Vah Shir

[vikingthug]

<div><strong><font color="#66ff00">Ok, they brought back those stinking frogs, yeah for the flie eaters.. I want my Vah Shir back. Not that cast off wanna be kerran.  Dont tell me that just because the moon blew, all the Vah Shir were whiped out!  Im sure that they are all still alive and well hurteling through the cosmos on theyre chunk of moon rock.  Anyone know of any lore concerning them now?  Id really like them to come back.  Add to that, where did all the Beast Masters class go?  </font></strong></div>

[KniteShayd]

<div></div><p>Because the beastlord class masters were on luclin, we don't know if any have survived and fled to other contenants.</p><p>the Vah'Shir were a kerran tribe who were transported to the moon.  some speculate that luclin, with her admiration/fascination for endangered creatures transported them to luclin from Odus when they became endangered.  with the destruction of luclin, the Vah'Shir tribe/species vanished.  There are now only the original kerrans that exist on norrath, so far that we know of.  there may be travelers from the Vah'Shir later on in more expasnions, but until they are found, we know that they are extinct.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<div></div><div>You are the Vah Shir. You'd still be a puny five foot tall house cat if the Vah Shir adventurers who ended up getting stuck on Norrath when teleportation ceased to exist didn't mate with the native Kerrans. Just because you have to live by thier society and racial name doesn't mean you arn't.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Oh, and, the Vah Shir weren't teleported by Luclin herself who was trying to preserve endanged species..</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>The Vah Shir were teleported by a laser as a freak result of the War of the Heretics on Odus. They weren't placed there on purpose.</div><p>Message Edited by Cusashorn on <span class="date_text">02-22-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:14 PM</span></p>

[TaleraRis]

The Vah Shir rode The Hole to Luclin I believe is the way the lore went <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<div>No no, the Hole is what was created after the laser teleported them to Luclin.</div>

[vikingthug]

<div><strong></strong></div><strong><font color="#66ff00">Reguardless, when its all said and done We want our Vah Shir back darnit!  We dont want some halfbreed wannabe kerren.  Honestly, they arent half the cat the Vah Shir were.  I would delete all my toons just to have my cat back.  They were big, very cool, made the perfect shaman, and noble all wrapped up on one neat package.  The kerran look like a cross between a beat up tomcat and a pug.  I hereby formally announce the Vah Shir Restoration League.  Now, whose bloody with me!</font></strong>

[thesilverf]

<div></div><p>Meh, who needs those pretentious cats.  Aren't the Tier'Dal, Iksar, and Frogloks enough for over inflated sense of worth?</p><p>Besides if the did survive they probably look a lot different....  think Erudite level changes....</p><p> </p><p><img src="http://www.goreydetails.net/images/items/jpeg1098596653.jpg"></p>

[vikingthug]

<div></div>Blasphemy!  Heretic I say!  I have a nice quaint wood pile with your name on it.!!!  Grrr.... lol...Made me laugh though...

[MysidiaDrakkenbane]

<div></div><div>Why could some of the Vah Shir have ported down to Norrath and made a small tribe somewhere because they didn't want to live on Luclin anymore? Perhaps maybe to visit some of their Kerran ancestors and get a better sense of their roots?</div><div> </div><div>And who's to say that Vah Shir didn't take Kerran wives or husbands and produce a hybrid species??</div><p>Message Edited by MysidiaClash on <span class="date_text">02-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:15 PM</span></p>

[teddyboy4]

<span><blockquote><hr>MysidiaClash wrote:<div></div><div>Why could some of the Vah Shir have ported down to Norrath and made a small tribe somewhere because they didn't want to live on Luclin anymore? Perhaps maybe to visit some of their Kerran ancestors and get a better sense of their roots?</div><div> </div><div>And who's to say that Vah Shir didn't take Kerran wives or husbands and produce a hybrid species??</div><p>Message Edited by MysidiaClash on <span class="date_text">02-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:15 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Actually, this is exactly what happened. Well, sorta....There were, of course, some Vah Shir down on Norrath at the time the Nexus was overrun by Rallos' and Solusek's forces. This in turn stranded them on Norrath with no way to reach thier kin back on Luclin, so they took the only reasonable course of action they could to ensure that the Vah Shir legacy continued. They went and reintegrated themselves with thier ancenstors, the Kerrans of Odus thus passing on the Vah Shir's increased size and strength, intelligence and traditions on to the Kerrans. So really, the Kerrans of modern Norrath ARE indeed, at least part, Vah Shir.</span><div></div>

[Rabid-Othmir]

I miss the good ol' Vah Shir. The appearance of EQ2's Kerra brings shame to the feline name.<div></div>

[teddyboy4]

<span><blockquote><hr>Creature963 wrote:I miss the good ol' Vah Shir. The appearance of EQ2's Kerra brings shame to the feline name.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Why is that? The Kerrans of EQ2 actually resemble the Vah Shir much more then they did the Kerrans of EQ. The Kerrans of EQ were much shorter in stature and not as muscular, while the Vah Shir more closely resemble what we have today.When the Vah Shir were stranded on Norrath they went an reintegrated themselves with thier ancestral tribes, thus passing on most of the evolution they had undergone on Luclin. As time passed more and more of the Vah Shir blood (and thus thier traits) were spread throughout the Kerran tribes leading up to larger, smarter Kerrans we know today.Really, the Vah Shir aren't gone. The only thing that is gone is thier city on Luclin, much of thier heritage and traditions were probably passed on with thier genetics to the Kerrans.</span><div></div>

[vikingthug]

I say to all my Vah Shir brothers and sisters out there... Accept no pug hybrid substitutes.  No diluting of the gene pool for me thankyou very much!  I hope, no, I pray that somewhere out there, a colony of untainted Vah Shir still exist and thrive, waiting for some kind hearted, generous, lovable, did I mention kind hearted?? (This is a blatent hint by the way) Dev out there who would reintroduce our beloved Cats back into the real world.  The time to rise up and proclaim ourselves!  Step away from the catnip, spurn the litterbox, and march together and united toward a better tomarrow for all our Vah Shir brothers and sisters.. Disclaimer.  This message is brought to you by the Vah Shir Restoration League.<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>vikingthug wrote:<div><strong></strong></div><strong><font color="#66ff00">Reguardless, when its all said and done We want our Vah Shir back darnit!  We dont want some halfbreed wannabe kerren.  Honestly, they arent half the cat the Vah Shir were. </font></strong><hr></blockquote>Which is why you Vah Shir mated with them and made thier offspring the best of both worlds and more.

[vikingthug]

<div></div>I would like to think there were more then just a handfull of Vah Shir left planetside when the moon went south so to speak.  I shudder to think that they would stoop to such levels as mating with kerren.  After all, If most of our race was whiped out, but there still were some females left, would you mate with a primate?   I hope not...

[Cusashorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>vikingthug wrote:<div></div>I would like to think there were more then just a handfull of Vah Shir left planetside when the moon went south so to speak.  I shudder to think that they would stoop to such levels as mating with kerren.  After all, If most of our race was whiped out, but there still were some females left, would you mate with a primate?   I hope not...<hr></blockquote>Vah Shir don't live long enough to survive 500 years. Furthermore, Thier own species still existed in the form of the Kerra. They had a home to go to and chose to use it. Just because they're a matriarchal society compaired to the Vah Shir's Patriarchal society doesn't mean anything. Just accept it that the Vah Shir as you know them will not return. They're extinct.

[Rabid-Othmir]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>teddyboy420 wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Creature963 wrote:I miss the good ol' Vah Shir. The appearance of EQ2's Kerra brings shame to the feline name.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Why is that? The Kerrans of EQ2 actually resemble the Vah Shir much more then they did the Kerrans of EQ. The Kerrans of EQ were much shorter in stature and not as muscular, while the Vah Shir more closely resemble what we have today.When the Vah Shir were stranded on Norrath they went an reintegrated themselves with thier ancestral tribes, thus passing on most of the evolution they had undergone on Luclin. As time passed more and more of the Vah Shir blood (and thus thier traits) were spread throughout the Kerran tribes leading up to larger, smarter Kerrans we know today.Really, the Vah Shir aren't gone. The only thing that is gone is thier city on Luclin, much of thier heritage and traditions were probably passed on with thier genetics to the Kerrans.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>http://www.foxeye-art.com/kerra.phpThe Vah Shir had a rather feline appearance (at least face-wise), yet these Kerra have only a vague resemblance to felines.</span></div><p>Message Edited by Creature963 on <span class="date_text">02-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:31 PM</span></p>

[vikingthug]

Hopefully the devs arent as close minded about the Vah Shir as you are Cusashorn.  And thankfully there are those of us who still love the idea of the true Vah Shir, not this mutt version your so intent on us accepting.<div></div>

[Zabjade]

<div>My pet theory: When luclin blew up, Shar Vahl (which had been hurtled through space before, and likey has safeguards in place.) was hurtled back to Norrath, it now hovers over "The Hole" now a whirlpool over on Odus.</div><div> </div><div>I personally like the irony.</div>

[Cusashorn]

<div>Well I don't know what else to say. There's lore all over the game that proves otherwise that the Vah Shir are gone.</div>

[teddyboy4]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>vikingthug wrote:Hopefully the devs arent as close minded about the Vah Shir as you are Cusashorn.  And thankfully there are those of us who still love the idea of the true Vah Shir, not this mutt version your so intent on us accepting.<div></div><hr></blockquote>While in many cases I disagree with Cush's view on things, in this at least she's keeping an open mind <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.The Vah Shir are NOT gone, they passed along all of the evolutionary and cultural progress they had made to the tribes and people that they were once a part of. The Kerrans we have now are descendants of the Vah Shir that were on Norrath at the time of the Shattering. The Vah Shir ARE Kerrans anyway, so calling them mutts is just silly. This situation isn't like the Human-Erudite evolution, yes the Vah Shir evolved a bit on Luclin. They simply became stronger and smarter and then when the refugees from Luclins destruction returned to the Kerran tribes on Norrath, they passed all of this along to them.The bottom line is that the Kerrans we play as ARE Vah Shir in everything except name.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by teddyboy420 on <span class="date_text">02-26-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:28 PM</span></p>

[vikingthug]

There are pleanty of us out there who wont accept this rhetoric.  Vah Shir are not Kerran, and I stand by my statement there must have been enough Vah Shir left planet side, that they wouldnt have had to stoop to mating with what amount to primates compared to them.  They Kerren dont resemble Vah Shir unless you count the fact they have tails, fur, and walk upright.  To say anything else, would be doing them a grave disservice.  I think the fact remains, that people are split on the topic.  And untill a dev, or Big Blue comes out and says, "THis is how its going to be." I wont give up hope that one day we may get a chance to once again play what some of us have allways conscidered to be our favorite race. To those of you who like the Kerran, Im not taking anything away from you.  Im just a Vah Shir Loyalist through and through.<div></div>

[Zabjade]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div>Well I don't know what else to say. There's lore all over the game that proves otherwise that the Vah Shir are gone.</div><hr></blockquote><font color="#66cc00" face="Comic Sans MS" size="2">All it says is that Luclin went Boom wether the Vah Shir survived or not can be read <a href="http://lorenorrath.free.fr/read.php?link=race_kerra" target="_blank">here</a>. and the fate of Shar Vahl is unknown. it obviously survived one trip through space thanks to the Kerran affinity with the wind. I think it could survive another.</font><p>Message Edited by Zabjade on <span class="date_text">02-26-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:25 AM</span></p>

[Sedden]

<div>Th Vah Shir aren't gone truely. Everquest2.com even says that many VahShir returned to norrath and breeding a strong better kerra race with there ancestors. Which why the kerran aren't short non-muscular cat people in EQ2 and have more of a Vah Shir body structure</div>

[RiverAssassin]

What I want to know is what the heck is the difference between the two? The Kerra are much less muscular than the Vah`Shir, that much I can tell, but what else?

[Cusashorn]

<div>The Kerrans in EQlive were scrawny. They stood about 5 feet tall, didn't have very much body mass to them. They were fishers and farmers. Tribalistic in community. They didn't need to concern themselves too much with defending thier secluded village, although they did have thier problems with the Erudites.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>The Vah Shir were preditors. Large hunting cats. Lynx, Tigers, Lions, Cougars. They stood 7 feet tall with more than enough muscle and body mass to intimidate an opponent.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>When teleportation back to Luclin was cut off, the Vah Shir who were on Norrath at the time decided to move on with thier lives. They were genetically compatible with the Kerrans, and decided to become a part of thier culture since they had nowhere else to go. I mean it's not like you can easily just go find every last Vah Shir across Norrath and ask them to come build a new city.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>So they mated with the Kerrans and gave birth to offspring, and live continued on. The genetics of the Vah Shir fused with the Kerrans, making them grow taller and stronger as time went by. Making them closer in appearance to the Vah Shir. But since you can't manipulate genetics, the Kerrans ended up getting some traits as well in thier offspring. They shared both the strengths and weaknesses of both.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>And the Kerrans we have now are the end result.</div>

[vikingthug]

So, if there were only a few humans left, yet you knew there were still female humans, instead you would rather run around and mate with chimpanzes or Apes?  Thats a tall stretch, the Vah Shir stooping to that level and hoping that they would be geneticaly compatable with the Kerrans.  I will steadfast cling to my belief that somewhere, out there, perhaps among the stars, the Vah Shir still exist, true, and glorious in all theyre feline magnificence... That or untill a dev flat out states that they will never come back.  After all, this is fantasy, and we can all dream.<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<div>Humans and Apes arn't genetically compatible though. That's just the thing. Vah Shir and Kerrans are.</div>

[SisterTheresa]

<div></div><p>If I may ...</p><p>It seems that the issue here is the graphical look of the Kerra is more in question than the history.</p><p>For another glimpse into the lore of the Kerra/Vah Shir, may I suggest taking a trip to your local Mage Tower and pick up the History of the Kerra?</p><p>Interesting lore.  I would post it here, but I don't want to say any part wrong, and it may just surprise you.</p>

[vikingthug]

My point is this, obviously there were still male and female Vah Shir running around.  What Vah Shir in his right mind would ever stoop to such levels as to actually contemplate mating with a Kerra?  For those of us who are stout and devout lovers of the Vah Shir would never dream of it.  We hold fast to the belief that one day we will get a chance to play our most loved class once again.<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<div>You're starting to sound like a broken record at this point, no offense.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Nastharl]

<div></div>Edit for idiocy.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Nastharl on <span class="date_text">03-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:18 AM</span></p>

[vikingthug]

No offense taken, but kettle meet pot.  I dont agree with your point and you dont agree with mine.  I dont plan on giving in any time soon. <div></div>

[DreamerClou]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>vikingthug wrote:My point is this, obviously there were still male and female Vah Shir running around.  What Vah Shir in his right mind would ever stoop to such levels as to actually contemplate mating with a Kerra?  For those of us who are stout and devout lovers of the Vah Shir would never dream of it.  We hold fast to the belief that one day we will get a chance to play our most loved class once again.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p> </p><p>In my opinion it would be just like a Erudite mating with a human.  Or it would be like a human mating with a barbarian...</p>

[Cusashorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>DreamerCloud9 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>vikingthug wrote:My point is this, obviously there were still male and female Vah Shir running around.  What Vah Shir in his right mind would ever stoop to such levels as to actually contemplate mating with a Kerra?  For those of us who are stout and devout lovers of the Vah Shir would never dream of it.  We hold fast to the belief that one day we will get a chance to play our most loved class once again.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p> </p><p>In my opinion it would be just like a Erudite mating with a human.  Or it would be like a human mating with a barbarian...</p><hr></blockquote>Which, BTW, has never happened. There's never any record of such an offspring ever existing.

[Pyrrhx]

<div></div>If there were male and female Vah Shir running around, there would need to be a fairly considerable amount running around lest they begin to share the same parentage...  Would you rather that the few Vah Shir had mated solely with each other, eventually resulting in an defunct inbred race?

[vikingthug]

<div>Were not talking about one or two running around, and since there isnt anything written in stone we cant say for sure how many survived, but if you look at EQ1 there was probably a very substantial number planet side when the moon took a vacation.  Either way none of this is the point what so ever.   The real issue here is that many of us would like our Vah Shir to be a playable race.  The Froglock were brought back, so its not like were asking for a miracle here.  I dont know why sony descided to take away, not only a great race but also the BM class, but they did.  I really do not understand why people find it so difficult to understand that some of us will not accept the Kerran as a substitute for the Vah Shir.  Last but not least, its a magical world where nearly anything could happen.  Hell, the Gnomes and goblins could get togethor and build a time machine to go back and rescue the Vah Shir population, or make a magical portal to do the same.  Trying to equate this with real life scenarios wont fit.  You can quote EQ lore till your blue in the face, but if the Devs want to do something they can and will.  And since blue hasnt stepped in and said definatlively that they wont ever be back, then we can hope.</div>

[Brannwyn]

You keep saying that "They brought back Frogloks" you seem to forget that they were a race that was promised at launch. A race that had to be unlocked to play. So there was really nothing to add. Though they did have to fix the quest line so it could actually be completed, but that was the case with lots of end game stuff promised at launch.I agree that the Kerran models are quite un-cat like in the face. I agree that I like the looks of the original Vah Shir models from EQI. I think you will be quite disappointed if they ever allow us back on the moon with what they do the VahShir. I think you would find that they would have the same flat faced models that the Kerran's have. I think that the art dept decided to go with a more "human" like face that was easier to make look different with the facial sliders, than a truely cat face could. Which is why we are stuck with our Flat faced Kerrans.  I was actually kind of hopeful that SOGA would include better Kerran models, of course they didn't update those models.BTW I wouldn't discount what love is capable of. I mean there is a bit in the lore of a Teir'dal girl with her human lover, just before the luclin exploded. Now most people would say that it would be impossible for Teir'dal to love anyone, let alone a human who is worth as much as cattle to a Teir'dal. So it wouldn't be too far out of the question for Vah Shir males and females to find themselves in love with a peaceful kerran. You assume an attitude about the Vah Shir that I don't believe they would have toward the Kerran. Vah Shir know that they are the decendents of the Kerren, they probably see themselves as a lost tribe of Kerrans. So again getting together with a Kerran would be quite ok.Also, just because you don't officially know of any Human-Barbarian or Human-Erudite half breeds, don't mean they don't or couldn't exist. I would imagine that the offspring of such a cross would resemble one or the other. Though I don't beleive that Human-Erudite crosses are possible anymore with the latest evolution of the Erudite species. Of course that is just my opinion YMMVBrannwyn<div></div>

[imbitten]

<div></div>Everyone puts this noble they decided to go mate with the keran outlook. phssst, they're cats, keran female was in heat a vah shir male was standing downwind, nuff said.

[vikingthug]

<div>    Brought back or promised is a mute point as far as Im conscerned.  Eq1 Fans who loved the Frogs, got the frogs along with every other race with the notable exception of the Vah Shir.  Its obvious that they went for the more human looking Kerran as compared to the true feline like look of the Vah Shir, so I wont dispute that at all.  Since we cannot say with any certainty how the Vah Shir reacted to the whole "oh great,this is what we get to mate with", I can only post my personal reaction which Im hopefull isnt shared by myself alone.  To say Im disapointed is an understatement.  I never posted that other races couldnt intermingle, I have tried to keep my eye on the ball so to speak.  To be honest if an expansion was released and we finally saw what has become of the Vah Shir and they suddenly all look like kerrans, I will probably cancel my account that same day.  As I said in the beginning, my first, and most loved Charactor was Gustov Longshanks, Shaman... A true Vah Shir.  Im sure that others feel as strongly about theyre Kerrans as well, and I wont take anything from them. </div>

[Cusashorn]

<div></div><div>In regards to the "Human-ish" look that the Kerrans have..</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Keep in mind that they are not Humanoid Cats. They are Cat-LIKE Humanoids.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Whats the difference?</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>The difference is that just because their faces don't have the curves or elongations of the nose, jaws, ears, or anything else that makes them look *EXACTLY like a Lion, Tiger, Bobcat, whatever... That doesn't mean they don't have a cat-like appearance.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Thats evolution for you. They're not suppose to be bi-pedal upright-walking Tigers and Lions. They're suppose to be a humanoid creature who you can visually see take on a cat-like appearance.</div>

[Brannwyn]

I don't find that I don't care for the way Kerran look. They look too human and not enough like a cat. I miss the real Cat look of the Vah Shir. Though the models that reallly peeved me off was that travesty that is the Barbarian woman. I mean my Barbarian women went from a Strong, but VERY feminine body and face in EQI, to this mass of muscle and square face that looks like an ugly manish drag queen. The totally crappy looking models for Kerran and Barbarian Woman is why I still won't play either one in EQ2! I just hate how they look. Though I do say that SOGA made Barbarians Women look feminine, though not as much as I would like.Unfortunatly this obviously has LOW priority for SoE. I mean they can't even get crafting recipies ready for a launch. SOGA was what they gave us when we wanted better looking hairstyles and nicer looking skin tones. EQII seems to be on a 'Do it for cheap or not at all" tack which is kind of distressing.Good luck on your Vah Shir crusade. Though I think you are tilting at windmills....Brannwyn<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Brannwyn wrote:I don't find that I don't care for the way Kerran look. They look too human and not enough like a cat. I miss the real Cat look of the Vah Shir. Though the models that reallly peeved me off was that travesty that is the Barbarian woman. I mean my Barbarian women went from a Strong, but VERY feminine body and face in EQI, to this mass of muscle and square face that looks like an ugly manish drag queen. The totally crappy looking models for Kerran and Barbarian Woman is why I still won't play either one in EQ2! I just hate how they look. Though I do say that SOGA made Barbarians Women look feminine, though not as much as I would like.Unfortunatly this obviously has LOW priority for SoE. I mean they can't even get crafting recipies ready for a launch. SOGA was what they gave us when we wanted better looking hairstyles and nicer looking skin tones. EQII seems to be on a 'Do it for cheap or not at all" tack which is kind of distressing.Good luck on your Vah Shir crusade. Though I think you are tilting at windmills....Brannwyn<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>The SOGA models were developed by the SOGA company in Korea. They were only designed to appeal more to the Asian market, as the models matched thier culture better than the models that Sony developed.</p><p> </p><p>Sony has nothing to do with the design or modification of the SOGA models, and SOGA decided that the monster races, the Kerrans, Ratonga, Frogloks, Iksar, and Trolls, didn't need to be altered. The SOGA models weren't designed as a graphical upgrade for the current models. They're just alternate models designed for a different culture.</p>

[Brannwyn]

Actually I know that, but the didn't really HAVE to include the SOGA models with the North American version of the game. I seem to remember it was because they wanted to give us more model choices, a different look on the humanoid races. If people hadn't been complaining about the original models, I doubt that Sony would have bothered with SOGA for North America. Unless there was some other reason that it made economic sense for them to do so (ie like making it easier to maintain the codebases with both models implemented, or something to do with new equipment skins). I actually find that I like the old models better than the SOGA models with a couple of exceptions, I like the Barbarians better in SOGA and I kind of like the Teir'Dal models more, but am torn over it. I really hate that the SOGA models have LESS customizability than the original No.Am. models. Also, I can't make any of the SOGA models smile, outside of /mood happy and that stinks.But, again I wouldn't hold my breath for the Vah Shir coming back as a playable race. We have Kerrans and they fill the role of 'Catmen" quite well. It would be truly silly to have 2 kind of Catpeople playable. We would be more likely to be able to play a flightlesss Aviak than ever be able to play Vah Shir. (I say flightless because PCs being able to fly brings it's own set of unique issues that I am sure that SOE doesn't want to deal with in all of the zones.Yeah there's a chance that some of the Vah Shir somehow rode out the moon exploding and are somehow still in Shar Vahl waiting for someone to discover them. Who knows, the seas can still be a bit scary to sail on, which has to be the real "lore" reason that we haven't found Faedwyr, Kunark, or Velious. I would expect that the sailors are sticking close to the landmasses they "know" and not going far out and exploring much. Though if old Ebik Wobblecog's (IOR Gnome NPC) kin get that Submarine working again, we might have an interesting ride to some new places. I had hopes when he wasn't on the isle, but it seems that the Wobblecog ship still can't help but lose it's gears all over the place!Brannwyn <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Cusashorn]

<div>The SOGA models weren't released with the game though. they were given to us only half a year ago.</div>

[Brannwyn]

Yes I am quite aware that the SOGA models didn't come till fairly recently like around 5 mths ago IIRC. I have been playing off and on since launch.Brannwyn

[IlionSturmli]

<div>Please correct me if I am wrong but I think the Kerran are not realy the ancestors of the Vah Shir, they are more like a different Tribe.</div><div> </div><div>I remember a story from EQ1 where three tribes where mentioned the Vah Kerran, the Vah Shir and another one.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Jebaris]

<div></div><div> </div><div>I think the lore says the when the erudites tried to blast their Heretic Cousins off Odus they missed and sent some Kerrans (left) to Lucin where they eventually became the Vah Shir. Im not sure about different tribes but if that were true then it would be a matter of where/when the their appearance changed. The big difference for me is that the EQ1 Kerrans (left) still walked on their toes like cats do and the Vah Shir and Modern Kerrans use their heels as well. Since this trait is shared by Vah Shir and Modern Kerrans I would suspect that either Kerrans did a lot of evolving in the last 500 years or modern Kerrans are more Vah Shir than not.</div><div> </div><div><img src="http://www.bruhaus.com/kerrans.jpg"></div><p>Message Edited by Jebaris on <span class="date_text">03-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:22 AM</span></p>

[Jebaris]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>vikingthug wrote:<div><strong></strong></div><strong><font color="#66ff00">Honestly, they arent half the cat the Vah Shir were.  ....  </font></strong><hr></blockquote><p>I think the most noticible difference is with the gait. The Vah Shir seemed to bounce a little bit when they ran. Certainly a more catlike look and feel. If its true now I never noticed it.</p><p>Is it possible to maniplulate the facial features of the Kerran so they dont have short snouts?</p>

[Cusashorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Jebaris wrote:<div></div><div> </div><div>I think the lore says the when the erudites tried to blast their Heretic Cousins off Odus they missed and sent some Kerrans (left) to Lucin where they eventually became the Vah Shir. Im not sure about different tribes but if that were true then it would be a matter of where/when the their appearance changed. The big difference for me is that the EQ1 Kerrans (left) still walked on their toes like cats do and the Vah Shir and Modern Kerrans use their heels as well. Since this trait is shared by Vah Shir and Modern Kerrans I would suspect that either Kerrans did a lot of evolving in the last 500 years<font color="#ff0000"> or modern Kerrans are more Vah Shir than not.</font></div><div><font color="#ff0000"></font> </div><div><img src="http://www.bruhaus.com/kerrans.jpg"></div><p>Message Edited by Jebaris on <span class="date_text">03-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:22 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>That's basicly what I've been saying the whole time. Thanks for pointing out the visual distinguishes between the 3 though. very helpful.

[SilverclawII]

<p>Just going to put my two cents in...</p><p>As a former Khala Dun of EQ1, there have been some things I miss about the Vah Shir culture.</p><p>One thing was the unique appearance of Vah Shir clothing and armor.  Vah Shir had some things more in common with their quadreped cousins than just their heads and fur.  They had claws on both their hands and feet, so most of their gloves and boots were open at the fingers and toes (Anyone else notice that today's Kerra have human-shaped feet?).</p><p>Can't remember if a proper tail-hole were cut in EQ1 days, with the necessary seams and sealings where the tail goes through, but it appears to be nonexistent today.</p><p>Some helmets and hats are fit for Kerra's ears and muzzle, though most are just enlarged or strecthed and skewed to fit over everything.  Thank goodness for the option to go bear-headed and still keep it protected.</p><p>Bottom line is, I miss being able to tell the difference between a Vah Shir and other large races, Barbarians come to mind, whether they're decked in plate armor from head-to-toe, or just running around in the rags they were found in.</p><p>I also miss the unique crafting from the culture, and being able to equip an actual smithy hammer that helped me as a blacksmith.  Even as I prefer EQ2's "keeping a watchful eye over the forge" to the "instant ingredients" of EQ1, I still miss the thought of being able to shape shadows and sounds into some really magical pieces.  Even if it did ran me broke and took me forever to gather the materials.</p><p>Anyone seen a good scimitar and round shield like the guards used?  I was able to find a matching set in EQ1 days for myself and enjoyed carrying them about, if just for cosmetics use.</p><p>And what happened to the fact that cats, and Vah Shir, always landed on thier feet?  Today's kerra seemed to have forgotten how to land softly from a large fall.</p><p>"The goods news about EverQuest 2 is that it's not EverQuest 1.  The bad news is that EverQuest 2 is not EverQuest 1." ~Prima Strategy Guide</p><p>Live on fellow children of Vah Kerrath.  Remember who you are.</p>

[SilverclawII]

<p><Sigh> Quad post...sorry! <img src="/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[SilverclawII]

<p><Repeated post deleted></p>

[SilverclawII]

<p><Repeated post deleted></p>

[SilverclawII]

<p><Repeated post deleted></p>

[Kitsune286]

Everyones made valid points, in my eyes. My only real addition to this is: EQ1 and EQ2 have thier own dev teams. Thus, they are going to look diffrent, cause diffrent people are doing the models.

[Zabjade]

<p>I still think that when Luclin blew that by some wierd Irony Shar Vahl ended up a floating city over the Hole in Odus.</p><p>The Hole is Probably a Whirlpool now or a DEEP underwater hole.</p>

[PsiaMeese]

I was inspired by a thread elsewhere to ask about this and didn't see an need to start another thread. Lorewise, I have been under the impression that whatever bonded relations developed between Kerran tribes and Vah Shir survivors would have transpired more recently.  As <b>The Shattering</b> (of Luclin) only occurred 15 years, roughly, prior to the Age of Destiny as portrayed at the start of EQ2. While <b>The Rending</b> of 500 years past certainly affected most of Norrath, I didn't think that long period had much to do with development of the current Kerra. I should add, having never played EQ1, that I was never clear on the lore related to the Portals to and from Luclin.  I have read that the portals were quiet for a long time, I never understood for just how long this was so?  I know that I read somewhere that these same portals were made available again. Were these portals available following <b>The Rending</b> over the 500 years leading up to<b> The Shattering</b>? Perhaps one of you, who are more familiar with the portal lore of EQ1, could help me to better understand what might have transpired?

[Cusashorn]

Eviscera@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>I was inspired by a thread elsewhere to ask about this and didn't see an need to start another thread. Lorewise, I have been under the impression that whatever bonded relations developed between Kerran tribes and Vah Shir survivors would have transpired more recently.  As <b>The Shattering</b> (of Luclin) only occurred 15 years, roughly, prior to the Age of Destiny as portrayed at the start of EQ2. While <b>The Rending</b> of 500 years past certainly affected most of Norrath, I didn't think that long period had much to do with development of the current Kerra. I should add, having never played EQ1, that I was never clear on the lore related to the Portals to and from Luclin.  I have read that the portals were quiet for a long time, I never understood for just how long this was so?  I know that I read somewhere that these same portals were made available again. Were these portals available following <b>The Rending</b> over the 500 years leading up to<b> The Shattering</b>? Perhaps one of you, who are more familiar with the portal lore of EQ1, could help me to better understand what might have transpired? </blockquote> Portals went silent within the first 50, probably 10 years.

[Mirander_1]

Here's how the major events more or less went down: Shattering of Luclin- roughly 15 years ago the Rending- probably about 100 years ago Invasion of the Nexus/Destruction of Teleportation- a little less than 200 years ago Begining of the Silence of the Gods- probably 498 years ago Awakening of the Sleeper- 500 years ago. Hope that helps put things in perspective <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[initoci]

<p>Kerafyrm <img src="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/pics/kerafyrm.jpg" border="0"> </p><p>But what is the backstory on this....since we know that the Kerra are now cross race cats.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Mirander_1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's how the major events more or less went down: Shattering of Luclin- roughly 15 years ago the Rending- probably about 100 years ago Invasion of the Nexus/Destruction of Teleportation- a little less than 200 years ago Begining of the Silence of the Gods- probably 498 years ago Awakening of the Sleeper- 500 years ago. Hope that helps put things in perspective <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote> The Rending happened over the course of 300 years, and Luclin was sealed off within the first 50.

[Nocturnal Aby]

<p>Wow...lots of stuff, most of which I was planning on covering if I ever wrote another article for eq2 WarCry, which reminds me, my sincerest apologies to Rapha and Coccinea.</p><p>The History of the Kerra, as I have researched it is very interesting!  The first time there was a distinction between the "kerra" and the "Vah Shir" was back during the war between the Erudites and the Heretics, in which the Vah Shir were blasted away from the rest of the Kerra, their capital city having been teleported to Luclin by the Erudites.  After this, the Erudites rounded up the majority of the kerran tribes, and deposited them on the Kerra Ridge.  I'm not exactly sure on how long it had been since the Erudite Civil War and EQ, but I think it would be safe to say that it was at the very least a century or two.  It was in the Age of Turmoil (EQ) in which Luclin's orbit once again came close enough to Norrath for travel to and from the moon to become possible.  During this time, not only did tons of Norrathians invade Luclin, but a fairly good number of Vah Shir came back to Norrath, and were able to re-unite with their now distant cousins, the kerra.  When Luclin was again cut off from Norrath, the Vah Shir that were on Norrath, were stuck here.  The devs tell us that their blood became mixed with the kerra, until there was little distinction, and thus you have the kerra of EQ2.</p><p>The differences you see in the three screen shots, imho, show less the distinction of kerra EQ, Vah Shir, and Kerra EQ2, and more the distinction of EQ launch, EQ after Shadows of Luclin (what is that, four years or so after launch?), and EQ2 Pre-launch.</p><p>I personally think EQ2 did a very, very crappy job with the kerra.  They don't look feline at all.  Even when playing with their faces in char-creation, it's very hard to get them to look cat-like.  The problem you have with armor is not unique to the kerra.  In EQ, every race had distinct and different armor patterns, so that even if three different races were wearing, say, a bronze breastplate, you'd get three different graphics.  I liked this, personally, it gave more distinction, and added flavor between the races.  The Barbarians, for example, all wore kilts.  I thought that was pretty awesome.  The Teir'Dal had a lot of skulls and such with their armor.  I remember their women looked pretty wicked in chain, too.  The Wood Elves, of course had more nature-themed armor, with leave and antler motifs.  You could tell at a glance what race someone was simply because of their armor.</p><p>I think that racial armor would be a great addition to the game, much like it was in EQ.  You could make the stats uniform for the peice, so people wouldn't cry foul, but to add distinct and cool looking armor, crafted, of course, by someone of your race, would add a nice flavor to the game.  You could even take this to other aspects of crafting, such as racial furniture (which they already have some, but anyone can make), racial weapons, racial cooking (Grobb Liquidized Meat, anyone?  Or how about a Misty Thicket Picnic!), and racial fluff spells!</p><p>*clears throat* Sorry to get semi-off topic, but yes.  Some toying with the kerra model design would be a good idea.</p>

[Cusashorn]

They're cat-like humanoids. They dont have to look like lions and tigers, because they're a sentient bi-pedal race with catlike features. I mean physically, if they had a lion's head, thier spinal structure and vocal cords would be totally messed up. Evolution happens.

[Mirander_1]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mirander_1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's how the major events more or less went down: Shattering of Luclin- roughly 15 years ago the Rending- probably about 100 years ago Invasion of the Nexus/Destruction of Teleportation- a little less than 200 years ago Begining of the Silence of the Gods- probably 498 years ago Awakening of the Sleeper- 500 years ago. Hope that helps put things in perspective <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote> The Rending happened over the course of 300 years, and Luclin was sealed off within the first 50.</blockquote>Luclin was sealed off on the eighth centenial of Erud's birth.  Erud was alive in EQOA, 500 years prior to EQlive, and was Human, so couldn't have lived more than about 100 years total.  Taking that into account, it happend 300 years after EQlive, maybe a few decades before, to account for his age in EQOA (how old was he there, anyway?).

[cravencx]

<p>Well, in a more realistic sense. Who wouldn't want Spartans of old trudgeing around defending their lands with their awesome Ridley Scott...ness. But we aren't going to get that. HOWEVER. The genes of those great people are in some humans on this planet, beleive it. Even you who are reading this might have Spartan DNA in you. IT's about tradition, that's what holds something together. The Vah Shir did rejpoin the other three bloodlines of Kejaat. And there is absolutly nothing wrond with that. We as humans do the same thing all the time. It is the traditions of the Shir that we should remember. ANd as a Kerran with the blood of SHir running through there veins, it is simple to honor the traditions that most likely still travel orally through the kerran lore. Antonius Bayle will be hosting a large Vah Shir event to remember the Shir. All kerrans are welcome. as for getting the race you want. At least they gave a reason for the disapperance of the Shir. What the heck happened to the Drakken?</p>

[Foolsfolly]

<p>Wow, nice necrobump.</p><p>What I remember most about the Vah`Shir is the [Removed for Content] and the purple panties...and unfortunately only SoE's art department can bring those back to us.</p><p>As for the reason why the Vah`Shir vanished from the face of Norrath, Luclin's destruction doesn't really cover it all that well. The Kerra city was cut off from Norrath almost as long as Shar`Vahl has been gone, yet the kerran's have become an adventurer class. There must have been thousands of Vah`Shir adventurers safely away on Norrath when Luclin blew, so why haven't they thrived, or at the very least survived in some capacity?</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>cravencx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well, in a more realistic sense. Who wouldn't want Spartans of old trudgeing around defending their lands with their awesome Ridley Scott...ness. But we aren't going to get that. HOWEVER. The genes of those great people are in some humans on this planet, beleive it. Even you who are reading this might have Spartan DNA in you. IT's about tradition, that's what holds something together. The Vah Shir did rejpoin the other three bloodlines of Kejaat. And there is absolutly nothing wrond with that. We as humans do the same thing all the time. It is the traditions of the Shir that we should remember. ANd as a Kerran with the blood of SHir running through there veins, it is simple to honor the traditions that most likely still travel orally through the kerran lore. Antonius Bayle will be hosting a large Vah Shir event to remember the Shir. All kerrans are welcome. as for getting the race you want. At least they gave a reason for the disapperance of the Shir. What the heck happened to the Drakken?</p></blockquote><p>Oh that's easy, the Drakken never existed in EQ2. They were introduced <strong>in real time</strong> after the EQ1/EQ2 time split, so the devs in EQ2 are under no obligation to add the Drakken to EQ2.</p><p>Now I'm sure if enough people ask for the Drakken to be introduced the producers of this game might consider making the Droag a playable race. Or possibly have a rogue dragon like Nagafen introduce the Drakken race to EQ2. Maybe even introduce the Drakken as a part of the Claw of Veeshan's solution to the Giant problem.</p><p>Whatever reason they give in EQ2 doesn't have to have anything to do with the reason they gave in EQ1. Only Lore that was in game at the time PoP came out needs to be accounted for in EQ2. Even though the Drakken are supposidly thousands of years old (or whatever) EQ2 can safely ignore them because they were introduced after PoP.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>cravencx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well, in a more realistic sense. Who wouldn't want Spartans of old trudgeing around defending their lands with their awesome Ridley Scott...ness. But we aren't going to get that. HOWEVER. The genes of those great people are in some humans on this planet, beleive it. Even you who are reading this might have Spartan DNA in you. IT's about tradition, that's what holds something together. The Vah Shir did rejpoin the other three bloodlines of Kejaat. And there is absolutly nothing wrond with that. We as humans do the same thing all the time. It is the traditions of the Shir that we should remember. ANd as a Kerran with the blood of SHir running through there veins, it is simple to honor the traditions that most likely still travel orally through the kerran lore. Antonius Bayle will be hosting a large Vah Shir event to remember the Shir. All kerrans are welcome. as for getting the race you want. At least they gave a reason for the disapperance of the Shir. What the heck happened to the Drakken?</p></blockquote><p>Oh that's easy, the Drakken never existed in EQ2. They were introduced <strong>in real time</strong> after the EQ1/EQ2 time split, so the devs in EQ2 are under no obligation to add the Drakken to EQ2.</p><p>Now I'm sure if enough people ask for the Drakken to be introduced the producers of this game might consider making the Droag a playable race. Or possibly have a rogue dragon like Nagafen introduce the Drakken race to EQ2. Maybe even introduce the Drakken as a part of the Claw of Veeshan's solution to the Giant problem.</p><p>Whatever reason they give in EQ2 doesn't have to have anything to do with the reason they gave in EQ1. Only Lore that was in game at the time PoP came out needs to be accounted for in EQ2. Even though the Drakken are supposidly thousands of years old (or whatever) EQ2 can safely ignore them because they were introduced after PoP.</p></blockquote><p>A developer once mentioned that they don't exist in EQ2's timeline because they were created due to events that happened in EQlive after the Time split. I wish I could find it here on the forums, but I remember reading it.</p>

[Saroc_Luclin]

I remember that post as well though no idea where. In EQLive, the Drakkin came about because Mayong found a way to the sacred Dragon Broodlands on north-central Antonica. He started sowing his corruption in the dragons and their eggs there, to try and gain more power (as usual). Eventually, he used his cursed book, the Shadowspine, to corrupt the older dragons there, especially the egg tender Vishimtar, and the storm dragon Yar'lir. (Sometime after that, possibly under Mayong's implied guidance, gnomish diggers dug a tunnel from Lavastorm to the Broodlands and unleashed Adventurers on the corrupted dragon lands there, which served to distract both the dragons and the Adventurers from what Mayong was doing next door and underground in the Depths of Darkhollow) Once the corruption of the egg tender Vishimtar and the other elder dragons like Yar'lir was evident, a smaller council of dragons activated a plan in the Serpent Spine mountains to protect the dragon holy temple of Ashengate. They moved away from the Broodlands and took over an ancient Ogre city from the Rathe wars era, and using their own blood to empower and change humans and occasionally elves into Drakkin to boost their numbers. (Dyn'leth is specifically from Elvish stock originally; he also curiously seems to be a lot older than a plan hatched since the Broodlands were invaded would indicate, meaning he may have been one of the first dragon-touched.)

[Telperien]

<p>I only vaguely remember this, but isn't it true that before they were blasted up to the moon the Vah Shir were merely the nobility of the kerra race as opposed to a seperate race at all.  And if thats true then the breeding of Vah Shir with kerra is more like The Queen of England mating with an American truck driver than a true interspecies breeding.  Does anyone else recall the Vah Shir being the kerran nobility?</p>

[Liched]

<p><p>'The Vah Shir are an offshoot of the kerran race that originated on the Norrathian continent of Odus. Legend holds that the kerrans were once bitterly divided and in the throes of a bloody civil war when a great leader, Kejaan Kerrath, emerged to unite the tribes into a single nation. A golden age followed, during which the kerrans became the dominant species on Odus. Kejaan proved a wise and resourceful ruler, drawing his elite nobles from among the other kerran clans. <strong>From clan Shir came nobles, generals, and warriors</strong>. From Kajek came shamans and counselors. From the clan of Shahar, Kejaan drew his hunters and farmers, and from clan Karani, he selected his civil servants and bureaucrats. The so-called Komiyat Kerrath grew in strength and influence.'</p></p>

[Sale]

<p><cite>Saroc_Luclin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I remember that post as well though no idea where.  In EQLive, the Drakkin came about because Mayong found a way to the sacred Dragon Broodlands on north-central Antonica. He started sowing his corruption in the dragons and their eggs there, to try and gain more power (as usual). Eventually, he used his cursed book, the Shadowspine, to corrupt the older dragons there, especially the egg tender Vishimtar, and the storm dragon Yar'lir. (Sometime after that, possibly under Mayong's implied guidance, gnomish diggers dug a tunnel from Lavastorm to the Broodlands and unleashed Adventurers on the corrupted dragon lands there, which served to distract both the dragons and the Adventurers from what Mayong was doing next door and underground in the Depths of Darkhollow)                                                                                                                                                Once the corruption of the egg tender Vishimtar and the other elder dragons like Yar'lir was evident, a smaller council of dragons activated a plan in the Serpent Spine mountains to protect the dragon holy temple of Ashengate. They moved away from the Broodlands and took over an ancient Ogre city from the Rathe wars era, and using their own blood to empower and change humans and occasionally elves into Drakkin to boost their numbers. (Dyn'leth is specifically from Elvish stock originally; he also curiously seems to be a lot older than a plan hatched since the Broodlands were invaded would indicate, meaning he may have been one of the first dragon-touched.)</blockquote><p>Eh, Mayong's book had a lot to do but wasn't venril the one that corrupted the nest? Regardless, Yar'lir wasnt corrupted, only the ones on the nest were, you just kill Yar'lir because well, she is ancient a guardian and crap and you have to because you are the "hero" of you respective faction xp  Gnomes were just being gnomes when they started digging and the Drakkins came to be by six now rogue dragons that went against the will of the elders. Dyn'leth is the son of one of the scale of veeshan guardian dragons, Lethar and an elven girl, he is the only "true" drakkin (he has wings, lots of black scales and is ugly as fudge), the others were just infused not the child of some human impregnated by a dragon on elf form xp</p>