AAs for raiding

[illaria]

<div></div>I am about to begin raiding on my mystic (she needs a few levels yet to raid T7 with the guild)Do any raiding mystics have any suggestions for the best AA lines to chose to be an effective raider?Thanks<div></div>

[thedu]

After much discussion most agree that going into the STR and INT lines give the most benefit for raiding.STR: 4-4-4-8-1INT: 4-4-4-8-1In each line there are two added dps abilities leg bleed and rabies.  Leg bleed is single target and you need to equip a spear in order to use it; Rabies is an AOE spell (you will pull aggro if enough mobs are nearby use with caution) and you need to equip a staff.  What I have done is have a hot bar with: leg bleed, rabies, <primary weapon equiped>, <bag location where weapon goes when replaced>, <bag location of spear>, <bag location of staff>I switch between the weapons to use the abilities.  The reason for this is that your dog either needs to hit or be hit during a raid to proc other abilities, i.e. aura of warding (additional ward to all group members) and an AoE ward.If used at the right time the dog doesn't die often and things can work out well.If you go this route I would suggest not using Aura of Warding during regular group play. The ward stays on much longer the encounters and often draws aggro because you can't drop the tanks additional ward.<div></div>

[illaria]

Thanks for the advice, I have already gone down the strength line and I will do the int line as wellhow do you quickly equip and and unequip the weapons you need?<div></div>

[exxxie]

Consider maxxing aura of haste and not aura of warding as the haste cap got raised.<div></div>

[Centri]

<div></div>I went a slightly different way, I got the normal Str line and them I went sta 4-4-6-8 for those lightning fast cures, has worked great for me and my guild MT likes it too <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Oh in sta line you also get the ability to slow down spell casts on your target, awesome to slow that nasty AoE<div></div><p>Message Edited by Centrine on <span class=date_text>12-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:53 AM</span>

[thedu]

<div><blockquote><hr>illaria wrote:Thanks for the advice, I have already gone down the strength line and I will do the int line as wellhow do you quickly equip and and unequip the weapons you need?<div></div><hr></blockquote>Click the hot bar button holding the weapon you want to equip. It gets moved to the weapon slot and your current weapon gets moved to an open bag slot -- this is something you should do ahead of time so that the weapon you want to go back as your primary is in your hot bar and click on that to replace once you have clicked to start the ability.It's as fast you can click or punch your keys.  Sometimes due to lag it takes more clicks then usual to get them swapped around.</div>

[AziBam]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thedump wrote:<BR>After much discussion most agree that going into the STR and INT lines give the most benefit for raiding.<BR><BR>STR: 4-4-4-8-1<BR>INT: 4-4-4-8-1<BR><BR>In each line there are two added dps abilities leg bleed and rabies.  Leg bleed is single target and you need to equip a spear in order to use it; Rabies is an AOE spell (you will pull aggro if enough mobs are nearby use with caution) and you need to equip a staff.  What I have done is have a hot bar with: leg bleed, rabies, <primary weapon equiped>, <bag location where weapon goes when replaced>, <bag location of spear>, <bag location of staff><BR><BR>I switch between the weapons to use the abilities.  The reason for this is that your dog either needs to hit or be hit during a raid to proc other abilities, i.e. aura of warding (additional ward to all group members) and an AoE ward.<BR><BR>If used at the right time the dog doesn't die often and things can work out well.<BR><BR>If you go this route I would suggest not using Aura of Warding during regular group play. The ward stays on much longer the encounters and often draws aggro because you can't drop the tanks additional ward.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hrm, since the final ability costs 8 not 1 your totals are more than what can be possible.  Including the dog that would cost 57 points.  Thinking you maybe meant STR 4-4-4-8-1  and  INT: 4-4-4-8 with one point placed somewhere else?

[thedu]

<div><blockquote><hr>Dkel wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> thedump wrote:After much discussion most agree that going into the STR and INT lines give the most benefit for raiding.STR: 4-4-4-8-1INT: 4-4-4-8-1In each line there are two added dps abilities leg bleed and rabies.  Leg bleed is single target and you need to equip a spear in order to use it; Rabies is an AOE spell (you will pull aggro if enough mobs are nearby use with caution) and you need to equip a staff.  What I have done is have a hot bar with: leg bleed, rabies, <primary weapon equiped>, <bag location where weapon goes when replaced>, <bag location of spear>, <bag location of staff>I switch between the weapons to use the abilities.  The reason for this is that your dog either needs to hit or be hit during a raid to proc other abilities, i.e. aura of warding (additional ward to all group members) and an AoE ward.If used at the right time the dog doesn't die often and things can work out well.If you go this route I would suggest not using Aura of Warding during regular group play. The ward stays on much longer the encounters and often draws aggro because you can't drop the tanks additional ward. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>Hrm, since the final ability costs 8 not 1 your totals are more than what can be possible.  Including the dog that would cost 57 points.  Thinking you maybe meant STR 4-4-4-8-1  and  INT: 4-4-4-8 with one point placed somewhere else?<hr></blockquote>Yup your right. Also, just realized I'm going to have to waste a respec...</div>

[Thatdumbg]

The above posts have some good points, here are another couple of things to keep in mind:a) Talk to the other shaman you will be raiding with, having coverage on both intelligence line for virulence and stamina line for infective bites is desired.b) If you are going to be in the MT group, you need to look at taking strength to the end, maxing aura of warding... then taking stamina to the cure AA, with 8 points in infective bites and 5 in cures. The fast curing is an invaluable tool in my opinion.<div></div>

[Banditman]

I still think INT is a better option for Immunities 8.<div></div>

[Eepop]

It takes some training, but you can usually set it up for a non MT group person to cure.  There may be a little over curing, but non MT healers usually have a bit more free time. <div></div>

[ecoskii]

<P>I'm in MT permanently for a raid guild and have used Immunities 8 throughout... wondering about changing it now though due the the 'diminishing returns' curve on resists.  Except for new mobs we know the AE we are going to get hit by so can use gear in the MT grp to get away up the curve so my additional 800 makes little difference.  I'm tempted to put less (or none) into Immunities, max Virulence as it is now a pretty good debuff then use the balance to get +20 or 30% direct heals (I know i use them rarely but would help supporting the OT grp and aggro stealers)</P> <P>Anyone else changed?</P> <P> </P> <P>Ecoskii - 70 Mystic</P> <P>Unity - Splitpaw</P>

[Banditman]

To me, the attraction of Immunities has always been to afford you the opportunity to use less resist gear.If I were to get away from Immunities I'd probably go down toward the increase enemy cast / recast timer thing.  Lots of classes debuff stats, but few debuff cast / recast times.<div></div>

[Moonspinn]

I'm usually in the assist group, often healing by myself in there. I ended up with STR 4-4-4-4-1 INT 4-4-4-8 and spent the remaining 5 points in the wisdom line to get the first tier of ritual. Since I use group heal alot for AoE damage I figured the one point in ritual was worth it.

[Thatdumbg]

    In EoF, I haven't had to use resist gear yet, and my guild has killed most of what has been up to this point, so I've seen a good amount of the encounters. Come to think of it, I really didn't in KoS, either, other then early in the tier on Harla and the like, although I understand that it might have its uses for some raids/guilds.As far as having somebody else cure, I don't buy it, it just seems lossy as hell on power/efficiency. Of course, having a mystic spam Ancient Balm when its up when they are out of the MT group can be nice in certain fights... and you do have some fights in the game where it is best to have one or two priests do nothing but spam a certain (encounter-dependent) cure.A MT Shaman who is up to snuff on his cures means you can on some fights bypass that aspect (cure spamming), freeing up a priest to be used elsewhere. Anyhow, obviously different strokes for different folks, and different raids... but its worked well for me and is the standard for a MT-group shaman in my guild.<div></div>

[Tothemoon]

<P>Question here about the AGI line in the Shaman tree - Our healing officer strongly suggested that all healers take this line for the max crit heal .. so I did (after STR) but we can never gather any evidence that it's really working for me since my warding far outways my healing. I never crit for very much yet can still top the heal parse. </P> <P>Anyone with knowledge on whether this crit heal AA is completely useless for shamans or if it's actually effective for our wards?? <boggled></P> <P>Thanks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Thatdumbg]

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, it's been awhile since I've tested anything to confirm nothing has changed, and hell, I could have some numbers scrambled in my head anyways...Wards crit for +15% (static). IIRC, normal heals go for 0-30%.Assuming the average on standard heals (15%), you will heal for 15 percent more 16 percent of the time... this results in a net gain of 2.4% more healing with Ancestral Spirits maxed.Just a thought, and I' hate to say it but I have to enter the realm of "situational" here.... but I'd like to illustrate something.A maxed Infective Bites grants a 16 percent reduction to the target's cast and recast timers. Given a fight with a 40second AE (just picking a popular number in EoF), the Mob will instead AE ever 46.4 seconds... on a 1-minute AE, this increases to 69.6 seconds. Anyhow, in the end, 7AE's without infective turns into 6AE's with it, or roundabouts. Anyhow, call the average AE  3000 damage (of course, this is a generalization and probably on the low end for alot of fights to be honest... but I set this for demonstration purposes). So, on a five-minute fight, with a 40 second AE, you just saved the raid 3000 damage a person (that would take the AE). If its a shorter-range AE, and/or you are jousting, it's not a huge deal. If its unavoidable... thats 72000 damage you just prevented, which equates to an additional 14,400 damage per minute.... and thats a lot. Hell, lets say only 5 people get hit by the AE... 15000 damage, which is 3000 damage per minute prevented. And I didn't even get into how much damage is saved on the tank because of a mob's single target abilities not being recast as often...I guess what I'm trying to say, is that crit heals still won't even increase your healing more then that. Of course there are a ton of holes and situations in my example where it could or couldn't apply... but virtually every raid boss in the game has some type of AE, and has the potential to rock some people's worlds with it. I don't see a heal crit increase to be worth giving that up  for. NOW... if you already have another shaman in the raid with infective bites, heal crits MIGHT be a viable option to Virulence (which reduces a mobs attributes by 16 percent). Honestly, that kind of debuff is VERY hard to properly test... it would be beyond the realm of situational and into the realm of pure speculation.Of course, some people argue that the pet is fragile, and it dies all the time, and blah blah blah... but seriously, mine rarely does, I keep a tight rein on its positioning in relation to the mob(s), and will commonly back it off/reposition it as needed to avoid ripostes. One caveat there is damage shields on bosses, but to be honest, the constant group healing going on in those situations is usually enough to keep the pet up (other then on say, Corsolander, which is old-tier at this point).<div></div>

[Banditman]

I wouldn't listen to any "healing officer" who has never raided a Mystic.Heal crits are ok, but honestly, unless you have experience with the class in question you shouldn't be giving them advice on what AA's to take.  I wouldn't dream of trying to give a Cleric or Druid AA advice. I just have no effing clue.I'll be happy to listen to someone and help them work it out.<div></div>

[Eepop]

Overall heal crits just arent very impressive...more than anything they just lead to over healing. Don't get me wrong, I am taking heal crits, but only because I wanted to take agility down to 100% melee crits anyway, and heal crits are next in line.  If I didnt want to try out the melee stuff, I would have no bad feelings about not even thinking about heal crits. Being a healer is about making situations that are somewhat predictable, pushing a random element doesnt really help that a whole lot. <div></div>

[Tothemoon]

Thank you so very much for the input!! Good food for thought :smileysurprised:

[SonnyA]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Banditman wrote:<BR>I wouldn't listen to any "healing officer" who has never raided a Mystic.<BR><BR>Heal crits are ok, but honestly, unless you have experience with the class in question you shouldn't be giving them advice on what AA's to take.  I wouldn't dream of trying to give a Cleric or Druid AA advice. I just have no effing clue.<BR><BR>I'll be happy to listen to someone and help them work it out.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I agree.. Go INT+STR as has been suggested and if he insists on better healage, use the Tunare deity abilities. The +15% heal is decent for 10 minutes and not too expensive.

[Banditman]

I honestly have NO problem at all taking over the heal parse if I want to.  I have zero heal crit AA's.<div></div>

[illaria]

Thanks for all the great advice.One question, I was looking at the second skill on the wisdom line (20% boost for next healing spell(s)). Eventhough I dont want to go all the way down this line, do you think this is a good skill to take?<div></div>

[Thatdumbg]

Ritual can be a very valuable skill in situations where you are the solo healer in a group and are confronted with large amounts of group damage to heal (multiple AE's, etc). If you do use it, I would macro your group heal and or/strong heal to look something like this:/usea Ritual/usea TranscendenceThis way, whenever ritual is available, it will be used... and if it's not, your heal will still cast as normal. Can't remember the first person to post that idea, but it's absolutely golden.Very commonly the second mystic in my raid is in our hybrid group, and often times he is the lone healer; he's expressed some interest in respeccing into it at times given the content in EoF we are currently facing.<div></div>

[Banditman]

Ritual is a very attractive option for that boost to a group heal, but I just can't bring myself to give up Immunities for it.I think - and I could probably work out the math - that Aura of Warding 8 + Immunities 8 is a greater benefit in overall damage taken.<div></div>

[thedu]

So scourge isn't worth the sacrifice of the pet?<div></div>

[Banditman]

?<div></div>

[thedu]

Well if you put 8 into 'Aura of Warding' and 8 into 'Immunities' and 8 into 'Spiritual forsight' then there is only 1 point left and so you can't get the last ability in the INT line Scourge.  So I was wondering that ability wasn't worth the loss of the pet in raid situation?<div></div>

[Banditman]

I've never had the end of INT line . . . I had a little into Wis at one point but didn't really feel that good about it.I'm running full STR line with 8 in Aura and INT line to Immunities 8.  I can't remember where I put that last point.  Haste or Virulence prolly.I guess I never really understood why I'd want to have both Spiritual Foresight and Scourge.  Do I want my pet alive or do I want him to blow up?  If you are using Scourge, you probably don't need the STR line at all.  Just take INT and something else since your pet will become little more than a homing missile.<div></div>

[Vulking]

<P>Based on raiding in EoF (lower need for resists, higher need for rezs and cures), and just some general frustations with dogdog, I have finally pulled the trigger as it were.  In the shaman tree I finally ditched the dog, the 40-80dps she provided wasnt worth it. So now instead of the Str and Int lines that worked great for KoS,  I respecc'ed to the Wis and Sta lines.</P> <P>I have also changed my pespective on how crappy the rez and cure lines are.  I think and this is my theory on this; but I believe it was intentional on the Devs part to get us to go down theses paths for a reason.  I, as alot of others believed and continue to believe, that these are poor substitutes for good AAs, which may be true if you are not a raider, but if you are, well let me just say, my eyes have been opened.</P>

[Eepop]

Did they fix the issue with the cure wards blocking other healers' cures? <div></div>

[Vulking]

DOH!

[Greggthegrmreapr]

I have decided to hang on to faithful Lordrahl.  I intend to keep my STR line the way it is, and completely drop my INT line in favor of AGI for the 100% melee crits.  Get ahold of a Blackscale maul, or one of those fabled hammers from the drakota in ToS and thats some nice DPS.

[Triyton]

<P>I have not been having any problems with blocked cures for a long time.  I seemed to have it once when the issue first came up but nothing since.</P> <P>Hammarus, you say you like the rez line now for raiding but you don't say why.  </P> <P>Myself, there are a few times I wish I could pull off a rez from a certain spot or further away between fights, but midcombat I am usually the only Shaman in the raid and I have no time to be rezzing.</P> <P>The cures I have started on, they aren't very inspiring but at least they have a tanglible benefit.  It is hard to say how much % they are adding to my heal parse, as it were.  One nice thing is that even if another priest does the cure first and my cure cures nothing, it still leaves a ward behind.</P>

[Vulking]

<P>To reply to Triyton, </P> <P>The advantage that I am seeing in the rez line is a sum of the much faster rezzing AA,  and the end AA giving you the ablity to rez any 8 dead raiders within range.  Fast rezzing became critical with many of the massive AoEs kicked off by several of the raid mobs, most notably those in CMF and MMIS to date, I suspect EH is much the same. </P> <P>Our raid force had several designated fast rezzers(dirge, necro, occasionally a fury), to handle getting people up when they got too close to the AoE or if the mob became uncontrol-able and got away from the MT.  Often having these designated rezzers was enough in the KoS zones, but in EoF, and with the loss of our dirge, we are feeling the hurt even more.  As a mystic, my main role in the raid is as a debuffer, im not in the MT group usually.  We have a Defiler for that group.  So my pattern has consisted of spam heals and cures, along with a massive debuffing campaign.  Adding the fast rez ability, with the added bonus of a raid rez, gives me a much broader versatility in an area that I typically didn't touch unless the raid wiped and it was recovery time.</P> <P>An example has been when we had one of the last named mobs, just before Mayong in MMIS, (i forget the mob name, I suck with mob names).  We had the mob down to 9 or 10 percent but 1/2 the raid was dead.  We knew that at 5% the mob would AoE and we needed the firepower to kill it fast so that it couldn't do it more than once, if at all.  No way was our necro and fury going to be able to rez all the downed raiders and we were looking at a wipe and do-over.  I rezzed 8, necro got 1 and fury got 2.  We recovered just enough before the mob was to 5% to be able to kill it.  I attribute the win to having everyone up, and give credit to the raid rez.  </P> <P>This is not just situational, it happens alot.  Granted, if it still goes bad, you have doubled the repair bills for that fight.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Hammarus on <span class=date_text>01-15-2007</span> <span class=time_text>10:25 AM</span>

[Geni]

<P><FONT size=2>STR line without a doubt.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>For second, I went down AGI line and absolutely love the crit heal %.  Especially when grouped with coercer (always in MT group with me), I crit all the time, this includes both wards.</FONT></P>

[Musashi-]

Problem with the Str line is the pet still dies!! and the length of time to recast it.My pet if attacking dies most of the time even with a full str line... is it riposte? maybe<div></div>

[SonnyA]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Musashi- wrote:<BR>Problem with the Str line is the pet still dies!! and the length of time to recast it.<BR><BR>My pet if attacking dies most of the time even with a full str line... is it riposte? maybe<BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes, it's ripostes. Make sure that the tank turns the mobs away from the rest of the group/raid.</P> <P>I don't find it a problem.</P>

[thedu]

I don't have as much of a problem with the pet dieing as I used to mainly because I've figured out when it's the most useful and when not; Even AE's and AoE's don't seem to be as much of problem.<div></div>

[olo]

<div><blockquote><hr>Hammarus wrote:<div></div> <div></div><p>An example has been when we had one of the last named mobs, just before Mayong in MMIS, (i forget the mob name, I suck with mob names).  We had the mob down to 9 or 10 percent but 1/2 the raid was dead.  We knew that at 5% the mob would AoE and we needed the firepower to kill it fast so that it couldn't do it more than once, if at all.  No way was our necro and fury going to be able to rez all the downed raiders and we were looking at a wipe and do-over.  I rezzed 8, necro got 1 and fury got 2.  We recovered just enough before the mob was to 5% to be able to kill it.  I attribute the win to having everyone up, and give credit to the raid rez.  </p> <p><b>This is not just situational, it happens alot.</b>  Granted, if it still goes bad, you have doubled the repair bills for that fight.</p> <p>Message Edited by Hammarus on <span class="date_text">01-15-2007</span> <span class="time_text">10:25 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>You don't have good strats for those mobs, if everyone does as they are told we have ZERO people die in MMIS.  Dieing and rezzing those people are weak strats to make up for a raid makeup that doesn't have the right classes, or for weak raid dps.  For example, if we have weak dps in Freethinkers, we let one of the mobs kill a person every 30 sec.  When we have the dps, we jsut tear through it.</div>

[Vulking]

<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>olord wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hammarus wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>An example has been when we had one of the last named mobs, just before Mayong in MMIS, (i forget the mob name, I suck with mob names).  We had the mob down to 9 or 10 percent but 1/2 the raid was dead.  We knew that at 5% the mob would AoE and we needed the firepower to kill it fast so that it couldn't do it more than once, if at all.  No way was our necro and fury going to be able to rez all the downed raiders and we were looking at a wipe and do-over.  I rezzed 8, necro got 1 and fury got 2.  We recovered just enough before the mob was to 5% to be able to kill it.  I attribute the win to having everyone up, and give credit to the raid rez.  </P> <P><B><FONT color=#ffcc00>This is not just situational, it happens alot.</FONT></B>  Granted, if it still goes bad, you have doubled the repair bills for that fight.</P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by Hammarus on <SPAN class=date_text><FONT color=#756b56>01-15-2007</FONT></SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:25 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>You don't have good strats for those mobs, if everyone does as they are told we have ZERO people die in MMIS.  Dieing and rezzing those people are weak strats to make up for a raid makeup that doesn't have the right classes, or for weak raid dps.  For example, if we have weak dps in Freethinkers, we let one of the mobs kill a person every 30 sec.  When we have the dps, we jsut tear through it.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> <FONT color=#ffcc00>That statement was not to indicate what happens in MMIS regularly, just that it happens on all raids in general.  It was only an example.  We have our MMIS routine down pat and rarely die to the named there now.</FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Vulking]

As a side to the post above.  I am falling a little out of love with the rez AAs.  The cures seem more important to me now.  Another AA respec incoming I think.

[browsy]

<cite>Thatdumbguy wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ritual can be a very valuable skill in situations where you are the solo healer in a group and are confronted with large amounts of group damage to heal (multiple AE's, etc). If you do use it, I would macro your group heal and or/strong heal to look something like this: /usea Ritual /usea Transcendence This way, whenever ritual is available, it will be used... and if it's not, your heal will still cast as normal. Can't remember the first person to post that idea, but it's absolutely golden. Very commonly the second mystic in my raid is in our hybrid group, and often times he is the lone healer; he's expressed some interest in respeccing into it at times given the content in EoF we are currently facing. </blockquote> Im specd 4 4 8 4 8 str, w 4 8 wis, and my group and large single trgt heal are macrod as above, and on a defiler it crits for close to 4k heals, about 3500 for a mystic at max, im sure you coudl get over 4k with tunare dietty miracles personally i love it, and i find it far more usefull then anyway because my dog useuall stops me from being hit by an aoe, and my resists with the DR being the way it is stops the ones that do get through from doing much dmg

[dennis]

I respec'ed and maxed out the crit heal. I just didn''t get any crit heals according to the parsing program. I'm not sure if I should spend the 8 point on the 25% AOE immune. It doesn't happen very often and rarele when you need it on raids.

[WarreSammontakoja]

Hmmm is the Blighter lines last AA called Scourge worth taking?  What does it actually do?

[Greggthegrmreapr]

With the new AA changes in the Class tree I went:  STR 4 4 7 8 1  AGI 4 4 8 6 1.  Having a Blackscale Maul or even better, Vraksakins claw can Up your DPS significantly.  I never found anything in the INT line useful so I dropped it for the Melee crits.

[Jatofyr324]

Denna@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>With the new AA changes in the Class tree I went:  STR 4 4 7 8 1  AGI 4 4 8 6 1.  Having a Blackscale Maul or even better, Vraksakins claw can Up your DPS significantly.  I never found anything in the INT line useful so I dropped it for the Melee crits.</blockquote>You must not raid.

[Mankmeister]

Hey guys, quick question, with the crippling bash AA, the 'mini-dispatch' effect has to occur within 2.5 secs with 1 AA pt in it.  If you put more pts into the skill, does the pet get more time to hit, or does dogdog always have 2 hit within 2.5 secs of u pressing the trigger?