Are the gods returning?

[Renita_Serafim]

<div>While I was doing some of the new newbie zone quests today, I could sense a very strong implication through them that the gods might finally be returning. Part of the way through the Graveyard quest, this suspicion just might have been confirmed.</div><div> </div><div><img src="http://img427.imageshack.us/img427/3429/mithenialmarr3gm.jpg"></div><div> </div><div>Could this possibly be foreshadowing for a future live event or expansion?</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<div></div><div></div><p>I think the gods will return;  haltingly, in fits and starts, over the course of the next year or so. </p><p>They won't be the same as they were, (are), in EQLive though. </p><p>I doubt very seriously that the Planes of Power will ever be accessible again, and  I would be very suprised to see the physical manifestations of the gods included at all.  But I think their returning presence will be detected through their agents and minions on Norrath. </p><p>I welcome this if it indeed comes to pass, because it helps to renew the fundamental plot lines that EQ began with.  The abandonment of those plot lines has been to the detriment of the game in my opinion. </p><p>Also, there has been a lot of focus on Dragons, and Drakotas and such in EQ2.  It would not suprise me to see Veeshan enter actively into the EQ2 storyline at sometime as well.</p><p>Message Edited by Mary the Prophetess on <span class="date_text">02-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:59 AM</span></p>

[Koehianna]

<div></div><div>Oh please, I don't want PoP to return, if I wanted PoP I'd just go back to EQ1. :smileysad:</div><div> </div><div>But the presence of the gods might be a welcome change. :smileyhappy:</div><p>Message Edited by Koehianna on <span class="date_text">02-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:07 AM</span></p>

[Cusashorn]

<div>They wont. I stand firm and confidant that Sony would never break the foundation lore behind EQ2 like that.</div>

[Rounl]

<div></div>it's what the masses desire more then the vision.

[Cusashorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rounlin wrote:<div></div>it's what the masses desire more then the vision.<hr></blockquote><p>.... You never played EQlive... did you?</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>*bursts out into uncontrollable laughter*</p>

[IlionSturmli]

<div>I'm pretty sure that, in the future, the gods will start to influent Norrath a littel bit more.This thing with Marr in the Graveyard is just the start.I don't think they will return to Norrath.But the ego of the gods is just to big, they want to be worshiped, thats why they will start to show that they are still around.</div>

[Rounl]

<div></div><p>aug 25, 1999 then add on 5+ years after that...</p><p> </p><p>Why do you think EQ1 had so many expansions, so many things geared towards the high end...</p>

[Cusashorn]

<div>Because high level players demanded more stuff to do, but the developers themselves Chose exactly what we were going to get.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>If you played the Gates of Discord expansion pack, you will know that They honestly truely flat out IGNORED the player's desires as they just focused more and more on cranking out a new expansion every 6 months.</div><div> </div><div>By the time Omens of War came out, they made a public appology to it's fanbase for Gates of Discord, for ignoring thier requests and not listening to what the players felt would make the game better.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>But it was too late by then. Gates of Discord was the worst selling expansion in the game's history and EQlive took a steep decline in subscribers.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Players never wanted Legacy of Ykesha. Players never wanted Lost Dungeons of Norrath...</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Heck, the Players never wanted Luclin. They wanted a better way to transport around the world, but not that timesink crapfest.</div>

[Rounl]

<div></div>all i am saying is dont say never

[Mary the Prophetess]

<div></div><p>I am not convinced it <strong>IS</strong> what the masses want. </p><p>People that play MMORPGs fall into two categories:</p><p>1. Those that view it as a game, and are interested in progression and the challenge of beating the game, and who have only passing interest in the story-line, or even the setting.  A galaxay far, far away, or the Depths of Darkhollow, are really of secondary importance.  It is the challenge of beating the game mechanics which is most important.  To these players, content that keeps pace with their progression and skills is what they desire.</p><p>2. Those that view the game as not merely a game, but as a story that they immerse themselves in.  Game mechanics to role-players is of secondary importantance;  it is the depth of lore, and of an on-going, consistent story line that is the most important factor.</p><p>Meeting the desires of both groups is not mutually exclusive.  It is possible to keep the gamers engaged and interested, without having to muck-up the plot-lines important to the role-players.</p><p>The gamers are not really desireous of a return to the Planes per se;  any challenge that is comensurate with their levels and skills would do.</p><p>We will not see the Planes again in EQ2 in my opinion.</p>

[Rounl]

<div></div>maybe not the Planes of Power persay, but I can almost guarantee the gods will return to norrath in one form or another and we'll be able to fight with them or with them.

[Cusashorn]

<div>Doubt it. It would break the foundation of lore that EQ2 is based off of, as I said earlier.</div>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<div></div><p>I doubt it seriously. </p><p><strong>IF</strong> they return in a physical manifestation, it will be as a part of a GM event and not permanent.   They will be invulnerable to attack.</p><p>If you are correct though, it would be a total disaster for the people who view this as a story-line rather than as a game, as it would totally muck-up the previous lore.</p>

[Rounl]

<div></div>OoW and GoD broke off from the lore in EQ, yeah there was a small tie in, but it really didnt have much to do with the lore.

[Mary the Prophetess]

<div></div><p>Correct.  And it irritated a LOT of people in the second class of player (myself included).</p><p>The irony is, there was no need to do it.  They could have chosen high-end content more consistent with the EQ story lines than they did.</p><p>But it was not merely the topic of the expansions, it was the whole focus on the 'hours long, 50 player raids' to the exclusion of the' 2 hour-a-session, three nights a week', casual gamer.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<div>Yeah GoD and OoW gave us really strange creatures and environments. Way too science-fictiony and it alienated a lot of players.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Lets keep in mind that these are MMORPG's, and the first catagory of player who desired to beat the game will never be able to do so, because the nature of the game itself means there isn't an end boss.</div><div> </div><div>If they bring back the gods, what do you think players will want after they get bored of defeating them? It starts a vicious cycle.</div>

[Renita_Serafim]

<div>What the game really needs in terms of villains that people can percieve as a genuine threat to Norrath or maybe even worlds beyond it is a character who crosses that sort of blurred line between mere mortal and diety whilst not mentioning the G word. Someone like the Creator of Obelisk fame who seems godlike and yet at the same time, maybe not godlike.</div>

[Eriol]

The whole lore behind EQ2 is NOT that the gods abandoned norrath permanently, but rather that they HAD to leave to "slap back" mortals for a while... but the whole meeting and the actions therein of the Gods suggests that they WILL be back someday.Hardly "breaking" the lore to have them come back. I predict they will. Honestly, I expected them already.

[Jaranna]

<blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div>Players never wanted Legacy of Ykesha. Players never wanted Lost Dungeons of Norrath...</div><hr></blockquote>Incorrect. I know a lot of players (myself included) that enjoyed the hell out of these expansions, and still do. In my opinion, LoY and LDoN are two of the best expansions (welll...expansion and "extension" ) that EQ ever has had.<p>Message Edited by Jaranna on <span class="date_text">02-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:08 AM</span></p>

[Cusashorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Jaranna wrote:<blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div>Players never wanted Legacy of Ykesha. Players never wanted Lost Dungeons of Norrath...</div><hr></blockquote>Incorrect. I know a lot of players (myself included) that enjoyed the hell out of these expansions, and still do. In my opinion, LoY and LDoN are two of the best expansions (welll...expansion and "extension" ) that EQ ever has had.<p>Message Edited by Jaranna on <span class="date_text">02-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:08 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>Yes, but did those said players you mention *WANT* such content to exist in the first place? Did they first think up the idea of creating multiple zones that players would enter into in order to complete a certain objective in under a certain time limit and be rewarded with points they could spend to buy new stuff?</p><p> </p>

[Xita]

<div></div><p>I kind of think that players do want to see a retrun of the gods, it isn't going against the premise of eq2, as the premise was not to have a static storyline. One god piercing the veil, especially the wrong god could upset things quite nicely for a while and give players something to do not just at the high end.</p><p>It would be nice to see more devlopment of the Lucan/Antonia Storyline first though.</p><p> </p>

[Jaranna]

I wanted single-group content that could be done with limited time. And LDoN delivered. I wasn't too hot on the time limit, but once my group learned the problems inherent in each of the dungeons, we were able to succeed on a regular basis, and could usually do 2 missions in our regular play time.I liked LoY because it was focused on the small group. I don't recall any raid content in that extension, other than the Broodmother (which I once saw a bard solo) and now Innoruuk (maybe). My small guild could go there and actually do something worthwhile other than head to Halls of Honor and grind mobs for three hours.

[Renita_Serafim]

<div></div><p>I did the Graveyard quests again with an alt and, prepared for the Mithenial Marr message this time, took a screenshot.</p><p><img src="http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/5087/smite7uw.jpg"></p>

[Lightbearer007]

With that post I dont see how anyone could deny the fact that the gods arent at least doing SOMETHING in the world of norrath. I for one did 2 newbie quests that came out in LU #19 and both "Race Mentor" NPCs spoke of acquiring knowledge. I do believe that was the whole premise of the PoP expansion. Adventurers were so hungry for knowledge they banned together and saught after it in the Planes. In this <a href="http://www.gamergod.com/article.php?article_id=3590" target="_blank">Q&A from Gamergod.com</a> about Kingdom of Sky, Scott Hartsman the Senior Producer of EQ2 stated and I quote " For this expansion in particular, the floating islands of the Overrealm themselves originated in the Plane of Sky." That means the dragons are in a part of the PLANE of Sky. Also if you listen carefully to the beginning dialogue after you create a new character the narrator, whoever it is, says " Long ago, the ancient gods grew weiry and jealous of the mortals ever increasing power. They formed a great council and made a pact to withdraw their influence from the realm of norrath... or so it seemed." I know this was before the shattering and the battle of Defiance where the gods avatars fought but it does mention that it seemed like the gods had left norrath not to influence norrathians in anything they did and yet the screenshot that Astralmage posted clearly shows that they are influencing us and what we do. Any time before LU #19 we saw nothing of this but NOW out of the blue we do. Like another poster suggested to in another thread, although I cant remember his name for the life of me speculated that because of the holidays being a prime time to play MMORPGs and having Vanguard set the release date for around then SOE has to put something out thats big so they dont lose customers. The returning of the gods is a major thing in EQ2s current state. Lets have that information scramble around in your brain a little and see what ideas we can come up with now. <span>:smileywink:</span><a href="http://www.gamergod.com/article.php?article_id=3590" target="_blank"></a><div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<div>The PLANE of Sky no longer exists. all it's contents now exist in Norrath. they came FROM the Plane of Sky, but that doesn't mean that they *ARE* the Plane of sky.</div>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<div></div>That seems to be a distinction without a difference.

[teddyboy4]

<div>The base lore of EQ2 really does not state anywhere, or even imply that they would be withdrawing forever. If we are to go by the Tome of Destiny then we learn that they simply want to stop the races from working together to avoid another incident like what occured in the PoT. And we learn from Zeb that if the mortal races were to ever truly stop worshiping the gods and lose thier faith than the gods would cease to exist. Why would they forver remove themselves and thier influence if it would eventually destroy them, it makes no sense.</div><div> </div><div>The gods WILL be back, it's just a matter of time. We are already starting to see more and more hints of thier influence in places. I don't think they will make the mistake of opening thier planes to the mortals again, but I think we will see them in some way again over the course of EQ2's life.</div>

[Zabjade]

<font color="#66cc00"><b>I wonder how the gods will deal with the increased rejection of them if they do come back. many will feel betrayed. <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span></b></font><font color="#006600">Have you even noticed that The Nameless was never choosable as a diety? Not to mention little to no lore behind it.</font><div></div>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<div></div><p>I think game designers are almost forced to adopt a pantheon rather than a single diety.</p><p>To do otherwise might be skating too close to real-life sensibilities, and they would rather not have to deal with being 'demonized' in real life the way D&D was at one time.</p>

[Descolin]

I actually really like the idea of Planes of Power and Luclin, it's all very fantastical. Never really played EQLive though, did for a week or so, went to Luclin once and enjoyed it (super low level, just looked around)<div></div>

[Kamimura]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>teddyboy420 wrote:<div>The base lore of EQ2 really does not state anywhere, or even imply that they would be withdrawing forever.</div><hr></blockquote>Agree with that. I can see the Gods returning, and it wouldn't go against the lore. We're seeing bits and peices of them, like the quest this thread was talking about. I doubt we'd be able to kill them or anything like that, it wouldn't be like PoP.. but I can definietly see them coming back eventually.</span></div>

[AbsentmindedMage]

If you look at your faction stuff you will see that when you place the item and are smitted by Marr, your faction with the Spirits of Marr gets worse.Personally, I think the Gods are fighting and that is why they are absent.  If they return, I would think it would be in a weakened state.<div></div>

[Nainitsuj]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div> </div><div>Players never wanted Lost Dungeons of Norrath...</div><div> </div><hr></blockquote><p>Yes they did.  People used to complain all the time that the mobs were always contested.  They asked for a way to have a dungeon crawl like the old PnP games.  They asked for a way to compete with each other and to be rewarded for their efforts. </p><p>Sounds like LDoN to me.  And because of it we now have instanced zones in EQ2.</p>

[Aeroslin]

I don't think PoP will return in the sense that it was access to the Dieties.  However, I do see a trend into the direction of some new players in the pantheon.  Something darker than the darkest which will cause both sides to ally or some such... usually makes a good storyline background.I believe that any plane that a wizard could teleport to, isn't really a plane in the same sense that PoP had.  The plane of air, fear, and ?nightmare? were magical constructs outside of the normal pantheon's areas.  Of course that's just my own though and purely speculation.<div></div>

[Naltec]

<div></div>What was it, PoF and PoH that came first in EQ1?  Then PoA?  So we pretty much have Plane of Air/Plane of Sky back.  It looks from some of the pictures we may have dracolich back (who was originally in PoF I think).  Is this just a first step to bringing back familiar territory? I could be totally wrong.Anyway, all this talk makes me miss EQ1.  When you guys brought up Steamfont and Faydwer it reminded me of the funny music from the boats and the rest of that area.  Plus, of course, the Kobolds, Unrest, and Phinny.Edit: Oh, and a note on the Luclin exp.   I will say that there are many areas i enjoyed there.   Katta and the vampires, Sanctus Seru, Ssra, Shar Vahl, Akheva, Twilight Sea.  I thought the zones themselves were spectacular.  And the lore that went with it was very nice too.  However, I found that nothing was accessible and time invested was not worth the return.   So I think that Luclin had a lot of potential. Somebody above stated that there were 2 types of gamers.  I'd say , if that is true, then Luclin had the potential to be very satisfiying lore-wise.  But it failed on both accounts because, 1 its mechanics weren't great, and 2 the lore was hardly accessable. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Naltec on <span class="date_text">02-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:10 AM</span></p>

[RoninSenshi]

<div></div><p>Mithanel Marr smoted me for a good 8 points of damage.</p><p> </p><p>If he's comming back I think he needs to level a bit..</p>

[Saroc_Luclin]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>ShintouShinai wrote:<div></div><p>Mithanel Marr smoted me for a good 8 points of damage.</p><p> </p><p>If he's comming back I think he needs to level a bit..</p><hr></blockquote>Nah that was his "Go away, you bug me kid" smite meant to encourage you to go elsewhere since he doesn't have time to pull you into the ring and do a 9 round Pay Per View proper Smiting.</span></div>

[i3ry]

I dunno, I remember about 500 years ago his smite hurt like hell.<div></div>

[IlionSturmli]

<div><blockquote><hr>Zabjade wrote:<font color="#66cc00"><b>I wonder how the gods will deal with the increased rejection of them if they do come back. many will feel betrayed. <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span></b></font><font color="#006600">Have you even noticed that The Nameless was never choosable as a diety? Not to mention little to no lore behind it.</font><div></div><hr></blockquote>that's maybe because The Nameless is more like the "super-god". He is the universe itself</div>

[AbsentmindedMage]

<span><blockquote><hr>ShintouShinai wrote:<div></div><p>Mithanel Marr smoted me for a good 8 points of damage.</p><p> </p><p>If he's comming back I think he needs to level a bit..</p><hr></blockquote>That smite was actually more of a faction hit.  It was just enough to turn the undead knights of marr roaming the graveyard against you.  I nearly died because I didnt realize that they were aggro to me after the event.</span><div></div>

[Geilt]

<div></div><p>The Nameless, I believe, is the transcendent force which created the Gods. Its very similar to the idea behind Kabbalistic Judaism, where you have the Sefirot as emanations from Ain Sof (The infinite, *in EQ: The Nameless), the Sefirot being Aspects of the divine, which in turn are reflections of aspects of humanity (Judgment, mercy, wisdom, understanding, etc).Its interesting that most of the Gods of Norrath are of specific aspects of human being, such as Hate, War, Love, and the elements, Fire, Water, etc. which is in parallel to the Sefirot, however more diversified.The reason The Nameless can’t be chosen as a deity is because you can’t worship discuss, or promulgate a transcendental God which does not exist within the world, yet exists as well. This God is neither good, not evil, nor neutral. This God is beyond anthropomorphism, and cannot be referred to in human terms, not even as a "force" or "power" because that would allude to a rationally understandable concept. You'' never hear of a transcendental god such as the nameless Speak, at least in my opinion, because speaking is anthropomorphic by nature. It is said that the only thing that can be said of this God, is what it is not, which culminates in infinite negation.For those of you that don’t know: Anthropomorphism = <b>:</b> an interpretation of what is not human or personal in terms of human or personal characteristics <b>:</b></p><b></b><div></div>

[Zabjade]

<span><blockquote><hr>IlionSturmlied wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Zabjade wrote:<font color="#66cc00"><b>I wonder how the gods will deal with the increased rejection of them if they do come back. many will feel betrayed. <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span></b></font><font color="#006600">Have you even noticed that The Nameless was never choosable as a diety? Not to mention little to no lore behind it.</font><div></div><hr></blockquote>that's maybe because The Nameless is more like the "super-god". He is the universe itself</div><hr></blockquote><font color="#66cc00"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">Probably the one who empowers spells like resurection. Since they still work no matter the alignment of the caster vs rezzie.</font></font></font></span><div></div>

[lucid_dream]

<div></div><p>The Tomb of Destiny says that the Gods have agreed with each other to remove their influence from Norrath, partly as a punishment to the mortals for invading their planes during the PoP era. Without the pantheon to protect Norrath, it is far more vulnerable to attacks and influences from other sources. I believe this is why we see so much devestation during the shattering and the rending etc.</p><p> </p><p>However it doesn't mean the Gods are gone forever. In fact several of the Gods (presumably in order to get the upper hand over their "enemies" within the pantheon) annointed Avatars on Norrath who would continue their work. To be their eyes and ears on Norrath. Karana himself and Quellious both annoint Avatars in the Tomb of Destiny (a ranger and a monk respectively). And I'd bet that Zek, Sol Ro, Innoruuk and others all have their own agents doing their bidding.</p><p> </p><p>The new newbie questlines just re-affirm the fact that the gods are not gone. They were in fact never gone. They were just in hiding. Waiting for the right moment to return. The "you have been smited by Mithaniel Marr" text from the quest in the graveyard is pretty hard evidence to ignore. Sony are just setting up some background lore at the moment, waiting for the right time to bring them back. Anyone who denies it, is just ignoring the obvious. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p>

[Saroc_Luclin]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>lucid_dream wrote:<div></div><p>The Tomb of Destiny says that the Gods have agreed with each other to remove their influence from Norrath, partly as a punishment to the mortals for invading their planes during the PoP era. Without the pantheon to protect Norrath, it is far more vulnerable to attacks and influences from other sources. I believe this is why we see so much devestation during the shattering and the rending etc.</p><p> </p><p>However it doesn't mean the Gods are gone forever. In fact several of the Gods (presumably in order to get the upper hand over their "enemies" within the pantheon) annointed Avatars on Norrath who would continue their work. To be their eyes and ears on Norrath. Karana himself and Quellious both annoint Avatars in the Tomb of Destiny (a ranger and a monk respectively). And I'd bet that Zek, Sol Ro, Innoruuk and others all have their own agents doing their bidding.</p><p> </p><p>The new newbie questlines just re-affirm the fact that the gods are not gone. They were in fact never gone. They were just in hiding. Waiting for the right moment to return. The "you have been smited by Mithaniel Marr" text from the quest in the graveyard is pretty hard evidence to ignore. Sony are just setting up some background lore at the moment, waiting for the right time to bring them back. Anyone who denies it, is just ignoring the obvious. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>Minor quibble: It is Tome not Tomb. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I'd normally leave that be but the words mean two different things. One is a book, usually a book of knowledge. The other is a place to bury bodies. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />As for other Avatars, EQLive had an Avatars of Fear in the Temple of Cazic Thule and an Avatars of War in Kael Drakkel. The 8th Shawl walk may have summoned an Avatar of the Underfoot to bless your shawl I think, but I'm not positive of that.I asked what other Avatars were around in another thread here, but I can't recall all of them (I always seem to miss/mess up a few of them. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  </span></div>

[Jaranna]

The Avatar of Water showed up at the end of the Water Sprinkler of Nem Ankh quest, though it looked nothing like Coirnav, who was the Avatar of Water in PoP. Brell's avatar does indeed bless your 7th shawl to create the 8th. There are Fear and War as were mentioned. Firiona Vie is/was the Avatar of Tunare. Lanys T'Vyl might have been the Avatar of Hate, I'm not sure. But, she's now a demigod, and so no longer an avatar.I can't think of anymore avatars that actually appeared in the game.

[Icarii_Raven`Lyon]

<div>This may be off topic at this point, but Ive always wondered why you have to defeat Coirnav for plane of water, but you actually defeat FR, Xegony and the Rathe for the other planes. How come I didnt get to try to kill the Triumvirate of Water (which i cant spell today)?</div>

[Cusashorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Icarii_Raven`Lyon wrote:<div>This may be off topic at this point, but Ive always wondered why you have to defeat Coirnav for plane of water, but you actually defeat FR, Xegony and the Rathe for the other planes. How come I didnt get to try to kill the Triumvirate of Water (which i cant spell today)?</div><hr></blockquote><p>Actually you did spell Triumvirate correctly.</p><p>Cornaiv is the physical manifestation of Ice, Water, and Vapor combined together.</p><p>Instead of having to fight Povar, E'Ci, and Tarew Marr individually, the 3 Gods of Water combined themselves into one being, giving it control over all three physical states of water.</p>

[Icarii_Raven`Lyon]

<div>Ah nice, thanks =)</div>

[Pentarum]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>My opinion from what I've seen happening in small bits and pieces over a few thousand years of Norath history.</p><p>EQ1 : Mayong Mistmore had dealings with the ring of scale and is rumored to have had a influence in some of their dealings and plans. Mayong disapears. We enter the planes and are warned to stop our path of destruction because the gods were affraid that we would figure out how to achieve godhood. Our minds are wiped of the events. Mayong returns as one of the most powerful beings walking norath. Through well laid out webs of deception and trickery he uses us enabling him to become a god. Thus confirming the prophecy's that Zeboruuk warned of and that the other gods tried to prevent. We begin to hear rumblings of a new power in the planes (Mayong?) that is severly shaking things up.</p><p>EQ2 : The gods are gone, hiding or are locked away. Recent events hint the last may be the case. The dragons and ring of scale are returning. The dark elves descover that there is now a hiarchy of vampiric clans and some may be living in old neriak locked away and being run possibly by their former Queen and a male of great power. A note is found at the end of Bloodlines on a "Rook" vampire stating that the "Master" is very unhappy that the presence of his people has been revealed. Pieces of clues about the gods are slowly being revealed and that some great cataclysm happened that made them all become locked away.</p><p>My theory is Mayong ascended to godhood. The gods where lazy and no longer considered anyone a real threat. He goes up there starts kicking some *** starts a war among the gods and he suceeds in locking either all of them of any of them that dint want to go along with his plans away. His plans laid out over 1000's of years with the ring of scale finally succeed and his thirst for power reached frutition. He as a god now rules the planes of his making and the dragons of the ring of scale once again control norath. Im sure im off in alot of respects or mabey completly but I'd dare say that if you piece together all the lore my theory does make alot of sense and has alot to back it up thats now unfolding in EQ1.</p><p>EQ2 is supposed to take place in a alternate timeline. But is it? If it is then I'd say when we freed Zeb and found out about the prophecy and we where mindwiped and sent back in time we at that time branched off. We now live in a world where Mayong suceded as I said above. EQ1 I believe will go the other way and fight and eventually defeat Mayong as is happening now that hes a true god. But the events will lead to "The Shattering" where not only did the land break but all the ties of power magic,mortal,god and dragon etc splintered along with the different timelines. they are now interlaced and crossing over each other and we will eventually have to go back and try and restore things to where they were before Mayong Mistmore became the destroyer of the gods.</p><p>Message Edited by Pentarum on <span class="date_text">02-18-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:50 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Pentarum on <span class="date_text">02-18-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:52 PM</span></p>

[Evian1]

I for one would love to see the gods return in some way...while I did like the planes..the idea of being able to kill gods is nto appealing at all. Entering their planes ? yeah that was fun...killing a fricken god ? <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> no not so much...gods are supposed to be these great beings to be worshiped, not killed by 24 people <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I would love to be able to choose to worship solusek ro with my wizard again..maybe get a new form of AA from it, that would be cool..like if a wiz chooses solusek they can make their fire spells better...or if a inquisitor chooses inny they can become more efficient with their damage spells.<div></div>

[lillin]

<div></div><p>The gods are already here and been here since the beginning i believe.  I am a dark elf necro fan and of course that was my first toon i made.  When leveling we got those racial traits things and i think one or two of em wer " blessings of Innuruuk".</p><p>I dont see how the god's returning would break the eq2 lore.  EQ2 lore simply says they left.  Those who have left can surely come back.</p>

[NightGod473]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Jaranna wrote:The Avatar of Water showed up at the end of the Water Sprinkler of Nem Ankh quest, though it looked nothing like Coirnav, who was the Avatar of Water in PoP. Brell's avatar does indeed bless your 7th shawl to create the 8th. There are Fear and War as were mentioned. Firiona Vie is/was the Avatar of Tunare. Lanys T'Vyl might have been the Avatar of Hate, I'm not sure. But, she's now a demigod, and so no longer an avatar.I can't think of anymore avatars that actually appeared in the game.<hr></blockquote>Firona Vie was the Scion of Tunare, not her Avatar. A mortal champion, not an extension of her power.Lanys was the daughter of Innoruuk, not an Avatar.</span></div>

[ChrisRay]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Jaranna wrote:<blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div>Players never wanted Legacy of Ykesha. Players never wanted Lost Dungeons of Norrath...</div><hr></blockquote>Incorrect. I know a lot of players (myself included) that enjoyed the hell out of these expansions, and still do. In my opinion, LoY and LDoN are two of the best expansions (welll...expansion and "extension" ) that EQ ever has had.<p>Message Edited by Jaranna on <span class="date_text">02-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:08 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>Yes, but did those said players you mention *WANT* such content to exist in the first place? Did they first think up the idea of creating multiple zones that players would enter into in order to complete a certain objective in under a certain time limit and be rewarded with points they could spend to buy new stuff?</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>Yes I want new content such as that in the first place. Because new ideas and keeping the game driving forward "is" important to the growth of the game. I dont want to play the same old EQ 2 in 2 years from now. I want the game to evolve in evolutionary and revolutionary ways that make the game a better place. I dont have all the ideas and I am thankful sony was/is willing to experiment with expansions that IMO were pretty popular.     </span></div>

[Terayon]

I for one would love to see the gods return in some way...while I did like the planes..the idea of being able to kill gods is nto appealing at all. Entering their planes ? yeah that was fun...killing a fricken god ? <img src="../../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif" height="16" width="16" border="0">no not so much...gods are supposed to be these great beings to be worshiped, not killed by 24 people <img src="../../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif" height="16" width="16" border="0">I would love to be able to choose to worship solusek ro with my wizard again..maybe get a new form of AA from it, that would be cool..like if a wiz chooses solusek they can make their fire spells better...or if a inquisitor chooses inny they can become more efficient with their damage spells.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------That last part sounds like AA's, Ever since they added PvP, they have to be carful what benafits they add for risk of unbalancing gameplay.<div></div>

[Pyrrhon]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Evian1 wrote:I for one would love to see the gods return in some way...while I did like the planes..the idea of being able to kill gods is nto appealing at all. Entering their planes ? yeah that was fun...killing a fricken god ? <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> no not so much...gods are supposed to be these great beings to be worshiped, not killed by 24 people <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I would love to be able to choose to worship solusek ro with my wizard again..maybe get a new form of AA from it, that would be cool..like if a wiz chooses solusek they can make their fire spells better...or if a inquisitor chooses inny they can become more efficient with their damage spells.<hr></blockquote></span><span>I agree. I <i>love </i>having gods in the game. The best fantasy worlds have been driven by grand, unfathomable pantheons.Let's not forget: a priest, a cleric, in real life they're not adventurers of any sort. The reason they developed this stereotype in fantasy literature is because in fantasy worlds the gods actually impart power practically <i>upon request</i>. The cleric contains little or no power of his own; he's simply channeling the power of his god.Regarding killing gods, you're absolutely right. And I think, in the beginning, the intention was to have them EXIST physically in the game -- a very good thing, as I've said above. Gods should be real and visible and "experiencable" in this sort of setting. However, good old "mudflation" caused them to become raid targets.By all means, make the gods actual NPCs in the game. By all means, make them targetable and attackable. But let's not mince words here: make them GODS. Make them so bloody powerful that even when your powergaming raidforce thinks they might finally have enough uber lewtz to kill him, it becomes plain that he was just toying with you (via the devs giving him an upgrade).They point is, gods <i>shouldn't</i> be killed, not in their home planes, where all their power lies. Avatars, hey, they're fair game. But really, gods should possess an unmatchable level of power and tenacity. They represent universal truths and ideals -- some might even call them the incarnations thereof. You can't fight a universal truth, let alone kill it.</span></div>

[Nastharl]

<div></div>The thing is they AREN"T all powerfull. They were made by the nameless, therefore there are limitations to what they can do as well. They aren't gods in the classical definition of the word being that they were ALSO made by something. The only thing that should be zomgbbquber is the Nameless.Edit: I know many gods in mythology are sons of other gods and whatnot, stuff like that, but you get my point.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Nastharl on <span class="date_text">03-20-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:59 PM</span></p>

[BrownDogLongTong]

<div></div><div></div>I would love to see the gods return as quest NPCs. Each would give a class specific epic quest (you can only choose 1 god of course), the end result weapon/hand item differing depending on which god you chose to worship/accept the quest from. I.E. a templar choosing Tunare might have a heal proc whereas if they chose Zek they might get a massive melee proc hammer that would actually make them decent melee, just for fun. Something like that. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />And when I say epic quest, I mean epic quest that not everyone would finish. Talking about your 1 quest from your god here, it couldnt be trivial <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div><p>Message Edited by BrownDogLongTongue on <span class="date_text">03-20-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:21 PM</span></p>

[Kathlean]

Knowing SOE,  I would most defently say this.Gods are Going to return. ...The only reason they left is because mortals became to greedy as they were killing their Advatars to get fancy treasures.You cant really blame them, I mean ..if you have a druid whom worships Tunare, then goes Kills Tunare Advatar to get something? That kinda messed up.Yet, As more info comes into the Game by SOE, it is talkign more and more about the gods. And If you Take a Peak at the Moon lately? When I first started playing this game a Year ago, the moon pieces were far apart..Now look at it..the moon practicly looks put back together.Gods still live, and there will be a new god to come into play however I think..because EQ1 Mistmoore has risen apparently by the lore, to a Deity. ...Not overly surprising as in EQ1 they had to Remove Mistmoore from the game cause everytime he poped..he would Clear the zone ..no one could Ever kill him.<div></div>

[stevenbanks]

<div></div><p>of course there will be a return of the gods. the gods only left because they got mad that everyone was constantly killing them. and after mithaniel marr and all those other gods see what Rallos and Solusek tried to do to norrath without their permission, they will probaly start fighting eachother. maybe godly wars that players can become. maybe be recruited by Innoruk to help him fight the war to become the supreme god.</p><p>It wont cut out the storyline or anything. the gods didnt DIE they just got angry and left for a bit to show norrath that they are screwed without the gods to guide their ways. hey, maybe even iwhen they do come back to the game, they might open up the Nexus portals and we could access the planes (or at least some of them...PoTime ftw!) and maybe do what we all want to do....KILL THE GODS SOME MORE!</p><p>this is my opinion on the matter. i think that the majority of the game wants the gods to come back to norrath so we can get their leet lewtz and armor</p>