Defile Spell - GET UP IN ARMS NOW

[Rhe]

   Our Marquee spell at 65 is a sickening joke.  Do not sit back and take it.  Seriously, ITS A JOKE.  Inquisitors for instance get a spell that brings a mobs hitpoints to 1% if they are at 50% health to 2% (epic) depending on the mobs challenge rating.  Us, we get a crapshot AE dot that will be ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY USELESS FOR EVERYTHING.Either greatly up its damage to being useless, like 150hp a tick and 30 sec recast, or put on a strong debuff effect, something.  As it is now its a joke.<div></div>

[NimSul]

<div>Its a joke and its an insult</div>

[Azeda]

<div></div>The fury 65 spell does 500-600+ I believe.  <strong>10X better </strong>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]

[SinisterEx]

<div></div>The spell states that it does greater damage as the mob is closer to death. So until we know how much more damage it does as the mob gets closer to death there is no reason to get all upset about the spell. The amount of damage it does as a mob is near say 25% health may be great. No need to get all worked up before we know everything about the spell.

[Geohi]

Just like our 50 spell.Joy-tastic. <span>:smileymad:</span><div></div>

[Rhe]

Then state so in the spell, it looks like crap now.  The Inquisitor spell details exactly what health level it will work, we get nothing.  From what they are showing us, its crap.<div></div>

[Gravewolf]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>SinisterEx wrote:<div></div>The spell states that it does greater damage as the mob is closer to death. So until we know how much more damage it does as the mob gets closer to death there is no reason to get all upset about the spell. The amount of damage it does as a mob is near say 25% health may be great. No need to get all worked up before we know everything about the spell.<hr></blockquote>Example: Someone who actually thinks before they hit Submit Post</span></div>

[Ixnay]

<div>I will test this tonight in beta and report back on whether, and to what extent, this does additional damage based on remaining mob life.</div><div> </div><div>I would very much agree, however, that if this spell is only intended to be used once a fight - as can be presumed from the 2 minute recast - it really should do more than the damage stated in the spell description, otherwise it's really only useful for factioning and farming quest updates on gray mobs.</div><div> </div><div>I love the fact this is out of group AE, however.  Caliginous only works on one encounter, this hits whatever is in radius.  If we can get the damage increased to something reasonable, I would use the heck out of this, both in raids and in groups.</div>

[NimSul]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Gravewolf wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>SinisterEx wrote:<div></div>The spell states that it does greater damage as the mob is closer to death. So until we know how much more damage it does as the mob gets closer to death there is no reason to get all upset about the spell. The amount of damage it does as a mob is near say 25% health may be great. No need to get all worked up before we know everything about the spell.<hr></blockquote>Example: Someone who actually thinks before they hit Submit Post</span></div><hr></blockquote><p>Thats not thinking thats just lack of understanding of how mobs are killed and lack of understanding of how other similar spells work, no offence ment.</p><p>A normal mob lives max 10 sec and if more its 90% of the time in yellow or green because noone is hitting it and the base damage will be the damage the spell is doing. A mob will very rarely be under yellow hp more than a few sec and a 2 sec dot will do 1 maybe 2 ticks at most and for it to be remotely compareble to ie the fury EQUAL spell it will have to do hmmm i dunno 5k - 7,5k - 10k on that tick? It might sound like a comfort but the fact is that a mob lives too short in orange/red for this kind of scaling to have any effect at all.</p>

[Gravewolf]

You also realize that fury spell says that it gives a CHANCE every second of firing for the damage on targets in the area.  So it isn't that much damage every second either.<div></div>

[Tanit]

<span><blockquote>Gravewolf wrote:You also realize that fury spell says that it gives a CHANCE every second of firing for the damage on targets in the area.  So it isn't that much damage every second either.<div></div><hr></blockquote>It only has to fire off once to do more damage than Defile.</span><div></div>

[MalkorGodchyld]

<div></div><div><font size="2">  This spell needs to be looked at and tested....then looked at some more!     </font></div><div><font size="2">Tiny dmg...2min+ recast...but it only lasts 16 seconds??</font></div><div><font size="2"></font> </div><div><font size="2">Maybe this spell is geared towards Raid bosses or fights that last a bit?      If so...ok but personally i'd like a spell that can be useful in a more routine PvE scenario.  </font></div><div><font size="2"></font> </div><div><font size="2"></font> </div><div><font size="2">~ Retired 60 Defiler ~</font></div><div><font size="2"></font> </div>

[Dayren]

<div>Ya hi im currently a 57 defiler on Najena and i was looking to see the new spells and aftet seen what some of the other healers got its just not far inquis got it real good i think all we ask is to be able to be on par with others i hope thats not to much to ask</div>

[maxa]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>This Defile marquee spell screenshot has made me suspect that SOE is going to bail the Defilers again. But Ive already decided what Im gonna do. Ill just wait for KoS, wait 2-3 months till they fix bugs and stabilize the gameplay balance, and if after that I feel that Defilers are screwed again like they were pre-DoF (and a noob marquee spell is a very good proof to that), I will completely quit the game and never ever come back even if they make Defilers the only class who can solo raid mobs.Basically, if you decided to give each class a single marquee spell, I think you need to follow the following rules1) the spell must be class-defining2) the spell effect must be very significant, so people say "wow cool!" when they see the spell working.3) the spell must be useful both in groups and raids.However, its really too early to make any conclusions. First of all, screenshots are from beta and descriptions / effects are of course incomplete or buggy. Maybe that spell is a 10K AE dot when mobs HP are yellow, I like its concept in general =) Second, I somehow think that KoS is gonna finally bring real fun into EQ2, cuz if it doesnt, this game will have nothing but empty servers when VG comes out. And finally, I do hope that KoS dev team learned well from DoF devastating mistakes and they do realize that doing more of similar mistakes could be fatal for the game.Shamaxaon60 Defiler of XanaduRunnyeye server<p>Message Edited by maxa0n on <span class="date_text">02-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:27 AM</span></p>

[Landaros]

Agreed.Lets wait for the final version, try it out and then complain or recommend changes.<div></div>

[lordblackhea]

<div>As all ways SOE as messed up our class even more then before with our new power spell being more like gimpy spell . they must hate defilers i think with the new Add on we git our good ol Dog pet back . but as what a 3 arrow down [Removed for Content] good for all of 3 sec of help and a kool AE spell that does Jack for Dmg and dont forgit we git no group ward choice for our Master 2 pick . oh and our debuff the drops a % of the mobs stats whats bites cus it never upgrades from the lvls we git whats the point of giveing us a line of spells that never upgrades but cost of more power as we giting higher in lvl . For me i'm a Hardcore Raiding Defiler on everfrost and this new add on kicks up Yet another 10 lvls what we are back to Exping like mad again for what useless spells give me a brake . I was playing WoW before and droped it to come to EQ2 what i was playing before WoW came out . if this dont git fixed i may as well just go back to WoW at lest there i'm not going to git screwed over every time they add some thing new to the game .............. Unholy lvl 60 Defiler of Everfrost</div>

[DevontheGnome]

really guys the Inquis spell is not as amazing as people seem to make it out. It looks as though it will only drop down to 1hp from 50% on down arrow mobs... those things die in like 2 seconds, so not an actual help. on regular mobs what is it 25%? well once you have a no arrow mob at 25% its pretty near death anyway, i just saved myself 6 seconds wahoo. The stronger mobs (the ones you take in groups) it effects at like 2% and 10%ish(forget exact number) well when you have a group (or raid) when mobs get down to that low health they die in like 4 seconds anyway. Honestly inquis spell not that sweet, just looks that way cause it says 1hp in the spell effects.60 Inquisitor - Everfrost51 Dirge - Everfrost<div></div>

[NimSul]

<div></div><p>Your normal no arrow mob has about 10k hp at high t6, dropping that from 25% is a 2,5k nuke</p><p>Your normal tripple up arrow has around 30k hp at high t6, dropping that from 10% is a 3k nuke</p><p>and these numbers will of cause increase when we hit high t7 so its a pretty nice nuke compared to anything the defiler arsenal has to offer.</p><p>Also the inquis spell is insta cast so no casting time and on a 45 sec timer compared to defile on 120 sec timer and 3 sec cast time, and defile is a pbaoe so there goes the raid usage.</p><p>Anyways complain about the inquisitor spell on inquisitor forums if you feel like it, if you feel its bad you should back up defilers cos ours is worse by far.</p>

[DevontheGnome]

i'm not complaining about the spell i just don't think its as great as your points of comparison make itmaybe its a 2.5k nuke on a down arrow mob but that in reality is only a few seconds of fighting time. (dunno that down arrow mobs even have that much health they certaintly die fast enough). If your guys does more damage as the mob gets weaker and its group. it could end up doing more damage then that over the course of a whole battle to group mobs<div></div>

[Rhe]

<div></div>How about a lifetap (if they don't want to give us a raid spell, fine make it a good solo spell), How about an AE debuff like increasing chance to miss, how about another ward, how about Avatar, oh wait Mystics basically get Avatar as their 65 spell.  Instead we get another weak [Removed for Content] group dot.With the changes made to priests, unless its some ungodly damage spell useable seldom, then don't give us damage.  Give us a buff or some kind of crazy debuff.  Priests generally aren't known for damgae now.  We are known for HEALING and BUFFING and DEBUFFING.  The only way a damage spell would help us would be if it did insanely crazy damage, see Inquisitor and Fury lvl 65 spells.Otherwise, just give me a good debuff if they won't give me a ward or heal and I'll be happy.  But damage, no need, unless its insane, again see Fury and Inquisitor.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Rhent on <span class="date_text">02-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:44 PM</span></p>

[Broomhilda]

<div></div><p>Jeez, can we at least wait and see what the new spell has to offer before taking up arms?  btw, where was all this passion for a fix several months ago when Defilers were broke as all hell?  I was mostly alone fighting for improvements to our [Removed for Content] [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] state back then.  </p><p>I will WAIT AND SEE what the spell has to do first.  Thank you. </p>

[Ixnay]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>Ok, I did test the spell on beta and am somewhat disappointed.  BUT LEMME ALSO SAY THAT THEY HAVE BEEN SUPER ABOUT FIXING STUFF FAST DURING THIS BETA WHEN COMPARED TO KOS.  I THINK WE OWE THEM A CHANCE TO FIX THINGS.  PLEASE DON'T GO OFF ON THE DEVS OR SOE ABOUT THIS SPELL.  Our best chance of getting what we want is to be reasonable and polite, trust me.</p><p>Here is what I found in actual testing using the Adept 1 version of this spell on my Defiler in beta, who had 100 int during these tests.  Int is the most important factor in spell damage.  If my int was higher, my damage would have been at least somewhat higher.</p><p>I approached a mob that had been gray to me for 3 levels.  To agro this mob, I stood next to it and cast this spell, so the mob was at 100% health when I cast the spell.  As promised, this spell damaged the mob 9 times total, once initially and then every two seconds for 16 seconds.  The average damage each time was 62.  So 62 x 9 = 558 damage to this one mob from one cast.  If I had 8 of these same mobs in range when i cast this spell, the maximum allowed, it would have done 558 x 8 = 4464 damage total.</p><p>Now, 4464 total damage may sound like a good amount, but imo it isn't really, given the HP of the mobs in KoS.</p><p>Ok, so I slugged away at this gray mob for over 2 minute with my Godking hammer, and eventually got it down to 5 percent health.  Then I recast Defile, wanting to see how much the damage increased from damage at full health to damage at the lowest possible health I could test it.  There was no increase in damage - it again damaged the mob for an average of 62 damage, 9 times total, before the mob died.</p><p>What I'm asking is this:  please allow me to report this as a bug and in feedback, and try to follow the channels and ask for an upgrade, and for the spell to be fixed to work as stated in the description, before anyone goes off.  The devs are super nice people and really, honestly and truly care about our enjoyment of this game, and  I often see them working till 1 A.M. in beta.</p><p>Thanks</p><p>Message Edited by Ixnay on <span class="date_text">02-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:07 PM</span></p>

[Thessik_Ironta]

<div></div>What if the spell was on a 30 second reuse timer? that might be a bit better.

[arieste]

<div></div>Actually, I would agree that waiting has no point.You get ONE (not two, not twenty), ONE new spell in KoS.  Defilers are healers.  Why would a healer's class defining ability be a situational ae? or any kind of ae, or any kind of nuke.  We are healers.  We are warders.  We are buffers. As far as the spell speficially, lets take the best case scenarion in that it does 10k (just for example sake) damage to all mobs in ae that are under (for sake of example again) 50% hp. When was the last time you were on a raid and more than 1 mob was under 50% hp?a.(Panthea, 60 Defiler, LDL)<div></div><p>Message Edited by arieste on <span class="date_text">02-11-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:55 AM</span></p>

[werl]

<div></div>Compared to what the mystics get, our "class defining " spell is a joke. They get a nice buff, we should get a nice debuff imohttp://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=19&message.id=1132532% increase to hp32% increase to ALL atribs56% to sizeshort recastcome on DEVS , this has to be a joke...<div></div><p>Message Edited by werlak on <span class="date_text">02-11-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:12 AM</span></p>

[t0iletduck]

That new mystic spell is awesome. So much for ever being in the MT group again, hehe. It must be revenge for spiritual circle.<div></div>

[SunT]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>werlak wrote:<div></div>Compared to what the mystics get, our "class defining " spell is a joke. They get a nice buff, we should get a nice debuff imohttp://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=19&message.id=1132532% increase to hp32% increase to ALL atribs56% to sizeshort recastcome on DEVS , this has to be a joke...<div></div><p>Message Edited by werlak on <span class="date_text">02-11-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:12 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><div>I agree.  The spell seems very lacklustre considering it is a class defining ability.  I have no idea what an aoe dot has to do with the Defiler.  I think an awesome buff for the mystic and an awesome debuff for the Defiler is a great idea.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[L]

<div></div><p>Ok, now that I've seen the new level 65 mystic marquee spell "Bolster", now I'm panicked.</p><p>AT AD3, IT GIVES A 32 PERCENT INCREASE TO THE MT'S HP AND INCREASES ALL HIS STATS 32% - FOR 36 SECONDS.  My guild can currently kill Terrorantula in about 30 seconds.  Many raid mobs live less than two minutes.  This spell can be recast every two minutes, so using the current levels as a basis, the tank can go from ~11k hp at the current levels to ~ 14.5k hp for over a quarter of all raid time.  Which would you rather have in the MT group?  A defiler, or a mystic?</p><p>If this goes live, there will never, ever again be a defiler in any MT group of any raid. </p><p>This is equal to a complete and total nerf of our class for any raiding defiler.</p><p>ALL I DO IS RAID - that's it.  If this spell goes live, I will have no choice but to quit my defiler and roll a mystic.</p><p>This is a huge, fundamental, game breaking change.  The person who put this spell in game cannot possibly have comprehended the extraordinary nerf to our class this would cause.</p><p>Yeah, I'm up in arms now.</p>

[NimSul]

<div>At least we can betray to become a mystic :smileysad:</div><div> </div><div>This spell dont need to be fixed it needs to be put in the trashcan where it belongs, we need to either get a buff similar to the mystic one or we need a ae debuff so we have some usefullness outside mt group, cos thats where we gonna be right now.</div><div> </div><div>And this dot is totally useless for grouping too as stated before.</div>

[Broomhilda]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Smileonacat wrote:<div></div><p>Ok, now that I've seen the new level 65 mystic marquee spell "Bolster", now I'm panicked....</p><p>. </p><p>This is equal to a complete and total nerf of our class for any raiding defiler....</p><p>This is a huge, fundamental, game breaking change.  The person who put this spell in game cannot possibly have comprehended the extraordinary nerf to our class this would cause....</p><p>Yeah, I'm up in arms now.</p><hr></blockquote><p>I am fairly confident that in another<strong> 9 months</strong> after KOS's release this issue shall be addressed as were wards and previous Defiler issues.  During which time players will cease playing Defilers, by either re-rolling or betraying and becoming Mystics, putting us on the "Extinction" list once again.  And don't forget the Defiler crowd that thinks getting all your spells to Adept 3 will make you "be a bit better" (to quote a certain illustrious Defiler) and feel your a "poor" defiler because you simply can't accept the gimpness of your class.  So in a nutshell, SOE's total disdain for it's Defiler "step-child" and the community's apathy, will ensure that nothing will be done about this until some knucklehead at SOE checks the sub-class rosters and sees only two Defilers left worldwide.</p><p>My Inquisitors level 27.  I know what I'll be playing full time in 6 months.  Good luck in the fight, I have been fighting since day one and I am done with it.</p><p>Message Edited by Broomhilda on <span class="date_text">02-11-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:55 PM</span></p>

[Ixnay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Broomhilda wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote>I am fairly confident that in another<strong> 9 months</strong> after KOS's release this issue shall be addressed as were wards and previous Defiler issues.  During which time players will cease playing Defilers, by either re-rolling or betraying and becoming Mystics, putting us on the "Extinction" list once again.  And don't forget the Defiler crowd that thinks getting all your spells to Adept 3 will make you "be a bit better" (to quote a certain illustrious Defiler) and feel your a "poor" defiler because you simply can't accept the gimpness of your class.  So in a nutshell, SOE's total disdain for it's Defiler "step-child" and the community's apathy, will ensure that nothing will be done about this until some knucklehead at SOE checks the sub-class rosters and sees only two Defilers left worldwide.</blockquote><p></p><p><span class="time_text"></span></p><hr></blockquote>Broomhilda, thanks for reminding me about the possiblity for upcoming betrayal and high level class changes.  If Bolster goes live, I'll betray and become a Mystic on the first day betrayal is possible, because I basically like playing the shaman role best out of all the toons I've tried, and I don't believe my defiler will get much further use at raids, except perhaps to be included sometimes out of pity.  I'll sure hate that all of my masters (over half of all my spells) and all my Adept 3s (all the rest of my spells) will get destroyed and reset to App 1 Mystic spells, but it will be less work and expense in total to replace all those than it will be to reroll and relevel a Mystic from scratch.

[t0iletduck]

I'm sure it will be changed before launch. All we can do is /feedback and hope.P.S. I still wont betray to be a Mystic. Living in Qeynos..... I'd just have to kick my own [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]<div></div>

[Ixnay]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>t0iletduck wrote:I'm sure it will be changed before launch. All we can do is /feedback and hope.P.S. I still wont betray to be a Mystic. Living in Qeynos..... I'd just have to kick my own [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Even if Bolster got dumbed down to 10% and 16 seconds, it would still be that huge for pulls.  And I'd still do the same without an equal HP/stat increase spell.  This isn't seperate but equal.  The ONLY thing as good for us would be a mitigation buff with a comparable increase.  A good new mob debuff won't get you into the MT group - that would make us sideline players compared to mystics.</p><p>Message Edited by Ixnay on <span class="date_text">02-11-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:30 AM</span></p>

[Azeda]

<div></div><p>WOW ... didn't know that mystics get such a good buff ... Im completely disappointed.  I do not want to have to betray and have all my spells be reset ... do you any idea how much time and plat that would waste O.O.  Ugghh ... this is game breaking ... if this happens I won't want to even log in my defiler, whom I love to play currently.</p><p>Please ... someone from SoE give us some kind of equality ... give us a different 65 spell ... we are NOT DPS class ... I would rather have a buff, debuff, or specialty heal of some kind.  PLEASE FIX this.</p><p> </p><p>P.S.  Makes you wonder if anyone on the dev team actually ever plays a defiler.</p>

[NimSul]

<div>Sadly devs very rarely read class forums unless they are playing that class, if you remember warden forums at start of dof cos raijinn plays a warden :smileyvery-happy:</div><div> </div><div>Would be cool if someone posted screenies of all the healer lvl 65 spells in spell forums so everyone can see them together and a dev might spot the clear flaw that is defile</div><div> </div><div>Defiler: <a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=20&message.id=7677">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=20&message.id=7677</a></div><div>Fury: <a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=17&message.id=10439">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=17&message.id=10439</a></div><div>Inquisitor: <a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=14&message.id=7496">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=14&message.id=7496</a></div><div>Mystic: <a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=19&message.id=11325">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=19&message.id=11325</a></div><div>Templar: cant find pic but its a damage pet that does: Quote from Reznor: "Stats on hammer pet, 45 sec duration at adept 1, on even/yellow con mobs hits between 150-400 with about a 2.4second delay."</div><div>Warden: no pic either but its a cure: Quote from Morie: Tranquility (65) - single target cure that removes all hostile effects and heals target for each effect removed.  Heals for 347 per effect removed at adept 1.</div><div>Would do it myself if i accually had a clue how to post the screenies.:smileysad:</div>

[werl]

I changed location for this post, so everyone should move the up in arms to the new location, hopefully a dev will seehttp://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=5818<div></div>

[Feanor Baugl]

This aint even fun I only have one toon my 59 Defiler and I wouldn't consider doing a new one. Dev's must realise that if they go thru with this it'll be a devestating blow to Defiler community... <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I hope they realise this before its to late<div></div>

[maxa]

<div></div>OMG I didnt make Defiler to play Mystic.... I am not going to betray or anything, as I stated before I will just quit playing. I am a Defiler, Im supposed to be a debuffer, im not a warlock to have an AE dot. Who on earth gonna use such a n00b AE dot at raid ? The only use of that crap spell is gonna be doing greay writs =/Im just waiting will a single dev reply to this topic? lol<div></div><p>Message Edited by maxa0n on <span class="date_text">02-12-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:48 AM</span></p>

[Feanor Baugl]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>maxa0n wrote:<div></div>Im just waiting will a single dev reply to this topic? lol<div></div><p>Message Edited by maxa0n on <span class="date_text">02-12-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:48 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I've only seen a staff reply on defilers forum when he/she made a reply saying he'd moderated something. atleast its so far between that I can't remember when i last saw it.It would be nice if somone could explain the reasons behind making Defile as it is. One reason could be because we as a community has been asking for more dps, and that's really the only reason I can see atm anyway. So instead of speculations on my part I'll just gonna do as u, wait for a reply....</span></div>

[lordblackhea]

<div></div>as much as i have seen Dev nevers comes into defiler forms yet alone ever post here we all ways git the blackball . Defilers have been giting screwed over from start one why would they stop now ? ... there are so many things wrong with our class and with the add on comeing they not adding to the prob there killing the class all togather . #1 our debuff that cuts a mobs stats by a % never changes from frist time we git it to now only cost more power it never upgrades .... #2 with the new add on we dont git a ward coice as a master 2 ... # 3 we dont even git a Group Ward with the new add on ( didnt see that one comeing ) .... # 4 our Wraith form sucks who wants to be a puffy little cload of nothing .... # 5 our New dog pet in the new add on is a 3 arrow down [Removed for Content] wrost then a dumnfire pet ( not like good ol dog in EQ1 ) ... and lastly #6 our lvl 65 uber spell is a peice of crap AE Dmg while a mystic gits a sweet buff ......... SoE .... FTW ... you just ended a class hope your happy none of us want to play a Defiler any more :smileymad: .... i seems to me unless your a one of the big shots that play a class like blackguard ( bruiser ) yha git the short end of the stick and in our chace end of ever being usefull in a group or a raid when you can have another mystic ... Thanks SoE ~!~! ....... Unholy lvl 60 Defiler of Everfrost

[Feanor Baugl]

This info has been gatherd from the subclass froum frm various postsTEMPLAR:Unswerving Hammer of Faith.  It's a short term pet that assist during combat.  Per Reznor: "Stats on hammer pet, 45 sec duration at adept 1, on even/yellow con mobs hits between 150-400 with about a 2.4second delay."WARDEN:65) Tranquility - single target cure that removes all hostile effectsINQUISITOR: (havent seen the M1 version)<img src="http://web.telia.com/%7Eu19311946/verdict.jpg">FURY:<img src="http://web.telia.com/%7Eu19311946/Call%20of%20Storms.jpg">MYSTIC:<img src="http://web.telia.com/%7Eu19311946/Bolster.jpg">DEFILER:<img src="http://web.telia.com/%7Eu19311946/Defile.jpg"><div></div>

[Swishwah]

<div></div><p>Nice, feel that SOE love again....</p><p>Options: Reroll - can't be asked to start from scratch</p><p>  Betray - I chose a defiler for a reason, just because I've been screwed on, why should I have to change from playing a once enjoyable character all because someone has a bee in his bonnet over Defilers?  Broken wards were tollerable, but this is beyond the joke.  Nerf doesn't even begin to describe 'Defile'</p><p>  Leave - Yep, why pay AU$20 a month on a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ty game with no reward?  I can think of better things to be doing with that $20 as we speak and that was before I read this post.  If this is the final outcome for defilers, I'm not going to wait 6 months or 9 months to get fixed.  As far as I'm concerned DoF was enough of a letdown.  Bite me again and I'm gone.</p>

[Varl]

<div></div><p>What we should really be after, instead of getting crazy about the dot (yes i know it sux), is getting the AA strength path final reward made into a permanent self buff.  Immunity to AoE effects is something that Brigs have had for a long time so it would not be too overpowering and would make us a very valuable addition to any MT group. </p><p>And, as far as Mystics getting a better 65, we have pwned them in MT buffing AND in soloing dps for 60 levels. I have watched Mystics try to solo stuff, and it is pathetic.  This will only bring them a little closer to what we can already do.  ALSO, something to be considered, the buff is ONLY good for the pull.  Working with the same principle as STA debuffs, it only raises the cap, once the HP has been removed, the cap is meaningless and the HP are not increased when it is raised/lowered.</p><p>Scream to get us immune to AoE.  That is a FAR better use of our energy.  The class distinction will take care of itself when the expansion comes out.  We still PWN Mystics.  We get a regenerative group ward, theirs is single target and stuns them.  We get more dps, we buff for more, and we heal for more.  The 65 is gonna be a limited use thing for pulls ONLY.</p><p>Let Mystics have their hallmark... I say give me a PERMANENT AoE immunity at the end of my strength AA path.  THAT is class defining!  Let's get "UP IN ARMS NOW" about that.</p>

[GidionSWE]

<div></div><div>Theyre nerfing the brigands AE avoid skill though:</div><div> </div><div><strong>Brigand changes:</strong>- Amazing Reflexes will break if the Brigand takes damage. Its reuse timer after breaking is 30 seconds.</div><div>i would however like to see the recast on our ae avoid AA be reduced to something like 2 minutes.</div><div> </div><div>Edit: Oh and Defile sure does suck</div><p>Message Edited by GidionSWE on <span class="date_text">02-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:03 AM</span></p>

[Varl]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>They don't take damage from the AoE though.  So, they break in the same way, namely, if they are targeted directly.  That is good enough for me.  As a healer I don't plan on jousting with the mob, and I don't plan on being high enough on the agro list to be the mob's target, but if I am, then it breaks.  So be it.  That i can live with as a buff. That I will take in a New York Minute. </p><p> </p><p>By the way, I have never understood that colloquialism.  Are minutes faster in New York than they are everywhere else?</p><p>Message Edited by Varlet on <span class="date_text">02-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:59 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Varlet on <span class="date_text">02-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:00 AM</span></p>

[SunT]

<div></div><p>Looks like our total Damage is the same as the same as the first round of the Fury.  Then they get 15 more.</p><p> </p>

[NimSul]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Varlet wrote:<div></div><p>What we should really be after, instead of getting crazy about the dot (yes i know it sux), is getting the AA strength path final reward made into a permanent self buff.  Immunity to AoE effects is something that Brigs have had for a long time so it would not be too overpowering and would make us a very valuable addition to any MT group. </p><p>And, as far as Mystics getting a better 65, <font color="#ff0000">we have pwned them in MT buffing AND in soloing dps</font> <font color="#ff0000">for 60 levels</font>. I have watched Mystics try to solo stuff, and it is pathetic.  This will only bring them a little closer to what we can already do.  ALSO, something to be considered, the buff is ONLY good for the pull.  Working with the same principle as STA debuffs, it only raises the cap, once the HP has been removed, the cap is meaningless and the HP are not increased when it is raised/lowered.</p><p>Scream to get us immune to AoE.  That is a FAR better use of our energy.  The class distinction will take care of itself when the expansion comes out.  We still PWN Mystics.  We get a regenerative group ward, theirs is single target and stuns them.  We get more dps, we buff for more, and we heal for more.  The 65 is gonna be a limited use thing for pulls ONLY.</p><p>Let Mystics have their hallmark... I say give me a PERMANENT AoE immunity at the end of my strength AA path.  THAT is class defining!  Let's get "UP IN ARMS NOW" about that.</p><hr></blockquote><p>First off, mystics was pre dof way far and ahead of defilers when it comes to mt buffing, they had resistance buffs we didnt. They had everything we had other than than too. So mystics have owned us from 1-50, from 50-60 we are borderline better with raw hp stacking up to more that sta buffs does, and the need to have tendrils on the mt for us to do all our debuffs.</p><p>Secondly, AA's are shared by all shamen and have nothing to do with the lvl 65 spell, making a uber AA for us would change nothing in the relation to mystics. On a side note personally i dont even want a permanent ae avoid, it would make my gear even more useless, with that i could raid nakked and the only difference to my healing power would be how long i can heal for - byebye character progression</p>

[BrickyardRac]

<div></div><div>Wow, Defile is really one horrendous spell.</div><div> </div><div>At least name it something else, so that the spell our class is named after isn't one of our worst.</div>

[SinisterEx]

<div></div>So much complaining sigh. Everyone is all upset about some beta samples we are seeing. First off, if you are going to reroll on a new char. or quit b/c we get the short end of the stick on one spell go for it. Go complain somewhere else. Right now defilers rock, and are prob. the strongest of the priest classes. I can solo by far more then any other healer I know of, or heard of. Did we not get the best pet at lvl 58? Not sure but i think we did. At master 1 spiritual seal wards ~680 every 3 sec for a min. Mystics pet sucks in comparrison. I don't have the stats off hand, but seen them enough to know our pet is much better. Its one spell people, you act like if we don't get the best its the end of the world. Relax, wait til KoS, defilers went through many worse problems then one spell being not so uber. And if you are looking for one class that is always going to get the best, well now, thats just silly. Then everyone would be playing the class, you would never get masters, and it just wouldn't be fun. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Sharrah]

<div></div><p>Ok everyone stop panicing.   Yes Defile is a suxy spell but we are use to that. I dont see Mystics replacing us in the MT group at all. No tank will give up our HP buffs for a limited pull buff that takes 2 minutes to be able to recast.  My MT will have killed 3 or 4 mobs in that time span. Yes on a particular mob with a big hit on the pull the Mystic spell will come in handy but I see using a Mystic in the MT with a Defiler because the HP buff will be need through out the fight.  I do not intend to stop playing my Defiler or betraying to become a Mystic,  In six months there will be another expansion and all things will change again.</p><p> </p><p>There is my 2 cents, thank you for listening <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[SunT]

<div></div><p>A good pull is 80% of the raid.</p><p>They will without question replace Defiler.</p><p>But that is not the issue.</p><p>The issue is the spell sux and all other priest spells are great.</p><p>We need a new spell and I dont care who is in MT group.</p>

[Feanor Baugl]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>SinisterEx wrote:So much complaining sigh. Everyone is all upset about some beta samples we are seeing. First off, if you are going to reroll on a new char. or quit b/c we get the short end of the stick on one spell go for it. Go complain somewhere else. <font color="#6633ff">Right now defilers rock, and are prob. the strongest of the priest classes. I can solo by far more then any other healer I know of, or heard of</font>. Did we not get the best pet at lvl 58? Not sure but i think we did. At master 1 spiritual seal wards ~680 every 3 sec for a min. Mystics pet sucks in comparrison. I don't have the stats off hand, but seen them enough to know our pet is much better. <font color="#6633ff">Its one spell </font>people, <font color="#6633ff">you act like if we don't get the best its the end of the world. Relax, wait til KoS, defilers went through many worse problems then one spell being not so uber. And if you are looking for one class that is always going to get the best</font>, well now, thats just silly. Then everyone would be playing the class, you would never get masters, and it just wouldn't be fun. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><hr></blockquote>I disagree that we are the strongest priest class, we are the best at sertant things but on others we stink. that is just how balance and diversity between the classes work. It's not the end of the world off course not, but why should one side get a superb spell and the other one get a really bad one. And yes I know it's just beta but if no one would "complain" then it would go live thus the necessity to critise it now before it goes live. And since its just "one spell" why not giving some more thought about both? And since when is "went thru worse problems before" ever a valid reason?I'm not trying to get the best all the time nor am I looking for the "best" class", the only thing I ask for is balance. If they make one spell that suppose to be special then it should be balances between them simple as that, and based on the screenies of them its not plain and simple.I only have my Defiler and don't consider a reroll or a betrayal as an option and</span><span> I feel I'll be less wanted then a Mystic if those spells end up in live thats why Im concernd</span><span> further more my issue aint just about the known facts about the spell I don't see a reason to hide how much dmg it does closer to death other then because it's not so different as the known dmg</span><span>A question for u, do u actually like the spell as it is and think its not really bad compared to our good counterpart, if u do please let me know why</span></div>

[Sokolov]

Change it to a AE DoT that increases group power for its duration and it'd be useful.<div></div>

[SunT]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sokolov wrote:Change it to a AE DoT that increases group power for its duration and it'd be useful.<div></div><hr></blockquote>That job is for chanters and bards.  I will be [Removed for Content] if I see that.  Chanters have enough trouble without having a healer that does group regen.

[MalkorGodchyld]

<div></div><div></div><p><font size="2">Or in the spirit of Debuffing....increases cast/ refresh times & CA's by 8 sec's or something.</font></p><p><font size="2">2 possible casts while defile is up?   </font></p><p><font size="2"></font> </p><p><font size="2">~ Retired 60 Defiler ~</font></p><p>Message Edited by MalkorGodchyld on <span class="date_text">02-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:07 AM</span></p>

[Sokolov]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>SunTsu wrote:<blockquote><hr>Sokolov wrote:Change it to a AE DoT that increases group power for its duration and it'd be useful.<hr></blockquote>That job is for chanters and bards.  I will be [Removed for Content] if I see that.  Chanters have enough trouble without having a healer that does group regen.<hr></blockquote><span></span></span><span>We already do it tho.  Don't you use Maelstrom?  </span><span>Plus we have Forced Cannibalize.Enchanters' regen are more of a slow steady constant supply, whereas the type we have so far is faster infusions but not direct power feed like Sorcerers.I don't know, you may not agree, but I think it fits the flavor of the Defiler class.</span><span><font color="#ff0000"><b></b></font></span><div></div>

[Goozman]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>SunTsu wrote:<div></div><p>A good pull is 80% of the raid.</p><p>They will without question replace Defiler.</p><p>But that is not the issue.</p><p><font color="#ff0000">The issue is the spell sux and all other priest spells are great.</font></p><p>We need a new spell and I dont care who is in MT group.</p><hr></blockquote>roflz omg [Removed for Content] lolz haha woof woof

[NimSul]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sokolov wrote:<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>SunTsu wrote:<blockquote><hr>Sokolov wrote:Change it to a AE DoT that increases group power for its duration and it'd be useful.<hr></blockquote>That job is for chanters and bards.  I will be [Removed for Content] if I see that.  Chanters have enough trouble without having a healer that does group regen.<hr></blockquote><span></span></span><span>We already do it tho.  Don't you use Maelstrom?  </span><span>Plus we have Forced Cannibalize.Enchanters' regen are more of a slow steady constant supply, whereas the type we have so far is faster infusions but not direct power feed like Sorcerers.I don't know, you may not agree, but I think it fits the flavor of the Defiler class.</span><span><font color="#ff0000"><b></b></font></span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Group power regain isnt very defilerish and it would be a shame to take one of chanters and partly bards class defining abilitys and give it to others. Self power regain is defilerish, but we have this and more would make it overpowered. Defilers are all about buffs/debuffs/wards in short preventing damage.</p><p>Maelstrom - nope this spell i only ever use for soloing triple down quests or the huge encounters in PPR/PP, its more of a fluff spell than anything else.</p>

[Supa Mint Flava]

<div>The 65 spell description is hilarious......it has to be a mistake.  SOE can't intend that as the finished product (fear lingers in the back of my mind).  Rather, they probably didn't know what direction the spell would take yet, so they just stuck a crummy DoT in for the time being.</div><div> </div><div>I've been busting my *ss leveling a defiler for raiding (p.s., "Hi Sham...get your butt back to Neriak (now Kithicor)&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.....had hopes for this class.</div><div> </div><div>Altus, 60 Dirge, Kithicor</div><div>Boehm, 60 Necro, Kithicor</div><div></div><p>Message Edited by Supa Mint Flava on <span class="date_text">02-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:20 AM</span></p>

[Sokolov]

<span><blockquote><hr>NimSul wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sokolov wrote:<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>SunTsu wrote:<blockquote><hr>Sokolov wrote:Change it to a AE DoT that increases group power for its duration and it'd be useful.<hr></blockquote>That job is for chanters and bards.  I will be [Removed for Content] if I see that.  Chanters have enough trouble without having a healer that does group regen.<hr></blockquote><span></span></span><span>We already do it tho.  Don't you use Maelstrom?  </span><span>Plus we have Forced Cannibalize.Enchanters' regen are more of a slow steady constant supply, whereas the type we have so far is faster infusions but not direct power feed like Sorcerers.I don't know, you may not agree, but I think it fits the flavor of the Defiler class.</span><span><font color="#ff0000"><b></b></font></span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Group power regain isnt very defilerish and it would be a shame to take one of chanters and partly bards class defining abilitys and give it to others. Self power regain is defilerish, but we have this and more would make it overpowered. Defilers are all about buffs/debuffs/wards in short preventing damage.</p><p>Maelstrom - nope this spell i only ever use for soloing triple down quests or the huge encounters in PPR/PP, its more of a fluff spell than anything else.</p><hr></blockquote>In one breath you say that power regen is overpowering but in the next breath you call it fluff?  Just found that kind of odd.Granted Maelstrom does stun you, but that's a limitation that can be worked around.  I use it all the time, even as a sole healer in Poet's Palace, it is also quite handy in raid situations where every bit of extra power counts.I think the idea of a Defiler dealing damage to creatures and draining their spirit as power to be quite in line with the flavor of the class.  Of course, at the moment passive power regen IS more or less the sole dominion of Enchanters and Bards, BUT active power regen is not - both of the other mage classes have the ability to provide active power transfers to other players.  Continuing to give Defilers minimal active power regen would, in my opinion, not overpower the class, especially if it was just an augmentation of a clearly underpowered spell.</span><div></div>

[fitzerelli]

<div>many many defilers bragged whole way through dof about how they own mystics and what not, now being brought back down to size and complaining, lol, sorry bout your luck, but hopefully what goes around comes around. btw i play a raiding mystic and beleive shamans should be more evenly balanced aka NEITHER shaman should own the other. Im also glad to see inquisies gettin some love as they were totally nerfed into prob the worst healing class throughout dof.</div>

[Sokolov]

*shrug* Personally I thought we were balanced.  We do buff direct HP better but they buff Power and Stats better.  We have different debuffs, but overall about the same.  Our buff lines are all very similiar.  I just like my Defiler better, that's all... probably because I play one, go figure =D<div></div>

[Feanor Baugl]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Sokolov wrote:*shrug* Personally I thought we were balanced.  We do buff direct HP better but they buff Power and Stats better.  We have different debuffs, but overall about the same.  Our buff lines are all very similiar.  I just like my Defiler better, that's all... probably because I play one, go figure =D<div></div><hr></blockquote>Same here, that's one reason I get upset since I feel they changed that balance.</span></div>

[maxa]

<div></div><div></div>heyy altus =) long time no see =) what lvl is ur defiler =)It would be really funny if SOE doesnt fix that spell at all.... and it stays 70-80 AE dot..... lol... its gonna be the only damage spell we have that does not have any debuff / regen effect built in... very defilerishI know players who thought their class sucked but didnt quit game just becasue they had a SINGLE very uber spell. And also I know some players who thought their class didnt suck but quit game / make an alt just to have uber spells. Think about that SOE.Shamaxaon60 Defiler of XanaduRunnyeye Server<p>Message Edited by maxa0n on <span class="date_text">02-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:10 PM</span></p>

[NimSul]

<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>Sokolov wrote:</p><p><span>In one breath you say that power regen is overpowering but in the next breath you call it fluff?  Just found that kind of odd.Granted Maelstrom does stun you, but that's a limitation that can be worked around.  I use it all the time, even as a sole healer in Poet's Palace, it is also quite handy in raid situations where every bit of extra power counts.</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>Getting quite off topic here but ok, a group powerregain would severely overpower us compared to other healers because atm the only thing you can affect healing with is how long you can do it and thats all about regain.</p><p>Maelstrom is a fluff spell because the regain on it will never ever be usefull in a real game situation. If your group is running out of power and you can spare the healing that comes from the defiler then your waaay overhealing, and in stead of stunning the defiler you should have everyone conserve their power a lil more. Theres not a single situation where if you can afford to stun a healer that you should run oop.</p>

[Feanor Baugl]

Since most of us including me disslike how Defile is atm, and we want it changed. What would u want instead?.In general I'd like to have more dps but not as a new spell but as an increase in dmg to the spells I already have, not likly that'll happen since it might effect the balance in a negative way.What I think Defile should be is more inline with the Mystic Marquee  a debuff but different can't say how different I just don't want it exactly the same since we are two different classes. And since I can't think of how it "should  be" I figured some of u must have suggestions, try not to think of the über thing more in line with what u think would balance our spell against the other heal classes. Cause if we can't give a suggestion on how we like it to be then its more or less just complaints and not consctuctive critisim.Thanks in advance<div></div>

[Dayren]

<div></div>Well if it  must be a dmg spell then scale it to T7 and not &T4 but i much rather have a debuff thats defbuffs the mob by like 100% debuff to All stats and slows it by 50% and lower resists but with in reason i mean that buff that mystics got is Super Nice.

[Docimodo]

<div></div><p>posted this in partial reply in another thread but heres my suggestion</p><div>They should make these temporary single target buffs able to be placed raid wide and that would solve everything or even better;</div><div>Have defile remain as an aoe dot BUT u cast it on a group friend. The aoe is centered at him/her and all damage done by the aoe is converted into a ward on that target. A boost in its damage might help too. (I like this idea as it seems in keeping with our 'subjugation of the spirits to aid our allies' class description)</div>

[Sokolov]

<div></div><div></div><span><blockquote><hr>NimSul wrote:<blockquote><hr><p>Sokolov wrote:</p><p><span>In one breath you say that power regen is overpowering but in the next breath you call it fluff?  Just found that kind of odd.Granted Maelstrom does stun you, but that's a limitation that can be worked around.  I use it all the time, even as a sole healer in Poet's Palace, it is also quite handy in raid situations where every bit of extra power counts.</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>Getting quite off topic here but ok, a group powerregain would severely overpower us compared to other healers because atm the only thing you can affect healing with is how long you can do it and thats all about regain.</p><p>Maelstrom is a fluff spell because the regain on it will never ever be usefull in a real game situation. If your group is running out of power and you can spare the healing that comes from the defiler then your waaay overhealing, and in stead of stunning the defiler you should have everyone conserve their power a lil more. Theres not a single situation where if you can afford to stun a healer that you should run oop.</p><hr></blockquote></span>Hmm.. how do I explain this?The problem you seem to be having is you think active power regen is only useful when you are about to run out of power, with the corrollary that you only run out of power if you need the Defiler's healing.  Both of which are untrue assumptions."<span>Theres not a single situation where if you can afford to stun a healer that you should run oop."There TOTALLY is.</span>In some fights, it isn't a matter of "giving up" the Defiler's healing power - it's total healer power that matters more.  In fact, as you say, overhealing is the problem which might be even worse if the Defiler was also healing.  The Defiler should also be debuffing and one of the primary reasons a Defiler is in the MT group is for her buffs.  This is of course not to say that Defilers shouldn't heal, of course we should, but providing power for every member of the group, even for a short period, goes a long raid in a power crucial fight.  A fight where having a Defiler stunned is detriminmental you obviously cannot use Maelstrom, but then you are not really looking at a power problem so much as can your healing keep up (which in the long run turns into a power problem, but one can see that your tank might already be dead before that happens if incoming DPS was really that bad that you cannot do anything else, especially given how good our debuffs are).  There is also no law that states you cannot cancel Maelstrom at will, even 2 ticks of the thing goes a long way when you consider that it's a group power regen (and let's not forget it also heals a small amount. (Also, when used in conjunction with other healer's equivalent stun heals, they are quite power efficient and powerful.)I am not saying Maelstrom is uber and should be used all the time, but it's hardly just fluff simply because you don't how to or choose not to use it. A spell like Abominus is fluff, Maelstrom is not.  Compare the 2 spells: clearly they are not in the same class.~Anyway, I still don't think a small (it wouldn't be big) power regen tacked onto an AE DoT would overpower the class, but you are free to disagree with that, of course.  My thinking though is that considering both the damage and power regen amount can be tweaked, it can easily be in the realm of plausibility from a game balance point of view.  As it is now the spell is worthless, if it had a minor power regen, I'd actually use it.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Sokolov on <span class="date_text">02-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:21 AM</span></p>

[SunT]

<div></div><p>Sokolov, the classes with all the epic abilities broken like Illusionists need better power regen tools but a class with as much ability that still functions on Epics does not need more regen.  You are feeding off bards secondary and chanters primary jobs when you do that.</p><p>From a Defiler standpoint that would be great but from an Illusionist standpoint it would be near game breaking.  We already have nothing that affects epis and only bring crack to raids so what do we do if you can generate crack and dont need us?</p><p>As it is the Shaman AA tree is giving spell slow on epics, which should be a chanter ability.  You have all the debuffs, leave the crack to the chanters.</p>

[Tins]

<div>Only a suggestion.</div><div> </div><div>Defile currently has a 16 second duration and ticks every 2 seconds.  What if the spell dmg increased each tic by an amount relative to each tier.  (1,2,3,4 etc...)  I'm just making these numbers up for the sake of illustrating my point.</div><div> </div><div>For example</div><div> </div><div>On cast the spell inflics 25 dmg to each target up to 8 targets, Tier 1 tic </div><div> </div><div>First tic 50 dmg to each target, this would be the Tier 2 tic</div><div> </div><div>Second tic 100 dmg to each target, as the Tier 3 tic</div><div> </div><div>Third tic 150 dmg to each target, Tier 4 tic</div><div> </div><div>Fourth tic 220 dmg to each target, Tier 5 tic</div><div> </div><div>Fifth tic 300 dmg to eaach target, Tier 6 tic</div><div> </div><div>Sixth tic 380 dmg to each target, Tier 7 tic</div><div> </div><div>7th / 8th tic 400 dmg to each target.</div><div> </div><div>If the DoT hit the max number of targets and lasted its entire duration it would total about 16K worth of dmg.</div><div> </div><div>-Tinson</div>

[Sokolov]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>SunTsu wrote:<div></div><p>Sokolov, the classes with all the epic abilities broken like Illusionists need better power regen tools but a class with as much ability that still functions on Epics does not need more regen.  You are feeding off bards secondary and chanters primary jobs when you do that.</p><p>From a Defiler standpoint that would be great but from an Illusionist standpoint it would be near game breaking.  We already have nothing that affects epis and only bring crack to raids so what do we do if you can generate crack and dont need us?</p><p>As it is the Shaman AA tree is giving spell slow on epics, which should be a chanter ability.  You have all the debuffs, leave the crack to the chanters.</p><hr></blockquote>You do realize that Warlocks have a group power drain right?  Active power regen has NEVER been the chanter's ability in EQ2.  Stop confusing it with "Crack."Maybe you hate Sorcerers too, and Alchemists and their power regen potions (which work beautifully, btw).  Even tho I have those potions I still like having a Chanter in healer groups... go figure eh =P Short term active power regen is really not stepping on Enchanter's passive power regen toes, in my opinion, the two can co-exist.  The spell would also still be primarily a DoT, except it'd actually be useful while having a group benefiting effect that is at the same time detrimental to the mobs you fight - very Defilerish =DAnyway, that is not the only way to make the spell useful, just throwing out an idea that gives more play options.When the game was first being advertised, I thought Shamans would have weak long duration slows which would stack with Conc-Costing short duration powerful slows from Enchanters, and other such fun things.  Alas, we have pigeon hole classes with little variety instead, casting the same spells over and over.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Sokolov on <span class="date_text">02-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:58 AM</span></p>

[NimSul]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sokolov wrote:<div></div><div></div><span><blockquote><blockquote> </blockquote><p>Getting quite off topic here but ok, a group powerregain would severely overpower us compared to other healers because atm the only thing you can affect healing with is how long you can do it and thats all about regain.</p><p>Maelstrom is a fluff spell because the regain on it will never ever be usefull in a real game situation. If your group is running out of power and you can spare the healing that comes from the defiler then your waaay overhealing, and in stead of stunning the defiler you should have everyone conserve their power a lil more. Theres not a single situation where if you can afford to stun a healer that you should run oop.</p><hr></blockquote></span><p>Hmm.. how do I explain this?The problem you seem to be having is you think active power regen is only useful when you are about to run out of power, with the corrollary that you only run out of power if you need the Defiler's healing.  Both of which are untrue assumptions.</p><p><font color="#ff0000">If all your healers are at 70% power and mob is at 80% hp then your "running out of power". Running out of power has nothing to do with the amount of power you have, its all about your power being more or less than mob hp. When your power is going down faster than mob hp your running out of power.</font></p><p><font color="#ff0000">If you dont need the defilers healing to stay alive and your running out of power then your other healers are burning too much power and should slow down letting the defiler heal more to get an even distribution of power usage.</font>"<span>Theres not a single situation where if you can afford to stun a healer that you should run oop."There TOTALLY is.</span>In some fights, it isn't a matter of "giving up" the Defiler's healing power - it's total healer power that matters more.  In fact, as you say, overhealing is the problem which might be even worse if the Defiler was also healing.  The Defiler should also be debuffing and one of the primary reasons a Defiler is in the MT group is for her buffs.  This is of course not to say that Defilers shouldn't heal, of course we should, but providing power for every member of the group, even for a short period, goes a long raid in a power crucial fight.  A fight where having a Defiler stunned is detriminmental you obviously cannot use Maelstrom, but then you are not really looking at a power problem so much as can your healing keep up (which in the long run turns into a power problem, but one can see that your tank might already be dead before that happens if incoming DPS was really that bad that you cannot do anything else, especially given how good our debuffs are).  There is also no law that states you cannot cancel Maelstrom at will, even 2 ticks of the thing goes a long way when you consider that it's a group power regen (and let's not forget it also heals a small amount. (Also, when used in conjunction with other healer's equivalent stun heals, they are quite power efficient and powerful.)I am not saying Maelstrom is uber and should be used all the time, but it's hardly just fluff simply because you don't how to or choose not to use it. <font color="#ff0000">Its always a matter of giving up the defilers healing power, what you are saying is your giving up the defilers healing power to gain total heal power. What im saying is either you cannot afford to stun the defiler because your tank will die in the process, or you dont need the extra heal power because your problem is people overhealing or your simply overmatched in the encounter. Defilers cant overheal if they dont try to, wards stack up on top and are always fully used. Overhealing comes from spells overwriting eachother and hp heals hitting a tank thats at 100% hp.</font></p><p><font color="#ff0000">A whole other thing is that it costs 93/tick power to cast and gives 42-52/tick so the first 2 other healers in your group simply makes up for the defilers powerloss, which leads to you need 4 or more healers in your group to even gain overall power to healers.</font></p><p><font color="#ff0000">yes its a fluff spell, and yes i know all my spells very well :smileywink:</font></p><p></p><hr></blockquote>Back on topic and no more strolling off for me. I dont like the idear of taking group power regain away from chanters/bards, its what they do. Just like i would be very very sad if they got a ward because thats what we do.

[MilkToa]

<div></div><p>I think our class defining ability should be either a heal, a buff or a debuff since those are the abilities that  defines our class. I don't consider a defiler to be a DPS or power regen class even though we have some minor ability to do both.</p><p> </p>

[Sokolov]

<div></div>What you are not getting is not that Damage Per Second can be LESS than Heal Per Second but still make you run out of power - this is dependent on group/raid DPS output vs mob DPS output in relation to total power.  It depends on how fast the mob is dying.  As you say, you have to be killing the mob faster than your power is going down - a situation that can be affected positively by an ability like Maelstrom which does both damage, heals AND regens power.  You may or may not need a Defiler to be constantly healing - that doesn't really matter because it does happen where you have enough healing per second to keep up with the mob's damage, but you don't have enough to last through the entire fight.  In which case, giving up current healing for the Defiler (which isn't needed) for additional damage (shortening the fight and lessening total power required) and giving more power to the group (for both additional damage, healing and also important, taunts) is a good idea.Additionally, your math is screwed up on how many healers is needed to make Maelstrom break even on power regen for healers.  You need 2 [EDIT: 2 as in YOU and ONE other healer].  Because the Defiler herself will gain that power as well.  Any additional power given to anyone will be a bonus.  This is ignoring the fact that the spell heals AND does damage.~And I would point out again that ACTIVE power regen is NOT an Enchanter ability - their domain is PASSIVE power regen.  It's never been that way on EQ2.  If it should be, fine, I am just saying that arguing that it's their court is false and a misconception - that's like saying Mez is a Ward that prevents all damage.  Same effect (prevents damage), but different implementation.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Sokolov on <span class="date_text">02-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:49 AM</span></p>

[Poids]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>Sokolov wrote:<div></div>What you are not getting is not that Damage Per Second can be LESS than Heal Per Second but still make you run out of power - this is dependent on group/raid DPS output vs mob DPS output in relation to total power.  It depends on how fast the mob is dying.  As you say, you have to be killing the mob faster than your power is going down - a situation that can be affected positively by an ability like Maelstrom which does both damage, heals AND regens power.  You may or may not need a Defiler to be constantly healing - that doesn't really matter because it does happen where you have enough healing per second to keep up with the mob's damage, but you don't have enough to last through the entire fight.  In which case, giving up current healing for the Defiler (which isn't needed) for additional damage (shortening the fight and lessening total power required) and giving more power to the group (for both additional damage, healing and also important, taunts) is a good idea.Additionally, your math is screwed up on how many healers is needed to make Maelstrom break even on power regen for healers.  You need 2 [EDIT: 2 as in YOU and ONE other healer].  Because the Defiler herself will gain that power as well.  Any additional power given to anyone will be a bonus.  This is ignoring the fact that the spell heals AND does damage.~And I would point out again that ACTIVE power regen is NOT an Enchanter ability - their domain is PASSIVE power regen.  It's never been that way on EQ2.  If it should be, fine, I am just saying that arguing that it's their court is false and a misconception - that's like saying Mez is a Ward that prevents all damage.  Same effect (prevents damage), but different implementation.<div></div><hr></blockquote>A healer stunning himself is not a good thing... most of the raids will require you to heal as the tank will go down due to lack of healing and not lack of power. There's only a few raids in the entire game where you may be running out of power, and even on those you cannot stun yourself because your healing will be needed due to the difficulty of the encounter.And since you don't seem to know, chanters do deal in active regen such as mana cloak.</span></div><p>Message Edited by Poids on <span class="date_text">02-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:38 AM</span></p>

[Sokolov]

<div></div><div></div>1 - Stun duration is entirely voluntary.  You can get a full tick's benefit by cancelling it immediately after casting with zero stun time.2 - In my experience I've always had time to debuff and do other things in between wards in most raids.  If I am required to chain heal from start to finish there really isn't much to talk about and it doesn't matter what class of healer I am3 - If encounters are not causing you to run out of power (and I disagree, my guild's raids are often a matter of whether we have do enough damage before our healers are out of power)... then how can power regen be overpowering?4 - I would call manacloak a reactive power regen - which is more passive in nature - i.e. a buff that isn't triggered at will (active).  But that's just semantics, I suppose.  Simply put, if the effect is activated by a player at the time he wants it happen, then I call it active.  Triggered effects are somewhere between passive and active, I guess.5 - Just because I mix in a Maelstrom doesn't mean I stop healing completely for the entire raid.  Do your guild's healers find it necessarily to chain spam heal for most encounters?<div></div><p>Anyway, one of things about this talk that bothers is how readily these abilities are dismissed.  In a game like EQ2 that has been so streamlined there is little room for creativity and this is one spell that allows us to do something a little different.  The advantage to using it may not be very high, and in many cases one should not even use it, but complete dismissal just seems a bit too much to me.</p><p>~</p><p>Back on topic, Defile still sucks - something needs to be done, my idea or otherwise =)<span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Sokolov on <span class="date_text">02-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:09 AM</span></p>

[Poids]

As we don't run out of power... the spell is only useful for the damage. And since it's not that much damage on a single target, it's not really that useful. It is fun to see a defiler parse insane amounts of DPS on the tarsh in PPtR though. <span>:smileywink:</span><div></div>

[SunT]

<div></div><p>Look up Devitalizing Stare, Illusionist 48 and Devouring Thoughts Coercer 48.  It is active regen. </p><p>Regen is for bards and chanters not healers.</p><p>Also, your scenario states the Defiler gains power but I think the Defielr has a net negative as the spell cost is higher than the power gained.</p>

[lordblackhea]

<div>Okie all ... All fun and games aside with the 65 Class spells from mystic to defiler .... we are the other side of the same coin here one side evil other side good ..... mystic gits a heal pet we git a ward pet < again same as in each git a pet > but each do some thing more to there class . cus defilers ward more in a ward then i see mystics do and they do more healing so yha that would run in line all tho yes we did git the better of the two . now to the point the 65 spell Mystic git a single targit  < + size and adds to stats and hps > what runs along with the class being more single targit bace now for defilers ... we are more group bace as we have a good few < group dot Dmg > and such .... but another dot is not a even with each side of the Coin here its far from it and our class dont need another one . < BUT > giting back on track we are #1 more group bace and #2 more on debuffs then mystics so how i see it to keep things in line this is what we should git and makes very much sence after much thinking about it .... Our lvl 65 spell Defile .. Srinks group targits and lowering stats and dps .... Yep makes much sence now dont git .... mystic git a single targit buff that adds for the good what runs with there class and ours group that takes away from targits ... Both some what the same but not as we all ways been this i think is the best all around .... and would be funny as hell seeing the MT git huge what they will when Mystic cast there spell and they go runing in and then seeing the Mob or Mobs srink in size and stats ..... lol ..... huge tank and smaller mobs would be a crack up to say the lest and this way both sides in all will keep there balence an each of there 65 spells would go along more with there class's ...... Unholy lvl 60 Defiler of Everfrost</div>

[Feanor Baugl]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>lordblackheart wrote:<div align="left">Okie all ... All fun and games aside with the 65 Class spells from mystic to defiler .... we are the other side of the same coin here one side evil other side good ..... mystic gits a heal pet we git a ward pet < again same as in each git a pet > but each do some thing more to there class . cus defilers ward more in a ward then i see mystics do and they do more healing so yha that would run in line all tho yes we did git the better of the two . now to the point the 65 spell <font color="#6633ff">Mystic git a single targit  < </font><font color="#6633ff">+ size and adds to stats and hps</font><font color="#6633ff"> </font><font color="#6633ff">></font>what runs along with the class being more single targit bace now for defilers ... we are more group bace as we have a good few < group dot Dmg > and such .... but another dot is not a even with each side of the Coin here its far from it and our class dont need another one . < BUT > giting back on track we are #1 more group bace and #2 more on debuffs then mystics so how i see it to keep things in line this is what we should git and makes very much sence after much thinking about it ..<font color="#ffffff">.. </font><font color="#6633ff"><font color="#ffffff">Our lvl 65 spell Defile ..</font> Srinks group targits and lowering stats and dps</font> .... Yep makes much sence now dont git .... mystic git a single targit buff that adds for the good what runs with there class and ours group that takes away from targits ... Both some what the same but not as we all ways been this i think is the best all around .... and would be funny as hell seeing the MT git huge what they will when Mystic cast there spell and they go runing in and then seeing the Mob or Mobs srink in size and stats ..... lol ..... huge tank and smaller mobs would be a crack up to say the lest and this way both sides in all will keep there balence an each of there 65 spells would go along more with there class's ...... Unholy lvl 60 Defiler of Everfrost</div><hr></blockquote>Good Idea but for balance sake I'd say ours should be single as well, even tho we might be more group based</span></div>

[lordblackhea]

<div>yha true true ether way single or group bace a spell like this would make alot of sence then what there trying to give us but would rather see it group bace cus we are that :smileyhappy:</div>

[Sokolov]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>SunTsu wrote:<div></div><p>Look up Devitalizing Stare, Illusionist 48 and Devouring Thoughts Coercer 48.  It is active regen. </p><p>Regen is for bards and chanters not healers.</p><p>Also, your scenario states the Defiler gains power but I think the Defielr has a net negative as the spell cost is higher than the power gained.</p><hr></blockquote>My point is that other classes have always had active regen, it's only passive regen that chanters have had dominion over..Yes, it's a net loss for the Defiler.  (I did not intend to imply otherwise.)But with another player in group the total power for healers is broken even, any additional players is group power gain is what I meant.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Sokolov on <span class="date_text">02-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:08 PM</span></p>

[lordblackhea]

<div>mana regen is not mainly our class job so does not go as mcuh as i put up a srink beduff would up above what does run along with our class alot better we have mailstorm and Cann we doing just fine  ..... Unholy lvl 60 Defiler of Everfrost</div>

[Dayren]

<div></div>All i really have to say is PLEASE SOE fix this before it goes live

[lordblackhea]

<div>All and all it does fit dont it ... SoE is bringing back few things from EQ1 past again with this new Add on ... Good ol DogDog is back but is abit Gimpy being a 3 arrow down pet .... Mystic in Short are giting Growth what was in EQ1 but with a Big Kick to it .... So Why not Give Defilers Srink Mob or Mobs With a kick to it like a Debuff makes total sence to me Both sides would be happy Mystic with there new 65 Growth buff will slot them into MT groups what they been Crying about so as DoF came out if not before that and We git a Sweet Debuff and were Still in MT group cus MT dont want to give up our HP buffs and we know it . Just going to end up being two Shamen class's in MT groups now on 3 if they want to trow in a Cleric class what alot of MT like to run seeing Defiler and Mystic buffs stack up and trow in a cleric and he is Set ... All and All i would be Happy with this Just Dont screw over us with a Very Useless AE dot cus SoE's Thinkers could not think of any thing better after Hookin up ever other Healer class before us on there 65 spells ... Just cus we are not a Largely Played Class and we are not one of the Class's the Game thinkers Play Dont BlackBall use Yet Again ... Truely there is only so much you can do to us tell we give up on our class and EQ2 cus of it so think abit more plz</div>

[sostrows]

<div></div><div>screenie of Defile makes me want to defile some QN residents!!!!!</div><div> </div><div>I'll wait for expansion but that is bout the worst crapola I've seen.</div><div> </div><div>My class defining idea? Defile = drop all stats 50%, slow 50%, DPS slow 25%, noxious -2000 for ~6 seconds.</div><div> </div><div>A mega, very short duration debuff along the Brigand Dispatch idea.  Bump up stats if needed.</div><p>Message Edited by sostrows on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:09 AM</span></p>

[Feanor Baugl]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>sostrows wrote:<div>screenie of Defile makes me want to defile some QN residents!!!!!</div><div> </div><div>I'll wait for expansion but that is bout the worst crapola I've seen.</div><div> </div><div>My class defining idea? Defile = drop all stats 50%, slow 50%, DPS slow 25%, noxious -2000 for ~6 seconds.</div><div> </div><div>A mega, very short duration debuff.</div><hr></blockquote>Yes that's a great Idea, and I think compared to Mystics spells it would be balanced</span></div>

[zonedbob]

<div></div><p>I'm not going to start saying I'll quit or play an alt - I love being a defiler. But the Defile spell is a total disappointment.</p><p>Maelstrom is bad enough: yeah, it can be useful, but I'll go for days without casting it.</p><p>Main problem with the new spell is how weak it looks, especially compared with the other level 65s that have been posted. Defilers are more of a utility class than a lot of others, so a range of abilities is fine with me - but for a marquee spell, I want something that compares with what other classes - especially Mystics - are getting.</p><p>Please Devs, look after us.</p>

[sostrows]

<div></div><div>Defile = drop all stats 33%, slow 50%, DPS slow 25%, noxious -2000 for ~10 seconds & <u>AOE</u></div><div> </div>A mega, very short duration debuff along the Brigand Dispatch idea.  Bump up stats/duration if needed.Mystics get a grp mega short buff and Defilers should get a encounter grp mega short debuff.  Class defining.<div></div><p>Message Edited by sostrows on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:48 AM</span></p>

[Ansla-S]

I must say I agree with alot of different people here.Lets see how the spell turns out in live before you start posting how uber crappy this spell is.But on the other hand I understand very well the concern of the other Defilers.Looking at the 6 different defining spells....I must say I was shocked to see the stats on Defile.To me Defile looks like a medium strenght DoT that a warlock would get in the 40-50's, while all the other defining spells are......awesome.Like anotehr guy said.....make a post that compares ALL the 6 defining spells with screenies and such, then you all can post constructive opinions and suggestions there (if it hasnt already been).

[Raff]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>Anyone actually have a parse of the damage of Defile from test? I'd like to see the data before making any conclusions. I do like Sostrows ideas, but not willing to assume the spell is bad until I can see what it actually does. The description is weak, but implies it might be more potent than what it looks like on the surface.</p><p>Remember the EQ1 shammy weapon DoT? Wasn't much when first cast, but the damage was non linear w/ every tick. If you only noted the damage from the first tick of the DoT, it was very low (so it didn't draw hate) and would have been considered dssapointing. This spell looks to be similar to that DoT in function.</p><p>Isn't someone from test able to post damage parses or is that not allowed?</p><p> </p><p><em>Note: i did see comments using the spell on mobs w/ some data, I didn't see any data in the thread where the speel was used when mob health was <50%. If i missed that post, my apologies - long thread.</em></p><p>Message Edited by Raffta on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:37 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Raffta on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:52 PM</span></p>

[NimSul]

<div><blockquote><hr>Raffta wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>Anyone actually have a parse of the damage of Defile from test?</p><hr></blockquote>Ixnay tested it on beta servers and he said it what the pic says when mob is at 100% hp and it does the same when mob is at 5% hp, from the top of my head that would amount to 30-40 dps pr mob in the 7,5m area.</div><div> </div><div>Recently Erage has said that this spell has not been changed on beta so this is still the case :smileysad:</div>

[Raff]

<div></div><p>Thanks NimSul, I misread the 5% statement. If it's not changing in damage volume, it may simply be broke and not working as intended (bugged). Probably a tough spell to code if damage is inteded to be variable by mob's HP percentage.</p><p>Call me the optimist, but I'd like to see the spell working as intended (and confirmed to work as intended by the dev's) before writing it off as bad and in need of replacement. It is only in test after all, they could decide it's to complicated to implement and change the spell completely if it's been bugged for too long.</p>

[Docimodo]

<div></div>even if it did ten million damage i would still dislike this spell. The word parse makes me want to grind my teeth. Dps classes parse [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] to see whos best in some kind of obsessional competition to be numba one dpser with 6000 dps. I do not want to be anywhere on the dps parse. I am not a dpser. if i wanted to have ae dot dmg id roll a warlock but it seems we are going to be mine warlocks with all this dps spell.

[lordblackhea]

<div></div>Planely as i can put it .... If i wanted to be a DPS class i would make made one we all would ... it realy comes down to this our new lvl 65 spell not only dont follow our class in any way seeing we never goten a AE none group spell ever nor is DPS even one of our high points .... we < Heal > we < Buff > and we < Debuff > ... that is the bottom line that is our jobs DPS is not one of them and giveing this PoS to us is one uselss and two not going to be used much at all . That is the Bottom Line  ... Unholy lvl 60 Defiler of Everfrost

[Raff]

<div></div><p>Defilers are hybrid healers. Meaning that we intentionally resemble necros, its how or class is described as well. We also have two pre t7 AE DoT's, one of which is our T5 class defining spell, you know - the ae life/pow tap DoT. It shouldn't shock anyone that we have a new AE DoT tailored to our class AND a DoT that resembles a most cherished shammy spell in EQ1 that was a reward of the shammy epic.</p><p>We already debuff, buff & heal very well - the new pets will enhance this too. We are also very low on the charts of DPS for healers. This spell could be VERY cool if done well and fit the origional intention SOE had when creating our class. We are supposed to be the evil DPS healer with some pretty cool utility spells as well. That our damage is DoT based is consisent with all tiers so far. DoT's have pro's and cons depending on encounter, but that is what adds diversity to all the classes.</p><p>If you don't like this, then you chose poorly when you chose defiler. Now if the damage issues shown on test are fixed with Defile, Iwe will be able to see for ourselves if this spell is worth anything.</p>

[lordblackhea]

<div>may want to puff on your peace pipe a little longer your not totaly [Removed for Content] yet . cus your the only one here that thinks that hahaha .... defiler is this a Priest Class not a Mage Class < nuker > or a Scout class < melee DPS > are we not ..... um YES .... and yes a defiler can do some DPS to the point we can solo not the best at it nor are we fast at it and why is that ... oh yha WE ARE A HEALER .... you dont ask a wizard to Tank do you ... you dont ask a assassin to be group healer nor do you ask a Guardain for power regen and why is this ? ... Oh maybe cus its not there job of there class ... So in Short We are not DPS dont give us this PoS Dot that looks like it should have gone to a warlock or a necro in the frist place ... thank you thank you and good night < drops the Mic >  ....  Unholy lvl 60 Defiler of Everfrost:smileywink:</div>

[sostrows]

Raffta, true, we get 2 ae spells - Aphotic & MOD but both of these spells are not pure DPS spells.Aphotic is a DOT + noxious debuffMOD is a DOT/grp HOT/mana tap/grp mana gain ~ only 1/4 parts is a DPS component.Defile = ae DOTBased on damage quotes so far, I would never use Defile as I would favor Aphotic over it everytime.  This spell has to be a mistake.  Some cut and paste from a caster spell.<div></div>

[Raff]

<div></div><p>Agreed Sostrows, those spells aren't pure DPS, they have components other than damage, whic is what makes them usefull and fun.</p><p>To the other poster... don't infer I mean DPS healer = DPS primary role. Everyone does DPS, doing DPS doesnt mean you are a DPS class. Being a DPS healer means you can add value other than healing to a group. Not every group you are in will require you to heal, so contributing to DPS (not replacing a DPS class) is in fact valuable. We are not always in situations where we are the only healer in the perfect group. Sometimes we are in groups with 1-2 other healers and our healing isn't needed, or is only needed on heroic named encounters. When XP'ing questing, or just helping others out - I play much differently than I do when I raid. I like to hit on things in those situations, I like contributing to DPS when my wards keep my trank at 100% and I'm exiting every encounter at >95% mana. I like landing big debuffs on named and then DoT'ing then slapping down my dots and spam nuking HO's if my heals aren't needed. Guess my point is, I like to play my class, not sit and watch hitting my 3 primary heal buttons and moving from time to time.</p><p>By your assessment of what healers should be, we would all be a priest and have no need for diversity among classes. SOE has done a great job of balancing those core fundamentls of priests since lu13 (and yes I painfully waited since launch for those changes too). Now we are starting to see more diversity in our sub classes with these new changes, in line with the origional intentions of our classes. It may not be optimal in test yet, and the spell might even be broke when the expansion ships, which is ok. It will be weeks before the majority of us are at level to use the spell and they have time to work on it if it's broke. Personally, I want the DPS DoT. Everything else I have from a priest perspective is working just fine.</p>

[Docimodo]

<div></div><div>if the want us to do more dps just increase our other spells damage. whats worse about this spell is that its a pure aoe, therefore it's even more limited in its use.....</div>

[lordblackhea]

<div><in Sony rep voice > Come here little Defiler and bend over a little more so i can stick this corprit < Blep > in a little bit deep < tud >  a little bit deeper < tud > a little bit deeper .... Oops a Carlen flash back there ... Unholy lvl 60 Defiler of Everfrost</div>

[Raff]

<div>Merrissa, good point. Being that this spell has very unique qualities (like incremental damage increases per tick) and it's intended to be a class specific spell, it's not going to increase our per cast DPS. I don't think we need too much more enhancement in that area, or we would be too strong on a solo basis as compared to other healers. This is a good spell for situational encounters, or for burning a named w/ multiple adds. So it won't give us too much of an advantage for average. Also keep in mind you can still use the spell on single target encounters, I know I use MoD and Aphotic that way as well.</div><div> </div><div>I also reread the class discreptions again to verify what our objectives as classes are. I suggest others do as well. You will note we are the only healer class that is stated specifically "harm" enemies. Yes, it says we weaken (debuff) and heal etc, but it also says we harm. I intrepret harm to mean we damage. Those are exactly the reasons I chose a defiler at launch over a mystic, druid or cleric. Defilers are designed to be hybrids of the nec/warlock; it was stated many times in the origional descriptions pre-launch and expanded on by the dev's during those times. I think that has been overlooked over the last year as there were so many priest balancing issues and focus changed to resolve fundimentals problems we had.</div><div> </div><div>I know I'm in the minority regarding my opinion here on the forums. I hope others speak up and provide positive feedback and show evidence of why a little thing like the Defile spell is so bad for the Defiler; you know the healer that is "Fearsome in battl, employs ancient rituals of dark power to sicken, harm and reduce fighting prowess of the enemy."  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[MilkToa]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Raffta wrote:<div>Merrissa, good point. Being that this spell has very unique qualities (like incremental damage increases per tick) and it's intended to be a class specific spell, it's not going to increase our per cast DPS. I don't think we need too much more enhancement in that area, or we would be too strong on a solo basis as compared to other healers. This is a good spell for situational encounters, or for burning a named w/ multiple adds. So it won't give us too much of an advantage for average. Also keep in mind you can still use the spell on single target encounters, I know I use MoD and Aphotic that way as well.</div><div> </div><div>I also reread the class discreptions again to verify what our objectives as classes are. I suggest others do as well. You will note we are the only healer class that is stated specifically "harm" enemies. Yes, it says we weaken (debuff) and heal etc, but it also says we harm. I intrepret harm to mean we damage. Those are exactly the reasons I chose a defiler at launch over a mystic, druid or cleric. Defilers are designed to be hybrids of the nec/warlock; it was stated many times in the origional descriptions pre-launch and expanded on by the dev's during those times. I think that has been overlooked over the last year as there were so many priest balancing issues and focus changed to resolve fundimentals problems we had.</div><div> </div><div>I know I'm in the minority regarding my opinion here on the forums. I hope others speak up and provide positive feedback and show evidence of why a little thing like the Defile spell is so bad for the Defiler; you know the healer that is "Fearsome in battl, employs ancient rituals of dark power to sicken, harm and reduce fighting prowess of the enemy."  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><hr></blockquote><p>Why,  because I don't solo, I spend most of my time raiding and the rest in groups. My position in the raid is dependent on the abilities I bring to the raid and a pitiful DPS spell (relative to real DPS classes) does not enchance my raid value. This situation becomes even worse when other healing classes get spells that do enhance their raid value. Even if the spell did 10 times its current damage I would hate it. Sure an increase is DPS would be nice for the occassional solo situation but not at the expense of my core abilities. This is the only new spell we get and it sucks that it is one that I will most likely never cast. I understand that others play the class differently but it would be nice to get a spell that enhances most if not all play styles.</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by MilkToast on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:07 AM</span></p>

[Docimodo]

<div></div><p>thats my point. You hit it on the head squarely.</p><p>It will be situational whereas the mystic spell will be recast, as someone else had pointed out, at the exact moment the recast timer is gone.</p><p>I don't mind doing damage at all as long as its not damage for the sake of damage. I'm one of the few priests who will cast off all my damage spells (nearing the 50% mark on raid creatures) since it augments the raids dps as a whole and will mean i have to heal less. defile as it stands does not do that.</p><p>I agree it would be great to do damage without harming our ability to heal/buff/debuff but this spell does not allow us to do that. Forced cannibalise does for example (its probably our most class defining spell imo) it does damage and gives us more power to heal with. Defile does nothing but dps it is not class defining unless it has some other actual effect.</p>

[Raff]

<div></div><div></div><p>I mainly raid as well... I don't believe this spell negates our raid abilities or our position in the raid. We went from being the healer that had no use in a raid (save a sta debuff that everyone thought healed the mob) to being the most sought after raid healer in game and promoted to MT group in most guilds. I don't see that changing. If anything, I think the upcoming changes will encourage MT/raid groups to move classes around even more based on the encounters. Which again, is inline w/ the intentions from launch.</p><p>added: Thats fair feedback, Merrissa. And I would agree Canni is a very cool class spell.</p><p>Just my thoughts anyways. Time will tell.</p><p>Message Edited by Raffta on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:52 AM</span></p>

[NimSul]

<blockquote><hr>Raffta wrote:<div> </div><div>I also reread the class discreptions again to verify what our objectives as classes are. I suggest others do as well. You will note we are the only healer class that is stated specifically "harm" enemies. Yes, it says we weaken (debuff) and heal etc, but it also says we harm. I intrepret harm to mean we damage. Those are exactly the reasons I chose a defiler at launch over a mystic, druid or cleric. Defilers are designed to be hybrids of the nec/warlock; it was stated many times in the origional descriptions pre-launch and expanded on by the dev's during those times. I think that has been overlooked over the last year as there were so many priest balancing issues and focus changed to resolve fundimentals problems we had.<hr></div></blockquote>I reread the class description too, but the current one is not the one that was up when the game started when i picked my class. The harm thingy was not there, what was there that sounds a lil like it is "will draw strenght from the defilers enemies to augment the defilers allies" . Or something very close to that.

[Sokolov]

Maybe they should've split it up.  Temp HP buff for Mystics.  Temp Stat Tap for Defilers.Instead of having the mystic version do temp hp and stats.<div></div>

[NimSul]

<div></div>Split it up, thats would be quite cool.

[Ixnay]

<div></div><p>Defile and Bolster are still the same on beta today, Sunday.  KoS is going live on Tuesday. </p><p>Looks like these are going live.</p><p>Will be interesting when guilds start using 3 mystics in the MT group, seeing as how they will be able to buff the MT for about 5k HP at level 70, and for 7/8's of the time, with that set up.</p>

[Docimodo]

<div></div>[Removed for Content] thats an interesting tactic

[Erage]

<div></div>Yep those spells remained unchanged on Beta.  Defile is still broken, doesn't increase in damage as mobs HP lowers (as if that matters, spell is useless to me).  Our level 70 group ward is still not a group ward, but is the efflux buff line.  I've bugged this in the ground but with less than a day before it goes live, it doesn't look like any of it will change.  It is very frustrating to deal with the lack of dev attention to our issues, and has me looking elsewhere.

[Feanor Baugl]

<span><blockquote><hr>Erage wrote:<div></div>Yep those spells remained unchanged on Beta.  Defile is still broken, doesn't increase in damage as mobs HP lowers (as if that matters, spell is useless to me).  <font color="#ff0000">Our level 70 group ward is still not a group ward, but is the efflux buff line.  I've bugged this in the ground but with less than a day before it goes live, it doesn't look like any of it will change</font>.  It is very frustrating to deal with the lack of dev attention to our issues, and has me looking elsewhere.<hr></blockquote>I've gotten the impression that it aint a oversight or bugg. But find it odd if it wasn't since it has a name that implies that it's part of our group ward line.</span>

[Raff]

<div></div><p>Will be interesting when guilds start using 3 mystics in the MT group, seeing as how they will be able to buff the MT for about 5k HP at level 70, and for 7/8's of the time, with that set up.</p><p>__________________________________________________ ____</p><p>Chatting w/ my guild mystic this weekend, its obvious as it stands now, the mystic will be in the MT grp over my defiler. Should it turn out to be "the ultimate raid buff" and folks do start only using mystics, etc... It will likely see some changes <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (my speculation of course) There are disadvantages to relying on the spell as it is now - 2 minute recast and 664 total power (master 1). That's a sizeable amount of power for a 36 second spell for a caster that has no regen abilities (save gear and regen buffs which we all have access too). </p><p>The spell works like all other HP buffs too. If the tank isn't at full health, the buff only adds HP pool size, health% stays the same. Meaning if the tank's at 80% health and the mystic pops this buff off, you will have to heal even more to cap the tank's health only to lose the value (and healer power) of those heals after 36 seconds. This is sizeable if you look at a 10k tank (for simple math). 10k @ 80%= 8k. Land buff, tank is at 13,200hp pool and still at 8k effective health; 5200hp in heals have to be landed to get tank to max health, which he will lose after 36 seconds. Granted, the other attributes increased will still be valuable during that time. The spell isn't just point and click; the mystic will need to be smart about using it. It will also be easy to tweak the spell if it's too powerfull by upping power consumption or adding an immobile effect (like Maelstrom) or both.</p><p>FWIW, I'm glad mystics are getting this cool spell. They got a little short changed in DoF by comparision to our defilers and this gives them definate value in all raid groups now. I'm quite sure Defile will be fixed soon enough as well (crossess fingers). I'm also looking forward to hanging out in the DPS group w/ my defiler for a bit; lets face it, we are the bomb for group heal/warding and those poor saps will need us more in KoS. Maybe I'll work for haste and aoe immunities to give the DPS a reason to say, we GOTTA have a defiler.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  MT group is boring anyways. It's much harder to herd cats (scouts/mages) and get them to learn to stay near their healer during jousts etc. Now that will be a definate test of skills lol.</p>

[NimSul]

<div></div>Hehe raffta that post is just ... WOW ... are we playing the same game?

[Raff]

<div>You mean the post isn't negative, bashing other classes, complaining about what other ppl get, assuming defilers now suck, suggesting we all reroll or quit and overly critical of a single spell that's clearly broke on beta? Thanks <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> As far as how the buff works - well, I could be wrong as its based off of 2nd hand info from someone who has been beta testing a mystic. But if you've ever rebuffed a tank after dying mid fight in a raid and paid attention to your tanks HP when your portent buff lands, you might notice the same thing.</div><div> </div><div>Can't speak to what game you play, but I know what I play and how I play it. I manage to get by and have fun doing it. Guess we'll see tomorrow just how big the changes are. Course it'll be a few weeks and a few live updates before any of us are lvl 70 and raiding new content, which means tings will change. I'll be bugging defile if it's broke when i get to it, too.</div>

[Docimodo]

<div>have you not seen how much healing an MT gets when fighting orange con epics? that extra hp will be healed up so fast you wont even see it</div>

[Raff]

<div></div><div>have you not seen how much healing an MT gets when fighting orange con epics? that extra hp will be healed up so fast you wont even see it</div><div>_____________</div><div> </div><div>Nope, but i did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. </div><div> </div><div>Even though the MT would be healed fast in those situations, it's still spent healer mana thats negated after 36 seconds. The mystic will need to be wise and carefull when applying it was my point, especially in tight mana situations. Still a great spell, worthy of envy. Let's just not over react until we actually get these spells on live and see how things really work. No sense in jumping ship over one spell and crying over what the mystic got. Let them enjoy their spell and lets focus on what changes need to be made to Defile if it's not working when we get it.</div><p>Message Edited by Raffta on <span class="date_text">02-20-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:40 PM</span></p>

[Sokolov]

Well, it is true that the tank will need to be topped off, but the way I see it, 2 mystics and 1 warden might work well, regen benefits from not capping out all the time even tho wards are on to prevent health from dropping too far.  It becomes almost a win/win situation, other than the hefty mana cost on the Bolster.  Regardless of its limitations tho, it's still way cooler than Defile.<div></div>

[Jas]

Regarding stacking Mystics:  that's not how or why you would use Bolster anyways.  Bolster is best used as a pre-pull buff dropped on the MT, giving them a MUCH bigger HP pool to absorb the alpha strike.  Most likely, after the pull/when things are stabilized it wouldn't be used for the rest of combat.  It's almost like a 3k+ aggroless ward, like Spiritual Circle on steroids.  The best lineup for MT groups will still be Shaman/Cleric/Druid, due to buff stacking etc. but it will go from being "Defilers are marginally or situationally better" to "Mystics are way better" simply because of this one spell. Which of course, is okay, if we got something to compensate.  What would really be nice is a capped slow/stat debuff, of similar duration and timer (36 secs/3 mins) that was aggroless - basically the flipside of Bolster that we can use on the pull to help stabilize, then once things are set drop the standard debuffs.  Or really anything.  But part of this that burns, is that Mystics got a pat on the head and we got a kick in the crotch, which is bound to make anyone ornery.<div></div>

[MalkorGodchyld]

<div></div><div></div><p><font size="2">   Umm...Bolster is as good as it looks!   There's only one way to slice it folks...its uber.    Everyone seems to focus on the 32% HP increase but its also 32% to ALL stats...sheesh.   So if your sta. isnt maxed it'll be even more.    Congrats to mystics i say,  but somebody better do somethin about Defile...or hell atleast name it somethin else to take the sting off.     lol</font></p><p><font size="2"></font> </p><p><font size="2">Marius Darkchyld</font></p><p>Message Edited by MalkorGodchyld on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:30 AM</span></p>

[NimSul]

<div></div>I dont get how a spell called "Defile" can be anything but a debuff, i mean gees. And yea even a namechange would make it better, at least it would take some of the insulting part away.

[Dragonreal]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Erage wrote:<div></div>Yep those spells remained unchanged on Beta.  Defile is still broken, doesn't increase in damage as mobs HP lowers (as if that matters, spell is useless to me).  Our level 70 group ward is still not a group ward, but is the efflux buff line.  I've bugged this in the ground but with less than a day before it goes live, it doesn't look like any of it will change.  It is very frustrating to deal with the lack of dev attention to our issues, and has me looking elsewhere.<hr></blockquote>idk why the lvl 70 grp ward would still be an upgrade to the efflux line =/ the warden and I assume fury as well (I was too ditzy to remember to check that one or any others for that matter) have been fixed to be the correct effect judging by the sage recipes. If the shammys still don't have the correct effect for their lvl 70 spell then it's quite obviously a very big bug.

[sostrows]

/feedback Please change name of Defiler spell called "Defile" level 65 to "[Removed for Content] Aphotic".  Thanks.<div></div>

[Feanor Baugl]

<span><blockquote><hr>sostrows wrote:/feedback Please change name of Defiler spell called "Defile" level 65 to "[Removed for Content] Aphotic".  Thanks.<div></div><hr></blockquote></span>ROFLI noticed that Spiritual Circle is now a -3 arrow blue con pet, I guess SOE felt they needed to gimpify us even more, They realised that the pet couldnt be one hit killed by enough mobs so they made sure anything would do it... and thus the Defiler transform into the Gimpfiler.....

[zonedbob]

<div></div><p>Took my new pet out into KoS last night for a little walk, in between multiple server crashes on Splitpaw (I think Ubisoft forgot to download a lot of KoS).</p><p>He so isn't all that :smileysad: He's going to be pretty useless unless all my AA points go into the pet buffs. The good news is that if he doesn't get 1 hit killed, he'll be around for a while as a mini DPS supplement because he can't hold aggro to save his life. Or mine.</p><p>Please fix Defile. Give us something. Please.</p>

[Docimodo]

<div>not to mention having to banish the dog after half the fights it actually lives through due to pet incombat irritation bug</div>

[Ixnay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Feanor Bauglir wrote:<span></span>I noticed that Spiritual Circle is now a -3 arrow blue con pet, I guess SOE felt they needed to gimpify us even more, They realised that the pet couldnt be one hit killed by enough mobs so they made sure anything would do it... and thus the Defiler transform into the Gimpfiler.....<hr></blockquote><p>The Spiritual Circle pet is very green at 70 (I was 70 in beta and used it).  Based on the massively increased melee and AE damage of mobs in KoS, the pet now dies immediately upon any agro or AE.  I hate to say nerf, but Spiritual Circle is far more delicate now, and dies much faster and more often than it did before based on the relative difference in levels of the mobs we are fighting now vs. before.  So this pet will be up less, and provide much less benefit now than it did in the past.</p><p>I would like to see the Spiritual Circle pet scale to the level of the defiler, rather than remain at a fixed level of 60 (or is it 58 now?  I don't recall).  This would be in line with all other pets of all other classes - correct me if I'm wrong, but the mystic heal pet doesn't become green at higher levels, does it?</p>

[Dragonreal]

<div></div>Not sure about the mystic's bear/badger, but the warden tree that's prolly the best equivalent to the defiler's circle doesn't scale with lvl either.

[Geohi]

Dogdog sucks.I can understand that he wouldn't do any significant DPS. That's for sure.What I <b>can't</b> understand, is that he doesn't live longer than 20 seconds.  He is literally not worth summoning in EXP groups because he dies too fast and the casting time is too long. It's PATHETIC.  Buff his HP and keep his DPS the same and I'll be happy.-Geo<div></div>

[Jakoi]

How can this even be a LITTLE bit balanced.  Defilers were a little better off in the Main tank group pre-KOS.  If something isn't done between BOLSTER and DEFILE we may as well go into extinction.  Wards don't stack, most buffs don't stack.  Besides our slows (which are easy to hit the cap) if the Defiler and Mystic have equal Master/Adept 3's then Bolster is WAY WAY WAY out of whack w/ our joke of a dot.<div></div>

[Dayren]

<div>Well im really sad at how out pet sucks i never even use him and when i get defile i probobly wont even use that either even if it was 100ea tick atm i am grouping to kill lvl 67^^^ mobs and let me tell ya anything less then 5000pt of damage overall for a dot is worthless, but thats my opinion</div>

[Erage]

<div></div>The spiritual circle level does not bother me, thing had little HPs as is.  However, they need to increase the range of spiritual circle because it still only wards ~10m radius instead of 20m like the spell lists. 

[Jakoi]

Would love to see a reply from a Dev just so that we know that you're listening.  There are going to be a lot of disappointed Defilers at level 65.<div></div>

[Ixnay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Geohin1 wrote:Dogdog sucks.I can understand that he wouldn't do any significant DPS. That's for sure.What I <b>can't</b> understand, is that he doesn't live longer than 20 seconds.  He is literally not worth summoning in EXP groups because he dies too fast and the casting time is too long. It's PATHETIC.  Buff his HP and keep his DPS the same and I'll be happy.-Geo<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Ya, even casting Portent on dog dog, he goes down so frequently and fast it just isn't worth recasting, especially when you are chain pulling and it takes ten seconds to recast one.</p><p>The prob is that dog dog apparently has zero resists, and the *slightest* ae will make him instantly disappear.  At the minimum, IMO, dog dog should have my resists, and his hp sould be at least doubled so he is useful, or an ability should be added that I can earn to beef up his hp.</p><p>Thanks</p>

[Gimmiso]

When DoF came out I finally thought Defilers were getting better.... KoS has proved me wrongBetween a weak pet, a non-scaling ward pet that doesnt do what it says, and not having a single good nuke we are becoming nothing more than Buff Fluff.... and thats when they stack. We still can barely solo and with an average max DPS of about 50 we play no part in helping to kill these mobs with thousands of HP's.I would really hate to have to reroll a new toon because at Level 67 we are once again on the path to worthlessness....6 pages and no Dev response... these issues need to be addressed... soon!so my question to you all is this...  HOW DO WE GET THE DEVS TO LISTEN?<div></div>

[DarkMirrax]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>NimSul wrote:<div></div><p>Your normal no arrow mob has about 10k hp at high t6, dropping that from 25% is a 2,5k nuke</p><p>Your normal tripple up arrow has around 30k hp at high t6, dropping that from 10% is a 3k nuke</p><p>and these numbers will of cause increase when we hit high t7 so its a pretty nice nuke compared to anything the defiler arsenal has to offer.</p><p>Also the inquis spell is insta cast so no casting time and on a 45 sec timer compared to defile on 120 sec timer and 3 sec cast time, and defile is a pbaoe so there goes the raid usage.</p><p>Anyways complain about the inquisitor spell on inquisitor forums if you feel like it, if you feel its bad you should back up defilers cos ours is worse by far.</p><hr></blockquote>I know its old but i would just like to point out that Bruiser/Monks get Devistation Fist which is an instant kill  (100% Damage to Mob) on any non heroic encounter at level 35 sothe inq spell does look a bit crappy to TBH , and yes i agree defile looks pants our defiler has been crying ever since they announced it :smileywink:

[Jakoi]

 I have no idea how to get the Dev's to listen either.  This thread is up to six pages and there are a couple threads on the spells board with lots of traffic too.  Absolutely no Dev response <span>:smileymad:</span>  Then again, no response yet either on whether VOA is working as intended and that's only been what six months./sigh<div></div>

[Broomhilda]

<div></div>I know what will get the Dev's attention!  Let's start a flame war!  Lets have some of the cluelessly idiotic Defilers that love to boast and brag about our abilities come into the thread and start with that nonsense again so we can tell them to finally [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and stop getting our class nerfed!  Then once that starts it will only be a matter of a few hours before the Dev's take heed and enter the thread!  :smileytongue:

[NimSul]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Broomhilda wrote:<div></div>I know what will get the Dev's attention!  Let's start a flame war!  Lets have some of the cluelessly idiotic Defilers that love to boast and brag about our abilities come into the thread and start with that nonsense again so we can tell them to finally [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and stop getting our class nerfed!  Then once that starts it will only be a matter of a few hours before the Dev's take heed and enter the thread!  :smileytongue:<hr></blockquote><p>I think she got an idear there, just cruising the templar boards and how fast they got reactives fixed seems this is the way to go. Ok so we need some people to sign up here so all know whos who.</p><p>SOE fanboi1   _________</p><p>SOE fanboi2   _________</p><p>SOE fanboi3   _________</p><p>disgrunted whiner defiler1  ________</p><p>disgrunted whiner defiler2  ________</p><p>disgrunted whiner defiler3  ________</p><p>Now when all these are filled out someone needs to pm a mod  to come moderate the thread. Let the fixing commence.</p>

[maxa]

ROFL..... just managed to buy that spell.... not only its doing about 60 damage per 2 seconds but its not even changing its damage when mobs HP are lower as spell description states. The total damage is whole 480, less than our n00b nuke does every 3 seconds =)Developers, why is it hard to write a single post about this issue? Is this a bug or spell wrong description?ShamaxaonDefiler of XanaduRunnyeye Server<div></div>

[sostrows]

Alas poor Broom, flames will only bring a lock from a MOD who is bored 8-(I got no clue on how to get a DEV here.  I heard one guy redid all our spells for LU13.  Wish we had at least some SOE class patron.Defile sucks monkey .........<div></div>

[NimSul]

<div></div><p>Another idear is to complain about that other classes are getting fixed. Necros complained that clerics reactives was fixed so fast and boom in comes a fix to the necro in the same update.</p><p>/sigh im starting to wonder if it was a temp that made the  lu13 defiler changes, nothing ever gets fixed for us</p>

[Rebamar]

<div></div>well lets see it took them over a year just to fix our ward, which is pretty  much class defining....why would they fix anything sooner for us? There are not many defilers around, hence the lack of concern. As for the POS "marquee" skill, I would not waste a rare on that, unless they decide to upgrade it. Why spend like 5 plat on a moonstone for something that is worthless?

[Dayren]

<div>Well i am currenly a 64 defiler on my way to 70 when i hit 70 im goin to reroll into another toon and just play my defiler only when my guild needs him on raids i think this game is fun and im not goin to blow the time i spent on getting 70 so my defiler will move from main toon that i love to play to Alt that i wanna delete but cant i would like to thank you all i have been on this board for ahwhile and im tired of this c ya around</div>

[argsix]

I have been following this thread (and similar ones) since before the expansion came out.  While I know all to well that we are overlooked and the lowest priest on the proverbial totem pole: Has there been ANY word from ANY official source?  All this noise about this spell should have generated something by now, but I have not seen it!The mere fact that this is probably the only thread ever to go over 2 pages on a defiler board is testiment to the fact that there is a serious problem!*disclaimer*I play a troll, spelling and gramer errors are par for the course.<div></div>