Kingdom of Sky and possible Lore

[Ama]

<div>Well with the release of Kingdom of Sky and its overall specticals I believe we have new possiblities.  We can forge our own lore setting history the way we want to for our present and our future.  I did have an idea for this for a possible adventure pack but wanted to put it in the lore section to see what everyone thought about it.  I am wanting for a new adventure pack the mysterious and deadly Island of Dread.  However with current lore stateing everything was rended asunder in the great shattering that seemed highly unlikely that the Island of Dread could have survived.  The creatures upon the island were powerful however could not has been powerful as a god's might.  This is a possible addition of Lore to the Kingdom of Sky and how it could be done if you consider the history.</div><div> </div><div><font color="#0000ff">During the shattering the god Cazic-Thule took it upon himself to claim the Island of Dread as his own.  With his last remaining strength he tore the island from hits roost and sent it upward into the over realm.  In the over realm he hid the island placing three races that he hoped would resurrect him to his once great power.  The first race he cast was that of necromancy created to research the power of disease that could spread across lands.  The second race was that of Warlocks with the task of researching poison and its powers to kill anyone it saw fit.  He tasked the Third and Final race with research of the elements to aid poison and disease along with guarding the researchs of said tombs of knowledge.  They toil endlessly hoping to resurrect their long forgotten master to this world so he can rule over it as they believe he should. </font> </div><div> </div><div>Thats just my idea for lore within the great Kingdom of Sky that could be seen in the future.  The true question is what new lore can be brought to us through the Kingdom of Sky. </div>

[Cusashorn]

<div>Wasn't the Isle of Dread an EQOA zone?</div>

[Ama]

<div>It was and i'm wondering if it could exist in EQII since I have heard EQOA is like 500 years before EQ1.  However if you look at it from another angle you could say that the island cannot exist because it was destroyed during the shattering.  But I do pose the question what lore possibilities are oppened up for us with the introduction of the expansion Kingdom of Sky.</div>

[teddyboy4]

<span><blockquote><hr>Amana wrote:<div>Well with the release of Kingdom of Sky and its overall specticals I believe we have new possiblities.  We can forge our own lore setting history the way we want to for our present and our future.  I did have an idea for this for a possible adventure pack but wanted to put it in the lore section to see what everyone thought about it.  I am wanting for a new adventure pack the mysterious and deadly Island of Dread.  However with current lore stateing everything was rended asunder in the great shattering that seemed highly unlikely that the Island of Dread could have survived.  The creatures upon the island were powerful however could not has been powerful as a god's might.  This is a possible addition of Lore to the Kingdom of Sky and how it could be done if you consider the history.</div><div> </div><div><font color="#0000ff">During the shattering the god Cazic-Thule took it upon himself to claim the Island of Dread as his own.  With his last remaining strength he tore the island from hits roost and sent it upward into the over realm.  In the over realm he hid the island placing three races that he hoped would resurrect him to his once great power.  The first race he cast was that of necromancy created to research the power of disease that could spread across lands.  The second race was that of Warlocks with the task of researching poison and its powers to kill anyone it saw fit.  He tasked the Third and Final race with research of the elements to aid poison and disease along with guarding the researchs of said tombs of knowledge.  They toil endlessly hoping to resurrect their long forgotten master to this world so he can rule over it as they believe he should. </font> </div><div> </div><div>Thats just my idea for lore within the great Kingdom of Sky that could be seen in the future.  The true question is what new lore can be brought to us through the Kingdom of Sky. </div><hr></blockquote>These ideas are....interesting. First, the Isle of Dread was always Cazic's to begin with. I believe the lore of the island was that he created a rift on the island to test and train his followers, and torture and scare the bejesus out of his enemies. Secondly, anything is possible I suppose, but I don't think it is really Cazic's style to do something like what you are suggesting. If anything he would just bring the inhabitants of the Isle into his own realm until a time he saw fit to unleash them upon Norrath again. We might encounter something similiar in exploring the new landscape of Norrath, but as for the Isle of Dread itself, I doubt it. I am sure Cazic has something up his sleave, but there are so many other ways he could spread fear I think he'd just write the island off. After all, once mortals explore and become familiar with something, they usually lose thier fear of it. So I think Cazic will want to use new methods to spread his infuence.Also, don't mind Cush, for whatever reason she likes to write off EQoA's lore as if it just never happened. EQoA's lore IS canon, like it or not. Yes it may contridict some things from EQLive, but they had the same team of lore writers write the lore for EQoA as all other EQ games. In fact, EQoA's lore should carry more wieght as it is more up-to-date.</span><div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>teddyboy420 wrote:<span>Also, don't mind Cush, for whatever reason she likes to write off EQoA's lore as if it just never happened. EQoA's lore IS canon, like it or not. Yes it may contridict some things from EQLive, but they had the same team of lore writers write the lore for EQoA as all other EQ games. In fact, EQoA's lore should carry more wieght as it is more up-to-date.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Wow.</p><p>Just... wow.</p><p> </p><p>I ask a simple question and here you go putting words in my mouth.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>And just because EQOA came out after EQlive, that doesn't make it more "Up to date", because it still takes place 500 years in the past, which makes EQlive stlll more "Up to date" since it technically takes place later in the timeline.</p><p> </p><p>But this is a discussion for another thread.</p><p> </p><p>Did I ever once say that Isle of Dread should NOT be in EQ2 in my above post?</p><p>Message Edited by Cusashorn on <span class="date_text">02-25-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:56 PM</span></p>

[Pyrrhx]

<div></div><div></div><p>"Up to date"</p><p>I think what he meant by this is, EQOA happens at a point in time closer to the actual events and by chance may be more accurate than the lore from EQlive regarding some events occuring during or before the time of EQOA.  That's just my take..</p><p>As for the Isle of Dread.. As far as I remember, It was a physical location upon norrath that was pulled into the plane of fear in entirety, corrupting the villagers and other wildlife upon it, and then returned.  It is entirely possible that the Isle still exists, either on Norrath, or due to it's corruption, hidden away within some unknown region of the plane of fear waiting for the day that the pull of reality yanks it back into existence... </p><p>Again, that's just my take.  I always felt it was more of a pocket dimension of the Plane of Fear in much the same way that the Last Home (Springview Healer Sanitarium) was a pocket dimension of the Plane of Disease.</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Pyrrhx on <span class="date_text">02-25-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:12 PM</span></p>

[Ama]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Pyrrhx wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>"Up to date"</p><p>I think what he meant by this is, EQOA happens at a point in time closer to the actual events and by chance may be more accurate than the lore from EQlive regarding some events occuring during or before the time of EQOA.  That's just my take..</p><p>As for the Isle of Dread.. As far as I remember, It was a physical location upon norrath that was pulled into the plane of fear in entirety, corrupting the villagers and other wildlife upon it, and then returned.  It is entirely possible that the Isle still exists, either on Norrath, or due to it's corruption, hidden away within some unknown region of the plane of fear waiting for the day that the pull of reality yanks it back into existence... </p><p>Again, that's just my take.  I always felt it was more of a pocket dimension of the Plane of Fear in much the same way that the Last Home (Springview Healer Sanitarium) was a pocket dimension of the Plane of Disease.</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Pyrrhx on <span class="date_text">02-25-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:12 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Very interesting information Pyrrhx as well as the other posts.  That actually could be another way to put it to bring the infamous Island of Dread into EQII.  Since one poster said the Island of Dread was cazic thule's to begin with it eradicates what I said but in a good way.  From the above post we can also say that during the shattering the island was transported back to the plane of Fear.  However due to the time of the shattering it got mis directed and found its way into a secluded area of the Plane of Sky or in our time the Kingdom of Sky *aka the overrealm*.  The shattering was a huge global event that tore lands asunder, shifted areas, and disturbed everything that we knew about Norrath.  To tell the truth I actually like this lore part better and you could say instead of Cazic-Thule creating the 3 races.  The three races arouse to resurrect their long forgotten master.  This lore however is just one of several possiblities that are given to us with the introduction of Kingdom of Sky.  Love to see what others think maybe how we can discover the other planes, lost lands, or maybe something much more &gt<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> .

[troodon311]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>teddyboy420 wrote:<span>Also, don't mind Cush, for whatever reason she likes to write off EQoA's lore as if it just never happened. EQoA's lore IS canon, like it or not. Yes it may contridict some things from EQLive, but they had the same team of lore writers write the lore for EQoA as all other EQ games. In fact, EQoA's lore should carry more wieght as it is more up-to-date.</span><hr></blockquote><p>As an EQ1 Elitist, I disagree.  EQoA wasn't made to give players more insight into the world of Norrath; it was made so that Sony could sap monthly fees from console people.  I'm sure that they did some work trying to flesh out the lore between the two games, and they did a truly horrendous job at it.</p><p>For me personally, EQ1 is Gospel and EQoA never happened, that's the way I look at the world of Norrath.  My characters come from EQ1, they are going to use its lore for background purposes.  I can understand the position EQoA people are in; their game is hardly recognized in EQ2 and some of us on the lore forum are rather hostile to their game.  If I were in that position I would probably fight just as hard for the vindication of EQoA, and would be upset by EQ1 vets who think they own this game and get to decide what is and isn't worth being considered Canon, and would demonize them as such.</p><p>Then there's my position, which is probably the same as some of the other EQ1ers on this forum.  When I stumble upon a thread about some random EQoA topic, like Telethin or Lycanthropy or vampire hunters chasing after Mistmoore and that sort of stuff, I tend to say to myself, "what the hell is this crap?" and stop reading.  Perhaps it's because I'm getting the information second-hand from players, perhaps it's because I'm naturally hostile to the game, but I find a lot of this EQoA lore to be incoherent, bland, and very silly.  To actually incorporate it into my view of Norrath would make the world of Norrath less interesting, so I choose not to.  Then there are the continuity problems presented by EQoA (wait, you're telling me that some of the Elves in EQ1 would have been alive when Takish'Hiz was destroyed?  So then there are Elddar Elves on Faydwer? **boggle**   **steam shooting out of ears**  **head explodes**)</p><p>That's just me, but I think that explains my own personal disdain for your guys' game and my tendency to ignore it in any way possible. </p><p>Message Edited by troodon311 on <span class="date_text">02-26-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:09 AM</span></p>

[Ama]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>troodon311 wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>teddyboy420 wrote:<span>Also, don't mind Cush, for whatever reason she likes to write off EQoA's lore as if it just never happened. EQoA's lore IS canon, like it or not. Yes it may contridict some things from EQLive, but they had the same team of lore writers write the lore for EQoA as all other EQ games. In fact, EQoA's lore should carry more wieght as it is more up-to-date.</span><hr></blockquote><p>As an EQ1 Elitist, I disagree.  EQoA wasn't made to give players more insight into the world of Norrath; it was made so that Sony could sap monthly fees from console people.  I'm sure that they did some work trying to flesh out the lore between the two games, and they did a truly horrendous job at it.</p><p>For me personally, EQ1 is Gospel and EQoA never happened, that's the way I look at the world of Norrath.  My characters come from EQ1, they are going to use its lore for background purposes.  I can understand the position EQoA people are in; their game is hardly recognized in EQ2 and some of us on the lore forum are rather hostile to their game.  If I were in that position I would probably fight just as hard for the vindication of EQoA, and would be upset by EQ1 vets who think they own this game and get to decide what is and isn't worth being considered Canon, and would demonize them as such.</p><p>Then there's my position, which is probably the same as some of the other EQ1ers on this forum.  When I stumble upon a thread about some random EQoA topic, like Telethin or Lycanthropy or vampire hunters chasing after Mistmoore and that sort of stuff, I tend to say to myself, "what the hell is this crap?" and stop reading.  Perhaps it's because I'm getting the information second-hand from players, perhaps it's because I'm naturally hostile to the game, but I find a lot of this EQoA lore to be incoherent, bland, and very silly.  To actually incorporate it into my view of Norrath would make the world of Norrath less interesting, so I choose not to.  Then there are the continuity problems presented by EQoA (wait, you're telling me that some of the Elves in EQ1 would have been alive when Takish'Hiz was destroyed?  So then there are Elddar Elves on Faydwer? **boggle**   **steam shooting out of ears**  **head explodes**)</p><p>That's just me, but I think that explains my own personal disdain for your guys' game and my tendency to ignore it in any way possible. </p><p>Message Edited by troodon311 on <span class="date_text">02-26-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:09 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>Thats kewl and I understand where you are coming from troodon311.  It is possible that EQOA was thrown together with loose bits of lore from EQ1 to make it considered an EQ series game.  However there is 1 fact that sticks in my mind from when I played it that does make some bit of since.  That fact *75% sure* is that EQOA doesn't take place on seperate tracks or time lines but that it takes place 500 years before EQ1 itself.  That little fact can leave alot of grey area and you could say what did and did not happen.  I'm just trying to get a sense of the history, lore and facts from EQOA, to EQ1, then to the split off of EQII from EQ1.  I know the die hard EQ1 history/lore veterans may look at us EQOA people with contempt because we have a half hashed story but still it is a story none the less.  But like I said this isn't just about EQOA but about Kingdom of Sky and what new possibilities lore wise it brings with it.   I just think Island of Dread maybe one of them. </p><p>You could also state the beast lords are in the kingdom of sky in a secluded area.  I read one post saying about how they are missing since they were transported to luclin and luclin was destroyed.   You could say before the moon was destroyed they were transported to an area of the kingdom of sky so that they could flurish without hardship living amongst themselves. </p>

[Rounl]

<div>the beastlords were stuck in a different timeline and are now playing hopsotch with Firiona Vie in Sebilis while watching re-runs of All in the Family.</div><div> </div><div>Discuss.</div>

[teddyboy4]

<span><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>teddyboy420 wrote:<span>Also, don't mind Cush, for whatever reason she likes to write off EQoA's lore as if it just never happened. EQoA's lore IS canon, like it or not. Yes it may contridict some things from EQLive, but they had the same team of lore writers write the lore for EQoA as all other EQ games. In fact, EQoA's lore should carry more wieght as it is more up-to-date.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Wow.</p><p>Just... wow.</p><p> </p><p>I ask a simple question and here you go putting words in my mouth.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>And just because EQOA came out after EQlive, that doesn't make it more "Up to date", because it still takes place 500 years in the past, which makes EQlive stlll more "Up to date" since it technically takes place later in the timeline.</p><p> </p><p>But this is a discussion for another thread.</p><p> </p><p>Did I ever once say that Isle of Dread should NOT be in EQ2 in my above post?</p><p>Message Edited by Cusashorn on <span class="date_text">02-25-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:56 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Sorry Cushashorn, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth, I've just seen you put down EQoA lore before and kind of assumed that's what you were doing here. I apologize....You're right, this is a dicussion for another thread, but I think it high time that we all had this discussion...</span><div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>teddyboy420 wrote:<span><blockquote> </blockquote>Sorry Cushashorn, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth, I've just seen you put down EQoA lore before and kind of assumed that's what you were doing here. I apologize....You're right, this is a dicussion for another thread, but I think it high time that we all had this discussion...</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>No no. Its a dead horse. whipping it further isn't going to help.

[Pyrrhx]

<div></div><p>So far off topic... Oh well, here's to kickin' a dead horse!</p><p>The number #1 culprit between EQ-EQOA lore wise has nothing to do with continuity issues.  It is a simple matter of EQoA utilizing areas identified on that dandy EQ paper map, that never made it into EQlive.  **i.e.  Perhaps if EQlive actually had Winter's Deep within a zone, the EQlive vets would surely have stumbled across the remnants of some old elven villages..**the elven cities of Tethelin/Fayspires were on the shores of Winter's Deep, a landmark location on the original EQ map that was never zoned**</p><p>Anyhoo, let's bring this back to topic.  IoD wouldn't be IoD without the Graumord villagers.</p>

[dalaorn_eq2]

<span><span><blockquote><hr>troodon311 wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>Then there's my position, which is probably the same as some of the other EQ1ers on this forum.  When I stumble upon a thread about some random EQoA topic, like Telethin or Lycanthropy or vampire hunters chasing after Mistmoore and that sort of stuff, I tend to say to myself, "what the hell is this crap?" and stop reading.  Perhaps it's because I'm getting the information second-hand from players, perhaps it's because I'm naturally hostile to the game, but I find a lot of this EQoA lore to be incoherent, bland, and very silly.</p><hr></blockquote></span>Just out of morbid curiosity: are elves living in temporary outposts, were-creatures spreading their plague, and vampire hunters pursuing a uh... a vampire... as silly and incoherent as the idea of high elf defiler shamans and troll paladins running around Norrath?</span><div></div>

[IlionSturmli]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>troodon311 wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote>(wait, you're telling me that some of the Elves in EQ1 would have been alive when Takish'Hiz was destroyed?  So then there are Elddar Elves on Faydwer? **boggle**   **steam shooting out of ears**  **head explodes**)</blockquote><p>That's just me, but I think that explains my own personal disdain for your guys' game and my tendency to ignore it in any way possible. </p><p>Message Edited by troodon311 on <span class="date_text">02-26-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:09 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>There are even some Elves in EQLive that are telling you that the remember the times of Takish'Hiz.</p>

[Ama]

<div>Guys can we kinda get back to the topic of what possibilities Kingdom of Sky brings lore wise?  This debate of EQ lore is very deeply rooted and to me deserves another thread so i'll go ahead and make it.   Created this thread as a think tank of what we could see in KoS <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> .</div>

[troodon311]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>dalaorn_eq2 wrote:<span><span></span>Just out of morbid curiosity: are elves living in temporary outposts, were-creatures spreading their plague, and vampire hunters pursuing a uh... a vampire... as silly and incoherent as the idea of high elf defiler shamans and troll paladins running around Norrath?</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Sorry, bud.  It's not my fault I find EQoA stories to be weak.  Weaker than ARAC?  You bet.  ARAC makes sense in the scenario we've been presented in EQ2.  In an environment where the world has gone to hell in a handbasket and the races have to a very large degree lost much of their cultural heritage the idea that some might go off and do things previously unheard of is not just reasonable, it's inevitable.</p><blockquote dir="ltr"><p></p><hr>IlionStrumlied wrote:<p>There are even some Elves in EQLive that are telling you that the remember the times of Takish'Hiz.</p><hr></blockquote><p>The only elves in EQ1 that talk about Takish'Hiz that I found in my 5 years of playing that game are those involved in the Takish'Hiz LDON missions.  They were <em>not</em> alive when the city was still intact and talk about what they've learned by going in there and exploring; not what their dad told them about his old home.</p>

[dalaorn_eq2]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>troodon311 wrote:<div></div><p>The only elves in EQ1 that talk about Takish'Hiz that I found in my 5 years of playing that game are those involved in the Takish'Hiz LDON missions.  They were <em>not</em> alive when the city was still intact and talk about what they've learned by going in there and exploring; not what their dad told them about his old home.</p><hr></blockquote>Just keep in mind that "if I haven't heard about it, then it didn't happen" is a flimsy logical pitfall in <i>any</i> argument.  It's as if saying the only things that EVER happened in Tolkien's Middle Earth, were those people and places and events he explicitly wrote about and nothing else.  Sure, these places don't really exist, but part of coming up with a vast, believable, and deep fictional universe is the idea that there's likely more to said universe than can fit in any finite amount of spoken lore and written legend.  Norrath is no exception, and EQOA is just a little bit more lore and legend that just happens to detail events never mentioned by NPCs in EQ1 but indeed occured.  Ignoring and tossing out those events over the fact that you dislike the game is akin to hopping into a time machine to the Paleolithic era with your religious fundamentalist grandmother and then her telling you the dinosaur in front of you doesn't exist because the Bible never mentioned them.As lazy as Sony has been with EQOA I still have seen nothing in the game that blatantly contradicts anything in EQ1 or EQ2 that can't be thinned out by reading between the lines across all three games.</span><div></div>

[Pyrrhx]

<div></div><p>Going to address a couple of things... <font size="1">So far off topic lol</font>...</p><p><font size="3">1)  Where is the assumption coming from that some EQlive elves may have lived in Takish Hiz?  Is this assumption due to the time relation of EQLive to EQOA?  Is it because the city was visible above ground in EQOA?  </font></p><p><font size="3">    By all accounts, during the time period of EQOA (500yr prior to EQlive)  Takish Hiz was already a half buried ruins.  The only elves there were Elves (probably from the Proudpine Outpost) competing with the Tier'dal to reclaim artifacts and treasure.  The only other life existing there was undead, golems, and some planar type creatures.  Obviously, no-elves were living in Takish Hiz during that period in time.. and given that there were no visible attempts at restoration, the city was more than half-buried, and considerate errosion damage was evident among all the buildings you could easily say that Takish Hiz had been in ruins for at least 150 years already...  So.. sure.. it could be plausible that the oldest elves in EQlive could have been to Takish Hiz, then again they would have been young elves at that period of time... further...elves were already living in different lifestyles (wood/high) at the time that they were still considered eldaar so that's a moot point.</font></p><p><font size="3">2)      <a target="_blank" href="http://eq.ogaming.com/info/Editorials~5.php">http://eq.ogaming.com/info/Editorials~5.php</a></font></p><p><font size="3">    I found this site interesting.  Basically the writer fuming over the zones(land areas) that were never put into EQlive, but were written all over the paper maps (and still are, just checked my EQ Evolution map).  If you were an EQOA player, you may notice that areas listed under Antonica & Odus correspond to areas that do exist in EQOA, like .. winter's deep (Teth/Fayspire lake), Unkempt woods... **from the sounds of the list, it seems like the Antonican continent was pretty small in EQlive..</font></p><p><font size="3">   Point being:  There were so many gaps left in EQlive, that it only made sense that the vacuum of lost lore (and geography) be filled, and so they attempted with EQOA.</font></p><p><font size="3">3)    As for weak lore.. While you may consider some of the lore/stories behind EQOA silly, that is a point of perspective most likely brought about by most of us ol' EQOA'ers inability to rehash in full the quest scripts.  Honestly when i read some of the old EQlive lore, i can't help but think that it's kinda dull...  The difference?  You experienced you're lore.. I experienced mine..  there's our conundrum.    </font></p><p> </p><p><font size="3"></font> </p>

[teddyboy4]

<span><blockquote><hr>Pyrrhx wrote:<div></div><p>Going to address a couple of things... <font size="1">So far off topic lol</font>...</p><p><font size="3">1)  Where is the assumption coming from that some EQlive elves may have lived in Takish Hiz?  Is this assumption due to the time relation of EQLive to EQOA?  Is it because the city was visible above ground in EQOA?  </font></p><p><font size="3">    By all accounts, during the time period of EQOA (500yr prior to EQlive)  Takish Hiz was already a half buried ruins.  The only elves there were Elves (probably from the Proudpine Outpost) competing with the Tier'dal to reclaim artifacts and treasure.  The only other life existing there was undead, golems, and some planar type creatures.  Obviously, no-elves were living in Takish Hiz during that period in time.. and given that there were no visible attempts at restoration, the city was more than half-buried, and considerate errosion damage was evident among all the buildings you could easily say that Takish Hiz had been in ruins for at least 150 years already...  So.. sure.. it could be plausible that the oldest elves in EQlive could have been to Takish Hiz, then again they would have been young elves at that period of time... further...elves were already living in different lifestyles (wood/high) at the time that they were still considered eldaar so that's a moot point.</font></p><p><font size="3">2)      <a href="http://eq.ogaming.com/info/Editorials%7E5.php" target="_blank">http://eq.ogaming.com/info/Editorials~5.php</a></font></p><p><font size="3">    I found this site interesting.  Basically the writer fuming over the zones(land areas) that were never put into EQlive, but were written all over the paper maps (and still are, just checked my EQ Evolution map).  If you were an EQOA player, you may notice that areas listed under Antonica & Odus correspond to areas that do exist in EQOA, like .. winter's deep (Teth/Fayspire lake), Unkempt woods... **from the sounds of the list, it seems like the Antonican continent was pretty small in EQlive..</font></p><p><font size="3">   Point being:  There were so many gaps left in EQlive, that it only made sense that the vacuum of lost lore (and geography) be filled, and so they attempted with EQOA.</font></p><p><font size="3">3)    As for weak lore.. While you may consider some of the lore/stories behind EQOA silly, that is a point of perspective most likely brought about by most of us ol' EQOA'ers inability to rehash in full the quest scripts.  Honestly when i read some of the old EQlive lore, i can't help but think that it's kinda dull...  The difference?  You experienced you're lore.. I experienced mine..  there's our conundrum.    </font></p><p> </p><p><font size="3"></font> </p><hr></blockquote>Oh wow, you beat me to it it seems. I posted a link to this editorial and brought up these same points about two minutes ago in the thread made for this discussion. I hadn't seen your comments here yet, but since I am seeing them now I have to say I agree totally.Cush, while this may be an old, old horse on it's last leg, it certainly isn't dead, and probably never will be dead until we get some kind of official word, recognition, and possible reconcilliation from a Dev (wink, wink, nudge, nudge).Ok, enough hijacking this thread, lets bring this discussion to thread made for this specific discussion <a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=8326">here.</a></span><div></div>