The Lore and History of EverQuest's past

[Ama]

<DIV>EverQuest has a deep rooted history rich in lore from what I have seen.  There is a great thread on the Entire History of EQ1 leading up to EQ2 however one thing I would love to see in there is EQOA.  However EQOA has been viewed by many not to be historically accurate or lore accurate in some details.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The basic premise behind EverQuest Online Adventures is that it takes place 500 years before EverQuest 1 does.  There are many areas that have yet to be discovered and radical changes that are happening to influence what many will see in the future or to us the Past of which we call EverQuest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As I came into EverQuest 2 I began more and more interested in the lore till the point today when I ventured back in time to EverQuest Online Adventures 500 years before EQ1.  I found some rather interesting tid bits that I am wondering how it Influenced EQ1 and possibly will Shape our future of EverQuest2.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First fact was that Antonius Bayle II was the current ruler of Qeynos (I will add a picture later).  He is in diplomatic meetings with the people of High Bourne where the Erudites live currently. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A second interesting fact is that you can go into the "Frontiers" and meet with the famed Erudite Erud who tells you about the Purposes of Arcaydin.  He also gives details of his hopes for this new city Arcaydin and the people he will welcome into it.  Interesting side note is right at the entrance they have a shrine to the god "Prexus lord of the sea" where they inscribe a prayer to him praying for safe passage and voyages.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another interesting Fact is that the surefall glade is up and being protected by rangers as well as the druids.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A very problematic piece of lore I have seen and will show a picture of is the ruins of the Tier'Dal city *I believe* that are far out in the Desert.  It is in this place where many adventures must complete their final task to earn their rights to wield their most powerful weapons.  They must defeat the mighty Lord Chardith, it was through an extreme group effort that my toon got his Epic weapon which was the druidic staff of Elewith *will check spelling* which at the end of the staff has antlers of a great stag from the Plane of Growth. *Below is a picture about the staff that i'm talking about*</DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/3141/9793sz.jpg"></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My real hope is that the people who know the lore of EverQuest Online Adventures can come together and we can piece together a history that leads up to the beginning of EverQuest1.  The History of Norrath Post helps to lead into the beginning of EverQuest 2 from what I have seen and beyond that is our own journeys.</DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Didn't the developers state that EQOA isn't canon though?</DIV>

[Ama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>Didn't the developers state that EQOA isn't <FONT color=#ff0000>canon</FONT> though?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Unfortunately I don't believe I ever saw that post Cusashorn but if you can direct me to it i'll take a look at it.

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>You're not gonna find one on these boards, sorry.</DIV>

[Ama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>You're not gonna find one on these boards, sorry.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>O ok, its np but what do you mean by "Didn't the developers state that EQOA isn't <FONT color=#ff0000>canon</FONT> though?".</P> <P>Unfortunately i'm not familiar with that term nor have I heard it used before. </P>

[Renita_Serafim]

There is in-game lore that suggests that EQOA is official, such as the 1000 year old elf (Shouldn't he be dead by now? High Elves usually only live a maximum of 600 years.) who remembers Fayspire.<p>Message Edited by Astralmage on <span class=date_text>05-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:50 AM</span>

[troodon]

<DIV>I don't think it really matters how seriously the EQ2 Dev team takes EQoA lore.  They're going to focus on EQ1 lore whether they agree with all of it or think it's as much of a joke as I do.  Maybe they'll add some tie-ins to EQoA, a zone here or a quest there, but an attempt to reconcile everything in that game with what we see in our game is probably a very difficult task.  I'd be happy to give it a try, but I never touched your game after beta :smileytongue:</DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amana wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>You're not gonna find one on these boards, sorry.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>O ok, its np but what do you mean by "Didn't the developers state that EQOA isn't <FONT color=#ff0000>canon</FONT> though?".</P> <P>Unfortunately i'm not familiar with that term nor have I heard it used before. </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>If something is Canon, it means that it's officially aknowledged by the creators as an official part of the story/series, etc.</P> <P> </P> <P>I know there are EQOA elements aknowledged in EQ2, but for the most part it's story just contradicts too much of EQlive to be aknowledged like that.</P>

[Ama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> troodon wrote:<BR> <DIV>I don't think it really matters how seriously the EQ2 Dev team takes EQoA lore.  They're going to focus on EQ1 lore whether they agree with all of it or think it's as much of a joke as I do.  Maybe they'll add some tie-ins to EQoA, a zone here or a quest there, but an attempt to reconcile everything in that game with what we see in our game is probably a very difficult task.  <FONT color=#ff0000>I'd be happy to give it a try, but I never touched your game after beta :smileytongue:</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>:smileyindifferent:, heh heh well i'm just trying to see if EQOA is held true or if it is supposed to come under controversy because of the facts and lore that is within it. </P> <P>There are a couple of unique parts to it, 1st.) you have Antonius Bayle the Second ruling Qeynos *Age Unknown*, 2nd.) The surefall glade is up and bustling training rangers as well as druids, 3rd.) Erud is creating Arcaydin which to me almost seems like it may become Erudin in EQ1, 4th.)  Frogloks are the Enemy in EQOA and are not considered friendly at all the only place you see them is the swamp where the trolls live.  Another strange part is the Iksar are not anywhere to be found. </P> <P>But I guess the one thing everyone Focuses on like a previous poster said is the 1000 year old Elf. </P>

[Cusashorn]

<P>Oh about the Frogloks thing.</P> <P> </P> <P>Frogloks were always the enemy right from the start of EQlive. Not much lore was revealed about them untill around PoP, and then Legacy of Ykesha after that when they were finally made a playable race. People just assumed they were evil down in Lower Guk because they were undead and malevolent.</P>

[Zh]

Only the ones that MM blessed are "good"<div></div>

[Vhalen]

Norrathians have returned from the treacherous seas in the northern territories of the Shattered Lands. With them came wondrous tales of sights never seen One of these tales is said to be a glint of light in a deep frozen atoll. The chill of that fills the bowl formed by the steep cliffs of the atoll makes visibility nearly impossible, yet, a ship dared to brave the mist. What they found was deadly to say the least. Only one sailor made it back, the same cannot be said for his sanity. He ended up in the padded cells of the Freeport Infirmary and Asylum. He told a tale of a glint of light shining in the mist. His captain forced the ship into the thick white fog and onward to this glint. They found a frozen tower, an elven tower. This tower seemed to offer no access, but apparently it did withstand a powerful blast of cold wind. This blast froze the tower, made evident by the long thick icicles that stretch off to one side. The sailor said they found a breach within the icy armor of the tower. They all entered, but only one made it out. His mind gone, all he could mutter was the word, "Fayspire". How such a madman managed to sail that ship out of there is a mystery just like the frozen atoll that cannot be found on any map.

[TheManInTheBox]

<div></div><font face="Comic Sans MS">Very interesting lore.Perhaps we will find this "Fayspire" one day. It would be exciting. I only played EQOA for a little bit, but seeing landmarks from it just makes the lore go that much deeper.As for EQOA being acknowledged by the developers. I guess thats your answer...By the way Vhalen, I'm still waiting on a response in my post. <span>:smileytongue:</span><span></span></font><div></div><p>Message Edited by TheManInTheBox on <span class=date_text>05-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:21 AM</span>

[Sillililygirl]

reminds me of the tower in velious in EQ1.  What was the name of that thing??!<div></div>

[Thax]

<DIV>Tower of Frozen Shadow I think.</DIV>

[Borban]

The Tower of Frozen Shadows.....it sounds like it to me as well but the only thing that doesnt add up is the fact that Velious was south  and these guys were sailing up in the north...unless of course they ended up going around the entire wold and ended up on the southern end eventually.<div></div>

[TheManInTheBox]

<div></div><font face="Comic Sans MS">Tower of Frozen Shadow.Edit - Person above me answered it. But Vhalen was definately referring to the Fayspire in my opinion not The Tower of Frozen Shadow.</font><div></div><p>Message Edited by TheManInTheBox on <span class=date_text>05-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:56 AM</span>

[Gungo]

<P>TOFS.... the tower of frozen shadows ruled by the elven vampric queen... what was her name?</P> <P>It was sorta a madhouse i  suppose, they shoudl bring lodi back if they bring ToFS back.</P><p>Message Edited by Gungo on <span class=date_text>05-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:56 AM</span>

[Borban]

hmmm big ol nasty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] turtle that you could kill by charming a little tiny turtle....lol he was fun<div></div>

[TheManInTheBox]

<div></div><div></div><a href="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=5604" target="_blank">Tserrina Syl'Tor</a>, an ex-lover of Mayong Mistmoore. <a href="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=5419" target="_blank">Lodizal</a> was a fun fight. Especially when they did the event where they made a lot of the old mobs fabled.<div></div><p>Message Edited by TheManInTheBox on <span class=date_text>05-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:05 AM</span>

[Grimjakk]

<P>As far as canon goes, one of the greatest elements of EQ lore is that there isn't necessarily just ONE canon.  Different nations and races are gonna have their own legends and myths, not to mention their own takes on more contemporary histories.</P> <P> </P> <P>Making an attempt to "reconcile" the lore is like trying to wrestle jello.   In the right circumstances, its very entertaining...</P>

[WarShe]

<P>So you all are really paying attention to this mad man? heh.</P> <P>Many NPC's have their own or different versions of lore, and many of these NPCs flat out lie about it, make it up, or where misinformed.</P> <P>Its very hard to figure out exactly what did happen because not all lore is any where close to fact.</P> <P>As much as id like it to be ToFS I doubt it is based on the old maps. Sounds to be closer to old Halas which wouldnt fit to well with the elf thing really. </P> <P>It is possible some thing much older than 500 years old was found isnt it?</P>

[Rezikai]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amana wrote:<BR> <DIV>As I came into EverQuest 2 I began more and more interested in the lore till the point today when I ventured back in time to EverQuest Online Adventures 500 years before EQ1.  I found some rather interesting tid bits that I am wondering how it Influenced EQ1 and possibly will Shape our future of EverQuest2.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A very problematic piece of lore I have seen and will show a picture of is the ruins of the <STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00 size=3>Tier'Dal city *I believe* that are far out in the Desert</FONT></STRONG>.  It is in this place where many adventures must complete their final task to earn their rights to wield their most powerful weapons.  They must defeat the mighty Lord Chardith, it was through an extreme group effort that my toon got his Epic weapon which was the druidic staff of Elewith *will check spelling* which at the end of the staff has antlers of a great stag from the Plane of Growth. *Below is a picture about the staff that i'm talking about*</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Takish Hiz (Tak Hiz) I had thought in EQ1 it was sunken underground, where in EQoA it is in the process of sinking.. and yes it's an awesome place.. one of .. if not <EM><FONT color=#ffcc33>the</FONT></EM> largest city in EQoA in ruins,... w/ Tier Dal soldiers and scattered remnants of True Arrow scouts battling in it along w/ the mix of masses amount undead and enchanted beasties in it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for Fay Spire.....  Fayspire if its the same FaySpire from EQoA would not be the Tower of Frozen Shadow.. it would be the remenants of either the old elven city wich was far North on the old Tunarian map ... or maybe later Mayongs ex-lover takes the tower forherself making it ToFS....  (then again they may make a change to fit the EQ2 needs...lol)..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This tempts me to hop back on OA for a few hours getting some more screenshots.. just seeing the petrified body of Korigant/Kigathor(sp) laying 1/2 burried in the desert where he fell during the battle for Tak Hiz just outside its gates... is something awe inspiring to me...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://www.freewebs.com/tunarianoutcast/Hunt%20pic%202froze%202.jpg"></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh... and not to nitpick but the frogluck are Neutral to good races when you start EQoA (except ya know...the undead ones) people just slaughter them constantly for the yummy legs losing faction.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>... kono's site has some answers in it somewhere <EM>deep</EM> in it about Lore of EQoA, along w/ some tidbits on OA's mainsite.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><p>Message Edited by Porkchop133 on <span class=date_text>05-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:31 PM</span>

[WarShe]

<P>Takish Hiz I dont think was re-discovered until LDoN wasnt it? I may be off by one expansion im not sure on this but I am sure it was after PoP.</P> <P>Which means in EQ2 terms it hasnt been re-discovered yet, was underneath what was known as Northern Desert of Ro, South Ro, ect ect which is now as of EQ2 Desert of Flames content.</P> <P>I cant picture them adding more to DoF but any thing is possible I guess. :smileyhappy:</P>

[Cyrikk]

<div></div>In EQOA there was only one kind of Elf, however, the class you chose for your elf decided your starting city. If you were to choose a "traditionally wood-elf class" you would start in the rustic treetop city named Telethin (reguardless if it should of existed or not) And those that chose a "traditionally high-elf class" would start in the more established city named Fayspire. In Fayspire was ::gasp:: .....a huge tower! The location of this city on the old continent of Tunaria was NE.  didnt play EQlive long enough to see that "Tower of Frozen Shadow" of which is being suggested, but given the topic of this thread and Vhalens post Its seems pretty clear the tower this madman speaks of is the tower that shared the same name in EQOA. On a side note, anyone remember that quest early on in EQOA that depending on which action you chose you may or may-not release that "Frozen Wind" thingy (name escapes me ATM)? Cave wasnt too far from Fayspire and I remember a messege claiming I released a great evil at the end. Maybe that is what froze the tower so abruptly as suggested by Vhalen. Just grabbin straws tho, figured i'd throw that out there.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Cyrikk on <span class=date_text>05-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:57 PM</span>

[Sartredes]

<P>A map:</P> <P><IMG src="http://everquestonlineadventures.station.sony.com/images/maps/EQOAMapSmall.jpg"></P>

[Ktok]

<P>Fayspire was on what is called Antonica in EQ1 in the northern area.</P> <P>Tower of Frozen Shadows is on Velious. It's an entirely different continent, and way, *way* to the *south* of Antonica... there is absolutely no way taht Fayspire and Tower of Frozen Shadows could be the same, especially given that the lore of ToFS states that it was constructed of... you got it... frozen shadows. Not exactly a common building method of the High Elves <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[teddyboy4]

Oh wow, thank you SOOOO much Vhalen. Any lore that connects EQoA to the rest of the lore is awsome and much needed in my book. For those of you that don't know, Fayspire was the temporary home of the Elves after the majority of them abandoned thier ancient city of Takish'Hiz b/c of SolRo's curse. It served as the staging area for thier great trek across the Ocean of Tears and was situated just on the border of Winters Edge (I think that was it's name, my memory is a bit hazy but I think that was it's name) which was a zone that was planned but never made it into the final version of EQ, it was represented on the map, just wasn't there. Also interesting is at this time the first split between High and Wood Elves can be seen with the High Elves living in Fayspire, and the Wood Elves living in the city of Telethin not far away.I REALLY like that Vhalen pretty much just confirmed that EQoA lore should be taken as canon, of course with the usual limitations that apply that the stories told come from NPCs so they may be distorted a bit by point of view. Very interesting bit of lore there. It implies that Fayspire may still be standing somewhere, and that it may be a den of evil now since the Elves abandoned it so many years ago. Wow, how great would it be if we were to someday rediscover the lost city? IMO, there needs to be more connections between the different time eras that we have seen represented in the various games, and not just EQ.My goodness Cus, you've had a rough couple weeks huh? First the gods are returning which would never happen <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, and then a dev, but not just any dev mind you, THE Dev that serves as our font of lore on these boards just pretty much confirmed that EQoA should be taken seriously. I know you get touchy about things like this, but just know that I like and respect you. Also know that I intend no disrespect here, I just like giving you a little ribbing when stuff like this is revealed b/c you always refute such things with an air of authority and certainess. It's all good though, we still love ya, and the lore board wouldn't be the same without you <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Tarkin-Wretch]

<P>vhalen did NOT say eqoa lore was canon. Its implied the tower he spoke of is Fayspire.  Even if that is true it does not make eqoa lore canon.  The devs pick and choos what they want to apply to eq2.  eq1 pre PoP being canon just means they wont rewrite that lore.  it would be nice to see some more eqoa content rediscovered in eq2 but you can bet they wont use content that directly contradicts what they have already established in eq2.  the term established is relative though since as someone pointed out, many npc's tell varying versions of the same story and who is to say what is true except the devs themselves.</P>

[Rezikai]

<P>Eh... Cusa is kool, hell alot of Lore facts came from him when we could have spent hours digging through posts... </P> <P>oh and I was a little miffed at the gods "returning" to... I'd rather the powers of Norrath gather and see about creating newer Gods... or if we have to.. seeing the old gods.. UN-Goldike.. show them returning weak and pityfull.. as if they have been ravaged and defeated by time and by whatever powers that be... in the planes beyond and now.. must gather strength again .. giving the opportunity for the mortal races to rise to greater power</P> <P>eh.. I just like stirring the pot i guess </P>

[Sartredes]

<P>Another Pic:</P> <P><IMG src="http://everquestonlineadventures.station.sony.com/images/maps/Fayspire.jpg"></P>

[troodon]

<DIV>Why did the Elves build their new cities so far north?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> teddyboy420 wrote:<BR><BR>I REALLY like that Vhalen pretty much just confirmed that EQoA lore should be taken as canon, of course with the usual limitations that apply that the stories told come from NPCs so they may be distorted a bit by point of view. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Get real man.  He posted a bit about a <STRONG><EM>madman</EM></STRONG> claiming he'd seen Fayspire.  That's it.  Even if that does mean that Fayspire exists, it has nothing to do with whether or not the rest of EQoA (being the joke that it is) should be taken seriously.</P>

[teddyboy4]

Cusa is very cool, that's why I like giving em a hard time about some things, I wouldn't do it if I didn't like him.troodon, my friend, I think you are the one that should "get real". The mere fact that Vhalen even mentioned Fayspire means that the city is in "the" main lore books kept under lock and key in some vault at SOE, and thus is part of the story of the history of Norrath, and IS canon. He mentioned it in a story seen through the eyes of a resident of Norrath, the same as any other lore he gives us, and that's how I said it should be taken, the same as any other story he gives us...as something that DID take place, but the story may be slightly distored through the different tellings. Now, I realize this dosen't validate everything that occured in EQoA. But it does indeed validate EQoA IN GENERAL, as Fayspire was a main part of EQoA. No one, especially a Dev is ever going to come out and say that this and that definately happened or definately did not happen b/c they like to go back and change things. But we, being the recipients and not the tellers, must take what changes they make to the story as lore, as much as we may not like it. You may not like EQoA for whatever reason, but that dosen't change the fact that it DID happen, all you are doing is being closed minded and cutting yourself off from the whole story. I just don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to know the whole story and cling to the parts they think they know, when in reality that may not be what happened at all.I like to take the WHOLE picture into consideration when looking for what really happened. Not small bits and pieces I was told at first that may turn out to not be true later, just b/c I didn't experience it first hand. All I'm saying is that everyone should keep an open mind on these things and not close yourself off to certain possibilites when they may in fact turn out to be the truth.

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>I admit I do tend to become arrogant at times, but I do have to say that for this thread, I didn't "state as a fact" as it were about the EQOA thing. I asked a question, because I thought I heard someone say that it wasn't.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That arrogance just... tends to strike back with a bitter sting whenever I have to be corrected.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are some elements I welcome from EQOA. I don't mind the existance of Feyspire or stuff like that. We all know the elves used to live on Antonica a long time ago, and it's within reason..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But there are a lot of other things that are quite controdictory to many things established in EQlive...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Moridhim, Klik'Anon, Highbourne....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as the Erudites go, we know they evolved from Humans, but it's just never actually been mentioned, implied, or otherwise shown that the Erudites originally lived in a city near Qeynos before they went off to found Erudin. I mean wouldn't we have seen plenty of evidence of a city that only existed just slightly south or North or whatever from Qeynos??</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the gnomes and Dwarves, it's the same situation really. It's never really been stated whether or not the Dwarves and Gnomes were created on Feydwere or what. Just like the Erudites, there's no lore anywhere in EQ2 or EQlive that says they existed there otherwise or not.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But quite frankly, I think they only put in those 3 cities just so they had an excuse for Dwarves, Erudites, and Gnomes to be playable races in EQOA.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've never played EQOA. I don't know anything about it so I'm in no position to say what's right or wrong about it.</DIV>

[Themaginator]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Vhalen wrote:<div></div>Norrathians have returned from the treacherous seas in the northern territories of the Shattered Lands. With them came wondrous tales of sights never seen One of these tales is said to be a glint of light in a deep frozen atoll. The chill of that fills the bowl formed by the steep cliffs of the atoll makes visibility nearly impossible, yet, a ship dared to brave the mist. What they found was deadly to say the least. Only one sailor made it back, the same cannot be said for his sanity. He ended up in the padded cells of the Freeport Infirmary and Asylum. He told a tale of a glint of light shining in the mist. His captain forced the ship into the thick white fog and onward to this glint. They found a frozen tower, an elven tower. This tower seemed to offer no access, but apparently it did withstand a powerful blast of cold wind. This blast froze the tower, made evident by the long thick icicles that stretch off to one side. The sailor said they found a breach within the icy armor of the tower. They all entered, but only one made it out. His mind gone, all he could mutter was the word, "Fayspire". How such a madman managed to sail that ship out of there is a mystery just like the frozen atoll that cannot be found on any map.<hr></blockquote>thats not TOFS its Fayspire...duh...he said Fayspire right there no argument about it...That is EQoA therefore this shows taht EQoA lore is accesible to be put in the EQ2 story</div><p>Message Edited by Themaginator on <span class=date_text>05-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:11 PM</span>

[Ama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vhalen wrote:<BR> Norrathians have returned from the treacherous seas in the northern territories of the Shattered Lands. With them came wondrous tales of sights never seen One of these tales is said to be a glint of light in a deep frozen atoll. The chill of that fills the bowl formed by the steep cliffs of the atoll makes visibility nearly impossible, yet, a ship dared to brave the mist. What they found was deadly to say the least. Only one sailor made it back, the same cannot be said for his sanity. He ended up in the padded cells of the Freeport Infirmary and Asylum. He told a tale of a glint of light shining in the mist. His captain forced the ship into the thick white fog and onward to this glint. <FONT color=#ff0000>They found a frozen tower, an elven tower. This tower seemed to offer no access, but apparently it did withstand a powerful blast of cold wind. This blast froze the tower, made evident by the long thick icicles that stretch off to one side. The sailor said they found a breach within the icy armor of the tower. They all entered, but only one made it out. His mind gone, all he could mutter was the word, "Fayspire". </FONT><FONT color=#66ff00>How such a madman managed to sail that ship out of there is a mystery just like the frozen atoll that cannot be found on any map.<BR></FONT> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>There is a good validation here that as many of you remember past The Elven City was a small artic region.  It is quite possible that over time that icy area overtook The Elven City thus we have Vhalen's bit of lore here.  Thus we have our Frozen tower "an elven tower" with the crazed madman uttering the word "Fayspire".  My question is what horror could be unleashed upon that place as to cause a group of people to dissappear and 1 man to return nothing more than a shell of a former self is a complete mystery to me. </P> <P>Maybe somewhere amongst the tombs of knowledge that are out there we can discover this little interesting fact. </P> <P>As for the last part I do find it quite interesting that Vhalen says "Just like the frozen atoll that cannot be found on any map." Makes me wonder if during the shattering some great evil got let loose on The Elven city and it is now somewhere else entirely. To give some backing to what i'm getting at many of my EQOA bretheren will remember the armor quest that many of us undertook.  One such quest was within The Elven city where we had to venture into the swamps to find an evil mage and to bring her amulet back as proof that we had defeated her. </P> <P>We also had access to Aka'non in EQOA with the gnomes co existing peacefully and harmoniously with their clock work inventions.  There were only a few rogue ones at the time, hopefully EoF will answer some lore and tales about that as well as the Tree Top village that was close to the main Elvan City. <BR></P>

[Rezikai]

<P>glad to see Cusa's opinion.. which for the most part i believe with.. "parts" of EQoA will be used.... and for the record i agree w/him thinking they added Klick, Mord, Highboune for the use of those 3 races... and the parts of EQoA they wouldnt use.. like.. Lycanthropy....</P> <P>in EQoA the Werewolf,and the generic (insert)-were monsters in Tunaria/Antonica were able to be obtained by players... they would become a Lycan.. and in that would loose a nice bit of faction w/every city in the game.. and the city would have Were-hunters in them.. and as well players could become a Were-hunter to hunt against the Lycans...</P> <P>Stuff like that which never really existed outside of EQoA i'd rather they keep there...  as here it wouldnt fit in as well.. also.. I think a major reason Valen acts cryptic about EQoA is the timline... 1k years in our past... that mixed w/the "part" uses of its Lore means the Devs probably want to keep a direct EQoA -EQ1-EQ2 Cryptic.... since.. it was 1k -ish years in our past.</P>

[Mordock of the Highwynd]

<P>Cusa, I respect your opinion.  Now, to explain about the city of Moradhim.  It is merely an outpost of Kaladim, and as I went around in my early days, since EQOA was my first MMO, I saw at least one NPC mention Kaladim.  I had no idea what a Kaladim was, so I just ignored it.</P> <P>I do not know about Klik`Anon, so I will not explain that.</P> <P>Fayspires and Telethin was just a temporary city.  They were planning to stage a mass exodus to the continent of Faydwer.  Obviously after they completed the migration, something bad happened to the Fayspires.</P> <P>Highborne...I don't feel like going into.  In the game, it was only about five minutes worth of running.  It was a <STRONG>very</STRONG> little ways from Qeynos, so I don't know.  Maybe it was close enough that in the grand scheme of things, it wasn't even worth calling it a seperate name.</P> <P>And about the Lycanthropy thing, yes, the mechanics of changing into a lycan or a were-hunter were horrid. I for one hated how that played out.  The main story that played out though, this being the Unkempt and the birth of lycanthropy have been in EQ lore since EQlive.  You can find the books on this story in the Plane of Knowledge.</P> <P>I will admit, there are many things that contradict EQlive lore.  But I will consider the lore put in at release of EQOA to EQOA: F To be canon, at least for my character, until a dev comes out and says that it never happened.</P>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mordock of the Highwynd wrote:<BR> <P>Cusa, I respect your opinion.  Now, to explain about the city of Moradhim.  It is merely an outpost of Kaladim, and as I went around in my early days, since EQOA was my first MMO, I saw at least one NPC mention Kaladim.  I had no idea what a Kaladim was, so I just ignored it.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ok now you see that's what I want to know. You say that Moradhim was just an outpost for the dwarves, and they fully acknowledge the existance of thier home city of Kaladim.</P> <P> </P> <P>That's fine with me then.</P>

[teddyboy4]

<div><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div>I admit I do tend to become arrogant at times, but I do have to say that for this thread, I didn't "state as a fact" as it were about the EQOA thing. I asked a question, because I thought I heard someone say that it wasn't.</div><div> </div><div>That arrogance just... tends to strike back with a bitter sting whenever I have to be corrected.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>There are some elements I welcome from EQOA. I don't mind the existance of Feyspire or stuff like that. We all know the elves used to live on Antonica a long time ago, and it's within reason..</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>But there are a lot of other things that are quite controdictory to many things established in EQlive...</div><div> </div><div>Moridhim, Klik'Anon, Highbourne....</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>As far as the Erudites go, we know they evolved from Humans, but it's just never actually been mentioned, implied, or otherwise shown that the Erudites originally lived in a city near Qeynos before they went off to found Erudin. I mean wouldn't we have seen plenty of evidence of a city that only existed just slightly south or North or whatever from Qeynos??</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>As for the gnomes and Dwarves, it's the same situation really. It's never really been stated whether or not the Dwarves and Gnomes were created on Feydwere or what. Just like the Erudites, there's no lore anywhere in EQ2 or EQlive that says they existed there otherwise or not.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>But quite frankly, I think they only put in those 3 cities just so they had an excuse for Dwarves, Erudites, and Gnomes to be playable races in EQOA.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>I've never played EQOA. I don't know anything about it so I'm in no position to say what's right or wrong about it.</div><hr></blockquote>Aww, there's nothing wrong with you speaking your mind, even with a bit of arrogance, especially when you think you are right beyond doubt. Don't lit the sting get to you Cus, we all enjoy your prenscence here and I for one wouldn't have these boards any other way <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I agree with you on some points here, especially about Moradhim and Klik'Anon being created only to justify the Dwarves and Gnomes inclusion in the game. Actually, if I remember correctly it does state somewhere that even though both the Dwarves and Gnomes ranged far and wide in thier native home of the underfoot, they first broke through to the surface on Faydwer and that was the first place contact was made with both races. As you say, it is entirely possible that they did have cities on Tunaria (later named Antonica), as Faydwer was known and explored at this time, and both races had broken to the surface there as there is mention in both Klik'Anon and Moradhim of thier racial homes on Faydwer. The only thing I can say about these two cities to justify thier existence is that the world changes, maybe the Dwarves made a miscalculation and Moradhim collapsed in on itself. And we know the clockworks eventually revolted against the Gnomes, so maybe Klik'Anon was destroyed in this revolt. Anything can be explained away in some fashion, but I still do agree that these cities were most likely only there to justify thier races inclusion.As for Highbourne, this city makes much more sense than the Dwarven and Gnomish cities. See, it wasn't even really a city, it was more a camp than anything else, a staging area for thier long trip across the sea. That's why there would be no evidence of it, there simply wasn't much to it to begin with and they weren't there very long. The Erudites, or Highmen as they were reffered to at that time, had just started to seperate themselves from the men of Qeynos and made thier trek to Odus not long after EQoA started.As for Fayspire and Telethin, I am pretty sure that these places were at least mentioned, if only in passing, somewhere in EQ. There is also a strong case for these cities existence as I think Brad himself mentioned them and that where they were located, a place called Winters Edge was in the original design documents for EQ but never made it into the final game much like the zone between the exit of Blackburrow and Everfrost. I know anything can be explained by simply saying that things change as time passes, or refuted by saying there was no trace or mention of them in EQ. I am not  asking anyone to accept this as fact or canon really, I would just like everyone to keep an open mind to the possibility and not right off what has become a major part of Norraths history. Cus, you are probably right that the 3 cities you mention were probably created simply to justify thier races inclusion, especially as they aren't ever really mentioned anywhere else. But Fayspire at least was mentioned elsewhere, and now we have our resident "lore master" telling us stories about a crew that found the ruins of Fayspire, specifically THE Fayspire tower!!! To me, that gives all the lore in the game a bit more wieght, but removes beyond a shadow of a doubt that Fayspire did indeed exist. </div><p>Message Edited by teddyboy420 on <span class=date_text>05-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:39 AM</span>

[TheManInTheBox]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div>I admit I do tend to become arrogant at times, but I do have to say that for this thread, I didn't "state as a fact" as it were about the EQOA thing. I asked a question, because I thought I heard someone say that it wasn't.</div> <div> </div> <div>That arrogance just... tends to strike back with a bitter sting whenever I have to be corrected.</div> <hr></blockquote><font face="Comic Sans MS">Like the poster above me said. Don't let it get to you in any form. We are all free to speak our minds on these boards about what we believe. There will be many times when we are wrong, and when we are right. There should be no shame for anyone to be wrong about lore. In fact EverQuest's lore is built around the fact that nothing is really "<b>canon</b>"For all we know Quellious the child of Tranquility is really a different god in disguise waiting to let go a blood feast on Norrath one day. ( Just an example. ) Its all speculation and what we take it as. Thats what makes it fun. So what if Vhalen says this, and that. Like one of his posts, it could be tooken as a sailor's tale. Sure they give lore background here and there. It can be changed or explained differently from another person's point of view. I believe Vhalen discussed different concepts from people on Norrathian lore. One certain race believes one thing, another believes something completely different about something..I know Vhalen, and the other developers get their kicks watching us discuss the in-game lore with our own thoughts/opinions/ideas. Vhalen especially with his teaser information he throws here in this forum on an almost daily basis. Sometimes just so he can spark the conversation up, and just watch the discussion. Somebody really needs to break into his office at SOE and find his office desk/computer and rob it clean. I'll pay $10.00 for the first person who can manage to accomplish it. <span>:smileywink:</span>Yeah Cusa, you are pretty arrogant at times. But its nothing someone should rub your nose in sh*t about it. But like what a person said in another thread about the gods returning. Just take it as friends picking with you sometimes. <span><span>:smileyvery-happy:</span></span>If I ever believe something about lore and post my mind about it, and it turns out wrong. I am not gonna stress. People can throw stuff in my face about me being wrong all they want. Its a game, and I don't create it. I play it, enjoy it, and learn about it. I never intend to be the all knowing lore master of the game. There is waaaay too much for me. I've got enough real life events/things going in my head to cram all the EQ lore in there. <span>:smileyhappy:</span></font></div><p>Message Edited by TheManInTheBox on <span class=date_text>05-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:26 PM</span>

[Nocturnal Aby]

<P>Alright, fairly new to posting on these forums, but, if you'll take a look, I've been doing quite a bit of it.  I fancy myself to know a thing or two about EQ lore, and have been playing Everquest since Kunark was released.  I've read every tome I can get my hands on in both Everquest, and Everquest 2, and, like many other EQ veterans, do not like EQOA lore, which I will get into in a little bit.</P> <P>Cusa, I will be frank, sometimes, you seem a like an uptight [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], but the fact that you admitted you can be arrogant has GREATLY increased my opinion of you, not that that means anything, afterall, who the heck am I?  But from one lore-snob to another, I salute you!  Just remember, laugh at your mistakes, and admit them freely!  A lesson I have been hard pressed to learn!</P> <P>Now, onto EQOA, I've had this discussion many times, starting way back in EQ, and was usually fairly successful in convincing people of my point.  Let me state this clearly and upfront, I have no problem with the exact lore (beit places, events, and people) of EQOA.  The ONE thing that drives me insane, is actually the same thing that makes me mad about EQ2, and I have mentioned it elsewhere (think on a post about racial ages).  With the lifespan most of the races, there would be living witnesses, written documentation, evidence of all sorts, of the events that took place!  In some cases, like Fayspire, I would be hardpressed to give a reason while it's still not an elven outpost in EQ, and if something drastic had happened to it (When Vhalen mentioned Ice blasted, I pictured some spell, or something similar having blasted it so that all the icicles are pointed away from the blast origin..nevermind, not describing it clearly), then there would be witnesses, survivors mentioning it, etc!  In fact, there might be quests in Everquest to help those of Fayspire, or at least MENTION of the catastrophe....but there is nothing.  In some respects, Klok'Anon almost looks like it could be the Solusek Mine Co, and if they were smart, that is the direction EQOA would have gone with it, but that didn't happen.  Had Moradhin(sp) existed, we should still be able to explore the mines there, even if they had failed!</P> <P>Highbourne, there is the tiniest bit of leeway, in that we could NEVER get behind the city of Qeynos, so who knows what was there, could have been several fishing villages built in the ruins of Highbourne, but the fact that there is, again, no mention of it, even in Erudite texts (even if it was temporary, the fact that has existed so long in EQOA makes it not so temporary).  Not to mention that in Everquest, Miragul's influence seems to have dated back much longer than 500 years, and he was taught in Paineel, where in EQOA, the Erudites haven't even left Tunaria yet.</P> <P>I have no problem with what happens, I have a problem with how close together SONY makes them happen.  In other sources, I have heard ages of High elves averaging 700, and on some, albeit uncommon, instances, being around 1000 years old.  Dark elves are a close 2nd with an average age of 620-650ish, the problem is, as these are average life spans, that there are enough who live older to compensate for those who die younger, meaning you have a lot of would be witnesses who don't seem to know anything about what happened when they were young trotters.</P>

[troodon]

<DIV> <DIV>Oye.  I had a longer post, complete with a joke about an Elven city named "Porkchop", but my computer froze on it.... so I'm going to be rather briefer than I had planned.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P></P> <P>teddyboy420 wrote:<BR><BR>troodon, my friend, I think you are the one that should "get real". The mere fact that Vhalen even mentioned Fayspire means that the city is in "the" main lore books kept under lock and key in some vault at SOE, and thus is part of the story of the history of Norrath, and IS canon. He mentioned it in a story seen through the eyes of a resident of Norrath, the same as any other lore he gives us, and that's how I said it should be taken, the same as any other story he gives us...as something that DID take place, but the story may be slightly distored through the different tellings.<BR><BR>Now, I realize this dosen't validate everything that occured in EQoA. But it does indeed validate EQoA IN GENERAL, as Fayspire was a main part of EQoA.</P> <P></P> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The fact is that the existance of one city from EQoA does nothing to change the, as you put it, whole picture.  EQoA contradicts EQ1 and EQ2 lore in numerous ways that others and I have outlined in various threads on these and the pre-release boards.  They can include all kinds of zones and mobs and items from EQoA, but it doesn't change the fact that the timeline just doesn't make sense.</P> <P>I've said it countless times before; if you EQoA guys, or anyone else for that matter, want to try and reconcile this stuff I say go for it.  For me, an EQ1 vet since 2000, I am going to take EQ1 lore over EQoA every day of the week and twice on Sundays.  For you guys your priorities are different.  I understand that and I can relate to it.  In fact, you guys don't even really have to try and reconcile EQoA lore with EQ1... you can just ignore it, so that probably makes it even easier for you.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><BR><BR></P> <P></P> <HR> No one, especially a Dev is ever going to come out and say that this and that definately happened or definately did not happen b/c they like to go back and change things. But we, being the recipients and not the tellers, must take what changes they make to the story as lore, as much as we may not like it. You may not like EQoA for whatever reason, but that dosen't change the fact that it DID happen <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Even if Vhalen or any other DEV did come in here and say "EQoA is canon, shut up troodon", it wouldn't change the facts we have to deal with.  Elddar Elves wouldn't all of a sudden appear in EQ1, the Elves wouldn't all of a sudden have fled Tunaria <EM>after</EM> the rise and fall of the Combine Empire, Qeynos and Freeport wouldn't all of a sudden be built in a different age, and Erudites wouldn't all of a sudden discover necromancy before they arrived on Odus (just to name a few inconsistencies).  You guys might all of a sudden feel better and all of a sudden feel vindicated in some way, but EQoA would be just as out-of-place as it had been before.</P> <P>I suddenly hate the phrase "all of a sudden" :smileytongue:</P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><BR></P> <P></P> <HR> <P></P> <P>all you are doing is being closed minded and cutting yourself off from the whole story. I just don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to know the whole story and cling to the parts they think they know, when in reality that may not be what happened at all.</P> <P></P> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I don't think I'm being close minded, I'm just looking at the whole of Everquest lore; something, ironically, that you suggest that I do.</P></DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by troodon on <span class=date_text>05-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:02 AM</span>

[troodon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mordock of the Highwynd wrote:<BR> <P>The main story that played out though, this being the Unkempt and the birth of lycanthropy have been in EQ lore since EQlive. </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Not quite.  The book the story is in was released with the PoP expansion and you can read it here: <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=98&query" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=98&query</A></P> <P>It talks about bear-people and wolf-people, but it makes no mention of lycanthropy whatsoever.  That was added to the story by the EQoA guys.</P>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nocturnal Abyss wrote:<BR> <P>Highbourne, there is the tiniest bit of leeway, in that we could NEVER get behind the city of Qeynos, so who knows what was there, could have been several fishing villages built in the ruins of Highbourne, but the fact that there is, again, no mention of it, even in Erudite texts (even if it was temporary, the fact that has existed so long in EQOA makes it not so temporary).  Not to mention that in Everquest, Miragul's influence seems to have dated back much longer than 500 years, and he was taught in Paineel, where in EQOA, the Erudites haven't even left Tunaria yet.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Miragul's lore alludes that at least 300 years (I say 300 to be on the safe side, but the story in general made it sound like THOUSANDS) had passed before Miragul finally discovered from Paineel that necromancy's ultimate power was the ability to raise the dead (and hence his plan to turn himself into a Lich followed).</P> <P> </P> <P>Heck. The story of Miragul really kinda just throws EQOA right out the window.</P>

[Ama]

<DIV>Well EQOA has merit as different styles of lore but I think the main point is that several pieces need to be "on shakey ground" so that something can be a miss.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm still hovering over what vhalen said about the mad man being in the Freeport Asylum uttering the word "Fayspire".  In EQOA the treetop elven area which trained druids as well as rangers was right near the main Elven City.  If I had to make any kind of rough guess it was only 100 meters from the treetop village if you swam there. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is possible that the dwarven city, Erudite City, and others were placed there just for the sake of those races but that might create controversy amongst some people.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Highbourne was the place you stayed in if you were an Erudite and strangely enough it had a tropical/savana type look like the area of Freeport in EQ2. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Dwarven City on the other hand I have no clue about because it is dug into the side of a mountain.  Barbarians thrive in Halas their home city with many people there training up and coming recruits. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have to say it gets weird when you venture into EQOA Frontiers because thats when the Oggre race was introduced with their home city of Oggok *I believe that is it not 100% sure*. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The biggest interest for me personally is the land of Arcaydin with the big man himself Erud there governing it all.  He talks about Arcaydin becoming a becon for all sentient beings to come to in order to study and learn.  Almost makes me think that as Arcaydin progress it later because Erudin as Erud passes on. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then in the beloved City of Qeynos we have Antonious Bayle II speaking with Erudite Diplomats as said. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EQOA has a ton of lore within in supposedly being the 500 year old past of EQ1 and who knows how many year old past of EQ2 since the time line split. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm deffinately going to have to go into game and explore some of the areas that are within EQOA again.  Strangely enough it is with Frontiers that we see the Kerrans, and the mighty Kobold race.  </DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Yep, the Ogre's home city was Oggok. Nothing incorrect there.</DIV>

[Ama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>Yep, the Ogre's home city was Oggok. Nothing incorrect there.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Kewl just wanted to make sure on that little note.  The only thing that was absent from EQOA was the Roekillik, and Iksar to my knowledge.</P> <P>Elves were in there however it was just 1 single group of elves there were no half-elfs, high-elfs or wood-elfs.  It is quite plausible that the Elven city if you go deeper was populated by High Elves, the Wood-Elves inhabited the tree top villages outside of the elven city Faydwere but that just leaves out the Half-Elfs who as suggested by there name I guess are half elf half human. </P> <P>I have a feeling Echoes of Faydwere will answer some of the questions I have about EQOA and its possible references to EQ1/EQ2 time line. The reason being there is the tree top village, the crush bone orcs *very familiar*, aka'non and I assume the remains of Faydwere the elven city.</P>

[Thax]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Half elves are not truly a race of their own, not in the sense that they suddenly appeared all together.  They come from the mating of humans and elves, be it high elf or wood elf.</P> <P>I think mostly likely the only bits that will be familiar to the EQOA crowd is the base lore from EQ1, whether ever revealed in game or not, that EQOA took and expanded when it launched.</P></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Thax wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Half elves are not truly a race of their own, not in the sense that they suddenly appeared all together.  They come from the mating of humans and elves, be it high elf or wood elf.</P> <P>I think mostly likely the only bits that will be familiar to the EQOA crowd is the base lore from EQ1, whether ever revealed in game or not, that EQOA took and expanded when it launched.</P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Or Dark Elf.

[Ama]

<DIV>Dark Elves were a playable race in EQOA but they had Neriak and its many different areas.  There is one particular area that is very interesting and I will try to take one day to get a picture of it. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is a huge room with 2 big doors that are sealed shut by a force and from what it sounds like the force that was behind that door ended up killing Neriak.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am quite perplexed though as to why it is named Klick'anon instead of Ak'anon like I previously though.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*I will continue later after some research.*</DIV>

[teddyboy4]

<div><blockquote><blockquote><hr>Amana wrote:<div>There is one particular area that is very interesting and I will try to take one day to get a picture of it. </div> <div> </div> <div>It is a huge room with 2 big doors that are sealed shut by a force and from what it sounds like the force that was behind that door ended up killing Neriak.  </div> <div> </div> <div>I am quite perplexed though as to why it is named Klick'anon instead of Ak'anon like I previously though.  </div> <div> </div> <div>*I will continue later after some research.*</div><hr>Klik'Anon is the name of the Gnomish city on Tunaria/Antonica, while Ak'ANon was the Gnomish home city on Faydwer.</blockquote></blockquote></div>

[Ama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> teddyboy420 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amana wrote:<BR> <DIV>There is one particular area that is very interesting and I will try to take one day to get a picture of it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is a huge room with 2 big doors that are sealed shut by a force and from what it sounds like the force that was behind that door ended up killing Neriak. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am quite perplexed though as to why it is named Klick'anon instead of Ak'anon like I previously though. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*I will continue later after some research.*</DIV><BR> <HR> <BR>Klik'Anon is the name of the Gnomish city on Tunaria/Antonica, while Ak'ANon was the Gnomish home city on Faydwer.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ahh I see thanks for the information about that little tid bit.  That deffinately gives more backing to the lost City of Ak'anon in the new expansion.</P> <P>I also have a sinking feeling Faydwere will be the main place of our epic weapons in EoF if they exist.  Rivervale is more or less intact but is besiged by evil creatures and those creatures being the Nightbloods, Lamias, as well as evil tainted creatures. </P> <P>I still remember Vhalen's Quote saying "Everything has been pre destined, pre ordained, and pre written within the realm we know as Norrath".  The Question is what will we find out from our past that may lead to our future within the realm of Norrath.<BR></P>

[Nocturnal Aby]

<P>I believe when Cusa mentioned "dark elf," he was refering to half elves being the offspring of a High Elf, Wood Elf, and human, he was saying that High Elf, Wood Elf, and Dark Elf, mating with a human, can create a Half Elf.</P> <P>Edit: Yes, thanks Cusa, that's what I get for watching TV while trying to type <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Switched the last word to Half Elf</P><p>Message Edited by Nocturnal Abyss on <span class=date_text>05-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:22 PM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nocturnal Abyss wrote:<BR> I believe when Cusa mentioned "dark elf," he was refering to half elves being the offspring of a High Elf, Wood Elf, and human, he was saying that High Elf, Wood Elf, and Dark Elf, mating with a human, can create a Human.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You mean half elf, and yes, thats what I was talking about.

[Nocturnal Aby]

In case there are others who had played EQOA, and not EQ, the next expansion, Echoes of Faydwer, is happening on Faydwer, which is (if I understand EQOA correctly) where most of the elves have gone to.  The cities of Faydwer included Kaladim, city of the dwarves, and where I believe they have been living since they began trotting on the surface of Norrath, Kelethin, tree city of the wood elves (and now the Fae), Felwithe, alabaster city of the High Elves, and Ak'Anon, traditional home of the gnomes (I have read some stories of how they were lead to this home by a High Elf hero, who defeated the dragon that originally dwelt in the caves, and before this, they were living on the shores of I <EM>think</EM> Lake Elizerain, but it was an unreliable source, and, like the Broken Crown lore, possibly pre-beta or fanfic, suffice to say, the gnomes have been living in Ak'Anon for a REALLY long time).

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nocturnal Abyss wrote:<BR> In case there are others who had played EQOA, and not EQ, the next expansion, Echoes of Faydwer, is happening on Faydwer, which is (if I understand EQOA correctly) where most of the elves have gone to.  The cities of Faydwer included Kaladim, city of the dwarves, and where I believe they have been living since they began trotting on the surface of Norrath, Kelethin, tree city of the wood elves (and now the Fae), Felwithe, alabaster city of the High Elves, and Ak'Anon, traditional home of the gnomes (I have read some stories of how they were lead to this home by a High Elf hero, who defeated the dragon that originally dwelt in the caves, and before this, they were living on the shores of I <EM>think</EM> Lake Elizerain, but it was an unreliable source, and, like the Broken Crown lore, possibly pre-beta or fanfic, suffice to say, the gnomes have been living in Ak'Anon for a REALLY long time).<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>OK cool, so it is confirmed in EQOA that Kaladim, Felwithe, Kelethin, and Ak'Anon do exist.</P> <P> </P> <P>So I was right after all. They only added in those cities into EQOA so they could play as those races.</P>

[Ama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nocturnal Abyss wrote:<BR> In case there are others who had played EQOA, and not EQ, the next expansion, Echoes of Faydwer, is happening on Faydwer, which is (if I understand EQOA correctly) where most of the elves have gone to.  The cities of Faydwer included Kaladim, city of the dwarves, and where I believe they have been living since they began trotting on the surface of Norrath, Kelethin, tree city of the wood elves (and now the Fae), Felwithe, alabaster city of the High Elves, and Ak'Anon, traditional home of the gnomes (I have read some stories of how they were lead to this home by a High Elf hero, who defeated the dragon that originally dwelt in the caves, and before this, they were living on the shores of I <EM>think</EM> Lake Elizerain, but it was an unreliable source, and, like the Broken Crown lore, possibly pre-beta or fanfic, suffice to say, the gnomes have been living in Ak'Anon for a REALLY long time).<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>OK cool, so it is confirmed in EQOA that Kaladim, Felwithe, Kelethin, and Ak'Anon do exist.</P> <P> </P> <P>So I was right after all. They only added in those cities into EQOA so they could play as those races.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Rofl, I don't think they were added just so you could play those races but what puzzles me is the names.  Right now Arcaydin strangely looks like Erudin I believe. </P> <P>I do believe though we will have to wait for EoF to see about the past histories that may involve EQOA.  Vhalen was deffinately mysterious again only giving us enough information to keep us guessing but guessing on the right track.  I deffinately believe EoF will hold a line of quests around the Fayspire that resided in the Elven City. <BR></P>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Amana wrote:</P> <P>Right now Arcaydin strangely looks like Erudin I believe. </P> <P>I do believe though we will have to wait for EoF to see about the past histories that may involve EQOA.  Vhalen was deffinately mysterious again only giving us enough information to keep us guessing but guessing on the right track.  I deffinately believe EoF will hold a line of quests around the Fayspire that resided in the Elven City. <BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I don't think EQ2 is gonna bother going into EQOA detail. It barely has as it stands.</P> <P> </P> <P>As for Erudin, it was stated from numerous NPC's in EQlive that Erudin is named after Erud, "Father of the Erudites"</P>

[Ama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Amana wrote:</P> <P>Right now Arcaydin strangely looks like Erudin I believe. </P> <P>I do believe though we will have to wait for EoF to see about the past histories that may involve EQOA.  Vhalen was deffinately mysterious again only giving us enough information to keep us guessing but guessing on the right track.  I deffinately believe EoF will hold a line of quests around the Fayspire that resided in the Elven City. <BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I don't think EQ2 is gonna bother going into EQOA detail. It barely has as it stands.</P> <P> </P> <P>As for Erudin, it was stated from numerous NPC's in EQlive that Erudin is named after Erud, "Father of the Erudites"</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Well thats the thing, I don't think its EQOA lore but the actual "Lore and History" of EverQuest itself. </P> <P>Also thx for the info about Erudin being named after Erud, what this does is solidify my idea about what occured.  I believe that Erud lived during the time EQOA transpired and after his death they later renamed Arcaydin to Erudin to honor his name like you say "Father of Erudites".</P> <P>The reason being you can go in game and meet Erud himself where he will talk about the lore of Arcaydin.  Erud also discusses his dream and purpose for Arcaydin hoping to turn it into a beacon for the enlightened to travel too.  The only part that was really strange about EQOA is that Highbourne the Erudite starting city was the only one I know of that could have Conjurors, Necromancers, Paladins and Shadowknights all in the same boat.  Strangely though I believe Conjurors were called Magicians and there were only enchanters.  Illusionists and Coercers never existed during the time of EQOA but that could be because of game mechanics or from a lore standpoint that trade wasn't developed fully. </P>

[Thax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amana wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Amana wrote:</P> <P>Right now Arcaydin strangely looks like Erudin I believe. </P> <P>I do believe though we will have to wait for EoF to see about the past histories that may involve EQOA.  Vhalen was deffinately mysterious again only giving us enough information to keep us guessing but guessing on the right track.  I deffinately believe EoF will hold a line of quests around the Fayspire that resided in the Elven City. <BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I don't think EQ2 is gonna bother going into EQOA detail. It barely has as it stands.</P> <P> </P> <P>As for Erudin, it was stated from numerous NPC's in EQlive that Erudin is named after Erud, "Father of the Erudites"</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Well thats the thing, I don't think its EQOA lore but the actual "Lore and History" of EverQuest itself. </P> <P>Also thx for the info about Erudin being named after Erud, what this does is solidify my idea about what occured.  I believe that Erud lived during the time EQOA transpired and after his death they later renamed Arcaydin to Erudin to honor his name like you say "Father of Erudites".</P> <P>The reason being you can go in game and meet Erud himself where he will talk about the lore of Arcaydin.  Erud also discusses his dream and purpose for Arcaydin hoping to turn it into a beacon for the enlightened to travel too.  The only part that was really strange about EQOA is that Highbourne the Erudite starting city was the only one I know of that could have Conjurors, Necromancers, Paladins and Shadowknights all in the same boat.  <FONT color=#ffff33>Strangely though I believe Conjurors were called Magicians and there were only enchanters.  Illusionists and Coercers never existed during the time of EQOA but that could be because of game mechanics or from a lore standpoint that trade wasn't developed fully. </FONT></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>EQ2 took some basic classes from previous games and expanded some of them.   Never messed with EQOA, but from EQ1 to EQ2 you've got:</P> <P>EQ1 Class -------------> EQ2 Class(es)</P> <P>Magician ------------> Conjuror<BR>Wizard --------------> Wizard and Warlock<BR>Enchanter ----------> Illusionist and Coercer<BR>Necromancer ------> Necromancer</P> <P>Cleric ----------------> Templar and Inquisitor<BR>Druid -----------------> Fury and Warden<BR>Shaman -------------> Mystic and Defiler</P> <P>Rogue ---------------> Swashbuckler and Brigand<BR>Ranger --------------> Ranger and Assassin<BR>Bard -----------------> Troubador and Dirge</P> <P>Monk -----------------> Monk and Bruiser<BR>Paladin --------------> Paladin<BR>Shadowknight -----> Shadowknight<BR>Warrior -------------> Guardian (and arguably Berserker)<BR>Berserker ----------> Berserker</P> <P>Beastlord ----------> Not implemented</P>

[Nocturnal Aby]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Thax wrote:<BR> <BR> <P><BR>EQ2 took some basic classes from previous games and expanded some of them.   Never messed with EQOA, but from EQ1 to EQ2 you've got:</P> <P>EQ1 Class -------------> EQ2 Class(es)</P> <P>Magician ------------> Conjuror<BR>Wizard --------------> Wizard and Warlock<BR>Enchanter ----------> Illusionist and Coercer<BR>Necromancer ------> Necromancer</P> <P>Cleric ----------------> Templar and Inquisitor<BR>Druid -----------------> Fury and Warden<BR>Shaman -------------> Mystic and Defiler</P> <P>Rogue ---------------> Swashbuckler and Brigand<BR>Ranger --------------> Ranger and Assassin<BR>Bard -----------------> Troubador and Dirge</P> <P>Monk -----------------> Monk and Bruiser<BR>Paladin --------------> Paladin<BR>Shadowknight -----> Shadowknight<BR>Warrior -------------> Guardian (and arguably Berserker)<BR>Berserker ----------> Berserker</P> <P>Beastlord ----------> Not implemented</P> <P><BR></P> <HR> <P></P> <P>Yes and no, on some of them, some of the classes are more like combinations, the Warlock, for instance, although similar to the wizard in that their spells are primarilly direct damage inflicted on the oponant, use a lot of the poison and disease spells that were common to the Necromancer.  Also, the Assassin is actually more similar to the rogue in EQ, the brigand and swashbuckler classes are fairly unique, with the exception of them doing back attacks, and disarming traps, but all scout classes do that.  I suppose you could also add that now they can both pickpocket, thanks to an AA ability, but that obviously wasn't added until KoS, when AAs were put into the game.  You also pointed out how berserkers are something of a combination of the warrior and berserker class from EQ, and I'd like to argue that point further, since the berserkers in EQ could only where chainmail, and most of their attacks were ranged based, having to do with various throwing axes they could obtain.  In fact, the only real thing EQ2 berserkers have in common with EQ berserkers is the name.</P> <P>Although the classes of EQ2 may be related in some way (sometimes very loosely) to classes in EQ, and I'd wager EQOA as well, SONY has done a wonderful job making the classes distinctly their own.  In EQ, shamen didn't have wards, enchanters did, shamen used regens, and HoT (heal over time) spells, not to mention spells that could buff every stat, essentially making them buff bots.  Clerics had a few HoTs, but nostly relied on simple, direct heals, not the reactive heals they get in EQ2.  For the most part, the classes of EQ2 have very little to do, except for perhaps the very basic role (healer, dps, tank) that they had in EQ, and even that has changes in some ways (brawler classes can tank somewhat effectively, now, where in EQ, there were a DPS class).</P></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Elrondthe2]

the roseliik or w/e u call them lol are in EQoA on odus and the iskar are also in eqoa in between cazic thule and grobb if i remember right lol theres an army of them there and no im not talking about lizard men heh!<p>Message Edited by Elrondthe2 on <span class=date_text>05-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:40 PM</span>

[teddyboy4]

<div></div><div> <blockquote><hr>Amana wrote: <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Cusashorn wrote: <div></div> <blockquote> <p></p> <hr> <p>Amana wrote:</p> <p>Right now Arcaydin strangely looks like Erudin I believe. </p> <p>I do believe though we will have to wait for EoF to see about the past histories that may involve EQOA.  Vhalen was deffinately mysterious again only giving us enough information to keep us guessing but guessing on the right track.  I deffinately believe EoF will hold a line of quests around the Fayspire that resided in the Elven City.  </p> <hr> </blockquote> <p> I don't think EQ2 is gonna bother going into EQOA detail. It barely has as it stands.</p> <p>As for Erudin, it was stated from numerous NPC's in EQlive that Erudin is named after Erud, "Father of the Erudites"</p> <hr> </blockquote> <p> Well thats the thing, I don't think its EQOA lore but the actual "Lore and History" of EverQuest itself. </p> <p>Also thx for the info about Erudin being named after Erud, what this does is solidify my idea about what occured.  I believe that Erud lived during the time EQOA transpired and after his death they later renamed Arcaydin to Erudin to honor his name like you say "Father of Erudites".</p> <p>The reason being you can go in game and meet Erud himself where he will talk about the lore of Arcaydin.  Erud also discusses his dream and purpose for Arcaydin hoping to turn it into a beacon for the enlightened to travel too.  The only part that was really strange about EQOA is that Highbourne the Erudite starting city was the only one I know of that could have Conjurors, Necromancers, Paladins and Shadowknights all in the same boat.  Strangely though I believe Conjurors were called Magicians and there were only enchanters.  Illusionists and Coercers never existed during the time of EQOA but that could be because of game mechanics or from a lore standpoint that trade wasn't developed fully. </p> <hr></blockquote>Yes, Arcadin was renamed to Erudin after the death of Erud thier leader. And yes, I believe you are right that the Erudites were the only race in EQoA that could have Magicians (they were called Magicians in EQoA if I remember and not Conjurers), Necro's, Pally's and Shadow Knights. Erudites in EQoA could be all the arcane casters (Wizards, Enchanters, Magicians, Necros), as well as Warriors, Palladins, and Shadow Knights (as well as that silly Alchemist class that was introduced in Frontiers). The reason that Erudites could be both the "good" and "evil" classes is b/c they were the only race that had both "good" and "evil" in the same city. This was only possible b/c it's the time right before the Heretics were discovered to still be practising the forbidden art of Necromancy and eventually cast out. If you remember the Necromancers and Shadow Knights were a big secret and did everything they could to keep from being discovered, that's why thier class trainers and guild halls were in that cave below Highbourne. And you're right, there weren't Illusionists and Coercers in EQoA b/c, like in EQ they were consolidated into one class, the Enchanter. Here's the breakdown of EQ/EQoA classes and how they were broken down into EQ2's classes. EQ/EQoA                            EQ2 Warrior            =       Guardian + BerserkerPaladin            =                Paladin Shadow Knight =        Shadow Knight Ranger            =        Ranger + Assassin Monk               =            Monk + Bruiser Rogue             =     Swashbuckler + Brigand Wizard            =         Wizard + Warlock Enchanter       =      Illusionist + Coercer Magician          =               Conjurer Necromancer  =            Necromancer Cleric               =       Templar + Inquisitor Druid                =         Warden + Fury Shaman           =           Mystic + Defiler Bard                 =        Troubador + Dirge              edit: Wow, I completely forgot that someone a couple posts up already did a list of classes and thier conversions into the EQ2 world. Oh well, but looking back they are a bit different, I only used original EQ and EQoA classes and what they became in EQ2 </div><p>Message Edited by teddyboy420 on <span class="date_text">05-29-2006</span> <span class="time_text">10:48 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by teddyboy420 on <span class=date_text>05-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:50 PM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>It needs to be pointed out that some of these new classes in EQ2 have almost no actual relation to thier original EQlive classes...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Unfortunatly, it really sucks that EQ2 has no real good quests or sources of lore on WHY or HOW these classes exist, where they came from, and who created them. There is an explanation on how the bruisers came to exist, but that's about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Monks, Paladins, Necromancers, Shadowknights, Wizards, and Rangers are the only ones who have a deep-seeded history that can be found throughout EQ2. Especially monks.</DIV>

[Ama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>It needs to be pointed out that some of these new classes in EQ2 have almost no actual relation to thier original EQlive classes...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Unfortunatly, it really sucks that EQ2 has no real good quests or sources of lore on WHY or HOW these classes exist, where they came from, and who created them. There is an explanation on how the bruisers came to exist, but that's about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Monks, Paladins, Necromancers, Shadowknights, Wizards, and Rangers are the only ones who have a deep-seeded history that can be found throughout EQ2. Especially monks.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>That is True and one class that has evolved into a trade skilling class that is from the EQOA expansion is the Alchemist class.</P> <P>In EQOA Alchemists were introduced as a new class or as many called them "Potion Flingers".  Strangely enough this could be considered a tack on just to give a new class to the masses however I highly doubt it.  I believe Alchemist lore can go back to where that skill "Flinging Potions" was reduced and the class itself graduated more towards research instead of being out on the battle field. </P> <P>There are actually 2 places that I believe monks originated but that maybe wrong and there could only be 1.  The first place is the renowned shrine that is near Qeynos that monks train at learning to hone their skills.  The second place is more of a guess which I have only 25% idea on and that is the monk area out near Freeport. </P> <P>The only classes that I truely like that have good seated lore are Shadowknights *My Toon Saxx Shadow* but most of all my toon Amani *EQOA* aka Amana *EQ2/SWG* *Sir Amana Wolf of Castle Lightwolf* .  In EQOA Amani was my most powerful toon and that is where I learned what a healer was being a druid. </P> <P>However as time passed it seems the Druidic art of healing progressed to a split.  This split seems to be the on one side the "Healing Potential" of the art taken to a supreme level for Wardens.  The other side being the offensive side following an almost "Storm Caller" route from EQOA days of the past the Fury side. <BR></P>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>I don't know anything about alchemists in EQOA, but only shamans could be alchemists in EQlive.</DIV>

[Ama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>I don't know anything about alchemists in EQOA, but only shamans could be alchemists in EQlive.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Alchemists were a strange lot in EQOA and I wish they could come here in the form of adventuring however that may not be possible.  The reason being we have Tradeskilling Alchemists and an Adventure class Alchemist might throw a bit of a snag into the scheme of things :smileywink: .</P> <P>But back to what I was saying Alchemists were a strange lot because they have spells and abilities like mages however they were 10x different.  What they would do is cast a spell that would synthesize potions into their inventories.  These potions would have the ability to restore mana, give invisibility, but were renowned for causing debilitating effects, causing explotions *What guy doesn't want a big boom > ) *, as well as DoTs with acidic style concoctions. </P> <P>EQOA was also unique in its own right because it forced certain being of people to choose only certain classes.  If you were a Barbarian your options weren't too open I think you could become a Warrior, Rogue, and a Shaman with that being it.  This kinda reinforced racial traits upon certain races which was very interesting to me.  That idea was opened up in EQ2 where any race could become any class that they wanted.</P>

[Thax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amana wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>EQOA was also unique in its own right because it forced certain being of people to choose only certain classes.  If you were a Barbarian your options weren't too open I think you could become a Warrior, Rogue, and a Shaman with that being it.  This kinda reinforced racial traits upon certain races which was very interesting to me.  That idea was opened up in EQ2 where any race could become any class that they wanted.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>EQ1 was the exact same way.  Along the way they changed a few things, such as allowing gnomes to be paladins and shadowknights, and allowing halflings to be rangers and paladins.  No race could be every class, but humans were close.

[Hirebra]

I have no problem reconciling EQOA with EQ1. Half a millenium is plenty of time to cover any sort of change. If anything, I'm disappointed there is not more difference between the two!<div></div>

[Ama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hirebrand wrote:<BR>I have no problem reconciling EQOA with EQ1. Half a millenium is plenty of time to cover any sort of change. If anything, I'm disappointed there is not more difference between the two!<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The biggest change we can see is the diversity of classes that errupted between the time period of EQOA to EQ2 however we must also take into account EQ1 to fully grasp the changes. </P> <P>I'll have to search around however because I want to know what time period Antonious Bayle II lived in because he lives currently in Qeynos negotiating with the Erudites in EQOA.  However that may lead to a bit of a problem if i'm not careful and could erupt into a war.</P>

[Nocturnal Aby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>It needs to be pointed out that some of these new classes in EQ2 have almost no actual relation to thier original EQlive classes...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I refer to my earlier post:</P> <P></P> <HR> <P></P> <P>Yes and no, on some of them, some of the classes are more like combinations, the Warlock, for instance, although similar to the wizard in that their spells are primarilly direct damage inflicted on the oponant, use a lot of the poison and disease spells that were common to the Necromancer.  Also, the Assassin is actually more similar to the rogue in EQ, the brigand and swashbuckler classes are fairly unique, with the exception of them doing back attacks, and disarming traps, but all scout classes do that.  I suppose you could also add that now they can both pickpocket, thanks to an AA ability, but that obviously wasn't added until KoS, when AAs were put into the game.  You also pointed out how berserkers are something of a combination of the warrior and berserker class from EQ, and I'd like to argue that point further, since the berserkers in EQ could only where chainmail, and most of their attacks were ranged based, having to do with various throwing axes they could obtain.  In fact, the only real thing EQ2 berserkers have in common with EQ berserkers is the name.</P> <P>Although the classes of EQ2 may be related in some way (sometimes very loosely) to classes in EQ, and I'd wager EQOA as well, SONY has done a wonderful job making the classes distinctly their own.  In EQ, shamen didn't have wards, enchanters did, shamen used regens, and HoT (heal over time) spells, not to mention spells that could buff every stat, essentially making them buff bots.  Clerics had a few HoTs, but nostly relied on simple, direct heals, not the reactive heals they get in EQ2.  For the most part, the classes of EQ2 have very little to do, except for perhaps the very basic role (healer, dps, tank) that they had in EQ, and even that has changes in some ways (brawler classes can tank somewhat effectively, now, where in EQ, there were a DPS class).</P> <P></P> <HR> <P></P> <P></P> <HR> Hirebrand wrote: <P></P> <P> I have no problem reconciling EQOA with EQ1. Half a millenium is plenty of time to cover any sort of change. If anything, I'm disappointed there is not more difference between the two!</P> <P></P> <HR> <P></P> <P>I refer to a wonderful post by troodon where he pointed out just a few of the discrepencies that trouble many of us.</P> <P></P> <HR> <P></P> <P>Even if Vhalen or any other DEV did come in here and say "EQoA is canon, shut up troodon", it wouldn't change the facts we have to deal with.  Elddar Elves wouldn't all of a sudden appear in EQ1, the Elves wouldn't all of a sudden have fled Tunaria <EM>after</EM> the rise and fall of the Combine Empire, Qeynos and Freeport wouldn't all of a sudden be built in a different age, and Erudites wouldn't all of a sudden discover necromancy before they arrived on Odus (just to name a few inconsistencies).  You guys might all of a sudden feel better and all of a sudden feel vindicated in some way, but EQoA would be just as out-of-place as it had been before.</P> <HR> <P></P> <P> </P> <P>Looks like we're starting to beat a dead horse here, guys.</P> <P>Not sure what Troodon meant by Elddar Elves suddenly appearing, but what I believe him to be refering to, is the differentiation between wood elves and high elves.  The reason this would not suddenly appear is the fact that Elves that were young adults in EQOA would still be alive, kicking, and very possibly even giving birth (depending on your take on elven physiology) in EQ. Thus making the elves only one, two generations at most, removed from when they were all simply "Elves"</P>

[Ama]

<DIV>I have to agree that there are bits and pieces of lore that will have discrepencys however there are parts that aid us in translation from EQOA to EQ1 then possibly EQ1 to EQ2 timesplit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Epic weapons in EQOA also have a nice good of backing, my staff I showed you at the front post has the antlers of a great stag from the Plane of Growth to enhance its power.  The only part of history I find hard to comprehend is our lore about the Bone Blade Claymore the reason being I swear I remember in EQOA there being a gnoll named Opalia which is the same name as the ghost in EQ2's BB today.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I will have to dig further but I believe that somewhere it was mentioned the original owner of the BBC Gynok later founded the spot where Qeynos sprung up.  My only curiosity is how can Antonious Bayle II be living in Qeynos currently yet Opalia still being alive?  The only possible solution I guess is that another rising gnoll was honored with Opalia's name being given to that gnoll in rememberance of her name.</DIV>

[Sartredes]

<DIV>Just because I'm curious, what about "Lords of Everquest?"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This real-time stratagy game was supposed to be set 10,000 years(I think) before EQLive. Was there any lore revealed in that game that is relevant for EQ2?  My understanding is that lore in that game hinted at the lore revealed in "Legacy of Ykesha".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The official website for the game has some interesting stories.  Should the "history" revealed for LoE be concidered the history of EQ and EQ2?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>LoE website: <A href="http://lordsofeverquest.station.sony.com/index.jsp" target=_blank>http://lordsofeverquest.station.sony.com/index.jsp</A></DIV>

[Renita_Serafim]

<P>Technically, anything with the EverQuest name attached to it is official in regards to either the EQ1 or EQ2 timeline, or both.</P> <P>There are titles like Online Adventures that introduce numerous continuity glitches.</P> <P>There are titles like the Champions of Norrath series that don't affect anything, for good or ill. You could remove the events of these games from Norrathian history and never notice the difference to anything that happens afterwards.</P> <P>Then there is Lords of EverQuest, which I am ignorant of. All I can say is that the frogloks shouldn't be good aligned and intelligent in the time of the first Rallosian War since they hadn't been enlightened by Mithenial Marr until after the seperation of the timeline by Druzzil Ro.</P>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Astralmage wrote:<BR> <P>Technically, anything with the EverQuest name attached to it is official in regards to either the EQ1 or EQ2 timeline, or both.</P> <P>There are titles like Online Adventures that introduce numerous continuity glitches.</P> <P>There are titles like the Champions of Norrath series that don't affect anything, for good or ill. You could remove the events of these games from Norrathian history and never notice the difference to anything that happens afterwards.</P> <P>Then there is Lords of EverQuest, which I am ignorant of. All I can say is that the frogloks shouldn't be good aligned and intelligent in the time of the first Rallosian War since they hadn't been enlightened by Mithenial Marr until after the seperation of the timeline by Druzzil Ro.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Not really. Everquest: Champions of Norrath and Return to Arms on the PS2 are not considered part of the official lore.

[WarShe]

Always wanted to know more about the Shadow Realm and what came of it after LoE. and wondered if any of the lords in it are remembered today in any way.

[Renita_Serafim]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WarSheol wrote:<BR> Always wanted to know more about the Shadow Realm and what came of it after LoE. and wondered if any of the lords in it are remembered today in any way.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The Shadow Realm?!</P> <P>You ARE joking?!</P>

[WarShe]

<DIV>Yeah Shadowrealm, dont get what you think is a joke /shrug</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <P><STRONG>The Story of the Shadowrealm</STRONG> <P>The Shadowrealm is a tempestuous association of all the evilly aligned nations of Norrath. Although they are easily the most dangerous of the three great alliances, they are severely hindered by internal discord. Advancement comes not through merit, but murder. Leadership is a measure of how feared a leader is rather than how well he leads. Rebellions, betrayals and factional infighting are daily threats, and in any given battle, Shadowrealm forces have as much to fear from renegade Shadowrealm warlords as they do from the opposing alliances. If they ever learned to unite fully against their enemies, they might one day rule all of Norrath unchallenged. <P>Commanded by the Overlord of Neriak, the Shadowrealm is comprised of a patchwork of different race-nations. Most predominant are the Teir'Dal, a race of Dark Elves created by the God of Hate who believe themselves the rightful masters of Norrath. Uneasily sharing power with the Teir'Dal are the Iksar, a shipwrecked race of former slaves now fighting for a new life on the strange continent of Tunare. Together these two races have guided the destiny of the Shadowrealm, and have reaped the lion's share of its rewards. Subordinate to them are dozens of semi-independent nations of Ogres, Gnomes, Trolls, Goblins and Mogri (a foul race of bestial warriors said to have been summoned from the very core of Norrath.)</P> <P>Formed initially by the Teir'Dal and the Ogres, the Shadowrealm's early purpose was to sack Takish'Hiz, the capitol of the rapidly crumbling Elddar empire. Finding their forces unequal to the task, the Teir'Dal made a quick series of critical blood pacts. Pulling the resources of a half-dozen monstrous nations into one entity, the Teir'al cobbled together the Shadowrealm with only one genocidal goal: Exterminate all opposition and rule the lands of Tunaria.</P></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Renita_Serafim]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WarSheol wrote:<BR> <DIV>Yeah Shadowrealm, dont get what you think is a joke /shrug</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Nevermind, I thought that it was a Realm as in a Plane, not a Realm as in a Kingdom. Scratch my last comment.<BR><p>Message Edited by Astralmage on <span class=date_text>06-01-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:36 AM</span>

[WarShe]

<DIV>A little general info from the LoE trailer</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://patch.lordsofeverquest.com:7060/patch/web/loeq/LOECinematic_FINAL_BIG.mov" target=_blank>http://patch.lordsofeverquest.com:7060/patch/web/loeq/LOECinematic_FINAL_BIG.mov</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have the impression it was atleast 500 years before EQOA but thats only a guess I really dont know.</DIV>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<P>Let's not forget that there are also two Everquest novels now out there, and the table top RPG;  not to mention other odds and ends like early beta lore and fan fiction like the Codex of War to muddy things up good and proper.</P> <P>Whether they are 'officially' sanctioned lore or not, really begs the question.  They are out there, in some cases they supply missing pieces of lore (for better or worse), people incorporate it as canon (for better or worse), and the volume of lore grows.</P> <P>The history of Norrath has taken on a life of it's own, so to speak.  You may want to reign in the lore heretics.  You may decry and denounce them as false scholars spreading lies and undercutting, contradicting, or confusing what you deem as official lore, but it's already moved beyond the practical ability of anyone to manage effectively.</P> <P>Even in the face of clear, precise rulings on the part of the developers saying, "Such and such is true, and that other thing is not."  Still the stories continue to be told and retold. </P> <P>Like Middle Earth, "The tale grew in the telling". </P> <P>So too with Norrath.</P> <P>I would assume that the developers of EQ Live and EQ2 are aware of the goings-on in each of the different games.  Not that they confer about such things, (though perhaps it would solve a host of lore issues if they did), but even with that communication, the lore in each game follows it's own path.</P> <P>The great "time-split" ploy that is the rationale for this divergence of lore, only partially eliminates lore contradictions in the two games.  How much more so for things like EQoA, or the table-top version?</P> <P>I have made the point in the past, and will make it again.  It really is not possible to control what players may wish to incorporate and believe.  For good or for ill, preception becomes reality.</P> <P>At best all you can really do is put all the unofficial lore into the category of Norrathian legends, myths, tall tales and folklore; and that is a good thing.  Even though it adds to confusion, and presents a murky, and even false view of what may really be the case, it does model reality much, much better than a single, coherrent, and completely unambiguous, "History of Norrath: from the Nameless to the Present".</P> <P>Some people can accept these types of stories as falling into the category of folklore, and others cannot;  but it is the reality of the situation, and will likely remain so from now on.</P> <P> </P>

[WarShe]

<P>Actualy I think the Codex of War was Official lore at one time for the original game, it was just pre-beta and changed greatly later on.</P> <P> </P> <P>Found a time line for LoE, the end of the Age of Blood.</P><p>Message Edited by WarSheol on <span class=date_text>06-01-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:06 AM</span>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<P>No, the Codex was fan fiction, put out by the guild, the First Fist of Light.  However, they mixed fan-fiction with the beta, and pre-beta stories you mention in a very believable way. </P> <P>It was so well done, (at the time), that many, many people took it to be true.  It came out early too, and has consequently been quoted and re-quoted for years; to the point that bits and pieces of it have made their way into some of the various EQ 'spin-offs' such as the table top RPG.</P>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mary the Prophetess wrote:<BR> <P>No, the Codex was fan fiction, put out by the guild, the First Fist of Light.  However, they mixed fan-fiction with the beta, and pre-beta stories you mention in a very believable way. </P> <P>It was so well done, (at the time), that many, many people took it to be true.  It came out early too, and has consequently been quoted and re-quoted for years; to the point that bits and pieces of it have made their way into some of the various EQ 'spin-offs' such as the table top RPG.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yeah the Codex of War is not to be taken as a serious source of EQ lore. The guildleader of that First Fist Of Light guild that created the Codex seriously *EXPECTED* Sony to actually follow *HIS* Storyline. The path of lore that he himself wrote, and expected the game's story to revolve completely around him.</P> <P>He got angry when he found out that they had no desire to do anything remotely close to that.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>In other words, he was more arrogant and selfish than even I tend to be from time to time on these boards. And that's saying something.</P>

[Renita_Serafim]

<DIV> <DIV>I'm sorry, I can't resist pointing out that if SOE wrote EverQuest's storyline to revolve around everyone who wanted it to, it would be an incomprehensible mess.</DIV></DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>exactly why he was a jerk in that sense.</DIV>

[Ama]

<DIV>Well there is one place right now that I just thought of that would be cool to see some history behind.   Past the town of Qeynos to the SE, past a small village beyond a hill is a place of evil.  This place I speak of is a Prison and many of my fellow adventurers of days gone by know of this place.  It was in the darkest depths that dwelled many prisoners with a few of them being of great renowned name.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is this place the beginning/birthplace of the Freeport Asylum and its reveled history?  If not then what became of that prison and its inhabitants?</DIV>

[Mordock of the Highwynd]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amana wrote:<BR> <DIV>Well there is one place right now that I just thought of that would be cool to see some history behind.   Past the town of Qeynos to the SE, past a small village beyond a hill is a place of evil.  This place I speak of is a Prison and many of my fellow adventurers of days gone by know of this place.  It was in the darkest depths that dwelled many prisoners with a few of them being of great renowned name.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is this place the beginning/birthplace of the Freeport Asylum and its reveled history?  If not then what became of that prison and its inhabitants?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What you speak of intrigues me, because the zone to the south of Qeynos in EQOA is called Qeynos Prison.  It is a teen level dungeon.  Basically, the prisoners have broken free of the prison and now control it.  In the lower levels of the main building, there are caster prisoners in the low to mid twenties.

[Ama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mordock of the Highwynd wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amana wrote:<BR> <DIV>Well there is one place right now that I just thought of that would be cool to see some history behind.   Past the town of Qeynos to the SE, past a small village beyond a hill is a place of evil.  This place I speak of is a Prison and many of my fellow adventurers of days gone by know of this place.  It was in the darkest depths that dwelled many prisoners with a few of them being of great renowned name.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is this place the beginning/birthplace of the Freeport Asylum and its reveled history?  If not then what became of that prison and its inhabitants?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What you speak of intrigues me, because the zone to the south of Qeynos in EQOA is called Qeynos Prison.  It is a teen level dungeon.  Basically, the prisoners have broken free of the prison and now control it.  In the lower levels of the main building, there are caster prisoners in the low to mid twenties.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yup its the Qeynos Prison and was a good stomping ground however I do have to wonder if that prison was later abolished.  Then it had the prisoners rounded up moving them to Freeport starting the Freeport Asylum.  We already had mention of the Freeport Asylum many a time by Vhalen.  We even have a nice post with vhalen speaking of a mad man existing within the asylum to this day saying 1 word "Fayspire". </P> <P>There were some interesting named creatures down there and I will have to get some info about it.  I still wonder about those nasty creatures that were past the Surefall glade that existed within that citadel style place.  It was a flying weird creature and I cannot remember the race name.  <BR></P>