Swimwear

[Zabjade]

<div></div><font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">Ok I admit I'm desperate for an interesting topic, but in keeping in with this being hte Lore section. The three largest Human cities as well as Mara, so far  are either Port cities or a carpet ride away from  a port and even preshattering all three cities are coastal. Many have beaches of some kind, and swimming is a definate skill. Both rich and poor alike are likey to seek refuge from the heat in summer in the realitivly safer beaches near the cities. So what type of swimwear are, and in the past, the various races likely to wear, have worn on "public" beaches? Keep in mind that swimwear like the bikini was first depicted on ancient greep pottery. (Of course I might be asking to swimwear in the game <span>:smileywink:</span>  ) </font></font></font><div></div><p>Message Edited by Zabjade on <span class=date_text>06-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:08 AM</span>

[Troubor]

<P>Guess I just always pictured the less prudish races skinny dipping, more prudish ones leaving on some sort of undershirt...now which ones you wish to define as less and more prudish..well..<chuckles>..been up all night, so being lazy, but this could get fun.</P> <P>Okay, since the Ancient Greeks had bikini's apparently...which race(s) could you see also having such?  IMO High Elven, possibly Tier'Dal..I would see the wood elves just skinny dipping...more in line with Tunare to go "au natural" IMO maybe.</P> <P>addendum:  Okay..in a way, didn't think of this, but asking which races/cultures might have a nudity taboo.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Arvig on <span class=date_text>06-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:13 AM</span>

[Ryoko Hakubi]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Arvig wrote:<BR> <P>since the Ancient Greeks had bikini's apparently...which race(s) could you see also having such?  IMO High Elven, possibly Tier'Dal..<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR><EM>Possibly</EM> Teir'Dal? Must not have played EQ1. Inkie chicks ran around in red bikinis all the time. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV>

[Troubor]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ryoko Hakubi wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Arvig wrote:<BR> <P>since the Ancient Greeks had bikini's apparently...which race(s) could you see also having such?  IMO High Elven, possibly Tier'Dal..<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR><EM>Possibly</EM> Teir'Dal? Must not have played EQ1. Inkie chicks ran around in red bikinis all the time. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Nope, just EQ2...first MMO in fact.</P> <P>Okay, got to ask.  Anyone have an old Screencap of the Tier'Dal Swimsuit Issue?</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>I want the wood elf females to start wearing that green one piece they all wore back in EQlive again.</DIV>

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">Well Iksar and Froglock are likely to be topless on both sexes froglocks amonst themselfs are likely nudest at the beach (Frog sex is basicly female laying eggs and male fertalizing later so it is likely their mating time as well, romantic huh?) In public settngs  they might have a bikini bottoms with some artistic hologram to draw attention to the chest (something better looking then MoA) in the case of Reptile and Amphibian it is to draw attention to the fact that they have healthy musculatures? Furries Kerra/Vah Shir, Ratonga/Roellik[sp], Dwarves probably go in for  heavy leather loincloth style.<span>:smileywink: Any Dev Comments on this? </span></font></font></font><div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zabjade wrote:<BR><FONT color=#66ff00><FONT size=2><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Well Iksar and Froglock are likely to be topless on both sexes froglocks amonst themselfs are likely nudest at the beach (Frog sex is basicly female laying eggs and male fertalizing later so it is likely their mating time as well, romantic huh?)<BR><BR>In public settngs  they might have a bikini bottoms with some artistic hologram to draw attention to the chest (something better looking then MoA) in the case of Reptile and Amphibian it is to draw attention to the fact that they have healthy musculatures?<BR><BR>Furries Kerra/Vah Shir, Ratonga/Roellik[sp], Dwarves probably go in for  heavy leather loincloth style.<SPAN>:smileywink:<BR><BR>Any Dev Comments on this?<BR></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Even in EQlive, the female frogloks wear a small Slip on thier chests. the female iksar, however, were topless because there's nothing to show anyway.<p>Message Edited by Cusashorn on <span class=date_text>06-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:08 PM</span>

[Nocturnal Aby]

<P>Aye, both iksar and froglok females can freely go topless, if for no other fact, than that neither race has mamary glans (ie, breasts).  [Removed for Content] are a primarily human trait.  Frogloks hatch from their gooey eggs as tadpoles (Ahhh, the fun times I had with my trolls smushing froglok tads), and iksar most like latch from their eggs, as miniature adults, sorta like crocodiles, turtles, lizards, and most other reptiles.</P> <P> </P> <P>Since someone asked:  "Less inhibited" races probably include trolls (too stupid to care), and any number of the other races, since modesty and decency vary on the individual, just like they do irl.  It would also probably vary on the financial situation of the individual.  Why spend money on a useless peice of cloth, when you can use it to buy a stronger weapon, or sturdier peice of armor.  True, some races, like the afore mention high elves, migh have more sociatal tendencies towards modesty, but, in general, swimwear would mostly be a fashion statement, as it would be much easier to simply wear some cloth or leather undergarment to swim in (And trust me, there are undergarments!  metal would chafe something feirce against bare skin, and no man would risk getting something pinched "down there" as two different plates slide over each other.)  I would guess more conservative races would be high elves, upper class dark elves, erudites, and upper class humans.  Everyone else probably wouldn't care, for one reason or another.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">I do wonder how this would happen for MIXED  beaches. </font></font></font><div></div>

[snowfleck]

As every Norrathian beach I can currently bring to mind is infested with giant crabs, and the water full of sirens, drowned undead and aggressive octopi and barracuda, I would have thought the best beachwear would be full plate. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">No just the lifegaurds, I was refering to beaches in city limits like near the docks etc. (You realize that the docks are likely larger the represented in game and usually have between 2 to 6 ships in port daily and usually one or two under construction in Qeynos harbor) Hmm Maj'Dul needs somw wharehouses near theur docks for added realism. </font></font></font><div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Rule of Anime and Gaming: The less clothing a female is wearing, the more impervious to damage and the elements they become. An almost naked woman is nearly invulnerable.</DIV>

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">Hehehe it's called the Distraction factor! it doesn't work in cat fights however. although most fighting around them will stopp and the wagering will begin, with a cut for the winner of course. </font></font></font><div></div>

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">I wonder if they will ever make a "Vacation Destination" Adventure pack and have quested Swimming Suits? <font color="#000000">Vhalen</font> </font></font></font><div></div>

[nodaisho]

<DIV>Is this what mainly goes on in history and lore? I need to drop in here more often...</DIV>

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">Only during summer <span>:smileywink:</span> during winter we wonder about the snowbunny factor. <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> Seriously, we are all really lore nuts either becauise we want to know something that no one else bothers to care about, We notice the changes from EQ1 to EQ2,  or we want our facts more or less strait if we decide to do fanfiction. </font></font></font><div></div>

[Zabjade]

<div></div><div></div><font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">I can only go around and around in circles about which god is [Removed for Content] out for worshipers so much. Mostly out of boredom I'm bumping this thread with an image of my monk in swimwear.  You have to admit that in an area with little to no Air conditioning (gnomish inventions non-withstanding) that there has to be well guarded easy to get to for lawful citizens of cities swimming areas. For some odd reason the forbidden isles where she has been sunbathing seems to have become a special inforcement zone for the Qeynos Guard, the Undead and Klik's are in hiding. <span>:smileywink:</span> <img src="http://www.gower.net/sdragan/NuMoon/klornie4.jpg"> </font></font></font><div></div><p>Message Edited by Zabjade on <span class="date_text">07-21-2006</span> <span class="time_text">11:01 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Zabjade on <span class=date_text>07-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:01 PM</span>

[Desdichada]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <P>Okay, since the Ancient Greeks had bikini's apparently...which race(s) could you see also having such?  </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Parallels with Earth history would not make most here happy... :smileytongue:  Ancient Greeks did not have bikini. Bikini were invented in late 1950-s. Early 20th century saw only full body (knees to elbows) swim suits.  Short underwear is also a late 19-th century invention. Medieval times would see bathing with underwear or night gowns on. </P> <P> </P>

[Zabjade]

<div></div><font color="#66ff00"><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2">That's the Modern <b>Reinvention and Renaming</b> of the Bikini, I remembering reading in some fun facts book oh 20+ years ago that they had pictures of wemon wearing leather versions of garmets in the pattern now used for the most basic bikini. Might be more Roman then Greek (They were more nudist) The Beach has always been a draw on humanoid races, and with it a relaxing of certain dress attitudes (Victorian to early 20th centurty era's prudeness aside) <a href="http://www.personal.psu.edu/wxk116/romball.html" target="_blank">This page</a> has a pictorial ref about 2/3'd the way down. NM here are some images. <img src="http://www.personal.psu.edu/wxk116/bikinit.gif"> <img src="http://www.personal.psu.edu/wxk116/bikinib.gif"> <a href="http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:Ml_jXDGTEQ0J:archaeology.stanford.e du/MountPolizzo/handbookPDF/MPHandbook5.pdf+greek+archeology+bikini+image+pott ery&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=6" target=_blank> This Search Page</a> also contains refences a little pas halfway down (long page so use  you might have to hunt for it unless you have the color coding that I seem to have on the page.) </font></font><div></div><p>Message Edited by Zabjade on <span class=date_text>07-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:53 AM</span>

[TorturedOne21]

<P>Zabjade, Please make the distinction between Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome. They were two different cultures with two different approaches to modesty. The combining of the two cultures didn't occur until the late 2nd century BC, which was long after the Classical and Hellenistic Greek periods. Your website is primarily a Roman one, with only passing references to Greek and Egyptian cultures, but with nothing of pertinence regarding their dress.</P> <P>It should be known that the Romans were put off by the Greeks immodesty, one famous Roman historian (Plutarch, I believe) recalls the Spartan Women's prefered dress: the thigh-flashers. It was likely that the word thigh was a euphemism, because the Spartan Women A: wore skirts that only extended to about mid-thigh B: did not wear underwear and C: liked to wrestle.</P> <P>It should also be known that Roman reluctance towards nudity defines most, if not nearly all, of western values regarding nudity. Greeks exercised nude, bathed nude, and even played sports nude. In Japan, it was not unknown for the entire family to bathe together nude. I'm going to go out on a (rather strong) limb here and assume that everyone here (myself included) would be revolted at the sight of our parents naked. Ancient Egyptians regarded clothing as a status symbol, with the lowest classes only wearing a loincloth, while the richest wearing more opulent clothing. Concerning the Egyptians, they did not view a woman's exposed breasts as taboo, thus it was not unthinkable for a woman to have clothing that left them exposed.</P> <P>In relationship to Everquest, the task becomes defining Norrathian culture, then discerning cultural values of modesty.</P> <P>And with that being said,  in terms of values and culture, Norrathians are clearly modern westerners. Tolerances for other races, liberty, freedom of religious expression, similar values regarding beauty. No matter how you look at it, there is no way this game is based upon anything even remotely historical, save for superficial values such as armor design and architecture.</P> <P>In some regard it had to happen; I couldn't imagine a multiplayer game where a female toon could walk around with their breasts exposed would sit very well in our society. Or a game where sports minigames caused your toons to become completely naked.</P> <P>That being said, Norrathian patterns of swimwear and beachwear probably mirror our own. While there is no nylon or spandex, there is cloth, which is probably used to make an assortment of one and two piece bathing suits. Men probably wear trunks or other similarly styled clothing, as it is ok for them to have a bear chest, but not bear genitals. Same with women, as demonstrated by Queen Antonia; it is ok to show anything but genitals and breasts. </P>

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">I didn't differentiate because I wasn't sure. I was half asleep at the time so I didn't check, beside it was a moot point in the end, other then the fact that the garment idea existed before the middle/dark ages. Lets see natural products on Norrath for construction of swimwear. Leather, canvas like cloth, natural rubber (if they have rubber trees eqv. possibly in the Feerrot), Giant spider Silk, and the more expsnsive Drachnid Silk (I think that is what Driders are called in EQ) some races might just use distracting illusions. </font></font></font><div></div>

[Dregor]

This thread is creepy.<div></div>

[TerraAki]

<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Ohh...nice picture there, Zabjade. *clicks and saves*</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Anyways, I believe that humans in Norrath have the same opinions on modesty as we on Earth: completely varying ones. Other races would probably have a more or less same outlook.</FONT></DIV>

[Zabjade]

<blockquote><hr>Dregor wrote:This thread is creepy.<div></div><hr></blockquote><font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">Swimwear and likely beach customs are creapy???  O_o I do not see the connection. Note to self, need to do up a better pic sometime when time permits. </font></font></font><div></div>

[Dregor]

<div><blockquote><hr>Zabjade wrote:<blockquote><hr>Dregor wrote:This thread is creepy.<div></div><hr></blockquote><font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">Swimwear and likely beach customs are creapy???  O_o I do not see the connection. Note to self, need to do up a better pic sometime when time permits. </font></font></font><div></div><hr></blockquote>It makes me feel <font color="#ccff00">ooky</font></div>

[Zabjade]

<blockquote><hr>Dregor wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Zabjade wrote:<blockquote><hr>Dregor wrote:This thread is creepy.<div></div><hr></blockquote><font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">Swimwear and likely beach customs are creapy???  O_o I do not see the connection. Note to self, need to do up a better pic sometime when time permits. </font></font></font><div></div><hr></blockquote>It makes me feel <font color="#ccff00">ooky</font></div><hr></blockquote><font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">I still don't see the connection, lol.  The beach makes you feel ooky?  Ooookay</font></font></font><div></div>

[kyrr]

Perfect example on this thread about the varying levels of modesty and what is socially acceptable. BTW if we wanted to be accurate my cat and rat would have multiple breasts as the animals do in RL, obviously they don't. I don't see why we need swimsuits, but I do advocate more varied styles in the "fluff" clothes (styles operative word there, not colors!!).   :smileywink:

[Dregor]

I won't go into it further because I don't want to be moderated for insulting someone.<div></div>

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">Hmmm perhaps some guild level rewards would be access to "Vacation Zones" and alllowing hob nobbing with the powerful for exclusive questlines....and guild swimwear. </font></font></font><div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>dont count on it Zab...</DIV>

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2">I never do, I high schooled in the Show-Me State. My last post was tongue-in-cheek.<span>:smileywink:</span> Still it would be fun, and would encourage guild level raising.</font></font><div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>hehehe.</DIV>

[Zabjade]

<blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div>hehehe.</div><hr></blockquote><font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">Oh my Gosh! I got Cusashorn to laugh!!! <span>:smileysurprised:</span> <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span></font></font></font><div></div>

[TorturedOne21]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dregor wrote:<BR>I won't go into it further because I don't want to be moderated for insulting someone.<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>then stop trolling it on a regular basis! Jeesh, quit with the inane immaturity and the half-threats. We're having a perfectly reasonable, intelligent conversation about cross race modesty conflicts as highlighted by swimwear. If that is too much for you to handle, I would suggest moving on to another thread and ignoring this one

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2">Ahh, so that is what he is trying to do. I did notice he or she used a term I used in the godling thread. Anyway, I think most races might use a variation of shorts and bikini or racerback designs. Iksars and Frogloks either use just a bottom or go naked even in public situations.  </font></font><div></div>