities of the EQ universe has always been misunderstood and sometimes even misinterpreted. The most popular knowledge to date can be found here. There is the Nameless, who created it all. Sitting at the top of his universal hierarchy are the four elemental planes, The Outer Planes. These powers create much of the mechanics of the universe with their gods and godly councils governing over them. You know these elemental deities best as the Triumvirate, Xegony, The Rathe Council and Fennin Ro. These elemental planes give birth to the Inner Planes. The Inner Planes are the eight planes of Influence and the eight planes of Nature. Below the Inner Planes you can find all the other planes, a cosmology of quasi planes that often carry the title of plane, such as the Plane of Innovation or the Plane of Tactics. All these lesser planes derive their power from the Inner Planes and are often finite. Without the Inner Planes, they could not exist.</P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR><FONT color=#ff0000>This I find quite interesting that there are 4 elemental planes that then create 16 other planes, 8 of Influence and 8 of Nature. This leads to me to ask what exists on the plane of nature?  I have talked about this before but in EQOA you could obtain a powerful epic item called the Druidic Staff of Elwith that was quote "Imbued with the antlers of a great stag from the Plane of Growth."</FONT></P> <P><IMG height=280 src="http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/3141/9793sz.jpg" width=508></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Two other interests I have are the preposed lesser planes that draw their power from the inner planes.  These planes having a sort of "planar" title as it were one example vhalen mentions is the Plane of Innovation.  The second part that interests me is that these quote "lesser" planes are often finite which to me makes me wonder if the planes we once knew are dieing out.  This being they have used up all the power that was spared to them and they are now being destroyed either from no power or by something else.  </FONT></P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vhalen wrote: <DIV> <P>Now, there are some empty spaces all about this foundation that I cannot get into. Some day, you may discover tomes of great scholars and mages that will shed light on these empty pockets. Would time be one of these pockets? Would the Void? How do they fit into this cosmology? These pockets often blanket over all of reality and touch everything that exists. They may be a result of the mechanics of the universe. Some theorists call these unknown realms, dimensions.</P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>So in essence by some theories the planes could be considered different dimensions possibly being governed by rule sets not of regular Norrath.  This corresponding to one tale I heard where the plane of disease or hate in old EQ1 would sap away at a person erroding them from the inside out. </FONT><BR></P>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amana wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#ff0000>This I find quite interesting that there are 4 elemental planes that then create 16 other planes, 8 of Influence and 8 of Nature. <STRONG>This leads to me to ask what exists on the plane of nature?</STRONG>  I have talked about this before but in EQOA you could obtain a powerful epic item called the Druidic Staff of Elwith that was quote "Imbued with the antlers of a great stag from the Plane of Growth."</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>It's a figure of description of how the gods are divided up.</P> <P><BR>The Gods of Nature are Tunare, Prexus, Bertoxxulous, Rodcet Nife, Veeshan, Brell Serilis, Solusek Ro, and Karana.</P> <P>8 Gods who represent a physical element that makes Norrath what it is. Nature, Caverns, Oceans, Disease and Decay, Life and Regrowth, Sunlight, Weather, and Sky. Physical elements that make up the world around us.</P> <P> </P> <P>The Gods of Influence are Mithanial Marr, Erollisi Marr, Cazic Thule, Innoruuk, Rallos Zek, Bristlebane, The Tribunal, and Quellious.</P> <P>8 Gods who represent influential states of the mind such as emotions. Love, Hate, Valor, Justice, Mischief, Peace, War, and Fear. Non-tangible elements of the mind that influence and affect the way we percieve the world around us.</P>

[RaphaNissi]

<div><blockquote><hr>Amana wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Vhalen wrote: <div> <p>Now, there are some empty spaces all about this foundation that I cannot get into. Some day, you may discover tomes of great scholars and mages that will shed light on these empty pockets. Would time be one of these pockets? Would the Void? How do they fit into this cosmology? These pockets often blanket over all of reality and touch everything that exists. They may be a result of the mechanics of the universe. Some theorists call these unknown realms, dimensions.</p></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p><font color="#ff0000">So in essence by some theories the planes could be considered different dimensions possibly being governed by rule sets not of regular Norrath.  This corresponding to one tale I heard where the plane of disease or hate in old EQ1 would sap away at a person erroding them from the inside out. </font></p><hr></blockquote>I don't think Vhalen was talking about the actual planes here.  He mentions the other realms, dimentions are pockets filling up the foundations of the planes.  I think of them more as the mortar that runs all through the foundation where the blocks are the planes we know.  Probably not the best analagy but one that we mortals can wrap our brains around <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</div>

[Auelaen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amana wrote:<BR><FONT color=#ff0000>It is rather interesting to see that there are only some who have a near perfect understanding of the cosmology putting that knlowedge to use furthering their own goals.  As for such things not being able to be comprehended by mortals what about immortals or creatures who are not mortals to speak of.  I wonder if the mighty Lord Nagafen has this kind of knowledge and if so how does he use it?</FONT> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Two other interests I have are the preposed lesser planes that draw their power from the inner planes.  These planes having a sort of "planar" title as it were one example vhalen mentions is the Plane of Innovation.  The second part that interests me is that these quote "lesser" planes are often finite which to me makes me wonder if the planes we once knew are dieing out.  This being they have used up all the power that was spared to them and they are now being destroyed either from no power or by something else.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>So in essence by some theories the planes could be considered different dimensions possibly being governed by rule sets not of regular Norrath.  This corresponding to one tale I heard where the plane of disease or hate in old EQ1 would sap away at a person erroding them from the inside out. </FONT><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>My money would be on the belief that Nagafen probably views most of the Gods as imposters/non-existant/etc. and sees Veeshan, Mother of all Wurms as the only god of importance, but there has been a lot time for things to change so who knows.</P> <P>As far as the lesser planes, it is mentioned that in their weakened state due to the constant ransacking of their planes, the gods could no longer sustain lesser planes. That is why they removed their influence from Norrath,  so they could regain their strength and lockout humans from the planes. Here is the basic quote from the Tome of Destiny, Chapter 1:</P> <P>"We don't have time for that," Solusek Ro asserted. "The demi-planes are already weakened--in fact, some have simply faded from existence, as our powers have grown too thin to sustain them. We must refocus our resources and strike back while we still can."<BR></P>

[Renita_Serafim]

<P>I was going over the Planar Progression log on Lumena's <A href="http://lorenorrath.free.fr/index.php" target=_blank>Lore of Norrath</A> page to refresh my memory, and noticed something curious in Zebuxoruk's words.</P> <P></P> <HR> <P>Zebuxoruk says, 'I am surprised at the gods for taking such drastic measures, though I suppose all of the creations of the Nameless are capable of displaying poor judgment and irrational behavior. These gods are burdened with powers and responsibilities beyond our comprehension, yet at times even they do not understand the eventual effect of their actions. I am compelled to share the knowledge of the gods with the populace of Norrath, so that I might save their creations. They do not realize that if mortality ceases to exist... if they are not worshipped and held aloft by the beliefs of those that they now have grown to fear... they will fall from power and a new age of darkness will wash over existence as they know it. I did not seek to interfere with them or their realms, only to free them from a fate that awaits all of us. It is this fate that now stands ready, <STRONG>greedily gathered on the edge of the void</STRONG>, ready to test the will of all mortals.</P> <HR> <P>I know the comment highlighted in bold is refering to the forces of Mata Muram, but this does sound awfully similar to the Obelisk of Lost Souls. Does this mean that the Planes of Discord and the Obelisk share common origins in the Void?</P><p>Message Edited by Astralmage on <span class=date_text>07-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:37 AM</span>

[Ama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Auelaen wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amana wrote:<BR><FONT color=#ff0000>It is rather interesting to see that there are only some who have a near perfect understanding of the cosmology putting that knlowedge to use furthering their own goals.  As for such things not being able to be comprehended by mortals what about immortals or creatures who are not mortals to speak of.  I wonder if the mighty Lord Nagafen has this kind of knowledge and if so how does he use it?</FONT> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Two other interests I have are the preposed lesser planes that draw their power from the inner planes.  These planes having a sort of "planar" title as it were one example vhalen mentions is the Plane of Innovation.  The second part that interests me is that these quote "lesser" planes are often finite which to me makes me wonder if the planes we once knew are dieing out.  This being they have used up all the power that was spared to them and they are now being destroyed either from no power or by something else.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>So in essence by some theories the planes could be considered different dimensions possibly being governed by rule sets not of regular Norrath.  This corresponding to one tale I heard where the plane of disease or hate in old EQ1 would sap away at a person erroding them from the inside out. </FONT><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>My money would be on the belief that Nagafen probably views most of the Gods as imposters/non-existant/etc. and sees Veeshan, Mother of all Wurms as the only god of importance, but there has been a lot time for things to change so who knows.</P> <P>As far as the lesser planes, it is mentioned that in their weakened state due to the constant ransacking of their planes, the gods could no longer sustain lesser planes. That is why they removed their influence from Norrath,  so they could regain their strength and lockout humans from the planes. Here is the basic quote from the Tome of Destiny, Chapter 1:</P> <P>"We don't have time for that," Solusek Ro asserted. "The demi-planes are already weakened--in fact, some have simply faded from existence, as our powers have grown too thin to sustain them. We must refocus our resources and strike back while we still can."<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>It is really hard for me to see Nagafen even following Veeshan's will.  He seems to have acted on his own much like the other dragons and may harbor a certain hatred toward his other brethern.  The only dragon he seemed to have any sort of kindness, compasion, or harbored no animosity toward was Lady Vox. </P> <P>Dragons to me are very fickled creatures having the capability to both harm or hurt anyone or anything they wish even having the capability to disobey very strict rules.  We all know about Lord Nagafen's supreme punishment for trying to mate with Lady Vox almost producing another Prismatic Dragon. :smileywink:</P> <P>What is Solusek Ro talking about when he says "We must refocus our resources and strike back while we still can?"  Was that the beginning of the shattering that upended Norrath tearing it asunder?</P> <P>One thing I want to know is where do the 3 realms of the Overrealm fit into this picture?  I mean if the gods have withdrawn their influence what keeps these 3 places from dissappearing into nothingness or for the matter crashing into Norrath itself creating massive Chaos? </P> <P>Makes me suspicious that the gods may have withdrawn only a partial amount of their will from Norrath.  Perhaps they have kept a small part of their will with us asserting that they are not gone forever.  But for me thats just a vague and I do me vague assumption. :smileywink:<BR></P>

[randomname]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amana wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>What is Solusek Ro talking about when he says "We must refocus our resources and strike back while we still can?"  Was that the beginning of the shattering that upended Norrath tearing it asunder?</P> <P>One thing I want to know is where do the 3 realms of the Overrealm fit into this picture?  I mean if the gods have withdrawn their influence what keeps these 3 places from dissappearing into nothingness or for the matter crashing into Norrath itself creating massive Chaos? </P> <P>Makes me suspicious that the gods may have withdrawn only a partial amount of their will from Norrath.  Perhaps they have kept a small part of their will with us asserting that they are not gone forever.  But for me thats just a vague and I do me vague assumption. :smileywink:<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I take from Solusek's comments that he still wishes to destroy the mortals. Not with the shattering, or rending. Just pure armageddon. End all life and start over. He makes that remark before the Tranquil reveals her plan. So I don't believe it has anything to do with the events in the Age of War or Cataclysm.</P> <P>Isnt that exactly what happened with the Overrealm. I thought it was the remnants of the Plane of Sky that fell to Norrath and is now apart of our sky. How exactlly the islands remain floating their without Veeshan's power is a mystery. However, she was never there for the orginal Plane of Sky and it existed. Also, she may or may not have been present at the Council of the Gods. So we don't know if the Overrealm (in its present state) was apart of the orginal plans of the Gods.<BR></P>

[Trie]

<div></div> Devolping the scientific and technical terms of the gods existance and relationship to norrath and its people is difficult.  In one aspect I am tempted to conclude that the gods do not really exist and are only projections of people (hope, valor, fear) and the planets (fire, water etc) Heck maybe none of norrrath and the gods exist and are only the figments of a brain damaged hospital patient sitting in a bed somewhere or (aka the nameless or Zeb). On the other hand maybe they are true beings dispite how they have attained so called godhood over others, but perhaps they are not true gods in the sense and are only maintained by their manipulation on peoples lives and are able to be weakened and possibly even kiled off. Possibly only one true creator exists which is the nameless, based loosly on the real god almighty perhaps? But this is just a game so... I find the concept of physical planes or "dimensions" players can invade interesting. Offing a gods essence and over time killing them completly or weaking them to the point of nothing or no recovery. Was this a wrong thing to do for the ppl of norrath? Perhaps, and why were they able to accomplish this? Many factors were involved, and I believe the shattering was in some form a last ditch attempt to keep ppl away. But in the end the Gods need the ppl to worship them or their influcence, and essence is void and no more, heh possibly being sent to the void themselves. What greater punishment or scary thing exists than being alone, cut off from everything else in nothingness like a hell in a sense. Another theory maybe was in the end somehow the shattering was some type of protection for the ppl of norrath. Maybe the gods are trying to shield off something coming from the void, something coming for them? If norrath is wiped out, they will be no more and defeated. Maybe Norrath is the last planet in the Ro system that has not been attacked by this threat and/or the gods are fighting the war on another planet for now?? The battle rages on in the heavens i would surmise, but I am glad the gods are coming back with the expansion, they add a good flavor to EQ that other mmo's dont have and also I am eager to learn new skills and stuff from Karana with deity system arrrg!!!

[MysticTrunks01]

What about the gnomish theory of "Evolution"?  You know, there are no gods, we all just developed through millions of years and different environements.  Dark elves adepting to living under ground...  Dwarves the same but doing heavy work... Halflings from interbreeding, ect ect.I don't know that i buy it myself, but listening to one of them talk on it, is rather facinating.<div></div>

[Renita_Serafim]

<DIV>In regard to the morality behind what my main (Renita) nicknamed the "Divine Revolution", the chain of events leading up to it speak for themselves.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <OL> <LI>Gods create mortalkind on Norrath as subservient pawns to both fawn over them and to slaughter the pawns of their opposing gods.</LI> <LI>Druzzil Ro takes a liking to Zebuxoruk, a mortal prophet, and aids in his rise to godhood. Since Zebuxoruk's presence in the Plane of Time is the source of a prophet's powers, I sense time paradox at work here.</LI> <LI>Zebuxoruk attempts to free mortals from their mortal bounds and make them equal to the gods that created them.</LI> <LI>The pantheon don't like this, seeing as they would be without their fawning playthings, and seal Zebuxoruk away.</LI> <LI>Mortalkind learn of Zebuxoruk's plight and attempt to free him at the precise moment in time that he is first sealed. They are stopped by Druzzil Ro.</LI> <LI>The gods are furious that mortals actually stood up for themselves and the freedom that has been kept from them thus far, and not only depart in a fit of temper, but ravage Norrath with catacylsms that cause countless deaths in a final act of spite.</LI> <LI>The gods prepare for their imminent return after they're had time to get over their temper from over a century earlier, no doubt expecting the mortals to be celebrating at their return.</LI></OL><p>Message Edited by Astralmage on <span class=date_text>07-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:42 AM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MysticTrunks01 wrote:<BR>What about the gnomish theory of "Evolution"?  You know, there are no gods, we all just developed through millions of years and different environements.  Dark elves adepting to living under ground...  Dwarves the same but doing heavy work... <STRONG>Halflings from interbreeding, ect ect.</STRONG><BR><BR>I don't know that i buy it myself, but listening to one of them talk on it, is rather facinating.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>[Removed for Content]<BR>

[Ama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Astralmage wrote:<BR> <DIV>In regard to the morality behind what my main (Renita) nicknamed the "Divine Revolution", the chain of events leading up to it speak for themselves.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <OL> <LI>Gods create mortalkind on Norrath as subservient pawns to both fawn over them and to slaughter the pawns of their opposing gods.</LI> <LI>Druzzil Ro takes a liking to Zebuxoruk, a mortal prophet, and aids in his rise to godhood. Since Zebuxoruk's presence in the Plane of Time is the source of a prophet's powers, I sense time paradox at work here.</LI> <LI>Zebuxoruk attempts to free mortals from their mortal bounds and make them equal to the gods that created them.</LI> <LI>The pantheon don't like this, seeing as they would be without their fawning playthings, and seal Zebuxoruk away.</LI> <LI>Mortalkind learn of Zebuxoruk's plight and attempt to free him at the precise moment in time that he is first sealed. They are stopped by Druzzil Ro.</LI> <LI>The gods are furious that mortals actually stood up for themselves and the freedom that has been kept from them thus far, and not only depart in a fit of temper, but ravage Norrath with catacylsms that cause countless deaths in a final act of spite.</LI> <LI>The gods prepare for their imminent return after they're had time to get over their temper from over a century earlier, no doubt expecting the mortals to be celebrating at their return.</LI></OL> <P>Message Edited by Astralmage on <SPAN class=date_text>07-09-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>10:42 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I never heard it put that way before astralmage but that is a very good plausible scenario.  I don't think the gods were quote P****ed off as you put it but I do believe they were sort of "Shocked" that their creations would rise against them.  Sort of a matrix thing with the machine rising against the humans that created them sort of thing. </P> <P>I do have to wonder exactly where the gods retreated to?  Did they retreat to their home planes using it like a power area to regain their strength or did they go to the primary planes to conveign with all the gods? </P>

[Renita_Serafim]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amana wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>I never heard it put that way before astralmage but that is a very good plausible scenario.  I don't think the gods were quote P****ed off as you put it but I do believe they were sort of "Shocked" that their creations would rise against them.  Sort of a matrix thing with the machine rising against the humans that created them sort of thing. </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I do have to wonder exactly where the gods retreated to?  Did they retreat to their home planes using it like a power area to regain their strength or did they go to the primary planes to conveign with all the gods? </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Funny you should make the Matrix comparison also. I'm an advocate of SOE hiring Keanu Reaves as Zebuxoruk's VA.</P> <P>The Tarton's Wheel lore refers to a plane where the gods true forms reside, where they can be slain and never return. It is possible that this plane is the Plane of Time, which is also said to be a realm where the gods can be slain for good. I had imagined that this is where the retreated to when they departed Norrath and regained the power they had lost in the "Divine Revolution".</P>

[Bhagpuss]

<blockquote><hr>SaintJay wrote:<div></div>Sounds alot like AO from FR to me. :smileywink:<hr></blockquote>Sounds like a lot of meaningless twaddle to me.<div></div>

[SaintJ]

<div><blockquote><hr>Bhagpuss wrote:<blockquote><hr>SaintJay wrote:<div></div>Sounds alot like AO from FR to me. :smileywink:<hr></blockquote>Sounds like a lot of meaningless twaddle to me.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Sounds like someone needs to learn how to enjoy a joke to me. <span>:smileywink:</span></div>