Question for Vhalen or other dev

[Saber]

In order to resolve a debate in this thread on the eqforums, http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Lore&message.id=9281,could you please answer this question: Is it or is it not true that EQLive and EQ2 diverge at the end of the Planes of Power storyline, and before that, they were the same world?<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Saberen wrote:In order to resolve a debate in this thread on the eqforums, http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Lore&message.id=9281,could you please answer this question: Is it or is it not true that EQLive and EQ2 diverge at the end of the Planes of Power storyline, and before that, they were the same world?<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>*reads the thread*</p><p> </p><p>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?</p>

[Saroc_Luclin]

<div></div>Not a dev, but as I said in the spin-off thread from that one (so does that mean I tossed 4cp into it? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, I believe the rule of thumb is  that Events in EQLIve that occured up to Quarmm's death and Druzil's Reset Button also occured as we know them in EQII's history.On the other hand, events that we find out about  in EQLive AFTER PoTime was beaten may or may not have occured that way in EQII's history, or may have spun out differently. EVEN IF the actual event occured BEFORE PoTime was beaten. Consider it like Temporal ripples that went forward and backwards throuhg the EQ Timelines causing events in the past to occur differently between the two time lines.That's about the only way you can resolve EQLive events like Mayong's adventures in Darkhollow (complete with Illsalin/Drachnid/Werewolf wars), and the Muramite Invasion of Taelosia having no impact in current EQII era that we can tell, even though the Muramite Invasion and Mayong's creation of Dreadspire occured BEFORE Plane of Time was breached. (That's not to say neither of those events occured in EQII's past; we just don't have the information available to us from the Depths of the Past to determine if they occured and HOW they occured, meaning they effectively did not occur)So even if the EQII Devs decide to bring in the Ruined Ruins of Illsalin at some point and the Collapsed Keep of Dreadspire, we here in the future can't really use information from EQLive's timeline to fill in the lore holes except in a very tentative manner; the only certain information we would have about it would be whatever lore the EQII Dev's give us.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Saroc_Luclin on <span class="date_text">03-20-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:22 PM</span></p>

[Cusashorn]

<div>As Captain Janeway once said: "My advice on trying to understand temporal time-space paradoxes: DONT."</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>That said, You're gonna hurt yourself if you think too much.</div>

[Jindrack]

<div>*cryptic voice*</div><div> </div><div>The answer can be found in Zebuxoruk's words...</div><div> </div><div>*nods sagely*</div>

[Eriol]

<blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div>As Captain Janeway once said: "My advice on trying to understand temporal time-space paradoxes: DONT."</div><div>That said, You're gonna hurt yourself if you think too much.</div><hr></blockquote>Try reading the temporal theories on www.chronocompendium.com sometime. THOSE will give you headaches, as they are REALLY trying to be internally-consistent in a world where it isn't certain if the AUTHORS were trying to be such.

[Lunani]

<div></div>when zebixoruk was freed from his prison druzzil ro appeared and set back time.at this point a second reality was created, this is when eq1 and eq2 started to become differentyou can read the words of zebuxoruk <a target="_blank" href="http://lorenorrath.free.fr/read.php?link=zebuxoruk">here</a>

[Bhagpuss]

"And it came to pass that the two parchments continued on before me into parts I could no longer see, one traveling before the other and the words and symbols upon them both began to change, slightly at first but more and more profoundly as they continued on. And the space of time between them was the very same number of hours that was the appointed time of the Matron."So... the timeline splits at the conclusion of the Planes of Power storyline.From then on the history of Norrath diverges. The differences are small at first first but increase. We do not, however, have a scale for the rate of divergence, so it isn't possible to say whether specific events that did happen in EQ1 would or would not also have happened in EQ2. My guess would be that everything that's happened to date in EQ1 would pretty much have happened in EQ2 - you are only looking at a few years at most; not long enough for the divergence to become significant. That's really just a feeling though - for example, you couldn't say whether the realms of Discord had been discovered (be nice to think they weren't) unless you can find evidence in EQ2 that refers to them.The two timelines continue in parallel in perpetuity, presumably in the same space but seperated in time by the number of hours Druzzil rolled the clock back.<div></div>

[Saber]

Thank you. This is exactly what I knew, and argued. Unfortunately the individual with whom I was debating thought that the Words of Zeb were somehow irrelevant and inapplicable to EQ1, simply because they're located in the EQ2 world...<div></div>

[Duhulk]

<div>It would be terribly amusing to see in a later expansion, a rip in time and content from the other timeline pouring in =p.</div><div> </div><div>Oh NO! I just inadvertantly gave them a way to bring back Luclin! :smileysurprised:</div>

[Cusashorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Duhulk wrote:<div>It would be terribly amusing to see in a later expansion, a rip in time and content from the other timeline pouring in =p.</div><div> </div><div>Oh NO! I just inadvertantly gave them a way to bring back Luclin! :smileysurprised:</div><hr></blockquote><p>>_></p><p> </p><p>*Jumps over to EQlive and gets her monk's Sceptres of Destruction, Rune Etched Bamboo Bo, Shroud of Longevity, Primal Velium Fistwraps, Celestial Fists, Ton Po's Wristwraps of Enlightenment, Ton Po's Armwraps of Enlightenment, Ton Po's Slippers of Enlightenment, Leg Guard of Shadows, Cloak of the Black Wind, and Tan Chain Bridle.*</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>For some reason, the portal through time made all of my ancestor Yuffie's gear tradeable, so she gave them to me to make sure I can keep up my family's tradition of being uber and impossible to kill.</p>

[KniteShayd]

<div><p>For some reason, the portal through time made all of my ancestor Yuffie's gear tradeable, so she gave them to me to make sure I can keep up my family's tradition of being uber and impossible to kill.</p><p> </p><p>LOL:smileyvery-happy: Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!</p></div>

[Raolador]

<span><blockquote><hr>Bhagpuss wrote:for example, you couldn't say whether the realms of Discord had been discovered (be nice to think they weren't)<div></div><hr></blockquote></span>Quoted for truth.<div></div>

[Kondul]

From then on the history of Norrath diverges. The differences are small at first first but increase. We do not, however, have a scale for the rate of divergence, so it isn't possible to say whether specific events that did happen in EQ1 would or would not also have happened in EQ2. My guess would be that everything that's happened to date in EQ1 would pretty much have happened in EQ2 - you are only looking at a few years at most; not long enough for the divergence to become significant. That's really just a feeling though - for example, you couldn't say whether the realms of Discord had been discovered (be nice to think they weren't) unless you can find evidence in EQ2 that refers to them.Well, The timelines are quite clearly divergant now, EQLive introduced Evil Frogloks (corrupted by Innoruuk) awhile ago, but they're no where to be seen in EQ2, so we can only assume that we've started splitting in terms of major events by this point.

[Lifeswor]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Kondular wrote:Well, The timelines are quite clearly divergant now, EQLive introduced Evil Frogloks (corrupted by Innoruuk) awhile ago, but they're no where to be seen in EQ2, so we can only assume that we've started splitting in terms of major events by this point.<hr></blockquote>If you are referring to the Frogloks of Lower Guk, then they existed since before Ruins of Kunark expansion. The reason they don't exist in EQ2 is because the area of Innothule Swamp has not yet been rediscovered (it was south of the desert of Ro in EQLive). Personally I do hope we will get to see it as well as find out what happened to Guk, as it was one of my favourite zones in EQLive.</span></div>

[Saroc_Luclin]

No, when the Frogs were booted out of Gukta, Inny managed to expand his influence over some of them. So now the Froglok PC race can be evil classes like SK, Necromancer and stuff. In EQLive that is.<div></div>

[Lifeswor]

Aaahh gotcha, musta been just after I left EQLive.<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Lifesworde wrote:Aaahh gotcha, musta been just after I left EQLive.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Yeah they got kicked out of Gukta by the Trolls, and now they're the only race that doesn't have it's own home city. They now start in Rathe Mountains in one of the encampments.