Have you ever seen orcs practicing necromancy?

[dalaorn_eq2]

<div></div>Something that occured to me recently is, despite the evil nature of orcs, I don't think, in EQOA, EQ1, or EQ2, I've ever seen any orc of a shadowknight or necromancer variety, in that I've never seen an orc with an undead pet, nor have I ever been harmtouched or lifetapped by an orc in any of these games (of course, I'm still pretty low level in EQ1 at only lv 26, and I've yet to see 90% of that version of Norrath, but still, I've already fought a LOT of orcs already from several different orc tribes).  Heck, the only orcs I can remember even casting a DoT on me were the shamanic types.  Now, maybe lack of intelligence can explain why no pure necromancers seem to exist among the orcs as it involves research and literacy, but that never affected the ogre and troll races when it comes to shadowknights, who seem to enjoy necromancy as an innate talent from within rather than as a studied and learned discipline.  And orcs just strike me as slightly more intelligent than trolls and ogres combined, relatively speaking.Is it just an arbitrary style decision by the developers -- ie, it would be "over the top" and cliched to pile up that much of the same theme on an NPC -- or is there enough official lore behind orcs that might explain why they seem to shy away from the necromantic arts, even so much as to avoid being shadowknights?(and I don't think their alliance with Rallos Zek as their creator and deity has anything to do with it -- that never stopped certain goblin tribes from adopting necromancy)<div></div>

[Yinkendra]

<div>Might be becourse the curse is liftet? :smileyindifferent:</div>

[Vostik]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>dalaorn_eq2 wrote:<div></div>Something that occured to me recently is, despite the evil nature of orcs, I don't think, in EQOA, EQ1, or EQ2, I've ever seen any orc of a shadowknight or necromancer variety, in that I've never seen an orc with an undead pet, nor have I ever been harmtouched or lifetapped by an orc in any of these games (of course, I'm still pretty low level in EQ1 at only lv 26, and I've yet to see 90% of that version of Norrath, but still, I've already fought a LOT of orcs already from several different orc tribes).  Heck, the only orcs I can remember even casting a DoT on me were the shamanic types.  Now, maybe lack of intelligence can explain why no pure necromancers seem to exist among the orcs as it involves research and literacy, but that never affected the ogre and troll races when it comes to shadowknights, who seem to enjoy necromancy as an innate talent from within rather than as a studied and learned discipline.  And orcs just strike me as slightly more intelligent than trolls and ogres combined, relatively speaking.Is it just an arbitrary style decision by the developers -- ie, it would be "over the top" and cliched to pile up that much of the same theme on an NPC -- or is there enough official lore behind orcs that might explain why they seem to shy away from the necromantic arts, even so much as to avoid being shadowknights?(and I don't think their alliance with Rallos Zek as their creator and deity has anything to do with it -- that never stopped certain goblin tribes from adopting necromancy)<div></div><hr></blockquote>Go get whooped by Redwind in Everfrost (EQ1). He's a Shadownight... <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Around lvl 30. Careful... he has a group of friends around him.

[AbsentmindedMage]

Yes, I have seen orcs practicing Necromancy.   The Crushbone Orcs seem to practice.   You can locate the Crushbone orcs on the 3rd level of the Clefts of Rujark in Desert of Flames.<div></div>

[PinkBi]

<div></div>I think in EQ1 they didn't practice it because they were ruled by a Shamanistic society, and so the Shamans didn't want other people communicating with the dead/spirit world.

[Cusashorn]

<div>I think a few of the Ry'Gorr orcs on Velious were shadowknights as well.</div>

[Vostik]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div>I think a few of the Ry'Gorr orcs on Velious were shadowknights as well.</div><hr></blockquote>I completely forgot about them. I think you're right... <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Terayon]

I think a bigger concern than their lack of necromantic practice is their lack of women! lol<div></div>

[lillin]

<div></div>They could probally be sk's but never necromancers.  Only intelligent evil races can be necromancers and sk's are the work horse meat shileds that flunked out of necromancer shcool =)

[AbsentmindedMage]

<span><blockquote><hr>lillin wrote:<div></div>They could probally be sk's but never necromancers.  Only intelligent evil races can be necromancers and sk's are the work horse meat shileds that flunked out of necromancer shcool =)<hr></blockquote>As I said above, the Crushbone orcs in Clefts in Desert of Flames ARE Necromancers.  I think some of them are warlocks also.  But they are certainly necromancers.  They have summoned undead pets and do life tap.</span><div></div>

[lillin]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>AbsentmindedMage wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>lillin wrote:<div></div>They could probally be sk's but never necromancers.  Only intelligent evil races can be necromancers and sk's are the work horse meat shileds that flunked out of necromancer shcool =)<hr></blockquote>As I said above, the Crushbone orcs in Clefts in Desert of Flames ARE Necromancers.  I think some of them are warlocks also.  But they are certainly necromancers.  <font color="#ff6600">They have summoned undead pets and do life tap.</font></span><div></div><hr></blockquote>So can sk's =) .  Open up to the world of humor, its a grand place. With all the seriousness of most eq players i honestly think some of you get ulcers from playing.

[Vhalen]

<div></div><p>The orcs have gotten ahold of necromantic arts they never had before. There is a large story behind the trading of dark arts secrets within the orc empires. Clues have been presented, but the story has yet to begin.</p><p>I noticed a post on this thread mentioned a lack of female orcs amongst the orc empires. There is a large story behind this as well. I am not sure we will ever tell you this tale, but the orcs are well aware of the lack of females their armies. We have placed hints and may someday reveal a bit about this. Sullon Zek plays a part in the story of lack of orc females. Here's a bit from my personal library. Vhalen's mad libs!</p><p><span>Sullon Zek is the patron deity of ______ orcs. Those orcs are ______ and have paid homage to her since the birth of the orc race. Sullon Zek was displeased with the ill concern of the entire Hall of Zek when their ______ abandoned ________. Her intense displeasure led to a revolt within the Plane of War that lasted nearly a decade. Her ferocity and vengeful rage ironically earned her the respect of Rallos Zek. She was appointed a seat among the generals of Zek, but in order to remind her of who was the master, Rallos Zek horrifically scarred one side of the face of the beautiful Sullon Zek. </span></p><p> </p>

[Rezikai]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>dalaorn_eq2 wrote:<div></div>Something that occured to me recently is, despite the evil nature of orcs, I don't think, <strong><font color="#ffff00">in EQOA</font></strong>, EQ1, or EQ2, I've ever seen any orc of a shadowknight or necromancer variety, in that I've never seen an orc with an undead pet, nor have I ever been harmtouched or lifetapped by an orc in any of these games (of course, I'm still pretty low level in EQ1 at only<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>bolded the part im typing about...</p><p>in EQoA the Deathfists had Sk's they were known as <em>DeathFist</em> <em><font color="#ff0033">Reavers</font></em>.. you'll notice they only have a dual strike (as all SKs in EQoA only get)  after lvl 35 while other Deathfists warrior classes ( DF champions) will quad you.</p><p>In EQOA the Orc empire had shamans and clerics... but never Necromancers.. but then again the huge Empire they had in that game was larger then in EQ1 so them getting the Necro arts from Ogres ( who could become Necros in EQoA) is possible since they alligned to form the new (umm i think 2nd rallosian) empire that took place between EQ1 and EQ2... (my info/history is a little hazzy... its a m00nday...)</p><p>but no... ive never been harmtouched buy a Orc SK.. now.. other EQOA SK Npcs have done it to my poor small HP pooled rge...:smileysad:</p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Porkchop133 on <span class="date_text">03-20-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:20 PM</span></p>

[Almeric_CoS]

<div></div>Oh oh!  This'll be just like when I was a kid on long car trips with my family!<blockquote><hr>Vhalen wrote:<div></div><p><span>Sullon Zek is the patron deity of <u><font color="#ff0066">purple</font></u> orcs. Those orcs are <u><font color="#ff0066">zany</font></u> and have paid homage to her since the birth of the orc race. Sullon Zek was displeased with the ill concern of the entire Hall of Zek when their <font color="#ff0066"><u>toilets</u> </font>abandoned <u><font color="#ff0066">the zoo</font></u>. Her intense displeasure led to a revolt within the Plane of War that lasted nearly a decade. Her ferocity and vengeful rage ironically earned her the respect of Rallos Zek. She was appointed a seat among the generals of Zek, but in order to remind her of who was the master, Rallos Zek horrifically scarred one side of the face of the beautiful Sullon Zek. </span></p><hr></blockquote>Cool, that was fun...MORE, MORE!

[Saroc_Luclin]

Looks like a slight disconnect about Sullon Zek's history between games (no surprise and just makes things more intersting as they come to light. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ).The following is the outline about Sullon Zek from EQLive. This information was released in the Prophecy of Ro manual, so it is post PoP and doesn't have all that much bearing on EQII, but it might be interesting to draw some parallels between.<span><blockquote><hr><div><p><font size="2"> Sullon Zek</font></p><p><font size="2"> In a long forgotten age, Sullon McKlarren was a simple barbarian whose only desire was to defend her northern homeland on Antonica from its enemies. Battle after battle, she excelled as her prowess with axes and swords was unmatched. She was always victorious, slaying ice giants, fierce wild beasts, and many others. Halas, the barbarian city, came to rely on Sullon and her small band of friends as defenders of their home. </font></p><p><font size="2">As she battled she learned to focus her anger and hate for her enemies. Her focused ire became so great that she seemed to shift into an alternate consciousness. During those moments, even her friends could not reach her, and it worried them. In those fierce states of pure rage, Sullon was unstoppable. Even her faithful wolves, Ghost and Snowtail, began to spend more time away from her than at her side. They feared for her, but more than that they grew afraid of her. And each time Sullon used her talent for focusing her rage, she seemed to get stronger, so strong in fact, that Rallos Zek, the god of war, noticed her. Her unique talents were of great interest to him and so he summoned her to Drundar, the Fortress of Zek.</font></p><p><font size="2"> In the great pit of Drundar, Rallos Zek pitted Sullon against many of his champions and favored warriors. They all failed. Sullon's ferocity and talent almost made her challenges boring. With few champions left to fight Sullon, Rallos Zek stepped into the pit himself and faced her. With humility, Sullon lowered her axes to the ground and began to kneel when Rallos issued a terrifying yell and forbade her from ever dropping her axes again. He commander her to fight him. And she did.</font></p><p><font size="2">For what seemed like hours they fought in the pit. Sullon, consumed by her rage, sent her blades whirling, her body lithe and limber evaded and seemed to curl around Rallos' strikes. The ring of parries chimed throughout Drundar as Rallos' minions began to gather around the pit. Never before had such a fight been witnessed. Sullon never seemed to tire. Her first strikes still as strong as her last -- the one that found Rallos' axe and both of hers locked together. Sullon shook with anger and ferocity trying to break her weapons free, perfectly willing to drop them and take on the great god of war with her bare fists.</font></p><p><font size="2">That's when Rallos laughed so loudly it shook the great stone fortress. His laugh surprised Sullon so much that her focused rage was interrupted and she kneeled before him, prepared to die for having the audacity to take up arms against a god. As she waited for the sting of an axe on her neck, she felt only the cold touch of steel on each shoulder as Rallos anointed her as the Maiden of Rage. He gave her dominion over the aspects of war that manifest in pure rage. None save Rallos himself could withstand her in battle, though her brothers thought that they could defeat her, for they were wiser than she. They, of course, never attempted to prove their claims.</font></p><p><font size="2"> Legends say that she remains inside Razorthorn, her tower within the stronghold, urging those dedicated to her to increase their rage and learn to focus it. It is said that she will honor those that do so by allowing them to serve her in the tower. There are other legends that say that she was betrayed by her father, Rallos Zek, and imprisoned in that tower because he feared her strength. The legends are merely rumor, however. Only Sullon Zek and perhaps those that serve her in her tower know the truth.</font></p></div><hr></blockquote>The above information comes from a post on the <a target="_blank" href="http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Lore&message.id=9583#M9583">EQLive boards</a> copying the PoR Manual. The thread of that post also has the other lore information from the expansion.</span><div></div>

[Rijacki]

No disconnect, an earlier account (and more detailed) than the other, perhaps.  Should be interesting when it fully comes to light.<div></div>

[Nainitsuj]

<div></div>Why are there no goblin females, or giant females?  No wonder they're always mad and attacking everyone they see.

[AbsentmindedMage]

<span><blockquote><hr>Nainitsuj wrote:Why are there no goblin females, or giant females?  No wonder they're always mad and attacking everyone they see.<hr></blockquote>Why does everyone assume that every sentinet species must have two genders?  Maybe goblins are </span><font size="-1">Androgynous.   <span>:smileysurprised:</span>I am pretty sure that the Zygmoid mushroom people are.I have no explanation or theory as to why there are no giant females.  Though it would be really cool to finally discover them.</font><div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<blockquote><hr>AbsentmindedMage wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Nainitsuj wrote:Why are there no goblin females, or giant females?  No wonder they're always mad and attacking everyone they see.<hr></blockquote>Why does everyone assume that every sentinet species must have two genders?  Maybe goblins are </span><font size="-1">Androgynous.   <span>:smileysurprised:</span>I am pretty sure that the Zygmoid mushroom people are.I have no explanation or theory as to why there are no giant females.  Though it would be really cool to finally discover them.</font><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>There's a scientific explanation why fungi are asexual though.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>That said, the book "The Orcs of Norrath" states that the author of the book had never once seen a female orc in all the time he has studied orcs. That means that at first glance, the sheer numbers of these creatures may be more than double from what anything anyone has ever seen before on Norrath.</p><p> </p><p>Seeing as how orcs, goblins, giants, gnolls, etc. more often than not don't wear much clothing, it's best to just leave the females out of the game instead of risking having the video game version of Standards and Practices get on thier case.</p>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<div></div>As long as we're talking about it, It seems as if skeletons and zombies are all of the same gender as well.

[Carnelian]

<span><blockquote><hr>Mary the Prophetess wrote:<div></div>As long as we're talking about it, It seems as if skeletons and zombies are all of the same gender as well.<hr></blockquote>It's pretty hard to tell gender differences in skeletons, what with most of the things we use to tell the difference being on the fleshy side... <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><p>There is a rather fundamental difference in the pelvic structure between males and females.  It is readily observable in skeletons. (fleshy differences aside):</p><p> </p><p><img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/98/Gray241.png" height="404" alt="" width="500" border="0"></p><p> </p><p><img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0f/Gray242.png" alt="" height="321" width="450" border="0"></p><p> </p><p>Note that the female pelvis has a large circular opening so that little skeletons can be born.</p><p>Physicians in Erudin report that during birth, the bones in the pelvis actually dialate.  They report that this often seems to cause some 'mild discomfort' on the woman's part, and may explain why they sometimes seem a little impatient with their mates at this point in the delivery.</p><p>/shrugs</p><p>It's probably just a rumor. </p><p>/winks</p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Mary the Prophetess on <span class="date_text">03-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:52 PM</span></p>

[Carnelian]

Readily observable in those nice drawings, yes... Not so easy to see when the skeleton is trying to bash you over the head with a big stick <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Rijacki]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>CarnelianUK wrote:Readily observable in those nice drawings, yes... Not so easy to see when the skeleton is trying to bash you over the head with a big stick <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div><hr></blockquote>*blink* You don't stop to examine, in detail, the anatomy of the whatsis beating you over the head?  For shame!   *smirk*</span></div>

[Pyrrhx]

<div></div>The Orc females are locked away in breeding pens.  They decided not to let the orc women out after they proved that to be poor defenders of DFC in eqoa.

[Nainitsuj]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Pyrrhx wrote:<div></div>The Orc females are locked away in breeding pens.  They decided not to let the orc women out after they proved that to be poor defenders of DFC in eqoa.<hr></blockquote><p>Heh.  I always figured it would be a Ringworld answer.</p><p> </p><p>Not adding females to the ancient races because of clothing issues is weak at best.</p>

[Creppie]

<div></div><div>Removed duplicate post.  </div><p>Message Edited by Creppie on <span class=date_text>05-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:20 AM</span>

[ElnAckom]

Sorry for the necro, but it's apropos. To the OP, refer to this text from the new "The Bloodskull Threat" quest, spoken here by Arnisu Tobian in the Hidden Vale:<i>Sesketh: "Tecera sent me."<font color="#ffff00">Arnisu: "Ah, I see. Well, take this envelope then. It has what Tecera needs. Tell her I don't plan on staying much longer and I will see her soon."</font>Sesketh: "What are the orcs doing anyway?"<font color="#ffff00">Arnisu: "They're experimenting with necromancy, in a way."</font>Sesketh: "In a way?"<font color="#ffff00">Arnisu: "Well, I don't think they're just looking to reanimate corpses or control spirits. I think they're looking into actual resurrection, though they are going about it the wrong way."</font>Sesketh: "Why would they do that?"<font color="#ffff00">Arnisu: "I honestly don't know. Please, take this information to Tecera."</font></i><div></div>

[vikingthug]

I believe that the Orcs would make a great playable race.  The fact that there arent any female orcs is just weaksauce on the devs part IMHO.  If you want to see some pretty buff female Orc Chickas, well I hate to say it, but...WoW is your best bet.