Please fix defile back to how it was

[ajadams]

<div> </div><div>This is at adept 3 with 350 int. =( [Removed for Content] [Removed for Content] and sad. NO I'm not going to accept that we have our single target nuke updated over this. I'd rather have defile.</div><div><img src="http://antoniabayle.org/images/saddefile.jpg"></div>

[maxa]

<div></div><div></div>Ok what is this? A silent nerf? LU21 notes doesnt say a word about changes in Defile spell. Why would you devs need to nerf this spell right after it was fixed? I kindly request explanation on this.I am on Euro server, LU21 didnt hit it yet, ATM Defile is doing 97 damage at M1 with 256 int. I will see what happens tomorrow.<div></div><p>Message Edited by maxa0n on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:04 PM</span></p>

[Zeitgeist]

My master dropped to 65 / hit, from 89 or 90.Ugh.  Wish I didn't waste plat buying it.<div></div>

[Ixnay]

<div></div><p>My master 1 defile dropped from ~96 at ~200 int yesterday to 69 today.  I'm scoring this as a 25 to 30 percent nerf.</p><p>I started a post in the main Spells forum asking whether this nerf was intended or a mistake that will be corrected.</p><p>I think everyone will agree that if they make something worse on purpose, they should at least give notice in the patch notes.</p>

[jfleming2003]

Defile? ROFL! Considering the PULSATING PBAOE I hardly ever use the stupid thing. I didn't even notice the nerf, heh. Not to mention, if you don't time the cast just right, you might as well be throwing your lvl 30 dot.If we're meant to get a DPS spell for marquee, give us a DPS spell. Otherwise give us a nice buff/debuff that we just might actually use.

[sostrows]

<div></div>i detest stealth changes<div></div><p>Message Edited by sostrows on <span class="date_text">03-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:48 PM</span></p>

[krazykaj]

     Ok guys, I saw a post by Blackguard recently that they never intend to "stealth nerf" anything.  The reason it doesn't get into the notes is because he doesn't get all the info after the patch gets all it's adds.  IE. the devs put in like 8 changes and he gets notice of those and then they add a couple more they were able to finish up and put in and he never goes back to get the updated patch information.  He said that it is his fault it happens like that and will try to change in the future patches.I wish I could remember where I saw it linked, but it definitely was linked.<div></div>

[Raff]

<div>Try using a parser and determining what your actual DPS is. I parsed 658dps last night in HoF raid instance, 6 - lvl74^^^x2. I used Aphotic (master), defile (adp3) and maelstrom (master) - I am 20% from lvl70 and can't wait for the new AOE DoT. None of the DoT's lasted full duration. Conj's were at 1400-1600, most scouts were in the 600's. I made top 5 DPS chart. Note, most scouts tend to get lazy in these aoe encounters as they go fast and the AOE nukers do most the work.</div><div> </div><div>DPS varried depending on the grp mix, I.E a named in the mob grp that stays up longer changing fight duration. I can easily hit 300-800 DPS depending on the size of the encounter and and average HP of mobs.</div><div> </div><div>If anyone wants parses, let me know... I can easily save them, but usually don't. IMO, defile is balanced and our AE DPS is set just about right. If defile were higher damage, we would be overpowered DPS for a healer. Would I like it higher and back to what it was, sure I would. Would I expect to get tons of complaints if I was breaking 1k DPS, absolutely. It's working well and balanced proper as is.</div>

[Lockeye]

<div></div><p>It looks like Defile was in a state where it the final balance adjustments did not go live with the changes to how Defile works. This would explain why there were no release notes to indicate the change, because the current numbers were assumed to have been there since the initial changes to Defile went live, so no 'nerf' should have even happened in the first place. The numbers that you currently see on Defile are the intended amounts of damage that was assumed to have been there in the first place.</p>

[Broomhilda]

<div></div>Wow, finally after weeks...an answer.  Of sorts. 

[Sokolov]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Lockeye wrote:<div></div><p>It looks like Defile was in a state where it the final balance adjustments did not go live with the changes to how Defile works. This would explain why there were no release notes to indicate the change, because the current numbers were assumed to have been there since the initial changes to Defile went live, so no 'nerf' should have even happened in the first place. The numbers that you currently see on Defile are the intended amounts of damage that was assumed to have been there in the first place.</p><hr></blockquote>So... the number was 12, but got changed to 10, but the person who changed it to 10 realized it should've been 10 to begin with so it was assumed that it was never ever 12 at all?This is just like the Necro thing apparently!</span></div>

[Nainitsuj]

<div></div>And these people are allowed to run a business.  Any other industry and they would have died by now.

[Jas]

Thank you for at least replying, even if it wasn't what we wanted to hear. =)<div></div>

[Simpdad]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Nainitsuj wrote:<div></div>And these people are allowed to run a business.  Any other industry and they would have died by now.<hr></blockquote><div>OMG thats Hot!!!</div><div> </div><div>Yes they need some sort of regulation immediately, they cant get away with this anymore. Get right on that Nainitsuj. Heres a suggestion</div><div> </div><div>National</div><div>Everquest</div><div>Regulatory</div><div>Foundation</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Gwide]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Lockeye wrote:<div></div><p>It looks like Defile was in a state where it the final balance adjustments did not go live with the changes to how Defile works. This would explain why there were no release notes to indicate the change, because the current numbers were assumed to have been there since the initial changes to Defile went live, so no 'nerf' should have even happened in the first place. The numbers that you currently see on Defile are the intended amounts of damage that was assumed to have been there in the first place.</p><hr></blockquote><blockquote><hr>From Office Space:<div></div><p>BOB PORTERI looked into it more deeply and I found what happened was he got layed off about five years ago and no one ever told him about it. But through a glitch in Payroll, he still gets a paycheck. I went ahead and fixed the glitch.</p><p>BILLGreat.</p><p>DOMSo, um, Milton has been let go.</p><p>BOB SLYDELLJust a second there, Professor. We, uh, we fixed the glitch. So he won't be receiving a paycheck anymore. So it'll just work itself out naturally.</p><p>BOB PORTERWe always like to avoid confrontation whenever possible. The problem is solved from here on, then.</p><p>They laugh.</p><hr><p> </p></blockquote>

[Raff]

<div></div><blockquote dir="ltr"><p><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=72348" target="_blank"><span>Lockeye</span></a></p><p>It looks like Defile was in a state where it the final balance adjustments did not go live with the changes to how Defile works. This would explain why there were no release notes to indicate the change, because the current numbers were assumed to have been there since the initial changes to Defile went live, so no 'nerf' should have even happened in the first place. The numbers that you currently see on Defile are the intended amounts of damage that was assumed to have been there in the first place.</p><p></p><div>===========================Jared SweattEverQuest II Spells and Combat Designer</div><p>__________________________________</p></blockquote><p>Thanks for taking the time to comment, Jared. I appreciate your team getting the spell working and proping it out to us when you did. Once I parsed it before the adjustment, I thought it seemed a little potent ;^)</p>

[Broomhilda]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Nainitsuj wrote:<div></div>And these people are allowed to run a business.  Any other industry and they would have died by now.<hr></blockquote><p>Agreed!  If I did that in my business my clients would walk right out the door and go elsewhere.  Hummm, wait a minute!  Thats whats happening here too! lol!</p><p>I love the ommission of "We apologize for any incovenience or misunderstanding, bla bla".  Guess they dont want to apologize for anything.  Could be held against them in the future.  :smileywink:</p><p> </p>

[Elerri]

Are the recent changes to ward behaviour also final balance adjustments that were supposed to be in game since LU13, too? Or why are we not hearing anything from you about those either?Don't care about the Defiler change btw, I am however concerned about our ability to protect our group which got lessened by dots going through wards, crits not affecting wards, etc

[argsix]

This is the problem with defilers...  we finaly get a dev responce saying defile was ment to suck, and we all say thank you![expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] people?  Our class defining spell is SUPOSED to suck?  69 damage a tick with 350 int?  [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is that?  Woopty doo... you can now [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] some grey mobes... maybe a green one if your lucky!Now I understand that the spell is AE so potentialy it could be very good... but lets examine that for a second:Where in the game do you find large enough numbers of mobs that would be at least blue (read worth killing) to a lvl 65...The only thing I can think of is if you pulled multiple groups.  Now what happens if you defile multiple groups?  Through experimentation I have learned that if they are A:  unmoded or lower they die quickly and all is happy. or B.  one ^ or higher, you get agro and die, and all is not happy.  or... C they are all ^^^ and they laugh at you cause you barly did any damage and then procede to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] your party because not many except those very well equiped can handle more than 3-4 ^^^ at once.Now the only place i have found this to be practicly usefull is the hatchery in palace of awakend.  Defilers can rule that little room!  Go us, but realy... is that all we were ment to do with this spell?<div></div>

[Argyuile]

<div>If it was broken and now its fixed please re-break it back to usefull thanks.</div>

[Ixnay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Lockeye wrote:<div></div><p>It looks like Defile was in a state where it the final balance adjustments did not go live with the changes to how Defile works. This would explain why there were no release notes to indicate the change, because the current numbers were assumed to have been there since the initial changes to Defile went live, so no 'nerf' should have even happened in the first place. The numbers that you currently see on Defile are the intended amounts of damage that was assumed to have been there in the first place.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Thank you for the response, I sincerely appreciate it.</p><p>It's hard anytime you really like something and then lose part of it.  But I can move on, and I still like the spell and am glad to have it, especially with the master version, high int, and a fully disease debuffed group of mobs.</p><p>I only speak for myself, but I think the Defiler community should accept this, move on, and work on getting the rest of our bug list looked into.  A couple items on our bug list that have been broken since original release of EQ2 would mean real progress, and real benefits for our class.</p>

[Ixnay]

<div>By the way folks, I understand people have differing views about this, but in my experience, the best way to get devs to interact with us is to not be hostile towards them.</div><div> </div><div>Just a suggestion <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>Thanks</div>

[Korpo]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>argsix wrote:Our class defining spell is SUPOSED to suck?<div></div><hr></blockquote>Your class wasn't defined until level 65 and two expansions? Further, a healing class' "class defining spell" is a damage spell?</span></div>

[Jas]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>argsix wrote:This is the problem with defilers...  we finaly get a dev responce saying defile was ment to suck, and we all say thank you![expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] people?  Our class defining spell is SUPOSED to suck?  69 damage a tick with 350 int?  [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is that?  Woopty doo... you can now [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] some grey mobes... maybe a green one if your lucky!Now I understand that the spell is AE so potentialy it could be very good... but lets examine that for a second:Where in the game do you find large enough numbers of mobs that would be at least blue (read worth killing) to a lvl 65...The only thing I can think of is if you pulled multiple groups.  Now what happens if you defile multiple groups?  Through experimentation I have learned that if they are A:  unmoded or lower they die quickly and all is happy. or B.  one ^ or higher, you get agro and die, and all is not happy.  or... C they are all ^^^ and they laugh at you cause you barly did any damage and then procede to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] your party because not many except those very well equiped can handle more than 3-4 ^^^ at once.Now the only place i have found this to be practicly usefull is the hatchery in palace of awakend.  Defilers can rule that little room!  Go us, but realy... is that all we were ment to do with this spell?<div></div><hr></blockquote>First off, yeah.  We can't complain about the devs ignoring us and then when a dev actually posts, complain that he didn't say what we wanted to hear.  Most of the frustration, for me at least, was not knowing if it was intended or a bug - and we actually got a decent explanation of where things went wrong.Second, I don't see what the difference between 69 and 90 damage would be in any of the situations you describe.  Any time that 69 damage is worthless, chances are 90 damage is gonna be, too.  I've found Defile to be moderately useful - not INCREDIBLE, and not worthless.  It can be really nice when grouped with a conjuror - they get some nasty AOEs, but are kinda limited on recharge timers and have a period when they kinda putter out and are waiting.  Having Defile running after they have dropped 3 AOEs can easily finish of a group of heroics and leave them ready for the next pull.  I even had a situation in HoF where the first named (I forget his name) and his group spiked some nasty damage right before my group ward landed, and pasted the tank.  Well, I had ward up, they were almost dead - I hit Defile and finished them off where just my wards may have not gotten the job done.  It also is really handy soloing - MAN do we need damage and Defile can do the job there if you are just name sniping or working on quests.It's not the end all, be all - but I'll take Defile every day of the week and twice on Sundays compared to junk like Crystallize Soul or Ghostly Avenger.</span></div>

[Sokolov]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Lockeye wrote:<div></div><p>This would explain why there were no release notes to indicate the change....</p><hr></blockquote>I have been trying to make logical sense of this for a couple days now, and I just can't.  Can <i>ANYONE</i> explain to me what logic is being used here by Lockeye?</span></div>

[Raff]

<div></div><blockquote dir="ltr"><blockquote><hr>Lockeye wrote:<div></div><p>This would explain why there were no release notes to indicate the change....</p><hr></blockquote><p>I have been trying to make logical sense of this for a couple days now, and I just can't.  Can <i>ANYONE</i> explain to me what logic is being used here by Lockeye?</p><p>_______</p></blockquote><p>What I think he is saying... The defile fix origionally did not have the DPS set correctly when it was shipped/patched (meaning it is higher than what was intended). They also never set it deliberately lower in the subsequent patches, so they did not note it in the release notes.</p><p>What likely happeed (all speculation on my part), is the origional fix shipped the build that didnt have the lower DPS and it should have. Somehow in the code tree for the later releases the proper code (w/ lower DPS) was propped to the source tree. Basically a mistake. Likely the person who owned the code checked in the version that only the fix defile and not the code that had the combat adjustment done on the test server. He probably put the fix on test, validated it worked, then edited it to have the DPS adjustment they wanted. Once done, checked into the final release code tree the one that did not have the combat adjustment. In the next release, the proper build was included in the tree.</p><p>They didn't catch it in the release notes as it wasn't an intended adjustment of the release - I can forgive a mistake. Let's hope the dev's learn something from it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p>

[Sokolov]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Raffta wrote:<div></div><blockquote dir="ltr"><blockquote><hr>Lockeye wrote:<div></div><p>This would explain why there were no release notes to indicate the change....</p><hr></blockquote><p>I have been trying to make logical sense of this for a couple days now, and I just can't.  Can <i>ANYONE</i> explain to me what logic is being used here by Lockeye?</p><p>_______</p></blockquote><p>What I think he is saying... The defile fix origionally did not have the DPS set correctly when it was shipped/patched (meaning it is higher than what was intended). They also never set it deliberately lower in the subsequent patches, so they did not note it in the release notes.</p><p>What likely happeed (all speculation on my part), is the origional fix shipped the build that didnt have the lower DPS and it should have. Somehow in the code tree for the later releases the proper code (w/ lower DPS) was propped to the source tree. Basically a mistake. Likely the person who owned the code checked in the version that only the fix defile and not the code that had the combat adjustment done on the test server. He probably put the fix on test, validated it worked, then edited it to have the DPS adjustment they wanted. Once done, checked into the final release code tree the one that did not have the combat adjustment. In the next release, the proper build was included in the tree.</p><p>They didn't catch it in the release notes as it wasn't an intended adjustment of the release - I can forgive a mistake. Let's hope the dev's learn something from it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>That is still not a good explanation of why there isn't an update note, imo.  It also sounds scary in that it seems to indicate that any programmer can change any number of things and not have it show up anywhere as only intended changes are "caught."</span></div>

[Raff]

<div>Aye, if my "speculation" is correct, they have some release processes to beef up. But, that's clearly my speculation. Human error will happen and these folks are probably like most of us, overworked, under paid and under appreciated.  I'm glad the dev commented,. at least he spoke up - fessed up to the mistake and let us know they do read these posts. I appreciate that more than than anything.</div>

[Sokolov]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>Raffta wrote:<div>Aye, if my "speculation" is correct, they have some release processes to beef up. But, that's clearly my speculation. Human error will happen and these folks are probably like most of us, overworked, under paid and under appreciated.  I'm glad the dev commented,. at least he spoke up - fessed up to the mistake and let us know they do read these posts. I appreciate that more than than anything.</div><hr></blockquote>Well, I guess that's my problem, Lockeye wasn't fessin' up.  The way he worded things it was kind of like, "It was always supposed to be like that, so we don't have to tell you if we fix it."  Maybe I am just being cynical.But I do otherwise appreciate the response too!</span></div><p>Message Edited by Sokolov on <span class="date_text">04-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:42 PM</span></p>

[Randell44]

Ya know, with all the people foaming at the mouth for a chance to rip at the devs, it's a wonder they respond at all sometimes.  There are bigger things to get worked up about.Try girls for instance, or for girls....guys <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  THAT can give you plenty that's actually WORTH getting worked up about.I suppose insults and insinuations about the developers of a game your apparently like is a better use of your time though.<div></div>

[Raff]

<div>Try girls for instance, or for girls....guys <img border="0" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif" width="16" height="16">.  THAT can give you plenty that's actually WORTH getting worked up about.</div><div>________________________</div><div> </div><div>I'd love to try girls, unfortunately my wife takes issues w/ that <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Great point !</div>

[Ixnay]

<div>Lockeye said the previous version of Defile was higher than it was supposed to be based on a mistake.  He's a straight up guy, and I believe him.  I can't fault someone for correcting a mistake.</div><div> </div><div>They have been working on other fixes also, you'll see.</div><div> </div><div>Wards will be fixed as part of LU 22, if the fix isn't patched in before that.  This just hasn't been announced yet in the Test update notes.</div>

[Swishwah]

<div></div><p>Yeah, it's a wonder the Devs actually post at all with some of the responses in this thread.  I'm not saying I like the wording nor the response itself, but glad we finally got a reply of sorts.</p><p>As for wards being fixed in LU22, all I can say is AWESOME!!!  About time (how many months has this been broken) but appreciate the final love!</p>

[Ishnar]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ixnay wrote:<div>Lockeye said the previous version of Defile was higher than it was supposed to be based on a mistake.  He's a straight up guy, and I believe him.  I can't fault someone for correcting a mistake.</div><div> </div><div>They have been working on other fixes also, you'll see.</div><div> </div><div>Wards will be fixed as part of LU 22, if the fix isn't patched in before that.  This just hasn't been announced yet in the Test update notes.</div><hr></blockquote>Is this news from a PM or from a thread somewhere I missed?

[Randell44]

This is what happens when you don't read at least the 1st page of a thread.  Now go to page 1 and look for the red name.<div></div>

[Ishnar]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Randell44 wrote:This is what happens when you don't read at least the 1st page of a thread. <div></div><hr></blockquote><p>This entire thread is only one page.  We still are well short of 50 posts.</p><p>Let's see if I can simplify this for my logic challenged friend. </p><blockquote><hr><p>Ixnay wrote:</p><div>Lockeye said the previous version of Defile was higher than it was supposed to be based on a mistake. </div><div> </div><div><font color="#ff0000">Was answered above so is obviously not the subject of my question.</font></div><div> </div><div> </div><div> He's a straight up guy, and I believe him.  I can't fault someone for correcting a mistake.</div><div> </div><div><font color="#ff0000">Is a personal opinion so it can't be the subject of my question.</font></div><div> </div><div>They have been working on other fixes also, you'll see.</div><div> </div><div><font color="#ff0000">They are always working on fixes, so again can't be the subject.</font></div><div> </div><div>Wards will be fixed as part of LU 22, if the fix isn't patched in before that. </div><div> </div><div><font color="#ff0000">Interesting, where did we hear of this?</font></div><div> </div><div> This just hasn't been announced yet in the Test update notes.</div><div> </div><div><font color="#ff0000">Ahh, this must have prompted my response.</font></div><div> </div><hr></blockquote><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Ishnar on <span class="date_text">04-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:07 PM</span></p>

[Randell44]

My bad this is what I get for making a post while half asleep <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  My own stupidity and my apologies mate.<div></div>

[Ishnar]

<div></div><div></div>I might have been more harsh than I needed to be.  My apologies in return.<p>Message Edited by Ishnar on <span class="date_text">04-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:08 PM</span></p>

[Ixnay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ishnar wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote>Wards will be fixed as part of LU 22, if the fix isn't patched in before that. </blockquote><blockquote><div> </div><div><font color="#ff0000">Interesting, where did we hear of this?</font></div><div> </div><div> This just hasn't been announced yet in the Test update notes.</div><div> </div><div><font color="#ff0000">Ahh, this must have prompted my response.</font></div><div> </div></blockquote><hr></blockquote><p>A very cool new dev is working on wards atm.  Based on private information I haven't received permission to disclose, I learned of improvements that he is working on, that when ready, would remove the ward bug from our issues list, and also add a few nice new minor improvements that have been previously suggested by shaman.</p><p>I don't have any inside infoz, I'm just a regular player like you.  The dev was nice enough to answer a few questions in a post made by Banditman (from the Mystic board) in a private forum that we both access.  Banditman should be credited with proving and defining the ward leaking bug from a shaman perspective.  These improvements should be in LU 22.  I'm only saying this to let people know that someone is working to fix and improve shaman wards at this time, that we aren't being ignored.</p><p>Thanks</p>

[Ishnar]

<div></div>excellent.  Thank you for passing it along.

[Sokolov]

<div><span>So... Ixnay.</span><span>We've been saying and showing Wards have been broken for WEEKs, I have bugged it and I am sure others have... so WHY???</span><span>Are you saying /bug and /feedback and posting on the official boards don't work?  You need to be on some private forum with a "cool dev" to have your issues recognized?That is the lamest thing I've ever heard, even if I am happy that it'll be fixed.</span></div>

[Ixnay]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Sokolov wrote:<div><span>So... Ixnay.</span><span>We've been saying and showing Wards have been broken for WEEKs, I have bugged it and I am sure others have... so WHY???</span><span>Are you saying /bug and /feedback and posting on the official boards don't work?  You need to be on some private forum with a "cool dev" to have your issues recognized?That is the lamest thing I've ever heard, even if I am happy that it'll be fixed.</span></div><hr></blockquote><p>I'm sorry you feel that way.</p><p>I'm saying that /bug and /feedback and posting on the official boards DO work.  And the proof of that is progress on the issues.  Progress that is expected to be seen in LU 22.  Some problems take a long time to troubleshoot and fix, and I understand this problem with wards was like that.  It's because relational software is much more complicated than plumbing, and most of the time there isn't a simple linear solution to a problem.</p><p>I'm also saying that if I was a dev on these public boards, I probably would be like most of them, and wouldn't post either.  Everytime one of them posts, they get attacked and put into a no win situation.  Just look at some of the responses above, including your own.  Can you blame a guy for not wanting to get called out into a debate everytime he works on something and has information to share?  These guys aren't going to get a pay raise, Christmas bonus, or even a handshake from Smed by posting here and answering your questions.  Instead, often all they get is put into an awkward situation and made to look bad by players who believe that because they pay $20 bucks a month to play this game, they are entitled to make demands and have those demands answered by an employee of SoE. </p><p>The people working on different parts of this game are individuals.  The best they can do is each work on one narrow issue at a time.  They can't solve world hunger, and none of them can come close to fixing every problem in this game.  The official representative of SoE for players is Blackguard.  If you want to demand something or are unhappy with the way SoE works in any way, he is the guy you should direct your feedback to.  When you are hostile towards a coder, designer, whoever that wants to be helpful and posts on this board, you can believe that person learned a lesson and probably won't be posting here again.</p><p>And I learned a lesson also.  I'm not going to "leak" anything in the future either.  I'm a simple player just like you, and like I said above, I do not have access to any special favors or inside infoz.  What I try to do is make friends with people, and use positive methods and friendly persuasion to influence changes and improvements, rather than starting out with demands and claims of entitlement.  I sometimes get militant when I believe my issue is important and should recieve higher priority, but I never start with demands, and I never burn bridges or betray confidences.</p><p>You will get much farther, and can help to achieve real change and benefits for your class or interest in this game, by always trying to make friends and seek change in a positive and constructive manner, rather than as an angry poster demanding accountability from individual employees of SoE:</p><p><img src="http://www.solisearch.net/ims/pic.php?u=44598f2SY&i=267479"></p><p>Message Edited by Ixnay on <span class="date_text">04-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:48 AM</span></p>

[Sokolov]

<div></div><div><span>I agree with everything you said.  Too bad none of it shows how /bug and /feedback and official boards work.  The only evidence we see right now is that Wards were NOT fixed until a "cool dev" was contacted on a "private" board.I am not asking the devs to be accountable.  But when you look at Lockeye's response, what you see is not that they made a mistake.  There is no admission of fault in there, just an excuse.  In fact, his logic is meant to absolve SoE completely in that there was no reason to tell us because it was fixing something that should have been assumed all along.  Frankly, the tone and attitude of the post annoyed me.I don't believe I have been demanding or been needlessly angry.Recently I posted in a thread where we praised the devs - I specifically stated that KoS is a beautiful expansion, and it's true, the new content is really well done.  I have been in PMs with mods and devs alike.  But the thing is, when I make a post and it's a complaint, that's what it will be, a complaint.  If I don't think someone a dev did or said makes sense, I will let them know.  While I appreciate the work they do and understand that they cannot please everyone, I am honest when something has been done that does not sit with me - in this case, Lockeye's strange response (not the nerf to Defile, which is fine), and this Ward thing. Anyway, I am happy Wards are being fixed, altho still annoyed at how long it took compared to fixing Reactives, and the evidence which shows that we should just PM Ixnay and Bandit to pass on to the dev instead of using the supposed proper channels.</span></div><p>Message Edited by Sokolov on <span class="date_text">04-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:05 AM</span></p>

[Ixnay]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Sokolov wrote:<div><span></span> </div><div><span>Anyway, I am happy Wards are being fixed, altho still annoyed at how long it took compared to fixing Reactives, and the evidence which shows that we should just PM Ixnay and Bandit to pass on to the dev instead of using the supposed proper channels.</div></span><hr></blockquote><p>No - there are no class reps in EQ2, you should always follow official channels to report bugs and issues, that is the best and fastest way to get them looked into.</p><p>All I am is an extreme fan of EQ2 who likes to ask questions.  Often, when an issue that concerns me, my friends, or my sense of fairness has been unresolved for what I consider to be an unreasonable time, I will compile and synthesize what I and others have posted on the issue, and then research who is the best person to talk to about this issue, and then present my information and request about the issue in a friendly and positive manner.  That's it.</p><p>Message Edited by Ixnay on <span class="date_text">04-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:03 AM</span></p>

[Sokolov]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Ixnay wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Sokolov wrote:<div><span></span> </div><div><span>Anyway, I am happy Wards are being fixed, altho still annoyed at how long it took compared to fixing Reactives, and the evidence which shows that we should just PM Ixnay and Bandit to pass on to the dev instead of using the supposed proper channels.</span></div><hr></blockquote><p>No - there are no class reps in EQ2, you should always follow official channels to report bugs and issues, that is the best and fastest way to get them looked into.</p><hr></blockquote>Let me give you an example that doesn't involve Defilers specifically.Do you remember when they added cross-class skill books, and they used double fuel?Somewhere along the way, some (not all) rare recipes had their fuel requirements changed so that it was cheaper in many cases to produce goods with the new skills rather than your existing ones.  An alchemist, having no real use for apothecary, was now penalized if they did not leveling up this new cross-class skill.  I presume someone somewhere made a /feedback about the fuel costs.  So I, and others, bugged this, and it was posted, along with a million other bugs on the boards.  This was left stickied for months.  Was it ever fixed?  No.  Why does it take so long to look into something that was apparently changed without comment earlier?  If it's intended, why not say so?Same thing with the messed up level requirements for crafted items in Tier 6.  It's one expansion later and many lingering issues have never been addressed or even commented on.  Is there some great mystery I am not comprending on these theoritically minor changes?  I am not completely ignorant on programming practices, and I cannot see this being something that takes a year to correct.  So what's the problem?  And are the customers really unjustified to be irked?</span></div>

[Ixnay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sokolov wrote:<div><span>Let me give you an example that doesn't involve Defilers specifically.Do you remember when they added cross-class skill books, and they used double fuel?Somewhere along the way, some (not all) rare recipes had their fuel requirements changed so that it was cheaper in many cases to produce goods with the new skills rather than your existing ones.  An alchemist, having no real use for apothecary, was now penalized if they did not leveling up this new cross-class skill.  I presume someone somewhere made a /feedback about the fuel costs.  So I, and others, bugged this, and it was posted, along with a million other bugs on the boards.  This was left stickied for months.  Was it ever fixed?  No.  Why does it take so long to look into something that was apparently changed without comment earlier?  If it's intended, why not say so?Same thing with the messed up level requirements for crafted items in Tier 6.  It's one expansion later and many lingering issues have never been addressed or even commented on.  Is there some great mystery I am not comprending on these theoritically minor changes?  I am not completely ignorant on programming practices, and I cannot see this being something that takes a year to correct.  So what's the problem?  And are the customers really unjustified to be irked?</span></div><hr></blockquote><p>I'd suggest not comparing tradeskill issues to adventure class issues.  Why?  There is one tradeskill dev, and he has to prioritize hundreds and even thousands of issues.  Comparing tradeskill and adventuring issues would be like comparing apples and bananas.  They grow on different trees, and in different parts of the world, so if you want a better banana, you are probably wasting your time by looking in an apple orchard.</p><p>If you want to compare issues, I think you are better off comparing the issues, responses, and fixes affecting our class to others.  IMO, it is a fair to suggest that our class should receive equal priority regarding our issues when compared to other classes, and other classes shouldn't receive more dev love just because they are louder and throw more at the fan, and faster, than we do.</p>

[Randell44]

Look, the devs and designers are doing the best they can to fix the game.  Some problems are difficult and some problems get pushed back by others with greater priority.  I'm sure broker issues did not help them concentrate on other issue one bit and they went on for a few weeks.They try and try and make progress and fix after fix.  They attempt to change the game for the better as well based not on a single person's feedback but a mass of people's feedback vs thier own judgement.   What do they get for it?  They get paid, and then they get slammed, slandered, insulted, and spit on by many of the forum goers.  Yet inevitably these forum goers, in spite of all the "laziness" and "problems" they see,  hang around for an extended period of time.  Not exactly a sign the devs/designers are falling down on the job.Then when a dev actually posts they have these same apparently loyal customers just waiting like rabid dogs to rip into them and pick apart anything they say, anything the posters can do to cast it into a bad light. Your not one of these you say?  That's fine, but there are many of those posters around so they deal with it regardless.When it comes down to it, there will always be bugs, there will always be problems, and the devs will always be trying to fix or improve the game.  Not everyone will be happy about improvements or some balancing/fixes, you can't please everyone and many just want you to help thier specific characters and to heck with all else.So just realize the extreme challenge both job and community related that these employee's contend with and try to be positive and supportive.  If you have issues, by all means post or PM them.  Just make sure you use the right channels.  Most changes are based on feedback. HOWEVER, do try to be polite.  Nobody want's to recieve a PM like this:"OMG you guys suck, wards have been broken forever now, get offa your lazy bums and do something about it or you'll lose 10548% of your fans."A lil exagerrated but you can bet they have recieved at least 1 PM almost pretty close to that.So again, relax, understand, go thru the channels, be polite.<div></div>

[Ishnar]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ixnay wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>And I learned a lesson also.  I'm not going to "leak" anything in the future either. </p><p><font color="#ff0000">/pout.  I really appreciated that leak, even if I was confident it would be fixed eventually anyway.</font></p><p><img src="http://www.solisearch.net/ims/pic.php?u=44598f2SY&i=267479"></p><hr></blockquote><p>I don't think this picture is getting the OOO factor it deserves.  Is that photoshoped or did Ixnay get immortalized in game?  My first thought was it was a special item that takes the name of the creator, but it was created by Ixnay's alt, or Ixnay is elleffgee's alt.  Either way.</p><p>Anyway.  OOOoooOOO</p><p>/envy</p>

[Ixnay]

<blockquote><hr>Ishnar wrote:<div></div><blockquote>Is that photoshoped or did Ixnay get immortalized in game?  My first thought was it was a special item that takes the name of the creator, but it was created by Ixnay's alt, or Ixnay is elleffgee's alt.  Either way.</blockquote><hr></blockquote><p>I'll give you a hint <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>The reason I post big screenshots, with all the area around the actual graphic I want to show, because that is about the minimum area you can crop from a screenshot using Windows Paint without showing a white background.  If I had Photoshop or knew how to use it, I'd prolly be posting smaller screen labels.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>My original character was Ixnay, a SK, but he's now my alt.  I switched my main to my Defiler, Elleffgee (get it, LFG, and I never get tired of responding to the question, "who's LFG" in guild chat or OOC) at the beginning of DoF.</p><p>I <3 my Defiler.  He is a fun and powerful character, and I've never lost a duel against a melee character on him (but I've seen many other Defilers lose similar duels, so this should not be interpreted as a statement that our class is overpowered). </p>

[Sokolov]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Randell44 wrote:So again, relax, understand, go thru the channels, be polite.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Ironic that we find out that Wards are being fixed in the next update thru an unofficial channel then, isn't it?   I just find the whole thing disconcerting.    Again, I am happy Wards are being fixed, woohoo!  Just find it odd the way it happened.Anyway, I certainly understand their position from a game development point of view, but I think most players can agree that a large part of their issues is communication based - something that isn't really a bug, but perhaps of policy.I am not asking for everything to be fixed and I hope I don't sound like that - and at this point I don't even expect certain things (like what I mentioned above) ever being fixed, and I can't help but feel a little sad about that.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Sokolov on <span class="date_text">04-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:31 PM</span></p>

[Sokolov]

<span><blockquote><hr>Ishnar wrote:<div></div><blockquote></blockquote><p>I don't think this picture is getting the OOO factor it deserves.  Is that photoshoped or did Ixnay get immortalized in game?  My first thought was it was a special item that takes the name of the creator, but it was created by Ixnay's alt, or Ixnay is elleffgee's alt.  Either way.</p><p>Anyway.  OOOoooOOO</p><p>/envy</p><hr></blockquote>Hehe, Kendricke has one as well, and Gaige, and many others in the community.Incidentally, these are usually fairly outspoken individuals who are at the forefront of issues and information for their respective classes.</span><div></div>

[Ishnar]

<div></div>heh,<div>I definitely got the lfg joke.  On the AB channel we get lots of RP jokes about that.  Who is this lfg person?  People ask in shout and OOC.</div><div> </div>It's kind of funny, but my first character was an SK too.  And that was extremely surprised when I found the defiler to be much more fun.  I'm almost level 40 and is the first character I leveled higher than 22.  The only problem now is I want to make all my alts defilers too.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Ishnar on <span class="date_text">04-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:44 PM</span></p>

[Sokolov]

I ended up going Dirge on PvP, but I too had the urge to make it another Defiler...I will just settle for duels on Mistmoore, I guess.<div></div>

[Randell44]

As a Mystic on PVP i can honestly say I'm scary 1 vs 1, just scary lol.Think the two classes that have scared the crap outa me 1 on 1 and made me ride the red hp danger line a few times are warlock and brigand, both 2-3 lvls higher than me.  Haven't had any wizzies scare me.Battles against another healer?  Complete crap.  Just a long azz battle of trying to wear the other down only to have them stop attacking when they lose the advantage and wait for non-combat to kick in.Scouts (excepting brigands), tanks, and coercers/necro's arn't really that bad to me though.  Usually the odds are titled in my favor even though i'm usually the lower lvl one.  YES i said necros.  Ran the overconfident buttheads out of power many a time.<div></div>

[Ishnar]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Randell44 wrote:As a Mystic on PVP i can honestly say I'm scary 1 vs 1, just scary lol.Think the two classes that have scared the crap outa me 1 on 1 and made me ride the red hp danger line a few times are warlock and brigand, both 2-3 lvls higher than me.  Haven't had any wizzies scare me.Battles against another healer?  Complete crap.  Just a long azz battle of trying to wear the other down only to have them stop attacking when they lose the advantage and wait for non-combat to kick in.Scouts (excepting brigands), tanks, and coercers/necro's arn't really that bad to me though.  Usually the odds are titled in my favor even though i'm usually the lower lvl one.  YES i said necros.  Ran the overconfident buttheads out of power many a time.<div></div><hr></blockquote></div><div>do you get any utility from the dog in pvp?  Infective bites looks like it could make a serious difference in pvp, even if it only got off once.  Apparently it stacks too.</div><div> </div><div>I was looking at Ritual but this looks even better.  I'd rather debuff anyway and this debuff sounds really sweet.  It might help a lot in solo too since CAs and Spells are where most classes damage seems to come from.  Slowing the recast timer, oohh, baby yes.  Sounds even more effective than my dps debuff.</div><div> </div><div>I haven't had any PvP since I turned on auto-decline duels but I've been considering turning the option off since I never lost before.  Not in PvP but I did have a major problem with an NPC brigand once.  Some quest had me hunt him down in EF and he kept knocking me down and interupting me.  He was half my level and I was starting to think I would die just because I could never get a spell off before I got knocked down and interupted again.</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by Ishnar on <span class="date_text">04-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:02 PM</span></p>

[Randell44]

<div></div>Aye the constant interrupts is why both the warlock and the brigand were scary.  Brigand consistantly does it over a moderate time period.  Warlock does it between hp flooring spells.  All in all both had me riding the razors edge with the added fact they had lvls on me.As far as dog utility in pvp?  HA!!  Even if your dog is awesome for PVP alive it will never live.  Smart players know they can splat it almost instantly.  AOE doesn't help either.  Dog is far from worthless as is PVE, but PVP the insanely low hp just kills it's usefulness.Also, after looking at things and deciding that STA is prolly the best line for a mystic to go, I instead decided to take the agility line and increase my melee prowess.  WHY OH WHY?  Because someone said it would suck and I'm out to prove it wouldn't.  I fail to see how any achievment path could be anything but an improvement, and mystic is a solid stand alone class without achievements.If i ever max out AGI (in 1 year lol) I will post my findings on it.EDIT:  As far as dog abilities, I'd have to say infective bite and rabies together would make some of THE most effective debuffs I have seen, stacked with yours, but i doubt the dog will live long enough in pvp for this to be worthwhile.  PVE it might work though.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Randell44 on <span class="date_text">04-08-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:57 AM</span></p>

[Ishnar]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Randell44 wrote:<div></div>Also, after looking at things and deciding that STA is prolly the best line for a mystic to go, I instead decided to take the agility line and increase my melee prowess.  WHY OH WHY?  Because someone said it would suck and I'm out to prove it wouldn't.  I fail to see how any achievment path could be anything but an improvement, and mystic is a solid stand alone class without achievements.<hr></blockquote><p>heh, I've been thinking the same.  Slowly I'm working my way up.  Planned is Agi - 4-8-8-4-8, Sta - 4-4-8-1</p><p>So far I've got 5 total points.  My next point will start me with Phalanx!</p>

[Randell44]

Heh, i'm only on my 2nd.  I have like 3 mains LOL.<div></div>