Ssraeshza Temple, the Seal, and Slayer of Gods

[Erratee2]

<DIV>Talked with a freind of mine about whether or not we would see the sisshar again. I was convinced we would'nt untill he explained why he thought we would.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When luclin went "bang" the surface was scorched and all life *as we know it* was destroyed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Seal of Destruction ( i think thats the name ) in the Ssraeshza temple had lore behind it that said if the pieces were united *in destruction* that the Destroyer or Slayer of Gods would be freed (The Cursed Cycle) That would summon a few of the named Sisshar.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Sisshar used to make deals with the gods and had access to quite an amazing arsenal of spells, They even once tried to create a god and came close but failed. If Sisshar were summoned (especially the ones in the cursed cycle) wouldnt it be possible they could have done something to continue on? even if you throw down the idea of them having power magic there was a backdoor from the temple (one way) to The Deep. Which is .. you guessed it... deep inside of luclin. Now there are HUGE pieces left that could easily hold The Deep and plus some. Couldnt they have fled there?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The idea that the destruction of Luclin brought the Cursed back is something i personally like. Especially since the gods have run off and the Slayer of Gods has awoken <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Ragelin]

<DIV>hate to break it to ya but the shissar on luclin are probaby all gone however if you read your lore the shissar didnt originate on luclin but later migrated in fact i believe there were was supposed to be a small group of them living on kunark, so its possible when we see kunark we will see them again ( or perhaps sooner ), do remember though the shissar make the iksar empire look like a kid holding a wood sword.</DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<P>The Shissar never made any agreements with any gods. They denied belief in the gods. They thought they were gods themselves, and arrogantly defied them. Thus, they were punished with the Greenmist.</P> <P>They fled to Luclin and created The Grey to make sure the Greenmist could never get to their temple. They FEAR the gods now, yet at the same time continue to believe that the only gods in the universe are themselves.</P>

[Erratee2]

<P>Doesnt rule out the Deep</P> <P> </P> <P>Nor does it rule out the whole point of the post i made. The Seal's pieces were united IN destruction...</P>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Erratee2 wrote:<BR> <P>Doesnt rule out the Deep</P> <P> </P> <P>Nor does it rule out the whole point of the post i made. The Seal's pieces were united IN destruction...</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yeah I guess you're right. He was born in destruction and immediated destroyed in destruction afterwards when the atmosphere ignited and destroyed everything in tempuratures exceeding 500,000 Degrees.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>I'm sorry. The Shissar are gone. I never want to see them again.</P>

[Erratee2]

<P>Well considering the history of this forum and the "facts" you toss around i guess i should expect to see them shortly!</P> <P> </P> <P>PS: Isnt air kinda important for something to be ignited? I seem to remember a distinct lack of it around the temple</P> <P>As i said earlier.... doesnt rule out The Deep</P><p>Message Edited by Erratee2 on <span class=date_text>05-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:53 AM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>dude. The explosion came from the CENTER of Luclin. The Deep would have been the first to be destroyed, and you don't need air to scorch the earth when the heat is hot enough to melt rock.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seeing as Ssra Temple is connected to The Deep, it would have been destroyed as it's an escape point for the explosion to break out of.</DIV>

[Saroc_Luclin]

You're forgetting there is a second bunch of Shissar out there.  Plane of Time is filled with people who got lost in the time stream somehow, including a large contingent of Shissar. (And giants and goblins and others). It's looking like with this coming Adventure Pack that the Gods may have disassembled the Plane of Knowledge or otherwise booted the mortals around New Tanaan out. So if the Devs want another way to bring the Shissar out, they could either go the Luclin survivor route, or they could just say the Gods cleaned out the Plane of Time-linttrap and released the mortals back into the regular timestream to fend for themselves.<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>You have me there. I admit I was never able to get to the Plane of Time. It was the one thing I wished to accomplish before quitting EQlive, but my guild broke up thanks to EQ2 and WoW before that could happen. The elemental plains were the farthest I made, but I never killed any of the 4 gods.</DIV>

[troodon]

<P>I personally hope they bring Shissar back... my Greenmist is going to need bane damage against <EM>something :smileyhappy:</EM></P> <P>But the chances of it happening seem incredibly slim.  I don't think the developers would have blown up Luclin unless they were pretty willing to forget about most the stuff up there.  Cusa's right about how very bad the Shattering would have been for life on that moon.  The center of gravity would have immediately switched from the center of the planet to being divided among the various chunks; meaning the atmosphere would have essentially disappeared into space.  </P> <P>The sort of energy required to actually break up an object the size of that moon is unfathomable and the heat released from it (2nd law of thermodynamics) could very well have liquidated a good chunk of the planet and scorched the entire surface... it would have been a sort of giant contact metamorphism event; very high temperature and ultra low pressure.  I can go into the types of minerals you'd expect to see if you like :smileytongue:</P> <P>Bringing in planar beings isn't exactly unprecedented in this game (Amygdal and Djinn) but Plane of Time mobs seems to be stretching it; that seems like the very last place the gods would want us mortals to be having anything to do with.</P><p>Message Edited by troodon on <span class=date_text>05-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:07 PM</span>

[vikingthug]

Thats a broad assumption, if Luclin had a molten core perhaps, but since its never been stated we can only hap hazard to guess.  Yes there was an explosian, and yes a large chunk was ripped from the moon.  Everything else is guesswork to say the least.  Wheather we like it or not, the fate of those on the moon is a total mystery as is the full extent of the damage.  I wouldnt be suprised to see an expansion involing luclin one day.  Probably not soon, but one day. 

[troodon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vikingthug wrote:<BR> Thats a broad assumption, if Luclin had a molten core perhaps, but since its never been stated we can only hap hazard to guess.  <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I never said Luclin had a molten core (I don't have enough information to speculate on that).  I said that the energy from the explosion, or whatever did that to the planet, <EM>probably</EM> would have liquidated a good portion of the planet.  The kind of energy that would be required to rip apart a planetoid like that is insane, and the vast majority of it is going to be lost as heat.  This isn't a crazy idea; the entire earth was once liquidated by a giant bolide impact that, while it did create the moon, still didn't have enough energy to actually break up the planet (see: <A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_impact_hypothesis" target=_blank>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_impact_hypothesis</A>)</P>

[hahn_ba]

<P>Why exactly are we applying physics to a world in which matter can be created from nothing, and magic is king?</P> <P> </P> <P>If the storyline calls for Shissar, there will be Shissar. Magic is fun like that. </P>

[Ragelin]

<DIV>magic is also convenient but remember it said specificly the greenmist only encompassed kunark but the shissar had influence on the other continents already (remember the shissar wraith in plane of fear?) and also i believe they had occupied part of innothule to. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i am not nessisarily hoping for the shissar but then only thing i hated about em is it took forever to kill each one where in EQ2 we wouldnt really have that prob</DIV>

[Cusashorn]

There was never any Shissar presence in Innothule.

[WarShe]

<DIV>If I remember the Shissar where forced to Luclin after the Plague was unleashed which killed many of them off.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That is why the zone around the temple has no air, So the plague can not spread there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Later when the gods left Norrath, mainly the Plague bringer the Shissar wouldnt have had much to fear if they choose to leave Luclin.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Was "rumored" on EQ1 that the Shissar may have possibly had a hand in the creation of the first teleportation spires.  There is no deffinate proof who actualy did make the first portals.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So with such technology it could have been very possible for them to have escaped the shattering.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Ragelin]

true but its commonly accepted the combines created the spires to luclin mainly because combine ruins are found nearby them and also the architecture is very similar but who knows maybe a giant space rabbit built em

[WarShe]

<P>Common missunderstanding, There is no proof the Combine empire ever created spires only that they Used the spires. All in game lore references only say used, not created. But if any one finds some thing new id love to see it.</P> <P>There is a big gap of time up until Luclin I think until new spires where created, and those deffinatly where not Combine.</P> <P>EDIT now that I think about it I think the Combine had to learn how to use the spires which would mean they where already there id think.</P><p>Message Edited by WarSheol on <span class=date_text>05-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:42 PM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WarSheol wrote:<BR> <P>Common missunderstanding, There is no proof the Combine empire ever created spires only that they Used the spires. All in game lore references only say used, not created. But if any one finds some thing new id love to see it.</P> <P>There is a big gap of time up until Luclin I think until new spires where created, and those deffinatly where not Combine.</P> <P>EDIT now that I think about it I think the Combine had to learn how to use the spires which would mean they where already there id think.</P> <P>Message Edited by WarSheol on <SPAN class=date_text>05-09-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:42 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Taken directly from the Shadows of Luclin instruction booklet:</P> <P> </P> <P><EM><STRONG>The Great Exodus:</STRONG></EM></P> <P><EM>And so it was decreed that Luclin would be the new home of the Loyalists. The Combine already possessed vast knowledge of teleportation. Using this knowledge on a grander scale would be the solution to thier problem.</EM></P> <P><EM>All they had to do was wait. In a few months, Luclin would pass directly over the largest Combine spire located in Kunark, providing both focus and the timing needed to complete this mystical feat.</EM></P> <P><EM>If they failed, the Loyalists would fall and any hope of building their version of the Combine would be lost. It was essentially a costly, all-or-nothing attempt to save their way of life.</EM></P> <P><EM>The night had come, and thousands had gathered to participate in perhaps one of the greatest magical events in mortal history.</EM></P> <P><EM>Slowly Luclin approached its perigee. The Mages began to chant and motion in the air. Glowing strands of mana poured from them, twined together, and circled the magnificent spires. A magical wind slowly picked up and swirled upward around the spires, taking the mana with it. With one last burst of magical energy, a great ball of light enveloped the spires and then exploded [Removed for Content] in a flash. A moment later, the light and everything it illuminated were gone.</EM></P> <P><EM></EM> </P> <P><EM><STRONG>Focus Redirected:</STRONG></EM></P> <P><EM>The bright light had winked out, leaving nothing but a black void in its wake. Moments later, flickering lights began to appear all around as torches were lit. Above the refugees, where the fiery rings of Luclin should have been, was cold dark stone. They were not on the surface of Luclin, but deep in the center of the moon itself. The air grew heavy with tension and fear as thoughts of being trapped underground filled everyone's head.</EM></P> <P><EM>As fires were lit and magical light sources were set around the group, it became clear that they had been deposited in a vast cavern system located near the center of the moon.</EM></P> <P><EM>Off to one side of the encampment on a stone island was a large black sphere of swirling mist. The sphere emanated a strong magical field that seemed to pull everything towards it. This sphere, they felt, was most likely responsible for the failed telelport to the surface.</EM></P> <P><EM>But what was it? And what was its purpose?</EM></P> <P><EM></EM> </P> <P><EM></EM> </P> <P>The rest goes on to describe how the cities of Shadowhaven, Katta Castellum, and eventually Sanctus Seru came to exist, but that's no important here.</P> <P> </P> <P>Ok then. We know that the Combine Empire had great teleportation technology, and they had built the spires a long time ago, well during the existance of the Combine empire in the past. Whether or not the Combine discovered this knowledge for teleportation is partially based off of the Shissar, we do not know. Since there was almost NOTHING left behind by the Shissar to prove that they even existed on Norrath in the first place, I'd believe that they developed this technology on thier own.</P> <P>We also know that the cavern system they arrived in would eventually become The Nexus, and the swirling void of black mist was the core of Luclin itself. A giant ball of shadow more than likely created by Luclin herself.</P> <P> </P> <P>What we don't know, however, is how the Shissar managed to get up to Luclin. Obviously they didn't use the same method of technology to transport them to Luclin as the Combine. They must have used some different techniques and forms of magic to do so.</P> <P>The next mystery that comes up: Did the Shissar encounter the black void or not? I would think that if the Shissar ended up getting ported to the center of the moon instead of to the surface, then they would have left behind evidence of this. They would have left behind evidence of interaction with the local fauna and flora and the surrounding areas as they traveled to the secluded area of the moon, where they would build thier temple and create The Grey.</P> <P>Or they could have just decided to settle right there at the center of the moon, but obviously didn't.</P>

[troodon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Since there was almost NOTHING left behind by the Shissar to prove that they even existed on Norrath in the first place, I'd believe that they developed this technology on thier own.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>From the lore in the run-up to Velious release:</P> <P></P> <HR> "Within their manuscripts, scientists of the Combine Empire made notes of the discovery of sets of four tall spires found in several areas across Norrath. The spires emanated a magical energy that was unexplainable. After years of extensive research and experimental studies of the structures, they came across a method of using this power for teleporting to several locations. In order to use this power to its fullest, they built the pyramidal structures in the middle of each set of these monuments. <P>As I study the Combine spires... no... as a man of knowledge I can not continue giving credit to the Combine Empire for creating something they did not.</P> <DIV align=left>The Combine appeared to have been extremely fascinated with the power radiating from the quadroliths, among other power sources, across Norrath. They conducted many experiments in attempts to siphon power from these ancient objects. Once they realized they were not able to siphon that power, they began to develop ways of using it while it still remained locked within those objects' internal structures" <HR> </DIV> <DIV align=left> </DIV> <DIV align=left>View it here: <A href="http://mywebpages.comcast.net/bigdragon7/faydwersbrethren/stories/luclore.htm" target=_blank>http://mywebpages.comcast.net/bigdragon7/faydwersbrethren/stories/luclore.htm</A></DIV> <DIV align=left> </DIV> <DIV align=left>So we know the Combine didn't create the spires.  While I'm normally hesitant to go around agreeing with the old Codex of War on anything, I think they were right that the Shissar constructed the old Combine Spires.  The fact that the large spire network platform thingee is on Kunark, the fact that the Shissar had sufficient teleportation abilities to take themselves to Luclin, and the fact that it is mentioned in that Dark Elf creation story thing posted a while ago (<A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=10630#M10630" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=10630#M10630</A>  ), it seems that the Shissar did in fact build the things.</DIV> <DIV align=left> </DIV> <DIV align=left>"the shissar, a race of snake people with a reputation as fierce warriors and potent spellcasters, had in the past constructed monuments that enabled planar travel" - from that Dark Elf story.</DIV><p>Message Edited by troodon on <span class=date_text>05-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:01 PM</span>

[DreamerClou]

Great argument Troodon with some really valid points.  The Shishar got up to Luclin somehow...

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> troodon wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Since there was almost NOTHING left behind by the Shissar to prove that they even existed on Norrath in the first place, I'd believe that they developed this technology on thier own.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>From the lore in the run-up to Velious release:</P> <P></P> <HR> "Within their manuscripts, scientists of the Combine Empire made notes of the discovery of sets of four tall spires found in several areas across Norrath. The spires emanated a magical energy that was unexplainable. After years of extensive research and experimental studies of the structures, they came across a method of using this power for teleporting to several locations. In order to use this power to its fullest, they built the pyramidal structures in the middle of each set of these monuments. <P>As I study the Combine spires... no... as a man of knowledge I can not continue giving credit to the Combine Empire for creating something they did not.</P> <DIV align=left>The Combine appeared to have been extremely fascinated with the power radiating from the quadroliths, among other power sources, across Norrath. They conducted many experiments in attempts to siphon power from these ancient objects. Once they realized they were not able to siphon that power, they began to develop ways of using it while it still remained locked within those objects' internal structures" <HR> </DIV> <DIV align=left> </DIV> <DIV align=left>View it here: <A href="http://mywebpages.comcast.net/bigdragon7/faydwersbrethren/stories/luclore.htm" target=_blank>http://mywebpages.comcast.net/bigdragon7/faydwersbrethren/stories/luclore.htm</A></DIV> <DIV align=left> </DIV> <DIV align=left>So we know the Combine didn't create the spires.  While I'm normally hesitant to go around agreeing with the old Codex of War on anything, I think they were right that the Shissar constructed the old Combine Spires.  The fact that the large spire network platform thingee is on Kunark, the fact that the Shissar had sufficient teleportation abilities to take themselves to Luclin, and the fact that it is mentioned in that Dark Elf creation story thing posted a while ago (<A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=10630#M10630" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=10630#M10630</A>&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, it seems that the Shissar did in fact build the things.</DIV> <DIV align=left> </DIV> <DIV align=left>"the shissar, a race of snake people with a reputation as fierce warriors and potent spellcasters, had in the past constructed monuments that enabled planar travel" - from that Dark Elf story.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>*snaps fingers* Dang! I had completely forgotten all about the Journal pages of Al'Kabor back before Luclin was released. they didn't keep those pages up on the website for very long.

[Saroc_Luclin]

<div><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div></div><p>The next mystery that comes up: Did the Shissar encounter the black void or not? I would think that if the Shissar ended up getting ported to the center of the moon instead of to the surface, then they would have left behind evidence of this. They would have left behind evidence of interaction with the local fauna and flora and the surrounding areas as they traveled to the secluded area of the moon, where they would build thier temple and create The Grey.</p> <p>Or they could have just decided to settle right there at the center of the moon, but obviously didn't.</p><hr></blockquote>Actually, there are some signs that the Shissar were in the Caverns. Don't forget, one entrance to Ssra Temple is from the Deep, which you get to by travelling throuhg the Luclin caverns.Though the Shissar to Luclin story I heard that may or may not be correct, was that they tried to teleport their city (in the Overthere) but for whatever reason only got the central temple, and lifted it, basement and all, to the moon, forming Ssra Temple, and the scars in The Overthere (where Howling Stones zones off of). This makes the Shissar method more like how Shar Vahl got moved to Luclin than how the Combine reached it. (Perhaps the magic orb in the central cavern was 'smart' enough not to bring things too big for the cavern into the cavern, and left them on the surface?)</div>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Saroc_Luclin wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <P>The next mystery that comes up: Did the Shissar encounter the black void or not? I would think that if the Shissar ended up getting ported to the center of the moon instead of to the surface, then they would have left behind evidence of this. They would have left behind evidence of interaction with the local fauna and flora and the surrounding areas as they traveled to the secluded area of the moon, where they would build thier temple and create The Grey.</P> <P>Or they could have just decided to settle right there at the center of the moon, but obviously didn't.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Actually, there are some signs that the Shissar were in the Caverns. Don't forget, one entrance to Ssra Temple is from the Deep, which you get to by travelling throuhg the Luclin caverns.<BR><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Not what I ment. The Shissar would have shown remains of used tools or tracks and stuff like that right from the center of the moon if they had migrated that far.

[Saroc_Luclin]

Not necessarily. The Shissar have been there a long time; so signs of their passage may have been buried with time. Plus on top of that, those caverns have been inhabited by the Combine (Shadowhavenites) for a long time as well, building their own cities and villages through there, so that would've covered up signs of the Shissar passage as well. Assuming of course the Shissar did come that way and they didn't arrive like Shar Vahl did.<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Saroc_Luclin wrote:<BR>Not necessarily. The Shissar have been there a long time; so signs of their passage may have been buried with time. Plus on top of that, those caverns have been inhabited by the Combine (Shadowhavenites) for a long time as well, building their own cities and villages through there, so that would've covered up signs of the Shissar passage as well. Assuming of course the Shissar did come that way and they didn't arrive like Shar Vahl did.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>True, but the combine empire would surely have made notice of something while they were building thier settlements.

[Ragelin]

<P>yeah of course they would *gasp gasp UGHKKK*  nyeh they probaby stunbled into the grey and perhaps had a aparatus to breath but remember the old saying "in the grey no one can hear you scream" aka for all seru probably knew is  few patrols didnt return in the proximity of the greys entrance cave.</P> <P>now if anyone knew of the shissars exsistance it would probably be the thought horrors (not just in the deep)</P>

[FreddyF]

<P>I seem to recall the the Temple of Ssraa (sp) was transported from Kunak to Luclin but i could easily be wrong there. </P> <P>Never the less the Shissar transported themselves to Luclin to escape the Greenmist and where obviously highly adpt at magic, there is nothing to say that they couldnt have managed to escape the explosion by comeing back to norath or even just holding back the destructive forces for a time.</P> <P>Would be interesting to see their survivors enslaved in Kunark under a new Iksar Empire.</P>

[WarShe]

<P>If the Shissar made it back to kunark wouldnt they just take the iksars as their slaves? iksar where slaves at one time I thought, I may be wrong though but pretty sure.</P> <P>I do agree with the Greenmist and all plague threat gone they could easily port their temple around to where ever. </P> <P>Cant picture them not trying to conquer some thing some day.</P>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WarSheol wrote:<BR> <P>If the Shissar made it back to kunark wouldnt they just take the iksars as their slaves? iksar where slaves at one time I thought, I may be wrong though but pretty sure.</P> <P>I do agree with the Greenmist and all plague threat gone they could easily port their temple around to where ever. </P> <P>Cant picture them not trying to conquer some thing some day.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>In EQlive, they would have been decimated since the iksar had the sheer numbers to overwhelm them. In EQ2, we'll find out how the Iksar are faring soon enough, but I doubt the Shissar would have seen the destruction of Luclin comming soon enough to attempt any measures against it. That' my oppinion.

[WarShe]

<P>id have to disagree with that as they did see the plague threat coming and did act fast enough to do some thing to protect them selves from it.</P> <P>In <STRONG><U>my</U></STRONG> opinion the only real question is, Where are the Shissar now?.</P>

[Ra]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>I'll have to do some digging since it's been forever, but didn't Grieg (ala Grieg's End) create the spires (or maybe he just figured out how to use them)?  Then, for the long while that the loyalists found that they couldn't return to Norrath he went mad (with guilt I assume) and exiled himself.  In Grieg's End you see bent and warped spires in a few locations, along with many other manefestations of his madness.  But that's a relatively unimportant thing, since this thread is about the Shissar.People mentioned the shissar enslaving the iksar again if they return to the planet... I think this would be a fairly unlikely incident, as there are were not very many of the shissar left, and their temple in The Grey was basically the last dying breath of that race..  Their empire was gone generations before we found them on Luclin, having fought the uprising of the Iksar and having been decimated by the greenmist... gone long enough for the Iksar to have created their own vast empire, and to see it fall...and the iksar empire, as well, had been in ruins for several generations before we ever went to Luclin.  In all that time, the Shissar managed to do nothing but hold on to their temple...they didn't expand, didn't rebuild, and didn't conquer... the NPC's on Luclin hardly knew anything about them other than a few sightings of the undead shissar revenants in The Grey.  They just shut themselves inside their temple, and simply existed... I think they were pretty much afraid to leave, fearing that the greenmist lurked outside of The Grey in wait for them...Also, I don't think the group of shissar in the plane of time, or any other inhabitants of the plane, were capable of leaving.  I think I recall the NPC's in the Plane of Time stating that they had been there for ages, how they got there they couldn't recall, and they had never found a way to leave.  Also, the Shissar in the Plane of Time were doing nothing but existing... the place was pretty much a museum, where the exhibits had been pulled from various spots in time.  The Shissar had their tiny exhibit, and nothing more.  The ones on the moon...well who really can say what's going on with the moon... even the official lore is contradictory on what even happened to it.In the lore released before EQ2 came out it talked about an invasion by the minions of Solusek Ro and Rallos Zek on the nexus, and seemed to indicate that the gods destroyed the moon...But in the various quest lines involving Nagafen, he tells you that Kerafyrm  destroyed the moon...but then you also find out that Nagafen isn't exactly trustworthy either..I'd wager that the Shissar are gone, but perhaps some found their way back to Norrath...  I doubt it though, since they were terrified of the greenmist.  But hey, the greenmist was sent by Cazic to punish the shissar for their attack on the planes (and to free the Iksar!), so with Cazic withdrawn from Norrath maybe the threat of greenmist is withdrawn as well.... if they ever get us back to Kunark then we'll see!<div></div><p>Message Edited by Rawq on <span class=date_text>05-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:11 AM</span>

[Nocturnal Aby]

<P>From it's place in the order in the Tome of Destiny, and other subtle hints, we know that the invasion of the Nexus occurred before the Awakening of the Ogres, before they began their campeign on Antonica.  This places the invasion of the Nexus (and assumed invasion of Luclin in general) centuries before the Shattering, or the destruction of said moon.  I believe we have some evidence of the Shissar occasionally leaving their Temple, in that they had taken Kati Sha(sp), and tried to make a god out of him.  If nothing else, it is hard to believe that what ever forces were working on conquering Luclin would have passed over the Sshra Temple, especially with the mind set of Rallos Zek, who's goal since almost the beginning has been to conquer everything, be it Norrath, or even the planes of the other gods!  I would think that in the centuries between the invasion of the Nexus and the Shattering, that the Shissar, renowned masters in arcane, martial, and no doubt spiritual (most likely more like defilers of EQ2 who twist the spirits to their will) would have both the foresight and means of escaping such danger.  If nothing else, we know they had the ability for planar travel, and, just as they exiled themselves to Luclin, could have once again moved themselves to some plane, or even to the other moon, Druzzil.  To count such beings as dead because the moon blew up would be seriously underestimating a race who mastered transloction before most races had developed schools for the different arcane sciences, in my humble opinion.  Saying the Shissar didn't make it because you don't like them, or the expansion they were in shows a clear skew in objective logic to pondering the possibility of their survival.</P> <P>Could they have been blown up with the moon?  Yes, it is possible.  Could they have survived by teleportation to a safer location, or by creating some protective arcane force around them?  Yes, this is equally as possible, especially considering who we are talking about.  The ultimate truth is that we have no idea what happened, and will only begin to know if one of the lore devs sees fit to relinquish such information.  Until then, everything is speculation.</P><p>Message Edited by Nocturnal Abyss on <span class=date_text>05-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:58 PM</span>

[WarShe]

Wasnt the other moon we see in the sky Drinal?

[Nocturnal Aby]

Yes, -laughs- my mistake, Drinal, the Silver Reaper, Druzzil Ro, goddess of magic, knew something wasn't right when I wrote it, but didn't take the time to think about it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Zh]

What I'd like to add to this is, with the new revelations coming in Fallen Dynasty in which the gods are supposed to begin to show thier presence in the world and then in EoF when they fully do and the belief systems comes into play then The Faceless will certainly be present with the salvation of the greenmist to take care of any Shissar that would stand as a threat against the Iksar. IF there are any Shissar left. It's my belief they aren't still around, that all life on Luclin is gone, it's a dead moon. But hey who knows.. if Luclin brings her presence back, she may rebuild it.<div></div>

[Ra]

<div></div><div></div>Actually, at no point did I say I didn't like the shissar... on the contrary, Kunark was by far my favorite expansion, and I had a fondness for Luclin as provided something of an epilogue on many of the Kunark plot elements.  I loved the Kunark lore, and the shissar were a significant part of the history of the iksar.  Just ask my guild!  Getting me started on Kunark lore is all too easy, and results in many a lengthy story! Also, about Khati Sha.. the shissar did not come get him... he more or less stumbled up on them while he was exploring the unmapped areas of Luclin.  If you remember, he was a great Vah'Shir explorer (also the first beastlord), and when he stumbled on the Shissar he was captured, and experimented on.  I believe it was one of the shissar generals that thought the shissar should try to make their experiment into something of a demi-god (keep in mind that these are the same shissar who thought of themselves as gods..so their definition of a demi-god is might have been atypical of the definition as it applies to norrath's pantheon).  At some pont Khati Sha escaped the Shissar, killing many of them, and retreated to the acrylia caverns, where he was worshipped as a god by the grimlings that resided there.  Khati Sha's tale is one of the more sad in everquest, because even after he regained some measure of his sanity, and became aware of himself once more, his mind and body had been twisted by the shissar...and he was left with a powerful hatred for the shissar...but unfortuantely he now hated his own people as well, and sent his grimlings against their city of Shar Vahl.  In the EQ1 timeline, the people of Shar Vahl still do not know that the creature behind the grimling attacks is the very same Khati Sha who they still think of as a hero that mysteriously dissapeared. The shissar are (were?) very powerful in their magic, so it's no doubt that they'd be capable of leaving the moon, but the point I was trying to make was more that they wouldn't likely have come back to Norrath, because they truly were terrified of the greenmist...even fearing that it had followed them to Luclin somehow.  For all intents and purposes they were afraid to even leave The Grey..and as far as I know they never made any more expeditions into the planes after their previous invasions had resulted in the greenmist as retaliation by Cazic.  After greenmist they simply lacked the numbers and the strength to do too awful much.  I think I was also trying to say that they wouldn't be conquering much of anything, as the shissar didn't exhibit any signs of imperialism in their tenure on Luclin.  However, if the shissar got back to norrath and believed that the greenmist was gone then they would be more than able to expand once more since they wouldn't be confined to the airless desert of The Grey.  There was some time in which the gods had retreated, and perhaps the shissar would've seen this as an opportunity to return to norrath...in hopes that the greenmist was gone with Cazic.  Of course, any specuation about the fate of the shissar, or any other inhabitants of Luclin, is just that... speculation.  We can only hope that we eventually get to find out. But I'm more or less of the mindset that the Shissar are gone...they've been more or less gone since the came back after their assault on the planes, only to have the greenmist drive them to the very brink of extinction.. I think Khati Sha, and their hopes of turning a mortal into a god was their last attempt at restoring the grandure of their race, but it failed, and there are no records of them trying again.  It just seems that after this point in history they might simply have lacked the power to thwart their destruction with that of the moon.  We'll see though, eh? <div></div><p>Message Edited by Rawq on <span class=date_text>05-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:08 AM</span>

[Ra]

<div></div>Oh, and actually I was incorrect about Grieg..  He was the leader of the mages that tried to build a new quadralith spire on Luclin in order to teleport back to norrath...but their attempt was thwarted by Luclin herself, resulting in the deaths of the mages operating the quadralith that Grieg and his researchers had constructed.Luclin then sent her shadows into the research complex of Grieg, and caused Grieg and his subordinates to go mad, thus cursing them to wander the complex in madness.  So that's what became of Grieg.It is speculated that the shissar could have built the original teleportation spires, as it is said they truly pioneered the arts of teleportation.  But teleporting to Luclin is a funny thing... races had a way of "winding up" on Luclin, but without ever intending to get there.  For one thing, Luclin is hidden by a veil of shadow, or was when the gods still presided over the mortal realm...  so for the most part it wasn't even believed to exist.  The goddess, Luclin, seemed to have something of an agenda to pick up several races from Norrath.. and I imagine the Shissar were on that agenda.<div></div>Anyways, back to the original question regarding The Cursed, and The Emperor.  Vzyh'dra The Cursed was sealed away into some unknown plane when The Emperor put down her rebellion.  Also, The Emperor resided in some unknown plane as a means of preserving his life... so it's quite a posibility that these two are alive someplace..  Would make for a fantastic conflict between the two godslayers!Anyways, just more food for thought I guess.<p>Message Edited by Rawq on <span class=date_text>05-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:18 AM</span>

[WarShe]

Not to be picky but I think Luclin was always visable from Plane of sky in old world EQ1. Just not from any where else.

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WarSheol wrote:<BR> Not to be picky but I think Luclin was always visable from Plane of sky in old world EQ1. Just not from any where else.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>It was, as were the 4 other celestial bodies.</P> <P> </P> <P>Luclin however, only becomes visible on Norrath during it's Perigree (the moment the moon's orbit brings it closest to the planet). Part of the Luclin lore is that the Combine loyalists decided to travel to Luclin because they needed a place to relocate thier empire, a place where nobody else could go. Luclin was visible during the night of Tsaph Katta's assasination, and thats where they chose.</P> <P>Now from a game mechanics perspective this does not apply in Everquest. Especially since the Direct X 9.0 change that changed the skies. Luclin is no longer even visible in Plane of Sky thanks to that.</P>

[Ra]

<div></div><div></div>You know...I almost thought of typing in that provision regarding that you could see Luclin in the in the plane of sky...but I decided not to as it didn't seem overly relevent.  But yes, you could see Luclin from the Plane of Sky.  I'd guess that's because Luclin is one of the lesser gods, and though she can veil her moon from the eyes of people on Norrath, she'd have a much tougher time veiling it from Veeshan, and plane of sky is Veeshan's plane.... so I think it's something along the lines of plane of sky being higher up the totem than Norrath, and Luclin (the moon, not the godess for which it gets its namesake).  But yeah, since they changed the sky it's gone everywhere in EQ1, unless they've done something I'm unaware of since I retired from EQ1.I like it that Luclin is now visible with the withdrawl of the gods.  It will be interesting to see if Luclin stays visible once the gods begin to exert their influence on Norrath again.<div></div><p><span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Rawq on <span class=date_text>05-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:41 PM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rawq wrote:<BR> You know...I almost thought of typing in that provision regarding that you could see Luclin in the in the plane of sky...but I decided not to as it didn't seem overly relevent.  But yes, you could see Luclin from the Plane of Sky.  I'd guess that's because Luclin is one of the lesser gods, and though she can veil her moon from the eyes of people on Norrath, she'd have a much tougher time veiling it from Veeshan, and plane of sky is Veeshan's plane.... so I think it's something along the lines of plane of sky being higher up the totem than Norrath, and Luclin (the moon, not the godess for which it gets its namesake).  But yeah, since they changed the sky it's gone everywhere in EQ1, unless they've done something I'm unaware of since I retired from EQ1.<BR><BR>I like it that Luclin is now visible with the withdrawl of the gods.  It will be interesting to see if Luclin stays visible once the gods begin to exert their influence on Norrath again.<BR> <P><BR><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Rawq on <SPAN class=date_text>05-25-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:41 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The Plane of Sky is.... hmm. Even I have difficult putting to words just how one could possibly describe it. We know that it's high above Norrath. Quite possibly entirely existing in the realm of Norrath itself, yet at the same time it seems to be a Plane all its own, in a dimension in which you can see all the celestial bodies except Norrath itself, as if everything was within eyesight to each other.</P> <P> </P> <P>Also, I really think that Luclin is only now visible because it blew up. It could be that the gods have just withdrawn themselves, not that Luclin got very involved with the affairs of the other gods. She just keeps to the shadows. I just think that it's only now visible all the time because it blew up.<BR></P>

[Zh]

The reading for when luclin blows up is that it was momentarily visible, in it's whole and beautiful form, and then seconds later blew up, blinding the young dark elf lady in that story. I'd say that perhaps the magic of Luclin the moon had been sustained residually up to that point, after the withdrawal of Luclin the goddess. So, after so long the shroud failed. And then due to the shroud failing, the destruction happened. I dunno, just a theory on that.I would say the Plane of Sky is indeed another completely seperate realm. However, it's true that we do know it's tied very closely to the mortal realm. As we've seen islands from it "leak" out and join the mortal realm. So, yeah, it's kinda confusing.<div></div>