The Nameless

[Zabjade]

<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#66ff00 size=2>What I know: He is a Creator God, and seems to interact little with things he creates or destroys, he obviously touched Norrath before Veeshan. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#66ff00 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#66ff00 size=2>So Vhalen do you have any hidden gems for us lore wise?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#66ff00 size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#66ff00 size=2>I also wonder if he will be takable in the belief system, he might be the easiest for some to OOCly  put their characters in league with.</FONT></DIV>

[Vhalen]

The Nameless is above and beyond the realm of the Norrath's pantheon. All that we know and all that will be has been created through the will of The Nameless. But does this omnipotent entity have dealings with the life it creates or is the machine set in motion and left to run on its own. The Nameless is beyond our comprehension, but a greater knowledge of what this being is and what it has done to maintain the prosperity of its creation may be discovered within the chaos that envelops Norrath.   

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>I'd like to go Out of Character here to say that I basicly think of The Nameless in the same manner as scientists think of The Big Bang theory.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We don't know how the universe was created, but the best working theory is that there was just one giant explosion and suddenly the universe existed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think the same applies to The Nameless. It can't be proven that it exists or doesn't exist, yet it is credited to having created the universe.</DIV>

[Zabjade]

<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT></DIV> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#66ff00 size=2>I look at it diffrently but I won't go into that, it's a personal belief. </FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#66ff00 size=2>BTW Vhalen that last bit is that a Hint that the Nameless will be choosable? Since it was lored with both creation and destruction both my Monk and my Shadowknight could possibly take it?</FONT></P>

[SaintJ]

<DIV>My guess is close to that of AO in the Forgotten Realms.</DIV>

[Zabjade]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SaintJay wrote:<BR> <DIV>My guess is close to that of AO in the Forgotten Realms.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#66ff00 size=2>Care to elaborate for those who have never read a Forgotten Realms Book?</FONT>

[Wilde_Night]

Ao was the god of gods.  Through Ao, the gods were created to watch over the world he created.  Ao interferred twice in FR lore. Once to strip the gods of all their powers, as they became arrogant. And a second time to restore those who proved themselves as mortals to godhood once again. Which was really neat, since some of the original gods died while mortal and new ones were picked to carry on.

[DaimyoTx]

little note to add:  In the Realms, Ao refuses to answer to any form of worship.  Ao is seperate from the current established system of deific power.  At the end of the events that Wilde_Night describes (The Time Of Troubles) he also decreed that every god's power would depend directly upon how many worshippers that god had.  Ao is completely seperate from this system and would maintain supremecy over the pantheon regardless of how many worshippers he has.Now in FR, I think those that worship Ao know that he's the ultimate supreme being, but they also know that he will never make any demands on his worshippers.  The people that choose Ao as a deity are afraid to commit to the active deities in FR.I see The Nameless in the same light.<div></div>

[Ama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>I'd like to go Out of Character here to say that I basicly think of The Nameless in the same manner as scientists think of The Big Bang theory.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We don't know how the universe was created, but the best working theory is that there was just one giant explosion and suddenly the universe existed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think the same applies to The Nameless. It can't be proven that it exists or doesn't exist, yet it is credited to having created the universe.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Well this is a scary realm to talk about because it does border on the real world philosophy of "creationism" but that is as far as I will go into that.  I do not want to get this post taken down because I do find it quite interesting about "The Nameless" traveling throughout the universe creating these planets and such.  I also have to agree that we cannot actually prove the existance of the nameless because he/she/it is beyond our comprehension. </P> <P>You also have to wonder about The Nameless as well a Veeshan the mother of wyrms because she did almost what the nameless did.  He went around creating the universe while she in turn went around the universe raking the world with her claws claiming them as her own while depositing her children on them.</P>

[Ishnar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vhalen wrote:<BR> The Nameless is above and beyond the realm of the Norrath's pantheon. All that we know and all that will be has been created through the will of The Nameless. But does this omnipotent entity have dealings with the life it creates or is the machine set in motion and left to run on its own. The Nameless is beyond our comprehension, but a greater knowledge of what this being is and what it has done to maintain the prosperity of its creation may be discovered within the chaos that envelops Norrath.   <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>the nameless is the green mist that freed the Iksar and beat the ralossian army when it attacked Qeynos.</P> <P>"Perhaps it is a sentient being beyond the realms of the mortal and divine, or perhaps it is beyond such designations" from Nithask Syrthiss</P>

[TheGeneral]

<DIV>Not sure I buy the Nameless and the Greenmist being the same thing.  I agree that I feel the Nameless is more like AO from Forgotten realms.  The Greenmist is more like some secret weapon that can be set loose with one target.  Much like the Angel of death released on egypt to take all the first borns.</DIV>

[DaimyoTx]

<div></div>The Nameless is Definitely NOT The Greenmist.  Here's the lore on theweapon called <a href="http://lorenorrath.free.fr/read_search.php?link=iks_notesgreenmist&word=greenmist" target="_blank">Greenmist</a> - this is directly from EQ1 sources.This was a weapon created by mortals.The <a href="http://lorenorrath.free.fr/read_search.php?link=iks_beforegreen&word=green%20mist" target="_blank">Green mist</a> that destroyed the Shissar was an event brought about because the gods were PO's at said Shissar. - this is also directly from EQ1 sources.And here's all that Everquest had to say about <a href="http://lorenorrath.free.fr/read.php?link=gods_nameless" target=_blank>The Nameless</a> before Vhalen commented.<div></div><p>Message Edited by DaimyoTx on <span class=date_text>05-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:32 PM</span>

[RoninSenshi]

<DIV>-------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV> <P>You also have to wonder about The Nameless as well a Veeshan the mother of wyrms because she did almost what the nameless did.  He went around creating the universe while she in turn went around the universe raking the world with her claws claiming them as her own while depositing her children on them.</P> <P>--------------------------------------</P> <P> </P> <P>No, you don't. The reason being is that the Nameless created Norrath and the Gods. Their is no rivalary between the Nameless and Veeshan, namely because the Nameless is so much above Veeshan's level it isn't silly.</P> <P>The Nameless created the Universe, and then created 4 Elemental Gods to see over it. From there the 4 Elemental Gods created the Lesser Gods, Veeshan included. Veeshan put some dragons on one little Planet that was apart of the Nameless' universe. Why would the nameless care?</P></DIV> <P>Message Edited by ShintouShinai on <SPAN class=date_text>05-07-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:56 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by ShintouShinai on <span class=date_text>05-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:57 AM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Even the gods themselves don't know what the Nameless actually is.</DIV>

[Ama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ShintouShinai wrote:<BR> <DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P>You also have to wonder about The Nameless as well a Veeshan the mother of wyrms because she did almost what the nameless did.  He went around creating the universe while she in turn went around the universe raking the world with her claws claiming them as her own while depositing her children on them.</P> <P></P> <P> </P> <P>No, you don't. The reason being is that the Nameless created Norrath and the Gods. Their is no rivalary between the Nameless and Veeshan, namely because the Nameless is so much above Veeshan's level it isn't silly.</P> <P>The Nameless created the Universe, and then created 4 Elemental Gods to see over it. From there the 4 Elemental Gods created the Lesser Gods, Veeshan included. Veeshan put some dragons on one little Planet that was apart of the Nameless' universe. Why would the nameless care?</P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Chill bud all i'm saying is that Veeshan did kinda what the Nameless did but to a lesser extent.  He went around creating the universe she went around depositing her young on planets.   So in essence she went around creating her "Dragon Kind" life on those worlds the Nameless did, I guess she's a copy cat.<BR>

[Zabjade]

<FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>Even the gods themselves don't know what the Nameless actually is.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#66ff00 size=2>:smileyvery-happy: Lol I just got this mental image of a god tapping one of my character's on the shoulder asking-no BRIBING my character for info on The Nameless.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#66ff00 size=2>Sorry about the double post it messed it up.</FONT><BR></DIV>

[daveyboy]

<DIV>I think your confusing The Nameless with "The Faceless", which is how Cazic Thule was sometimes known. It was he that was responsible for the Greenmist. </DIV>

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">Nope. <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> there is Cazzy the Faceless, and there is THE NAMELESS Creator of the Universe! (He was bored that day) </font></font></font><div></div>

[troodon]

<P>Eh, forget it.  Upon rereading, I think he's aware of this</P><p>Message Edited by troodon on <span class=date_text>05-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:37 AM</span>

[OrcSlayer96]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DaimyoTx wrote:<BR>little note to add:  In the Realms, Ao refuses to answer to any form of worship.  <BR>Ao is seperate from the current established system of deific power.  <BR>At the end of the events that Wilde_Night describes (The Time Of Troubles) he also decreed that every god's power would depend directly upon how many worshippers that god had.  Ao is completely seperate from this system and would maintain supremecy over the pantheon regardless of how many worshippers he has.<BR><BR>Now in FR, I think those that worship Ao know that he's the ultimate supreme being, but they also know that he will never make any demands on his worshippers.  The people that choose Ao as a deity are afraid to commit to the active deities in FR.<BR><BR>I see The Nameless in the same light.<BR><BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Actually if you look at the time of troubles, AO is not the highest order, he is indeed in charge of the gods of the forgotten realms and they have a hard time focusing on his power.  But at the end of the trilogy AO himself is seen communning with a larger unseen power, stating that it will never happen again if he can help it.  That unseen power is never named but it is understood that AO reports to this power also.  Who knows maybe the Nameless controls AO?  heheheheh...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[DaimyoTx]

<div></div>Yeah - I didn't really mention that because it's been pretty much written out of official FR canon now. Originally (with the whole Planescape / Spelljammer intermingling), every Crystal Sphere has it's own pantheon and the basic premise introduced there was that each pantheon had some sort of "overgod" that had absolute authority over the Crystal Sphere and it's associated Prime.  The Authors took a little license and created the concept that even Ao reported to someone in an effort to help provide a way to tie different game worlds together.  When WotC did it's massive game re-structuring, Spelljammer got ditched entirely and Planescape was severely hobbled in favor of giving each game world their own unique cosmology.  Hence now in official FR canon, Ao is the supreme ruler of everything divine in the Realms and there is no power greater than him.And I'm sure to anyone who's not a hardcore Pen/Paper gamer, all of that was gibberish.<div></div><p>Message Edited by DaimyoTx on <span class=date_text>05-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:02 AM</span>

[troodon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DaimyoTx wrote:<BR> <BR>And I'm sure to anyone who's not a hardcore Pen/Paper gamer, all of that was gibberish.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Confirmed

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">Game Crossover Fodder is what  the poster is refering to. </font></font></font><div></div>

[Dra]

<div><blockquote><hr>Vhalen wrote:<div></div>The Nameless is above and beyond the realm of the Norrath's pantheon. All that we know and all that will be has been created through the will of The Nameless. But does this omnipotent entity have dealings with the life it creates or is the machine set in motion and left to run on its own. The Nameless is beyond our comprehension, but a greater knowledge of what this being is and what it has done to maintain the prosperity of its creation may be discovered within the chaos that envelops Norrath.   <hr></blockquote>I wan't to put my vote in for allowing us to choose The Nameless as a God to worship in the game. My character doesn't particulary care for the petty feuds between the lesser dieties. And my character isn't athiest or agnostic either. But the Nameless is something he can admire/respect and worship.</div>

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66ff00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">Hopefully, The Nameless lore would be obscure like hunting locations, etc. </font></font></font><div></div>

[steelbadger]

<P><STRONG>__________________________________________________ ________________________________________</STRONG></P> <P><STRONG>Creation of Norrath</STRONG> </P> <P>In the beginning, all that existed was void. Empty of all, whether it be time or space. A vast and endless nothingness cloaked in a deep and all consuming silence. <BR><BR>Within this void existed "The Nameless", a power so incredible that in the entire universe, it knew only itself to exist. It had no idea why it was there, just that that it was. <BR><BR>In the quiet expanse of the void, it sent itself out and searched the void to find something different. And there it was, a pocket of space and therein lay the flow of time. <BR><BR>When The Nameless stepped into the space, something terrible but wonderful, something terrifying but exciting happened. It detected the elements of space and time. <BR><BR>The Nameless, knowing nothing of these things, freed what was in there so it could spread out in all directions, filling the space that had been empty for so long with a force that had no boundaries. <BR><BR>Forces touched each other and the emptiness filled with swirling energies, light and heat touched emptiness. Energies collided and crashed, were born and died and became new and different... none of those having been seen ever before started to form planets that differed in size and structure. Also created were stars to watch over this new creation. <BR><BR>But the whole chaos needed order, shaping and fine touch. And so the Nameless created The Gods of Power. <BR><BR>To do so, The Nameless reached into the chaos, drew forth four equal portions of the stuff of existence and shaped it into the Gods that would divide the universe into form. <BR><BR>The first was named Rathe and got the task of bringing order into the chaos. It saw that the task was indeed immense, so it reached into itself and divided into 12 equal parts. <BR><BR>Then The Rathe went into the chaos divided some more material and created Earth. This Earth got set under the eyes of the Nameless, under the stars, so it could watch over his cosmos. <BR><BR>The second was named Fennin Ro and received the task of shaping the chaos. <BR><BR>Fennin as well drew his portion and named it Fire. <BR><BR>He then placed it upon the stars to shed light on the cosmos. Fennin Ro helped The Rathe to shape the solid matter and gave warmth to the cold of chaos. <BR><BR>The third was named Water and The Nameless determined it would need many forms. <BR><BR>So it took the portion and split it into three. <BR><BR>Tarew Marr would be responsible for the main state of the element, the Water, E'Ci for the solid state; the Ice and Povar would lord over steam. These three took their portion and cloaked each world with its life giving touch. <BR><BR>And finally the fourth was named Xegony and she received the task of drawing away the material in-between and setting each thing in its place. <BR><BR>She used her portion of chaos to make it into Air, which she used to blow the chaos away and cushion each world from the harshness of the cold cosmos. <BR><BR>The Nameless then looked into its new creation and felt sorrow because it could not experience it, for the creation could not contain the Nameless and so it decided to find a way to explore this new existence. <BR><BR>So the Nameless called out to the Gods of Power and commanded them to make minions that it could share in their experience of this new world. <BR><BR>Each of the Gods of Power reached into their elemental planes and drew forth a portion that they shaped with their will into what would be eyes and hands for The Nameless and themselves. <BR><BR>They created beings of energy, much like themselves, but beings of will born of the matter of the cosmos. <BR><BR>The Gods of Power knew that balance must be maintained in the universe to keep its shape. <BR><BR>Therefore they started to create the Gods of Influence in the model of a scale, on one side a force of darkness or destruction, on the other side a force of light or creation and ...in the middle, a neutral or balancing force to maintain the balance without the involvement of the Gods of Power. <BR><BR>And so they combined their elements to create each God in turn, good, neutral and evil, which the children of Norrath may choose to follow until the end of times.</P> <P> Source: Seeress Tiding - GM event </P> <P>__________________________________________________ ___________________________________________</P> <P> </P> <P> Source: http://lorenorrath.free.fr/read.php?link=ages_creation : 21/05/2006</P> <P> </P> <P>(EDIT: Really really need to fix whatever is causing the HTML error techie people, I know you can!  It would seem to be related to the horizontal lines that can be added, at least, through a process of elimination, this is what has caused mine)</P> <P>Message Edited by steelbadger on <SPAN class=date_text>05-21-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:34 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by steelbadger on <span class=date_text>05-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:37 PM</span>

[Renita_Serafim]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> steelbadger wrote:<BR> <P><STRONG>__________________________________________________ ________________________________________</STRONG></P> <P><STRONG>Creation of Norrath</STRONG> </P> <P><STRONG><EM>In the beginning, all that existed was void. Empty of all, whether it be time or space. A vast and endless nothingness cloaked in a deep and all consuming silence. <BR><BR>Within this void existed "The Nameless", a power so incredible that in the entire universe, it knew only itself to exist. It had no idea why it was there, just that that it was. <BR></EM></STRONG><BR>In the quiet expanse of the void, it sent itself out and searched the void to find something different. And there it was, a pocket of space and therein lay the flow of time. <BR><BR>When The Nameless stepped into the space, something terrible but wonderful, something terrifying but exciting happened. It detected the elements of space and time. <BR><BR>The Nameless, knowing nothing of these things, freed what was in there so it could spread out in all directions, filling the space that had been empty for so long with a force that had no boundaries. <BR><BR>Forces touched each other and the emptiness filled with swirling energies, light and heat touched emptiness. Energies collided and crashed, were born and died and became new and different... none of those having been seen ever before started to form planets that differed in size and structure. Also created were stars to watch over this new creation. <BR><BR>But the whole chaos needed order, shaping and fine touch. And so the Nameless created The Gods of Power. <BR><BR>To do so, The Nameless reached into the chaos, drew forth four equal portions of the stuff of existence and shaped it into the Gods that would divide the universe into form. <BR><BR>The first was named Rathe and got the task of bringing order into the chaos. It saw that the task was indeed immense, so it reached into itself and divided into 12 equal parts. <BR><BR>Then The Rathe went into the chaos divided some more material and created Earth. This Earth got set under the eyes of the Nameless, under the stars, so it could watch over his cosmos. <BR><BR>The second was named Fennin Ro and received the task of shaping the chaos. <BR><BR>Fennin as well drew his portion and named it Fire. <BR><BR>He then placed it upon the stars to shed light on the cosmos. Fennin Ro helped The Rathe to shape the solid matter and gave warmth to the cold of chaos. <BR><BR>The third was named Water and The Nameless determined it would need many forms. <BR><BR>So it took the portion and split it into three. <BR><BR>Tarew Marr would be responsible for the main state of the element, the Water, E'Ci for the solid state; the Ice and Povar would lord over steam. These three took their portion and cloaked each world with its life giving touch. <BR><BR>And finally the fourth was named Xegony and she received the task of drawing away the material in-between and setting each thing in its place. <BR><BR>She used her portion of chaos to make it into Air, which she used to blow the chaos away and cushion each world from the harshness of the cold cosmos. <BR><BR>The Nameless then looked into its new creation and felt sorrow because it could not experience it, for the creation could not contain the Nameless and so it decided to find a way to explore this new existence. <BR><BR>So the Nameless called out to the Gods of Power and commanded them to make minions that it could share in their experience of this new world. <BR><BR>Each of the Gods of Power reached into their elemental planes and drew forth a portion that they shaped with their will into what would be eyes and hands for The Nameless and themselves. <BR><BR>They created beings of energy, much like themselves, but beings of will born of the matter of the cosmos. <BR><BR>The Gods of Power knew that balance must be maintained in the universe to keep its shape. <BR><BR>Therefore they started to create the Gods of Influence in the model of a scale, on one side a force of darkness or destruction, on the other side a force of light or creation and ...in the middle, a neutral or balancing force to maintain the balance without the involvement of the Gods of Power. <BR><BR>And so they combined their elements to create each God in turn, good, neutral and evil, which the children of Norrath may choose to follow until the end of times.</P> <P> Source: Seeress Tiding - GM event </P> <P>__________________________________________________ ___________________________________________</P> <P> </P> <P> Source: http://lorenorrath.free.fr/read.php?link=ages_creation : 21/05/2006<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry to necropost with another of my Void related theories, but does this lore place the Nameless into the same category as entities such as the Creator of Obelisk fame?<BR><p>Message Edited by Astralmage on <span class=date_text>09-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:43 PM</span>

[Grozmok]

Yes. I always assumed the Nameless was a creator figure, though lacking the benevolence that this one shows.<div></div>