BUG(?) Fulginous Coils Attack Speed Debuff set too low

[iciss19]

<DIV>I just upgraded Ful Coil to Adept 1 on my defiler.  As you can see below, this makes it do more damage than the lower level Master 2 it is upgrading, however it lessens the attack speed debuff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Since the damage is greater on the higher level spell, I am lead to believe it was intended to be a better spell all around, and hence the attack speed debuff should be increased for Fulginous Coil.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Fulginous Sphere (lvl 23) - Master 2</STRONG>:</DIV> <UL> <LI>65-79 dmg per tick</LI> <LI>debuff attack speed by 10.1%</LI></UL> <P><STRONG>Fulginous Coil (lvl 37) - Adept 1</STRONG>:</P> <UL> <LI>81-99 dmg per tick</LI> <LI>debuff attack speed by 8.2%</LI></UL><p>Message Edited by iciss1969 on <span class=date_text>12-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:41 AM</span>

[Nuhus]

<span><blockquote><hr>iciss1969 wrote:<div></div> <div>I just upgraded Ful Coil to Adept 1 on my defiler.  As you can see below, this makes it do more damage than the lower level Master 2 it is upgrading, however it lessens the attack speed debuff.</div> <div> </div> <div>Since the damage is greater on the higher level spell, I am lead to believe it was intended to be a better spell all around, and hence the attack speed debuff should be increased for Fulginous Coil.</div> <div> </div> <div><strong>Fulginous Sphere (lvl 23) - Master 2</strong>:</div> <ul> <li>65-79 dmg per tick</li> <li>debuff attack speed by 10.1%</li></ul> <p><strong>Fulginous Coil (lvl 37) - Adept 1</strong>:</p> <ul> <li>81-99 dmg per tick</li> <li>debuff attack speed by 8.2%</li></ul><p>Message Edited by iciss1969 on <span class="date_text">12-24-2005</span> <span class="time_text">08:41 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I see what you are saying, but it is comparing a Master 2 to and Adept 1, even though several levels in difference... The adept 3 of Fuliginious Coil is just about along those lines:  <img src="http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/2100/untitled1hr.jpg"> The damage is much better with the adept III, also the attack speed decrease is improved, and the master 1 would likely be just <i>about</i> up to par with the speed decrease of the Master 2 of the previous version. That's one thing I must admit in some cases make it difficult to decide whether to use you're old spell or a new spell, but I'd recommend upgrading Fuliginious Coil if you want to see results more along those lines. I think in that case, attack speed never changes, so it's not something I'd expect to rise much with level. <img src="http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/1921/untitled2tx.jpg"> Actually, just comparing the spells of the same quality, it does go up slightly comparing the old to the new.. Quality of the spell makes a bit of a difference. Just IMO, good luck. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div>

[iciss19]

<DIV>Thanks for the reply.  Sorry if my first post wasn't clear, I understand that upgrading spells makes a difference.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My point is that I don't see why they would purposefully make one component of a spell better and one component worse when comparing two spells in the same line, regardless of level or upgraded status.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To genericize, it is like saying:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Spell #1:  Master 1 (low level spell)</DIV> <DIV>- component a = 90</DIV> <DIV>- component b =  95</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Spell #2: Adept 3 (low level spell)</DIV> <DIV>- component a = 87</DIV> <DIV>- component b = 87</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Spell #3:  Adept 1 (high level spell)</DIV> <DIV>- component a = 95</DIV> <DIV>- component b = 90</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Spell #4:  Master 1 (high level spell)</DIV> <DIV>- component a = 100</DIV> <DIV>- component b = 100</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So yes, Spell #3 is better than Spell #2 as would be expected, and Spell #4 is better than all.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What is unexpected is that Spell #3 is better in some ways and worse in some ways than Spell #1.  IMO this should never be, the normalized values should be progressing at the same rate.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just don't see why they would make a conscious decision to say that "the damage progression on this spell will be (Sphere Ad3 -> Sphere M2 -> Coil Ad1 -> Coil M1) BUT we are going to flip that around to (Sphere Ad3 -> Coil Ad1 -> Sphere M2 -> Coil M1) for the debuff component".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It just seems more likely to me that this is something they haven't looked closely at and that is unintended.</DIV><p>Message Edited by iciss1969 on <span class=date_text>12-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:00 AM</span>

[Lyasa]

<P>also noticed w/ degeneration master 2 vs. atrophy adept 1</P> <P>master 2 is 20% slow 12% dps debuff, adept 1 atrophy is 18% slow, 10% dps debuff( i think) </P> <P>though did look at master of atrophy on broker, was 22% and 14%</P>

[Itzon-Hu]

<DIV>As was stated, you have to look at like quality's of the spell.  Ie Adept III.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At every quality of the spell, both components increase between the levels of the spells.</DIV> <DIV>All Spells at master 1 and with 91 int ( same int you had in your inspects or close enough ) at lvl 54</DIV> <DIV>Lvl 23: 63   -   77 / 4 secs. Decrease attack speed   9.8%</DIV> <DIV>Lvl 37: 108 - 132 / 4 secs. Decrease attack speed 11.0%</DIV> <DIV>Lvl 51: 162 - 198 / 4 secs. Decrease attack speed 12.1%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As you see it goes up each time for both parts.. Damage by 41%, then 33%, and it looks like attack speed is lowered by 1.1# % since it is 1.2, and 1.1% each step.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now to answer why an adept or apprentice spell for that mater doesn't inprove over a higher quality earlier spell in both parts.</DIV> <DIV>Fulginous Sphere</DIV> <DIV>Master 2   65   -   79 / 4 secs. Decrease attack speed 10.1%</DIV> <DIV>Master 1   63   -   77 / 4 secs. Decrease attack speed   9.8%</DIV> <DIV>Adept 1     47   -   58 / 4 secs. Decrease attack speed   7.4%</DIV> <DIV>App 4        41   -   51 / 4 secs. Decrease attack speed   6.5%</DIV> <DIV>App 2        38   -   46 / 4 secs. Decrease attack speed   5.8%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fulginous Coil</DIV> <DIV>Master 1   108 - 132 / 4 secs. Decrease attack speed 11.0%</DIV> <DIV>Adept 1     81   -   99 / 4 secs. Decrease attack speed   8.2%</DIV> <DIV>App4         71   -   87 / 4 secs. Decrease attack speed   7.2%</DIV> <DIV>App2         64   -   79 / 4 secs. Decrease attack speed   6.5%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lets forget that there was a master 2 of the earlier spell.  In that case even the App 2 version of the upgrade spell does more damage than the Master version of the earlier spell.  This is as it should be..  Mobs 14 lvls higher need to be hit with more damage.  However if you allowed for this drop in quality, you would be loosing the debuff by 3.3 %  as it is it is nice that the debuff actualy gets better with each upgrade rather than stay static and only the damage increasing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now if it worked the way you want it to, then starting with Fulginous Coil App. 2 the debuff would have to be 9.9% to make it better, App 4: 10 .5%, Adept 1: 11.5%, master 1: 14.3%  ant this would start over onte lvl 51 spells ending up with the master having 20.1% slow.  That would be over powering.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>