Debuff order important?

[DresdenMalicaster]

<div>I tried to look for this information elsewhere, but appropriate search parameters were not easy for me....</div><div> </div><div>Basicly, does the order in which you cast stat debuffs affect the level of stats decreased? For example, would casting Loathsome seal before Abhorence make have an effect on the total amount of each stat debuffed or are the numbers deducted from the targets base stat (not subject to previous debuffs already in effect)?</div><div> </div><div>Thanks in advance. </div>

[Eileithia]

<div></div><p>Personally.. maybe this is just the way I think.. I would throw abhorrenc on first before any others.. reason being is it reduces "all stats" meaning that it also reduces resists.. making your chance of landing the other debuffs higher.. as to the overall effect?? I'm not sure if a % reduction would be best to cast over a fixed value reduction to give it "More effect".. Logically.. you would think you would want to lower all the % ones before lowering the fixed ones making the % debuffs actually debuff a higher value?? not sure how you could test that one other than maybe dueling..</p>

[SunT]

<div></div><p>Not sure how it works.</p><p>Safest bet is % first then raw number.</p><p>IF the % is based on the inate mob number regardless of debuffs then it will not matter.  If it is based on the currently debuffed stat number then lowering it by a fixed number first would reduce the efffectivness of the % reduction.</p><p> </p>

[ShilienOrac]

<span><blockquote><hr>Duntzzzz wrote:<div></div><p>Personally.. maybe this is just the way I think.. I would throw abhorrenc on first before any others.. reason being is it reduces "all stats" meaning that it also reduces resists..</p><hr></blockquote>As spell description says: Abhorrence reduces all of target's attributes, which includes strength, agility, stamina, wisdom and intelligence.It does not reduce resists by 32%. It does reduce resists indirectly by reducing wisdom but it's far less effective than our noxious debuff.</span><div></div>

[sostrows]

Abhorrence followed by Loathsome seal in a single macro is a nice way to start on yellow and below.On orange mobs, I generally lead with Infestation (-99 WIS) as I have found once I land this fast, 1 sec cast spell, I can land all the other debuffs.  I find Abhorrence lands better than Loathsome Seal also, probably because of the spell level difference.  If the mob resists Infestation, it's a fast recast.I avoid STA debuffs on EPIC raid mobs with %HP based aes though.<div></div>

[argsix]

I'm gonna have to disagree with most ppl in this thread.I always throw infestation first.  At master its 99points wis debuff.2 reasons for this:  Its a nice fast casting spell and 99points of wisdom = about -500 to each resist.Second I throw abhorence, at master 1, its 32% to all stats.  CLERIFICATION: Stats = str sta wis etc... NOT resists, mitigation, damage etc...Why 2nd? Because without another party member thowing resist debuffs on orange con mobs this will be resisted alot.  Having that wis already reduced helps alot.  On particularly nox resistant mobs I will even throw lothesome seal for the extra 50 wis debuff.Is that 32% affected by order? No.  Through testing I have found that it is 32% of MAX stats.  So if debuff a 300wis mob before or after you throw other wis debufs.. you will still take off 100wis (down to a max of 0, a mob can't be debuffed negative)Another thing to keep in mind:  for that 32% to be better (resist wise) the target needs to be over 300wisdom.All that said: Typical order of debuffs for me is =>Infestation, abhorence, loathsome, degenerate, sphere.This gives me the least resists on each cast.  Other orders may be better for reducing DPS of a mob quicker, but this order will give you least resists.<div></div>

[sostrows]

Abhorrence is on MAX stats for positive?  That would be a nice piece of info.<div></div>

[VizP]

<div></div>My debuff order:Abhorrence Master 1Degeneration Master 2Loathsome Seal Master 1Fulginous Coil Master 1------Infestation -  Adept 1Bane of Guarding Master 1Umbral Trap Adept 1 - (if its up)Reasoning:- All stat debuff first - master I believe is 32% no less, then Degeneration with DPS/speed reducer, then Seal which further reduces str/sta/agi - by close to 80 at master. Fulg Coil is next due to its dps reduction, Bane master has a serious ward for when it wires and last by not least Umbral trap with further damage debuff.Not the biggest issue - I have everything hot keyed to my keyboard (over 30 keys now) so issue only comes with resists (i.e Venekor Raid yesterday) where resists occur, but I 'still' circled Abhorrence/Degen/Seal first to make em stick before sticking on Coil and Trap (Guarding gets huge resists on these things anyway).While Infestation lowers resists due to wis debuff, I cant help but focus on damage output first and all 4 of those first spells reduces it either by stat reduction or DPS/atatck speed reduction.... so less damage out going first, longer ward stays up. Of course the argument can be that if resists go down faster, mob goes down faster but as far as I can see, as soon as the first four go on, the difference is more than visible after which it is plain sailing.<div></div><p>Message Edited by VizP on <span class="date_text">01-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:17 AM</span></p>

[Jazmynn]

<div></div>I am curious why only one person listed Umbral trap...

[sostrows]

I have it in my DPS Debuff Macro so I use it after Degenerate.  I can't remember last time spell was resisted and it lasts 72 sec which is real nice.<div></div>

[Broomhilda]

<div></div>I hold with those that favor debuffing Wisdom first. 

[argsix]

wis debuff > allTrying to debuff an orange epic is hard enough, don't need to waste time being resisted.<div></div>

[radical_EDWARD]

<div>you don realize that Abhorance also debuff wisdom. It's also your only sta debuff, i dont know about you, but abhorance is always my first debuff. But whatever <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[bobs147]

<div></div><p>I personally go with Degenerate and Umbral Trap if its a melee mob to get that DPS reduction in before the mob smashes through my wards (will even throw out an insta cast ward if the single and group wards drop before I can get both buffs on).  I then usually go with bane as it lasts the longest and it never seems to resist.  Finally will throw out the stat debuffs.</p><p>I dont like doing Degenerate and Abhorrence one after another because they drop at the same time and if both are down the mob DPS can suddenly go up.</p><p>Just my 2 cents</p>

[sostrows]

Another factor for me: Infestation at M1 but Abhorrence at A3 so I can stick the Infestation better.  If I had Abhorrence at M1, I might just start with that on oranges.<div></div>