(from a fury who cares) is your aggro borked?

[markdevox]

<div>Serious question.</div><div> </div><div>My mrs. plays a defiler, I play a fury.  We're quite often the duo healing team for groups and do a lot of raiding.  For the past few days we've noticed that on raids and in groups a lot of mobs are heading straight for her when the tank pulls.</div><div> </div><div>A mystic friend of ours thought it might be the group mit buff, so she cancelled hers in the theory that I'd get the aggro with my group mit buff if that was the case.  The mobs still went for her.</div><div> </div><div>Even if she does nothing at all on the pull other than stand there, she's usually the basic target for any stray mobs that the tank fails to grab, and quite often if the tank pulls a group then a couple of the group mobs head for her.  This has been happening in several different group combinations, with different tanks, and on a shimmering citadel raid the frogs had a passion for her too.  It's not that she's the lowest in the group either.  She's 63 and with a group where 2 others were 61 she still attracted the aggro.</div><div> </div><div>So we're a bit mystified as to why she keeps getting spanked on the pull.  Has anyone got any ideas?  Or is defiler aggro bugged again like it was in the early days?</div>

[Ultharion]

It happens to me as well. It usually occurs when the main tank (or someone else) moves out of buff range, aggros something and comes back into aggro range. I think our buffs, and especially the group ward, trigger a smidgen of aggro in the mobs when the aggroed group member comes back into range, as if we just cast them freshly on them. It's exacerbated when a tank just pulls with a ranged attack rather than a taunt (or group taunt for group mobs), or fails to apply a taunt/taunts before he moves back into range. I've learned to anticipate it, and deal with it, but it can get frustrating if the tank/puller is shakey, still learning the art.It's not new though. I remember it happening with my original defiler back at release in fact. But it could have come and left, as I did take a substantial break last year.

[markdevox]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ultharion wrote:It happens to me as well. It usually occurs when the main tank (or someone else) moves out of buff range, aggros something and comes back into aggro range. I think our buffs, and especially the group ward, trigger a smidgen of aggro in the mobs when the aggroed group member comes back into range, as if we just cast them freshly on them. It's exacerbated when a tank just pulls with a ranged attack rather than a taunt (or group taunt for group mobs), or fails to apply a taunt/taunts before he moves back into range. I've learned to anticipate it, and deal with it, but it can get frustrating if the tank/puller is shakey, still learning the art.It's not new though. I remember it happening with my original defiler back at release in fact. But it could have come and left, as I did take a substantial break last year.<hr></blockquote>Yeah I know the group ward provokes a small amount of aggro but it feels like there's been some significant change to the way it's been working up to present, that's happened in the past week-ish.   Wondering if any other defiler has noticed a sudden increase in their aggro generation recently.

[Sokolov]

I just chalk it up to being the best healers in the game! =D<div></div>

[markdevox]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Sokolov wrote:I just chalk it up to being the best healers in the game! =D<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Debatable :smileytongue: but heck, you guys are awesome on raids and make a great healing partner in a group for either a cleric or a druid.  With more DPS you'd be spot on.  It's just a shame that parsers don't include ward amounts as heals, I think a lot of the time people don't realise how amazingly valuable a shaman is and defilers/mystics miss out on a lot of the glory they should get.</p><p>Anyhow if anyone notices any new aggro happening and thinks "hmm that didn't used to happen" please post here.</p><p>Message Edited by markdevox on <span class="date_text">03-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:32 PM</span></p>

[NimSul]

<div>There has been a bug for a long time where a random person would get tagged as aggro magnet for some totally unknow reason. This would lead to mobs that wasnt taunted on pull due to whatever would head straight for this person. Even if afk nakked with no buffs up this person would get aggro. The person would usually be that same, but by reloggin the "tag" could be passed to someone else.</div><div> </div><div>Dunno if its still in, i would assume it isand sounds like this is what your experiensing, it sux.</div>

[markdevox]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>NimSul wrote:<div>There has been a bug for a long time where a random person would get tagged as aggro magnet for some totally unknow reason. This would lead to mobs that wasnt taunted on pull due to whatever would head straight for this person. Even if afk nakked with no buffs up this person would get aggro. The person would usually be that same, but by reloggin the "tag" could be passed to someone else.</div><div> </div><div>Dunno if its still in, i would assume it isand sounds like this is what your experiensing, it sux.</div><hr></blockquote>Nope it's definitely just my missus' defiler who gets consistently singled out. The in joke is that it's her perfume :smileyhappy:</div><p>Message Edited by markdevox on <span class="date_text">03-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:01 PM</span></p>

[Ishnar]

<div></div><p>If the tank attacks before my ward fails then I can pull aggro. If the taunt is resisted I can pull aggro if my AoE mini-ward refreshes immediatly after the attack and the group isn't at full health.  Then there is that issue of the tank running in and out of my AoE range.  Rarely do I pull due my mini-ward but I do have to tell the tank to slow down when I get one of those tanks that likes to chain pull.</p><p> </p>

[NimSul]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>markdevox wrote:<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>NimSul wrote:<div>There has been a bug for a long time where a random person would get tagged as aggro magnet for some totally unknow reason. This would lead to mobs that wasnt taunted on pull due to whatever would head straight for this person. Even if afk nakked with no buffs up this person would get aggro. The person would usually be that same, but by reloggin the "tag" could be passed to someone else.</div><div> </div><div>Dunno if its still in, i would assume it isand sounds like this is what your experiensing, it sux.</div><hr></blockquote>Nope it's definitely just my missus' defiler who gets consistently singled out. The in joke is that it's her perfume :smileyhappy:</div><p>Message Edited by markdevox on <span class="date_text">03-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:01 PM</span></p><p></p><hr><p>Sorry i forgot to say, this "random" person is usually the same person every time. Like we on raids always had a templar with this thing, week after week after week he would be ganked by this bug. Then when he relogs it passes on to a warden and so on. It definitly sounds like the same your experiencing.</p></blockquote>

[Sokolov]

<span><blockquote><hr>NimSul wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>markdevox wrote:<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>NimSul wrote:<div>There has been a bug for a long time where a random person would get tagged as aggro magnet for some totally unknow reason. This would lead to mobs that wasnt taunted on pull due to whatever would head straight for this person. Even if afk nakked with no buffs up this person would get aggro. The person would usually be that same, but by reloggin the "tag" could be passed to someone else.</div><div> </div><div>Dunno if its still in, i would assume it isand sounds like this is what your experiensing, it sux.</div><hr></blockquote>Nope it's definitely just my missus' defiler who gets consistently singled out. The in joke is that it's her perfume :smileyhappy:</div><p>Message Edited by markdevox on <span class="date_text">03-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:01 PM</span></p><p></p><hr><p>Sorry i forgot to say, this "random" person is usually the same person every time. Like we on raids always had a templar with this thing, week after week after week he would be ganked by this bug. Then when he relogs it passes on to a warden and so on. It definitly sounds like the same your experiencing.</p></blockquote><hr></blockquote>So he stayed logged in week after week?  or did he relog and it didn't fix it... and then after weeks and weeks of playing and relogging suddenly one relog fixed it?</span><div></div>

[TheBladesCaress]

It is usually the person who zones fastest.  To solve the problem, we always get our MT to zone in alone first and then the rest zone in after that.  From then on, the MT is the target of aggro on all raid encounters, even before taunting.  Handy hint.<div></div>

[Nainitsuj]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>markdevox wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Sokolov wrote:I just chalk it up to being the best healers in the game! =D<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Debatable :smileytongue: but heck, you guys are awesome on raids and make a great healing partner in a group for either a cleric or a druid.  With more DPS you'd be spot on.  It's just a shame that parsers don't include ward amounts as heals, I think a lot of the time people don't realise how amazingly valuable a shaman is and defilers/mystics miss out on a lot of the glory they should get.</p><p>Anyhow if anyone notices any new aggro happening and thinks "hmm that didn't used to happen" please post here.</p><p>Message Edited by markdevox on <span class="date_text">03-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:32 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>It's not debatable.  When the other healer classes can do what a shaman does, then it'll be debatable.  For example, I've never seen a lvl 44 fury be the reason why a group of 5 lvl 56 to 60 succeeds where they previously failed. (CQ4, adding wards gave us a chance.)</p><p>And wards can be somewhat tracked.  Look at how much the other healers aren't doing and you get an idea.</p><p>I remember one particular group where it was myself (necro), inquis, defiler (girlfriend), guardian, brig and bruiser.  The inquis was posting the parse of all the group except for himself after each battle.  One fight he actually had the stones to say "Defiler, you're slacking in damage and heals.  Why are you even here?"  Well, I was running the same parse program so I posted his stats.  Epic room in clefts, he did 42dps, healed for a total of 414 (I was afk, and lich ate enough of my hp).  He quickly shut up after that.</p><p> </p><p>Oh, and to the original comment.  Yes, my girlfriend has noticed this happening a lot more than normal.  I also think it has something to do with the going out of range then coming back in to it.  The zerker today was body pulling the mobs and running back to the group.  Or he'd pull with arrows and have to peel the extras off of her.</p>

[Vincenzo]

I wouldn't say my agro is borked.I would say I'm getting agro as Sony intended.If i have any kind of ward (even a leftover one) on the group/puller when he pulls, any additional mobs in the ecounter will always go for me. They don't pass go, they don't collect 200, they go for me.I assumed this is the intended way.Nadir, Splitpaw<p>Message Edited by Vincenzo on <span class="date_text">03-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:25 AM</span></p>

[NimSul]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sokolov wrote:<span>So he stayed logged in week after week?  or did he relog and it didn't fix it... and then after weeks and weeks of playing and relogging suddenly one relog fixed it?</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>This happened every time we entered a raid zone, of the people to zone in opening the instance 1 toon would have this tag. If this templar was in the raid he would have the tag every time, if he wasnt the warden would have it and so on. If the templar relogged in the instance the tag was passed on down the line.

[snarfodg]

I don't know if it's borked or if SOE intended it to work this way. My main is a 63 Defiler and there is the ongoing joke that I'm the aggro magnet in any given encounter. I can usually overcome it by using my fear AE/de-aggro... and in case it's resisted or the tank isn't paying attention I also have a macro that says 'GET THIS S__T OFF ME!' <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I just live with it. I'd rather have that aggro generation as a downside and keep everything else. I would hate to see SOE 'fixing the problem' by making our wards half-strength to compensate...

[Sokolov]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>snarfodg wrote:I don't know if it's borked or if SOE intended it to work this way. My main is a 63 Defiler and there is the ongoing joke that I'm the aggro magnet in any given encounter. I can usually overcome it by using my fear AE/de-aggro... and in case it's resisted or the tank isn't paying attention I also have a macro that says 'GET THIS S__T OFF ME!' <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I just live with it. I'd rather have that aggro generation as a downside and keep everything else. I would hate to see SOE 'fixing the problem' by making our wards half-strength to compensate...<hr></blockquote>Interestingly, a point that never seems to be brought up is that point for power, both reactives and regens are more power efficient than wards, which prevent less damage than the other two types heal (addendum: about 25% less).</span></div><p>Message Edited by Sokolov on <span class="date_text">03-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:22 PM</span></p>

[snarfodg]

Good point, Sokolov. I would assume that placing a reactive on the tank before a pull doesn't generate the level of animosity for the cleric as I seem to make if I pre-ward before a pull.

[Vincenzo]

Well I experienced my first "voodoo agro" tonight.Was the clay golem named in Runnyeye.Tank had no wards on him. No heals were cast. Pull was slightly dodgy, he pulled 1 group and got 2 I think.adds and named went straight for me.--Only thing i had up before they hit me was Tendrils of Fear on the tank. But i was assuming the agro from this goes to the tank, and not me...or does it?Someone in the group mentioned something about "intelligent" named mobs. If that's the case and they automatically go for the healer I think that's quite cool <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />--Nadir

[Feanor Baugl]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Vincenzo wrote:Someone in the group mentioned something about "intelligent" named mobs. If that's the case and they automatically go for the healer I think that's quite cool <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />--Nadir<hr></blockquote>I'm not 100% sure but I think that was implemented a awhile ago, I only see it when the tanks taunts get resisted, I don't ward or heal when the tank pulls an "inte.. mob" the taunt gets resisted, the mob goes straight for me or the nearest healer. If it wasnt inplemented then mobs just like to kill me first which I would find a bit disturbing <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></div>

[DarkEle]

<div></div>I have heard there is a bug with buffs and invisibility that has come up recently.  It sounds similar.  Basically, when group members come back into range, group buffs (and some weapon procs) get reapplied, which causes invisibility to drop.  I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing is happening here.  When the tank comes back into range, the buff gets reapplied, which adds aggro to the buffer.

[jfleming2003]

About 75% of the time my guild raids, I am the first and sometimes the only member to fall because of aggro. I pull aggro whether my wards are up or not, but 9 times out of 10 I won't ward until tank has the mobs under control.There is something with our buffs that the mobs really don't like. I almost want to say it's our personal buff which is a regen but /shrug.I've learned to deal with it and if I see the mobs running for me I just stay put and wait for the fun to begin. I've noticed though that if I don't ward before pull and by some miracle I don't get aggro the Fury ends up biting the dust.

[Ixnay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>markdevox wrote:<div>Serious question.</div><div> </div><div>My mrs. plays a defiler, I play a fury.  We're quite often the duo healing team for groups and do a lot of raiding.  For the past few days we've noticed that on raids and in groups a lot of mobs are heading straight for her when the tank pulls.</div><div> </div><div>A mystic friend of ours thought it might be the group mit buff, so she cancelled hers in the theory that I'd get the aggro with my group mit buff if that was the case.  The mobs still went for her.</div><div> </div><div>Even if she does nothing at all on the pull other than stand there, she's usually the basic target for any stray mobs that the tank fails to grab, and quite often if the tank pulls a group then a couple of the group mobs head for her.  This has been happening in several different group combinations, with different tanks, and on a shimmering citadel raid the frogs had a passion for her too.  It's not that she's the lowest in the group either.  She's 63 and with a group where 2 others were 61 she still attracted the aggro.</div><div> </div><div>So we're a bit mystified as to why she keeps getting spanked on the pull.  Has anyone got any ideas?  Or is defiler aggro bugged again like it was in the early days?</div><hr></blockquote><p>This has happened to me since the beginning of DoF.  Actually it started happening in the LU 13 update.  Defiler aggro is way bugged, I've reported this and posted about it till im blue in the face. </p><p>In any raid, with me doing absolutely nothing and not prewarding or anything, any time the tank pulls a multi mob encounter, all the mobs will initially target and head to me rather than the tank that pulled them.  Any time a mob "pops" nearby, whether i'm in a group or raid, that mob will immediately target and agro me before anyone else in the guild.</p><p>I get hit more often than any other healer in my guild, by far.  I've come to accept that this problem is not going to be fixed at any time in the near future, because they can't figure out what causes it, or why it is happening.  It does not relate to any one of my buffs, I've tried leaving them all off, individually and in every possible combination.  This is simply a big mystery.</p><p>But I really like everything else about my class at this time, and have therefore tried to adapt.  I only take the highest mitigation gear I can find, and also the highest avoidance.  I have higher mit than any other chain class in my guild, which I need because I'm frequently hit by, and can usually live through, one or two epic x4 raid mob hits.</p><p>Again, the problem I'm describing above is totally unrelated to anything involving my individual game play.  The agro I'm describing occurs only on first mob agro, when the tank initially pulls, or the mob intially pops.  I've probably spent 100 p since LU13 in mender fees because of this problem.</p>

[Nainitsuj]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ixnay wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>markdevox wrote:<div>Serious question.</div><div> </div><div>My mrs. plays a defiler, I play a fury.  We're quite often the duo healing team for groups and do a lot of raiding.  For the past few days we've noticed that on raids and in groups a lot of mobs are heading straight for her when the tank pulls.</div><div> </div><div>A mystic friend of ours thought it might be the group mit buff, so she cancelled hers in the theory that I'd get the aggro with my group mit buff if that was the case.  The mobs still went for her.</div><div> </div><div>Even if she does nothing at all on the pull other than stand there, she's usually the basic target for any stray mobs that the tank fails to grab, and quite often if the tank pulls a group then a couple of the group mobs head for her.  This has been happening in several different group combinations, with different tanks, and on a shimmering citadel raid the frogs had a passion for her too.  It's not that she's the lowest in the group either.  She's 63 and with a group where 2 others were 61 she still attracted the aggro.</div><div> </div><div>So we're a bit mystified as to why she keeps getting spanked on the pull.  Has anyone got any ideas?  Or is defiler aggro bugged again like it was in the early days?</div><hr></blockquote><p>This has happened to me since the beginning of DoF.  Actually it started happening in the LU 13 update.  Defiler aggro is way bugged, I've reported this and posted about it till im blue in the face. </p><p>In any raid, with me doing absolutely nothing and not prewarding or anything, any time the tank pulls a multi mob encounter, all the mobs will initially target and head to me rather than the tank that pulled them.  Any time a mob "pops" nearby, whether i'm in a group or raid, that mob will immediately target and agro me before anyone else in the guild.</p><p>I get hit more often than any other healer in my guild, by far.  I've come to accept that this problem is not going to be fixed at any time in the near future, because they can't figure out what causes it, or why it is happening.  It does not relate to any one of my buffs, I've tried leaving them all off, individually and in every possible combination.  This is simply a big mystery.</p><p>But I really like everything else about my class at this time, and have therefore tried to adapt.  I only take the highest mitigation gear I can find, and also the highest avoidance.  I have higher mit than any other chain class in my guild, which I need because I'm frequently hit by, and can usually live through, one or two epic x4 raid mob hits.</p><p>Again, the problem I'm describing above is totally unrelated to anything involving my individual game play.  The agro I'm describing occurs only on first mob agro, when the tank initially pulls, or the mob intially pops.  I've probably spent 100 p since LU13 in mender fees because of this problem.</p><hr></blockquote>What you described is what my g/f goes through daily.  She too is living with it, hoping it gets fixed.

[Daisy Lou]

I've noticed this problem since the game started.  My boyfriend has a level 60 mystic and I always saw him stealing aggro off the pull.  It has to be the shaman buffs, and I made a defiler and saw the same thing.  Now, I try to stay close to the tank on the pull so that it's less likely he'll go out of range of my buffs and also don't cast the first ward until the tank has landed a taunt and then usually things run like clockwork.  I just then have to remember to back away from the tank for max range fights.<div></div>

[Trum_shami]

wards on pull = dead warder especially grp ward creates alot of aggro.If no wards are on tank, there is funny script (I think) wich increases aggro lvl of mobs toward healer. For example it happens quite often in halls of fame that mobs after pull ignore tank and screaming 'Killl the healer' rush directly on healer who stands next to them, but typically single taunt stops their intentions <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Also in halls there is funny event where mobs rush directly to healer. Therefore I think its intended that healer gets aggro before tank from time to time.<div></div>

[sirmamabe]

It is ward agro.  Do not forget that some of the group buffs also ward.  If you are getting agro on pull do not cast wards of any kind.  If you are still getting agro, take off the warding group buff and cast after pull. I find that ward agro comes and goes.  I get the feeling that sony is still trying to find that happy spot for us on the agro meter.Doloris - 68 defiler<div></div>

[jfleming2003]

<blockquote><hr>sirmamabear wrote:It is ward agro.  Do not forget that some of the group buffs also ward.  If you are getting agro on pull do not cast wards of any kind.  If you are still getting agro, take off the warding group buff and cast after pull. I find that ward agro comes and goes.  I get the feeling that sony is still trying to find that happy spot for us on the agro meter.Doloris - 68 defiler<div></div><hr></blockquote>Even without casting wards, I still pull aggro. I don't use the ward buff because it is interfering with some other healer buffs. Even without using these, aggro is still crazy and I still die on pull...alot. Maybe not as much as with the wards and buffs, but still way more than I should.

[markdevox]

<div></div><p>My missus still draws aggro even when she's cancelled all group buffs and doesn't ward on the pull.  Bewildered about it really.</p><p>It definitely feels like something to do with mob range on the pull though.</p>

[markdevox]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>TheBladesCaress wrote:It is usually the person who zones fastest.  To solve the problem, we always get our MT to zone in alone first and then the rest zone in after that.  From then on, the MT is the target of aggro on all raid encounters, even before taunting.  Handy hint.<div></div><hr></blockquote>This sounds like it might be along the right lines, my missus has a very fast PC with SATA hard disks for good measure.  She's normally a very quick zoner.

[Karihi]

<div>I have the quick zone combo with the ward buff and add to that tanks pulling outside of the buff range, then it seems to the mob that i had buffed the person again when they came back in, instantly pulling them to me.  I have now, left the ward buff off and either cast it in battle as needed, or throw up the solo target increase in health/power buff on another member.  And I also started running part ways with the tank as they go to pull, no one usually complains as that stops them from jumping me right afterwards. =)</div><div> </div><div>That tip about having them zone in first then they are usually the primary target, noticed that a lot.</div>