Do all priests do equal damage - if not, why?

[Wiseman160]

<DIV>Long ago, when I created my defiler we did fair damage (in the middle for priests) with our DoTs and debuffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After the big combat change that stopped. My DPS was so low it made soloing exceptionally slow and boring.  Although I didn't create my defiler to solo, I want him to be able to because I simply can't find a group all the time, and don't craft or anything.  Having extremely low DPS also hinders our solo questing, etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I quit for a few months and returned, and was wondering if SOE did anything to help our DPS issue...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know that druids have useful DPS for soloing, and since they now support groups just as well as we do I don't see why we can't have equal DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Eileithia]

<div></div><p>There's a lot of debate on this topic.. but generally.. Furies, have the highest DPS out of all the priests.. they also have the lowest healing ability (Not by much maybe 2-4%.. but they do) their DPS helps the fact that they cannot heal as efficiently as a Defiler, or Templar for example, but they can kill mobs faster thus needing less healing... Warden DPS is only slightly greater than ours, and the main difference comes from their damage shield.. without that their DPS is about the same as we are..</p><p>As for why their DPS is higher.. well.. our heals / wards are more efficient, and we have better Debuffs.. we are actually very debuff heavy if you count in the standard debuffs, as well as secondary effects of our DoT's and DD's.. I agree that soloing is extrememly slow now.. but it has always been fairly slow for us to solo..</p><p>Honestly.. I will take the increase we got in our healing abilities for the slight decrease we got in DPS anytime :smileywink:</p>

[devir]

heh, furies healing is not lower than defilers at all, we're talkin straight heals here, and truely, a fury can "out heal" a defiler any day, they have more heals on different timers than we do.  I've parsed many raids seeing who does the most in the heal parses, and furies are quite up there.  Hibernation = one of the best healing spells in the game, if not the best, but saying that furies are worse healers is completely wrong, they are better. granted we have wards which make up for a huge difference, but still <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> furies can out heal us any day if they arn't doin dps.<div></div>

[CrimsonAveng]

<div><div>I quit for a few months and returned, and was wondering if SOE did anything to help our DPS issue...</div><div> </div><div><font size="3">Not really, but that's what alts are for. I solo with my warlock (the can't raid worth a flip now) and solo with my bruiser (fun as heck). You are right, defilers solo slowly, so slow I only group mine. No groups? I pull out an alt. It makes for slow leveling but on the plus side I always have vitality.</font></div></div>

[Eileithia]

<div><blockquote><hr>deviral wrote:heh, furies healing is not lower than defilers at all, we're talkin straight heals here, and truely, a fury can "out heal" a defiler any day, they have more heals on different timers than we do.  I've parsed many raids seeing who does the most in the heal parses, and furies are quite up there.  Hibernation = one of the best healing spells in the game, if not the best, but saying that furies are worse healers is completely wrong, they are better. granted we have wards which make up for a huge difference, but still <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> furies can out heal us any day if they arn't doin dps.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Raw heals (IE Increasing HP) yes.. Every class is going to be better than we are.. but you cannot discount the effectiveness of a ward.. when you can go through an entire fight with minimal power and never have the tanks HP drop below 100% i'd say it speaks for it's self..</div><div> </div><div>I'd love to see those parses with the warded values counted as heals.. you'd be amazed where we sit in the healing tree after that :smileywink:</div><div> </div><div>Solo ward, Group Ward, Spiritual Circle.. heck.. in some fights.. just Spiritual circle as the mob never hits the tank for more than 600ish HP (poets comes to mind)</div><div> </div>

[Owlbe]

<div></div><div></div><p> The Defiler was the first character I created when I joined EQ2.  I love the look, the spell set, the lore, everything about being a defiler BUT I could not stand the DPS of the class and consequently I had to quit the class (got to lvl 2<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  It was just to painful to solo.  I suffer from the casual player syndrome where I can't commit large blocks of time.  I re-rolled a fury and I've never looked back (lvl 48 now).  I can drop my dd and my aoe dd  (usually pull with this as it has a looong cast time that gets interupted all to often and a long recast timer) on a mob for 2k-ish damage, throw on my 2 dots, and my weapon procs spells if I'm feeling sassy + any HO damage.    The difference between fury and defiler damage is staggering at least the lvls that I saw.  I can take down multiple low lvl mobs quite quickly and singles mobs fairly fast (a yellow mob will be near 1/2 dead before it closes to close combat).  Its not that defilers can't solo its the speed.</p><p> My fury does'nt have near the debuffs that a defiler has though and the few that he does allow others to hit it mobs easier (goes along with the offensive theme) but it does'nt allow me to slow the damage coming in which the shamans seem to excel at and the one major thing I missed most about the class.  Just anyone starting the class should be forwarned and if they like being defensive and relish in that aspect of the game then they will be happy.</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Omegarhino on <span class="date_text">01-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:23 PM</span></p>

[Nev]

I have a 34 Def/ 40 Tailor and I love playing him. I can always get a group, and when I need to solo, thats not a problem either. I completed all of the solo tests in the shiny brass shield HQ, when another paladin 2 levels higher than me had to try it 2x more.It all comes down to knowing the character abilities and responding to teh mobs appropriately.

[radical_EDWARD]

<div><blockquote><hr>Duntzzzz wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>deviral wrote:heh, furies healing is not lower than defilers at all, we're talkin straight heals here, and truely, a fury can "out heal" a defiler any day, they have more heals on different timers than we do.  I've parsed many raids seeing who does the most in the heal parses, and furies are quite up there.  Hibernation = one of the best healing spells in the game, if not the best, but saying that furies are worse healers is completely wrong, they are better. granted we have wards which make up for a huge difference, but still <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> furies can out heal us any day if they arn't doin dps.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Raw heals (IE Increasing HP) yes.. Every class is going to be better than we are.. but you cannot discount the effectiveness of a ward.. when you can go through an entire fight with minimal power and never have the tanks HP drop below 100% i'd say it speaks for it's self..</div><div> </div><div>I'd love to see those parses with the warded values counted as heals.. you'd be amazed where we sit in the healing tree after that :smileywink:</div><div> </div><div>Solo ward, Group Ward, Spiritual Circle.. heck.. in some fights.. just Spiritual circle as the mob never hits the tank for more than 600ish HP (poets comes to mind)</div><div> </div><hr></blockquote>do you even know how many heals a fury have? raw healing power, (COUNTING WARD) we cant touch furies, in fact the fury in my guild is the highest parse healer in every raid. As far as dps goes, fury can do 500+ against single target mob and 1k+ against aoe mob, i be lucky to break 200 on single target lol</div>

[Ixnay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>radical_EDWARD wrote:<div>do you even know how many heals a fury have? raw healing power, (COUNTING WARD) we cant touch furies, in fact the fury in my guild is the highest parse healer in every raid. As far as dps goes, fury can do 500+ against single target mob and 1k+ against aoe mob, i be lucky to break 200 on single target lol</div><hr></blockquote><p> </p><p>He is correct, I'm also frequently amazed to see Fury's parse in the top six DPS for a raid encounter at the same time they are healing as described above.</p><p>It doesn't seem equal between healing classes at all.</p>

[devir]

come on radical edward, you can do more than 200 on a single target mob, add up those masters 1's. dot, nuke, dot nuke, dot nuke dot nuke, i betcha you can get over 300, backup int gear ftw.<div></div>

[Docimodo]

<div></div><div>It all depends. On raids we are taking on courts of al afaz or gates of ahket akan with 2 groups and only 4-5 healers at most. The fact that if u cast forced cannibalise at master1 all the time is the equivalent of having an item with flowing thought sixty roughly means no other healer can keep up with me on heals or damage or debuffs or anything. they may be able to spam out more in a short period as most get another kind of heal as their ancient teachings but thats it, on a long fight they cant afford either a) the cast time of non critical stuff or b) the mana.</div><div> </div><div>and so i spam out wards /debuffs and some dmg(for the resist debuffs, have lots noxious friends!) so that i can make my power regen a useful thing. Instead of going 'yeah it wasnt my fault we lost as im not oop'</div><div>yeah thats good isnt it. wise up. u should be spamming even harder so that the others dont run out of power because for them getting it back is hard. ugh im going off on a tangent here but the point i was getting to was that on the parses im the only priest with tonnes of dmg the rest just cant compete. (anyways i guess its a situational thing and either way i dont care who thinks who is better, its all pretty balanced imo)</div><div> </div>

[radical_EDWARD]

<div><blockquote><hr>deviral wrote:come on radical edward, you can do more than 200 on a single target mob, add up those masters 1's. dot, nuke, dot nuke, dot nuke dot nuke, i betcha you can get over 300, backup int gear ftw.<div></div><hr></blockquote>lol i have horrible int, unless im in a grp with somekind of int buff, my int stays under 100 lol, and yeah i have all master nuke and dots. And quite honestly i dont really want to do any dps, ill toss a dot and nuke in for nox debuff, but other than that, i rather do slows and heal.</div>

[radical_EDWARD]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Docimodo wrote:<div></div><div>It all depends. On raids we are taking on courts of al afaz or gates of ahket akan with 2 groups and only 4-5 healers at most. The fact that if u cast forced cannibalise at master1 all the time is the equivalent of having an item with flowing thought sixty roughly means no other healer can keep up with me on heals or damage or debuffs or anything. they may be able to spam out more in a short period as most get another kind of heal as their ancient teachings but thats it, on a long fight they cant afford either a) the cast time of non critical stuff or b) the mana.</div><div> </div><div>and so i spam out wards /debuffs and some dmg(for the resist debuffs, have lots noxious friends!) so that i can make my power regen a useful thing. Instead of going 'yeah it wasnt my fault we lost as im not oop'</div><div>yeah thats good isnt it. wise up. u should be spamming even harder so that the others dont run out of power because for them getting it back is hard. ugh im going off on a tangent here but the point i was getting to was that on the parses im the only priest with tonnes of dmg the rest just cant compete. (anyways i guess its a situational thing and either way i dont care who thinks who is better, its all pretty balanced imo)</div><div> </div><hr></blockquote>your regen might effect your healing power in the long run, but u cant say that just because you have better regen you are a better healer. The fury in my guild have 9 regen items, add potion, manastone, shards/heart, his power stays up pretty well, now add 7 1-1.5sec heals to that 7k powerpool of his and you have a healing machine. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><p>Message Edited by radical_EDWARD on <span class="date_text">01-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:42 AM</span></p>

[VizP]

So they out heal and they can out dps... is this a call for a fury nerf that you are asking for? Because this game is about balance - if they out heal us, they can out damage us AND they have utility (see group invis), may I ask just where the balance is?<div></div>

[sostrows]

at lvl 50+, i've had numerous DPS contests with Furies and win some and lose some, with spell level and gear probably making the difference.  maelstrom of dismay makes a big change at lvl 50.  prob the worst DPS time period for a Defiler is per-aphotic levels.  at 50+ soloing for quests works out great now that Chameleon totems work at higher levels.  Hoping for a self-invis in 61-70 8-)<div></div>

[Docimodo]

<div>assuming its all optimal maybe they can out 'heal' us but i doubt any fight is optimal. wards are just too efficient. nothing i cast is ever wasted.</div><div> </div><div>direct heals will more often than not 'overheal' especially hots and especially in a raid situation.</div><div> </div><div>wards just stack up and get used its as simple as that.</div><div> </div><div>spititual circle is about the best 'heal' to power to cast time ratio in the game especially in a raid situation where all of the short wards are definitely used.</div><div> </div><div>thats how we compete. they may have all those heals but all things being equal in terms of gear pots etc we are just too efficient. not to mention being able to have the tank with approaching 20k hp on the pull (first time i felt the need to do that we wiped because all the healers thought the mob wasnt doing any damage hehe and the ranger i smacked to the ground just wasnt expecting it either. oh how people underestimate things)</div><div> </div><div>Yes we lack the ability to replenish lost hp well but only in a big raid situation does someone actually lose any hp at all. i leave it up to other healers to replenish it thats what they are good at. i stick to wards and debuffs and in that regard no one is our match. im  sure each class has a specialty the excell in in terms of healing and to complain about their specialty being uber whilst ignoring ours is just lame</div>

[radical_EDWARD]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Docimodo wrote:<div>assuming its all optimal maybe they can out 'heal' us but i doubt any fight is optimal. wards are just too efficient. nothing i cast is ever wasted.</div><div> </div><div>direct heals will more often than not 'overheal' especially hots and especially in a raid situation.</div><div> </div><div>wards just stack up and get used its as simple as that.</div><div> </div><div>spititual circle is about the best 'heal' to power to cast time ratio in the game especially in a raid situation where all of the short wards are definitely used.</div><div> </div><div>thats how we compete. they may have all those heals but all things being equal in terms of gear pots etc we are just too efficient. not to mention being able to have the tank with approaching 20k hp on the pull (first time i felt the need to do that we wiped because all the healers thought the mob wasnt doing any damage hehe and the ranger i smacked to the ground just wasnt expecting it either. oh how people underestimate things)</div><div> </div><div>Yes we lack the ability to replenish lost hp well but only in a big raid situation does someone actually lose any hp at all. i leave it up to other healers to replenish it thats what they are good at. i stick to wards and debuffs and in that regard no one is our match. im  sure each class has a specialty the excell in in terms of healing and to complain about their specialty being uber whilst ignoring ours is just lame</div><hr></blockquote>i'm sorry but the ability to replenish HP well is EXACTLY what u should judge one ability to heal on. May be on [Removed for Content] mobs like terrorantula u dont have to spam heal, but when u go up against the big boy like Barakah in PoF, Lathena/Jura'nata, Pedestal of the sky, Djinn Master. u need lots of heals in the least amound of time, thats when u know who can really heal. I'm not saying that fury are god, they dont have the buff and debuff that we have, but to say that we can match them in healing (or dps) is just ignorant.<p><span class="time_text">btw: single ward between shaman doesnt stacks, dropping it efficiency drastically in a raid, specially with 2 or more shaman in the raid. </span></p><p>Message Edited by radical_EDWARD on <span class="date_text">01-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:39 AM</span></p>

[Docimodo]

<div></div><p>well i dont know how they would fix us then. i know about singles not stacking but its rare that ward stays up that long so is negligable.</p><p>if they gave us more heals theyd have to compensate and chop our wards which are imo far more useful and then we all become generic healers yay for diversity.</p><p>what do u suggest they do to bring balance whilst maintaing diversity? we are warders primarily and u cant ignore how much we can ward for and how efficient they are.</p><p>we have a ~2.5k group ward ~1.4k ward ~1k heal ~1.7k heal ~1k group heal. what is it 8 odd k group ward pet?</p><p>ill take a look tonight at how much we can heal and ward and for how much power cost over a duration of 1.5 minutes (recast of the pet) if we can get a fury or whatever to do the same we can then see the numbers (ie hps saved per minute or whatever) and discuss further.</p><p> i should guess theyll have a higher amount over same duration but then wed need to look at a realistic case where replenishing hp is limited by tank being full health and see how much inefficiency they have to get in order to save exactly the same amount of hp (we will have to scale our direct heals also since we a likely to be a little inefficient there also)</p><p>What id hope is that it works out roughly even if say 60-70% of direct heals land with perfect efficiency. because i know they dont. we could also factor in player skill with cancelling casts due to tank at full power. i know its easier for us to do that too with the longer casts so can factor that in too! so many numbers ugh  </p>

[sostrows]

if we have 2 shaman on a raid, we basically spam our single target wards together.  bosses hit for so much, its rare that they cancel each other out.  just my expericence.<div></div>

[VizP]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>I think the important point to simply remember is this. Defilers are good healers and we do our job well. But I am 'tired' of hearing out much better than us furies are in so many things - if that is the case then simply defilers and furies are imbalanced and furies need nerfing. There is nothing else to it unless someone can explain to me how defilers and furies are balanced.Funny - the longer and louder people shout about fury uberness, the faster this balancing will occur. So the, are furies better than us? Yes? Scream it from the rooftops baby, lets see what happens.<div></div><p>Simply Radical - you say it is ignorant to say defilers are close to furies in dps/healing. But we can buff and debuff better right? (who knows, furies can buff up their wis too increasing theur power pool by a huge amount amoungst other things - i guess that leaves us as great debuffers)? And if so does that balance it out against everything else? No? Then we have a serious problem.</p><p>===> hence the new 'Importance of nerfing furies' thread where I hope you will shed more light on their powers and how they can be neatly lowered in future patches to match ours.</p><p>Message Edited by VizP on <span class="date_text">01-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:23 PM</span></p>

[radical_EDWARD]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>VizP wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div>I think the important point to simply remember is this. Defilers are good healers and we do our job well. But I am 'tired' of hearing out much better than us furies are in so many things - if that is the case then simply defilers and furies are imbalanced and furies need nerfing. There is nothing else to it unless someone can explain to me how defilers and furies are balanced.Funny - the longer and louder people shout about fury uberness, the faster this balancing will occur. So the, are furies better than us? Yes? Scream it from the rooftops baby, lets see what happens.<div></div><p>Simply Radical - you say it is ignorant to say defilers are close to furies in dps/healing. But we can buff and debuff better right? (who knows, furies can buff up their wis too increasing theur power pool by a huge amount amoungst other things - i guess that leaves us as great debuffers)? And if so does that balance it out against everything else? No? Then we have a serious problem.</p><p>===> hence the new 'Importance of nerfing furies' thread where I hope you will shed more light on their powers and how they can be neatly lowered in future patches to match ours.</p><p>Message Edited by VizP on <span class="date_text">01-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:23 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>furies buff, int, wis, and max power, nothing really desireable for a tank. they have no single target hp like we do. That would make us more important in a MT grp , hences = better buffers <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> you are missing my point here, im not saying that furies are over power, they are a different type of healer, i dont think that they are any more important than us in a raid, im just saying that their healing and dps are superior to us, and that is a fact, but we brings more to the table than just healing and dps, every priest have a different role in a raid, thats just how it is, doesnt make one better than any other.</div><p>Message Edited by radical_EDWARD on <span class="date_text">01-08-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:35 AM</span></p>

[VizP]

But the way you hear people talk, you would think they are. Only yesterday this very topic came up on 50-59 chat room.. what do people think is the best healer.In a heartbeat - 'fury'. Just like that.... such overwhelming quick response... in a game of balance, surely the response doesnt come that fast? I dont get that with tanks or dps, one class suddenlt being suggested as the no.1 dps or the no.1 tank, usually there is some argument.But when it comes to priests, we have one name resounding above all else, can't deny it! This is likely due to huge and ignorant misconception (likely) or need for a super nerf (unlikely). One way or another though I think people will learn <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Broomhilda]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>radical_EDWARD wrote:<div></div><div><blockquote>... im not saying that furies are over power, they are a different type of healer, i dont think that they are any more important than us in a raid, im just saying that their healing and dps are superior to us, and that is a fact, but we brings more to the table than just healing and dps, every priest have a different role in a raid, thats just how it is, doesnt make one better than any other.</blockquote></div><hr></blockquote><p>OMG I actually agree with Radical ED!!!!!  :smileyvery-happy:</p><p>Good point Emanji!</p>