Here is the EoF AA Mystic System !

[|thebos]

<div></div><div></div>I have tested them all and the new AA system is very bad in my opinion .... we only get current spells mods .... I include the first image (Raid configuration) ... will include more ... <img src="http://www.futureop.org/eq2/images/eofaa.jpg">those 5 points left i must get more info.... As a raider : Rezz line -> Useless in raid ... Dps line   -> Same spells that current but with less cast time but more recast time and an AE one ... BUT all these in sustitution of current dps spells (cannot use both) the dps is nearly the same so totally useless ..... Buffs line -> Well is the better .... but have included int and wis in avatar that is a mt spell so wis and int(48 each at max rank) useless for the mt in raid .... and the last spell (new one) is stupid ... "add target(group friend) 1(low rank) 3%(max rank) to triger chance of all spells" 1% is totally stupid ... and useless ... and more if we think that is suppose to be the BEST spell in the line ... also we get oberon upgrade ... now 3000 in adept3 during 36 secs and the ward rgeneration of course ... that is a HUUUGEEE ward ! try it ....  Healer Pet recast time is reduced(u must take this spell if u want oberon upgrade) .... also bolster duraton increase ... mamoth sta increase .... sow 50% !! at max rank (38% in the image) Cure line -> good .. and the last spell is a 3(low rank) 15(max rank)secs of inmunity for all controll spells(mezz, root, fear, charm, etc ....) recast 3mins .... good but i hoped more .... the mod in cures adds a very small ward of the cure type damage .... In conclusion the new aa system dont bring us anything but mods ....See U ! <div></div><p>Message Edited by |theboss| on <span class=date_text>11-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:16 AM</span>

[|thebos]

More more .... :DPS LINE----------------(remember this spells cannot be used with actual ones ... i mean o can use this or T7 ones but not both !!)<img src="http://www.futureop.org/eq2/images/aadps.jpg"><img src="http://www.futureop.org/eq2/images/aadps2.jpg">BUFFS LINE-------------------<img src="http://www.futureop.org/eq2/images/aabufs.jpg">REZZS LINE------------------<img src="http://www.futureop.org/eq2/images/aarezzs.jpg"><div></div>CURES LINE-------------------<img src="http://www.futureop.org/eq2/images/aacure.jpg">Thats all !Take Care !!

[icetower]

<DIV>Immunization is the one single ability that looks quite good, something we don't currently have and can see a tactical use.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Enhance Foretelling and Mammoth look decent.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Enhance Oberon would be useful if it were on a spell that had less of a downside (stunned for duration)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Enhance umbral attendant might be useful if the heal had a range more than a foot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Enhance SoW and Bolster /shrug, better than nothing I guess.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ancestry: a whole 3% - wow - can you say garbage (is this our ability that is the AA equivalent to the defiler 6k ward?)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Combat line: pretty bad, though It may be better than it looks on paper due to quick cast times..btw thanks for previously taking away our self melee proc on ursine augur just to sell it back to us again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Rez line: /em just shakes head and walks away</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV> <DIV>My Rating: </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1 out of 25 abilities is quite good</DIV> <DIV>2 out of 25 abilities are decent</DIV> <DIV>4 out of 25 abilities are better than a kick in the head.</DIV> <DIV>Throw in a couple more marks for possible situational usefulness of the other AA's</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>total: 7-10 out of 25.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Conclusion: Fail, partly due to 0 marks for the rez line which nobody in their right mind could possibly justify using. ever.</DIV>

[|thebos]

I think many mystic dont know what is oberon .......... oberon is FAAAAAAAAAAAAR better that a 6k ward ....Im going to explain what is oberon (just for people that dont know it of course !) :Oberon is not a 3k ward is a 3k autoregeneration ward that means during 36 secs the ward NEVER FINISH if the taget take damage will be warded (max 3k hit) and the ward will restore the 3k again ! (it regerete 1k per sec or more ....) that mean that during the combat u will see during 36 secs a loooooooottttt of things like "Oberon wards XXXX of the damage" U CANNOT Heal in 36 secs even the half than oberon heals ! is a BRUTAL ward ! of course is stupid to solo .... just download a parser and use it and see ! the more hits the tank get the more wards u see .... this means that the new aa oberon augmentation is far better than a 6k ward ! it could be easy the double 12k ward .. of course max hit with oberon is 3k and defiler one is 6k ... but even with that oberon ROCKS ! since the recast is short too !If u use bolster + oberon at same time the result is AMAZING !U can use power regen items like manastone, etc ... while u are using it too !Problems ? u can remove the stun if u need ....How to use it ? :- Solo --> NEVER- Group --> debufs > normal ward and torpor > bolster > oberon AND SEE- Raid --> debufs > normal ward and torpor > bolster > oberon AND SEEI repeat Oberon hp/s is much higher that we can even swear, with our normal heals/wards ...Those thinking im wrong .... just download a parser and check it by yourself ... u will be surprised ....<div></div>

[Munter78]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> |theboss| wrote:<BR>I think many mystic dont know what is oberon .......... oberon is FAAAAAAAAAAAAR better that a 6k ward ....<BR><BR>Im going to explain what is oberon (just for people that dont know it of course !) :<BR><BR>Oberon is not a 3k ward is a 3k autoregeneration ward that means during 36 secs the ward NEVER FINISH if the taget take damage will be warded (max 3k hit) and the ward will restore the 3k again ! (it regerete 1k per sec or more ....) that mean that during the combat u will see during 36 secs a loooooooottttt of things like "Oberon wards XXXX of the damage" U CANNOT Heal in 36 secs even the half than oberon heals ! is a BRUTAL ward ! of course is stupid to solo .... just download a parser and use it and see ! the more hits the tank get the more wards u see .... this means that the new aa oberon augmentation is far better than a 6k ward ! it could be easy the double 12k ward .. of course max hit with oberon is 3k and defiler one is 6k ... but even with that oberon ROCKS ! since the recast is short too !<BR><BR>If u use bolster + oberon at same time the result is AMAZING !<BR><BR>U can use power regen items like manastone, etc ... while u are using it too !<BR><BR>Problems ? u can remove the stun if u need ....<BR><BR>How to use it ? :<BR><BR>- Solo --> NEVER<BR>- Group --> debufs > normal ward and torpor > bolster > oberon AND SEE<BR>- Raid --> debufs > normal ward and torpor > bolster > oberon AND SEE<BR><BR>I repeat Oberon hp/s is much higher that we can even swear, with our normal heals/wards ...<BR><BR>Those thinking im wrong .... just download a parser and check it by yourself ... u will be surprised ....<BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Oberon Barrier regens for FAR less then 1k per sec lol.  It gives you under 300 hps on a fight, but you can achieve over 450 hps by spam casting group and targe wards.</P> <P>Now even with this boost to Oberon, I can only imagine the tick did get an increase, but at most I can only see it ticking for about 1k or so every 6 seconds.</P>

[|thebos]

<div></div><div></div>Lol that is not true man ! not at all ! at least not in my server ! i have parsed oberon SO MANY TIMES ! and the hps is by FAAAAAAAARRRR more than that man BY FAR i can show you whenever but as i said the mob MUST be hard (u MUST see non-stop damage(no magic) in the mt even with oberon to know oberon effect is maximized) .... to see oberon ... in actual oberon in adept3 i see oberon ward 996 nearly every second .... if any think im wrong ... i can show ... i said it ... download a parser and see ..... and i repeat the mob must be diiificult ... the more difficult the more usefull will oberon be ....<div></div><p>Message Edited by |theboss| on <span class="date_text">11-09-2006</span> <span class="time_text">05:39 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by |theboss| on <span class=date_text>11-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:44 PM</span>

[LadyKahlan]

<DIV>I have to agree, oberon rocks...I use it often on hard fights in raids, or when its a long fight and healers need a power break..I have master so the returns are greater for me. Granted in a short fast fight it is better to cast spam wards/group wards. This is a ace in the hole for mystics to have.</DIV>

[Banditman]

Oberon / Oberon Barrier are very situational.Yes, you can most definitely Heal / Ward more damage faster by using your other spells.  It's just plain numbers.However, consider not only yourself, but the other raid members as well.Do you have more than one Shaman on the raid?  If so, Oberon will prevent you from overwriting each other's ST Wards.  While your personal healing will drop some, the overall healing between the two Shaman will increase since each will be parsing at closer to maximum efficiency.Use these tools, like all tools, wisely and appropriately within the context of the encounter.<div></div>

[Eepop]

Its also fun to drop oberon on a berzerker when doing group content.  Pull as many encounters are available, open wounds, juggernaught....lots of dead mobs. <div></div>

[Banditman]

Our MT has some sort of God complex I think.  When we're doing quests and stuff he thinks in terms of "floors"."PoA, 3rd floor, INC!"Sometimes when he gets overzealous we "forget" to heal him.  Hilarity ensues.<div></div>

[|thebos]

If the damage is constant and allways higher than oberon barrier can aford ... then the effect is maximized and IN THAT moment use a parser u will see im not speaking of a big heal im speaking about a HUGEEEE heal far more than i could ever imagine ! U CANNOT heal more without oberon and during Oberon u will be de max hps healer BY FAR ! dont say me "no" just try it ! and parse it ! THEN return here .... the best situation is in raid and if u are in mt group .... Use it with bolster .... and o god it really ROCKS !I was one of the mystics with nearly all in Master and some adept3 and 1 spell in app1 that was oberon hehe then i start to try it and test it in many situations .... and now i must say is my second favourite spell !Use this and cast as fast as posible --> Debuffs + Group Ward + Single Ward + Torpor + Bolster + Oberon Barrier the result is just Amazing and so brutal .... Of course if the mob do less dps than we can remove ... the result is a low hps .... thats why this is only usefull in high incoming dps ...Anyway this post is to speak about the new aa system <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> heheSee U<div></div>

[MRRX]

<P>What does this mean with the combat line - "As an alternative to xxxx, you can use yyyyyy as a melee attack".</P> <P>You could double your DPS using both (the spell and the melee attack), so I'm guessing they both grey out when one is used.      Or is there any overlap with the two abilities ?</P> <P><A href="http://mrrx.wordpress.com" target=_blank>MrrX's Character Journal</A></P>

[Shagg]

I played around with these last night, they are pretty neat. SOW is faster than my dirge, gives some safe fall and is out of group. All I can say is get ready for a lot of "d00d sow plz" tells. The stats are neat. Avatar increases only 48 int/wis so pretty much worthless in a raid situation since you will be casting it on the tank (although its a bit of resists). I'm interested in testing Ancestry a bit more. It could be very valuable... increasing the tanks hate procs (and all others) is good as a shaman! I was running around with dogdog all buffed up (including ancestry) and testing the safe fall component and I accidentally agro'd some little green faedrake thingies. Well it wasn't very easy getting agro back from dogdog, so I just started warding him lol. He was spec'd STR/INT with max immunities and ward procs (no dogbomb AA) at the time. It wasn't by any means a scientific test and I wasn't taking anything too seriously but I've never seen him on such a tear before. Sometimes 3% is very valuable...35% increase to Oberon is neat.The control spell immunity affect is nice too.The free wards with cures may not seem like much but that is handy to get a little healing while removing debuffs.All in all I think mystics did ok. My warlock on the other hand is bummed, but thats another thread <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Banditman]

<P>You clearly didn't parse it, or you would realize that you are dead wrong.</P> <P>If you have Oberon Barrier Master I you will get an initial Ward of 2278 HP and then a regeneration of 1139 HP every 4 seconds.  Over the course of 36 seconds, you "Heal" a total of 11390 HP.  All in all, you heal at a rate of 316.39 HP/s.</P> <P>Now, let's look at a Shaman who is not stunned, and what he can do.</P> <P>We're comparing Master I values, so for this little exercise all my other Heal values are Master I as well.</P> <P>In 36 seconds, I can cast:  Umbral Liturgy (twice), Ethereal Aegis (four times), Rejuvenating Rite (four times) and Learned Healing (twice).  Note that I've left out Torpor at this point, because this is (approximately) what a Defiler would do.</P> <P>For the direct Heals that have a range, I'm using the average of the high and low value.</P> <P>(3346 x 2) + (1788 x 4) + (834 x 4) + (1480 x 2) = 20140 HP or a rate of 559.44 HP/s.</P> <P>By working in Torpor in the gap at 14 - 20 seconds, A Mystic can get:</P> <P>(3346 x 2) + (1788 x 4) + (834 x 4) + (1480 x 2) + (1393+1393+595) = 23521 or a rate of 653.35 HP/s.</P> <P> </P> <P>That last example is more than twice the rate of Oberon Barrier alone.  I suppose I could probably work it out so that I actually get 1.5 casts of Torpor in and make the numbers even more outrageously in favor of NOT using Oberon Barrier, but that isn't my point.</P> <P>My point here is quite simple.</P> <P>Oberon Barrier is a tool.  A good tool, when used in the proper situation.  It is not, by any means, the be-all-end-all of Mystic healing.  A Mystic could get by quite nicely without ever using it, and in fact in situations where you need the absolute maximum amount of healing possible should not be used.</P> <P>Observe.  Analyze.  Act.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Banditman on <span class=date_text>11-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:08 PM</span>

[Shagg]

<div></div>The real good use of this tool is likely for power constrained fights:Edit: This is with the AA 35% boost.547 power == 15376 HP or 427 HP/s (hmm can Oberon crit? that would be nice, honestly I rarely use it)ULx2 (356), EAx4 (190), RRx4 (146), LHx2 (254)2564 power == 20140HP or 559 HP/sTheoretically it should rule for fights with heavy mana dots or power consumption restraints. However your need for power can be affected by many things...And of course Oberon isn't constantly sustainable so you'd have to mix it into a regular warding, healing and debuffing routine. Honestly I doubt anyone is solely warding/healing unless they have extra shaman around to do their debuffing for them, but for the sake of the argument it makes sense because you'd pretty much have to debuff the mob before both of these scenarios. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I'll probably take that AA and play with it a bit.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Shaggis on <span class=date_text>11-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:37 PM</span>

[Shagg]

Oh wait... I found a better use. It gives you 36s to run to the fridge and get another beer.<div></div>

[Birn]

Oberon.. well, it kinda looks good on the paper but it doesn't really work. There are always someone who needs a cure/patch heal or you are busy reapplying some debuffs and with that stun you probably have to cancel oberon almost right away.I would rather see our group heal improved instead because it seems quite weak compared to other classes or at least cut the power cost a bit.

[|thebos]

Banditman Are u reading my posts ??Im saying i see oberon barrier wards for 996 in raid NEARLY EACH(like 1.5) second and from time to time a number higher than 996 ... my hps with Oberon barrier in raid is more than the double of youre score man .... maybe different armor/skills ? i dont know but i can heal more than the double of that score .... anyway i repeat u dont read my posts since im explaining the way to use it .... fast cast -> Debuffs + Group Ward + Single Ward + Torpor + Bolster + [Emergency wards Optional] + Oberon Barrier if u are fast u can easyly have at least 2 wards + oberon at same time .... that gives u an extra hps while oberon is up .... even u can cast the 2 emergency wards just before oberon .... then will be mooore hps .... Im saying that my parser during oberon barrier(I repeat oberon must be maximized to see this) parse far more than double of youre score ... if u dont get this score then u are not using well oberon ....Birn u dont read my posts too .... i said it clearly ... How to Use --> Debuffs + Group Ward + Single Ward + Torpor + Bolster + [Emergency wards Optional] + Oberon Barrier, u will no need to cast debuffs during oberon cuz all must be up before casting oberon ... and cure is not a problem since u are not the only healer ... and other healers can cast the cure while oberon is up ....Stop saying me no .. and try EXACTLY what i am explaining u men .... (read it well im not saying JUST oberon hps is higher than free chain-heal ... but DURING oberon is up hps can be MUCH higher than free heal if u use it as im explaining ....)-------------------------------------------MRXX u cannot use both dps spells ... u can only use 1 .... i mean u add the new one to your hotbar and remove the old one ....the problem with this as i have tested is that the dps is toooooooooooo close to actual dps ..... since the cast time is nearly instant and damage is a little higher in the new spells BUT the recast is increased a lot .... so finally u get nearly the same ... and u have spend 25 aa in that line <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> that is not good at all .....Anyway everyday there are new updates .... so i imagine they will change it ... since doing numbers ... seems is just a bug or an error ....Avatar is not good at all .... maybe for solo ... but not for raiding ... since wis and int are not good for a tank ... it only adds a little of resists to the tank ... for the cost of 5aa .... and now that the cap has been increased that "little" of resists is useless(like 0.009+ resists mitigation) ... thats why i havent give any aa to it ....As i said ancestry could be really good ... but the numbers are REALLY low .... a 3% max (6aa cost to maximize, 2 per rank, 3 rank max) is better than nothing ... but really low anyway ... that means to proc maybe 1 more time per each 100 tries .... for the cost of 6aa ... maybe a 10% could be a good number ... or a 40% but with time duration ... i dont know ... but i have tested it in raid/group/solo and u dont see any changes .... are totally invisible <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[thedu]

'theboss' is english your second language. I'm not trying to be mean, but could you please stop with '...'. If you have time to write all that you did, using correct phrasing helps people understand what your trying to say.  I just can't read your post's.<div></div>

[Ordate]

<DIV>Honestly I can't remember if it regens every 2 seconds or every 4 seconds.  I thought it was two, but the actual numbers I care little about and more about just knowing when and when not to use.  Either way, it is still a very situational tool.  You have to know when it is "safe" to use it and when it isnt.  Another use that I dont see many people using it for is the omg Im out of heals and the tank is dying.  Flick on, flick off.  It is fairly fast cast to get an extra 2k heal up.</DIV> <DIV>I think the worst sin while using OB is the mindset you have to let it run the full course.  There are many times where its a good heal to use but when something more pressing comes up, you should drop it to take care of the other.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a different note:  Yes OB can crit.  Kind of funny seeing those big numbers tick by pulse after pulse <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[icetower]

<DIV>It's every 4 seconds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm guessing this guy is mixing up the "your oberon barrier regenerates" part with the "your oberon barrier absorbs" part. Anyway thats the only way I can think of that he gets his "1.5 seconds" claim.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lets get real here. The previous calculations are accurate.- This AA will allow 427 hp/s vs 316 hp/s <EM>at the cost of doing nothing</EM> <EM>else!!</EM>. It's ok, not uber by a long shot, but ok.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Foretelling gets an increase of 160 hps and Mammoth increase stamina to about 100.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Again, we got 1 good AA, a small handful of useful ones, and a large handful of crap.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not happy here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Kaharthemad]

<div><blockquote><hr>Banditman wrote:Our MT has some sort of God complex I think.  When we're doing quests and stuff he thinks in terms of "floors"."PoA, 3rd floor, INC!"Sometimes when he gets overzealous we "forget" to heal him.  Hilarity ensues.<div></div><hr></blockquote>we had a wizzy that liked Nova a little too much. he would grab aggro from the meatshield then run in cirlces around the party while the mobs he upset beat on him screaming "Heal me!!! Got Aggro!!!"We sued to forget to heal him too will we found Torpor works for a fast heal...however is slows him down enough for the mobs to eat him. But hey atleast I heal him now.</div>

[Kaharthemad]

For soloing the melee line is ok. I duo alot with my wife and it comes in handy. However I too am not real thrilled with the spell lines they gave us. I feel cheated. As for Oberon, its a good spell but I dont use it as much as some shammys do.<div></div>

[Banditman]

Well Boss, every time you reply you keep digging that hole deeper man.Your numbers are wrong.  Dead.  Flat.  Wrong.  I'm sorry.  You are clearly confusing your absorbs with regeneration ticks.  Look at the LOGS.  Not what pops up over the mobs head.This is what it looks like in the logs:(1148524774)[Wed May 24 22:39:34 2006] Sudedor's Oberon Barrier regenerates 855 points of absorption.(1148524775)[Wed May 24 22:39:35 2006] YOUR Oberon Barrier absorbs 855 points of damage from being done to Exile(114852477<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Wed May 24 22:39:38 2006] Sudedor's Oberon Barrier regenerates 855 points of absorption.Now, that is NOT 2565 points of healing.  It's 855.  The only Ward/Heal was the line in the middle.  In combat, looking at my target, it would appear as three 855's . . . but it only healed ONCE.Chain healing provides greater HP/s over 36 seconds than Oberon does.  There is absolutely no way to argue any differently and not look foolish.Yes, there are most definitely situations where Oberon can and should be used, it simply isn't the strongest heal ever.  Sorry.<div></div>

[Merrygr]

<P>Could someone please explain the DPS line to me?</P> <P>At first glance it only looks as if our normal nukes/dots have been replaced by CA versions of them. Where is the benefit in this (apart from casting while running)? What is it about the DPS line that increases my damage output (apart from the one that gives us back our bear proc)? Or are they just there to give us something to spend points on to unlock later abilities?</P> <P>[Edit] This post vame out all whiney sounding. Was not my intent, I'm just curios to know if I missed something when I read it. <P>Message Edited by Merrygrin on <SPAN class=date_text>11-10-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:07 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Merrygrin on <span class=date_text>11-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:00 PM</span>

[Birn]

Theboss:Casting all those debuffs/wards/etc takes over 20seconds so you can never let oberon run out before you need to reapply some debuffs and with the insane 2min 30 recast of oberon you cannot start over the chain and as mentioned above, it regens every 4 seconds so it's not that great.I use oberon like a small emergency heal, if I'm "out" of heals and then I can use oberon to get another 2k but I always end up cancelling it before it runs out. Very situational.<div></div>

[|thebos]

Im not going to explain again think what u want .... but any debuff is up more than 20+36 seconds man ... so i dont understand u .... and again im not speaking about the hps of oberon ... im speaking about the hps that u get during 36 secs if u use well oberon ... anyway im not going to speak about this anymore .... think what u want .... i will go on using it cuz no one get a better hps than me during that ... (and im not in a casual guild ....) ok thats all ....----------------------------------------DPS LINE --> read the spells u get them in REMPLACE of current ones ... so u must forget all of your actual smites and dots and use these ones instead ....What u get doing this line is : - Less cast time - More Damage - Melee proc with bear form (the same they remove in the same spell time ago ... <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) - Far more recast timeGlobally that means u will be able to do nearly the same dps as now in KoS but spending a lot of AA's .... so useless at all .... anyway they will change it to be at least quite better than our actual dps .... otherway no mystic will choose that line ... even solo players ....<div></div>

[ShadowyStingray]

Are CA's subject to the same interrupt possibilities as spells are?  For some reason I'm thinking CA's aren't interruptible, so is this a possible reason for their inclusion/replacement of the existing damage spells, so that soloing will be a little less frustrating (at least from the interrupt factor)?  Just guessing on the logic behind their inclusion since it seems strange especially since they replace and don't augment the existing damage spells...<div></div>

[Birn]

<div><blockquote><hr>|theboss| wrote:Im not going to explain again think what u want .... but any debuff is up more than 20+36 seconds man ... so i dont understand u .... and again im not speaking about the hps of oberon ... im speaking about the hps that u get during 36 secs if u use well oberon ... anyway im not going to speak about this anymore .... think what u want .... i will go on using it cuz no one get a better hps than me during that ... (and im not in a casual guild ....) ok thats all ....----------------------------------------DPS LINE --> read the spells u get them in REMPLACE of current ones ... so u must forget all of your actual smites and dots and use these ones instead ....What u get doing this line is : - Less cast time - More Damage - Melee proc with bear form (the same they remove in the same spell time ago ... <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) - Far more recast timeGlobally that means u will be able to do nearly the same dps as now in KoS but spending a lot of AA's .... so useless at all .... anyway they will change it to be at least quite better than our actual dps .... otherway no mystic will choose that line ... even solo players ....<div></div><hr></blockquote>Shrieking haze, Lethargy, Eidolon are on a 36s duration.</div>

[Banditman]

They are interruptable, but because they have such a fast cast time (typically .5 seconds), the likelihood of them being interrupted is proportionally lower.<div></div>

[Vulking]

I think one of the primary benefits of Oberon is that you are not burning power while it is up, and infact can regen it thru hearts, shards, manastones, etc.  I tend to use it when i want to protect the mt, but also get some power back after

[Mystiq]

<div></div>Our new achievements pretty much suck. What's good mostly benefits someone else, like a tank, and particularly a tank in <i>your own group</i> because Ancestry and Immunization can't be used accross your raid. Some of you still second fiddle MT group choice to your guild's Defiler? Yeah, me too!The resurrection line has been improved over what it was originally, believe it or not. Maxed out to get the final ability, which is a PBAE rez of up to 8 targets around you, you end up with rez spells giving 15% more health and power to the target, rez cast times reduced by 50% (which only seemed to knock the 10 and 4 second cast spells down to 6.67 and 2.27, respectively) and rez distance boosted to 50 meters.All of these are indeed decent changes to spells nobody likes to waste time casting, but they're not worth the points required, and I'd be happier seeing enhancements to MYSTIC spells, not crap every priest has.The buff enhancement line gives pretty lackluster returns all the way down. 15% more HP on Foretelling....yay...it's still nowhere near the HP Rapacity gives, and any tank that's successfully kept aggro when his power has run out will tell you, he'd always pick HP over power. More run speed to sow....great...I'll just go sell my horse whistle right now! Huh uh, no. Horses are getting a facelift and they look better than ever! And not to mention fall damage has been reduced all around on beta, dare I say halved, so adding it to a short duration buff doesn't really impress.They're also making us spend 5 points to get our melee proc back on the Ursine line. Some of us remember when it was part of that buff. It wasn't overpowering or inappropriate then, and it isn't going to give us the much needed DPS boost we need now.Next up is reduced recast on Umbral Attendant...do people use this spell? I do only when I need a heal and am just too lazy to target myself. It's not like anyone else in my group will be close enough to get healed with it.The increased stamina on Spirit of the Mammoth used to be a reduced recast enhancement for Prophetic Aegis. Call me crazy but THAT achievement I LIKED. Some of the hardest events in the game currently make good use of this spell, and with the recast reduction you could keep this ward up perpetually. Pretty powerful in a FEW encounters, and quite frankly I'd take it over a bit more sta. It's gonna take a lot more than 27 sta to take high end geared players out of the hump their capped stats are in to the point where buffing up stats makes a real difference.Avatar getting int and wis will just further my inclination to cast it on myself as I have been doing for several months now. Nobody else needs it, I took whatever extra avoidance I could get <span>:smileytongue:</span>. Oberon, well, seems there's been enough discussion about that already, and as usual Banditman is right. It's not a great use of otherwise available time and power. A 35% increase in its ward sure as hell doesn't make it 1k every second or two seconds or whatever that nonsense was. 3075 base, 1538 (half the base, in case someone wasn't aware of how it worked) every 4 seconds. Worked like a charm while those 4 green solo mobs were beating me for my test.Next is an extra 10 seconds on Bolster at max rank. Not too shabby, considering that at first it was 5 seconds! Every raiding mystic uses this spell whenever possible I'm sure, so points are well spent if they must go somewhere in this mess. Finally at the end of this line is Ancestry, sadly nerfed from 5% down to a 3% increase on proc rates. I'll be keeping this on myself thank you very much, more Fitzpitzle procs, more Marr's Blessing and yes, more Ursine Bear Claws!This post is entirely too long as it is. I'll have to continue my take on the rest of the Mystic Achievements some other time. Cheers.<div></div>

[povarbeast]

<DIV>Oberon barrier see very little use when I raid, if it was a raid wide spell then maybe it would actually be usefull.</DIV>

[predel]

=( ...Defilers get some nifty ones...D*mn them!And as far as the hps stuff goes... I wish I had those numbers.MoA4 Raid top three heals..Allies: (39:31) 1373132 | 579.14Carita 511911 | 215.91 - Me. Uhm? I want like 600hps.Ashinae 249928 | 105.41Mendy 136782 | 57.69<p>Message Edited by predelta on <span class=date_text>11-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:12 AM</span>

[Specteral]

<div></div>Yeah, know what you mean predelta.  I'm half the healers in the raid and 99% have the highest hps on the parse, but its really rare I break 400 and generally I'm only in the 250 range.  Then again, we're taking on some x4 stuff with 9 to 11 people (labs trash is fun with 11, lol), so the 5k dps we maintain means the battles are longer which theoretically cuts the hps.  Ah well.Personally, I'm looking forward to the new AA's.  One question fer you hardcore raiders, what's the reccomended makeup?  Does the ward component on the cures warrent them, or is it better to max out the buffs line?Oh, and any major changes to the other oldschool lines?  I got the pet immunity and working on the crit heals, figured those were probably best.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Specteral on <span class=date_text>11-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:37 AM</span>

[Thatdumbg]

    They changed again last night. The tree is rearranged and a couple of abilities have changed, Ill get screenshots soon.<div></div>

[Mystiq]

^^ Yep, at least now we have enough abilities in the resurrection section to even get the final ability after they made the change to requiring 20 points spent. Now we have a whopping 6 rez achievements including cast time reduction, recast reduction, range, power cost reduction, hp/power replenishment increase, and the final PBAE rez spell.Oh and the buff achievements were rearranged a bit, plus, the Spirit of the Mammoth achievement icon was actually replaced with the spell icon for Prophetic Aegis, for some reason, which was taken out, for some reason. I think someone did that just for me <span>:smileyindifferent:</span>.Speaking from a high end raid perspective here.  I'd like to know the reasoning behind giving a class that is both solidly - above all else - a primary healer and debuffer, 12 areas of point sinks into rezing and meleeing. We get ONE achievement that has anything to do with healing, on a spell that's barely used, and ZERO achievements affecting our debuffs. Somebody make some sense of that to me, because I can't find any.<div></div>

[Thatdumbg]

<div><blockquote><hr>Mystique wrote:^^ Yep, at least now we have enough abilities in the resurrection section to even get the final ability after they made the change to requiring 20 points spent. Now we have a whopping 6 rez achievements including cast time reduction, recast reduction, range, power cost reduction, hp/power replenishment increase, and the final PBAE rez spell.Oh and the buff achievements were rearranged a bit, plus, the Spirit of the Mammoth achievement icon was actually replaced with the spell icon for Prophetic Aegis, for some reason, which was taken out, for some reason. I think someone did that just for me <span>:smileyindifferent:</span>.Speaking from a high end raid perspective here.  I'd like to know the reasoning behind giving a class that is both solidly - above all else - a primary healer and debuffer, 12 areas of point sinks into rezing and meleeing. We get ONE achievement that has anything to do with healing, on a spell that's barely used, and ZERO achievements affecting our debuffs. Somebody make some sense of that to me, because I can't find any.<div></div><hr></blockquote>To tell you straight up Mystique, after betabuffing a defiler up and looking at their achievements...If they don't seriously give us a boost in ours, I'm going to betray. This is the last straw. I love this class, but I love successful raiding for my guild more then anything.</div>

[icetower]

<DIV>I'm in the same boat.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is one reason only that I haven't betrayed, and that is because we already have a Defiler who is also an officer with 100% raid attendance, who does a ton of stuff for the guild and fully deserves his permanent raidspot. And since all our other Mystics quit the game (I wonder why) we need a raid geared Mystic more than another Defiler.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I raid on this char and that is all he is used for.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I genuinely believe that Mystic is now squarely ranked worst overall amongst priest classes. We simply have too much rubbish amongst our spells and AA. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Too much stuff we never use, too many poorly thought out secondary effects, cast times too slow (my mage has no spells that even come close to our group ward cast time), no crowd control, weakest dps in the entire game, no spells that can still be cast when stunned/stifled, a stupidly conceived weak pet that hamstrings the effectiveness of our existing AA etc..etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I feel a rant coming on so I'm just gunna go play my conjuror who actually has most of the tools needed to make an enjoyable class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Eepop]

I could go on for hours on changes we need, but the sky isnt falling. Rez line is plain useless.  Only ones that dont know it is the devs. Buff line is acceptable, if everything else were up to this, we could live with it. Melee line is right on target for what its needed for, soloing/small grouping.  Of course the DPS doesnt matter in raids, but theres nothing wrong with having 1 of 4 lines cater to soloers. Cure line is good in priniciple, just not in practice.  Instead of warding against further damage, it needs to repeat the cure again a second later. If they replaced the rez line with very small bonuses to heals, and made the change to the cure line, I would be pretty happy with these AAs.  The real problem is that the lines that dont work are the ones that are targetted at the majority of mystics (those who chose it to be healers). <div></div>

[Terq]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Eepop wrote:<BR>I could go on for hours on changes we need, but the sky isnt falling.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>But then you go over and look at the Defiler AAs, and realize that we definitely got the short end of the stick.</FONT><BR><BR>Rez line is plain useless.  Only ones that dont know it is the devs.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Absolutely agree on that one.</FONT><BR><BR>Buff line is acceptable, if everything else were up to this, we could live with it.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Agree, for the most part.  As it stands, 99% of the mystics are going to be taking this line.</FONT><BR><BR>Melee line is right on target for what its needed for, soloing/small grouping.  Of course the DPS doesnt matter in raids, but theres nothing wrong with having 1 of 4 lines cater to soloers.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>I disagree on this one.  All the reports that I have seen say that the actual DPS doesn't change much.  If that is the case, then this line does nothing for the soloers.  Give our dots a DPS bump.  Give our nukes a DPS bump.  The only thing that I see as useful is the melee proc, which as others pointed out, we had pre-LU13 anyhow.  </FONT><BR><BR>Cure line is good in priniciple, just not in practice.  Instead of warding against further damage, it needs to repeat the cure again a second later.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>I don't like this one either.  Every status effect needs to be cured ASAP, and the small ward that these things have won't last one tic of a large aoe dot.  Even if it cast a second cure a couple seconds later, I wouldn't be taking it.  </FONT><BR><BR>If they replaced the rez line with very small bonuses to heals, and made the change to the cure line, I would be pretty happy with these AAs.  The real problem is that the lines that dont work are the ones that are targetted at the majority of mystics (those who chose it to be healers).<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>My comments are in yellow.  Nothing really new to add.  I am usually pretty level headed about this, and was willing to chalk this one up as the AAs pretty much stinking for every class.  However, that really isn't the case.  Some people get some relatively nice abilities that effect their core abilities at the archetype (ie healer/DPS/Tank) level.  With ours, they took the areas of our class that we use the least, and tried to buff those.  Quite simply a bad idea. </P>

[Vulking]

<DIV>______________________-</DIV> <DIV>Terq wrote:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My comments are in yellow.  Nothing really new to add.  I am usually pretty level headed about this, and was willing to chalk this one up as the AAs pretty much stinking for every class.  However, that really isn't the case.  Some people get some relatively nice abilities that effect their core abilities at the archetype (ie healer/DPS/Tank) level.  With ours, they took the areas of our class that we use the least, and tried to buff those.  <FONT color=#ffcc00>Quite simply a bad idea. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffcc00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>_____________________-</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffcc00>I wouldn't say a bad idea, but it sounds like badly implemented, or thought out.  More to the point, un-creative.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffcc00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffcc00>T</FONT><FONT color=#ffcc00>his notion of increasing SoW. Say whaa??  Why?  Most will not bother, horses are cheaper, some carpets are "free" (excluding time).  Why not make it better, For instance, say by adding etheral form to it.  A ability that turns you into a misty shadow, that for 15 minutes (or whatever time amount), you cannot be hit, but thus cannot hit (cast).   It would work much like stealth abilities for scouts but with some unique twists.For instance other etheral forms can see and hit you, normal mobs that see stealth can hit you, etc. Plus, so that scouts don't feel threatened by it, add a 30second to 1 minute stat reduction (like rez effects, but not as strong), for after you cancel it.  No run speed reductions to it, so it would be like stealth on steroids, and a hellava hangover after.  Anyway, just an idea at being more creative with AAs.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffcc00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffcc00>I'm getting the impression, that the Devs, in their desire to streamline everything, simplify, quantify, scale-ify, etc, are forgeting to be creative.</FONT></DIV>

[Terq]

<DIV>Your SOW is definitely more creative.  I will give you that.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here is why I say "bad idea" though - </DIV> <DIV>When some classes are given abilities that directly effect their class defining roll, then those classes gain an advantage over other classes in fulfilling those rolls.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, I have zero problem with giving everyone "ancillary" ability buffs - like the sow that you describe, or (arguably) the rez line that we have now.  My problem is when some classes get to make choices that have a direct impact on their core function, and other classes are only given these "secondary" abilities.</DIV>

[Darwina9]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Terq wrote:<div>Your SOW is definitely more creative.  I will give you that.  </div> <div> </div> <div>Here is why I say "bad idea" though - </div> <div>When some classes are given abilities that directly effect their class defining roll, then those classes gain an advantage over other classes in fulfilling those rolls.  </div> <div> </div> <div>Now, I have zero problem with giving everyone "ancillary" ability buffs - like the sow that you describe, or (arguably) the rez line that we have now.  My problem is when some classes get to make choices that have a direct impact on their core function, and other classes are only given these "secondary" abilities.</div><hr></blockquote>I agree. I chose this class to be a healer and a buffer and it seems that SOE has decided to give us these secondary skills that really don't help us with our core function but then they make ANOTHER class and give it the same core function only they're given the best abilities to suit their core function. Where does that leave mystics? Debuffing, basically, throwing a heal here and there. I just want to be able to COMPETE with defilers, or have something to make up for the enormous boost to their core function and the huge lack of one to ours. I would never ever consider betraying, I worked too hard to find every master for my character and spent huge amounts of time and money, but it's pretty hard to be a mystic when they've made a class that does everything you do, only better. It would be nice to have something to help us out.<div></div><div></div><p>Message Edited by Darwina9 on <span class=date_text>11-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:45 PM</span>

[Vulking]

<P>I have a problem with the term "class defining ability".  What is that? In my combined 280 levels (4 level 70s),  I have yet to see one.  Everyone talks about class defining, but I've never seen a skill that when nerfed someone didn't scream, "you took away one of our class defining abilities (OMG)"!  Or a worthless ability passed off as crap and well... "its not class defining anyway".  </P> <P>If you mean healing is class defining, well there are atleast 5 others, if you mean debuffing well there are at least 12 others, if you mean buffing well i believe all 24 do. I would challenge you to find a single skill that we have that at least one other class doesn't have an equal of.  </P> <P>/sarcastic Class defining?  Please explain to me what that is?</P> <P>I don't want to compete with other classes! I want to be my own class.  I want other players to look at me and say, "there goes a mystic".</P>

[Eepop]

I'd rather compete than be the "King of Rezzes that never get cast" <div></div>

[Ordate]

<P>Don't ya know?  You defeat encounters now by dying to them!</P> <P>Err..</P> <P>Ya I agree, about anything would be better then 5 or 6 or however many skills to our rezzes.</P>

[Rayche]

<DIV>So just out of curiousity.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I wouldn't mind so much if they increased our DPS abilities so we made a decent addition to DPS and healing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Has anyone taken the melee/damage increasing AA's to the max and tested them?</DIV>

[Darwina9]

<div><blockquote><hr>Gojirax wrote:<div>So just out of curiousity.</div> <div> </div> <div>I wouldn't mind so much if they increased our DPS abilities so we made a decent addition to DPS and healing.</div> <div> </div> <div>Has anyone taken the melee/damage increasing AA's to the max and tested them?</div><hr></blockquote>I tested them on Beta and found them to be pretty much useless. Same dps I could get going all out with master damage spells, maybe 1-2 points higher, IF that. <span>:smileymad:</span> </div>

[Ordate]

<P>I goofed around with it some.  Really what the CA lines come down to is the speed of your weapon you would attack with mostly.   Take the instance of having the shaman agi line maxed out and you have bought all the ca's.</P> <P>If you are using a serpentine skewer (delay I think 1.6).  Having the CAs will boost your dps a little because of getting off more straight melee attacks.  If you are using umm crap can't think of its name all of a sudden.  The 8 delay weapon from blackscale you wont see an increase in your dps.  (assuming you had the agility line and no ca's as the counter).  The problem that you face with the CAs is that they have a recast that adds up to x2 what the casting of a nuke with its delay equates to.  The only CA where you might see an increase in damage vs. the nuke is our AE.  As that goes unlocked if there is a multi encounter situation you might be able to spike your dps up more.</P> <P>If the CAs had the approximately same casting time as our nukes it would be a very interesting addition.  But as it is, depending on weaponry and factoring in raid situations etc.  It is really a "fluff" line.  Some will disagree with me and say look at the leet dps I posted in beta.  They also won't tell you they had 2 augs on that were doing 130 extra damage (per aug) every melee hit <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Any DPS increase you get from these skills will actually not be from those skills but from the agility line.  If you buy the ca's and not the agility line your dps is truely going to go up (assuming a fast delay weapon) by only a very small fractional amount if at all.  On slow weapon would actually show you a reduction in dps as you wouldnt be critting the CAs therefore any damage lost from them is not made up by swinging a weapon more often.</P> <P>I said this in another post and Ill say it here again.  These were not designed to raise the actual dps we are capable of (assuming chain nuking with melee attacks inbetween)  they are designed so we can get the occasional swack of damage in between our other functions (healing, debuffing, curing).</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Ordate on <span class=date_text>11-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:33 AM</span>

[Triyton]

<P>As to SOW, it is useful in most instances and raids, where you can't use horses.  The safefall component will add usefullness outdoors, regardless of what horse you have.</P> <P>Umbral Attendant I should remember to use more often.  Due to the short range it won't heal the MT most of the time but when the group is close together it should even be able to heal across the raid.</P> <P>Oberon Barrier in prior posts was pointed out to be the most efficient heal.  In a long fight requiring constant healing, even with a mana regen buffer in the group, throwing that in a couple times during the fight can help in getting thru to the end.  I set up my debuffs, throw in torpor and a regular ward, then Oberon Barrier.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Terq]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hammarus wrote:<BR> <P>I have a problem with the term "class defining ability".  What is that? In my combined 280 levels (4 level 70s),  I have yet to see one.  Everyone talks about class defining, but I've never seen a skill that when nerfed someone didn't scream, "you took away one of our class defining abilities (OMG)"!  Or a worthless ability passed off as crap and well... "its not class defining anyway".  </P> <P>If you mean healing is class defining, well there are atleast 5 others, if you mean debuffing well there are at least 12 others, if you mean buffing well i believe all 24 do. I would challenge you to find a single skill that we have that at least one other class doesn't have an equal of.  </P> <P>/sarcastic Class defining?  Please explain to me what that is?</P> <P>I don't want to compete with other classes! I want to be my own class.  I want other players to look at me and say, "there goes a mystic".</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I never said "class defining."  If you are looking for one spell to point to that is "class defining," I agree that you probably won't find it.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have always said that the beauty of EQ2 is the versatility that you have between classes.  There is no "holy trinity," which is a good thing.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What I did say was that some people get abilites that impact their "core function" or "archetype abilities."  For us, that is healing, beit through wards, direct heals, hots, reactives or any other mechanism that you can come up with.  For a summoner/predator/sorcerer, that "core function" is DPS.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My point is that some classes get AAs that reinforce their core archetype ability.  We don't.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>280 levels?  /e hands Hammarus a cookie.  <BR></DIV>

[Crond]

<P>on a side note...for what it's worth, i just got one rank in the melee line today, and i respected my old line and got 100% crit chance from the melee line...well....our new melee AP's crit everytime....so with crit dots and such, i assume that would up our dps quite a bit, but like i said, only got one rank in chilling strike so far, and not tested the dot ticks or whatever from the melee line, but with rank one, i critted for 550+ with chilling strike each hit, </P> <P>*shrug*</P> <P> </P> <P>+50% sow +10% jboots= 60% run speed, and i can backup faster then a carept or horse now too, lol</P> <P> </P> <P>Crondar Spiritwalker</P> <P>70 Mystic of AB</P> <P> </P>

[thedu]

Do we have to go with a secondary line?  Are we restricted with just 50 in the first tree?<div></div>

[Terq]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thedump wrote:<BR>Do we have to go with a secondary line?  Are we restricted with just 50 in the first tree?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Unfortunately, yes to both.

[MRRX]

<P>Visual guide for those reading without the game running - <A href="http://www.eq2ref.com/aa/index.php?class=Mystic" target=_blank>here.</A></P> <P></P> <HR> Crondar wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>on a side note...for what it's worth, i just got one rank in the melee line today, and i respected my old line and got 100% crit chance from the melee line...well....our new melee AP's crit everytime....so with crit dots and such, i assume that would up our dps quite a bit, but like i said, only got one rank in chilling strike so far, and not tested the dot ticks or whatever from the melee line, but with rank one, i critted for 550+ with chilling strike each hit,</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Friend, for the life of me I can't understand what you're telling us.</P> <P>Are you saying you can do something, that will then allow any picks from the new combat arts tree to crit 100% of the time ?</P> <P> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crondar wrote:<BR> <P>+50% sow +10% jboots= 60% run speed, and i can backup faster then a carept or horse now too, lol</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I like the idea of the SOW, but isn't it 20% base + 20% from AP's (ie, 4% times 5) = 40% ?      The horse/carpet nerf might bring back the days of "Can I get a SOW?"<BR></P> <P><A href="http://mrrx.wordpress.com/" target=_blank>MrrX's Character Journal</A></P>

[Crond]

<DIV>lol...ok...maybe i didn't word it correctly</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With the agil line crit melee maxxed...you get 100% melee crits, a crit every hit (assuming you hit it at all, which i normally do, cept like yellows and above), this also works with the new EoF melee line, so...with RANK 1, when i use chilling strike, i'm critting for 500+ each hit (this can also miss btw, but i haven't really noticed me missing much cept on 70+ mobs, and not a whole lot on those that i have fought).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also on the sow...it's 20% base +30% from rank 5 AP's ( the discription says 5% per, so probally should be +25%, but as of right now it's +30%) = 50%, add jboots and i'm running around at 60% run speed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Still doesn't make our new line any better...but I just thought it was an interesting observation, I thought I would share.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Crondar Spiritwalker</DIV> <DIV>70 Mystic of AB</DIV>

[MRRX]

<DIV>Great information.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Looks like I'm going the right way with the KOS AA's, I mostly have agility.      I think I know what I'm going to pick for our EOF tree - Combat arts mainly to squeeze out some DPS,  and fill out with buffs and the immunities.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It actually might work well for me, but I can see where all you raider-types are getting the shaft.      What could they change in the rez line, that would make spending points on rezzes worthwhile ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://mrrx.wordpress.com/" target=_blank>MrrX's Character Journal</A></DIV>

[Crond]

<P>also...not sure if it's understood or not...the new melee tree doesn't REPLACE our nukes, dots etc, but you can't use them both at the same time...good for groups or a raid, when ya don't wanna get into melee range, but still throw a dot or whatever at the mob.</P> <P>Also..i respeced the new ap line today, just messing around, i only have 9 ap's so could really do alot, i put 3 into chilling strike, 3 into feverish plague and 3 into the bear form one...just messing around with some green/blue mobs and with dogdog(nothing special in his line for extra damage, jus plain old dogdog) and i parsed around 350ish, as my highest dps, i'm using a blackscale maul also btw. nothing much...but better then what i WAS doing.</P> <P>Sidenote....each tic of the dot is also a crit everytime when using the feverish strike one, i'll assume the same for the glacial one, for now.</P> <P>I respeced back to rank 5 sow tho, lol....i'll play with it more as i get AP's</P> <P>Crondar Spiritwalker</P> <P>70 Mystic of AB</P>

[Ordate]

<DIV>*smacks forhead*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok Crondar lets look at some spell descriptions for a minute.  Your CA is doing 550 damage on a crit.  My wrath of the grey is doing 490-599 without critting or the mob being debuffed.  Ok so about the same.  You keep shoving points into the CA and you will be using the CA for a higher damage hit then what I do with wrath of the grey on a hit per hit basis (assuming similar str/int) IF you have the agility line in the shaman tree (remember this takes 4,4,8 of your points in the shaman tree on top of what you spend on the ca's in the mystic tree)  However, after you shove 5 points into the skill, your damage will end up being about 1.75 on a hit higher then the associated spell with a crit.  Now the downfall to this whole crit idea.  When you use your CA you have a thing called a recast time.  Its recast time is set up in such a way that your recast + cast + refresh time is exactly 2x that of a normal spell skill.  This means for an actual DPS improvement when you are trying to all out dps you would need to be able to do more then 2x the damage of a normal spell.  However, as pointed out above this is not the case.  Where the dps increase is coming from is the agility line in the shaman tree.  I can buy that now and spend my points on more useful areas weild a blackscale maul, and be pretty much at the same place as before.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The ca aa's are crap.  No if ands or buts.  The only reason to purchase them is because the rest of our tree is crap and you might as well get an occasional swing in that you wouldnt have otherwise in a raid possibly group situation.  Otherwise, you are investing way too many points into something for minimal to no gain.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[MRRX]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now the downfall to this whole crit idea.  When you use your CA you have a thing called a recast time.  Its recast time is set up in such a way that your recast + cast + refresh time is exactly 2x that of a normal spell skill.  This means for an actual DPS improvement when you are trying to all out dps you would need to be able to do more then 2x the damage of a normal spell.  However, as pointed out above this is not the case.  <BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Bah.     Well I can get buffs and immunities I guess.     Of all things, it sounds like the SOW ability is our best one.</P> <P>At least it's easy to see how they could tweak it and make it better - change the recast time on the combat arts to make the ability useful.</P> <P>What would be worth getting, though, would be a reduction in WARD casting time.     Replace the rez line with something like that for us !</P> <P><A href="http://mrrx.wordpress.com" target=_blank>MrrX's Character Journal</A></P>

[icetower]

<DIV>Yeah it's pretty uninspiring stuff overall, and the glacial strike actually says it ticks every 4 seconds ingame (could be a bug in the description) so its possibly worse than the spell.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I did however put a point  the ae line, and it's not too bad. Having a 1 second cast time on a 1k+ ae (100% crits) will firstly save on interrupts, and secondly I have found it is now worthwhile casting on single mobs, where I would normally never use the spell.  This is because the spell would take a total of 6 second casting and almost twice the mana to do the same damage. Just not worth it on a single mob.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I already had 3 points put into ursine augur to make up the 20 enhance, which connects to circle of the ancients now, so I didn't need to waste any on other melee to get to it. I think its definitely worth one point.</DIV>

[Crond]

<P>Well, I wasn't trying to cause any debate or anything, just throwing some info out, my wraith nuke isn't as much damage as yours as I don't raid and can't afford masters for the most part,</P> <P>As for me solo I seem to do a little more DPS</P> <P>in a group, i can go smack the mob REAL quick and at least do a little damage, while maintaining my concentration on keeping my group alive, as alot of times i'm the only healer in the group, which i manage to do pretty well in most cases.(unless your an over agroing mage or scout, then i tend to let you lay in the dirt, hehe).</P> <P>Overall tho, yeah our new stuff kinda sucks...but *shrug*...no worse off then we were before i guess.</P> <P>Crondar Spiritwalker</P>

[Baccalarium]

Over the past couple days, I've heard so many other classes say wow that will really healp after looking at their own aa ability panels.   But I look at the mystic one and can't see anything that is going to turn the tide in any but the most marginal of situations.  Bolster(noticable)Although the increase isn't that long,  this is a spell that gets continuous use,  so increasing its duration has some potential to have noticable gains.Avatar(useful)I suppose if your stuck in a DPS group instead of a MT group,   you can cast avatar on a scout and the extra int would help his poisons?  I can't see the wisdom benefit to the MT resists being all that substantial.Oberon(useful):Yes, if the power cost doesn't  go up,   then this boost gives more healing on low power which is when this spell most comes into play.   Its not an earthshattering improvement in the spell, but at least useful.Foretelling (useful)Yes this will get used, but it seems increadibly small boost.   I don't think anyone is going to notice it.Ursine(fun only)On any difficult content,  I'm not in meleee range.   Although lots of fun groups time meleeing with friends, so I'll enjoy the extra damage,  but still feels like a waste of AA.SOW(?):I do pull this up once in a great while,  but there's usually a scout or bard in the group to give much better run speed buf.   Maybe I should think of it as the safefall buf instead.   What equivalent safe fall does this give.  Will my group be able to follow the monk through nizarra without getting falling damage if I cast it on all?Shadowy Attendant(waste, seldom used)I use this but mostly like was stated earlier when I need a heal myslef in harder, or in those casual groups where I'm beating on the mobs with everyone else.  (You know the ones where even the mages are working on their melee skill)Ancestory(useful,  maybe even noticable)Long way from gettng there, but seems worth a shot considering that some of the steps getting there are useful.=========================================== =========Immunization( very nice)Preventing control effects for a modest time could be important part of many battles.   I will probably get this eventually.Cures(waste or useful?)Adding a ward to cures?   Does anyone know if these ward convert to a heal if they aren't used?.   In most cases I'm still goint to have to continue to cure the effects so the ward didn't save me much.   There are plenty of cases where the damage stops when the cure was cast so the ward doesn't get used.   Many of the important cures are not to prevent damage to but remove the debuff/mana drain/control effect,  the wards really won't help those either.   Guess those are the paths that I'm even speculating on.  Entire Rez line(waste):The number of times I'm doing an incombat rez and the amount of health power the player gets is meaningful are slim.    Entire melee line(waste):Could be fun if all I did was solo and casual groups,  but I'm generally not invited to a group for my melee prowess.  If its casual enough that I can have some fun poking the mob with a stick I wil, but when its time to do my job,   hitting the mob goes way down the list.Thanks for all the input,  I asked a few questions above, I hope I didn't miss answers already posted while I skimmed this long thread.<div></div>

[Eepop]

I think the combat line may have some promise, but if it does it will be 1) when leveling, and never having to buy the spell upgrades for those lines 2) when you've got all the combat AAs, and 100% crit from shaman AAs The main thing that the combat arts have over spells that havent been truly hit on yet is chance to hit vs a spells chance to be resisted.  The combat art I have so far seems to land marginally more often than my spell would.   If I had weapon mastery, it would probably be significantly more. I dunno.  Seems like it might work out, and we wont really know until we get some folks with enough points to test it out. <div></div>

[Dragonreal]

<div><blockquote><hr>Baccalarium wrote:SOW(?):I do pull this up once in a great while,  but there's usually a scout or bard in the group to give much better run speed buf.   Maybe I should think of it as the safefall buf instead.   What equivalent safe fall does this give.  Will my group be able to follow the monk through nizarra without getting falling damage if I cast it on all?<div></div><hr></blockquote>rethink that one hehe the best grp speed buff from bards is 34% and a possible AA boost of +12%, but I'm told that most only take half of that and only because it's a pre-req for something they actually want. That means that your 50% sow is the best in game aside from you having to cast it on each individual member (but that in itself has its own ups and downs.. downside that you have to cast it 6 times, upside that ppl don't need to stay close to you to keep the benefit of the buff).</div>

[Albiw]

<P>I have a few questions/comments on how some AA's work...  I'm not particularly happy about our AA choices in general but trying to make the best of it...</P> <P>- Does decreases the reused timer of rezzes also apply to ghastly savior (instant rez)?  That's the only way I could see it being a worthwhile choice</P> <P>- About the way the immunities skills are worded... does casting upgraded cure arcane (for example) have to actually cure an arcane effect for the ward to activate.  What is the ward amount by rank and duration?  (This is a noobish one) Would warding trauma mean warding crushing/piercing/slashing damage?  How does the warding effect on Ancient Balm work, given that it can cure are ailment types?  Basically, I could see this line being very useful or being total crap depending on exactly how they work.</P>

[Banditman]

If you lean toward "total crap" you'll be closer to the mark . . .<div></div>

[Triyton]

<DIV>Cures -- Could be a nice synergy between this and taking the cure enhancement on the Shaman AA line, especially if you are in a raid in the MT group and are the designated cure priest for the fight (or raid).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOW -- Most fun, but the so called Safefall component's detailed listing only reads as -5% per rank to the falling damage.  No actual increase in increase in distance that you can fall.  A free addition to an otherwise nice spell is about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Combat -- I wouldn't take it myself, but if I was a soloer and wanted it:  The reduced casting time would stop most interupts, and should leave more time for melee-strikes between casts.  For that matter if grouped, it would let me squeeze in nukes more easily between heals and cures.  But even if I wanted the combat line for either of those, not at the expense of downgrading from Masters </DIV>

[MRRX]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Banditman wrote:<BR>If you lean toward "total crap" you'll be closer to the mark . . .<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I must have missed the explanation about *why* they are total crap.</P> <P><A href="http://mrrx.wordpress.com" target=_blank>MrrX's Character Journal</A></P>

[Eepop]

For the most part, the effects that really need to be cured are debuffs, not damage.  Damage it is usually pretty easy to just heal through them (yes there are exceptions). So 80% of the time, you are curing because there is a debuff component to the effect. You cure it and you get a ward against that kind of damage. No more of that kind of damage is coming until the effect is put back on. The ward does nothing to block the incoming effect, and the debuff portion goes into full effect.  If there is some damage component, it is warded, but again, this is usually easy enough to heal through. At which point, you are needing to cure again to remove the debuff. Ergo....crap. <div></div>

[Banditman]

Bless you for saving me the typing . . .<div></div>

[MRRX]

<DIV>OK - that makes a lot of sense.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The burning question I have though is if the ward heals when it expires.       Having another healing ward has to be a good thing - without that feature I'm on board the *crap* train <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sheesh, you think that's a lot of typing, click my link bro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://mrrx.wordpress.com" target=_blank>MrrX's Character Journal</A></DIV>

[Eepop]

Now, if the trauma ward blocks melee damage(I dont know one way or the other), it would be slightly more useful.  But it would not be enough to save the line, since you can just take trauma and ignore the rest. <div></div>

[Banditman]

Specialty Wards . . . ie Prophetic Aegis, Exhaltation of the Untamed, Aegis of Faith . . . no healing on expiration.<div></div>

[Eepop]

True, but as the Templar Equivilent AA is just a plain ole reactive, theres a faint glimmer of hope.  Or maybe Templars just got lucky there. <div></div>

[Ordate]

<DIV>Unless it was changed sometime between the end of beta and live, the crap err I mean wards don't heal on expire.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[icetower]

<P>The Templar AA also requires the same type of damage to be done again in order to fire.</P> <P>I'ts essentially no different to ours.</P>

[SnAke19]

thanks for this completly useless treenow its probably more usefull for a raid to take two defilers with it than one mystcure wards: a jokeinmunity (against fear etc): much to short duration-too long recastcomplete rezz line: greater jokedmg line: nearly no difference from without itbuff line: some little usefull improvements nothing greatoberon barrier: completly useless without mt grpconclusion: before eof: good enough for ma grp - for mt grp defiler allways was the first choicewith eof: not sure if even good enough for ma - close to losing its sense in raiding<div></div>