Why i don't hate the new pet

[Vincenzo]

Hello everyone. New Defiler in town. I'm a total EQ2 newbie. Been playing EQ1 for about six and a half years now, and three and a half years of that was as a raiding EQ1 Shaman.I'm level 30 at the moment, and got the first Achievement point at around level 26.There are some major similarities between the style and concept of the Shaman pets in the two games. From the way I have used it and can imagine it being used:1. It protects the Defiler when in trouble. It's what the EQ shamans called the Speedbump.2. It provides a little extra dps, invaluable for us when soloing (I've parsed her at 2-4 dps at my level).3. It will act as a vehicle for some of our more advanced abilities (see the Achievement tree).4. It can be used as a puller. Though I have to admit I haven't seen any "tricky pulls" like we get in EQ yet. They might exist I might just not have seen them at level 30 yet. I've noticed that outside of encounters mobs tend to be not so social.Just like in EQ it:Dies really fast. This is no tank and she needs a lot of love and care. She has very low health and aoes make her cry.Is low DPS if you don't count the extra abilities that she is a vehicle for.Is controllable. The fact that EQ2 didn't show me the pet window when i got her made me think it was an uncontrollable pet. Now I realise I can control her I'm ecstatic.Takes a long time to cast a new pet.Unlike EQ:In EQ the pets are rather buggy (on raids) and tend not to listen to orders so well unless you have some of the more advanced pet commands (which need to be bought with high level AA experience points). I like the way that at level 30 when i tell her to back off, she backs off. She doesn't look at me with puppy eyes and say, "no I know better than to back off. You had better spam that button a few more times."In EQ I can only have 8 (9 with an AA) spells memorized at any one time. The pet summon is one of those. It's a long casting time, and a long startup time. (From the momemnt you memorize the spell, it takes around 15 seconds for the spell to be ready). You can imagine that very few shamans would keep a pet summon spell memorized at all times, with so many other useful spells. This means that when she dies (a lot due to her low HP's) we have a major major hassle to get a new one up (and buffed, but that's another story). In EQ2 if she dies, I can just summon another one moments later. And I only need to cast one buff on her which is only when I am solo.I can name my pet! No more Kebabs and Jebekn pets again! Mine is called Dani. She's my companion!--As for the roleplay/look of the pet, I think it works even for Defilers though perhaps it depends on your style. I don't see myself as some kind of Necro mark 2 evil genius cookie cutter. I see myself as someone who primarily is good. I want to help people. Heal them. Revive them. Just I tap into the darker forces to achieve that, and have made some sacrifices to achive that.For me the spirit pet is a great roleplay companion. And what is better than a ghost dog? The reliable faithful guardian from the spirit plane.--I've seen the many whines about "omg we are not a pet class this isn't why i chose Defiler". One thing I would like to say here is that, just like in EQ, Shamans are NOT pet classes, and this is clear by looking at the achievement abilities. Just like in EQ we have a pet that is a vehicle for some very useful abilities and tricks which complement the main roles of our character. In EQ that is primarily a buff called Spirit of Panther that was added two expansions ago and is a dream buff (but only lasts 90 seconds). Looking at the achievement tree I see some thoroughly good ideas like a pet proc (like panther), a pet sacrifice ability (very defiler like IMO from a roleplay perspective) and even the pet AOE protection, the one that Jebekn in EQ has been calling for for years.Of course it might be that these abilities are very weak. I don't know, I am not at the high level of play as some of you yet. But let Sony know which these are (with parses preferably; it's nice to have statistics) and give them time to fix them.--I'm sorry this was a long post, but I hope it was worth it, and I am looking forward to hear all your comments.Nadir Stargazer, Splitpaw Server

[NimSul]

<div></div><p>Firstly and foremost. I never played eq1 and the game im playing is not eq1, the game i bought says eq2 on the box. I dont care what this and that was in eq1 because thats not the game im playing.</p><p>1. it cannot protect the defiler because if you heal it it looses aggro and defilers are so hard to kill as it is that we dont need it either.</p><p>2. it does provide a lil extra dps when soloing but very very little ( at lvl 30 my ranger could do maybe 200-300 ish dps, my warlock was starting to break 100 dps at around lvl 25)</p><p>3. it does, the problem is these abilitys depend on the pet to do something. It cant hit the mob reliably and fast enough to rely on procs, it cant take a hit so a reactive proc buff is useless. Im yet undesided as to how the passive group buffs is gonna work, depends on their range and if i can park the pet outside ae range but still benifit from the buffs</p><p>4. yes, this is a very usefull tool indeed.</p><p>And yes i really really hate that i have to use a pet now to play my class to its fullest. If defilers was a pet class from the start i wouldnt have played one, i gave up my conjuror at lvl 25 because i hated the whole pet thing. No matter how you look at this if a class needs to master a pet to reach its full capability its a pet class, and i think it sux big time.</p><p>Hehe soe dont listen to defilers ever so we cant let them know what we think no matter how much we want, sad but true up untill now. Defilers in eq2 is a kinda class where you got what you get and you learn to work around the bugs there is because you know they wont fix them.</p><p>Lastly, welcome to the rank of the defilers :smileyhappy:</p>

[Vincenzo]

Thanks for the welcome.Yes I appreciate that you didn't and many didn't play EQ. That's absolutely fine. I appreciate that not everyone likes pets. I suppose it must have come as a shock. Coming from EQ the ghost wolf pet was an expectation I suppose. I suppose my main point is at least they have improved the utility of the pet compared to the EQ one -- in theory -- which brings me to:I share your concerns about this weedy pet having to do stuff to trigger abilities in a raid / endgame situation. I really hope they tune this well, because if everyone has to buy the 8 point ability which protects the pets from AAs just to summon it on a raid, then I think that's going to be a very boring and sad state of affairs. In fact, given the pet's measly dps, inability to taunt, and use as a vehicle for other abilities, it might make sense for them to give us that AOE immunity (to the pet only) for free. I can't easily forsee any exploits with that, given that the pet has very low taunt.As for it protecting, I didn't mean as a tank, what I meant is in a group scenario on multipulls many of the tank players are not fast enough to get agro off me immediately (i've seen a few paladins/guardians/berserkers do it but not many) and the pet just ties up mobs for a short while. i.e. I have already started debuffing some of the mobs. The pet happily will steal agro off me for around 5-10 seconds during that initial period of the fight. Usually long enough for the tank (or wizard)to steal agro off the pet, or until the pet dies, whichever comes first.This is what i meant by protection.As a solo class defiler seems horribly weak compared to the other class I playtested (due to the lack of dps), Ranger, but this was expected and most probably intended. On the plus side the kind of groups I've been able to run with the defiler i think would make the average soloing ranger pretty envious (on the xp side).As a healer/debuffer it feels outstandingly fun, I have no idea what the druid and cleric types feel like to play. Today we did a Nektulos castle group with 5 players. Guardian level 30 tank, Defiler 30, Wiz 33, Troubadour 34, Assassin 30. Great fun. Many of the fights were close but we kept going through most of the entrance floor before the group had to break up. In a couple of those fights that i can think of (5 linked ghost encounters) my faithful pet did serve as an awesome distraction, giving me time to get spells off without interrupts.I suppose I really should take a look at those achievement trees and plan out what I'm going to buy. I'm slightly disappointed they've gone for a WOW style "talent" system instead of EQ's AA style system. Are we going to have the opportunity to respec once we realise that our dream spec is actually totally broken?thanks again for the welcome,Nadir

[NimSul]

<div></div>You can respec your AAs at any time by seing some npc, im not sure at what cost but heard rumors of a currency cost to do it.

[zonedbob]

<div></div><p>Check this thread for respec details, including prices:<a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=gameplay&message.id=36718&query.id=147475#M36718">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=gameplay&message.id=36718&query.id=147475#M36718</a></p><p>My great pet fear is that I will invest heavy AP into the lines that improve it - and then find that it's impact is still .... subtle. I like having a pet. I like that its a ghost doggy. And I like I can call it Taylen. I don't like that it seems to be an irritating distraction in group fights because it can't hold aggro or take hits. And the DPS is there, but really, why did they bother putting it on?  </p>

[Pari]

<div>So far I only used my pet as a companion. It's nice to have the little doggie following me everywhere. But for that, there are pets you can get through quests/collection I heard.</div><div> </div><div>If defiler AA's are around a pet, make it one that has some value to the caster besides making him feel less lonely in the deep forrest..</div>

[Vincenzo]

Excellent, thank you for that information about respeccing.Yes my fear is that the pet abilities might be weak, at least to start with until Sony get around to fixing them.I wouldn't rule them out though yet. We just need to wait until someone gets some of these and can post some information(parses/logs would rock) about how they work and so on.Nadir, Splitpaw 31 Defiler

[Argyuile]

<div></div><p>To start off let me say that as an EQ 1 shaman I was exstatic about getting my pet back, however I'm not nearly as happy with the implimentation</p><p>1) This pet dosn't protect worth shiat I estimate mine has 1k hp's unbuffed witch is 2 hits tops from most mobs I face.  In EQ1 my pet wasnt a speedbump because buffs where unlimited I could buff the snot out of my pet and the slow the mob by 75%.  I tanked with my pet all the time.  This pet is inferior in every way to the EQ1 pet.</p><p>2) Yes thank GOD for the extra DPS lord knows we needed it.</p><p>3) I hate the fact that so many of our abilites our tied to our new easy to die pet.   All of the sudden it gains agro or a big AE goes off and we lose haste and extra wards and whatever the heck other abilites we had tied to it.   I would rather see more innate (pet not needed) abilites.   I addition I would like to see the give your pet more HP's AA.</p><p>4) I've pet pulled with it NP, works great for this as long as you back it off as soon as the mob notices it.</p><p> </p><p>Don't get me wrong I really like having the pet, I just wish 75% of our AA's where not tied to it.</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Vincenzo]

i've now levelled a bit, I'm level 35.My pet is now able to save me for no more than 1 second on the mobs I face in groups in this Tier. I'm starting to be swayed against his utility as a speed bump.The big problem for me now though is the huge number of ripostes and AoE's the poor beggar is facing.Given that we need it hitting/alive/being hit for many of the AS abilities to work... it's going to be interesting how the AS tree pans out in the future...I don't have enough AS points to get the nice abilites yet though so relying heavily on reading other shaman reports.--Nadir, Defiler of Splitpaw

[Argyuile]

<div>Because the AE's are anihlating my pet I feel like I MUST go up the str line to both protect him from AE and to get an extra ward proc.  The more AA's you sink into your pet (which is most of our choices) the more you lose when some mediocre AE comes around and blows your triple down arrow pet into dust.</div>

[Bhagpuss]

54th level Defiler and I love my pet. I really couldn't care less that he dies a lot - takes no time to resummon him.With Rabies on he gives me another AE, which is just what I need when duoing with my conjuror partner.

[Zathrys]

<span><blockquote><hr>Bhagpuss wrote:54th level Defiler and I love my pet. I really couldn't care less that he dies a lot - takes no time to resummon him.With Rabies on he gives me another AE, which is just what I need when duoing with my conjuror partner.Take that pet into vault when you are high enough (lvl 65+ instance).  After having to resummon your dog for the 3rd time it's gets old, especially when it's 3 time in 3 pulls.  EVery pull in that zone has an ae and will kill the mutt.  Also factor in that it can't hit heroic mobs for shiat and don't even consider hitting a raid mob with it and a lot of that dog utility flys right out the window.  You are forced to burn 25aa on the str line if you want your dog to survive.  So you really only get to choose 1 other aa line if you want to use the pet effectively.I am very disappointed to the way the shaman pet was implemented and am baffled as to why it cannot be buffed (our group and single target buffs other than dread invective line do not affect the pet.  I haven't tried tendrils since it is a reactive buff and the pet dies in 1 hit)<hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[Daisy Lou]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Zathrys wrote:         EVery pull in that zone has an ae and will kill the mutt. <span></span><div></div><hr></blockquote>I like to think of the dog as purebred, seeing as how most of them are just for show.</span></div>

[ffour16]

<div>While my main is a Guard, I also have a 52 Defiler that I love to toy around with... figure playing a healer class might make me a better tank, and Defilers seemed to be the class that gave me the most trouble as a tank.</div><div> </div><div>Since picking up the pet and applying a handful of AAs to him... I really couldn't be happier.  When raiding I spend most of the time outside of AoE range of the mob, so if I'm behind the MT and out of AoE range I can keep the tank buffed but not the melee dps.  If I'm behind the mob and out of its AoE range the tank is outside the range of my buffs, and depending upon where the melee dps scamper around to, they can also get out of range of my group buffs and wards.</div><div> </div><div>Now I have this mobile buff-bot.  He's immune to AoE, so as long as he's not in front of the raid mob getting riposted or the mob doesn't have a damage shield, I get to blanket everyone near the raid mob with some extra buffs and wards without putting myself at risk of being drilled by AoE.  I save TONS of power not warding and patch healing my group, giving me more to debuff the dogdoo out of whatever oversized lizard we're taking down.  This strat works great in groups too, if you have a tank that turns mobs away from the group and can send the pet in to attack from behind.  In either situation he never gets agro, but that might just be the tanks I've played with.  If anyone gets agro between me and the pet, it's me first 100% of the time and it isn't hard for me to hand it back over to the tank.</div><div> </div><div>So I'm pretty happy with the pet.  I don't want it to do any serious dps, just enough to proc whatever he has cast on him.  I don't want to be a pet class... i.e. someone with a different pet for every situation.  I enjoy my pet being an extension of my own abilities that I can send into situations where I probably should be running blindly into.</div>

[Jas]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>ffour1641 wrote:<div>While my main is a Guard, I also have a 52 Defiler that I love to toy around with... figure playing a healer class might make me a better tank, and Defilers seemed to be the class that gave me the most trouble as a tank.</div><div> </div><div>Since picking up the pet and applying a handful of AAs to him... I really couldn't be happier.  When raiding I spend most of the time outside of AoE range of the mob, so if I'm behind the MT and out of AoE range I can keep the tank buffed but not the melee dps.  If I'm behind the mob and out of its AoE range the tank is outside the range of my buffs, and depending upon where the melee dps scamper around to, they can also get out of range of my group buffs and wards.</div><div> </div><div>Now I have this mobile buff-bot.  He's immune to AoE, so as long as he's not in front of the raid mob getting riposted or the mob doesn't have a damage shield, I get to blanket everyone near the raid mob with some extra buffs and wards without putting myself at risk of being drilled by AoE.  I save TONS of power not warding and patch healing my group, giving me more to debuff the dogdoo out of whatever oversized lizard we're taking down.  This strat works great in groups too, if you have a tank that turns mobs away from the group and can send the pet in to attack from behind.  In either situation he never gets agro, but that might just be the tanks I've played with.  If anyone gets agro between me and the pet, it's me first 100% of the time and it isn't hard for me to hand it back over to the tank.</div><div> </div><div>So I'm pretty happy with the pet.  I don't want it to do any serious dps, just enough to proc whatever he has cast on him.  I don't want to be a pet class... i.e. someone with a different pet for every situation.  I enjoy my pet being an extension of my own abilities that I can send into situations where I probably should be running blindly into.</div><hr></blockquote>After reading your post I am about 80% sure that you are making all of this up and posting based on theory, not experience.  Half of your post explains why the dog is GREAT while out of AOE range, and then the other half you explain why he is so awesome because he is immune to AOEs.  I know of no 52 Defilers that have 25 AA, hell I know of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] few 70s that have 25AA for that matter.  The only ward we get from AAs is the one the pet procs, and while it is nice, it certainly isn't enough to "save TONS of power not warding and patch healing my group".  Let alone the fact that if the mob is hitting more than one person in the group, it is most likely AOE'ing, so the ward helps, but then the dog dies, so....  We also have a total of one (1) spell to turn aggro back over to the tank.  While it is one of our most awesome spells, it is on a 5 minute timer and really what I consider an emergency spell not a spell to use to drop aggro on a whim.If you are talking about the ward line, then you are most likely using the Haste buff as well (our Str AA line), and if you have done even the most rudimentary experimentation or research you will see that the range of the spell is far, far less than the range of our normal buffs - the pet really needs to be quite close to the melee to give them haste and holding the pet out of AOE range while melee go in simply will not work.All in all, I think the pet is great too - I just think that far too many of our AAs rely on the pet, and it is too vulnerable to AOE damage.  Maybe in a month or two some data mining will reveal that 95% of shaman have taken the Str line, and someone will get the bright idea that our pet should just be AOE immune to begin with so we actually have some freedom in our AA choices.  As it is now I'd kill to take the Stamina and Wis lines, but wasting all those AAs that involve the pet just seems counterproductive, so I feel forced to take Str and one of the other, and that's the part that bugs me.</span></div>

[Sokolov]

<div><span>I was in the top floor of the Palace last night.  Pet parsed a high of 2 DPS in the fights it was actually alive.  Many fights it died before landing a hit or never landed one at all.  He totally sucks =DOh, and I have the Wisdom AA line pet proc, which never procced, prolly because the pet never hit.</span></div>

[Jas]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Sokolov wrote:<div><span>I was in the top floor of the Palace last night.  Pet parsed a high of 2 DPS in the fights it was actually alive.  Many fights it died before landing a hit or never landed one at all.  He totally sucks =DOh, and I have the Wisdom AA line pet proc, which never procced, prolly because the pet never hit.</span></div><hr></blockquote>There's an awfully good reason for that - according to your sig you are 64 and even if thats old and say adding 2 levels, the stuff there is way over the level of your pet.  On blues and greens especially the pet is actually quite nice.  I finally got a decent spear the other night in Vault and was using Leg Bite today in Nest- pretty decent damage for a totally, 100% free spell that can be activated while casting wards even.  In a group where you get lots of melee buffs, and are fighting blues, the pet can hit for around 200 and Leg Bite is another 500 or so damage on top of that.  He can pretty much keep up with my Putrefy Master I in DPS in optimal situations - so essentially a free dot.  When you add in the 8% group haste and the procing ward, that's really not too bad.  The Wis line isn't terribly great for pet pwnage - all you get is the proc, which again doesn't proc too terribly much at all with the pet's hit rate.  This will be helped somewhat with the increase in attack speed in LU21, but even a 20% increase in attack speed - which is a big boost - means Dogdog procs maybe 2% more over time.As soon as you start fighting even or over level mobs, the pet drops drastically in his offense.  Crazy good buffs in the party can help somewhat, but it's just a fact of life right now.</span></div>

[Sokolov]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Jasek wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Sokolov wrote:<div><span>I was in the top floor of the Palace last night.  Pet parsed a high of 2 DPS in the fights it was actually alive.  Many fights it died before landing a hit or never landed one at all.  He totally sucks =DOh, and I have the Wisdom AA line pet proc, which never procced, prolly because the pet never hit.</span></div><hr></blockquote>There's an awfully good reason for that - according to your sig you are 64 and even if thats old and say adding 2 levels, the stuff there is way over the level of your pet.  On blues and greens especially the pet is actually quite nice.  I finally got a decent spear the other night in Vault and was using Leg Bite today in Nest- pretty decent damage for a totally, 100% free spell that can be activated while casting wards even.  In a group where you get lots of melee buffs, and are fighting blues, the pet can hit for around 200 and Leg Bite is another 500 or so damage on top of that.  He can pretty much keep up with my Putrefy Master I in DPS in optimal situations - so essentially a free dot.  When you add in the 8% group haste and the procing ward, that's really not too bad.  The Wis line isn't terribly great for pet pwnage - all you get is the proc, which again doesn't proc too terribly much at all with the pet's hit rate.  This will be helped somewhat with the increase in attack speed in LU21, but even a 20% increase in attack speed - which is a big boost - means Dogdog procs maybe 2% more over time.As soon as you start fighting even or over level mobs, the pet drops drastically in his offense.  Crazy good buffs in the party can help somewhat, but it's just a fact of life right now.</span></div><hr></blockquote>Boring content = sux0rsI was in Halls of Fate at level 62...</span></div>

[Jas]

Ah, but were you crying that your level 62 pet couldn't hit level 71 mobs?<div></div>