Pref Shaman in MT Grp(Raiding)..Mys or Def.?

[mcavellero]

<DIV>Hey all, </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Was wondering, generally, is a defiler or mystic better for MT group?  If so, why?</DIV>

[masoninc61]

<div></div>Defiler, better HP buffs.  We also get an attack speed, dps debuff proc we can put on the mt.<div></div><p>Message Edited by masoninc61 on <span class=date_text>10-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:26 PM</span>

[overfloat]

<P>Our guild has NEVER put a mystic in the MT group, always defilers.</P> <P>In fact we've never taken a mystic on a raid, period. We've taken up to 4 or 5 defilers at once but never a mystic.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>...</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Then again we're a Freeport guild on a PvP server. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Terq]

<DIV> <P>With the current stat caps, most tanks are capped on stamina simply with their own gear.  That means that a Mystic's stamina buffs are completely wasted on that tank.  A defiler however buffs straight HPs, not stats, and therefore the tank actually gets some use from the buff. </P> <P>This might change with EoF, and the increasing stat cap, but for now, a defiler definitely provides more HP to the MT. </P> <P>Other question for Motu: Is the Tendrils line castable raid wide, or just within the group?  </P></DIV>

[TheBladesCaress]

<div><blockquote><hr>Terq wrote:<div><p>Other question for Motu: Is the Tendrils line castable raid wide, or just within the group?  </p></div><hr></blockquote>Group only.</div>

[RustyB]

<DIV>as it stands right now Defiler is the better choice, but don't down play mystics  they can top the heal parse in a mt group just as easy as we do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not too worried about coming expansion with stat caps being raised and such    it does look like a mystic will be buffing an mt group better come expansion, but then again in my opinion their best spell "bolster" is castable throughout raid which makes them just as useful being not in mt group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>when it comes down to it we are the debuffers   so that would make you think we were not meant to be in mt group, but that defensive proc we have is so nice it's almost a crime not to have it on MT.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Scyros]

I'm accually considering having both in the MT grp after the stat cap is raised.  If I recall, the only buff we have that doesn't stack is Mit.  Even our single target HP buff stacks with theirs giving the MT a ton of buffing.  Our Str/HP grp buff stacks with mystics version.  It's something to try at least.  Even if we end up not in the MT grp, we still bring a lot to a raid. But the reactive debuff are really huge.  IMO those matter more than the extra HP we give.  I gues we'll all just have to see how this new change really works.<div></div>

[arieste]

defiler without exception for our raids.

[Domiuk]

<DIV>As above and not just MT group , most guilds run with a 2nd main assist tank group and you want a defiler in that one too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Defilers are pretty much the only healer that 4 on a raid isnt really too many.</DIV>

[MalkorGodchyld]

<P><FONT size=2>   Well...you only really need one Defiler on a raid imo, but yes atm Defilers are preferred over mystics in the MT group mostly because of tendrils being group only as well as spiritual circle.   Mystics can cast some their most important spells raid wide so its just dumb to not maximize your classes in a raid.  The HP buffs?  yeah sure....but come EoF alot is gonna be changed in that area.   </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=2>~ Marius Darkchyld ~   70 Defiler</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>  ~Llfe or' Death ~     36 Warden   </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>            NAGAFEN     </FONT></P>

[arieste]

id say 2 is the ideal number of defilers for a raid, but thats mainly because its been working great in my guild.   one is MT healer, one is focused on consistent debuffs.  Plus, with our regen, we are one of the better classes to assign to chain cure when necessary.<p>Message Edited by arieste on <span class=date_text>10-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:54 PM</span>

[Ssaheb]

I am still new to the defiler class but I thought that tendrils is castable on group or raid friend, just got it at 35 and I am 36 now. I may be wrong but hey im a newb ... well newb defiler <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.

[Facedown]

Defilers do 1700-2000 raw hp to the main tank depending on quality of buffs they have. I dont think mystics come anywhere near that. I believe defilers are more defensive oriented then mystics and therefor will remain in the main tank group for a long time. I have no problem not being the MT group. It means I dont die as much and I can pretend to dps more!<div></div>

[TheBladesCaress]

<div><blockquote><hr>Facedown wrote: I have no problem not being the MT group. It means I dont die as much and I can pretend to dps more!<div></div><hr></blockquote>MT (apart from tank) group is usually the last one standing, and very often, myself (Defiler) and the MT Templar are the last to die.  I have even once finished off the named epic as the last one standing (hehe, doesnt happen very often though).</div>

[Fusion8]

<P>reguarding about defilers having bigger heals, yeh they do but mystics are faster healers.</P> <P> </P>

[Macibaru]

<div><blockquote><hr>Ssaheb wrote:<div></div>I am still new to the defiler class but I thought that tendrils is castable on group or raid friend, just got it at 35 and I am 36 now. I may be wrong but hey im a newb ... well newb defiler <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.<hr></blockquote>Nope, neither of the reactive debuffs are raidwide, just group.</div>

[RustyB]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fusion8 wrote:<BR> <P>reguarding about defilers having bigger heals, yeh they do but mystics are faster healers.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>hmmm   now I've never played a mystic before so I'm not 100% on this  but I'm pretty sure when it comes to warding and healing we are dead even.  both or group and single ward at the same lvl ward for the same.</P> <P>one big difference in us would be our pets.  mystics pet heals group / raid members  where our pet wards grp/raid  members.   In my opinion mystics pet is much better than ours considering our pet is doing pretty much what we already do.</P> <P>I do believe come expansion mystics will be increasing hp in group, but I really do not think it's going to be too significant.  right now Templars and Defilers buff the most hp  I really don't think that's going to change much come expansion.</P>

[Macibaru]

Uh, aren't the AA lines class based? I.E. the exact same for Mystics and Defilers? So, wouldn't their pet do exactly what ours does, assumnig they choose the same AA trees?<div></div>

[MilkToa]

<blockquote><hr>RustyBallz wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Fusion8 wrote:<BR><P>reguarding about defilers having bigger heals, yeh they do but mystics are faster healers.</P><P> </P><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>hmmm   now I've never played a mystic before so I'm not 100% on this  but I'm pretty sure when it comes to warding and healing we are dead even.  both or group and single ward at the same lvl ward for the same.</P><P>one big difference in us would be our pets.  mystics pet heals group / raid members  where our pet wards grp/raid  members.   In my opinion mystics pet is much better than ours considering our pet is doing pretty much what we already do.</P><P>I do believe come expansion mystics will be increasing hp in group, but I really do not think it's going to be too significant.  right now Templars and Defilers buff the most hp  I really don't think that's going to change much come expansion.</P><hr></blockquote>The AA lines are the same for all shaman so there is no difference between the skills available to a mystic vs. defiler pet.

[Facedown]

<div><blockquote><hr>TheBladesCaress wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Facedown wrote: I have no problem not being the MT group. It means I dont die as much and I can pretend to dps more!<div></div><hr></blockquote>MT (apart from tank) group is usually the last one standing, and very often, myself (Defiler) and the MT Templar are the last to die.  I have even once finished off the named epic as the last one standing (hehe, doesnt happen very often though).</div><hr></blockquote>I die when the MT gets double resisted taunts on incoming (chel'drak, matron, tarinax specifically) and occassionally on trash mobs when the tank isnt paying attention because we use a preward pulling system and that 5k worth of wards sure does generate a lot more aggro then the resisted taunt.Generally, if our MT goes down and the ST or MA goes down, our dps get killed then our healers. I usually die just after the assassins and wizards before the scouts. If im not the mt group shaman, I usually die last.</div>

[Dragonreal]

mystics heal for less than defilers, but mystic have the same recast times as wardens (5s and 10s recasts); defiler and mystic cast time on heals is the same though.the mystic/defiler pets ppl referred to as helaing and warding isn't the AA pet.. they were referring to spiritual circle and the mystic's attendant line. circle does a ward on each grp member vs the mystic badger/bear attendant doing a grp regen.<div></div>

[Macibaru]

Ah..."I see," said the blind man, to the deaf man, who was humming a lovely tune, to the man with no nose, who was sniffing a rose in the merry old month of June.<div></div>

[RustyB]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MilkToast wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RustyBallz wrote:<BR> <BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> <BR>Fusion8 wrote:<BR><BR> <BR> <P>reguarding about defilers having bigger heals, yeh they do but mystics are faster healers.</P><BR> <P> </P><BR><BR> <HR> <BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P><BR>hmmm   now I've never played a mystic before so I'm not 100% on this  but I'm pretty sure when it comes to warding and healing we are dead even.  both or group and single ward at the same lvl ward for the same.</P><BR> <P>one big difference in us would be our pets.  mystics pet heals group / raid members  where our pet wards grp/raid  members.   In my opinion mystics pet is much better than ours considering our pet is doing pretty much what we already do.</P><BR> <P>I do believe come expansion mystics will be increasing hp in group, but I really do not think it's going to be too significant.  right now Templars and Defilers buff the most hp  I really don't think that's going to change much come expansion.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>The AA lines are the same for all shaman so there is no difference between the skills available to a mystic vs. defiler pet.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>well..  I wasn't talking about AA   I was talking about our warding pet we get at 58  and the mystics healing badger at (I'm not sure what lvl)

[Terq]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TheBladesCaress wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Terq wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <P>Other question for Motu: Is the Tendrils line castable raid wide, or just within the group?  </P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Group only.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well that blows. 

[Falkounet]

For the same stuff, a defiler has a better mana regen (with the forced cannibalise). So a defiler is better in the MT group because he will be able to chain more group wards than a mystic. Moreover, the reactive debuff (tendrils of horror) is better in a raid than the reactive debuff from the mystic. And we have spiritual circle, the equivalent from the mystics are heals over time, really less usefull in a raid MT.<div></div>

[Balabear]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Falkounet wrote:<BR>For the same stuff, a defiler has a better mana regen (with the forced cannibalise). So a defiler is better in the MT group because he will be able to chain more group wards than a mystic. Moreover, the reactive debuff (tendrils of horror) is better in a raid than <STRONG>the reactive debuff from the mystic</STRONG>. And we have spiritual circle, the equivalent from the mystics are heals over time, really less usefull in a raid MT.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>Sorry, but what spell are you speaking of there? As far as I know, we (mystics) do not have any reactive debuff spells. Enlighten me please :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As of now, I agree that defilers are probably providing more hitpoints to the MT than mystics (if you're a fan of numbers, we're adding around 1300 hitpoints to a MT with uncapped stamina with our adept 3 buffs). Also Torpor and Bolster aren't restricted to group only but work over the whole raid. However, I've often ended up in the MT group and it was still a success.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Balaghira</DIV> <DIV>Mystic of Antonia Bayle</DIV>