Defiler = Subpar as of Kos?

[cellpho]

<div>Is it just me or does everything about being a 61-70 defiler seem worthless?</div><div> </div><div>1. No group ward upgrade</div><div>2. No debuff upgrade</div><div>3. Maelstrom at 70 *why god why...*</div><div>4. Defile at 65 */suicide*</div><div> </div><div>In fact being a 70 defiler feels like being a level 50 defiler from the looks of things. In fact we get NOTHING usefull in KoS. Unless they completely upgrade/rework Defile, or make Maelstrom a single hit aoe that's equivalent of 2-3 ticks I don't see any reason to stay a defiler. Having my character since day 1 release and seeing this coming my way is complete garbage. SoE, imo, has made this class the new Shadowknight, cool to see but not a necessity.</div><div> </div><div>If people think this is an over-reaction then I'd suggest you go see what other classes are getting at both 65 and 70. If it wasn't for the prospect of betrayal to becoming *gag* as mystic, I'd probably quit this game.</div><div> </div><div>Gunzwei, 60 Defiler Antonia Bayle</div>

[Aaliel Stonefists]

<div></div>The fact that we don't get a group ward upgrade at 70 is obviously an oversight and will be corrected, they upgraded a level 58 spell that should not have an upgrade until level 72.  As for Maelstrom, it really isn't that bad of a spell, especially when fighting a group of low blue/green monsters that it really isn't even necessary to ward for and boosts everyone's power while damaging them.  Defile.... yeah that really sucks, I hope it is changed or I'm not even going to bother getting an apprentice 2 of that spell, if I get an adept 1 I'll just be selling it to a vendor rather than scribing it.

[Broomhilda]

<div></div><div></div><p>Many Defilers constantly bragged about how "uber" Defiler was, how we "owned" other classes of healers and how "Godlike" we were.  This is what happens when you talk that kinda [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  You get the nerf.  We have them to thank for the utter worthlessness of Defile.  I have said this before and I will say it again....When you have a good thing, keep quiet about it!  Too many were so wrapped up in feeding the ego rather than protecting the class.</p><p>I have no idea what our role will be come KOS, but in comparison to other preists, we have definitely taken a step down with this lvl 65 spell.  I dont beleive we will ever be as bad off as the first 9 months of the game, but we definitely will not be enjoying the elevated status that we did during DOF.   I will wait and see as I level my Inquisitor.</p><p>Peace out.</p><p>Message Edited by Broomhilda on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:14 PM</span></p>

[DresdenMalicaster]

I'm not willing to write defilers off just yet. I have to think that the current Defile is just a place holder for the real spell. Simply put, its impossible for any developer to justify that spell as "the class definer" from 60-70 for our class. That spell should be some silly , short-term debuff as has been suggested. There are so many unique ideas that could be used for that spell.... if you are a DEFILER and get a spell called DEFILE.... it had better be sweet.Simply put. I was a warden at release of DoF. I see the same level of resistance from the Defilers regarding Defile that I saw amongst the wardens with our regens (because they were so evidently meaningless as Defile is). Keep presenting comprehensive reasons why Defile is not a worthwhile spell and constructive ideas for alternatives and things will get addressed. Pure SoE bashing will see 0 response, but constructive criticism and suggestion from a vocal community can see results.<div></div>

[NimSul]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Broomhilda wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>...  You get the nerf.  ...</p><p>... we have definitely taken a step down with this lvl 65 spell...</p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>Accually i havnt seen anything thats been nerfed, We have just been overtaken on the inside by the others because our spells upgerade poorly or not at all and because of the gimpy lvl 65 spell.</p><p>Since there is a cap to dps reducers and attackspeed reducers and resistance debuffs most of our debuff upgerades are useless because that cap is easy to reach already now. And not to mention the abhorrence line /shrug.</p><p>Our wards/heals/buffs are still like they used to be, and the group ward thing is surely a mistake on soe's side, wardens/furys/mystics miss this too.</p><p>So its not directly a nerf of defilers, its an indirect nerf because it was a boost to others.</p>

[Feanor Baugl]

<div><span>Broomhilda do u think that we are "uber" and that we "owned" and was "godlike" cause it surly sounds like it when u say "when you have good thing, keep quiet about it!" how does that help to balance the game? and frankly just because some or many say "ohh look at me I'm so good" wont make them nerf us, I just cant believe that. On the other hand, what it will do is to make the aware that things might be unbalanced and when checking and they deam it to be unbalanced they make changes, as it should be. For me balancing is not about  balance other classes towards the class I play it's a thing that should be done to all classes if necessary. I've felt the heal classes was rather balanced and feel this brakes that balance. But I only base that from ingame experience and not on raw numbers, so I might be wrong. Either way all I want is for them to look it over and cosider some of the nice alterantives that has been presented here on the forum this past week. And should they feel a need to change it then I would be more then happy since I dont feel that this spell is defining for Defilers. Should they feel it is good as it is and don't chenge it then I'll just take it from there and hope they are correct, or I'll have less fun playin since there will be other healers that's gonne be preferd before me.</span></div>

[Ishnar]

<div></div>It might not hurt to take the same stance as the brigands and tell everyone that asks about how good defilers are to go roll a templar instead.  Just tell everyone we suck, even if we really don't.

[lordblackhea]

<div>I So Love SoE makeing us go from Hero to Zero in one good hit thanks alot for nothing ..... Unholy lvl 60 Defiler of Everfrost</div>

[Goozman]

<div></div><p>defilers arent getting nerfed... there's no nerfage. how are they going from hero to zero? because of a level 65 spell you never had before? Giving you a spell is the opposite of nerfing... sure, I think only 1 new spell is kinda bogus, but you still have all your leet 61-70 spells. Your class hasn't changed at all, nor have most other classes.</p><p>And btw you still have spiritual circle, it will scale til 71. And spiritual circle + maelstrom = uber</p>

[Horsemast]

<div></div><div></div>I agree with your Goozman. I dont know where you make your conclusions guys, but I'd suggest you play before you state that Defilers have been "nerfed". I didnt saw anything that indicates towards a "nerfage" in Kingdom of Sky.<p>Message Edited by Horsemaster on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:38 AM</span></p>

[lordblackhea]

<div>do your home work guys we have cus maybe its our class and we take the time to . before you think its not true let me trow it down for yha like this .... for one lvl 61 to 70 spells are like this our main debuff dont change at all in what it does not one little bit other then it cost more power to use . Here another Defiler lvl 65 sucks to no end if yha think this is wrong try lookin up what all the other healer class's git and you end up seeing a defiler git kicked in the [Removed for Content] very hard . Need more sure i can help yha there Group Ward guess what we dont git any new one in the new add on unlike we did from our frist 60 lvls and to boot good ol Dogdog a Gimpy little 3 arrow down punk that a dumnfire pet could eat hows that for ... Oh yha bend over and grab them knees ...... Unholy lvl 60 Defiler of everfrost</div>

[zonedbob]

<div></div><p>I think there might have been some good points in there, lordblackheart. If you'd stick some punctuation in I could work out what they were :smileyhappy:</p><p>I think the main problem is Defile, as everyone is saying. It isn't a terrible idea of itself, but it's weak and doesn't sit easily with how most of us want to play our class.</p><p>As a class, we've been fun to play and popular for groups throughout the "DoF era". I only started playing Defiler a few weeks before DoF came out and I've never felt that we are any kind of uber class. We support groups well, and we can group usefully with another healer. And as for soloing, there are a lot of classes that are worse - but a lot that are better too. And I don't know about other servers, but I've seldom seen people refused entry to groups because they are the wrong class. The wrong archetype, yes, but not for being the wrong class within the archetype. Boasts of uber-ness are a little empty I think, especially in this forum, where we know we're good! And the numbers of active Defilers you can see on eq2census.com show that any advantage we have hasn't resulted in a flood of people wanting to come play Defile.</p><p>If the Devs wanted to nerf us, then the answer is that we don't get an upgraded group ward. That's nerf enough. We're gonna be running around in the high 70's with a level 56 group ward. That's my most useful spell and nothing's happening to it, from what I've seen. I say balance that and give us a decent level 65 marquee spell. Espcially if you're gonna call it "Defile". And especially if Mystics are getting their super buff at that level.</p>

[Kanili]

<div>I'm so disgusted with the spells we are getting 60-70 I don't see the point of going thru aother 10 boring lvls.I used to love playing my defiler but ever since combat changes and heal spells linked my defiler is so boring to play. I was hoping that we would get some new exciting spells to breath  some life in a class that frankly isn't going to cut the grade in MT group, Mystic will be the class to  get that slot in raids. They need to rethink the lvl 65 spell compared to mystic cause we really are getting the short end of the stick. The spells just sux. I sure hope the Dev. team notice the posts here and on the other board.Many defilers will be either leaving or playing other characters.</div>

[Kyin]

<div></div>I dont get why you think your not still as leet as you were.  Yeah you do not get a cool buff or ward but you do get a AoE spell.  You were already the best AoE healer for AoE groups.  Your ward pet still still amazing as well as your cure stun while stuned spell.  Both of those I would love to have but do not.  Your still a viable MT healer for your HP buffs and your reactive debuff spell.  Getting 1 spell that is not as leet as you were hoping does not ruin your class.  If you want to complain it is still 1000 times better than the mystic level 55 spell. 

[NimSul]

<div><blockquote><hr>Kyin wrote:<div></div>I dont get why you think your not still as leet as you were.  Yeah you do not get a cool buff or ward but you do get a AoE spell.  You were already the best AoE healer for AoE groups.  Your ward pet still still amazing as well as your cure stun while stuned spell.  Both of those I would love to have but do not.  Your still a viable MT healer for your HP buffs and your reactive debuff spell.  Getting 1 spell that is not as leet as you were hoping does not ruin your class.  If you want to complain it is still 1000 times better than the mystic level 55 spell. <hr></blockquote>You really havnt got a clue about how defilers work and whats spells we get. Lets me post this quote for you:</div><div> </div><div>Bobs147 :</div><div><font face="Helv"> "</font>I play a Mystic and Deflier and can say with confidence the classes are well balanced between each other. Mystics have 2 strong ae debuffs, defliers have no 'strong' ae debuff, Defliers have more single target debuffs. Mystics have the awesome torpor and ancient balm. Defilers have the awesome cannibalise and spritual circule.<p>The proposed new L65 spells completely un balances the two classes. Bolster is without doubt a better buff than any other deflier or mystic buff by a long long way. This single spell makes Mystics more preferable to defliers 100% of the time in the MTgroup, MA group or any other single group set up (including xp groups etc)."</p><p>We are in NO way at all the best Aoe healer, i dont even know what you mean by that? wards are the weakest form of group healing and we barely have any ae dps at all, especially in groups where ae dots sux because ae encounters die really fast.</p><p>Really there isnt much of a difference if you have the same group but swap a defiler for a mystic when it comes to hp, i would choose a good playing mystic over a bad defiler any day of the week as the buffer. We are talking maybe 200 hp if spells are equal quality. When we have templar+defiler in a group and inquisitor+mystic in another the hp difference is 500ish and templar vs inquisitor is about the same as mystic vs defiler, This counting that the templar/inquisitor/mystic have spme adept 3 buffs and i have all master buffs.</p></div>

[Kyin]

<div></div><p>Guess you never been in an AoE group then =).</p><p>First off lets see, who is wanted in a MT group more now? a Defiler or a Mystic?</p><p>Defiler 100% of the time, why? more HP, Ward pet, reactive debuff proc to name a few.  all of these are group only.</p><p>Mystic group only spells... Oberon,... yeah not going to get you in sorry.</p><p>So lets see Mystic has 0 group only mystic only spells. Defiler has 2. Your ward pet is amazing, your cure stun while stunned is great, your debuffs are stronger and you have a reactive debuff which is insane.  You class if fine. </p><p>So all things equal except for marquee spells then lets look at them.</p><p>Defiler</p><p>Mana regen (52) Group Cure Stun/Stifle while stuned or stifled (55) Group regen ward pet (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  PBAoE (65) (out of all of these this is the least useful but still nice)</p><p>Mystic</p><p>Torpor (52) (best spell we have) Slothful Sprits (55) (crap 100% useless spell only really useful in a duel and not so much then) Ancient Balm (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Single target cure anything CA great spell.  Bolster (65) wonderful spell and something to consider puting mystics in MT group for.</p><p> </p><p>So we get 2 great spells one at 52 and one a 65, only 1 of them needs us in MT group.  Defilers get 3 great spells 2 of which need them to be in MT group to use.  Then throw in their other MT group spells.</p><p>As for the AoE group.  You are the best HEALER for one, a Fury is good, though only for the dps as he finds it harder to keep everyone alive.  Your group ward + Group pet Ward makes you the perfect AoE healer.  Again if you do not understand what type of group that is or how they fight then I will not explain it here.  In the end both classes are evened out, I am sorry you do not feel you are as leet as you once were but last time I checked none of your old "leet" spells got nerfed.  So to me it seems like your the same healer you were. </p>

[cellpho]

<div></div><p>What a few people are understanding, and what a lot of people are not understanding about my post is the single fact that we are receiving NO UPGRADES in kos. I mean 0, zilche, nada, nothing.</p><p>New Debuffs = Same debuffs we've had for 60 levels, they are not stronger, they do not last longer, ect..</p><p>New Buffs = Same Buffs we've had for 60 levels</p><p>Wards = 1 single target, no new group ward *and no, this isn't an oversight*</p><p>Unique Spells = No upgrade to FC, Shamefull upgrade to Maelstrom</p><p>A defiler going from 61-70 is basically just repeating 41-50 as far as spells. Defile is a joke unless it is turned into some extremely powerful DeBuff/Buff. Even if Defile did a ton of dmg, it would be nothing more than an aggro death sentence. At 70 we get Maelstrom, our next most useless spell. Maelstrom line is like casting 3 level 20 aoe's at once and stuns us. Sure it regen's HP/Pow, but when your group's avg hp is 6000-10,000 and their power averaging around 4-6000, then it is useless. Seriously just ask a tank which he/she would prefer you use, Heals/Wards or Maelstrom. Because you are not going to be using both.</p><p>Our level 65/70 spells in comparison to other priests is like comparing a rock to a mountain. Mystics get Bolster/Oberan, Furies get Storm/Porcupine, ect..</p><p>Unless Spirit Circle/FC scale with level *which I highly doubt*, and Defile be completely revamped, the defiler will become outdated very quickly. Again what a lot of people are failing to realize is that Defilers become powerful at 51-60. All those great benefits of that level range are non-existent in 61-70.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p>

[radical_EDWARD]

<div></div><div></div>wah wah wah wah, all i hear is crying crying and crying, can you stop being babies and just play the freaking game? We basically the same awesome defiler class in DoF plus one SEmi useless spell, BIG FREAKING DEAL. Guess what no other priest gets upgrade to any of the single target heals or lvl 60 buffs either, NOT JUST DEFILERS. We do get upgrades to most of our main debuffs though. You still going to have the awesome spells like spiritual circle and tendrils of horror, defilers are still awesome in MT groups. I was an awesome defiler before DoF, i am godlike in DoF, and im going to be awesome in KoS. Just learn to play your class to the fullest of its ability and stop crying, you will find it more enjoyable.<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by radical_EDWARD on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:28 AM</span></p>

[MalkorGodchyld]

<div></div><div></div><p><font size="2">  Defile in it's current state isn't SEmi- useless.   It's useless.   Some of the upgrades we dont get are the same for other priests ~ fine & dandy.    The debuff upgrades aren't upgrades...look at em'.  Thats where it hurts..because our main job is debuffing & not causing dmg, it's hard to find a creative way to upgrade Debuffs without making them too powerful. UNDERSTOOD but we dont have to like it. </font></p><p><font size="2">   The whining has died down & it's been alot of <em>constructive criticism</em> so plz stop posting stuff like  (stop whining..blah blah blah )   It's normal to gripe for a bit.   A previous post made a really good point & thats that...our class starts to shine from 51-60 & that gets sorta negated during KOS when those spells won't have quite the same effect. <em>  </em></font></p><p><font size="2"><em> </em>The community is just trying to get a fair shake in that regard & if you say that it isn't valid then you dont know YOUR class.    Making the best of it all is what Defilers have done since launch, so thats not gonna change.</font></p><p><font size="2"></font> </p><p><font size="2">~ Retired 60 Defiler ~</font></p><p>Message Edited by MalkorGodchyld on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:39 AM</span></p>

[Tanit]

<span><blockquote><hr>cellphone wrote:<div></div><p>What a few people are understanding, and what a lot of people are not understanding about my post is the single fact that we are receiving NO UPGRADES in kos. I mean 0, zilche, nada, nothing.</p><p><font color="#ffff66">yes, like </font><font color="#ffff66">all</font><font color="#ffff66"> priests</font>New Debuffs = Same debuffs we've had for 60 levels, they are not stronger, they do not last longer, ect..</p><p><font color="#ffff66"><span>yes, like all priests</span></font></p><p>New Buffs = Same Buffs we've had for 60 levels</p><p><font color="#ffff66"><span>yes, like all priests</span></font></p><p>Wards = 1 single target, no new group ward *and no, this isn't an oversight*</p><p><font color="#ffff66">Obviously a bug. Unless you know more than i do.</font></p><p>Unique Spells = No upgrade to FC</p><p><span><font color="#ffff66">yes, like </font><font color="#ffff66">all</font><font color="#ffff99"><font color="#ffff66"> priests (hmm.. i see a pattern)</font></font></span></p><p>A defiler going from 61-70 is basically just repeating 41-50 as far as spells.</p><p><font color="#ffff66"><span>yes, like all priests (omg!!)</span></font></p><p>Defile is a joke unless it is turned into some extremely powerful DeBuff<font color="#ffffff">/</font><font color="#ffff99"><font color="#ffffff">Buff</font>. </font><span>Even if Defile did a ton of dmg, it would be nothing more than an aggro death sentence.Our level 65/70 spells in comparison to other priests is like comparing a rock to a mountain. Mystics get Bolster/Oberan, Furies get Storm/Porcupine, ect..</span></p><p><font color="#ffff66">Yep, it's crap. Hopefully soe notices that soon.</font></p><p><font color="#ffffcc">Unless Spirit Circle/FC scale with level *which I highly doubt*</font>, and Defile be completely revamped, the defiler will become outdated very quickly. Again what a lot of people are failing to realize is that Defilers become powerful at 51-60. All those great benefits of that level range are non-existent in 61-70.</p><font color="#ffff66">No class gets upgrades to their new DoF spells and they don't suddenly scale either.</font><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[Raff]

<div></div><div>lol <a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=2448"><span>Tanith_</span></a>  I agree with you. I also don't think the defile spell is working based off the data provided in another thread. Not working does not mean the spell concept is bad either.</div><div> </div><div>I'm excited for the expansion, from my friends who are beta testing, we are in for a treat...   <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Gravewolf]

<div></div>I also agree with you both (Tanith and Raffta)And just for reference, here is what Lockeye posted when these spells were added to beta:<hr size="2" width="100%"><blockquote><div>-In an beta update soon, the new level 65 unique spells should be available for purchase. <b>Not all of them have been balanced tuned yet and a few of them are awaiting further code support,</b> but all of them should be working in some capacity.</div><div> </div><div>-The level 50 marquee spells do not follow the normal level advancement, and its upgrade is granted at level 70.</div><div> </div><div>-Some spell lines will end altogether and not get their +14 level upgrade in the expansion. This only occurs if the spell's upgrade path involves a raw percentage that is always effective no matter what level you use this ability, and any upgrades would break the balance of the spell. There is no replacement spell, since you can use the raw percentage spell at any level and for less power than what you would get with a higher level spell upgrade.</div><div> </div><div><div>-Some spells do not follow the general +14 level advancement, and may vary by +/- 1 level. This was done for certain levels where no spell upgrades were being granted, often because of ending spell lines from spells that cannot possibly get better.</div></div><div> </div><div>-Desert of Flames Legendary spells are unique and do not follow normal level advancement, and will not have any upgrades in Kingdom of Sky.</div></blockquote><hr size="2" width="100%"><div>Note that Defile on beta is essentially a placeholder, and I would imagine that the code for its damage dynamically scaling based on target health (as per the human-written description) is currently being worked on (since this is new functionality).  Those numbers may not even be the base damage (for a creature at 100% health) on the final version, and were just what was plugged in so the spell would actually cast until it is finished.</div><div></div><p>Message Edited by Gravewolf on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:21 PM</span></p>

[Feanor Baugl]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Gravewolf wrote:<div></div>I also agree with you both (Tanith and Raffta)And just for reference, here is what Lockeye posted when these spells were added to beta:<hr size="2" width="100%"><blockquote><div>-In an beta update soon, the new level 65 unique spells should be available for purchase. <b>Not all of them have been balanced tuned yet and a few of them are awaiting further code support,</b> but all of them should be working in some capacity.</div><div> </div><div>-The level 50 marquee spells do not follow the normal level advancement, and its upgrade is granted at level 70.</div><div> </div><div>-Some spell lines will end altogether and not get their +14 level upgrade in the expansion. This only occurs if the spell's upgrade path involves a raw percentage that is always effective no matter what level you use this ability, and any upgrades would break the balance of the spell. There is no replacement spell, since you can use the raw percentage spell at any level and for less power than what you would get with a higher level spell upgrade.</div><div> </div><div><div>-Some spells do not follow the general +14 level advancement, and may vary by +/- 1 level. This was done for certain levels where no spell upgrades were being granted, often because of ending spell lines from spells that cannot possibly get better.</div></div><div> </div><div>-Desert of Flames Legendary spells are unique and do not follow normal level advancement, and will not have any upgrades in Kingdom of Sky.</div></blockquote><hr size="2" width="100%"><div>Note that Defile on beta is essentially a placeholder, and I would imagine that the code for its damage dynamically scaling based on target health (as per the human-written description) is currently being worked on (since this is new functionality).  Those numbers may not even be the base damage (for a creature at 100% health) on the final version, and were just what was plugged in so the spell would actually cast until it is finished.</div><div></div><p>Message Edited by Gravewolf on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:21 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Thanks for the input!For me its understandable and ok to complain and to give costructive critisism towards a beta thing since it might go live without any change. And if it would work on beta and no one would comment about it (I have no idea if that's the case regarding Defile, don't think so but for the argument sake) then I'd imagin it would go live without any changes done to it. And I also feel that when they lift the NDA and so close to release date the spell description should be finished. And especially for such a important spell due to its class defining aspect. And further more nothing should be hidden. U should get the numbers (how much more dmg it does closer to...)Everyone has a different opinion regarding what a class defining spell should be, so it's hard to take everyting into account. But now that the defiler community has become so upset about this one spell I was hoping to get just one little comment from the dev's regarding the spell. And not gettin that just puts more fuel on the asumption "it'll go live without any change" wich I for one actually think, so I'll hope I'll be proven wrong.I enjoy the argument this is causing since occasionally someone posts a good alternative (I havent done it, I have lousy imagination) but one thing I do ger frustrated about is the "well this is due to so many sayin ohh Defiler is so über and so on" We all have different opinion. I for one feelt all the healing classes got balanced after DoF and I don't think braggin causes nerf as I've said in a previous post but it will draw devs attention and they'll probably look into it and if need be they nerf as it should be.I don't think Defile in its current way is a classdefining spell nor do I think it's good cause I don't know everything it does, it might be great time will tell. i would prefer a debuff, Sostrows made a suggestion in this or another post recently wich I liked very much and felt it was more in the line of what my perception of defining for Defilers is. And I also think the spell with its current description is so much worse then The Mysitcs version, and that for me is wrong since we are supose to be to sides of a coing so to speak. But that's my opinion, that's my two last cents on this topic, I'll just wait until live to see if I get dissapoited or not, and as many other has said Betrayal aint an option since I would have done a Mystic from the get go if that class would have interested me</span></div>

[Goozman]

<div></div><p>If the group ward is not being upgraded, it is most likely a mistake... all group specialty heals should be being upgraded.</p><p>All priests are going to be bland 61-70, it's not where our major and most fun spells are upgraded.</p><p>And stop sayin everyone else's 65 spell is so great without researching and understanding them.</p><p> </p><p>THERE IS NO NERF! KNOCK IT OFF</p>

[MalkorGodchyld]

<div></div><div></div><p><font size="2">  Umm...the glaring point in most of these threads is that Defile is pretty useless as it is ATM.  Thats true!  Personally i could care less about what another priest class gets...it makes no difference to my class & thats that.      </font></p><p><font size="2">    Another thing is that Defilers are the best "debuff" priest so more of our upgrades don't all seem like upgrades because of the fact that debuffs are largely based on a raw %.   So we just may feel the bite a bit more.    It would be cool if a few of our other upgrades were considered more carefully but if not...so be it.     </font></p><p><font size="2">  I agree that it's not a nerf, although i couldn't say all things were considered in keeping the class <em>feeling</em> like it was advancing.  Thats just a sucky draw back with having your useful spells % based.   Oh well.                      </font></p><p><font size="2"></font> </p><p><font size="2">  ~ Retired 60 Defiler ~</font></p><p>Message Edited by MalkorGodchyld on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:52 PM</span></p>

[Docimodo]

<div></div><div></div><p>Haha well i think we need a couple of sticky threads like the templars do...</p><p>I'm gonna hold my breath till i get what i want!</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Also what is there to research? we've seen the screenshots of defiler versus mystic lvl 65 spells as they stand roughly one week before release thats all we need to see. comparing these two to any other subclasses spells is just stupid.</p><p>Message Edited by Docimodo on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:20 PM</span></p>

[Ishnar]

<div><blockquote><hr>Docimodo wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>Haha well i think we need a couple of sticky threads like the templars do...</p><p>I'm gonna hold my breath till i get what i want!</p><hr></blockquote>/em watches Docimodo's face turn red.</div><div>/em watches Docimodo's face turn purple.</div><div>/em watches Docimodo fall on his face.</div><div> </div><div>Docimodo passes out and starts breathing.</div>