The State of the Defiler

[Broomhilda]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div>2nd EDIT:  PLEASE NOTE THIS WILL BE POSTED ON THE S&C Forums by this afternoon.  Please make any additional comments asap!</div><div> </div><div>Hello,  I would like to start a thread regarding current Defiler issues and spells that need addressing.  Here are my observations as a level 69 Defiler:</div><div> </div><div>Stamina Debuffs - <strong>Malignancy:  </strong>this is an "off and on" issue.  Sometimes they work correctly, other times they heal the mob.  We must be careful to ensure they are working as intended.  Issues commonly arise and are noticed when fighting raid mobs.  The stamina debuff decreases the total HP of the mob making it appear as if the mob has healed itself.  Typically when the debuff wears off the mobs health returns to low level plus any additional damage taken however in some cases this is not happening and the mobs health stays intact.  So infact the stamina debuff has "healed" the mob.</div><div> </div><div><strong>Crystalize Spirit</strong> Line:  Others call is "Anti-Healing" spell, but I want to be specific here.  Some have noticed that this spell does not "proc" the anti healing aspect of the line. </div><div> </div><div><strong>Ghostly Avenger</strong> Line:  IMHO, total crap and always has been.  The pet rarely pops and when it does it stands there doing nothing as the tank dies.</div><div> </div><div><strong>Ward Leakage and stacking issues</strong>:  This is also a recurrent theme.  If anyone has the difinitive answer to these issues please post.  My understanding is that wards of the SAME line (single, group) do not stack and that includes the wards of our good-sided Mystics.</div><div> </div><div><strong>Bane of shielding line</strong>:  Doesnt proc nearly enough to make it valuable. </div><div> </div><div><strong>AA's:  The pet's viability is questionable</strong>.  One must take the strength line in order to obtain aoe immunity for the pet.  If not the pet dies easily and must be recast often, disrupting gameplay.</div><div> </div><div><strong>Lack of raidwide buffs</strong>:  this fact makes the Defiler confined to MT group only or delegates us as the debuffer and patch healer if not in the MT group.  By making some of our buffs (Portent, Tendrils line) raidwide it will give us added value outside the MT group and perhaps end this debate on which Shammy is best in the MT group (Either Mystic of Defiler).</div><div> </div><div><strong>Defile</strong>:  Silently nerfed in todays patch.   Damage is significantly less than before.  No idea what thats about.  Care to explain Devs? </div><div> </div><div><strong>VoA</strong> :  seems to be working far better than before however some Defilers claim it still isnt working correctly.<p><font size="2"><strong>Fear Chant Line:</strong>  the durations are NOT increasing with higher level versions of these spells (both ae and single target fears)   </font></p></div><div>This is going to "press" later today.  Please make any final additions asap.</div><div> </div><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Broomhilda on <span class="date_text">03-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:31 AM</span></p>

[sostrows]

Lets start this over in Spells, Combat.Don't think SOE even knows they have a Defiler board.<div></div>

[Broomhilda]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>sostrows wrote:Lets start this over in Spells, Combat.Don't think SOE even knows they have a Defiler board.<div></div><hr></blockquote>I basically was trying to just get feedback from everyone and then head over to S&C forums if needed so we can represent a more unified front (for a change).  But whatever.

[NurseNam]

<div>Personally, I think the whole AA pet thing should be looked at again.</div><div> </div><div>Besides that, Wards are leaking. I have had this happen to me on many occasions.</div>

[MilkToa]

<div></div><div>Besides the issues you've listed, I'm also concerned about the viability of the pet. It can't be buffed so if you want to use it with any mob that AEs you have to spec the strength line just to get AE immunity. Since so many AAs require the pet being forced to spec the strength line definitely limits our options in spec'ing our AAs.</div><div> </div>

[Rolande']

<div> I agree, I am only 30 on my defiler, but I have two 60+ toons and cant see using the pet in fights unless I actually have the AE immunity. So as the poster above has stated, that means we are basically "forced" to go down str line. That means we have only one real choice after that, they should make the pet immune to AE passively and go from there.</div>

[Ixnay]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Broomhilda wrote:<div>Hello,  I would like to start a thread regarding current Defiler issues and spells that need addressing.  Here are my observations as a level 69 Defiler:</div><div> </div><div>Stamina Debuffs - <strong>Malignancy:  </strong>this is an "off and on" issue.  Sometimes they work correctly, other times they heal the mob.  We must be careful to ensure they are working as intended.  Issues commonly arise and are noticed when fighting raid mobs.</div><div> </div><div><strong>Crystalize Spirit</strong> Line:  Others call is "Anti-Healing" spell, but I want to be specific here.  Some have noticed that this spell does not "proc" the anti healing aspect of the line. </div><div> </div><div><strong>Ghostly Avenger</strong> Line:  IMHO, total crap and always has been.  The pet rarely pops and when it does it stands there doing nothing as the tank dies.</div><div> </div><div>Ward Leakage and stacking issues:  This is also a recurrent theme.  If anyone has the difinitive answer to these issues please post.  My understanding is that wards of the SAME line (single, group) do not stack and that includes the wards of our good-sided Mystics.</div><div> </div><div>Thats all I have for now.</div><hr></blockquote><p>Hey Broom:</p><p>Malignancy:  I was able to heal a raid mob from 70 to full using this last week.  Others have reported similar probs.  Dunno if it is just Malignancy or other STA debuffs, although to the best of my knowledge mystics are not reporting a prob with their sta debuffs atm.  As a sub issue, it is beyond confusing that STA debuffs appear to increase health when cast, while actually decreasing HP temporarily based on lower sta, but appearing to then increase health in the health bar.  I"m tired of explaining to people that my 32% all stat debuff spell really isn't healing the mob, it just looks like it, but then other times like last week, believing that that it actually did heal the mob, because it was increasing mob health while I cast it before it expired.  I'm just not sure what is going on with this anymore - but does anyone have a recommendation to a UI that shows exact mob HP remaining, so I can try and troubleshoot this? </p><p>Crystallize Spirit:  I'm also of the opinion this doesn't damage the mob as the spell description says it is supposed to do when the mob is healed.  I think that part of the spell is not working as intended, I've never seen a damage message and I use this spell all the time.</p><p>Ghostly Avenger:  Has worked the last several times I've used it and the tank was gonna die anyway, perhaps a couple other people could try it several times and report their findings.  IMO it is working at this time however.</p><p>Ward stacking:  Our wards don't stack with mystics or other defilers, but the specialty spells for the other priest subclasses don't stack either.  Our bigger issue is with our group ward.  I guess I assume it is still broken but haven't checked for the past two weeks to be honest, I just became really careful about never casting it while it was already up.  Perhaps someone else can post to confirm.  The problem is that if you cast Carrion Bulwark, or a previous group ward in this same line when it is already up, it appears to overwrite the previous ward, but the new ward won't absorb any damage.  It will just remain up and you will continue to take damage until it expires and you recast a new one.</p><p>I'm generally pretty happy with the class other than these things right now, Defile fixed a lot of things as far as I'm concerned, and I don't care as much about smaller issues since we got this new spell.</p><p>My take on the pet is this.  I have the STR line, and find it so useful with the AE avoidance, I often wonder why anyone would take anything else.  The pet live through all raid encounters with massive ae's, even Harla Dar and Hurricanus.  I'm also taking the STA line as far as the knockdown/bash skill, I loved having that before I respecced to go the full STR line.  The AE avoidance in the STR line is great for raids, the knockdown/bash skill in the STA line is great for soloing, duoing, etc.  Any remaining points I'll just put into stats.</p><p>Message Edited by Ixnay on <span class="date_text">03-22-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:31 PM</span></p>

[Ishnar]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Broomhilda wrote:<div> </div><div><strong>Crystalize Spirit</strong> Line:  Others call is "Anti-Healing" spell, but I want to be specific here.  Some have noticed that this spell does not "proc" the anti healing aspect of the line. </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Ward Leakage and stacking issues:  This is also a recurrent theme.  If anyone has the difinitive answer to these issues please post.  My understanding is that wards of the SAME line (single, group) do not stack and that includes the wards of our good-sided Mystics.</div><div> </div><div>Thats all I have for now.</div><hr></blockquote><p>The spell description does say 50% chance of procing and at 37 the line does seem to follow the description.</p><p>Wards should crit.  First they are our main heal.  Second, they rarely last full duration and if they do then the after heal isn't really necessary.  Third, If I use it out of combat as a heal, the player is near max health anyway by the time the after heal happens.  Of course, there might be aggro issues from critting a ward.</p>

[Rainbowse]

<div></div><div></div><p>I have noticed lately that maybe 3 out of 10 times the group ward just isnt working, but the only way to tell is when the tank starts to take massive damage even though the ward icon is showing in the spell bar.</p><p>I thought the sta debuff problem had been fixed but tbh am not sure it has since the mobs health certainly increases when its been cast.</p><p>Crystalize Spirit I use often but only to get the "healing crystal" so cant say Ive noticed if its working as intended.</p><p>And the avenger line Ive yet to see do anything at all. </p><p>Just as a side issue I find the dog pretty useless, have gone wis AA for the Ritual and am starting Sta for the knockdown but really object to having to spend loads of AAs on skills that rely on a pet that rarely lasts  longer than 2 mins.</p><p> </p><p>Kesha  66 Defiler   Splitpaw</p><p>Message Edited by Rainbowsend on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:04 AM</span></p>

[ShilienOrac]

<span><blockquote><hr>Broomhilda wrote:<div><strong>Crystalize Spirit</strong> Line:  Others call is "Anti-Healing" spell, but I want to be specific here.  Some have noticed that this spell does not "proc" the anti healing aspect of the line.</div><hr></blockquote>Last time I checked (about 2 month ago...), Cristalize Spirit was working fine with direct heals but not working at all with HoT and reactives. I experienced it while killing solo Harpies in PoF.</span><div></div>

[VulcanDarksoul]

I'm not exactly sure why nobody else gets this, but here goes anyway.Stamina debuffs do not heal mobs, period.Their health meter jumps up to full, because you just cut their total hit points down in size. Example. Mob has 1000 HP's total and is at 70% (ala 700 hp's). You debuff STA so that his max is now 680 hp's. He will now show full health. Get it?<div></div>

[Sharrah]

<div></div>Wow Vulcan, I honestly never thought of that.  Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

[Broomhilda]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>VulcanDarksoul wrote:I'm not exactly sure why nobody else gets this, but here goes anyway.Stamina debuffs do not heal mobs, period.Their health meter jumps up to full, because you just cut their total hit points down in size. Example. Mob has 1000 HP's total and is at 70% (ala 700 hp's). You debuff STA so that his max is now 680 hp's. He will now show full health. Get it?<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Your absolutely right Vulcan and many of us do understand and know this.  However when the debuff is cancelled or wears off the mob health should decrease due to the HP max being restored....it doesn't.  Therefore it has effectively "healed" the mob.  Don't take my word for it, SOE themselves know of this issue and have corrected it in the past.  It simply Keeps on recurring for some [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing reason. </p><p>Broomy</p><p>Message Edited by Broomhilda on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:57 AM</span></p>

[Ixnay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>VulcanDarksoul wrote:I'm not exactly sure why nobody else gets this, but here goes anyway.Stamina debuffs do not heal mobs, period.Their health meter jumps up to full, because you just cut their total hit points down in size. Example. Mob has 1000 HP's total and is at 70% (ala 700 hp's). You debuff STA so that his max is now 680 hp's. He will now show full health. Get it?<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>I understand the concept and application of relative percentages in this situation very well, but what you describe is not always what is happening in my experience.</p><p>But I realize the only way I will be able to prove this is with numeric proof and screenshots.</p><p>I've been looking for a UI that shows actual mob health points remaining - can anyone provide a link to such a thing?  I agree it is less than scientific to say that I think I'm healing a raid mob by recasting my Malignancy spell and visually watching the mob's health bar increase from 70 percent to 100 percent, in 10 percent increments based on multiple casts while my guild is fighting the mob and there have been no heal messages involving the mob.  To prove my point, I would need to show the mob's remaining HP increase from 2 million to 2.2 million as a numeric value, rather than just a 10 percent jump in the bar, for example.</p><p>By the way - stamina debuffs have healed mobs in the past, by SoE's own admission, and as proven by patches fixing that problem.  I believe there is a current problem that involves our Malignancy line, which includes a STA debuff.  I don't know whether the problem involves the STA in this debuff or something else.  But if STA debuffs have been broken and functioning as heals before, it is at least possible they could be bugged again, either now or in the future.</p>

[MilkToa]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Broomhilda wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>VulcanDarksoul wrote:I'm not exactly sure why nobody else gets this, but here goes anyway.Stamina debuffs do not heal mobs, period.Their health meter jumps up to full, because you just cut their total hit points down in size. Example. Mob has 1000 HP's total and is at 70% (ala 700 hp's). You debuff STA so that his max is now 680 hp's. He will now show full health. Get it?<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Your absolutely right Vulcan and many of us do understand and know this.  However when the debuff is cancelled or wears off the mob health should decrease due to the HP max being restored....it doesn't.  Therefore it has effectively "healed" the mob.  Don't take my word for it, SOE themselves know of this issue and have corrected it in the past.  It simply Keeps on recurring for some [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing reason. </p><p>Broomy</p><p>Message Edited by Broomhilda on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:57 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>Yes, it looks like the problem is back.</p><p> </p>

[MalkorGodchyld]

<div></div><div></div><p> <font size="2">    This issue is well known of course & worth looking into but honestly it's working as it's always been.   The mobs health bar has always jumped back up in my experience.  I've tested it multiple times in the past & this was the case.  </font></p><p><font size="2">    What happens is that the dmg being done to the mob is somehow wrapped with the percent value of the debuff.    When the debuff wears off, that 32% sta. is given back to the mob.  <em>Unless </em> you drop 32% of the mobs health before malignancy expires...so it seems that,  to really get full effectiveness you have to keep the debuff applied & make sure it doesnt wear off.</font></p><p><font size="2">      That doesn't make sense to me but it's the way i've known it to work & it's on SOE if they're gonna look into it or not.   Yes the health SHOULD decrease...but this has never been the case in my experience.   </font></p><p><font size="2">  In either case, you'd definately have to get a UI with actual hit pt. values in order to test this & be certain.</font></p><p><font size="2"></font> </p><p><font size="2"> ~ Marius Darkchyld ~     55 Defiler</font></p><p><font size="2">      * Talisman *             Nagafen</font></p><p><font size="2"></font> </p><p>Message Edited by MalkorGodchyld on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:42 AM</span></p>

[Eileithia]

<div></div><p>One thing to add to the list Broom.. (Don't think I saw it there).. make the Tendrils line raid wide.. I agree with everything else you've posted as well.</p>

[Zathrys]

One thing that may be affecting the ward leakage is intervene spells.  Say your main tank has intervene up on a caster that has a habit of overnuking.  Our wards do not block intervene damage, additionally the tank will intercept the exact damage the cloth wearer would get.  For example I have my single target ward up on the tank.  The tank takes on average 300 points of damage per hit.  He has intervene up on a cloth caster and the caster gets aggro.  The mob in question will hit the caster for 1k+, that means the intervening tank will get hit for unmitigated 1k+ and our wards do not absorb it.  IMO this is a bug that needs fixed.<div></div>

[Ixnay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Duntzzzz wrote:<div></div><p>One thing to add to the list Broom.. (Don't think I saw it there).. make the Tendrils line raid wide.. I agree with everything else you've posted as well.</p><hr></blockquote>I agree, the additional versatility would be nice.  I also wouldn't mind if both Portent and Foretelling were made raid wide either (non-stacking).  Both these things would reduce any argument about one shaman subclass being better for a particular raid group than the other.

[Eileithia]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ixnay wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Duntzzzz wrote:<div></div><p>One thing to add to the list Broom.. (Don't think I saw it there).. make the Tendrils line raid wide.. I agree with everything else you've posted as well.</p><hr></blockquote>I agree, the additional versatility would be nice.  I also wouldn't mind if both Portent and Foretelling were made raid wide either (non-stacking).  Both these things would reduce any argument about one shaman subclass being better for a particular raid group than the other.<hr></blockquote>/signed! :smileytongue:

[Broomhilda]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Ixnay wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Duntzzzz wrote:<div></div><p>One thing to add to the list Broom.. (Don't think I saw it there).. make the Tendrils line raid wide.. I agree with everything else you've posted as well.</p><hr></blockquote>I agree, the additional versatility would be nice.  I also wouldn't mind if both Portent and Foretelling were made raid wide either (non-stacking).  Both these things would reduce any argument about one shaman subclass being better for a particular raid group than the other.<hr></blockquote><p>Couldnt agree more. In fact I have given thought to taking up this cause a few weeks ago, basically making some of our buffs raid wide.   This would finally end the Bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] between us and Mystics in my mind.  If they make Defilers just as valuable OUT of the MT group as Mystics are it wouldnt matter which shaman class was where.  </p><p>Also, more of us would be recruited to guilds because of this instead of the current one or two Defiler coveted spots in a guild.   Ixnay made a great point on the mystic boards about a guild only  needing one Defiler on a raid  whereas a raid could always use several mystics.  Our buffs are for the most part group only and our debuffs have caps.  If Tendrils and Portent were raid wide we could certainly be more useful OVERALL.  Unfortunately that excellent point was lost on some. </p><p>Message Edited by Broomhilda on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:14 PM</span></p>

[Broomhilda]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>MalkorGodchyld wrote:<div></div><div></div><p> <font size="2">    This issue is well known of course & worth looking into but honestly it's working as it's always been.   The mobs health bar has always jumped back up in my experience.  I've tested it multiple times in the past & this was the case.  </font></p><p><font size="2">    What happens is that the dmg being done to the mob is somehow wrapped with the percent value of the debuff.    When the debuff wears off, that 32% sta. is given back to the mob.  <em>Unless </em> you drop 32% of the mobs health before malignancy expires...so it seems that,  to really get full effectiveness you have to keep the debuff applied & make sure it doesnt wear off.</font></p><p><font size="2">   </font><font size="2"> </font></p><hr></blockquote><p>Malk even if the damage being done while the debuff is on isnt a full 32%, the mob health should be reduced by the amount of actual damage when the debuff expires.  My experience has been the opposite of yours.  When the debuff wore off the mob health always reduced by the amount of damamge it sustained during the debuff duration.  It would look basically like this:</p><p>Cast debuff, Mobs health jumps up due to the reduced amount of HP. </p><p>Debuff wears off, mobs health goes down to previous status PLUS the amount of damamge sustained during the debuff duration. </p><p>This is what I have seen in the past.  What I see "off and on" now is the debuff wearing and the mobs health NOT changing.  Its impossible that it sustained no damage during the debuff. </p><p>Thats been my experience.  And I agree about keeping the debuff up on the mob at all times.  Keeping the HP max down helps the raid kill the mob faster.</p>

[Ixnay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Duntzzzz wrote:<div></div><blockquote>I agree, the additional versatility would be nice.  I also wouldn't mind if both Portent and Foretelling were made raid wide either (non-stacking).  Both these things would reduce any argument about one shaman subclass being better for a particular raid group than the other.<hr></blockquote>/signed! :smileytongue:<hr></blockquote><p>Hey bud, I accept your criticism on the mystic board, about my recent posts there, as fair and unbiased.  But since the situation now is that they are far more likely to consider your suggestions than mine, perhaps they would think this is a good idea if you proposed it as a solution to the "which shaman subclass is the best for the MT group debate".</p><p>I would love nothing more than for any perception of inequality between our subclasses to be eliminated, and IMO the above suggestions would be a strong step in that direction.  If both mystics and defilers supported these changes, then the only real consideration for the EQ2 dev team would be whether these changes would be unbalancing game wide.  I don't think these minor changes would cause any unbalancing, and I think they are far more feasible than suggestions to increase the STA cap for mystic debuffs. </p><p>I want raidleaders to decide what shaman to use in what raid position based solely on factors such as best equipment, most experience, best spell upgrades, and achievement skills.  I want to compete based on my skill and merits, rather than based on any idea that I have an unfair advantage because my subclass can buff the MT for ~500 more HP if I play in the MT group. </p>

[Broomhilda]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Ixnay wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr></blockquote><p>Hey bud, I accept your criticism on the mystic board, about my recent posts there, as fair and unbiased.  But since the situation now is that they are far more likely to consider your suggestions than mine, perhaps they would think this is a good idea if you proposed it as a solution to the "which shaman subclass is the best for the MT group debate".</p><p>I</p><hr></blockquote><p>Ixnay with all due respect, let's leave those Mystics alone.  I left that discussion on thier forums after I saw the posts become nothing but personal insults towards you and other defilers in general.  I now see that they are "ordering" us off thier forums and are taking credit for the advances shamans have made (ie: ward mitigation).  I was fighting for that since over a year ago, dealing with the ignorance that existed in the form of two or three defilers that lurked here.  Do a serach under my name, I was attacked constantly for speaking out about our broken issues by certain Defilers more concerned with "looking bad" then in getting fixed.</p><p>They want to cry about 500 HP then let them.  If they cant see how valuable by far they are in AND out of the MT group, thats their problem.  I think the position here is to get these problematic spells that are broken addressed and getting some raid-wide usefulness obtained for the DEFILER.</p><p>Peace. </p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Broomhilda on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:06 PM</span></p>

[VulcanDarksoul]

I stand corrected. I was unaware of this problem that you describe Broom. Sorry if I came across strong.<div></div>

[Jas]

Why are you guys letting the debuff wear off?  <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span>Basically I've made Revulsion (cos I'm poor) my first debuff cast - even before my slow - and I just spend the extra time keeping it up the whole fight.  Are you seeing the health jump around when you refresh the buff or is it just when it wears off/is recast?  That's how I try and debuff pretty much all the time, just force of habit since the Stamina debuffs never seem to get 100% fixed.<div></div>

[Ixnay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Broomhilda wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>Ixnay with all due respect, let's leave those Mystics alone.  I left that discussion on thier forums after I saw the posts become nothing but personal insults towards you and other defilers in general.  I now see that they are "ordering" us off thier forums and are taking credit for the advances shamans have made (ie: ward mitigation).  I was fighting for that since over a year ago, dealing with the ignorance that existed in the form of two or three defilers that lurked here.  Do a serach under my name, I was attacked constantly for speaking out about our broken issues by certain Defilers more concerned with "looking bad" then in getting fixed.</p><p>They want to cry about 500 HP then let them.  If they cant see how valuable by far they are in AND out of the MT group, thats their problem.  I think the position here is to get these problematic spells that are broken addressed and getting some raid-wide usefulness obtained for the DEFILER.</p><p>Peace. </p><p></p><p><span class="time_text"></span></p><hr></blockquote><p>I was honestly just looking for common ground we could all live with, and then it turned into a [Removed for Content] contest.  But I pretty much agree with everything you've ever written on these boards to date, including what you've said above, and I also have better ways to spend my time.</p><p>Peace to you also <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Ixnay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Jasek wrote:Why are you guys letting the debuff wear off?  <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span>Basically I've made Revulsion (cos I'm poor) my first debuff cast - even before my slow - and I just spend the extra time keeping it up the whole fight.  Are you seeing the health jump around when you refresh the buff or is it just when it wears off/is recast?  That's how I try and debuff pretty much all the time, just force of habit since the Stamina debuffs never seem to get 100% fixed.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Good points.  Regarding why Malignancy wears off:</p><p>-biggest problem is that it is only a 36 sec duration, and has a 20 sec recast.  So you only have a 16 second window to recast the spell before it drops and you get a health spike.  A lot can happen at a raid in 16 seconds, perhaps agro switched and you need to help spam wards and heals on the MT, maybe you are trying to rez people quickly, or perhaps patch healing.  The fact of life is that this debuff drops at raids because the duration is so short, and then you get a health spike.</p><p>-It's unusual for 2 defilers at the same raid to have the same spell version and quality, so it's most efficient for this debuff to be maintained by one defiler only if possible.  This is because, as the above poster points out, you can use level ~21ish Revulsion instead of Malignancy for about one-third of the power, and it does exactly the same thing.  The problem, however, is that Revulsion will not overwrite Malignancy, the earlier ones cannot be cast on top of the later ones before they wear off.  So you have that problem.  The other problem you have is that if both defilers are casting Malignancy, and one has Master 1 and the other has Adept 1, the Adept 1 version will overwrite the Master 1 version if the two defilers are the same adventure level.  So you also get a "wearing off" health spike also if a lower version of malignancy is cast over a higher version by another defiler.</p><p>-defilers get the most agro of all the priest classes, at least based on my personal experience, due to the greater hate that wards cause over cleric and fury heal spells, and for some still unknown and unfixed issues related to our buffs or class.  Accordingly, we sometimes die more than druids and clerics, and our maintained debuffs drop when that happens.  Then you get a health spike.</p><p>Some of the things that could be done to fix Malignancy : (a) make it so that it does not actually increase, or appear to increase, mob health points when it is cast or wears off, (b) increase the spell duration to a minute to make it more usable, (c) stop the shell game of upgrading the spell each tier and requiring more power to cast it without providing any additional benefit over a lower version of the same spell, and/or (d) prevent a lower quality version of Malignancy like App IV from being able to overwrite a higher quality Master 1 version of the same spell by same level defilers.</p><p>I'd almost rather them take STA off the debuff entirely, and sub a resist debuff, based on the chronic problems STA has caused on this debuff.</p>

[Ixnay]

<div>Broom, please add one more:</div><div> </div><div>Bane of Protection:  Most defilers count this in their top five most useless spells.  The proc does not work in accordance with the description, and never has.  The spell is cast on a mob, and for it's duration, is supposed to proc a ward 10% of the time on the player being hit.  The spell has never processed at this rate or even close to it, and in my experience only procs once or twice at most in a two to three minute fight, if at all.  Mystics apparently believe this spell gives our class an advantage over theirs, so it's high time for this spell to be fixed so that we can start enjoying that benefit.</div>

[Broomhilda]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Ixnay wrote:<div>Broom, please add one more:</div><div> </div><div>Bane of Protection:  Most defilers count this in their top five most useless spells.  The proc does not work in accordance with the description, and never has.  The spell is cast on a mob, and for it's duration, is supposed to proc a ward 10% of the time on the player being hit.  The spell has never processed at this rate or even close to it, and in my experience only procs once or twice at most in a two to three minute fight, if at all.  Mystics apparently believe this spell gives our class an advantage over theirs, so it's high time for this spell to be fixed so that we can start enjoying that benefit.</div><hr></blockquote><p>Will do.  This is another spell that I simply forgot about because I never use it.  They are really grabbing at straws over there aren't they if they include this piece of crap as a legitimate "raid-wide" spell and advantage.  [Removed for Content]!   </p><p>After we gather enough info here I am going to place this on th eS&C forums under a title like "The Consolidated List of Broken Defiler Spell & AA's" , or something of that nature. </p><p>Message Edited by Broomhilda on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:51 PM</span></p>

[Broomhilda]

<div></div>Updated first  post with the concerns mentioned in the thread.  Please keep submitting any concerns I'lll continue to edit and move the final version onto the S&C forums when done.

[arieste]

First of all, thank you for putting all this together.  I think all the issue are valid, with the possible exception of the pet, which I'd like to be better but I can live with.  Down STR line I go.One issue I have that somehow doesn't seem bother anyone but me is the weapon issue.  I have made numerous posts on this and have gotten 0 support, so I guess it doesn't bother others, but I'll give to you anyhow.SOE Obviously thinks we should be wielding Spears.  I mean we currently have 2 spear AA lines and no hammer line... nuf said. 1.  There are barely any good spears in the game.  Can you name any with power regen on it?  There is no Spear reward for either Prismatic 1.0 or 2.0.  There is no spear reward for Grizzfazzle.2. What exactly is a spear?  Couple of months ago, I spent money and got myself a Cobalt Halbert.. SOE suddenly decided that was an Axe not a spear and now I can sell it to merchant for 7g... yay.  It gets better... I can actually use a T7 crafted Halbert! It's a spear again!  Or is it?  How would I know? What about wurmslayer?  I need to get 50 levels in crafting to find out whether or not my STR power will even work with this thing? Is a Pike a spear?  What about Halbert of Anuk, it has defiler on it... but I didn't want to wager the biggest quest reward in the game on a whim, so I took scepter, is it a spear though?  Shouldn't there be a way to know these things?  Next time you have a difficult quest reward that has an awesome Halbert you can use or an awesome hammer, don't want to know which one is useable for your AA line before choosing?3.  We DO get awesome hammers... and maces... and flails... and scepters... and have no AA lines for them. Like i said, I'm repeating myself for the 10th time here and I'm sorry for doing it.  But doesn't this bother ANYONE else?Anyhow, I hope this consolidation of issues gets us defilers somewhere. cheers and best of lucka.(Pantheya, 70 Defiler, LDL)<div></div>

[Ixnay]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>arieste wrote:What about wurmslayer?  I need to get 50 levels in crafting to find out whether or not my STR power will even work with this thing? <div></div><hr></blockquote><p>While the Wurmslayer is a halberd class item, and shaman can equip most halberd-class items in game, including the Godking Halberd, the HQ dev saw fit to expressly exclude shaman from being able to use The Wurmslayer.  So we have a situation where scouts, who were never intended to equip two handers really, can equip the wurmslayer, but shaman can't.  I think I pretty well described my feelings about the issue here:</p><p><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=items&message.id=65048&view=by_date_ascending&page=4" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=items&message.id=65048&view=by_date_ascending&page=4</a></p><p>In my case I'm a level 70 tradeskiller and my guild has killed Harla Dar, so it would be no problem for me to complete the quest, but it would waste my time for me to do so.</p><p>But yes, I'd like to see more top shelf one handed and two handed spears given as quest choices, there are only a few in game, while 2 of our achievement lines require these weapons.</p><p>Message Edited by Ixnay on <span class="date_text">03-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:22 PM</span></p>

[sntr]

<div></div><div>Agreeing with everything so far.   I did try to test out the Attibute debuff tonight on a duel.  I was asking him to report back his Current HP, although it was also early in the morning he was noting no change in health.  I did two tests; First: DMG, debuff, cancel - there were no health spikes and stats were lowered ; Second: Debuff, DMG, cancel - once again no change in health though of course the stats did drop.  I will test this again today to confirm this though.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>I know most of the spells you have been discussing are of high priority, though one for that group soloing.  In a past LU there was a mention that all fear spells duration would raise with each upgrade...  defilers never did see a change on neither single fear nor de-aggro group ae fear.  Just figured if you would putting together a nice package for SOE from us you could include that one as well.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>-Rou</div><div> </div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by sntrix on <span class="date_text">03-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:28 AM</span></p>

[MalkorGodchyld]

<div></div><div></div><p>    <font size="2">  Just to clarify...in my previous post the effect of malignancy is right assuming that its the first thing cast on a mob.   It almost always is for me thus i rarely see a health bar jump.  ( unless i cast it mid fight or i let it wear off )     Moving on though...gosh its so much to be done & tweaked to our class !    It's irritating because its just small fixes... but anyway.</font></p><p><font size="2">1.) <strong>Bane  Line</strong> ~   The proc rate has always been ridiculous...  the IDEA of the spell is great but it would kinda help if it worked.    As it stands i very rarely waste time casting it.  </font></p><p><font size="2">2.) <strong>Crystallize Spirit Line</strong> ~   Again a defilerish idea wasted...50% chance to cause dmg on a heal??  i think NOT.     And if it is maybe this needs to be upgraded to 75%.    Another thing that would make this spell worth having is increasing the amount of spirits we can hold in our inventory & pass out.          </font></p><p><font size="2">             ( make the Bane & Crystallize line procable like Dread Invective & not castable???  )       just a thought</font></p><p><font size="2">3.) <strong>Infestation Line</strong> ~  Poison based like the Aphotic line but doesnt cause a coughing effect like in the past.     Yet the Aphotic line still does.</font></p><p><font size="2">4.) <strong>The Aphotic Line</strong> ~  Ok cut us a break here...we're NOT doing crazy dps by any means so why the 3 sec. cast time??     It would be nice considering our slow slow kill speed,  to have a 2 sec. cast.</font></p><p><font size="2">5.) <strong>Raids</strong> ~  Consideration for some or a couple of our group only spells to be cast raid wide.     Not having this limits our effectiveness.</font></p><p><font size="2">6.) <strong>Eerie Avenger line</strong> ~ !!!   Umm...was it a stealth nerf not to allow it to consistantly protect us anymore or is it broken??</font></p><p><font size="2">7.) <strong>VoA</strong> ~ hmm...what <em>hasn't </em> been said about this spell.    I see no hope here</font></p><p><font size="2">8.) <strong>Fear Chant Line</strong> ~  Now normally i wouldnt bring this up but being on a PvP server makes me do so...  why is this line only a 6 sec. fear when our single fear spell is 16 sec?    Why doesnt this Fear upgrade as per the new update to fear effects.  ( increasing in duration with higher lvl spells )</font></p><p><font size="2">                                      9 , 10 ,11 ,12. ~  <strong>Our AA tree from top to bottom</strong> ....sigh    </font></p><p><font size="2"></font> </p><p><font size="2">~ Marius Darkchyld ~     56 Defiler </font></p><p><font size="2">       * Talisman *            Nagafen</font></p><p><font size="2"></font> </p><p><font size="2"></font> </p><p><font size="2"></font> </p><p><font size="2"></font> </p><p>Message Edited by MalkorGodchyld on <span class="date_text">03-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:45 AM</span></p>

[Broomhilda]

<div></div>Updated.  This is going on the S&C forums today.

[Broomhilda]

<div></div><p>Posted on S&C here:  <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=10016" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=10016</a></p><p> </p><p>Please add any additional comments there.  Thank you!</p>

[Raff]

<div>I read the spell forum post and wanted to say thanks for your efforts here. I do agree with the issues brought up, especially w/ our bane line and other rarely used spells.</div><div> </div><div>I do have thoughts regarding the sta debuff lines, although they have been mentioned long ago and are somewhat implied if you read the threads. I've done parse testing in the past where we repeatedly kill the same mob type and extrapulate total damage done w/ w/out sta debuffs applied. This was last April and I'd considered it dated info for obvious reasons. What i did learn then was the sta debuff worked as intended, it just wasn't obvious to grp members until you did the parse math and informed them what I was doing. Back then, it did appear we were "healing" the mob; even though we weren't. Once the sta debuff wore off, the total HP pool would return, but effective health stayed constant and did not increase. It's not clear (for me) how the sta debuffs work once the mob has already taken damage either. It "appears" the sta debuffs are less effective if the mob is not at full health. This could be fact or fiction, it's too much work to parse and evaluate, especially w/ epic encounters.</div><div> </div><div>Perhaps Ixnay or Broom could update specifically the logging points. I'd like better logging for our debuffs. UI fixes would be nice, but accurate logging would be even more useful IMO. It would be fantastic if the log would read something like:</div><div> </div><div>Malignancy stamina debuffs %t for x hp of y total HP  (where x is actual hp removed and y is total mob HP pool at time of application - assume other sta debuffs from other classes may be applied which is why it would be at time of application)</div><div>Malignancy expires, %t HP pool total returns to y</div><div> </div><div>These are examples of course and could use feedback for more effective presentation. I think they convey the idea.</div><div> </div><div>Hope you agree.</div>