Boy was that fun!

[Jakoi]

Hopefully everyone is enjoying Defile.  I know that after a year and a half of being the second worst DPS in the game probably (ahead of Templars) it was funny to see people be amazed by Defile when they parsed some of the fights in Poet's Palace the Return.  When your raid is AOE'ing that many mobs and you pop Defile at the right point I was doing anywhere from 60k to 70k in damage, sometimes behind only our Warlock as far as damage is concerned.  Hopefully we don't see a bunch of crying because it is VERY situational that we can even use this spell but doing a little DPS to actually help out your raid on trash mobs sure can be fun!<div></div>

[Ixnay]

<div></div><div></div><p>I don't mean to come down on you, and it's a free world, but Defile was nerfed hard last week.  Please don't post claims like this, you are acting against the interests of this class.</p><p>I'm level 70 and in a raid guild, and I've used Defile extensively, both before and after the nerf.  If you are saying your dps at a raid using the nerfed defile was #2 damage behind a warlock for a full raid, I would suggest that your raid was severely lacking in dps.  I'm extremely familiar with how the spell works, and couldn't get near that dps position pre-nerf, and more like in the top half when used against multiple mobs under 10% remaining health.</p><p>On the other hand, maybe it is possible against green groups of the "failed raiders" encounters in PPtR, I dunno.  You can't get dps using Defile anywhere near this position with a rounded raid of well equipped players going against even and yellow con heroic mobs.</p><p>Thanks</p><p>Message Edited by Ixnay on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:46 AM</span></p>

[Broomhilda]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Jakoi wrote:...  <strong>When your raid is AOE'ing that many mobs and you pop Defile at the right point I was doing anywhere from 60k to 70k in damage, sometimes behind only our Warlock as far as damage is concerned.  Hopefully we don't see a bunch of crying because it is VERY situational</strong> ...<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>After making such a claim as this, we will probably DEFINITELY see alot of crying...Oh but wait!  Defile has already been nerfed!  I guess we should go for  an additional nerf by boasting about being 2nd only to Warlocks with our ONE decent dps spell.  </p><p>I have used Defile as well and I do NOT see the kind of damage you describe on yellow/orange mobs. </p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Broomhilda on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:43 AM</span></p>

[NimSul]

<div></div>In PPR i did 1,7k dps as the max on those huge encounters, dont worry they arent going to be any nerfs based on those encounters. Any of you remember the 2k dps post from in there with a 60 fury? no nerf there. And the numerious posts of dps classes doing several k dps at 60. Not to mention the 14k ? parse of a conjuror in there. Relax and dont rip the head of the OP because he thinks its nice he can do crazy dps in those specific encounters. Ive been nr1 on the parses in there, all that tells is that the rest of the raid is slacking.

[Raff]

<div></div><p><span>It's a fun spell for sure. Broom, Ix - relax - someone says something positive and fun and you shoot them down; not exactly much of a welcome committee. I respect your views and appreciate your great work to better our class, but I don't appreciate smothering other posters if they say or comment on something you are uneasy about.</span></p><p><span>There is nothing wrong w/ the OP's comments and there is nothing we have to hide; it is OK to state you have a fun spell that does something special.  For the more paranoid "we are going to get nerf whiners", parses don't lie. If I wanted to really show high DPS numbers - I'd go to PPtR and time Defile just right on a few select encounters. I know I won't hit the same DPS as my guild conjs, necro or other AoE specialists, but I will definitely kick a few scouts butts and easily achieve t2 DPS if I can manage to stack my aoe's before the trash dies. That’s a challenge all in itself.</span></p><p><span>SOE lowered the spell damage because it was a little too potent and was capable of putting us into the tier 1 DPS parses in the right circumstances. Setting the damage lower removed the tier 1 likely hood and made tier 2 achievable - only under very special circumstances. So rarely as to make it more entertaining than game changing. Which is fine by me as the spell still has its uses soloing and small grouping and will rarely break t3 dps in those situations - which is where it should be for a healer doing normal game play. The recast timers insure it won't be taken advantage of too often either.</span></p><p><font face="Times New Roman" color="#000000" size="3"></font> </p><p>Message Edited by Raffta on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:53 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Raffta on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:54 AM</span></p>

[Daayz]

<div></div><div>I get the same effects as Nimsul. on the huge groups in PPR i was getting 1400DPS + fairly consistantly (after nerf). The mobs are green and there is a ton of them though (wizard hit 2400 dps normally in those fights). This spell is extremely situational, to the point i actually tend not to use it tas often as i probably could. but it can churn out a ton of dps in the right situation so its not completely worthless. I also use it when trying to clear a space to harvest i pull 3-4 encounters of low blue down arrows or green mobs get them all in the yellow and hit this killing all the mobs at the same time giving me more time to harvest before they repop. I did feel the nerf, and would love for them to unnerf it, but its not the end of the world.</div>

[Broomhilda]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Raffta wrote:<div></div><p><span>It's a fun spell for sure. Broom, Ix - relax - someone says something positive and fun and you shoot them down; not exactly much of a welcome committee. I respect your views and appreciate your great work to better our class, but I don't appreciate smothering other posters if they say or comment on something you are uneasy about.</span></p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>No one's smothering anybody or "shooting them down".  I'm simply asking for realism.  I have never seen the type of DPS amounts that the OP described when using Defile.   If one is to make such a claim, I only ask that it be backed up with some parse evidence.  There are two Defilers in my raiding guild, and neither of us parsed those damage amounts.  Without evidence it looks to be unrealistic.  Anymore do I want to exaggerate our problems do I want to exaggerate the positive aspects.  However I understand that some of us do, that has been a long-standing issue in the Defiler community for over a year and IMHO has been a leading factor in having our issues ignored. </p><p>And if short-term memory does serve, many people went on and on about how great Defile was....and it got nerfed.   So tell me how can someone be "paranoid" about something that has ALREADY come to pass?   :smileyvery-happy:</p><p>This is my opinion of such posts and I expressed it.  Say and do as you wish, its a free country. </p><p>Good day! :smileyhappy:</p>

[Jakoi]

<div></div>Before freaking out and claiming it was unreal, or not realistic did you even read the post?  Yes we went in with a small raid force (little over two groups, just working on getting another ring).  Yes, Defile was nerfed last week.  My point is against THESE specific mobs it is STILL fun.  My god people like to whine just for the sake of whining.  Did I say MY GOD WE ARE UBER, no I said boy it was fun that for a couple yard trash encounters we actually made a blip on the raid DPS window.  Did I claim to consistantly out DPS folks, I said ONE TIME (prolly when others were slacking).  Defile still has very little use if any against 90% of the raid content. These are extremely green mobs and a TON of them in oen close area. I didn't get the Master 1 version till after the nerf so maybe we did even more damage against yard trash before but any idiot who cries for a nerf because we can help kill a couple yard trash mobs faster then others is just that.. an idiot. Being paranoid about every little post, or someone expressing that they enjoyed a spell actually functioning correctly isn't going to further any actual fixes we need for other spells.  If we can't say anything good about our class anymore for fears of a cry of a nerf then maybe they should just rename the class boards "Defiler Whining Board", "Mystic Whining Board".  I'll complain as loudly as the next person when something of ours is actually broken but to complain that someone is pointing out something NICE about one of our spells is pretty ridiculous.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Jakoi on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:37 PM</span></p>

[sntr]

<div>Think the point here is how the devs seem to work.  For the 20 others that were unhappy with how our class works, devs would pop by only to see your 1 post and go, "Wow, see someone's happy with it... we did good".  From trolling these boards and seeing problems unfixed, think this can actually have an effect on it.  There is no level ground to where our community is in agreement.  I don't use the spell too much due to the range, cast time, and reuse time.  I could care less about DPS because I rolled a healer because I'm a healer.  On the other hand, our most effective heal/ward abilities are bugged at the moment which has got me more concerned.  Plenty of other spells are either bugged or not proc'ing correctly as well, in which there still has been no responce.  Boasting about our DPS, no matter your intentions, just fuels the fire for other classes who have a better audience of devs than us.</div><div> </div><div>-rou</div>

[Broomhilda]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Jakoi wrote:<div></div>Being paranoid about every little post, or someone expressing that they enjoyed a spell actually functioning correctly isn't going to further any actual fixes we need for other spells.  If we can't say anything good about our class anymore for fears of a cry of a nerf then maybe they should just rename the class boards "Defiler Whining Board", "Mystic Whining Board".  I'll complain as loudly as the next person when something of ours is actually broken but to complain that someone is pointing out something NICE about one of our spells is pretty ridiculous.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Jakoi on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:37 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>You like to throw around the "whine" accusation alot.  I guess that post that Ixnay and I made on S& C is nothing but a "whine" also?  My class has legitamate concerns, maybe YOU don't care about them, but I do.  If thats called whining, guess what?  Too dam bad.  I will speak about about my classes issues whether you like it or not.  If your happy with the class as it is now, more power to you, stop trying to put the rest of us down for wanting to make change.</p><p>You made a claim of a certain amount of damage, and coming in 2nd to your guild warlock.  As far as I'm concerned thats not realistic.  I AM a defiler, I have Defile, and I have NEVER seen such damage done with that spell.  I challenge what your saying and ask for parse evidence and I'm now accused of being a whiner?  Your joking me right?  Your 2nd claim is paranoia.  Again I will ask, how can someone be paranoid about something that has already come to pass?  Defile WAS nerfed...they aren't thinking about it, planning on it, maybe considering it...IT WAS DONE!  How is that paranoia?  Its called reality.  And Insofar as "being paranoid about every little post" thats another joke.  I dont  post on the Defiler boards half as much as I used to because I became sick of the loud-mouth boasters, doing absolutely nothing for the class.   </p><p>No one was "complaining" about something being "nice".  Someone challenged your claim and reminded you that exaggerated claims may have bad consequences.  You obviously didn't like that.  Plain and simple.</p>

[Jakoi]

That's what your not getting.  It wasn't a LOOK HOW UBER WE ARE post, it was a BOY THAT WAS FUN post.  I must've missed the memo where you can't post anything positive on the boards anymore or the Dev's won't look at your class board.  People complained and rightfully so that our wards were broken for 9 months, did the Dev's not respond?  No they don't fix it immediately because we are probably one of the lowest played healers, REGARDLESS of what is posted on our boards.   Our group stun cure has been broken since it went in game and I've read probably fifty posts that it was broken and not a one about how great it is, haven't seen it fixed yet.Defile is a fun spell, if you don't like or don't use it that's fine.  For those of us who do all the more beneficial to us.  I use it whenever I can safely during group settings and whenever we are fighting low level stuff like COAA, GOAA, or PPR because the risk involved is very minimal and I'm not nearly as busy doing our actual job (warding/debuffing).   This is a reason a LOT of people don't visit the boards, because anything said positive just gets twisted into an argument.<div></div>

[Jakoi]

Did I save the parse, nope? Did I cite the exact mobs where it occured and there were others in this thread who said they saw exceptional damage vs. the same mobs... yes.  I'm not saying that we don't have legitimate gripes.  I was pushing for a fix to defile or a spell with Bolster's significance just a hard as anyone else when the expansion was released.  There have been a LOT of people saying we need certain things fixed that are legitimate.  I never said "Our DPS is better then X" I said on this fight, it was amazing to see how high our DPS could go, it was second to our Warlocks.  When you are used to your DPS not even registering, it was fun to see it register.  I'm sorry you haven't been into PPR since the mobs are severely green and tested this out yourself, I suggest you do so it can be fun, especially if your whole raid AOE's and most of the mobs are 30-50% health at the same time.As much griping and groaning as goes on with the boards I figured it'd be nice to share something fun that happened glad I learned that lesson.<div></div>

[Raff]

<div></div><blockquote dir="ltr"><p>broomhilda-</p><p>And if short-term memory does serve, many people went on and on about how great Defile was....and it got nerfed.   So tell me how can someone be "paranoid" about something that has ALREADY come to pass?   <img height="16" width="16" border="0" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif"></p><p>__________________________________________________ _____</p></blockquote><p>It was nerfed because of what I stated in my post regarding it's potency; had nothing to do w/ people bragging about it. I firmly believe the devs take a non-objective view of these matters and base decisions based off data and balance objectives they have set as goals to design to. What more likely happened is they rushed the fix to defile to satisfy our whining, and then went back to review the data to balance the spell. For that you should be thankfull they worked to resolve an outstanding release bug and accomodated us w/ a working spell by the time most of us achieved the appropriate level to use it.</p><p> </p><p>Also may I remind you, I stood firmly behind this spell in the beta phase even thoug many of you more outspoken & passionate community activists argued its value, thought it unspeakable healers have DPS spells like this and envied the Bolster mystics got something that would end our class as a raider.</p><p>Roll forward to today:</p><p>My defiler is back in the MT group (and I don't care), mystics are now capable of buffing the tank in any raid group w/ a less capable Bolster (sorry mystics, I'd like to have seen it in action pre-nerf before forming an opinion about it; to bad I couldn't) and all the defilers seem to have taken a strong fondness to our defile spell, even in it's nerfed state.</p><p>Let's not flatter ourselves and think our whining or "activism" has lead to any change. Had it, we'd have seen a dev post on it. Instead, I offer the devs likely ignore most of these rants and do what they believe is right by their design goals. Where they can, they do listen to our feedback and perhaps stack rank a bug a little higher on the release cycle to accomodate our woes.</p><p> </p>

[Broomhilda]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Raffta wrote:<div></div><blockquote dir="ltr">Let's not flatter ourselves and think our whining or "activism" has lead to any change. Had it, we'd have seen a dev post on it. Instead, I offer the devs likely ignore most of these rants and do what they believe is right by their design goals. Where they can, they do listen to our feedback and perhaps stack rank a bug a little higher on the release cycle to accomodate our woes.</blockquote><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>Your joking?   Devs do indeed look at feedback and "whining" as you love to call it.  Look at the warden directs.  Was corrected in a matter of weeks.  Lets examine the Cleric reactive issues.  Again, fixed in a matter of weeks.  Why?  they screamed in unison to high heaven, thats why.  The problem is the fact that for every "whiner" in the Defiler community there was a braggert yelling about How Uber we be.  Our community has a history of conflicting information and feedback coupled with the fact that we are one of the least played healer classes and lack representation.  Thats why we get ignored whereas other healer classes get fixed. </p><p>Good attempt at trying to belittle our work Raffta, its Defilers like yourself that have nothing to contribute that always say how useless "whining" is.   Short of flying out to SOE and staging a hunger strike in thier customer service office, what exactly are we supposed to do about our issues  other than complain/bug/post and hope that we get recognition in some way?  Got a better suggestion genius?  I think not.</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Broomhilda on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:54 PM</span></p>

[MalkorGodchyld]

<div></div><p><font size="2">       Its just a sore moment for the class is all   (with the many issues & lack of attention)  ...that post was harped on & the reason why is understandable if it was exaggerated.     Yes devs & reps DO read posts & yes one post CAN shift an attitude or speed a fix or whatever the case may be.   ( thats the whole reason these boards exist )    If feedback was useless they wouldnt have boards at all so lets just throw that one right out the window shall we.    </font></p><p><font size="2">    And i also agree that the community is less likely to get anything done to help the class if we're not unified.     Personally i could care less about our Dog & Defile too but being realistic i  try & post about improvement ideas because its more in line with what the community seems to agree on.    If the <strong>goal</strong> is for a fix<strong> </strong>or an improvement...thats the surest way to go about it.      And to the OP...there have been plenty of posts about enjoyment on the Defiler boards with positive responses so dont take this to heart dude.</font></p><p><font size="2">                                                                                 Peace</font></p><p><font size="2"></font> </p><p><font size="2">~ Marius  Darkchyld ~   59 Defiler</font></p><p><font size="2">     * Talisman *            Nagafen</font></p><p><font size="2">     </font></p>

[MilkToa]

<div><blockquote><hr>Raffta wrote:<div></div><blockquote dir="ltr"><p>broomhilda-</p><p>And if short-term memory does serve, many people went on and on about how great Defile was....and it got nerfed.   So tell me how can someone be "paranoid" about something that has ALREADY come to pass?   <img height="16" width="16" border="0" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif"></p><p>__________________________________________________ _____</p></blockquote><p>It was nerfed because of what I stated in my post regarding it's potency; had nothing to do w/ people bragging about it. I firmly believe the devs take a non-objective view of these matters and base decisions based off data and balance objectives they have set as goals to design to. What more likely happened is they rushed the fix to defile to satisfy our whining, and then went back to review the data to balance the spell. For that you should be thankfull they worked to resolve an outstanding release bug and accomodated us w/ a working spell by the time most of us achieved the appropriate level to use it.</p><p> </p><p>Also may I remind you, I stood firmly behind this spell in the beta phase even thoug many of you more outspoken & passionate community activists argued its value, thought it unspeakable healers have DPS spells like this and envied the Bolster mystics got something that would end our class as a raider.</p><p>Roll forward to today:</p><p>My defiler is back in the MT group (and I don't care), mystics are now capable of buffing the tank in any raid group w/ a less capable Bolster (sorry mystics, I'd like to have seen it in action pre-nerf before forming an opinion about it; to bad I couldn't) and all the defilers seem to have taken a strong fondness to our defile spell, even in it's nerfed state.</p><p>Let's not flatter ourselves and think our whining or "activism" has lead to any change. Had it, we'd have seen a dev post on it. Instead, I offer the devs likely ignore most of these rants and do what they believe is right by their design goals. Where they can, they do listen to our feedback and perhaps stack rank a bug a little higher on the release cycle to accomodate our woes.</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>Lol, seems like you don't mind flattering yourself.</div><div> </div>

[Raff]

<div></div><blockquote dir="ltr"><blockquote><hr>Raffta wrote:<div></div><blockquote dir="ltr">Let's not flatter ourselves and think our whining or "activism" has lead to any change. Had it, we'd have seen a dev post on it. Instead, I offer the devs likely ignore most of these rants and do what they believe is right by their design goals. Where they can, they do listen to our feedback and perhaps stack rank a bug a little higher on the release cycle to accomodate our woes.</blockquote><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>Broomhilda wrote:</p><p>Your joking?   Devs do indeed look at feedback and "whining" as you love to call it.  Look at the warden directs.  Was corrected in a matter of weeks.  Lets examine the Cleric reactive issues.  Again, fixed in a matter of weeks.  Why?  they screamed in unison to high heaven, thats why.  The problem is the fact that for every "whiner" in the Defiler community there was a braggert yelling about How Uber we be.  Our community has a history of conflicting information and feedback coupled with the fact that we are one of the least played healer classes and lack representation.  Thats why we get ignored whereas other healer classes get fixed. </p><p>Good attempt at trying to belittle our work Raffta, its Defilers like yourself that have nothing to contribute that always say how useless "whining" is.   Short of flying out to SOE and staging a hunger strike in thier customer service office, what exactly are we supposed to do about our issues  other than complain/bug/post and hope that we get recognition in some way?  Got a better suggestion genius?  I think not.</p><p>_______________________________</p></blockquote><p><span>I don't believe I associated any particular individual when I referenced "whiner". That you are sensitive to this comment suggest you have some insecurity there. I do believe and stated as such, I have great respect and appreciation for the work you and Ixnay have done to consolidate our spell lists issues and submit the feedback. I commented that I agreed w/ them, and posted feedback regarding my thoughts on logging in a separate thread for your review and potential addendum on your formal post. If there is any one thread the release managers and dev's would look at, it would be that thread. The threads w/ rants (like this one) would no doubt be ignored. You stand corrected regarding your comments, which were directly derogative of me, that I view these efforts as whining and that I add no input or contribution. I reference "whining" as the arguments many make are arguments of childeren who aren't mature enough to understand issues from varying perspectives. I too have been a bit of a whiner in the past and on these boards no doubt.</span></p><p><span>It is an exaggeration to state our class is broken at this time. We are not, we are very competent healers and our most concerning issues have been addressed. We do have some spells that are not as effective as we believe they could be, others that don’t appear to proc as often as they should and some spells we just don't value. It's important to keep a grounded perspective on our issues.</span></p><p><span>While your efforts are appreciated, let me remind you, you are not the sole voice of the defiler community and your opinions on topics are not necessarily representative of the rest of the community. You are also not the forum moderator and this is an open board for all players, views alike and with difference.</span></p><p><span>I'd also like to offer you additional feedback to help you and our class resolve these remaining issues. Write more maturely and work on being less confrontational. Readers (other players and devs alike) will respect your efforts more and associate more credibility with your posts. Comments like "Short of flying out to SOE and staging a hunger strike in their customer service office," serve no purpose and expose an immaturity that turns away your average reader. Remove the melodramatics from your posts, stick to facts and data and offer opinions in a manner that are suggestive instead of dictate. Even in this thread, you are whining and to no point other than making a poster that wanted to share something he thought was fun and cool feel disgruntled. For all of your good intention, you take away your credibility with one thread.</span></p><p><span>Regards, FYI... I have played since launch day and I am a serious raider. I have 2 alts, a lvl 70 brigand and a lvl 54 (soon to be grinded to 70) guardian and of course my main, the defiler.</span></p><p> </p>

[Broomhilda]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Raffta wrote:<div></div><blockquote dir="ltr"><p><span>I don't believe I associated any particular individual when I referenced "whiner". That you are sensitive to this comment suggest you have some insecurity there. I do believe and stated as such, I have great respect and appreciation for the work you and Ixnay have done to consolidate our spell lists issues and submit the feedback. I commented that I agreed w/ them, and posted feedback regarding my thoughts on logging in a separate thread for your review and potential addendum on your formal post. If there is any one thread the release managers and dev's would look at, it would be that thread. The threads w/ rants (like this one) would no doubt be ignored. You stand corrected regarding your comments, which were directly derogative of me, that I view these efforts as whining and that I add no input or contribution. I reference "whining" as the arguments many make are arguments of childeren who aren't mature enough to understand issues from varying perspectives. I too have been a bit of a whiner in the past and on these boards no doubt.</span></p><p><span><font color="#ffff00">Sorry if you and I can't agree on what childish is but imo the only person here displaying imaturity is you.  You who have contributed nothing other than lip service, basically told us that posting our concerns is a waste of time and then purport to then tell me how I should post and in what way.  This demonstrates to me your trifling, petty and completely misguided concerns.  This is about getting our issues addresses not listening to nonsense.  I am still waiting for the "better" suggestion in getting them addressed from You!  Where is it?  Be an adult and please share your wisdom with us.   </font></span></p></blockquote><p><span>It is an exaggeration to state our class is broken at this time. We are not, we are very competent healers and our most concerning issues have been addressed. We do have some spells that are not as effective as we believe they could be, others that don’t appear to proc as often as they should and some spells we just don't value. It's important to keep a grounded perspective on our issues.</span></p><p><span><font color="#ffff00">Who said the class was broken?  Stop putting words in peoples mouths and telling me things that I already know.  The class has several important issues that need to be addressed.</font></span></p><p><span>While your efforts are appreciated, let me remind you, you are not the sole voice of the defiler community and your opinions on topics are not necessarily representative of the rest of the community. You are also not the forum moderator and this is an open board for all players, views alike and with difference.</span></p><p><span><font color="#ffff00">Lol, who said I was the "voice " of the Defiler community.  Did not I get "feedback" from the community on our issues Before posting on the main S&C thread?  Check out "State of the Defiler" where I clearly spelled out what I was trying to do and invited community participation. I simply put everyones concerns together in one thread and then Ixnay detailed it and filled it out.   Forum moderator?  lol, I have better things to do.  </font></span></p><p><span>I'd also like to offer you additional feedback to help you and our class resolve these remai</span><span>ning issues. Write more maturely and work on being less confrontational. Readers (other players and devs alike) will respect your efforts more and associate more credibility with your posts. Comments like "Short of flying out to SOE and staging a hunger strike in their customer service office," serve no purpose and expose an immaturity that turns away your average reader. Remove the melodramatics from your posts, stick to facts and data and offer opinions in a manner that are suggestive instead of dictate. Even in this thread, you are whining and to no point other than making a poster that wanted to share something he thought was fun and cool feel disgruntled. For all of your good intention, you take away your credibility with one thread.</span></p><p><span><font color="#ffff00">I could truly care less what you respect or do not.  SOE has demonstrated very little respect for many of its paying customers already, so quite frankly, what else is new?  Insofar as my "credibility" lol, that is not questioned.  Your credibility has YET to be established, so please spare me!  Keep saying that in the hopes that you will come to beleive it.  Your not part of the solution, your part of the problem.  Apathetic attitudes (ie: posting does nothing) with NO offer of a solution (more apathy and pure laziness).  I will challenge again:  What do you suggest we do since, by your own admission, you state posting is useless in getting our issues addressed?  Please do tell!  Take the mature route and instead of just offering a critique, offer a SOLUTION!  Oh and by the way, stop "dictating" to me whether or not I should dictate. Pure hypocrisy!  </font></span></p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Broomhilda on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:16 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Broomhilda on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:16 PM</span></p>

[Swishwah]

<div></div><p>Well to be quite honest here I also parsed a warlock the other night whilst grouped with a Bruiser and the Warlock and I out DPS'ed him.  I was like 'Whooo!!!  Check that!!!  Suck it in mate, we finally rock despite the nerf and broken skills!!!' to which he replied 'yeah, sorry bout that, I had to kill an elephant sized cockroach...  Took me a min to find the bugger behind the desk'.</p><p>Sure defile is fun, semi useful though I have to say I'm annoyed at the nerf (for both the nerf and the lack of prior warning from SOE), and a good little damage spell, but I think you had a rather slack warlock in your raid or he was playing with his pre lvl 20 skills....  No offence intended.</p><p>Swishy</p>

[Raff]

<div></div><div>Thanks for highlighting my point better than I could. Well done Broom.</div><div> </div><p> </p><p>maybe you'll add the logging request into the debuff section of your list.</p>

[Ishnar]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Jakoi wrote:Did I save the parse, nope?<div></div><hr></blockquote>then please don't make claims without some evidence to back it up.  Especially unbelievable claims.

[Ixnay]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Raffta wrote:<div></div><blockquote dir="ltr">Also may I remind you, I stood firmly behind this spell in the beta phase even thoug many of you more outspoken & passionate community activists argued its value, thought it unspeakable healers have DPS spells like this and envied the Bolster mystics got something that would end our class as a raider.</blockquote><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>I was in Beta day 1 until release of KoS.  I got buffed to 70 roughly the first week of beta, then got Defile the very first day it became available.  I tried it every day in beta until KoS was released.  It never did more than 1x damage, just one, up to nine ticks.  It never worked properly, nor did anyone have any idea of how it would ultimately work.</p><p>So basically, with Ad 1 defile in beta, I could do just one 72 dmg pulse per tick x 9 ticks TOTAL with high int.  That's it.  It wasn't until several weeks after KoS went live that the spell was fixed or whatever, and we realized that it was a good spell.  Before then, nobody in game, including me or you, had any idea that Defile was intended to be anything more than just an extremely weak dot.</p><p>Just wanted to point that out.</p><p>Message Edited by Ixnay on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:38 PM</span></p>

[Ixnay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Raffta wrote:<div></div><blockquote dir="ltr"><span>While your efforts are appreciated, let me remind you, you are not the sole voice of the defiler community and your opinions on topics are not necessarily representative of the rest of the community. You are also not the forum moderator and this is an open board for all players, views alike and with difference.</span></blockquote><hr></blockquote><p>As I said in my first reply to your post, it's a free world (or mostly), and you are free to post and say what you want.  Neither I nor you are the voice of the defiler community, and we don't speak on behalf of anyone but ourselves. </p><p>All I'm saying is that when posting comments about our class, please be sensitive to how other people may interpret what you say, because others will see you as a representative of this class.  Whenever you have the choice to either be destructive or try and help work toward positive goals, at least I will always appreciate your constructive focus.</p><p>Thank you, and peace.</p>

[jfleming2003]

Quite honestly, I wish all the talk about Defile would just go away until the more important issues with our class get addressed. Sometimes Defile is really cool to have, sometimes it's not. Sometimes it can do tons of dmg, other times it can't.I've shown up on the parse more than once when I've used Defile, but I've never out dps'd the warlocks/wizards or the rangers/assassins, not even the furies. I was always near the bottom of the parse beating out only the bards if the cast was timed right. /shrug maybe my int is really low but either way, Defile doesn't make us a dps class.

[Raff]

<div></div>As I said in my first reply to your post, it's a free world (or mostly), and you are free to post and say what you want.  Neither I nor you are the voice of the defiler community, and we don't speak on behalf of anyone but ourselves. <p>All I'm saying is that when posting comments about our class, please be sensitive to how other people may interpret what you say, because others will see you as a representative of this class.  Whenever you have the choice to either be destructive or try and help work toward positive goals, at least I will always appreciate your constructive focus.</p><p>Thank you, and peace.</p><p>__________________</p><p>Agreed - it's good to be constructive. I also know I'm no voice of the defiler community; its very aparant my opinions are not in the vocal majority <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p><p>Re: the other comment regarding what we thought/knew the DoT would be. You are correct none of us knew and you were the best source of info being in the beta (thanks for posting all the beta data BTW). I did hope it was like the old shammy epic in some form. IMO, it is similar and the spell was just what I'd hoped for. Anyways, take care.</p>