Velious Gnoll tribe

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">Note: up until recently I mistakenly refered to this clan as the Icepaw, In truth I believe they are called the Snowfang. I could be wrong. Back in EQ1 I noticed that of all of the Gnoll clans they started out neutral to most adventurers, and the novelty of it sparked my interest, this was continued back when the EQ pen and paper RPG came out and the Snowfang were the only Gnolls in the Monster manual that had stats to make a player character. I might have to wait until an "Oceans of Velious" expansion to find out what happened to these velium-imbued Gnolls (and the velium-imbued Dwarves of Thurgaden[sp]) I wonder if anyone had any lore on them? </font></font></font><div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Velium imbued is a wrong term to use, as only the dwarves forged velium weapons between the two races</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, the Icepaws were a clan of fishermen who worship E'Ci.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's all there is about them.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Cusashorn on <span class=date_text>07-01-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:05 AM</span>

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">I used Velium-imbued because that stuff was in their drinking water and it turned their skin ghostly white. I remember a glowing river of that stuff. I felt it kinder then saying Velium-tainted since they wern't drooling mutants who would scare the undead.  If you want to do Velium tainted you could always have crystals growing in their skin. Is it Icepaw or Snowfang? Any dev comment because I was thinking of making a story character who is one, shipwrecked alone in the Thundering Stepps  (Still deciding on his class Monk/Ranger/Beastlord) Since common rumor of Velious is that it melted can you imagine a glowing ocean filled with icebergs with the occasional island with refugee gnolls and dwarves or marrading Orcs and giants. <font color="#669900">Note: my version of a Beastlord is a Brawler without Feign Death and some of the kicking attacks, but replaced with Pet spell and a ice and disease attack set.  EQ2 balanced of course for those who whine about BL's.  Wether they have mend/pet heal or healing spells I'll leave be for now, but mend would go a long way to balancing them. </font><font color="#669900"> </font><font color="#669900"> </font><font color="#669900" size="2">NOT some Scout class.</font> </font></font></font><div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zabjade wrote:<BR><FONT color=#66ff00><FONT size=2><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">I used Velium-imbued because that stuff was in their drinking water and it turned their skin ghostly white. I remember a glowing river of that stuff. I felt it kinder then saying Velium-tainted since they wern't drooling mutants who would scare the undead.  If you want to do Velium tainted you could always have crystals growing in their skin.<BR><BR>Is it Icepaw or Snowfang? Any dev comment because I was thinking of making a story character who is one, shipwrecked alone in the Thundering Stepps  (Still deciding on his class Monk/Ranger/Beastlord)<BR><BR>Since common rumor of Velious is that it melted can you imagine a glowing ocean filled with icebergs with the occasional island with refugee gnolls and dwarves or marrading Orcs and giants.<BR><BR><BR><FONT color=#669900>Note: my version of a Beastlord is a Brawler without Feign Death and some of the kicking attacks, but replaced with Pet spell and a ice and disease attack set.  EQ2 balanced of course for those who whine about BL's.  Wether they have mend/pet heal or healing spells I'll leave be for now, but mend would go a long way to balancing them. </FONT><FONT color=#669900><BR></FONT><FONT color=#669900><BR></FONT><FONT color=#669900 size=2>NOT some Scout class.</FONT><BR></FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Snowfang was a named Icepaw gnoll. Anyway I thought the Coldain only turned white because they lived in the cold for so long. I never heard anything about magical properties from the water, but I never payed attention to any such details though.

[Zabjade]

<div></div><font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">Didn't you ever look at the steam from the waterfall at night? It made for one of the Brightest night time zones in the game. The velium had to be not only in the surface water but wells too. and cold would more likely turn someone blueish. even the Giants and orcs had washed out colors and the Gnolls had white fur. Interesting, then again it could be like the Sabertooth clan of Gnolls with the darkpaw family. and the Gnolls original name was Velax Snowfang... now I just have to figure out a class. On a side note what is the name of that Gnome organization that moniters Tinkerers I planned to have another character(Templar) who was one. Assembled group so far, (Wether I do anything or not is unknown): Cogsly (Surname pending)  Gnome Templar   Klornie Shadowfist Human Monk(Sue me for adding my charater :þ ) Jemauskaa (that's just the first pat of his first name, based heavily on Jimaska of Befallen Server) Erudite Wizard Klaive (Surname Pending) Teir'Dal Paladin Velax Snowfang Icepaw Gnoll (Class pending) </font></font></font><div></div><p>Message Edited by Zabjade on <span class=date_text>07-01-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:07 AM</span>

[Y]

Is there any actual lore that backs up your theory on Velium?<div></div>

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">No lore, that is why it is a THEORY, but there is a lot of circumstantal evidence. </font></font></font><div></div>

[RaphaNissi]

Hmmm...interesting theory but the effects you saw might just be because it's a cold, snowy environment.  Ever seen the sky when there is a full moon and snow all over the ground?  It's like daylight at times because it's so bright with the light reflecting off the snow.  As far as the color of everything being pale and white well...creatures adapt in the real world to their environment too.  Most bears are brown or black, but those that live in the frost and snow are white.  The lore does mention that the frozen ice under the snow has magical properties which would explain why they mine it and use it for jewelry and other tradeskills.<div></div>

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">Humanoid adtaptation would go more increased bodyhair then shin tone change. Humans who live in those enviroment tend to have reddish skin due to sunburns cold. and the skin was an almost albino white but the hair colors were normal. It's not just the dwarves either the Giants and Orcs have the same washed out color with the orcs being a very light grey. Humans(Example) absorb minerals from water drinken, Velium is a milky transparrent substance. the high content of the mineral in Velious meant that it was absormed into the body of the inhabitants. Someone who takes too many silver supliments with have a blueish tinge to them. the same is likely to happen to magicly charged minerals. </font></font></font><div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>the Ry'Gorr orcs are purple.</DIV>

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">Bah old memories. Iron deposites in human bodies will give one a ruddy appearance, and we have a lot of iron in our bodies already (Blood) </font></font></font><div></div>

[Nocturnal Aby]

<DIV>Hmm, unfortunately, the changes could also be explained by physical adaptations to their environment.  Gnolls with white fir would be much more likely to survive in a mostly white environment, same thing goes with the pale dwarves and giants.</DIV> <DIV>Also, one would think that the consumption of something like Velium would be more likely to cause negative side effects, similar to drinking mercury, or drinking from Pewter glasses, or having Asbestos powder in you drinking water, to name a few things.</DIV>

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">The white fur and camoflage I can accept, but not albino toned skin.  It all depends on where the minerals are deposited in the body. As for the negataive side effects, that depends if Velium is toxic to humanoid systems. Even if it is, you would be suprised at what a Humanoid body can adapt to.  Feed a someone small amounts of some poisions (Not enough to kill or even make sick)  over time they gain immunity to said poisons, there have even been some <u>stories</u> where they have ingested so much that they become toxic to others. </font></font></font><div></div>

[RaphaNissi]

The giants in Everfrost and Permafrost also have pale skin.  The environment theory has more facts backing it than your Velium theory.<div></div>

[Zabjade]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>RaphaNissi wrote:The giants in Everfrost and Permafrost also have pale skin.  The environment theory has more facts backing it than your Velium theory.<div></div><hr></blockquote><font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">Those are Ice Giants.</font></font></font><div></div><p>Message Edited by Zabjade on <span class=date_text>07-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:00 AM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zabjade wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RaphaNissi wrote:<BR>The giants in Everfrost and Permafrost also have pale skin.  The environment theory has more facts backing it than your Velium theory.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#66ff00><FONT size=2><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Those are Ice Giants.</FONT></FONT></FONT><BR> <P>Message Edited by Zabjade on <SPAN class=date_text>07-05-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:00 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Aye. It was stated from the lore behind the Curse of Rallos Zek that the giants who chose to remain behind in thier homelands were physically transformed into living beings of Ice while the rest of the giants moved south and tried to escape the curse.

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">Yup. Still, why do people have trouble with velium deposits  accumulating in a humanoid body, and accumulating in the epidermis? </font></font></font><div></div>

[IrishWonder]

<DIV>I think you gotta look at it from a dev standpoint, Zabjade :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV>Yes, in real life certain mineral deposits in your system can change the pigment of your skin. However, that is a far catch and fairly odd ideal for a dev to come up with in an expansion for a fantasy game. And, if they did spark that ideal and decided to use it, more than likely it would be more of a common knowledge deal, not a theory... they would have added some lore within the game that let us know that was the case.</DIV> <DIV>More than likely, the creatures and races in Velious are the color they are because of instinct... if you were going to make an entire expansion that was filled with snow-covered zones, what colorations would you give most of the creatures and races? In real life, snowy regions are populated by animals who blend in with the snow... having that fact resting on your mind your entire life would probably silently influence your choice when populating the zones.</DIV> <DIV>It's just natural human instincts.</DIV> <DIV>When we zone into a snowy zone, we expect to see white animals running around.</DIV> <DIV>When we zone into a zone full of lava, we expect to see fiery red creatures everywhere.</DIV> <DIV>When we zone into a jungle, we expect to see things like spiders, snakes... dense forest animals.</DIV> <DIV>It's just natural..... I'm not saying that the Velium theory is untrue... it's just hard to match it up against "natural reasons" when there's no proof but a theory.</DIV>

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">We arn't talking about animals who if they have the wrong color fur they either get eaten or can't supprise a potential meal.  Not all animals in cold weather have white fur either Mammoths had red-brown fur. Humans and by extention humaniods don't use protective coloration but use tools for distance hunting, or snared for trapping. In otherwords they use their minds. Also not that Polar Bears have clear hollow fur and black skin the combonation is what keeps them warm (Air pockes and heat absorbed through the skin.) BTW The river and waterfall that ran across the enterance to Thurgaden[sp] glowed both day(less viasable but it is there) and night(bright and radioactive looking white) AND in the Wyvern caves. </font></font></font><div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zabjade wrote:<BR><FONT color=#66ff00><FONT size=2><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Humans and by extention humaniods don't use protective coloration but use tools for distance hunting, or snared for trapping. In otherwords they use their minds.<BR><BR></FONT></FONT></FONT> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>But we do still rely on protective coloration. Its called camoflauge.

[Homeskillet]

    I really wonder why people keep talking about Velious melting when the only part that was actual ice floes was Iceclad Ocean, the rest was all snow and ice covered land mass. Even moreso, most of the ice of velious was Velium, so not exactly easy to melt.<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Homeskillet wrote:<BR>    I really wonder why people keep talking about Velious melting when the only part that was actual ice floes was Iceclad Ocean, the rest was all snow and ice covered land mass. Even moreso, most of the ice of velious was Velium, so not exactly easy to melt.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Snow melts. even if Velious is a solid landmass, the snow makes up 20% of it. Even if Velium  doesn't melt, snow and ice does.

[Homeskillet]

      Aye, but I mean in the sense people seem to have it in their heads that Velious was a big iceberg and is now completely gone.<div></div>

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">Humans tend to manufacture the coloration through the use of furs, paint, colored clothing or illusion/invisability spells </font></font></font><div></div>

[RaphaNissi]

<div></div>Taken from the EQlive lore page...The miners quickly discovered that the hard packed icelying beneath the snow of Velious was as durable and malleable asstone, and ideally suited for construction in this frozen land. Theywould later discover that the ice, known as Velium, had magicalproperties as well.The dwarves also stated it was their firm belief they were chosen by Brell to inhabit Velious.  Wouldn't it make sense then that he would give them physical properties to survive in such a land? (characteristics that would allow them camo from the giants)It also refers to the giants as frost giants. The barbarian account of Velious states that he thought all the frost giants were dead.  That would indicate they were possibly once in the region of Halas and would have been pale before as well.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure there is no velium in Everfrost <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Something as hard as stone would have an awful hard time "melting" into the water sources.  As far as the glowing goes, it's ICE and SNOW.  Of course it's going to be brighter than what you normally see.  Not to mention the grapic designers probably thought it would look really really cool to all the game players.  There just is no evidence that supports your theory of them being pale because of the velium in the area.<div></div><p>Message Edited by RaphaNissi on <span class=date_text>07-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:25 AM</span>

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">This is Glowing even underground  NOT reflecting. I think you give the aspect-godlings too much credit. From what I remember they used clever piles of snow to hide gaurd towers and such and while they have chalky skin tones they have normal hair colors. Frost giants are diffrent from Ice Giants. </font></font></font><div></div>

[KniteShayd]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zabjade wrote:<BR><FONT color=#66ff00><FONT size=2><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Humanoid adtaptation would go more increased bodyhair then shin tone change. Humans who live in those enviroment tend to have reddish skin due to sunburns cold. and the skin was an almost albino white but the hair colors were normal. It's not just the dwarves either the Giants and Orcs have the same washed out color with the orcs being a very light grey.<BR><BR>Humans(Example) absorb minerals from water drinken, Velium is a milky transparrent substance. the high content of the mineral in Velious meant that it was absormed into the body of the inhabitants. <BR><BR><STRONG><FONT color=#ff3399>Someone who takes too many silver supliments with have a blueish tinge to them. the same is likely to happen to magicly charged minerals.<BR></FONT></STRONG></FONT></FONT></FONT> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff3399></FONT></STRONG></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I wanna try that and see how blue i can make myself, lol. pehaps look a little Tier'Dal-ish, hehehe:smileytongue:<BR>

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">I'd consult a doctor before taking that much silver even if plant derived(Plants absorb a lot of minerals and are used with kilns for mining in certain areas) </font></font></font><div></div>

[RaphaNissi]

<div><blockquote><hr>Zabjade wrote:<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">This is Glowing even underground  NOT reflecting. I think you give the aspect-godlings too much credit. From what I remember they used clever piles of snow to hide gaurd towers and such and while they have chalky skin tones they have normal hair colors. Frost giants are diffrent from Ice Giants. </font></font></font><div></div><hr></blockquote>I never said they were the same, but the Frost Giants did come from Everfrost.The fertile homelands of the Giants (now known as Everfrost) were frozen, and those giants caught in the epicenter of the curse were transformed wholly into immortal creatures of living ice. Those nearby were struck to the core of their beings, becoming lesser creatures in mind and body than they had been. Those few who escaped the effects fled Tunaria for other lands, coming to the attention of Prexus the Oceanlord, who sent a great storm to destroy them. The storm drove many ships back to Tunaria and to Kunark, where the curse of The Rathe took hold to a lesser degree than in Everfrost. Many of the most powerful giants managed to escape the storm thanks to their great powers, and passed through the Frigid Barrier to land upon the Icy Fingers in Velious.The under ground stuff is filled with crystal.</div>

[Zabjade]

<blockquote><hr>RaphaNissi wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Zabjade wrote:<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">This is Glowing even underground  NOT reflecting. I think you give the aspect-godlings too much credit. From what I remember they used clever piles of snow to hide gaurd towers and such and while they have chalky skin tones they have normal hair colors. Frost giants are diffrent from Ice Giants. </font></font></font><div></div><hr></blockquote>I never said they were the same, but the Frost Giants did come from Everfrost.The fertile homelands of the Giants (now known as Everfrost) were frozen, and those giants caught in the epicenter of the curse were transformed wholly into immortal creatures of living ice. Those nearby were struck to the core of their beings, becoming lesser creatures in mind and body than they had been. Those few who escaped the effects fled Tunaria for other lands, coming to the attention of Prexus the Oceanlord, who sent a great storm to destroy them. The storm drove many ships back to Tunaria and to Kunark, where the curse of The Rathe took hold to a lesser degree than in Everfrost. Many of the most powerful giants managed to escape the storm thanks to their great powers, and passed through the Frigid Barrier to land upon the Icy Fingers in Velious.The under ground stuff is filled with crystal.</div><hr></blockquote><font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">Was refering to the river, it goes through some Wyvern Caves in the Great Divide (Follow the river from the water fall and you will find it.</font></font></font><div></div>

[RaphaNissi]

Your velium imbued theory just doesn't have evidence to support it.  The coldain are pale but the giants have a normal color of skin which can both be atrributed to the lack of sun exposure.  The giants have white hair while the dwarves have normal hair colors.  The wurms would drop glowing wurm bile.  Maybe their interaction with the waters made them "glow," though I still think it has more to do with the artists interpretation of what an ice land river would look like than from velium in the water.  <div></div>

[Tarkin-Wretch]

<DIV>your statement was neither posted as theory nor lore but the tone you set was it was based on fact nor theory.  thats neither here nor there.  what does this have to do with eq2 since there is no velious, to our knowledge anyways.  the color of dwarven and giant skin is more than likely due to them being fictional.  its similar to the arguement about skin color of the tier'dal's.  its quite possible their skin color is effected by the velium.  how would this effect fur and hair colors though?  i think trying to explain the color of the dwarven and giant skin being a result of the velium is a bit sceientific in a fantasy setting but even still that has nothing to do with why a gnoll's fur would be white.  a gnoll's fur would be white due to the climate not the water.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>im sure you wont want to here this but there is no beastlord and hopefully never will be.</DIV>

[Zabjade]

<font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font color="#66ff00">There is plenty sunlight in many frozen areas such as polar zones, where do you think Snowblindness comes from.<span> So I doubt cold has to do with their skin tone, in northen climates you have both caucasions(Nordics) and Eskimo's one a rather pale race the other a more bronze skinned race. This multiracial representation means it has little to do with adaptation.  :smileytongue: </span> The Teir'Dal were mysticly tortured for a long time and even broken down and rebuilt magicly during that time period. I didn't present it as a theory at first because that is not what I was asking about, I mentioned theory when someone derailed the topic. As for Velium, the Continent was all throughout the land it was in the rocks and it was in their water supply, also in the water supply of prey animals and in any plants that they may have harvested to eat, and minerals that have been in plant materials are often more easily absorbed into the body Velious was also the scource of the purest and most magical form of the mineral (I think that tidbit comes from Al'Akbar's research into the spires) Velium is most magical in very low temprature regions, also from that spire research. So it has more magical properties then the stuff found in Zekk (Jaggerpine Forrest) or the Enchanted lands. </font></font></font><div></div>