Questions on BM's, Kerra, and more.

[vikingthug]

<div></div><div>Vhalen, if you would be so kind, Ive a few questions I'd like to toss your way.</div><div> </div><div>1.  From the transition to EQ2 from EQ1 why did you folks descide to remove the Beastmaster class?  What was the reasoning behind it.  I know it was a beloved class, and a hated class by many. </div><div> </div><div>2.  When you folks were tossing around the idea to add new races ,what made you descide to use the Ratonga and the Kerra, and more importanly, why did you opt to get rid of the Vah Shir.  Was it due to being able to make more "human like" models rather then the more cat like ones used on the Vah Shir?</div><div> </div><div>3.  If there are no gods minding the store so to speak, how are the healers ,(clerics) if you will ,casting healing spells still?  After all, they get the ability to heal through divine channeling.  Sort of like your electric company going out of business...No power from them, means no power for you.</div><div> </div><div>4.  Do you see the addition of any new classes in the future? </div><div> </div><div>5.  Do you see the possibility of new starter zones to level fresh new faces up in?</div><div> </div><div>6.  What is your opinion on charactors being able to multiclass at some time in the future?</div><div> </div><div>    Thats all for now, Im sure I will come up with more questions in the future.</div><p>Message Edited by vikingthug on <span class="date_text">04-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:43 AM</span></p>

[Cusashorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>vikingthug wrote:<div></div><div>Vhalen, if you would be so kind, Ive a few questions I'd like to toss your way.</div><div> </div><div>1.  From the transition to EQ2 from EQ1 why did you folks descide to remove the Beastmaster class?  What was the reasoning behind it.  I know it was a beloved class, and a hated class by many. </div><div> </div><div>2.  When you folks were tossing around the idea to add new races ,what made you descide to use the Ratonga and the Kerra, and more importanly, why did you opt to get rid of the Vah Shir.  Was it due to being able to make more "human like" models rather then the more cat like ones used on the Vah Shir?</div><div> </div><div>3.  If there are no gods minding the store so to speak, how are the healers ,(clerics) if you will ,casting healing spells still?  After all, they get the ability to heal through divine channeling.  Sort of like your electric company going out of business...No power from them, means no power for you.</div><div> </div><div>4.  Do you see the addition of any new classes in the future? </div><div> </div><div>5.  Do you see the possibility of new starter zones to level fresh new faces up in?</div><div> </div><div>6.  What is your opinion on charactors being able to multiclass at some time in the future?</div><div> </div><div>    Thats all for now, Im sure I will come up with more questions in the future.</div><p>Message Edited by vikingthug on <span class="date_text">04-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:43 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>From a technical standpoint, the beastlord doesn't fall into any one archetype, but rather all 4 of them, so they couldn't add it in without changing it to a class that already exists or remove too many elements to make it what it is.</p><p> </p><p>From a lore standpoint, they just decided that beastlords never existed in the first place in this alternate universe that EQ2 takes place in.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>As for the Kerra, read up on thier history. They are genetically, the Vah Shir, just not by name.</p>

[quamdar]

now that they removed archetype stuff i think they might start adding some new classes and it would be easier to just grab a class so many like from EQ1 than it would be to try to create an all new class.  and wasn't the name of the class beastlord not beast master?<div></div>

[vikingthug]

<div></div>Im hoping to hear from a dev, but not holding my breath.

[vikingthug]

<div>This is for Cusa, mostly, if you cant see the blatent differences between the Vah Shir and the kerra, up your dossage.  My question was why did they opt to go with the Kerra and not stick with the Vah Shir.. Not a debate on the genetic similarities between them.  Id just like to know why.  I dont think thats asking to much in any sense of the word.  Ive read the lore, I know the different versions of history surrounding them.  There are two sides to this arguement.  Id rather hear from Vahl, or someone with authority exspecially on that particular topic.  I firmly believe they did it because it was far simpler to apply the more human look to the facial features.  My response to that is that they are not meant to appear like mongral human/cat hybrids.  They are a feline race that is mearly bi-pedal.  Comparing the Vah Shir to the Kerra in appearence is insane...How long ago was the shattering?  And now suddenly, exspecially in terms of evolution the kerra have all adopted the large brawnier genetic charactoristics of the Vah Shir?  Sorry, that theory is so full of holes its not even worth agruing about..  Thats why Id rather hear from the folks who came up with the idea in the first place, so i can, atleast for myself, put it to rest once and for all.</div>

[Cusashorn]

<div>I don't know... I'm just throwing out a guess there.. umm. maybe because the moon blew up?</div>

[vikingthug]

<div></div><div></div>My god, are you really that unimaginative?  Do you really think the Vah Shir were all on the moon when it went..What about the hundreds, if not thousands that were on Norrath...Couple that with the fact you have no definative proof they did not survive.Weve allready hashed it out about what may or may not be alive up there.  The moon did not "blow up", mearly a chunk broke free.  Its entirly possible that there are more then just a few surivors up there.  Even looking up at the sky at night you can still see that a very large section is still very much intact.<p>Message Edited by vikingthug on <span class="date_text">04-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:54 AM</span></p>

[vikingthug]

<div>To be frank, since neither of us have proof ie information on what is left up there at present, our arguing is pointless.  Neither of us know for certain.  Thats why I am again asking the Devs to aid in settling this once and for all.  Either way Id like to put it to rest.  I dont think thats asking for too much.</div>

[Xita]

<div></div><p>werent there ikky beastlords as well with little alligators?</p><p> </p>

[Kindayr]

<div>^^^ Its Ikkys with Scaled Wolves, Barbarians with Wolves, Orgres with bears, and Trolls with Alligators, and of course, Vah Shir with Tigers</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Also, yea of course some would have stayed on Norrath, but if i'm correct, Kerran are already a mix between the Vah Shir and the Kejebekians (lol whatever their names were, the shamanistic cats.) Also, I'm pretty sure that the remaining Vah Shir's probally mated with Kerran, coming to the Kerra we know now.</div>

[Vhalen]

<div>These are some touchy subjects that not even my dusty books can answer, but answers do exist.</div><div> </div><div><div>1.  The world has changed and lore exists to reinforce many of those changes. The Beastmasters gifts have not been lost to Norrath.</div><div> </div><div>2.  The Ratonga have been in the works for a long, long time. Their origin may help explain a bit more why they exist. Maybe we will see more of that in the future. The Vah Shir are not entirely gone. Their grand society though... well... who knows?   </div><div> </div><div>3.  You truly need to understand the cosmology of the EQ universe. Lucan and a few others understand it much better, now.</div><div> </div><div>4.  Anything is possible. Hints of possiblities often exist in notable personalities. But that does not mean we are intent on releasing such things. That is something a lore master could not confirm on his own. Not even the Nameless can make that call.</div><div> </div><div>5.  See the answer to 4.</div><div> </div><div>6.  Once again, refer to 4.</div></div>

[Wargod1968]

<div></div><div>3. is answered, possibly, by a quest in Sunken City. In the quest, you are told by a Dismal Rage inquisitor that the gods were possibly only instruments for the actual power they represented, not the source. Thus, Cazic Thule is not the source of godly power, merely a powerful avatar or instrument - the real power of Fear is Fear itself. The Dismal Rage bypasses the gods to access the divine directly, now. Hence, worshipping the concepts of Hate, Fear and War, without having a god as an intermediary. Just one thought on the matter.</div>

[Raevin]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Wargod1968 wrote:<div></div><div>3. is answered, possibly, by a quest in Sunken City. In the quest, you are told by a Dismal Rage inquisitor that the gods were possibly only instruments for the actual power they represented, not the source. Thus, Cazic Thule is not the source of godly power, merely a powerful avatar or instrument - the real power of Fear is Fear itself. The Dismal Rage bypasses the gods to access the divine directly, now. Hence, worshipping the concepts of Hate, Fear and War, without having a god as an intermediary. Just one thought on the matter.</div><hr></blockquote>Makes perfect sense to me, and it's exactly the way I play Raevin.  She calls on the power of Nature to heal, but scorns the thought of worshipping any god.  Tunare means nothing to her.

[ke'la]

As to adding a new Newbe zones, well while they are not new the sugnificat revampes of both the Newbe Isles AND the outter city zones have made going there a nearly completly differant experiance(I have like 5 alts all Half or wood elfs and they all spent time in Forest Ruins and I am really enjoying this new version)<div></div>

[Wargod1968]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>ke'la wrote:As to adding a new Newbe zones, well while they are not new the sugnificat revampes of both the Newbe Isles AND the outter city zones have made going there a nearly completly differant experiance(I have like 5 alts all Half or wood elfs and they all spent time in Forest Ruins and I am really enjoying this new version)<div></div><hr></blockquote>Agree on all counts. These are much better designed, thought out, and fun, now <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[DreamerClou]

<div></div><div></div><p>Supposedly the gods turned their backs on the mortals of Norrath because we became too powerful and arrogant for our own good.  For that reason the gods "left" us.  Now maybe, just maybe that isn't entirely true.  Maybe the source of a gods power comes from mortals who worship, obey, fear, them etc. etc.  Now since the mortals became so powerful (in EQ1 planes of power time) that the grip and bonds that the gods had over us weaken and partially faded.  The gods could do nothing about either. </p><p>Maybe by sneaking that bomb that Sol Ro had in the Nexus onto Norrath might shake things up here and force us to fear them again.  However that plan seems to have been nixxed by a certain dragon.  So as a result perhaps the gods had to go into hiding without their power over us....  Perhaps Lucan understands this and is playing off this. Is this an idea or am I just dreaming? lol  I'd like people's input.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Message Edited by DreamerCloud9 on <span class="date_text">04-08-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:53 AM</span></p>

[Korpo]

So, reading the title of this thread on the dev tracker gave me a VERY different idea about what was being discussed.<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Vhalen wrote:<div>These are some touchy subjects that not even my dusty books can answer, but answers do exist.</div><div> </div><div><div>1.  The world has changed and lore exists to reinforce many of those changes. The Beastmasters gifts have not been lost to Norrath.</div><div> </div><div>2. The Vah Shir are not entirely gone. Their grand society though... well... who knows?   </div><div><hr></div></div></blockquote>Hey Vikingthug, you happy now? Even though Vhalen is very obviously saying they have no intention of reintroducing either one *ANYTIME IN THE FORSEEABLE FUTURE*, at least he's not telling you not to get your hope up, or let them down.<p>Message Edited by Cusashorn on <span class="date_text">04-08-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:44 AM</span></p>

[Kindayr]

<div>^^ Doesn't Vhalen always say that? lol.</div>

[vikingthug]

<div></div>Atlest there is hope, after listening to you, which is hard to stomach  when your not blathering on about how you just "know" whats going to happen,  that bit of info from the Big V is refreshing if not horribly vague which is the status quo it seems.    Also, now that we know that the knowledge for being a BM is not lost, Im sure that the other folks who played and truly enjoyed the class are hopeull, while those who hated the class are probably gnashing theyre teeth.<div></div><p>Message Edited by vikingthug on <span class="date_text">04-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:22 PM</span></p>

[Cusashorn]

<div>Well I am going to correct you one last time though: It's BeastLORD, not Beastmaster.</div>

[DreamerClou]

<div></div>Vhalen called them Beastmasters too.  But more on topic --  I really didn't like that class much in EQ1.  I actually didn't like beserkers much either.  That said, I wouldn't mind seeing that knowledge discovered again.  Afterall, there were a lot of Beastlord/Beastmaster players out there in EQ1.

[Cusashorn]

<div>Feh. Berzerkers were only created as a marketing ploy to sell the Gates of Discord expansion pack. The class was barely though up and even less tested.</div>

[ume]

<P>There are beastlord mob on the newbie island.</P> <P>Bears, hawks, wolves....oh my.</P> <P>However, it didn't appear they had any of the neat little tricks the BL's from EQ had.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Wargod1968]

I loved my Ogre BL with his bear in EQ1. But I just can't see how they could balance the class in EQ2 without making some serious pruning. Slows, heals, tough pet, melee skills, light tank, DoTs...  With AAs, the pet could be spruced up (ahem.. Shaman?), but it is a tough fit to place this class and not step on toes. Old school BLs may not be happy with the result in EQ2. *shrug* we'll see. Needless to say, if it ever was implemented, I'd give it a shot.

[syous01]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vikingthug wrote:<BR> <DIV>Vhalen, if you would be so kind, Ive a few questions I'd like to toss your way.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.  From the transition to EQ2 from EQ1 why did you folks descide to remove the Beastmaster class?  What was the reasoning behind it.  I know it was a beloved class, and a hated class by many. <BR><FONT color=#ff0000>I believe from a raiding standpoint, it was really overpowered. To balance the class I think they had to eliminate it all together. </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2.  When you folks were tossing around the idea to add new races ,what made you descide to use the Ratonga and the Kerra, and more importanly, why did you opt to get rid of the Vah Shir.  Was it due to being able to make more "human like" models rather then the more cat like ones used on the Vah Shir?<BR><FONT color=#ff0000>More human like models are easier on the graphics and armor design.</FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3.  If there are no gods minding the store so to speak, how are the healers ,(clerics) if you will ,casting healing spells still?  After all, they get the ability to heal through divine channeling.  Sort of like your electric company going out of business...No power from them, means no power for you.<BR><FONT color=#ff0000>Clerics get their healing powers from the gods in DnD. In EQ they get it from mana</FONT>. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4.  Do you see the addition of any new classes in the future?<BR><FONT color=#ff0000>No I personally don't, we have plenty as is.</FONT>  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>5.  Do you see the possibility of new starter zones to level fresh new faces up in?<BR><FONT color=#ff0000>There is more than enough content for new characters. Alot of people want new zones but haven't finished half of the quests and stuff the existing.</FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>6.  What is your opinion on charactors being able to multiclass at some time in the future?<BR><FONT color=#ff0000>This would take ALOT of work especially with balancing issues. If something could be worked out, I'd be glad to see it.</FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>    Thats all for now, Im sure I will come up with more questions in the future.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by vikingthug on <SPAN class=date_text>04-07-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>07:43 AM</SPAN></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[obnoxa]

<DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Clerics get their healing powers from the gods in DnD. In EQ they get it from mana</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>Small correction here, we <EM>consume</EM> power to use healing spells. The ability itself is not bestowed by mana.</DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Priests derive thier magic from the presence of the gods in EQlive. The same applies now. The gods have silenced themselves and sealed themselves off, but they still exist, and by that alone, priests can still cast.</DIV>

[Spockmaster]

<div><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div>Priests derive thier magic from the presence of the gods in EQlive. The same applies now. The gods have silenced themselves and sealed themselves off, but they still exist, and by that alone, priests can still cast.</div><hr></blockquote>Technically, isnt it only Clerics that draw their healing power from the gods?  I thought Druids drew their power from nature itself, and Shamans from their ancestors.</div>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Spockmaster wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>Priests derive thier magic from the presence of the gods in EQlive. The same applies now. The gods have silenced themselves and sealed themselves off, but they still exist, and by that alone, priests can still cast.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Technically, isnt it only Clerics that draw their healing power from the gods?  I thought Druids drew their power from nature itself, and Shamans from their ancestors.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well, technically, no priest class, druid, cleric, or shaman, could exist in the game without having a religion forced apon them. The only exception being the Vah Shir Shaman, because the Vah Shir as an entire race were agnostic regardless. They were more attuned to the spirits.

[Spockmaster]

<div><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Spockmaster wrote: <div> <blockquote> <hr> Cusashorn wrote: <div>Priests derive thier magic from the presence of the gods in EQlive. The same applies now. The gods have silenced themselves and sealed themselves off, but they still exist, and by that alone, priests can still cast.</div> <hr> </blockquote>Technically, isnt it only Clerics that draw their healing power from the gods?  I thought Druids drew their power from nature itself, and Shamans from their ancestors.</div> <hr> </blockquote>Well, technically, no priest class, druid, cleric, or shaman, could exist in the game without having a religion forced apon them. The only exception being the Vah Shir Shaman, because the Vah Shir as an entire race were agnostic regardless. They were more attuned to the spirits.<hr></blockquote>Ah, I only knew Clerics had to pick (really only every played my warrior, and rolled only a few other classes.)</div>

[Wargod1968]

There is some current lore (see the Inquisitor in the Sunken City) that suggests that clerics (and other priests) derive their power directly from a primal source in EQ2, and bypass the gods directly, who were implied to be mediators to the greater powers (of hate, war and fear). The Dismal Rage obviously makes no reference to god worship directly, and most of the Dismal Rage NPCs seem to profess that the gods are gone, and obsolete. Just one thought - no reason this isn't a part of a bigger picture, perhaps.

[Sigr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wargod1968 wrote:<BR> There is some current lore (see the Inquisitor in the Sunken City) that suggests that clerics (and other priests) derive their power directly from a primal source in EQ2, and bypass the gods directly, who were implied to be mediators to the greater powers (of hate, war and fear). The Dismal Rage obviously makes no reference to god worship directly, and most of the Dismal Rage NPCs seem to profess that the gods are gone, and obsolete. Just one thought - no reason this isn't a part of a bigger picture, perhaps.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>With Lucan D'Lere regularly passing himself off as the only god left for Norrath, it doesn't surprise me that the Dismal Rage would say that the gods are dead and/or obsolete.  Saying that Cazic-Thule or Innoruuk is still around would be treasonous, which is probably why they make more subtle references to their influences instead.  Is it possible they actually believe the gods are dead?  Sure.  But with all the cataclysmic events that have occurred over the last 500 years, I would think such beliefs being genuine would be pretty remote.</P>

[Wargod1968]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sigrah wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wargod1968 wrote:<BR> There is some current lore (see the Inquisitor in the Sunken City) that suggests that clerics (and other priests) derive their power directly from a primal source in EQ2, and bypass the gods directly, who were implied to be mediators to the greater powers (of hate, war and fear). The Dismal Rage obviously makes no reference to god worship directly, and most of the Dismal Rage NPCs seem to profess that the gods are gone, and obsolete. Just one thought - no reason this isn't a part of a bigger picture, perhaps.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>With Lucan D'Lere regularly passing himself off as the only god left for Norrath, it doesn't surprise me that the Dismal Rage would say that the gods are dead and/or obsolete.  Saying that Cazic-Thule or Innoruuk is still around would be treasonous, which is probably why they make more subtle references to their influences instead.  Is it possible they actually believe the gods are dead?  Sure.  But with all the cataclysmic events that have occurred over the last 500 years, I would think such beliefs being genuine would be pretty remote.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>From NPC dialog, I don't think the Dismal Rage believes the gods dead - just that their departure in the wake of their being regularly killed by mortals in Planes highlights that they are superfluous -  like the Wizard of Oz, pretending to be the actual Powers, when in fact, they were not true gods at all. Gods dont die a the hands of their worshippers. I'd say Veeshan or the Nameless qualify more as actual gods.</P> <P>I'd say it would be a mixed bag of beliefs. Definitely more pro-divinity in Qeynos, and more anti-divinity in FP, with room for lots of opinion.</P> <P>Just my speculation from in-game observations. I could be wrong. But knowing SOE, they love to leave EQ lore rather fuzzy anyhow, and that's a good thing. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></P>