Why Qeynos building codes regulations don’t allow indoor bathrooms? [Archive]

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Valeirie

06-24-2006, 03:32 AM

<DIV> Hey, folks, that question had been plaguing my mind for a while. Why none of Qeynos buildings seem to include indoor bathrooms? When I first entered my inn room fresh from the Isle and discovered there is no bathroom, I was totally shocked. Well, while (*giggles*) bath/sink facilities might indeed be unnecessary in certain parts of Qeynos like Baubbleshire *giggles again*, why, oh why at least the toilets are not included??? I don't understand it - Qeynos prides itself on being the capital, yet it's citizens have to do it like the bears in the woods? How strange. No wonder the city streets are so dirty. Not to mention how horribly unsanitary the lack of private bathrooms is, it also puts the adventurers lives in unnecessary danger. The other day I was almost startled to death by a mature bear cub who sneaked up on me and growled in my face while I was concentrating on other…. hghgm… urgent issues. Good thing my rawhide leggings were already pulled down, otherwise I would be faced with quite a of laundry to do *chuckles* I was trying to ask my dwarven innkeeper about the reasons for this bizarre phenomenon but she could not tell me much except that Queen had established the building codes years ago. And those regulations don't include bathrooms in standard architectural blueprints. I swear, I was willing to move to Freeport on a spot, for a sole reason of having the luxury of indoor plumbing again *sighs*. It is so unfair, Antonia Bayle herself is enjoying all those nice facilities in the palace with like 27 types of chamber pots while she leaves us nothing but the bushes. I bet she DOES NOT have to run to Oakmyst every time nature calls… though hmmmm….what do I know…..if you do happen to spot a squatting queen in the Oakmyst please notify me so I could apologize to her for rushing to unfair conclusions. *laughs* So does anybody else have any ideas? What's up with the whole thing of the bathroom-free housing in Qeynos? ((OOC: Any explanation from the lore point of view? Perhaps there is some history behind it?))</DIV>

Dynn The Mo

06-24-2006, 03:35 AM

1 word: Fountains.<div></div>

Valeirie

06-24-2006, 03:44 AM

Norrathian wisdom : "Never eat yellow snow in Everfrost and never drink out of a public fountain in Qeynos" :smileyvery-happy:

Cusashorn

06-24-2006, 05:25 AM

<DIV>FYI: Freeport doesn't have any either.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only toilet you'll find in the game is found in Stormhold.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This kind of thing is just all around taboo when it comes to American-made video games.</DIV>

CuddlingWo

06-24-2006, 08:56 AM

What about the Sims?<div></div>

Troubor

06-24-2006, 08:58 AM

<chuckles> Chamber pots. Simply put, one had a ceramic pot..erm..filled it, tossed the contents out the window. Believe me, sanitation as we know it is a pretty modern concept.

Valeirie

06-24-2006, 10:18 AM

<DIV> Maybe for other races in Norrath the idea of sanitation is new (to some of them it remains a foreign concept even to that day). But we Koada'Dal were enjoying the flush toilets back when human tribes clad in fur were still living in the caves. Oh, the same thing happens in Freeport? *sulks* Oh, no! :smileysad: All my dreams of getting some degree of personal comfort had been cruelly mauled. Looks like it is a nationwide problem that has to be addressed. ((OOC: Though I strongly doubt it would ever be actually addressed or implemented in a game….game designers would have a heart attack before they agree to put a status bar indicating character's bathrooms needs :smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy: Would be hilarious....imagine all the possibilities! Though AFK breaks would certainly be RPed extremely natural in that case <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )) </DIV>

Zabjade

06-24-2006, 02:05 PM

<blockquote><hr>Arvig wrote:<div></div> <chuckles> Chamber pots. Simply put, one had a ceramic pot..erm..filled it, tossed the contents out the window. Believe me, sanitation as we know it is a pretty modern concept.<hr></blockquote>True, BUT since there are fountains and sewers, which are the rudiments of plumbing, why hasn't some enterprizing Gnome crafted the "Flush-o-matic 5000" and whay hasn't some neat-freak Erudian come up with an "Erudian Hygenic Sphere" Would love baths that you can actually sit in and showers(waterfall type) not to mention Fireplaces! <div></div>

Indy_Mouse_9

06-24-2006, 09:57 PM

I was thinking I heard stories of communal (sp?) bathhouses. Large buildings where citizens of a city could go for free or a small fee (Peculia non odet, after all) to have baths, and, most importantly, ehm, relieve themselves.Then it struck me. South Qeynos: the Hall of Thunder (who knows what bowel movements some people have, so aptly named, I think) Conveniently located above the moat, and with a personal entrance for people from the castle.However, the place is "Closed by order of Queen Antonia"...<div></div>

Thax

06-25-2006, 01:19 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Indy_Mouse_9 wrote: I was thinking I heard stories of communal (sp?) bathhouses. Large buildings where citizens of a city could go for free or a small fee (Peculia non odet, after all) to have baths, and, most importantly, ehm, relieve themselves. Then it struck me. South Qeynos: the Hall of Thunder (who knows what bowel movements some people have, so aptly named, I think) Conveniently located above the moat, and with a personal entrance for people from the castle. However, the place is "Closed by order of Queen Antonia"... <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Probably because the Knights of Thunder had an illegal bathroom. The true reason for the move to Stormhold is revealed!

Valeirie

06-25-2006, 07:02 AM

Quote: "the Hall of Thunder.... so aptly named, I think...." That was priceless!!! ROFLMAO:smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy: I am sure communal bathhouses existed before, because both cities have an elaborate maze of sewers underneath each neighborhood. Too bad at the present time they are nothing more than a breeding ground for spiders and rats. We had rebuilt the Griffon Towers, then the Spires....perhaps rebuilding Down Below is the next thing coming?:smileyhappy:

Mary the Prophetess

06-25-2006, 08:32 AM

Do we really want that degree of realism?!! Not I.

CuddlingWo

06-25-2006, 08:59 AM

Are you kidding me? In a game where drinking blurs your vision... why shouldn't you have to give in to the biological needs of your character. I think you should grow weak if you don't eat and drink. I also think that when your character has been running around Norrath for too [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] long, you should start to drop in stats until you take him to the inn room and log him out for a few hours (something like vitality, but even more reallistic). Quite frankly, I don't think they could possibly take the realism too far...However, I understand that would probably [Removed for Content] off gamers, the same way it [Removed for Content] them off when they couldnt understand one another when they made toons on EQ1 on the Firiona Vie server. I was an appy guide on that server early in its launch, and we got constant complaints about the lack of a common language.Personally I think a common language is reallistic, and not reallistic at the same time. Maybe one day, if enough people request it and SOE can find a cost efficient way of doing it, they can make a special version of EQ2 for hardcore RPers who want more realism. All the ideas and feedback about making it a more realistic game for RPers could be implemented on a special server, with more enforced rules. Quite frankly, I for one was very disapointed that Lucan D'lere and Antonia Bayle seem to be in all intents and purposes, regular servers. At least I would like to see the GMs there enforce the naming and channel usage policies more. Or perhaps run more events. We are taking efforts, but the players shouldnt have to make it an RP server... Draxehn<div></div>

Zabjade

06-25-2006, 09:21 AM

<DIV></DIV> For Qeynos: they should have a natureal hotsprings with some modifications to be a Public bath (if you don't take baths Cha rating will go down :smileyvery-happy: of course that means that they need to add the stat to the game like it was in EQ1) Elddar grove or North Qeynos would work. For Freeport: a Roman style bathhouse with Qeynosian slaves keeping the fires going to keep the water hot. Little used South Freeport would be good. Maj'Dul: A Turkish bathhouse (Mostly steam with a cold water area) Instance Zone below the Peacock Club? Haven: Public Old west baths likely cold unless you pay for the hot water. Kelethin wooden hot tubs heated by magic(so as not to burn down the city) instance zone atm. lets let some adv Pack zones in on it as well! Splitpaw: a large natural cavern connected to an underground hotsprings with glowing crystals providing light. Shin: Japanese style Bathhouse!

Mary the Prophetess

06-25-2006, 01:29 PM

Well, if you want to carry the realism arguement further; There should be permanent death. There should be no static spawns of Mobs. There should only be a single instance of all named MOBs. Weapons of legend should be only one of a kind. Characters should be required to spend 6-8 game-hours camped so that they can sleep. Characters should age and die. I could go on and on and on, and some realism, (such as bodily functions), is just down right distasteful. I am currently also playing another MMORPG; (Dark and Light). Their world is huge, perhaps 20 -30 times as large as EQ2. They have migrating spawns, and MOBS of all level ranges are mixed in together. There are seasonal changes of weather, where the weather can actually harm, (even kill), players. You can climb mountains, (but you can't be hurt by falling, or swim underwater, or drown /shrugs--go figure). Food consumption, or lack of it, has a much greater effect on players, even to the point where if without food your health and mana cannot regenerate at all; in effect starving to death or dying of thirst. Weapons and armor need constant repair, and will be totally destroyed by use rather quickly, and it is a long, long way to get back to somewhere to repair them. The pantheon of their gods demands sacrifices, especially for any transgressions against them. If your diety faction is too far into the negative, then all the previously non-aggro MOBs under that god's influence, will now aggro you, and villagers will not deal with you. Better not need food or weapons repaired! Many elements you might find attractive; at least at first glance. However, the demands of realism are such that most time is spent just wandering on foot through a vast, dangerous and largely empty expanse of terrain trying to survive and find the necessities of life. Great realism you say? Well consider an average three hour gaming session: Spend three hours on line, and walk to the next village, (perhaps a bit further), and find (maybe) half a dozen MOBS that are of your level and not protected by your diety, to hunt. Three hours of mostly walking, losing your chest plate to damage, and having to replace it at the next balcksmith (IF the next village even has one or will sell to you!) and making the amazing total of about 2% advancement in experience. But you could get lucky, and find a migrating herd of elk; plenty of MOBs, all the right level range and diety alignment--GREAT!! You can go up half a level--maybe more, before the herd is killed off (if they don't kill you first--or the pack of wolves that is following them doesn't find you). But if you log off, when you log in the next time they will have moved on, and you are just back in the middle of a huge empty woods. Realistic? Perhaps a bit more. But fun? playable? practical? Not so much. Are you sure you want EQ2 to be like that?! [Oh, and just to be clear, I am not recommending this game to anyone--It is perhaps the most broken, bug-ridden MMORPG ever to be released. If it survives 3 months I will be suprised] (Did I mention that it's mostly an open PvP world too?) Message Edited by Mary the Prophetess on 06-25-2006 04:21 AM

CuddlingWo

06-25-2006, 02:40 PM

Should EQ2 be like that? Hell no... its probably bug-ridden because noone pays to play it so they can't afford to fix the bugs!!!Would I like to see a LOT of those things implemented in a special server on EQ2? HELL YES!!! Quite frankly, I would love for it to be that much of a pain in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]... and YES that IS reallistic. I don't like all of the ideas quite frankly, in fact a few of them would annoy the [Removed for Content] out of me. But most of them, I like.As for the bathroom breaks... again I point to the Sims.. Noone flocked to the streets with cries about how it was distasteful. It was a life simulation.. you have to take the time to eat and pee.. when you don't go to the bathroom when you need to, you pee all over yourself and your hygiene gets bad and you have to take a shower. I don't find that distasteful at all!!!!Now, the fact that you can have your sim-daughter grow up and have sex with her uncle... while reallistic, is distasteful, so I do believe there should be lines drawn.I hate spawn points for mobs... I hate killing the same mob over and over again... and yes, I hate that you get magically "respawned" with little-to-no punishment. At least in EQ1 you had to go get your stuff... corpse runs were great! I miss corpse runs! Especially on my rogue when I died deep in mistmoore where a corpse run meant an hour or more of crawling along in sneak mode, dodging the more alert mobs who would see me... or worse... having to sit there and time their movements to dive between them as they roamed.Yes, legendary weapons should be single spawns. Named mobs should be one-time kills. Quests should be a one-time thing. When you get a new broom for that kerran in nettleville hovel.. she HAS A BROOM.. why should the next player who says hi to her have to bring her another one?Of course, this brings up some programming questions. Who is going to sit there and create 1000 new quests every day as the players solve the existing quests? Who is going to rename all the mobs? I do think they could take the time to make tons of variations of weapons with similar stats but different names and quests to get them, at least for the major legendary weapons that the average player will never get anyways. My solution, is doing what we are already doing now. Doing what we did on EQ1 and Ultima Online, and in every other MMORPG. Sony does not have the manpower to truely make it a dynamic world with constant world-changing events and big massive storylines..... So why don't we do that?On Lucan D'lere.. occasionally.. a rag-tag raiding party of elite gnolls will invade the city of Qeynos, running around causing terror, attacking people and stealing things until they are driven out by an alliance of Qeynosians protecting their city. I know this... because I am usually the head gnoll. There is usually about 6 of us either under an illusionist's group spell, or better yet, using things like petrified eyes. We even make macros of the things gnolls often say. When players want to attack us, we prefer they use /em attacks rather than /duel... that way they can gang up on us as if we were NPCs. We also do it in Freeport as a raiding party of orcs..We are planning more complex events... old EQ1 GM-style events where we pretend to be NPCs with scripted macros and everything, responding to /hails with a quest we assign to those who seek us out (after announcing the event to the zone). Most of these events will require people to work together, and have them running around all over the shattered lands, and we will probably target certain level ranges (telling those too young that we dont think they are strong enough for our task, and those too high that we certainly could not take their time from more difficult things that need to be done). The rewards are small, mostly it is just a chance to be a part of a unique event... a more dynamic world...Then, there is the Message of Unity storyline we have been running for about a month now. It is a lore-based storyline, that will not, in the end, directly affect the lore in any way. In the EQ world, this event passes by without changing anything directly. But for those involved, it is a major event affecting a lot of people in a lot of ways. Since so many characters know about it and talk about it... it is like it is a world event... yet you can actually take part in it and change the events as they occur. It is very much dynamic, and everything that occurs is a result of the players interactions with the background we have set up... NOT a series of scripted events.I think EQ2 gives us a great background, and while there are some things I wish we could change... as Role Players, we can take efforts to make it a more dynamic world by doing more large-scale events. That's the idea of what we are trying to do on Lucan D'lere at least.Draxehn<div></div>

Mary the Prophetess

06-25-2006, 02:52 PM

Well, one other feature in that game is that MOBS level up from killing players too. They don't loot players though, though that would be a nice touch too. EQ2 DOES keep a record of which MOBS have the most kills before they are killed and respawn with the same name and type, It shouldn't be too hard to let them gain experience when they do. <A href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/player_swrankings_detailed.vm?action=CharacterAgg. getNPCMostKillsRankSwide&type=NPCThatHasMadeTheMostKills" target=_blank>http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/player_swrankings_detailed.vm?action=CharacterAgg. getNPCMostKillsRankSwide&type=NPCThatHasMadeTheMostKills</A> Would that give Chel'Drak the Ancient Lord The title "Hunter of Humans"? I do see a potential problem though; Where are MOBS most likely to get the most kills?--In newbie areas. What would be the consequences of a 25th level Orc Pawn running amok in the newbie area? EQ1 tried something similar once; You could elect to play a MOB (in certain zones). You started as like a first level Gnoll, for instance, and could attack players. You had no weapons, and could not loot or communicate, and when you died, you started over as a first level Gnoll again. It was a lot of fun. They only kept it in for a couple of weeks, and then junked the idea. I'm not sure why. I once saw a couple of players train two Ice Giants into the Everfrost newbie area in EQ1. One drew off the guards, and the other trained the Giants in from the Permafrost area. Gawd, what a slaughter. Message Edited by Mary the Prophetess on 06-25-2006 05:34 AM

Troubor

06-25-2006, 02:56 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CuddlingWolf wrote: Are you kidding me? In a game where drinking blurs your vision... why shouldn't you have to give in to the biological needs of your character. I think you should grow weak if you don't eat and drink. I also think that when your character has been running around Norrath for too [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] long, you should start to drop in stats until you take him to the inn room and log him out for a few hours (something like vitality, but even more reallistic). Quite frankly, I don't think they could possibly take the realism too far... However, I understand that would probably [Removed for Content] off gamers, the same way it [Removed for Content] them off when they couldnt understand one another when they made toons on EQ1 on the Firiona Vie server. I was an appy guide on that server early in its launch, and we got constant complaints about the lack of a common language. Personally I think a common language is reallistic, and not reallistic at the same time. Maybe one day, if enough people request it and SOE can find a cost efficient way of doing it, they can make a special version of EQ2 for hardcore RPers who want more realism. All the ideas and feedback about making it a more realistic game for RPers could be implemented on a special server, with more enforced rules. Quite frankly, I for one was very disapointed that Lucan D'lere and Antonia Bayle seem to be in all intents and purposes, regular servers. At least I would like to see the GMs there enforce the naming and channel usage policies more. Or perhaps run more events. We are taking efforts, but the players shouldnt have to make it an RP server... Draxehn <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> At what point does the "realism" no longer become practical though? People play to escape reality. Having to perform every biological function IMO isn't going to be fun, nor is it truly roleplaying, other then trying to force people to roleplay every tiny detail, like it or not. Or to put it another way...okay, /shout is meant for IC/RP interaction. But realistically, can one shout across a small continent like Antonica and expect to be heard? Most guilds with some level of roleplaying have /guildchat be in character. Yet...when you think about it, how is it in character? I can be in let's say the new adventure pack area, the Isle of Mara, while one guild mate is in South Qeynos, a third wandering Lavastorm, yet we're all IC as if we're in the same room. Yes, one can claim some telepathy, be it an innate ability or via some magical device to do so, but my point is this...there are some consessions to realism, in order to make the game more practical on a playable basis. As for Lucan d'Lere & AB being "regular servers"..well, you can't put a proverbial gun to people's head and scream ROLEPLAY. And why shouldn't the players help to keep it an RP server? The players define the community. Without the players helping to keep roleplay alive via various player sponsered and ran events, adlib or scripted (with myself very stronly preferring adlib, but I digress), then it's just a tag with no meaning to say that "Lucan d'Lere is a RP Preferred server". I don't want GM intervention on insisting I roleplay all the time. That would be intrusive and unwelcome, with many including I would suspect a large number of hardcore roleplayers. As for following the naming conventions...I do follow a "live and let live" policy. Unless a name is IMO vulgar, or possibly a copyright violation I recognize, I basically don't report it, even if something very outside the setting like "Ghettobooty", to give an example. My mind can work around such, has the imagination to work around it, and "ignore" a name that isn't fitting for the setting. Simply put, there very much comes a time when it goes too far to enforce the rules, and even if following them to the literal letter, one can cross the line from simply trying to help enforce them, to harassment. In conclusion, perople should be allowed to roleplay at a level they are comfortable with, even on a RP preferred server. And even on one that's just marked RP, if you wish to try and debate that they are RP servers now, not RP preferred. To state otherwise is an attempt to force roleplay, and to force someone else to play how you want, not how they want. As long as their play isn't infringing on your own, and no I don't consider a non-RP name to be infringing on my play, live and let live. If their play does infringe, /report and /petition once, then move on, then forget the incident, no need to try to rally others to also /petition them unless they were directly involved with the same specific incident. Even then, their choice if they want to bother to /report & petition them. Remember, it's a game, not a lifestyle. Others are paying their montly fee to play too..isn't it good to respect that? Anyway, I'm derailing the thread for the most part with this post. As I said before, I pretty much figure they are using chamber pots. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Indy_Mouse_9

06-25-2006, 04:52 PM

<div></div>Chamberpots still seem a rather disgusting notion to me though :/ But oh well, better then out in the wild, I guess.Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want a 'toilet-break' bar implemented. It isn't realistic that my char runs around for Norrathian weeks on end without needing sleep, so I can put up with not going to the toilet.But it would be nice if there were a bath-house somewhere in the city. Just to show we aren't a bunch of (smelly) wild people thrown together, who pee in the fountains and empty their bowels in the gutter. Just for looks... Just so I know that when I wanted too, I could go to the bathhouse for a thorough soaking instead of having to rely on my home-build sanetary equipment <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="http://ilonka.isdebaas.nl/Everquest2/Toilet.jpg"><img src="http://ilonka.isdebaas.nl/Everquest2/Bathtub.jpg"><img src="http://ilonka.isdebaas.nl/Everquest2/sauna.jpg">It could be great! Just imagine:A grand building, mainly marble on the inside. There would be steamrooms, maybe with some of our favorite citizens inside enjoying the relaxation. The moisture slowly dripping off the walls while the thick steam made it hard to see who else was in the room. Then there would be baths, hot at the one side where they pumped in the hot water but cooler near the steps. Laundry people walking around making sure there were enough clean towels for everyone.Maybe, just maybe, there would be small rooms with masseurs waiting for people who want to enjoy their services.And, ofc, there would be toilets, maybe just one big room like I think I heard Romans had, or little stalls with clicky doors for everyone's privacy (and maybe someone who forgot to lock their door who will start yelling at you when you open it? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)Ah, I can see it all before me <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>Message Edited by Indy_Mouse_9 on 06-25-2006 03:00 PM

Zabjade

06-25-2006, 04:59 PM

Adding limited realism is fun but taking it to the extreme would bite into playability. Besides Bathhouses could be social places, and comodes would add to both the carpenter's recipies and to making the world more imersive. While I wouldn't want my character to have to sleep every time a game day turns a fatiuge meter might be interesting. but I would test it first on an RP server. <div></div>

CuddlingWo

06-25-2006, 10:12 PM

Troubor.. I can't even remember how many times I told you this.. you know I stopped posting on the Lucan forums because of people like you twisting my words around and bashing me for things I was not saying.I don't want to force anyone to RP.Someone, please, if you must quote me.. quote me saying that.. since Ive said it a thousand times and people still tell me im trying to force people to RP and that I walk around talking abou that.What I want.. is for the channels to be used properly.. and for people to be able to RP out in the open, anywhere they want, without having someone tell them they are disrupting their gaming experience.My only argument is... that if RPing disrupts your gaming experience, and you don't want to see it... why oh why did you choose an RP server? Im NOT saying people have to RP and im NOT saying anyone has to RP my way Troubor.. so stop attacking me for something I have never once in my entire life said!!! But.. I do think it is wrong for someone to tell an RPer to take it to tells, or to go to a player house bar instead of RPing in the in-game taverns like the Lion's Mane. And yes, for those of you on Antonia Bayle who do it all the time.. on Lucan D'lere.. there are people who yell at us for using /em and /say too much in the in-game tarverns.. because it "disrupts" them when they are there trying to do quests...Again.. my only argument.. is that if RPing actually disrupts your gaming experience.. then you have no right to complain if you chose an RP server in the first place. As for the naming thing.. Ghettobootay got petitioned by me for one reason... she was a (its gonna be deleted so I wont bother typing it) when I asked her about her last name.. and tried to argue that it was a lore-accurate in-character nickname, not a real world reference. I petitioned her... for being an idiot.... not a rules violator.Draxehn<div></div>

Troubor

06-26-2006, 02:57 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CuddlingWolf wrote: Troubor.. I can't even remember how many times I told you this.. you know I stopped posting on the Lucan forums because of people like you twisting my words around and bashing me for things I was not saying. I don't want to force anyone to RP. Someone, please, if you must quote me.. quote me saying that.. since Ive said it a thousand times and people still tell me im trying to force people to RP and that I walk around talking abou that. What I want.. is for the channels to be used properly.. and for people to be able to RP out in the open, anywhere they want, without having someone tell them they are disrupting their gaming experience. My only argument is... that if RPing disrupts your gaming experience, and you don't want to see it... why oh why did you choose an RP server? Im NOT saying people have to RP and im NOT saying anyone has to RP my way Troubor.. so stop attacking me for something I have never once in my entire life said!!! But.. I do think it is wrong for someone to tell an RPer to take it to tells, or to go to a player house bar instead of RPing in the in-game taverns like the Lion's Mane. And yes, for those of you on Antonia Bayle who do it all the time.. on Lucan D'lere.. there are people who yell at us for using /em and /say too much in the in-game tarverns.. because it "disrupts" them when they are there trying to do quests... Again.. my only argument.. is that if RPing actually disrupts your gaming experience.. then you have no right to complain if you chose an RP server in the first place. As for the naming thing.. Ghettobootay got petitioned by me for one reason... she was a (its gonna be deleted so I wont bother typing it) when I asked her about her last name.. and tried to argue that it was a lore-accurate in-character nickname, not a real world reference. I petitioned her... for being an idiot.... not a rules violator. Draxehn <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Well, let's go through some points: 1) What you CLAIM, and what you DO are two different things. Consider this. If everyone perceives that you ARE trying to tell people how to roleplay, what does that tell you? Your actions are speaking much louder then words. 2) People can in general roleplay in the open. YES, there will be some harassment. As there would be anywhere. If you can't handle that, then perhaps it's best to not be in a place where public commentary, including the potential of ridicule is possible. To DEMAND that the channels be use without chance of ridicule is infringing. SHOULD /shout be used as IC only? Yes, since it's defined as such. But right here you're DEMANDING it only be used as such. Thus, you demand people roleplay. Actions speak louder then words. 3) Since I'm a roleplayer, I picked a roleplay server. But I don't enforce my style of roleplay upon others. Despite your claims, you do. If someone daring to use a channel improperly or having a non-roleplay name disrupts YOUR gaming this strongly, then why did you pick a game where public interaction can take place? People don't follow your orders. 4) I'm not attacking you. I'm stating fact. You're bringing the exact same things that brought things crashing down upon your head, that caused you to alienate most of our server here. If you can't handle my posts, then don't read them. If you think this is an attack, report the post. 5) We roleplay in a private home because we liked the idea of setting one up as a private pub. We can open it to the public, decorate it how we want, and yet since we can use the access commands for the home to block people, keep people out that we don't wish to let in for any reason. My old guild, we held a bardic in the Lion's Mane. We never encountered what you said. But even if we had, we would have simply ignored it, if need be put some people on ignore, and moved on. As an aside, I see the same "us vrs them" mentality I saw in your posts on the Lucan d'Lere server that I see here. "The roleplayers, then the other guys". Thing is, your actions have fractured and split the roleplaying community, if anything. Draxehn, you're NOT the roleplaying community on Lucan d'Lere...you were one of many roleplay communities before...and you're now very much a splinter. Believe me, I know of many who are glad to have left your "fold". Why I posted in my last RP event notice that I don't want any assoication with you nor the EQLore channel. I don't, and still don't. 6) Why did you confront her at all? You set the stage to be told off by her. No, if you disliked her name, felt it broke naming convention, YOU should have /petitioned it, and let it go. Not confronted her, even if you claim you did it in a polite manner, and then /petition, getting your EQLore room to /petition also. You do this to yourself, then refuse to admit it. You call all the animosity upon yourself. I'm going to state this again: You call all the animosity upon yourself. Now, you will disagree, or otherwise post some drivel. Feel free. Enjoy your last word.

Valeirie

06-26-2006, 03:23 AM

<DIV>((The degree of RP each one wants to see in a game is a matter of a personal choice. I personally had switched servers for my character from Lucan to Antonia Bayle few months ago and I am enjoying it so much more because general level RP on AB is much higher. Even though I back on LDL was in an awesome guild where people RPed really well (Troubor, you are one of the best RPers IMHO I had ever encountered) but outside the guild I hardly saw any RP at all, which was sad. Looks like Lucan is reemerging as a RP server now. That gnoll attack event sounds like tons of fun, two thumbs up to you for the idea, Draxehn!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I agree that different people prefer different play styles, that's why there are different type of servers: PvP, usual ones, RP, Station Exchange... Nobody should point out which playstyle is the best, it's like arguing which ice-cream flavor is best. All the question of individual taste and preference. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So while some people think having a sleep bar / toilet bar is a bit too much of realism, some people (like me) would love the idea of extreme RP server that has all those features.</DIV> <DIV>Troubor, you have a point that people play game to have a break from reality, but in my opinion added realism would only strengthen that degree of escape because it would add so much more of immersion in the online world. Heck, I would personally pay twice....no, make it three times :smileyvery-happy:LOL my current monthly subscription just to be able play on a special RP enforced (vs. current RP preferred) server with extreme degree of realism. Such special server could have features like extreme death penalty (being stripped of gear and run to the corpse old EQ-style), seasons, much-discussed toilets:smileyhappy:, being able to die of thirst and hunger if I don't eat, having my pets die if I don't feed them regularly and (it's been requested like 3000 times)....drumroll please....even such a mundane thing as finally, finally being able to sit in a chair.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well, good news about the last ability, I had just watched the video yesterday about the Vanguard housing and it seems like my prayers of sitting in the chair and having the gear/clothes show when you drop them on a ground had been finally answered. Here is a link to the video <A href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF7dniRWPAs" target=_blank>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF7dniRWPAs</A> .....very interesting (you can skip first 2 minutes that show general playstyle, the rest of the viodeo is all about building your own house and decorating it) . Though I am not sure if Vanguard is going to have indoor toilets LOL:smileyvery-happy:. Surprisingly I had found out that Vanguard's graphic is a lot similar to my beloved EQII. Now I feel like a kid on a Christmas eve, LOL, counting down days till Vanguard will be released in Jan 2007. Oh well, this is taking the thread way way offtopic, back to the subject)) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think if communal bathhouses were built, that would have been totally great! "......Just to show we aren't a bunch of (smelly) wild people thrown together, who pee in the fountains and empty their bowels in the gutter. Just for looks... " - yeah, just for that reason altogether! *laughs* </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But meanwhile looks like Norrathians have to be content with using chamber pots. Now I know why merchants sell those Antonican Buckets like hotcakes! :smileyvery-happy: </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I loved the pictures of your bathroom, Ishtar! I had always known that kerrans are very vigilant in their personal hygiene habits and your great apartment is a further proof. *gives two thumbs up* Tunare's mercy, your toilet even has a flush string...totally amazing! Yep, looks like I have to build my own private retreat if I don't want to continue to pollute Norrathian environment any further, hehe. Like the proverb goes "Gods don't have any hands except your own". *runs off to craft very inspired* </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>Message Edited by Valeirie on 06-25-2006 04:31 PM

Cusashorn

06-26-2006, 05:46 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mary the Prophetess wrote: Well, if you want to carry the realism arguement further; There should be permanent death. There should be no static spawns of Mobs. There should only be a single instance of all named MOBs. Weapons of legend should be only one of a kind. Characters should be required to spend 6-8 game-hours camped so that they can sleep. Characters should age and die. Message Edited by Mary the Prophetess on 06-25-200604:21 AM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> 1. Nobody would ever make it beyond Antonica or the Commonlands if there was permanent death. Most wouldn't make it off the isle of refuge. 2. Every common monster you see in the game, from a lore point of view, can represent hundreds, thousand, or even millions of that type of mob. People think that the Orc presence on Zek shouldn't be a problem to rebuild the Ultarian spires there, yet even though there's only about 130 or so orcs in the entire zone, each orc represents thousands more. As for static spawns, mobs gotta reproduce and all that... 3. For some areas of the game, I agree with this. It would help with the always persistance problem of grouping up with others because the zones are never populated enough to ever talk to anyone else and get together. In other areas, I think it's fine as it is. 4. Anything of Anything that is one of a kind is labeled "ARTIFACT" in Everquest and EQ2. And what if a certain weapon or armor of legend was mass produced back in the day, and those weapons became famous because a group of people all used them? Like a group of knights all used the same sword imbued with holy power to all take down an evil force or something? Should only one of those knights have the sword? Legendary weapons and Armor arn't always one of a kind. I don't even think they should be limited in number and never ever appear again in the game once enough people has it. 5. Kinda like how it is now when players actually log off for the night to go to bed.... 6. NO. With EQ and EQ2's time system, the passing of 1 full earth year would result in every last Troll, Ogre, Human, Barbarian, and almost every last Halfling, Iksar, Kerran, Ratonga, Half Elf, and Erudite in the game dying from old age.

Valeirie

06-26-2006, 07:47 AM

Funny how discussion on bathrooms had turned into discussion of a world structure *looks amused* :smileyhappy: Anyway, here are my two coppers on implementing extreme realism: 1) There should be permanent death. /agree . Each character could be given say 25 revival spells for free when he starts (instead of current dumbed-down unlimited revival). Then you can buy additional revival spells from the vendors, or maybe sages could scribe them. Sages always complain that their class is broken, this will ensure their spells are in constant demand.If you are out of resurrection spells and mob kills you then your character dies. Permanently. The character shows in the character slot but he is grayed out and unplayable. You could delete him or create a new character that could attempt to resurrect your permanently dead character. Say, your main dies, you roll an alt and that alt purchases a 'Raise from The Dead' spell (for insane amount of gold and status from Arcane Science merchants) after completing a quest for it. This way he could try to resurrect your main character back to the world of living. Perhaps they could add 10% chance of something going wrong during the spell chanting, so the resurrected character becomes somewhat zombie-like in the appearance (greenish skintone tint for example) Necromancers could resurrect players without 'Raise from The Dead' quested spell, because raising the dead is their bread and butter. However the player could only come back as naked zombie devoid of all AA and gear, with all spells downgraded to Apprentice I (this will encourage players not to skip the difficult quest and opt for necromancers assistance instead). Perhaps a new zombie race will be added to the additional existing races. 2)There should be no static spawns of Mobs. /agree . Static respawn of mobs is unrealistic. Mobs could respawn as scaled-down versions of themselves (baby mobs) with a bit lower stats. Mobs reproduce too you know. Say if normal mob is two up arrows baby mob would be two down arrow or a single down arrow. Mob offspring would grow to a full size and full in a course of few gamehours. Killing baby mob would give like only a tiny faction of XP given for killing full grown adult mob. 3)There should only be a single instance of all named MOBs.For each character. Also named mobs names could be randomly selected so when it respawns it's not going to be 'Grimdash the Black' over and over again. Unless it is undead mob, then mob respawning with the same name is entirely appropriate. Hmm...need to think further how to make it work 4)Weapons of legend should be only one of a kind. They had it implemented in Diablo II, the named gear that was one-of-a-kind on entire server. It was real cool, i liked it. It could be added as new tier, say "SuperEpic" (or whatever, think of a cool name). IMHO, wearing a piece of weapon that is one of a kind on a whole server will definitely be a source of pride for any adventurer. And those hardcore players could finally feel that they have a chance to stand out in a game. 5)Characters should be required to spend 6-8 game-hours camped so that they can sleep. Sleeping time will be counted when people log off, not during gameplay. Since nobody plays 24 hours a day (almost nobody....though maybe some d00ds do:smileyvery-happy<img src="/smilies/0a4d7238daa496a758252d0a2b1a1384.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />??), characters have a perfect chance for required 6 hours of shut-eye (along with the players LOL). Adventurers are going to be vulnerable while sleeping, so this is additional motivation to use the housing. 6)Characters should age and die. /agree. There just should be a magical rejuvenating potion would exist in game, which would let you become younger. This way realism of aging and convenience of gameplay would coexist peacefully. It could be a rare potion craftable by alchemists. That potion would be fairly expensive and a perfect money sink. There is already counter that shows the account age, why not have the same counter for each character? Also, some races age slower than others, say the lifespan of an elf is much longer than that of a human. Some races show their age more, some less. So that would add character diversion too. 7) And last but not least - all characters will have the toilet and hygiene needs bars! :smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy:Message Edited by Valeirie on 06-25-2006 08:53 PM

Mary the Prophetess

06-26-2006, 08:10 AM

I think you are misunderstanding my position. I DO NOT advocate that level of realism in EQ2. I was merely pointing out that those who were arguing for greater realism were neglecting some of the things I listed. I went on to explain that how in other games that had an increased number of realistic features, it made for a game that was more time-consuming, less practical, and less stress-free than this one. I think EQ2 is fine at what it does. I do not really want to turn it into the type of world I described. When I am in the mood for that, I go there. When I want to have a less-stressful, more social experience, (that still has the fantasy flavor), I come here. That's why I play both. As far as simulating bathroom activities, that's just wrong on so many levels....

CuddlingWo

06-26-2006, 08:52 AM

Well Troubor is now apparently going to flame and attack me on the History and Lore forums as well... see this is why I don't post on the Lucan forums.I have responded to these accusations at least a dozen times each.. im responding one more time and closing this thread so I don't have to listen to Troubor continue to twist my words.1) What you CLAIM, and what you DO are two different things. Consider this. If everyone perceives that you ARE trying to tell people how to roleplay, what does that tell you? Your actions are speaking much louder then words.Well, considering it is a very very small minority of people, including yourself, that have claimed I am trying to tell people how to roleplay. And that everyone who has claimed that has repeatedly put me on ignore and refused to discuss anything with me, AND do not spend any time in the EQLore channel beyond waiting for us to say something they can attack. I personally do not care what people who choose ignorance over evidence care to believe. Yes.. by actions are speaking louder than words.. your words.. thats why I get 80+ people in my room on some nights, and none of them ever accurse me of forcing anyone to do anything, ever. There are at least 30-40 people I would call regulars, that even come from other servers, and when I tell them the accusations you make, they laugh and ask how you could be so ignorant. These people spend more time with me, listen to me when I say things, and see the actions that I am taking. You put me on ignore and ban me and the room from RP events... so how can you possibly believe you know more about me and my intentions than these people??Isn't it ironic.. that the only people who claim I am doing all these things, are the same people who never talk to me?2) People can in general roleplay in the open. YES, there will be some harassment. As there would be anywhere. If you can't handle that, then perhaps it's best to not be in a place where public commentary, including the potential of ridicule is possible. To DEMAND that the channels be use without chance of ridicule is infringing. SHOULD /shout be used as IC only? Yes, since it's defined as such. But right here you're DEMANDING it only be used as such. Thus, you demand people roleplay. Actions speak louder then words.Actually, I will agree to this. Yes, I am DEMANDING that /shout be used for IC only. Is that demanding people roleplay? No... there is an /ooc channel. Thus, your entire argument, is false, and based on ignorance of the fact that there is a seperate channel for /ooc. You are mixing words around and phrasing things carefull to make it look like I am doing something I am not. Demanding that the channels be used properly, in no way, forces ANYONE to role play.. And yes.. I do get upset when people role play in ooc channels.. because I think if someone dosn't want to see it, they should be able to turn off shout and ignore it.. so don't bug them with it. As for demanding that they be used without a chance of ridicule... its an IC channel.. ridicule me in character.. in an ooc channel, ridicule me ooc. As long as you dont border on the edge of pure harrassment, im fine with it. People have a right to their opinions. 3) Since I'm a roleplayer, I picked a roleplay server. But I don't enforce my style of roleplay upon others. Despite your claims, you do. If someone daring to use a channel improperly or having a non-roleplay name disrupts YOUR gaming this strongly, then why did you pick a game where public interaction can take place? People don't follow your orders.There are people in my room who think I should enforce Lore-based RP. Quite frankly I agree with them, all RP should be lore-based. However, if someone chooses to RP to different lore.. I see no point in bashing them. My character will find it difficult to be around their character since we come from different worlds, we won't make much sense interacting, but that is my opinion based on years of RPing. So, in that case, I just wont get involved in any major storylines with you to keep from conflicting with the lore we each follow. However, in my opinion, you are completely free to RP any way you want, even if I don't agree with it. However, "stripping" at a wedding reception and making a reference to 80s music.. is breaking the barrier for me.. its non-fantasy RP, its a different type of RP altogether. No, I don't think you should be allowed to RP space man spiff from the planet galgamon. It does not fit the time/setting of the game. Am I going to report you? No.. I'm going to ignore you and probably get a good chuckle out of your antics. As far as someone using a channel improperly, that disrupts all role play.. no matter what your style of role play, someone shouting the knicks scores, breaks the fantasy barrier. No, they shouldn't be kicked from the server for it.. but out of pure decency and consideration of the other players, they SHOULD use /ooc. Its not a lot to ask. Again.. anyone reading this.. come to my room and ask the regulars when is the last time they saw me enforce any style of RP on anyone, or march around giving orders on how to RP. 4) I'm not attacking you. I'm stating fact. You're bringing the exact same things that brought things crashing down upon your head, that caused you to alienate most of our server here. If you can't handle my posts, then don't read them. If you think this is an attack, report the post.You are stating biased opinion based on your perception. You have repeatedly been told by me, and if you don't believe me, theres a lot of other people who will gladly tell you that you have the wrong idea about me. I did not alienate most of the server, because my room is still as popular, if not more so, than it ever was. If I alienated the server, how could that be? You are NOT the server Troubor.. you are NOT king [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] of RP, ok? Here you are acting like you speak for everyone, then accusing me of doing it. How many people were at your last event Troubor? My FIRST server event had over 15 people. My second event busted 20. These weren't even scheduled events. No, its not a competition, im pointing out that you do not speak for the entire RP community like you claim to. And I do consider it an attack, when someone gets the wrong impression of me, even if it IS for something I said.. and then runs around telling other people about me, despite the fact that so many many people who know me, think you are full of it and have no clue what I am really like. Don't listen to me Troubor, come ask the room... oh wait, I forgot, you accused everyone in the lore room of being my pathetic sycophants... nice... Oh, and as for the things crashing in my head comment, do not presume to dare understand my condition when you are unwilling to talk to me about things. Wheres your psychiatry degree? At least the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is in my head so I can claim to have some understanding of it...5) We roleplay in a private home because we liked the idea of setting one up as a private pub. We can open it to the public, decorate it how we want, and yet since we can use the access commands for the home to block people, keep people out that we don't wish to let in for any reason. My old guild, we held a bardic in the Lion's Mane. We never encountered what you said. But even if we had, we would have simply ignored it, if need be put some people on ignore, and moved on. If we hold a public event, and noone harrasses us, we don't even mention it. We don't hold public events looking for harrassers.. we are not trying to bait these people. But it does happen... and you act like you are defending peoples rights to do it. This is the last time I will say it. I hold events in public, because I like to. I think when you hold them in private, you are limited to those who know about them ahead of time. If you hold them in public, anyone walking by within range of the spatial chat, just got an invitation. I prefer that, because new people to the server who don't read the forums or the web sites, won't ever see your invitations to the bardic event, and will miss out on it. That's why I advertise lore discussions in the level channels... not everyone reads my forum posts and I am aware of that. Don't think I am telling you NOT to hold player room based events.. I understand and FULLY agree to the points you are making.. But, I think we should do public events too! And at the public events, tell people about the private ones. Keep in mind, I am saying public/private to denote where it occurs.. not if it is by invitation. Even though you have banned me and everyone in the EQLore room from your events, despite the fact that we never, ever claimed to have any ill intent. In fact, I told you that I wanted to show up at your event on an alt you did not know, so you could get an unbiased opinion of me as an RPer... you responded that I was threatening to ruin your event, again.. you twisted my words like you always have.As an aside, I see the same "us vrs them" mentality I saw in your posts on the Lucan d'Lere server that I see here. "The roleplayers, then the other guys". Thing is, your actions have fractured and split the roleplaying community, if anything. Draxehn, you're NOT the roleplaying community on Lucan d'Lere...you were one of many roleplay communities before...and you're now very much a splinter. Believe me, I know of many who are glad to have left your "fold". Why I posted in my last RP event notice that I don't want any assoication with you nor the EQLore channel. I don't, and still don't.Ah yes, the ol' Draxehn ruined the community bit. Yes.. before I came along, everyone RPed with everyone, and everyone agree on everything, and everyone got along... Until I came along... the entire server was one big massive RP and now that I am here, noone can find RP because I shattered that beautiful community and now everyone RPs in small groups with friends and guildmates. You know... the things you claim I was responsible for... are the things I always heard people complaining about... that inspired me to create my room. I guess I worked in secret in the shadows to ruin RP for everyone, using my great powers you seem to think I have over the community, and now I am sliding in to be the savior.. but you caught me... drat... I guess ill have to pay someone to rob a bank, then betray them and foil the bank robbery to be a hero today... 6) Why did you confront her at all? You set the stage to be told off by her. No, if you disliked her name, felt it broke naming convention, YOU should have /petitioned it, and let it go. Not confronted her, even if you claim you did it in a polite manner, and then /petition, getting your EQLore room to /petition also. You do this to yourself, then refuse to admit it. You call all the animosity upon yourself.Well.. I wasn't aware that you weren't allowed to ask someone about their name. Quite frankly I thought it was cute at first, and just wondered how she came up with it. I woulda laughed my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] off if she said her character had a big ol' [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. And it was in a polite manner... and my room didnt /petition because I commanded my pathetic sycophants, as you call them, to do it. Someone else mentioned her name to the room. Not everyone petitioned it... most in the room are like me... most names don't bother them. I don't do this to myself.... people like you attack me... because of a problem I have... I defend it, and I do so in the wrong way, and I just make you look right... and I gotta learn to stop doing that, yes. But.... the things you say about me... are simply... not... true.. If anyone has any questions about me.. please.. feel free to PM.. Thankfully, so far Troubor is the only one who has seemed to follow me to the History and Lore forums to attack me here for everything I say. Notice, this all started, when I made a post about lore. Troubor brought this here... and I would love if the mods considered it harrassment as I do.Draxehn<div></div>

Cusashorn

06-26-2006, 08:55 AM

<DIV>But still, puting old age and death into the game is just wrong. Some races (Wood, High, and Dark Elves, Gnomes, and to a lesser extent, Dwarves) would live 2-3-4 Real years longer than every other race in the game.</DIV>

Troubor

06-26-2006, 09:07 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CuddlingWolf wrote: Well Troubor is now apparently going to flame and attack me on the History and Lore forums as well... see this is why I don't post on the Lucan forums. Draxehn <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Here we go with Draxehn's lies and twisting of the truth. No, the reason you don't post on the Lucan D'Lere forums is because of the way you alienated and harassed everyone there, period. And because of the lies you spread about everyone there. And because of the drama you caused. You caused the reactions others have toward you. As I said before, drop the "us vrs them" mentality. If you can. Feel free to keep twisting what I say how you want, when you want. As an aside, as stated in another post on another forum, your narcissism is showing again, Draxehn. Message Edited by Arvig on 06-25-2006 10:11 PM

Mary the Prophetess

06-26-2006, 09:29 AM

Cusa, I agree with you. Permanent death is simply impractical in any game. I would, however like to have character models that better reflected aging though. One of my alts is Sister Seremella of the Sisters of the Rose of Erollisi Marr. She is in her seventies, frail, and old. Her character model though (even with the age slider) looks like she is a buxom girl in her twenties with grey hair. I wwould love to be able to have her walk with a stoop or a limp, or leaning on a staff, etc. But (as someone pointed out), I'll settle for letting her sit down. Back to the topic of discussion: I cannot even BEGIN to imagine the ridicule we would subject ourselves to on this issue! I can see it now: SOE proudly announces a breakthrough in MMORPGS: EVERPOOP: The search for Charmin! Coming soon to retailers everywhere. You'll be afraid to flush again!

Troubor

06-26-2006, 09:47 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mary the Prophetess wrote: Cusa, I agree with you. Permanent death is simply impractical in any game. I would, however like to have character models that better reflected aging though. One of my alts is Sister Seremella of the Sisters of the Rose of Erollisi Marr. She is in her seventies, frail, and old. Her character model though (even with the age slider) looks like she is a buxom girl in her twenties with grey hair. I wwould love to be able to have her walk with a stoop or a limp, or leaning on a staff, etc. But (as someone pointed out), I'll settle for letting her sit down. Back to the topic of discussion: I cannot even BEGIN to imagine the ridicule we would subject ourselves to on this issue! I can see it now: SOE proudly announces a breakthrough in MMORPGS: EVERPOOP: The search for Charmin! Coming soon to retailers everywhere. You'll be afraid to flush again! <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Two comments: Although it might not be practical to have one's character age as the game progresses, at least with one game day being about 72 minutes or so, yes I'd like to be able to see the age slider have a better range, especially with the SOGA/Alternate models. I also would love to make someone who looks like they are in their 70's or 80's if human...and on the other end of the scale, make someone who looks like they are barely an adolscent, and even using middle ages standards of whom or what was an "adult", barely old enough to even be out adventuring. And in between...how about someone who might still be fit and capable, but clearly is middle aged? Second comment: EVERPOOP! I love it! I'm flushed with excitement! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Valeirie

06-26-2006, 01:09 PM

<DIV>Oh-my-god, EVERPOOP...the search for Charmin...:smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV>I was laughing so loud when I read it that I startled both of my sleeping pugs awake </DIV>

CuddlingWo

06-26-2006, 01:21 PM

I would just like to thank the regulars on this forum for not responding to the argument between me and Troubor. I tried to take it to PMs, he blocked them. Since others are ignoring him, I will ignore him too... honestly the only reason I respond is I am paranoid that people will hate me because of lies said about me.. but I guess the people here are a little more mature about that since you aren't all jumping on the hate draxehn bandwagon.Im going to take your example guys, and thank you again for not getting involved. It should never have been brought to this forum.. and hopefully Troubor will realize that and let me get on with my life...Draxehn<div></div>

Troubor

06-26-2006, 02:06 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CuddlingWolf wrote: I would just like to thank the regulars on this forum for not responding to the argument between me and Troubor. I tried to take it to PMs, he blocked them. Since others are ignoring him, I will ignore him too... honestly the only reason I respond is I am paranoid that people will hate me because of lies said about me.. but I guess the people here are a little more mature about that since you aren't all jumping on the hate draxehn bandwagon. Im going to take your example guys, and thank you again for not getting involved. It should never have been brought to this forum.. and hopefully Troubor will realize that and let me get on with my life... Draxehn <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <chuckles> I blocked your PM's because you posted lies and half truths in them. If you believe them, or just were trying to get a reaction out of me, I don't know. As an aside, if you wish to ignore me, then why do you continue to post in my thread announcing my RP event, over on the Lucan d'Lere server forum? If you're going to ignore me, maybe you should ignore me there too? Or are you following your usual pattern of claiming one thing, and doing another? As for the "lies said about you". You bring the reactions about you down upon yourself. How many times must I repeat that? You do things, you lie, you infurate, you alienate. You caused how people react to you on the LDL server. Take the blame for that. You want to "get on with your life"..fine. Don't threaten to harass me by sending either your supporters from the EQlore channel, or an unknown alt into my RP events when you're not invited. I've never came to one of your events. I have you on ignore in game. I can't even interact with you at an RP event or your chat channel even if I did show up or log into the channel. Don't threaten to stalk and harass me in game. Is this getting on with your life, threatening me?

Zabjade

06-26-2006, 02:08 PM

I see nothing wrong with toilets, baths and sinks (Several Generations of Gnomes/Erudites/Dwarves/ as well as Halflings Half Elves, Kerra and Humans would have lead to the development of convenient waste removal) not sure why people are going overboard however. Elves and Fae likley magic the stuff away? :smileyvery-happy: No idea on the rest. <div></div>

CuddlingWo

06-26-2006, 02:09 PM

<div></div>Can someone tell me if there is a way to block a users posts from appearing? like a forum-wide ignore?<div></div>Just to clarify.. im asking if there is a way to make it where on my computer I do not see a particular person's posts any more...Message Edited by CuddlingWolf on 06-26-2006 03:13 AM

IrishWonder

06-26-2006, 03:35 PM

No offense Drax, but when I first came into your lore channel, I found you to be a great guy. It wasn't long, however, before a lot of things I had to disagree with began to arise. It seemed for every bit of lore that was discussed, it was followed by hours of you fishing for compliments, telling us of your latest effort to contact devs, or self-righteously bashing the latest person on your ignore list. I realize that a few people may have given you grief over the channel, but when I saw you verbally abusing people in the channel, or running to every forum you could find to flame the latest person on your hate list, I realized that ALL these people couldn't be in the wrong. This is the second or third time you've had a fallout on these forums, and you haven't been here that long. These can't always be the other person's fault. I think most of the predicaments you find yourself in you bring on yourself... you should try not to be so defensive and controlling, and if you want other to leave you alone, you should offer them the same... don't continue to flame them in your channel, or post in every EQ2 forum on the market about that person. I am in a raiding guild on my server in Guk, so I can only open chat rooms once in awhile during raids to see what's going on. I quickly realized what your channel was going to be composed of, and sadly had to leave it. I see too much fighting between raid guilds to see more in a channel that I joined for entertainment. Back when I first wandered into the channel, you asked those there if we thought you were doing a good service so far with your channel and with the lore community... at the moment, I'd have to give that an emphatic "No." No, I'm not on the Drax Hate Wagon :smileywink: I'm too passive of a person for that kinda stuff. I just think that you should know the effects that some posts and flames have on other forums and your channel. Both are better off without them, I think. Keep being a lore master, it's good for ya :smileywink:

Zabjade

06-26-2006, 05:54 PM

Back on topic. How would verious races rake care of said needs? Humans: Would probably have a basic commode using s-curved pipes to keep the gasses from the Sewers from comming into the house. Erudites: Similar situation but since they seem to be where the Asian influenced gear from EQ1 comes from, perhaps they have a Squat over commode. one of those slime cleaner things that you see in the Silent City. Half Elves: Depends on wether they come from human elf or half elf families. High Elves: publicly the probably don't admit to the need, but they would likely go for the grand marble nova art styles. Wood Elves: Since they prefer tree houses, carved wood chamber pot with pipes taking the waste dow to a septic tank designed to fertilize the Eddar Trees the live in. Dwarves: They seem the outhouse type build it over a bottomless pit where som nasty beasties are eat a big mean then let them have it!!! Gnomes: Have likely built many steam powered, coal powered , commode with an excess of cogs, still there are many deaths per year when the true Gnomish thinking chair goes BOOM! Kerra: Too easy to say sandbox they might have a modified version of the Erudian's with nice tail rests. Ratonga: I wan to say any corner of a house but that is more Ferret, after all they need to impress clients just like anyone else. Probably a no-frills version of the gnomes (approved by the gnome Invention police) Iksar: The last of the tailed races. being that they are reptilian or the commode of choice would have to be heated (Wouldn't you hate to go into topor while doing you business) probably a long oval so that they can rest their thick tail. Froglock: as an Amphibian race with simple taste they would probably prefer a simulated pool of water with reeds and soil. The wates is used to fertilize the plants and is drained and refilled via a fountain system. Dark Elves: Onyx throne like commodes, some of those in fueds might have a teleport function added to the commode rather then plumbing. Um yeah high elves that is not chocolate on your pillows so don't eat. :smileywink: Fae: Probably use a smaller version of the Wood elf Commode with added space for their wings. Assiciated races: Giggling Goblins(Can't remember the exact name spelling): up until recently likely used a latrine type system but as they are the only tribe of goblins to be allowed withing the city limits of many towns they might have glomed onto more modern ways of toilets. Orcs/Gnolls: lower ranks likely use latrines both dug out and in set aside caves. higher ranks will have probably had agents withing cities who have purchased a Teir'Dal or Kerra style commode respectivly. Gnolls, Splitpaw: Use a set apart cave that is both pit latrine/final resting place for their closest kin, those silly endo-cannibles. Gnolls, Icepaw(claw?): EQ1's Neutral Gnolls(I want them as a Player race!) Not sure depends on where they are now if they are aboard a rag-tag fugitive fleet barely escaping the melting of Velious they are likely using the ships head. if they have managed to settle somewhere you can bet they they will have carved velium commodes likely in a long oval much like the iksar. wether it will be over a latrine or connected to plumbing I leave to Vhalen. Hopefully this will give posted subject fodder.:smileytongue: <div></div>

CuddlingWo

06-26-2006, 06:26 PM

Irish, the sad thing is I fully agree with you... I have a very severe problem keeping myself in line. I have apologized for it several times, and done my best to explain it to those who know me.You are right, me bashing people is wrong... I do it when I'm on a narcissistic rage power trip and when it is over, I feel bad, and I tell my channel what happened and not to take anything I said to heart or listen to me when I am like that. Unfortunately by that time, plenty of people have seen me do it and decided to leave.Usually when I am bashing someone it's not even for something they actually did, it's for something I percieve that they have done personally to me, that in most cases they have not.However... on this forum... in this thread... I was attacked without provocation... I did not come in here and start talking about Troubor. I was happy to leave that in the other forums where I made the mistake and I got out of hand, and I took responsibility and walked away. I tried posting there again recently on subjects I thought would be ok, and still some people, well.. one person.. could not let the past go and give me an opportunity to show that I am not always like that, nor do I want to be or try to be like that.I am trying my best to just stick to my original intentions... teaching lore and promoting open RP with big events. Yes... I got full of myself and acted like a rules cop and a naming violation hunter. Yes, I bragged about talking to GMs and such.. because it helped inflate my false sense of reality I had cultivated. Do I talk to GMs on any special level? Of course not.. I hope none of you actually believed that.. Is Vhalen my best buddy? No.. has he done anything special for me he would not have done for anyone else? No.. all he did was review an idea I had for a storyline, and correct me on a few points where I had made assumptions based on lore. He did nothing but guide the storyline in a lore-accurate direction and I am SURE he would do the same for anyone.. I am not claiming favoritism.Yes, I realize I acted like that, and all I can say is I am sorry. I am not sorry because I did it on purpose and regret it now.. I am not sorry because I tried to trick you and it didn't work.. I am not sorry that I am an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] who lashes out at people, because that is simply not the situation. I am sorry... because for whatever reason... I have a problem. It is not something I can easily control, even when I can control it at all. It is not something I try to do... and it is certainly not something I want to do. I am not proud of my problem.. I'm not telling you to get sympathy.. I am telling you because I actually want you to understand. That way.. If I ever do it again.. you can ignore me and know im just doing my thing as usual.. or perhaps even help me to realize it as many in the EQLore channel who understand my problem help me do.. I like for the people around me to know about me because theres less a chance for me to trick them and hurt them that way..Yes, I've considered just walking away from the game. I realize I will probably do what I do again at some point.. I only hope I catch it faster next time like I have been more recently. However, I do not think it is fair for me to have to leave, or even be silent and not try to be a part of the community, as a result of a disorder that I did not choose to have. A person with Teret's should not have to hide from society because they twitch and randomly say things that may be obscene. No, i'm not saying I have teret's, its just a pretty good comparison if you understand what is wrong with me.So again.. I will do my best to just teach lore, and try not to react when people say bad things about me, truth or lie. It's very very hard for me though, so if I slip up and say something in my channel, but quickly drop it, please consider that a success on my part, lol. I really wish people wouldn't attack the things I am doing that are good though. Making claims that the storyline i'm running is all scripted RP.. .or saying that the EQLore room is designed to bash RPers who don't fit our mold.. These things are simply not true, and damage the reputation of good things I am doing. I wish if you had to attack me, you could attack me for the things I did that were wrong, and leave the good things alone even though the same person did them.Im going to stop posting on the forums for a little while since it draws too much attention and I need to fade in the back to give some people a chance to see that I can do that. Maybe then certain people will realize I am not the person they think I am, that is just something that I cannot help but do from time to time in certain situations.Draxehn<div></div>

Troubor

06-26-2006, 06:46 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CuddlingWolf wrote: (snipped part of the quote, my edit: Troubor) However... on this forum... in this thread... I was attacked without provocation... I did not come in here and start talking about Troubor. I was happy to leave that in the other forums where I made the mistake and I got out of hand, and I took responsibility and walked away. I tried posting there again recently on subjects I thought would be ok, and still some people, well.. one person.. could not let the past go and give me an opportunity to show that I am not always like that, nor do I want to be or try to be like that. (Again, snipped much of the quote, my edit: Troubor) Im going to stop posting on the forums for a little while since it draws too much attention and I need to fade in the back to give some people a chance to see that I can do that. Maybe then certain people will realize I am not the person they think I am, that is just something that I cannot help but do from time to time in certain situations. Draxehn <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Had a much longer reply, but will narrow it down to this: a) Calling you on lies and grandiose posts isn't an attack, it's simply that. Calling you on your lies. Same thing when I directly pointed out that Killashack on LDL came up with his "Is Lucan an avatar of Innorruk" hypothesis that you quoted. As an aside, he thanked me in game for pointing that out, he asked me to give credit when credit is due, he's proud of his hypothesis. (not debating if it's unique or not, if it has been considered before, I do believe that Killashack came up with it independently of any previous speculation on this forum or another..but that's another thread..literally) And no, it's not one person "not letting go"...if this is the case, why did you repeat your stalking threat from last week, post an outright lie about what Sapphirius did with regards to reporting to a GM, and other things earlier last night and today? b) I'll believe your walking away from the forums for a short bit when I see it. You've twice threatened to harass me by either coming to one of my RP events or sending one of your supporters, when they are uninvited. Once last week, once this week. So, we'll see if you now do what you claim you're going to do, or claim one thing, and then do the other, as you often seem to do. Message Edited by Arvig on 06-26-2006 07:49 AM

Valeirie

06-27-2006, 02:43 AM

<DIV align=center>A BIG REQUEST TO LIMIT THE POSTS IN THIS THREAD TO THE SUBJECT OF HISTORY, PRESENT DAY SITUATION AND RACIAL TRADITIONS OF PLUMBING IN NORRATH ONLY!!!!</DIV> <DIV align=center> </DIV> <DIV align=left>Please, no flames. It is a LORE thread, not "who-hates-who" thread.</DIV>

DreamerClou

06-27-2006, 07:37 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zabjade wrote: Back on topic. How would verious races rake care of said needs? Humans: Would probably have a basic commode using s-curved pipes to keep the gasses from the Sewers from comming into the house. Erudites: Similar situation but since they seem to be where the Asian influenced gear from EQ1 comes from, perhaps they have a Squat over commode. one of those slime cleaner things that you see in the Silent City. Half Elves: Depends on wether they come from human elf or half elf families. High Elves: publicly the probably don't admit to the need, but they would likely go for the grand marble nova art styles. Wood Elves: Since they prefer tree houses, carved wood chamber pot with pipes taking the waste dow to a septic tank designed to fertilize the Eddar Trees the live in. Dwarves: They seem the outhouse type build it over a bottomless pit where som nasty beasties are eat a big mean then let them have it!!! Gnomes: Have likely built many steam powered, coal powered , commode with an excess of cogs, still there are many deaths per year when the true Gnomish thinking chair goes BOOM! Kerra: Too easy to say sandbox they might have a modified version of the Erudian's with nice tail rests. Ratonga: I wan to say any corner of a house but that is more Ferret, after all they need to impress clients just like anyone else. Probably a no-frills version of the gnomes (approved by the gnome Invention police) Iksar: The last of the tailed races. being that they are reptilian or the commode of choice would have to be heated (Wouldn't you hate to go into topor while doing you business) probably a long oval so that they can rest their thick tail. Froglock: as an Amphibian race with simple taste they would probably prefer a simulated pool of water with reeds and soil. The wates is used to fertilize the plants and is drained and refilled via a fountain system. Dark Elves: Onyx throne like commodes, some of those in fueds might have a teleport function added to the commode rather then plumbing. Um yeah high elves that is not chocolate on your pillows so don't eat. :smileywink: Fae: Probably use a smaller version of the Wood elf Commode with added space for their wings. Assiciated races: Giggling Goblins(Can't remember the exact name spelling): up until recently likely used a latrine type system but as they are the only tribe of goblins to be allowed withing the city limits of many towns they might have glomed onto more modern ways of toilets. Orcs/Gnolls: lower ranks likely use latrines both dug out and in set aside caves. higher ranks will have probably had agents withing cities who have purchased a Teir'Dal or Kerra style commode respectivly. Gnolls, Splitpaw: Use a set apart cave that is both pit latrine/final resting place for their closest kin, those silly endo-cannibles. Gnolls, Icepaw(claw?): EQ1's Neutral Gnolls(I want them as a Player race!) Not sure depends on where they are now if they are aboard a rag-tag fugitive fleet barely escaping the melting of Velious they are likely using the ships head. if they have managed to settle somewhere you can bet they they will have carved velium commodes likely in a long oval much like the iksar. wether it will be over a latrine or connected to plumbing I leave to Vhalen. Hopefully this will give posted subject fodder.:smileytongue: <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Wow.

Troubor

06-27-2006, 08:46 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Valeirie wrote: <DIV align=center>A BIG REQUEST TO LIMIT THE POSTS IN THIS THREAD TO THE SUBJECT OF HISTORY, PRESENT DAY SITUATION AND RACIAL TRADITIONS OF PLUMBING IN NORRATH ONLY!!!!</DIV> <DIV align=center> </DIV> <DIV align=left>Please, no flames. It is a LORE thread, not "who-hates-who" thread.</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Valerie, I'm going to formally apolgize since I was one of the participants in the deraling of this thread. I hope this doesn't lessen your opinion of me, especially since you were a former guildmate of mine when you were on the LDL server. As an aside, I do still have Coal. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Now, to be a bit more on topic...okay..the one about the various facilities for various races was great..how about getting a bit more esoteric...giants anyone? Or...Lamia even? Or Nightbloods..if Lamia or Nightbloods, despite being humanoid in apperance (obviously much more so for the Lamia) have any such biological funciton? Centaurs I assume would do what horses do and leave road apples so to speak, but I would assume there would be a spot far from camp...don't see them doing such near where they can smell such, personally. Hoping I'm not getting silly, but what about Dragons..erm...I've never at least seen a..ahem..pile of anything other then treasure in a dragon's lair...

kyth

06-28-2006, 06:33 AM

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Arvig wrote:<div></div> <chuckles> Chamber pots. Simply put, one had a ceramic pot..erm..filled it, tossed the contents out the window. Believe me, sanitation as we know it is a pretty modern concept.<hr></blockquote>Roman Bath Houses and Appartments had <a href="http://www.leicestermuseums.ac.uk/discoveryzone/flushed/roman2.html" target=_blank>toilets</a> that went to flowing sewer systems. Romans also used a sponge on a stick to "wipe" it is currently unknown if every person had their own or if they used a public sponge at the public bathrooms....</div>Message Edited by kythik on 06-27-2006 07:37 PM

Mary the Prophetess

06-28-2006, 12:50 PM

STOP! Please [yer killin' me.]

Zabjade

06-28-2006, 03:31 PM

Stop what? The arguing, or talking about a legitimate lore issue that seems to be missing from the game? Perhaps the killing me part is laughter. <div></div>

Troubor

06-28-2006, 03:37 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> kythik wrote: <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Arvig wrote: <chuckles> Chamber pots. Simply put, one had a ceramic pot..erm..filled it, tossed the contents out the window. Believe me, sanitation as we know it is a pretty modern concept. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Roman Bath Houses and Appartments had <A href="http://www.leicestermuseums.ac.uk/discoveryzone/flushed/roman2.html" target=_blank>toilets</A> that went to flowing sewer systems. Romans also used a sponge on a stick to "wipe" it is currently unknown if every person had their own or if they used a public sponge at the public bathrooms.... </DIV> Message Edited by kythik on 06-27-2006 07:37 PM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Guess I was thinking more straight middle ages technology, then Roman. Yes, I know the Romans had plumbing, but at the same time I don't recall any such coming into the dark ages for instance..of course correct me if I'm wrong.

Zabjade

06-28-2006, 03:50 PM

Yeah when Rome was invaded the invaders took a lot of the fountains etc without takeing the pipes with it. So they couldn't get them to work back home, if they had been smaerter the Dark ages would have seen the invention of the modern toilet system with today there would have been even more advanced toilets. So blame the sacking of Rome for the fact that there are no toilets in the dark/middle ages and renasance wich means none in fantasy settings, except some anime settings (Wich also have beaches ans swimmingsuits. BTW the first Bikini was printed on Ancient Greek pottery) <div></div>

kyth

06-28-2006, 07:58 PM

A few of the Roman Bath houses remained intact though time and are still working today. For example the one in Bath,England which is still running 100% how it was in roman times.<div></div>

Zabjade

06-29-2006, 03:49 PM

<div></div>I wouldn't be suprised if it had to be restored, then again England wasn't the part of Rome sacked. <div></div>Message Edited by Zabjade on 06-29-2006 04:51 AM

KidMangaX

06-30-2006, 11:03 PM

my friend, I have but a few wise words of wisdom for you. I quote this from a troll's profile ((not me, Im an iksar)), although I forgot his name. "I killz the gnomez. Then I poopz them. Then I eatz them again! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.." One word: Trolls. They are the bathrooms of Norrath. They just looove eating all that bio-waste. Mhm. Heard they make cookies from it too, but they replace the chocolate chips wit--- **Sahaquiel has just been assassinated by a nearby dev. As per request of the desceased, Sahaquiel's body will be cryogenically frozen in mayonaise and launched into space**

KidMangaX

06-30-2006, 11:12 PM

<DIV>oh no. Drax and troub are fighting again. Let me explain with a bunch of swears in different languages, why you 2 are both idiots and should go do bad things to yourselves somewhere else.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Draxehn の愚かな馬鹿である。だれの名前を報告するにはちょうどので傾斜したハンドルの現実たいと思うか定めるTO S の規則の方法余りにも厳密な解釈を使用して、いつも出演する方法を人々に言うことを試みている。弱い人であり、どんな名前がほしいと思う人々が楽しみがとのあることを許可するべきである Troubour は、性交を締めた! 彼らの自身のビジネスを気にしている人々との戦いを選ぶことを試みることを止めなさい! 今あなたの両方はこのとてもチャットルームを放っておく!</DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok, now that all thats out of my system, please stop fighting, you are both being idiots. Leave us alone. Im sick and [Removed for Content] tired of having these posts interrupted by you two bakas, so for the love of god, shut the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] up and take it to tells!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Drax, I agree with you, but I also disagree. Troub SHOULDNT be demanding roleplay, but then again, look at you. You are constantly ruining the game for others by reporting their names. In a way, that IS demanding roleplay, and if you actually get people in trouble for it, then thats even worse. I suggest you both get a little bit more mature over this summer and remember one thing...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>LUCAN D' LERE IS A ROLEPLAYING PREFERRED YOU [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]IN MORONS! NOW SHUT UP ALREADY!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now stop being so [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] immature, and kiss and makeup already :smileywink:</DIV>Message Edited by KidMangaX on 06-30-2006 12:18 PM

KidMangaX

06-30-2006, 11:23 PM

wow the babelfish translator really screwed up what I was trying to say! I was actually trying to talk about how they both weak but instead....well, translate it for yourselves. <A href="http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr" target=_blank>http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr</A> is the translator I used. Original was english to japanese and then a copy paste. Copy and past the text and do japanese to english translating...LOL

Nocturnal Aby

06-30-2006, 11:40 PM

<DIV>At first, I wasn't going to post, but then I thought, why not? I post on a lot of other topics, so here goes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you've ever wondered around in the sewers below Freeport, you'll notice that there are a few different kinds of gnomish machines down there, from boilers, to some sort of pumps, to who really knows what? Although I have not seen similar things in Qeynos, I always took Freeport to have full plumbing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then why the heck are there no bathrooms? Same reason you don't actually need the beds in you can get, same reason you never see any plates or silverwear (minus the spoon in the Christmas event, and whatever that quest that gives you a weildable spoon is), and smae reason you don't see houses of ill repute in either city. To smoothe gameplay, and save the devs a little time on some of the monotinous tedium it would require, I believe that bathroom/toilets/showers/baths/etc is simply implied. We know that, as living creatures, everyone, including all the mobs in all the zones, and the horses people ride around on (with the exception of the ghost horses), will get rid of bodily waste. But why have it part of game play? If you want reality, there's be a large pile behind all the mounted city guards that never move, as well as the roads being filthy as horses rode by and did their thing. As you are hunting in the wilds, you would occasionally step in excrement, especially if you were in places like Valley of the Bears, where animal populations are increased. Ironically, the only places you'd be safe would be that of zones like Stormhold, where the majority of the population is undead, since undead, obviously, no longer require such functions.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Essentially, I believe the reason is to make things cleaner and nicer, and not so disgusting. If you really want a bathroom in your inn room, then make one, like players have been doing with any amenity they want, but have no real furniture for (fireplaces come to mind).</DIV>

Zabjade

07-01-2006, 02:07 AM

We are fully aware it was implied, we just want to see the actual. <div></div>

Xita

07-01-2006, 03:09 AM

anybody else enjoy the irony of the LDL whining occuring in a trhead about toilets and sanitation... i think chamber pots are the way it has to be for now in Norrath. I got a whole bunch of nice potter in my room from the sinking sands... just i hate it when visitors come to my inn room and poop in my pots...

Zabjade

07-01-2006, 03:50 PM

Naw they only used Chamberpots in the Dark/Middle ages (the template for most fantasy) because Rome was sacked and plumbing became a lost art. Norrath obviously still has plumbing and fountains, and many Tinkerers are likely specialized as plumbers. <div></div>

kyth

07-01-2006, 09:40 PM

Qeynos uses a aqueduct system that is easliy based on Romes. Granted that Qeynos's is not thought out well, considering that the water flow is uncovered. Romes was covered to protect the water from contaminants.<div></div>

Scigst

07-02-2006, 02:14 AM

No Bathrooms but a large network of sewer tunnles. ( sorry if this was already mentioned i dind't read the whole thead <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )

Valeirie

07-02-2006, 07:55 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Arvig wrote: ....Hoping I'm not getting silly, but what about Dragons..erm...I've never at least seen a..ahem..pile of anything other then treasure in a dragon's lair... <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> About mystery of a missing dragon droppings..... Concordium members had been concerned about that strange phenomenon for quite awhile. Recently they had conducted their own secret investigation trying to get to the root of this matter. Unfortunately, out of 9 adventurers who had been sent out on a supersecret writ "Missing Dragon Shards" 5 had been eaten by Kerafym and his relatives. However the other 4 had returned to report the horrible truth. Turned out, dragon by-products had long been used as an ingredient in very dark and very dirty magic rituals of Freeport Arcane Science society. Imbued with unnatural life, they had been teleported to Qeynos as a part of Overlord's evil plan. Whoever don't believe it just need to stop by at Peat Bog to have those aggressive smelly waste products attack them (as seen in the painting "Battle Of Brave Adventurer With An Evil Poo", unknown artist, 578 by 470, oil on canvas, currently in private collection) <IMG alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" src="http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/3103/eq200030914kz.jpg" width=405 border=0> Despite numerous attempts of Qeynos guards to get rid of this evil infestation, the problem grows more and more serious with each day. Nowadays Qeynos guards have to resort to desperate measures, recruiting adventurers and promising hefty reward for killing of each enchanted...ummm....you-know-what ( called sludge by politically correct citizens ). Let's all assist them in this noble mission to keep our city clean! Citizens of Qeynos, remember - "A killed sludge a day keeps stink away!" :smileyvery-happy:Message Edited by Valeirie on 07-01-2006 08:56 PM

Cusashorn

07-02-2006, 09:04 AM

<DIV>Seriously people, if you wanna go fight piles of ****, go to Stormhold. It's the only zone that has a "bathroom" in the entire game.</DIV>

Zabjade

07-02-2006, 07:32 PM

Which is why everybody farms there not because of sellable loot, but because they all need to go to the bathroom and are killing mobs for the mystic toilet paper drops! <div></div>

Valeirie

07-03-2006, 03:02 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zabjade wrote: Which is why everybody farms there not because of sellable loot, but because they all need to go to the bathroom and are killing mobs for the mystic toilet paper drops! <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> ROFL :smileyvery-happy:

Zabjade

07-07-2006, 04:08 AM

You know, I'm suprised that Vhalen has yet to weigh in on this? :smileywink: <div></div>

Cusashorn

07-07-2006, 04:29 AM

<DIV>And yet I'm wondering why the thread is still even open.</DIV>

Zabjade

07-07-2006, 06:58 PM

Because we managed to turn it away from the argument self policing style? <div></div>

Zabjade

07-07-2006, 11:49 PM

Vhalen wishes not to get involved with this but he said I could mention that he came up with the lore behind the one in Stormhold. <div></div>

Carodor

07-09-2006, 05:21 PM

We have sewer systems in both citys so ya i'd think that haveing toilets put in is a great idea... except... I'd rather use the woods when out on my adventures. I'd be too afraid that a mob would, well you know...<img src="http://2693444162.monstercommercesites.com/ProductImages/bogmonster.jpg"><div></div>

Xita

07-11-2006, 04:14 AM

wicked picture find...

Carodor

07-11-2006, 05:22 AM

Thank you kindly. :smileywink:Seriously though.. I love some of the ideas on the Norrathian home show. I know i've seen quite a few washroom/bathroom ideas in there. Some times its just up to us to create our own content and fun.<div></div>

110euph

07-11-2006, 05:30 AM

<DIV>Dear Valeirie,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I thought your origional post was witty and entertaining. Some people just need to learn to laugh and be happy. Thanks for taking the time to write your wonderful story!</DIV>

Valeirie

07-11-2006, 06:53 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> 110euph wrote: <DIV>Dear Valeirie,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I thought your origional post was witty and entertaining. Some people just need to learn to laugh and be happy. Thanks for taking the time to write your wonderful story!</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thank you <smiles>, <blushes>. I had fun with it, glad you did too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> In turn, I would like to thank everyone who posted the ideas about this part of Norrathian life which usually gets overlooked by official lore by obvious reasons. :smileyhappy: It was fun thread. It was really fascinating reading about racial traditions developed in this area. My perception of gnome's thinking chair will never be the same :smileywink: :smileyvery-happy: Oh, Troubor, I am glad to hear you still have Coal. I am sure you are taking a very good care of the little mousie.:smileyhappy:

Zabjade

07-11-2006, 05:51 PM

<blockquote><hr>110euph wrote:<div>Dear Valeirie,</div> <div> </div> <div>I thought your origional post was witty and entertaining. Some people just need to learn to laugh and be happy. Thanks for taking the time to write your wonderful story!</div><hr></blockquote>Wonderful story? Are you refering to the pic above, oe a fanfiction I have yet to find?<div></div>

Themaginator

07-11-2006, 09:17 PM

guys cmon you sound like [Removed for Content] your arguing about toilets on the lore forums how dumb lol lets get back to discussion of the gods everling the void things of that sort plz lol<div></div>

Zabjade

07-12-2006, 03:23 AM

Lets not, they have been done to death and into Undeath :smileyvery-happy: Nexy on the Lore channel, the Kitchen Sink!!! I am evil hehehe!! <div></div>

KniteShayd

07-13-2006, 08:51 PM

I'm all for being able to stand on the edge of a cliff, whip it out, and give a freep a golden shower, lol. :smileytongue:

Zabjade

07-22-2006, 09:51 AM

Yeah, but where are you going to find a freep at 3AM on a saturday afet an in town bender, and last time you tried to pee in the fountain it was a toss up of what hurt worse, the bolt of Lightning smiting you or the guards tossing you into Detox? <div></div>

Emerix

07-22-2006, 07:47 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Valeirie wrote: Funny how discussion on bathrooms had turned into discussion of a world structure *looks amused* :smileyhappy: Anyway, here are my two coppers on implementing extreme realism: 1) There should be permanent death. /agree . Each character could be given say 25 revival spells for free when he starts (instead of current dumbed-down unlimited revival). Then you can buy additional revival spells from the vendors, or maybe sages could scribe them. Sages always complain that their class is broken, this will ensure their spells are in constant demand.If you are out of resurrection spells and mob kills you then your character dies. Permanently. The character shows in the character slot but he is grayed out and unplayable. You could delete him or create a new character that could attempt to resurrect your permanently dead character. Say, your main dies, you roll an alt and that alt purchases a 'Raise from The Dead' spell (for insane amount of gold and status from Arcane Science merchants) after completing a quest for it. This way he could try to resurrect your main character back to the world of living. Perhaps they could add 10% chance of something going wrong during the spell chanting, so the resurrected character becomes somewhat zombie-like in the appearance (greenish skintone tint for example) Necromancers could resurrect players without 'Raise from The Dead' quested spell, because raising the dead is their bread and butter. However the player could only come back as naked zombie devoid of all AA and gear, with all spells downgraded to Apprentice I (this will encourage players not to skip the difficult quest and opt for necromancers assistance instead). Perhaps a new zombie race will be added to the additional existing races. 2)There should be no static spawns of Mobs. /agree . Static respawn of mobs is unrealistic. Mobs could respawn as scaled-down versions of themselves (baby mobs) with a bit lower stats. Mobs reproduce too you know. Say if normal mob is two up arrows baby mob would be two down arrow or a single down arrow. Mob offspring would grow to a full size and full in a course of few gamehours. Killing baby mob would give like only a tiny faction of XP given for killing full grown adult mob. 3)There should only be a single instance of all named MOBs.For each character. Also named mobs names could be randomly selected so when it respawns it's not going to be 'Grimdash the Black' over and over again. Unless it is undead mob, then mob respawning with the same name is entirely appropriate. Hmm...need to think further how to make it work 4)Weapons of legend should be only one of a kind. They had it implemented in Diablo II, the named gear that was one-of-a-kind on entire server. It was real cool, i liked it. It could be added as new tier, say "SuperEpic" (or whatever, think of a cool name). IMHO, wearing a piece of weapon that is one of a kind on a whole server will definitely be a source of pride for any adventurer. And those hardcore players could finally feel that they have a chance to stand out in a game. 5)Characters should be required to spend 6-8 game-hours camped so that they can sleep. Sleeping time will be counted when people log off, not during gameplay. Since nobody plays 24 hours a day (almost nobody....though maybe some d00ds do:smileyvery-happy<img src="/smilies/0a4d7238daa496a758252d0a2b1a1384.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />??), characters have a perfect chance for required 6 hours of shut-eye (along with the players LOL). Adventurers are going to be vulnerable while sleeping, so this is additional motivation to use the housing. 6)Characters should age and die. /agree. There just should be a magical rejuvenating potion would exist in game, which would let you become younger. This way realism of aging and convenience of gameplay would coexist peacefully. It could be a rare potion craftable by alchemists. That potion would be fairly expensive and a perfect money sink. There is already counter that shows the account age, why not have the same counter for each character? Also, some races age slower than others, say the lifespan of an elf is much longer than that of a human. Some races show their age more, some less. So that would add character diversion too. 7) And last but not least - all characters will have the toilet and hygiene needs bars! :smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy: Message Edited by Valeirie on 06-25-2006 08:53 PM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> mkay ... 1st Play Diablo 2 Hardcore servers if you like permanent death . If i need an emergency afk in a zone with mobs and die my last death there and lose all my master spells uhh sorry that would make me quit at once . Pure timesink . And for RP reasons it wouldnt work neither because .. why sould my alt care about my main . they dont even know each other . 2nd Yea static pops seem mad but thats the most effective method for a game .No sorry it wouldnt be fun at all to have to wait for mobs to grow up so i can grind up levels . 3rd . The developers want all players to be able to see the quests and such theoretically . how do you want to solve a quest thats like '' What'eva the Mad killed my husband . please revenge him '' when he was killed a thousand days ago ? And making new quests for all players would be too much work . 4th There are mythical items . only one per server (world) . the rest isnt unique . just a limited series . 5th That could be possible but uhh . i dont see the point . 6th That would decrease the playability . Timesink and moneysink . I dont want my character to die . i have to deal with rl ageing allready . 7th make a bathroom/toilet yourself . there are enough items once can use . =)

Zabjade

07-23-2006, 12:58 PM

You can "make" anything yourself, if you can find the right objects in game still I would like something less makshift :smileywink: <div></div>

Ilavatar

07-24-2006, 12:53 PM

No indoor plumbing for a city of thousands? Ewww. In another thread I asked when did the elves and humans ruin their lands?. We still may not know *when* they ruined them, but I guess now we know *how*! :smileyhappy: Fippy: "You ruined your lands, you'll not ruin ours. ... Go build your latrines someplace else!"

Malathos

07-24-2006, 11:46 PM

<div></div>Maj'Dul has obvious evidence of how their sanitation system works.Walk into one of the housing areas, find one of the little wooden constructions that are attached to the side of the buildings and look up. Now what do you think that round hole could be for ?Modern plumbing was mostly a Victorian invention - before that people just used chamber pots and either emptied it out into the street gutters and drains - or, if you were wealthy enough, you paid for the "night soil" collector to come and take it away.M<div></div>

Indy_Mouse_9

07-25-2006, 11:55 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>Modern plumbing was mostly a Victorian invention - before that people just used chamber pots and either emptied it out into the street gutters and drains - or, if you were wealthy enough, you paid for the "night soil" collector to come and take it away.M<div></div><hr></blockquote>Wish we could have one of those then <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> An npc that roams through the zones that have housing, maybe with a handcart? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and called something like: Fred<nightsoil collector>I bet he will end his route in Qeynos in Starcrest or Nettleville at the gates to the Peat Bog...</div>

Zabjade

07-25-2006, 12:05 PM

Modern plumbing is a "new" invention for the most part, although ther concepts have been around for a while just lost. However Earth did not have hyper-inquisitive gnomes, besides there is evidence that plumbing exist in one form or another in fountains, sewers, and aquaducts. <div></div>

Ilavatar

07-25-2006, 12:23 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zabjade wrote: Modern plumbing is a "new" invention for the most part, although ther concepts have been around for a while just lost. However Earth did not have hyper-inquisitive gnomes, besides there is evidence that plumbing exist in one form or another in fountains, sewers, and aquaducts. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Actually quite nice plumbing existed 4500 years ago in the ancient Harappan (or Indus Valley) civilization of modern-day India and Pakistan. Then it was lost until Roman times. Then lost again until the "European barbarians" re-discovered it. :smileyvery-happy:

Zabjade

07-25-2006, 01:44 PM

Yay! Ok president is established! Now lets see the realization! <div></div>

Ocenau

02-15-2011, 12:39 AM

A few quick points the only bathrooms are in the stromhold jail and then you crap in a can for who knows how long the dead almost never need it Inless your a Zombie LOL.

BleemTeam

02-15-2011, 01:28 PM

cool

Cusashorn

02-15-2011, 01:53 PM

Why would anyone want to bump up a 5 year old threat like this!? :/