New Defile

[THteampink]

I gotta say, I have Master 1 Defile, and I absolutely love it.  Definitely a change in the right direction. <div></div>

[Ixnay]

<div>SWEET!  In today's patch notes:</div><div> </div><div>- Defiler: Defile causes enemies near the defiler to receive greater damage as they become closer to death.- Mystic: Bolster had its percentages slightly lowered.</div><div> </div><div>I'm now satisfied and believe mystics and defilers again are equally desireable in raiding guilds and MT groups.</div><div> </div><div>I'm thrilled that they listened to us.</div><div> </div><div>THANK YOU SOE!</div>

[Yudadie]

<div></div>Can anyone post some kinda of numbers???

[THteampink]

<div></div>Basically, you do 89 more damage per tic per every 10% at master 1.  So basically the amount of damage doubles, triples, etc per every 10% the mob is down.This is with 88 int btw<div></div><p>Message Edited by THteampink on <span class="date_text">03-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:37 PM</span></p>

[NimSul]

<div></div>This still doesnt change a thing about defile, its still a joke. Im a HEALER i dont want my class defining spells to be dps spells, especially not when other healers get something that accually boost their main abilities. It still sux. We have 3 ae's thats more than most other classes and we are healers, come on here this is a joke.

[IngridS]

<div>Waaaaaa!!!!! I want a Master!</div>

[Ixnay]

<div></div><div>Guys, before posting that you don't like this, trust me, try it.  IMO it freaking owns now.  Sure, its not a debuff, but when you try it, I believe you will agree that its very nice.  It's hard to explain, but I just cast this on a level 30 deer herd, and it took me a second and reading about the spell to figure out why they all died immediately.  Please, before posting that you don't like it, try it out, I'm pretty impressed with what it does.</div><div> </div><div>Dude seriously, cast this on a group of either low OR high level mobs at various levels of health, and you will see the application.  This is not only fun, but you will see the point once you try it.</div><p>Message Edited by Ixnay on <span class="date_text">03-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:26 PM</span></p>

[NimSul]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ixnay wrote:<div></div><div>Guys, before posting that you don't like this, trust me, try it.  IMO it freaking owns now.  Sure, its not a debuff, but when you try it, I believe you will agree that its very nice.  It's hard to explain, but I just cast this on a level 30 deer herd, and it took me a second and reading about the spell to figure out why they all died immediately.  Please, before posting that you don't like it, try it out, I'm pretty impressed with what it does.</div><div> </div><div>Dude seriously, cast this on a group of either low OR high level mobs at various levels of health, and you will see the application.  This is not only fun, but you will see the point once you try it.</div><p>Message Edited by Ixnay on <span class="date_text">03-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:26 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I really dont care how much damage it does. If i wanted to do dps i would be a dps class ......

[Ixnay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>NimSul wrote:I really dont care how much damage it does. If i wanted to do dps i would be a dps class ......<hr></blockquote>I hear you man, I'm just saying that once you try it, you just may change your mind.  I did, and I'm sold on it now.

[Facedown]

Well im glad they payed attention to our posts and got it fixed in a fairly quick manor.Granted theres still more issues to address, im still happy about the change and cant wait to try it out when I ding.<div></div>

[Gravewolf]

Glad it's working properly now <span>:smileyhappy:</span><div></div>

[arieste]

<div></div>out of the groups and raids you are usually in, how many multi tank and focus on bringining down more than one target at the same time so as to allow this AE to be of benefit?out of the groups and raids you are usually in, how often are you counted on for DPS?out the raids you are usually in, what priority does nuking take to healing, warding and debuffing?this spell is a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing stupid joke, no matter how great it is in taking down solo con deer herds.i am NOT a deer herder! i am a healer!<div></div><p>Message Edited by arieste on <span class="date_text">03-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:45 PM</span></p>

[Inqr]

<div></div><p>Personally, I am a lvl 64 Defiler who LOVES to solo and HATES to Raid times 4's. Times 2 are great because you can 1 group them and lotto the loot. Once you get into DKP, waiting for people to show up, waiting for the groups to be arranged, wipe a few times on hard mobs, ect...I completely lose interest. Defiler can heal, Defiler can buff, what was low? DPS was low. Thank your for the fix SOE. Now if we could get OUR OWN AA trees and a more Defiler-ish looking pet i'd be over-joyed.</p><p> </p><p>                                     Zardoz </p><p>                                      Befallen</p>

[Raff]

<div></div><div></div><p>Resisting the urge to say... told ya so =)  And nimsul, go away - I dont want to be a dps class im a healer class wha wha. You are a great healer now and you are a healer that resembles necros/warlocks, its in the design. You dont like it, reroll a cleric. Either way - quit whining.</p><p>Gnarly</p><p>Message Edited by Raffta on <span class="date_text">03-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:21 PM</span></p>

[Vincenzo]

Nimsul, out of interest why did you choose Defiler over Mystic?I chose Defiler because Mystic looked too close to what I've already been playing, I wanted something with a twist, and I noticed Defiler was a really unpopular class choice on my server. Spells like Defile have the potential to add that twist that I was looking for. The AoE fear for example, the one that lets us lose some threat at the same time. I LOVE this ability. It's fun and functional. The distill soul to give us a consumable heal item. I loved that too. OK it's not class defining or very powerful, but it has saved my bacon at least once, especially since I am actually healing with my Health when i use the direct heals.If you are so keen on being 100% healer with no damage abilities, why didn't you go with Mystic? I did a very quick scan of the spell listings on the offical Sony site before i rolled up my Defiler (many of the spells were listed with vague or incorrect data) and it really seemed clear to me that Mystic was designed as the better (pure) healer, and that defiler might have some interesting debuff/DoT abilities instead.--Back on topic: It's good to see you were not ignored.

[NimSul]

<div></div><p>Its all very good and well that you guys knew everything about how the class would be when you chose it. Back when i rolled my defiler this info wasnt there. I read the official class descriptions on this very site and back then there was no real difference between how "pure" a healer a defiler would be compared to a mystic. I chose Defiler based on that i wanted to play a iksar and the evil side sounded cooler. "draw the strenghts from his enemies and use it to augment his allies". I had 5 characters at lvl 15+ before i had 1 at 25+, i chose my class based on how it played in game and not how some vauge at best description of it.</p><p>I do not want us to have 0 damage ability at all, i would love to see healers get stances (a bit like WOW, omg im gonna get flamed by this). We could get a dps stance that severely reduces our healing abilitys but enables us to do decent dps. Or check this idear, i think its amazing: <u>If you want to increase the damege a defiler can do maybe you should increase the damage our damage spells does ?!</u> And not give us another damage spell, we are HEALERS and that is what we do, make imprecation a 2k nuke like the furys nuke and wow thats a insta dps increase right there, problem solved. Im a believer in that if you got a problem you should fix that problem and not make something totally new to try and upset the damage the original problem has caused. Its like if theres too hot inside in winter you dont open a window, you turn down the heating.</p>

[jfleming2003]

I am in a raiding guild on Butcherblock server so therefore healing and warding come first and foremost. If at any time I get those few free seconds between wards, I'll throw in a few debuffs. So from a raiding stand-point, I'm extremely upset with the fact that I got another dmg spell instead of another ward, heal or buff.IMO this spell should be encounter based, not a true AE...As far as soloing I really like the fact that I can kill that much faster...even if it is only every 2 minutes. Besides the recast time...the problem is that using a true AE is totally situational. If I'm not able to use it, then I'm back to square one...taking 20 mins to kill a single down even con'd mob. *sigh*As far as grping...I'm usually with a chanter so true AEs are out of the question entirely.Now, if this wasn't my class defining spell, I would honestly have nothing to complain about. It really actually is a good spell, even if situational...but all classes have those types of spells. I do have to admit though that since this is the spell that represents my class, I'm extremely upset over it. "Defiler" and "DPS" just don't go together...never have...why all of a sudden now are they saying we are? I mean, if this is the spell that defines us, doesn't it sound like they're trying to say we're a DPS class?

[zonedbob]

<div></div><p>The Devs listened. Thats good enough for me. They listened to our concerns and made some changes. How mad are the mystics now?</p><p>I'm really looking forward to trying it out. But we have to bear in mind that the game caters for different sorts of players: hardcore raiders, casual raiders, casual players who group, casual players who solo and even, weirdly, hardcore solo-ers (they do exist, my guild leader is one). Putting in new stuff to vary up the class play keeps it interesting. If you don't want to use the spell, don't use it. We still have essential wards. If you don't like the pet, don't summon it. If you want to DoT over debuff, cast 'em first, and vice versa. The game design has to reflect the different priorities of different players.</p><p>The game will evolve. Classes will change. Change is good provided we don't get nerfed for the benefit of other classes. The Devs improved the power of the spell and reduced the mystics' buff. That addresses the balance issues that we all posted about. But we can't seriously expect them either to leave the game static or to introduce new stuff which only goes to enable us to do the same stuff with bigger numbers. So not everyone is gonna like the change.Call me a fanboi - but I think the changes they made are a reasoned response to our well founded concerns, and the Dev team deserve a pat on the back for that.</p>

[Vincenzo]

Good comments.Was the 65 spell hailed as being "class defining"? I mean...that's what Sony told you to expect? If so then yes I can totally understand the raiding Defilers (I intend to be one) being cheesed off about it.I am a newbie, and only recently came to the game, with no expectations about class defining level 65 spells or anything else. That might explain my general wide eyed optimism.If the Mystics got a heal out of this, and we got DPS, then that really sucks, UNLESS THAT DPS IS MINDBLOWING.The reason I say this is that I have seen how pitiful our DPS is. I parsed it myself. I was actually EXCITED when i saw the pet adds up to 4 dps. This gives you an idea of how low it was to start with. (At the time I parsed, solo over a 4 hour session I was 18 dps at around level 25)--Now hold your horses I hear you saying. What about class balance....you can't have it all.I totally agree. However if it is true that:1. Both Defiler and Mystic are a buff/heal/debuff class on raids2. Both get a "class defining" and powerful spell at 65.3. They get a spell which boosts one of their primary functions.4. We get a spell that boost our weakest functionConclusion:That sucks. UNLESS that DPS is mind blowing. e.g. doubles / triples our DPS.--zonedbob you are right, the class will change. It will develop. I actually find that fun too. Yes there are some different types of players out there. However Sony will have to focus on one style of play imo, otherwise the class will end up either watered down and useless or totally overpowered and unbalanced. It's very hard to have your cake and eat it in these matters.Everything else aside, YES the Dev team do deserve a pat on the back. This is a balance change just weeks after the release of the expansion. That kind of timeline is almost unheard of usually at Sony. Balance fixes can and usually do take months (while being exploited by the powergamers) in my experience with Sony.Or is this par for the course with Sony in EQ2?--Shannah. When i first saw the spell i had the same idea. Use this for doing AoE damage to speed up our ability to solo on green content.What's wrong with a true AoE? I don't find it too hard to pull to a clear area most of the time. Or do the high level zones have thousand of wandering but indifferent mobs running through your pulls? Remember making it encounter based has a downside too. Means we then can't use it on a really heavy AoE pull that we intend to AoE the hell out of in a warlock/wizard group.regards,Nadir, Splitpaw<p>Message Edited by Vincenzo on <span class="date_text">03-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:29 AM</span></p>

[MilkToa]

<div></div><p>SOE listened? What are you talking about? The spell was bugged so they fixed it; now it works as originally designed - period. They made no changes to the spell based on user input, if they had it wouldn't be a damage spell. I'm glad some people like even though I'm one of the people that don't.</p><p>Also, out of group AOE spells are much more powerful than in group AOE spells. You have to be a little more careful how you use them but the damage potential is substantially greater.</p><p> </p>

[Feanor Baugl]

I find it amusing and sad that people feel the devs should get a pat on the back for what they done with Defile. It's like giving a repairman a pat on the back for fixing ur car.... hmm are u suprised they did it..... I'm not, the spell was broken so it's their job to fix it.I do give them cred for listning to our balance issues, unfortuanatly I don't think nerfing Mystics Bolster as a good way to try to make it balanced, Mystics still has a buff we have a ae dot. They should have left Bolster unchanged (if it wasn't to powerfull compared to all the healing classes, which I find would be odd since it's been tested of beta for awhile then a nerf might have been needed, as far as I can tell its not) and they should have replaced Defile with something totally different but yet balanced to Mystics, If they had done that, then I'd be the first in line to pat them on the back.Sidenote: Has SOE explicitly said that the new lvl 65 spell would be classdefining? if not then that wouldn't be an issue as I see it now, then it would only be the balanced part left. And I'm a bit sad over that as well since they fixed Defile and nerfed Mystic I presume they see it as balanced and they wont change it again.<div></div>

[NurseNam]

<div>Is this spell really fixed? I read the update notes and tried defile out agian.  We had 3 or 4 mobs all at different health, so I thought I would try it and see what happend.  Well for me, I got the exact same dmg output before they said they fixed it. 61 61 61 61 61 61 61  If its supposed to do more dmg the lower the hp's are then why was I only doing 61 dmg?  Maybe its me, but it still doesn't impress me even if it is working properly.  I would rather they just get rid of this spell then take abuse from my guild mates about how sucky it is. If this is what they call "class defining", then we suck. lol</div>

[Ixnay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Feanor Bauglir wrote:I find it amusing and sad that people feel the devs should get a pat on the back for what they done with Defile. It's like giving a repairman a pat on the back for fixing ur car.... hmm are u suprised they did it..... I'm not, the spell was broken so it's their job to fix it.<hr></blockquote><p>I hear what you are saying, and just wanted to respond to this point, not to argue, but to state the reasons why my opinion about this may be different than yours.</p><p>I attended the Fanfaire in Las Vegas a year ago, and was given the wonderful opportunity to spend the day before Fanfaire with most of the EQ2 dev and design team, along with many other invited players and community members.</p><p>Basically, the EQ2 team consists of extremely talented and very nice people.  Many of them average 12 hours work a day or more, and they care very much about the quality of this game and the people who play it.</p><p>Most of the EQ2 team reads these boards at least somewhat, but there are up to thousands of new posts on EQ2players.com each day, and no one human being could possibly read all that information, let alone read most of it and still do other work.  There is so much "noise" coming from these boards that the best way to get any idea or request for change considered is to be polite, constructive, and respectful toward the EQ2team when making the request, and to always act reasonably and only "cry wolf" unless the issue is as big and as important as the Bolster/Defile ones were to us.  I think defilers did act reasonably in this case, the key points of our concerns were heard, and we received some great, prompt assistance from nice people at SoE who felt it was important to help us.</p><p>Given that these people really do care about player satisfaction and take pride in their work, how would you feel if you were in their shoes, and if almost everything you read was from angry customers demanding you to "do your job", but in the way they specified?  If someone said that to me, I wouldn't feel like doing anything nice or extra to help them, even if in fact it was my job.  I'd probably react like a police officer after pulling a motorist over for speeding, and being told that as a taxpayer, the motorist paid the officer's salary, so the officer should see things their way and not write the ticket.  In other words, saying things like this are almost certain to produce a negative result, so why even go there?</p><p>If a nice person in a business you deal with corrects a mistake in a way that helps you, aren't you better off thanking that person, and being nice to them, if for no other reason than you want them to act in a similar way in the future?  The overwhelming odds are that the individual who created Bolster and Defile was not the same person who saw these issues come up on the boards, suggested changes based on board feedback, then approved those changes after bringing them up and discussing them in a dev meeting, then actually coded the changes.  This is more likely the work of several different people.  And I'm extremely thankful, to everyone involved in fixing and making these changes, that out of the hundreds of new player posts every day screaming about narrow problems affecting a class or subclass, they saw our issue, realized it was extremely important to us, and took action to make things right for us.</p><p>So please, we want to reinforce the idea that it is good to help defilers, and when something nice is done for defilers, defilers are usually thankful.  The mystics do a great job at this, we should also.</p><p>I very much understand that some defilers wish our new spell was changed into something totally different, and was a healing type spell rather than a damage type spell.  But redoing the spell entirely to make it something totally different than it started out to be would have created additional controversy and complaints.  It is much much easier to modify a spell or ability in this game based on the argument that it must have been intended to be be more or less powerful or work differently, than to completely scrap and replace the spell or ability with a completely different type of spell.  Folks, that will almost NEVER happen.</p><p>And I also very much believe that we received EXCELLENT service yesterday, and that some talented dev at SoE put a personal touch on this spell and made it a little better in yesterdays patch than in the initial design.  I again say, for those who haven't tried this spell, please wait until you get a chance to use it at 65 before passing judgement on it.  This spell is now very unique and powerful, and if you want to feel awestruck by any one defiler spell and can afford at least the Adept 3 version, I invite you to cast Defile in range of 8 or more mobs (do a set of low level mobs then a set of high level mobs afterwards so you understand how it works) and see what happens.  But that's all I'm going to say, because I believe that if I said more or bragged about this, that might be used against me and our class in the future.</p><p>IMO, Defile gives our class a powerful new ability.  I personally will use this new ability in every group and most raids I'm in when fighting more than one mob at once.  I played for hours using this last night exping on multiple mob encounters, and basically recast it almost as soon as it came up every time.  The only other spells I use this repetitively are our wards and a few of our debuffs.  This is a great new spell, people, and IMO we should be thankful for it.</p>

[Ixnay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>NurseNammy wrote:<div>Is this spell really fixed? I read the update notes and tried defile out agian.  We had 3 or 4 mobs all at different health, so I thought I would try it and see what happend.  Well for me, I got the exact same dmg output before they said they fixed it. 61 61 61 61 61 61 61  If its supposed to do more dmg the lower the hp's are then why was I only doing 61 dmg?  Maybe its me, but it still doesn't impress me even if it is working properly.  I would rather they just get rid of this spell then take abuse from my guild mates about how sucky it is. If this is what they call "class defining", then we suck. lol</div><hr></blockquote><p>From the damage you quoted above, you have the Adept 1 version of this spell.  Yes, it will always show the same exact damage number no matter what the mobs health.  But it will show a very large number of 61s for you, depending on how many mobs were in range when you cast the spell, and the percentage by which the mobs health is decreasing during the 16 seconds the spell is active.  </p><p>Check the spell description - the damage is compounding based on the mobs health.  So if the mob's health is between 90 and 100, you are doing 61 damage to that mob and every other mob in ae range just one time each when you cast the spell.  But the next tick, if the mob's health has fallen to between 80 and 90 percent, you will do 61 damage x 2 to each mob.  And if the spell is still active when the mob's health falls to 10 percent, your chat log will also show that you did 61 damage, but that you damaged each mob for 61 ten times that tick.  And it will do that damage to each mob that was in AE range when you cast the spell.  This damage is based on geometric progression, which IMO is a remarkable idea.  The spell does instant damage of the stated amount when you cast it, then every 2 seconds after that for 16 seconds total.  So you have 9 different chances to do escalating damage based on mob health getting lower and lower, because of the damage the spell and your group members are causing.</p><p>So yes, this spell is at its best with trash mobs rather than x4 epic single encounters with 1 million HP, but this spell is just very good and effective at what it does.</p><p>I bet you didn't scroll up and see how far those 61's went in your chat log.  I'm betting they went to the end of the queue in your chat window, if you had a good number of mobs in range when you cast the spell.</p><p>I suggest getting an adept 3 version of this spell (on Blackburrow, my sage is 66, has this recipe, and I will gladly make this spell for you free if you provide the rough moonstone).</p><p>Thanks</p>

[NurseNam]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ixnay wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>NurseNammy wrote:<div>Is this spell really fixed? I read the update notes and tried defile out agian.  We had 3 or 4 mobs all at different health, so I thought I would try it and see what happend.  Well for me, I got the exact same dmg output before they said they fixed it. 61 61 61 61 61 61 61  If its supposed to do more dmg the lower the hp's are then why was I only doing 61 dmg?  Maybe its me, but it still doesn't impress me even if it is working properly.  I would rather they just get rid of this spell then take abuse from my guild mates about how sucky it is. If this is what they call "class defining", then we suck. lol</div><hr></blockquote><p>From the damage you quoted above, you have the Adept 1 version of this spell.  Yes, it will always show the same exact damage number no matter what the mobs health.  But it will show a very large number of 61s for you, depending on how many mobs were in range when you cast the spell, and the percentage by which the mobs health is decreasing during the 16 seconds the spell is active.  </p><p>Check the spell description - the damage is compounding based on the mobs health.  So if the mob's health is between 90 and 100, you are doing 61 damage to that mob and every other mob in ae range just one time each when you cast the spell.  But the next tick, if the mob's health has fallen to between 80 and 90 percent, you will do 61 damage x 2 to each mob.  And if the spell is still active when the mob's health falls to 10 percent, your chat log will also show that you did 61 damage, but that you damaged each mob for 61 ten times that tick.  And it will do that damage to each mob that was in AE range when you cast the spell.  This damage is based on geometric progression, which IMO is a remarkable idea.  The spell does instant damage of the stated amount when you cast it, then every 2 seconds after that for 16 seconds total.  So you have 9 different chances to do escalating damage based on mob health getting lower and lower, because of the damage the spell and your group members are causing.</p><p>So yes, this spell is at its best with trash mobs rather than x4 epic single encounters with 1 million HP, but this spell is just very good and effective at what it does.</p><p>I bet you didn't scroll up and see how far those 61's went in your chat log.  I'm betting they went to the end of the queue in your chat window, if you had a good number of mobs in range when you cast the spell.</p><p>I suggest getting an adept 3 version of this spell (on Blackburrow, my sage is 66, has this recipe, and I will gladly make this spell for you free if you provide the rough moonstone).</p><p>Thanks</p><hr></blockquote>Ahhh, ok, so I was missing something.  I'm gonna have to try this spell again and check it out.  And yes, you are right, mine is adp1.  I wasn't gonna invest a rare into this spell until I knew for sure what exactly it did.  So, I will check my dmg logs tonite and see how much dmg I'm doing with this and I will repost will my findings.  Thanks for explaining it abit clearer for me Ixnay.

[Ultharion]

<blockquote><hr>Yudadie wrote:<div></div>Can anyone post some kinda of numbers???<hr></blockquote>273.14579

[Ultharion]

By the way, well said Ixnay!

[Sokolov]

I am a player who likes having different abilities - I like having real choices, not choices forced on me by X spell being always better or recast timers.  With that said, this spell, being offensive in nature, is kind of weird for a healer.    Still, as long as it does enough damage to be viable as a choice in a given situation - then I am okay with that.<div></div>

[arieste]

In response to DEVs explicitely saying that this is a class defying spell...it is called "Defile"  what is a "Defiler" supposed to do?  My guess? "Defile". What does this mean?  Our class is meant to do small situation AE damage.If that isnt explicit enough, I don't know what is. Anyhow, if they want to increase damage I suggest starting with the basics, if 2 people have the same exact weapon and the same exact skill at using that weapon and the same exact strengh... the 2 people should do same base damage with this weapon.  None of this priest crappy melee damage when we get 500 strength.a.<div></div>

[Feanor Baugl]

<div></div><p><span>Thanks for </span><span>ur</span><span> reply Ixnay, hope u don't mind me replying to itI'm sure that the EQ2 team is talented and nice and that they put in tons of man hours to keep EQ2 running smoothly as possible. I do appreciate all the work they do. I'm well aware that a forum of this magnitude has lots of noise so it's hard for staff to sort out the important things that we address.When we first found out about Defile we started to post to let SOE know that the spell in it's current state was not something we wanted. As far as I know that spell is intended to be a class defining spell, if that's not the case then my bad. Doesn't really matter tho, Nimsul and many others have said it pretty well. We are healers, and not a dps class and as far as I know the reason all this debate started was because of that and not because the spell was broken.We try to get SOE to change the spell on beta so it wouldn’t even go live in its current form. One reason was as I've said the spell it itself, the second reason was that compared to Mystics Bolster it wasn't and still isn’t balanced so we ask that Defile be changed to better balance it to Mystics spell. During beta people start to post that Defile was broken, it didn’t do more dmg when the mob was nearer to death so they ask that it'll be fixed as well. Still the main issue was that the spell isn’t class defining and it wasn't balanced to Mystics. The majority of people (as far as I can tell anyway) including me felt that with Defile as it is now and Bolster being a buff Defilers would loose their place in raids.To fix this SOE "slightly" nerf Bolster, I think it's 11% or something like that, which I can't really say is slight and they fix the broken issue with Defile nothing more. What happens then is that people get very happy and feel that SOE should get a pat on the back for fixing it. And Even tho I do appreciate all the hard work SOE staff <span> </span>put into EQ2, fixing a broken spell is something I take for granted. And for me fixing the broken issue and nerfing Bolster doesn't adress the main issue that has been debated all this time. The class defining part and the balance issue is still there. I know I'm biased and so is every player so I will always see things from a Defiler point of view and Mystics will do the same. That’s why I feel that the both classes was balanced before </span><span>KOS</span><span> but with the great buff Mystics get (still think it’s awesome even tho the nerf) and that we get an aoe dot it's become unbalanced. I feel that Mystics will be more likely to end up in the place in raids where I feel I should be in and Mystics will be more wanted in groups then Defilers (me). That’s why I find it a bit amusing that people are very quick to just end this hole issue over a fix that I take for granted. And it also makes me sad because all I got from this was seeing a huge nerf on the Mystics and a non resolved issue. But then again I'm not entirely surprised either. Defilers have had problems from day one, some issues have taken very long before it got fixed so most Defilers are used to not having things work 100%, that's why I think many forget quick, or feel ok I should be happy that we at least got a broken spell fixed But I end up with a question:</span></p><p><span>What happened to the main issue? It went from being a unbalanced not class defining spell to a huge nerf<span>  </span>to another class the spell not broken but still not class defining or balanced.</span></p><p><span>Perhaps I should apologise if anyone in EQ2 team feel that I disrespect their work or if I’m not grateful, that’s not the case, I’m just don’t agree u on what class defining is for Defilers nor do I agree that the solution that was done balance the two classed but perhaps its just me. Either way I’ll learn to live with it since I don’t think it’ll be changed again, but it’s as they say Hope is the last thing that leaves a person so I’ll be the first one inline to pat all of u on the back if things would change to what I feel would be right. </span></p><div></div>

[maxa]

LOL just noticed..... after latest update fixed Defile has an apparent bug with spell animation.... now bubbles appear on yourself instead of mobs =) Target of spell changed to Self i guess it has something to do with it.Shamaxaon70 Defiler of XanaduRunnyeye Server<div></div>

[arieste]

thats to add insult to injury, right?<div></div>

[Vincenzo]

I did some trawling on the Mystic section of the forums yesterday.They are whining that we are the better healers and about their Buff which boosts STA vs our health one.--I'm going to wait until i make level 65 and get this spell before I pass judgement.

[Erage]

<div></div><div>Defile is a pulsating AE now instead of a dot so be careful how you use this.  Every 2 seconds (for 16 seconds) it will fire off the AE, hitting anything around you, including anything new that has wandered by after you have already cast it.  It eminates from you as well so I wouldn't move around while this is up unless you dont care to hit anything new.  This also means a mob will have a chance to resist for every pulse of the AE.</div><p>Message Edited by Erage on <span class="date_text">03-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:19 AM</span></p>

[cellpho]

<div></div><div>New defile spell is awesome, does some really good dmg if you can time it right. Apparently each tick is treated as a seperate casting, so it can trigger things like the Rainment of the Skywatcher or Grizzfazzle mace multiple times.</div>

[NimSul]

<div></div>And you can [Removed for Content] up tons of dps with this using "presition of the meistro" and "dissonant node" and grizzle weapon because every wave is a new cast. Loads of possibilities.

[Jas]

Well I don't think Defile is meant to be class defining.  I think it just ended up with the same name as our class, is all.  Someone probably looked at the list and said "Why DON'T they have a spell named Defile?" and this happened to be one of the next on the list.  4 of the 6 priests got a damage spell at 65.  The devs may have looked at it not as a way to give us something class defining, but maybe a way to even things out a little - Mystics and Wardens have been voicing issues about their power level anyways, so giving them non-damage spells and the healers that appear "ok" just got some new damage goodies.Not that we don't have our issues - some really important ones, like buggy group wards, etc, but our actual in-game power level is still up there but its just something I'm resigned to live with.  The change to Defile at least gives it some real punch, and it was changed pretty quick so I'm kind of in the boat of having less and less to complain about.  I think that with Bolster it will truly be a situational issue on who you want in the MT group - Defilers still have better mana regen in the long run, and Tendrils, and SC...Mystics however will be superior when you need Bolster for that difficult pull and the extra hit point buffer.  As long as we are both competitive for the MT group, and at least have *something* to do outside of it, even if some of our really good group-specific stuff is wasted, I can cope.<div></div>

[BrickyardRac]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ixnay wrote:<div></div><p>I very much understand that some defilers wish our new spell was changed into something totally different, and was a healing type spell rather than a damage type spell.  But redoing the spell entirely to make it something totally different than it started out to be would have created additional controversy and complaints.  It is much much easier to modify a spell or ability in this game based on the argument that it must have been intended to be be more or less powerful or work differently, than to completely scrap and replace the spell or ability with a completely different type of spell.  Folks, that will almost NEVER happen.</p><hr></blockquote><div>While I am glad that this spell finally works as intended (apparantly, I'm only 64, but have the adept 1), I would agree with those that think this is a very un-Defiler-ish spell.</div><div> </div><div>I can envision plenty of times when I'll use this spell, but that is mostly going to be when I'm soloing greens and grays for old quests.  Not something I'd like to see in a "class defining" spell.  But at least it apparantly works correctly now.  Just wish whoever decided on what this level 65 spell's effects were going to be would have had a better understanding of what Defilers do.</div>

[Gimmiso]

<div></div>Here's some numbers for ya'sThese shots were taken using Defile and maybe 2 of our debuffs over what were approximately 30 second fights.<img src="http://www.myguysolutions.com/whodigs/Signatures/Parser.jpg">not so bad now that it is fixed, just have to make sure you are in a safe place to use it <span>:smileysurprised:</span>these mobs being 30 second kills in this group meant I could use it every 5th fight, not so bad, but could be better imo, like maybe only 1 min recast. but definitely a good step to get our dps up.(also, the other group members were Guardian,Monk, Necro and Templar level 68+)<div></div><p>Message Edited by Gimmisome on <span class="date_text">03-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:50 AM</span></p>

[sirmamabe]

Defile would make me happy if it was single target.  Aoe's are just simple evil.  I get enough agro from ward/healing. Doloris<div></div>

[jfleming2003]

I have to admit, my stand on Defile has changed. Although, a new heal/ward/buff would be really awesome, It's nice to be able to say every now and then that I actually did some dps.The true AE kills me though, especially it being pulsating. I'm a bit embarassed to admit I died a few too many times before figuring that out. I think it should be encounter based with a slightly less re-use time. It's very situational so many times we can't even use it all because of the AE.

[Broomhilda]

<div></div><div></div>Finally got Defile and I do like it.  Yes I think an uber debuff would hv been better, but having some decent damage is kinda nice.  Im working on my Blight Sage title with the Dismal Rage which means I have to do tons of writs.  I can now run thru them far easier with Defile :smileyhappy:<p>Message Edited by Broomhilda on <span class="date_text">03-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:39 PM</span></p>

[radical_EDWARD]

<div></div><div><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/emanji/defile.jpg"></div><div> </div><div>oooo...... im a dps machine</div><div> </div><div> </div><div><img src="http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/6554/emanji015xy.jpg"></div><p>Message Edited by radical_EDWARD on <span class="date_text">03-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:17 AM</span></p>

[Ixnay]

<div></div><p>Please nobody make bragging posts about Defile without fully explaining its facts and limitations.  It is PBAE.  You can only use it to get good damage when multiple mobs are present.  You have to time casting it so that it is expiring about the same time the mob is dying for maximum effect.  It has a 2 minute refresh, so it's not like you can spam this, in a chain pull group it can be used maybe one out of every 4 encounters. </p><p>Other classes are going to be complaining that we have this, let's not give them the ammunition.  Be honest about what it does, but also make sure you fully disclose the limitations of this spell.</p><p>Thanks</p>

[Broomhilda]

<div></div><p>Agreed.  BTW...</p><p><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=19&message.id=12102">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=19&message.id=12102</a></p><p>::SIGH:: </p>

[Gimmiso]

hmmmwell, seems like a lot of people are still really [Removed for Content] about this spell but perhaps are thinking it should be more than it is, yet i think alot of these thoughts are coming from the fact that defilers have never had a blue ae before. it's not that defile sucks, thats how blue ae's are supposed to be, they cant be used at all times, they are more effective when used on multiple mobs, they do not have incredibly fast recast timers, that is how they were designed. This spell does exactly what it  should do for being a blue ae. for example, Wizards lvl 65 spell, fusion, has the same range as our blue ae and is also only useable every 2 minutes. 5m is really not that big, if you are in a spot that you think might hit more mobs, then don't use it, but I find that if any kos mob around me has not aggro'd then they are out of the range of defile anyway.I do think that this spell is something to brag about, the parses that i posted above were from  SINGLE target encounters... I can't wait to parse a multiple target encounter lol. if you ask me, defile is the awesome dps spell that we have been waiting for. This spell is great to use in fights when you do not have to be healing all the time, or when soloing. I know the recast is slow, I would like it to be faster, but hey, we can't have everything.<div></div>

[Makta]

It is over powered and now it needs the bolster nerf.  Your main defense against bolster was it made us a viable option for the MT group which...gasp...has never been an option for us.  Now that people have an option of a Mystic of a Defiler, you're all up in arms about the whole thing because you might lose your spot.News Flash! Welcome to the world up the Mystic since LU13, we never get in MT group when defilers present.  Your defense has to be better than I WANNA BE MT HEALER!!!! =)<div></div>

[radical_EDWARD]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Maktahr wrote:It is over powered and now it needs the bolster nerf.  Your main defense against bolster was it made us a viable option for the MT group which...gasp...has never been an option for us.  Now that people have an option of a Mystic of a Defiler, you're all up in arms about the whole thing because you might lose your spot.News Flash! Welcome to the world up the Mystic since LU13, we never get in MT group when defilers present.  Your defense has to be better than I WANNA BE MT HEALER!!!! =)<div></div><hr></blockquote>yay.... go go mystic troll <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[posseder]

<div></div>i solo and raid i would have liked something to boost my healing side more then damage side.damage is great the spell is nice but it should be a single target dot since in raid mezzers are used alot and aoe is kinda bad news.it should also have 24 sec duration and a 1 min recast i encourage all of you to feedback this i know i have if the mystic gets the [Removed for Content] buff so be it lets make sure this is [Removed for Content] skill as well.DEFILERS it needs to be single target 24 seconds duration 1 minute recast nothing else.67 defiler everfrost

[Vincenzo]

Broomhilde I think everything you said on the Mystics forum was true, but when i saw your first post I could see the flames about to hit....I chose Defiler because I noticed less Defilers on the server online. Did I really chose the powergamer class of Shamans?I saw in that thread Mystics get an Aoe slow? woah. I've been cursing my single target slow a lot recently. EQ2 seems a very AoE focussed game as soon as you add a wizard or a conjurer to the group.It's nice being a newbie sometimes. You get to feel happy you aren't oldskool and cycnical yet.Nadir, Defiler of Splitpaw

[Ixnay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Broomhilda wrote:<div></div><p>Agreed.  BTW...</p><p><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=19&message.id=12102">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=19&message.id=12102</a></p><p>::SIGH:: </p><hr></blockquote>Broom, thank you for bringing that post to our attention.  Now we have the opportunity to spread the truth and relieve our mystic brethren from the burden of their misinformation and unjustified self-pity.

[Argyuile]

<div>I got my Adept III Defile spell and I absolutly love it, I use it all the time.  Helps finish those quests that normally I didn't have the DPS to do on my own.   Need to mass kill greens?   This is your spell.   I LOVE defile.</div><div> </div><div>Also on the single target vs. AE debuffs.   While I admit that it would be nice to have AE debuffs I prefer the single target.  They are more effective against the named and uber mobs which is when you need the debuffs the most.  I don't know who you guys are grouping with but normally if I'm lucky I can get off one debuff before the mob is already down to 20% health.   Half the time I only worry about debuffing named.</div>

[Vincenzo]

It's going to be interesting to see what the raid game is like.I guess I'm expecting some ring events, or events where many mobs spawn at once. So is our single target slow better than the Mystics' equivalent?--Nadir

[Gimmiso]

<span><blockquote><hr><font color="#0033ff">Argyuile wrote: </font><div><font color="#0033ff">While I admit that it would be nice to have AE debuffs I prefer the single target.  They are more effective against the named and uber mobs which is when you need the debuffs the most.  I don't know who you guys are grouping with but normally if I'm lucky I can get off one debuff before the mob is already down to 20% health.   Half the time I only worry about debuffing named.</font></div><hr></blockquote>Yes!  LOL, finally someone that views our class the way I do. Defile was an amazing way to help us be able to solo all of the grouped mobs that we come across in questing. It was not designed for use on raid mobs, but can be used as a good finishing spell.IMO, Defilers are way better than Mystics, but the fact is, each class is a little different and is balanced but they are not too specific to any one thing. I love that we have the ability to Debuff (which is what we are all about) and help buff our groups, but lets not forget, WE ARE HEALERS!. Our Debuffs are great for Named and Raid mobs as a single target spell. Just like before, T7 raid mobs are typically only single named mob encounters with the possibility of non-named adds. I have yet only seen 1 T7 raid mob that is multiple nameds in 1 encounter (I would compare this group to the Jinrodi (sp???) Encounter of PPR) These encounters will continue to be fought with multiple tank groups. In these types of raid situations, it usually works out best to have a Defiler in the group that is tanking the main Mob (for hp buffs and debuffs) and have a Mystic in the group that is tanking the smaller mobs for their aoe's. Both classes are EQUALLY important in a raid... if the adds dont die fast then we all die... having a mystic in adds group is often more important than having  defiler in MT group.I love being a defiler at level 70, we are once again back on top for the debuffs and MT buffs and can now solo faster too! even though the spirit wolf is weak, he helps, and even though defile is a blue AE, it rocks... just gotta know when not to use it  ;p</span><div></div>

[Mike]

<div></div><p>While this spell is situational it really does boost the DPS. I have the adept 1 version and about 130 int. Last night in a group of a 65 Beserker, 62 Dirge, 64 Conjuror, 64 Conjuror, 65 Mystic and me 65 Defiler I was parsing at about 150-200 dps normally but hit at least 300 dps casting this spell on single mobs. On big groups of mobs I was hitting upwards of 500+ dps with a maximum of 650 once in Nest.</p>

[Raff]

<div></div><p>I'm so pleased folks are happy with defile now.  I truely believe our class needed this spell. It's definately a nod to our old shammy epic. Time to start focusing on my defiler too. Leveling 2 toons is sooo much work =/</p><p>Gnarly, 63 defiler, 65 brigand - kithicor</p>

[Eileithia]

<div></div><p>OK.. I just got to 65 last night.. and Scribed my Master 1 Defile.. Tested it out a little..</p><p>The DPS boost is crazy.. but you would think from the description of the spell that it would not be limited to 3 "Hits" of damage per tick per mob..</p><p>I tested this out at various times in fights in Halls of Fate last night, and whether the mob was at 50% or at 20% it seemed that it would only ever hit 3 times per tick per mob.. if the mobs are at 20% should it not hit 7-8times per tick?</p><p>Don't get me wrong.. It was nice to be parsing at approx 600DPS in a couple 3 mob encounters with Aphotic, Malestrom and Defile.. but I just thougth it would scale all the way down to 10 hits instead of stoping at 3..</p><p>Anyone else notice this?</p>

[Argyuile]

<div>I'm not so much the good with the parsing stuff but,  I know I've seen individual mobs get hit at least 5 times in a tick by this spell as for the 8-9 it should be hitting for in its final ticks of life, I can't speak to that.    A defiler with a good parsing program and some time should check it out to make sure its doing what its supposed to be doing all the way to the end.</div>

[NimSul]

<div></div>The 3 numbers only is just the orange numbers, the rest of the numbers are "under" them sorta speak, but they are there.

[Ixnay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Duntzzzz wrote:<div></div><p>I tested this out at various times in fights in Halls of Fate last night, and whether the mob was at 50% or at 20% it seemed that it would only ever hit 3 times per tick per mob.. if the mobs are at 20% should it not hit 7-8times per tick?</p><p>Don't get me wrong.. It was nice to be parsing at approx 600DPS in a couple 3 mob encounters with Aphotic, Malestrom and Defile.. but I just thougth it would scale all the way down to 10 hits instead of stoping at 3..</p><p>Anyone else notice this?</p><hr></blockquote><p>I'm absolutely, positively sure my defile is hitting 10 times when the mob is below 10 percent, and am pretty confident im getting the proper amount of damage for the other percentage tiers correctly also. </p><p>Cast it on a single raid mob with mega hp when the mob is below 10 percent, for example, and you can see it hit 10 times per tick, for 9 ticks total.  I'm using it at a raid right now.</p>

[Gimmiso]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Ixnay wrote:<div></div> I'm using it at a raid right now.<hr></blockquote><span><span>:smileysurprised:Shouldn't you be paying attention to the raid instead of posting? LOL</span></span></span></div>

[ScareCrow144]

<div></div><p>Yes...you will only see 3 orange numbers on any given tick. The damage is being done though. If you wanna test it, pull a group of green mobs and work them down to about 50% with our group DoT...then cast Defile and watch the hp drop faster and faster.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Aluc 70 Defiler ---- Iniquity</p>

[FornicAysh]

<div>i gotta say that defile is an...umm...interesting spell.  I agree with all the people that say we are a healing class not a dps class and that we should have something to augment our healing / debuffing as our "class defining" spell.</div><div> </div><div>but on the other hand...i can consistently make the top of dps parses in groups now (in the right situations that is)  even beating warlocks and wizards regularly</div><div> </div><div>so im kinda sympathetic to both sides of the argument...[Removed for Content] warlock and wizard dps is always fun, but i still think that we should have had something better suited to our class</div>

[Sokolov]

<span><blockquote><hr>FornicAyshun wrote:<div>[Removed for Content] warlock and wizard dps is always fun..</div><hr></blockquote>Any spell that accomplishes this for a non-DPS class (in any situation) should be considered broken.</span><div></div>

[MilkToa]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sokolov wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>FornicAyshun wrote:<div>[Removed for Content] warlock and wizard dps is always fun..</div><hr></blockquote>Any spell that accomplishes this for a non-DPS class (in any situation) should be considered broken.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>It would be a problem if it were actually true. I have a 70 warlock and a 68 defiler with a master 1 of defile and I'm not [Removed for Content] any warlock's or wizard's DPS with defile. Defile is a fun spell now that it works but the only way I out DPS a sorcerer is on a multi-group pull of trash mobs when the wizard and warlock are afk or to lazy to cast.</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Sokolov]

<span><blockquote><hr>MilkToast wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sokolov wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>FornicAyshun wrote:<div>[Removed for Content] warlock and wizard dps is always fun..</div><hr></blockquote>Any spell that accomplishes this for a non-DPS class (in any situation) should be considered broken.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>It would be a problem if it were actually true. I have a 70 warlock and a 68 defiler with a master 1 of defile and I'm not [Removed for Content] any warlock's or wizard's DPS with defile. Defile is a fun spell now that it works but the only way I out DPS a sorcerer is on a multi-group pull of trash mobs when the wizard and warlock are afk or to lazy to cast.</p><p> </p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>Good. =D</span><div></div>

[DrumDr]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>THteampink wrote:I gotta say, I have Master 1 Defile, and I absolutely love it.  Definitely a change in the right direction. <div></div><hr></blockquote><p>I got it now too.. it is freaking awsome.  I love it.</p><p> </p><p>Drummy</p>

[JoePa]

Not sure the Defiler community saw this post, but look under the Mystic section.....<a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=113">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=113</a>Think that should alleviate some the raid viability issues.

[arieste]

<div></div>I have defiler now and the spell is great.  I still don't think it defines our class but it is a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] awesome spell, useable in almost every possible situation.  So no more complaints from me.I also like that the Mystic's buff has been changed to be raid castable, so they now don't get into MT group by default. cheers.edit:  there is no expletive in my post...just fyi<div></div><p>Message Edited by arieste on <span class="date_text">03-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:42 PM</span></p>

[Ixnay]

<div>My defiler is level 70, I also have a 60 dirge and sk I will probably start leveling soon, unless I go further with the 30ish necro I've recently been playing around with instead.</div><div> </div><div>The reason I point out the above things is to say that I've played around with a good number of classes in this game, and used a good number of spells.</div><div> </div><div>And of all the spells I've ever used, I gotta say that our new Defile is my favorite, and IMO, hands down one of our best and most useful spells.  I couldn't be be more satisfied with it.</div><div> </div><div>I was even lucky enough to find Master 1 Defile on the broker the other day for only 5 p.</div><div> </div><div>So for all these things, I say thank you to whichever EQ2 dev redid this spell for us, I love it, and I truly appreciate your time.  Defile has increased my happiness with my class specifically, and the game in general.  This one spell has balanced out a lot of things as far as I'm concerned, and I can now pretty much say I have no burning issues about my class and I'm very happy with the game in general.</div><div> </div><div>Thanks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[sostrows]

Now that I have this spell and it's working as designed, its a very FUN spell.  Not exactly class defining but what the hell, its a game.Use this with my zerker buddy (mentoring him) to mow down like 10 blossoms in TT the other nite, too funny.He runs off, training 10 mobs, we work mobs down to 2/3 HP for single con blues then ....Defile them.I just wish instead of 3 ticks it would just show the total on each tick.  so instead of 3 x 67 etc it would show 201 for the tick.<div></div>

[MilkToa]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>sostrows wrote:Now that I have this spell and it's working as designed, its a very FUN spell.  Not exactly class defining but what the hell, its a game.Use this with my zerker buddy (mentoring him) to mow down like 10 blossoms in TT the other nite, too funny.He runs off, training 10 mobs, we work mobs down to 2/3 HP for single con blues then ....Defile them.I just wish instead of 3 ticks it would just show the total on each tick.  so instead of 3 x 67 etc it would show 201 for the tick.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Lol, the log spam is the best part - it makes you feel like you're doing massive damage. I'm not sure any other class can generate as many combat log messages with a single spell.</p><p> </p>

[sostrows]

I had to turn off logging in PPR using this.  With all the freaking million pets now every class seems to have, my system just gets too laggy to parse.<div></div>