Mystics way under powered

[DarkerElf1]

<DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Please SOE can you boost the DPS that we mystics can do.. I mean we are so under powered when it comes to damage it's not even funny. Our spells are some of the lowest when it comes to damage and even our healing isn't close to being the best. Sure we have wards and they do help but when you’re going solo from lack of not being able to find a group the XP gain is so incredibly slow.. I have a lvl 44 ratonga mystic and the other day I was cleaning out some old quest and I had the quest where you have to kill 25 giants in TS and it was taking me anywhere between 4-6 minutes per giant and the giants were between lvl 26-28 and grey to me. I wasn't healing because I didn't need to; all I was doing was using my weapon and spells and on average my damage was around 67-90. With the difference in lvls it shouldn't take that long to kill any grey mob. </FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Please SOE take a look at the damage we mystics do. I'm not asking for Mystics or any healing class to be the best DPS but I am asking for maybe a boost so that it doesn't take forever to solo mobs and gain XP.</FONT></SPAN></P></DIV>

[tebion]

<div></div>well, i know its the "good ole bottled answer", but the giants are heroic mobs ... even when grey they still are heroic.if we get an ability to kill them faster, we would gain the ability to solo them when they are not grey as well, which then would be on the road to getting overpowered.i mean, if it was implemented that all spells (in the whole game) do double damage on grey mobs, well, that would be something that could be considered, sure, but imo our dps is quite ok as it is (it can always become more but guess what happens if we start getting more dps than a normal templar? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)Just thinking about it while i write i already know something that could count against this idea though ... greefing lower level players that don't lock their encounter would be even easier with this stuff.edit: i dont want to be completely negative .. well, what quality are your damage spells, what are your AA's, did you use the dog and buff everything available via AA's? <div></div><p>Message Edited by tebion on <span class=date_text>07-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:19 AM</span>

[Loral]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DarkerElf1 wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>and even our healing isn't close to being the best. </FONT></SPAN></P> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Sorry, this made me laugh. You will see as you get levels what Torpor and Oberon can do when used intelligently. Also, remember that a big part of our healing comes from our powerful debuffs. Worry not about that particular part of your career.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>it was taking me anywhere between 4-6 minutes per giant and the giants were between lvl 26-28 and grey to me. </FONT></SPAN> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Don't forget that theses giants are heroics. Heroics have more HP. Also, giant type mobs tend to have more HP than another mob of the same level.</P> <P>Maybe your strategy is not optimal for DPS yet. How many AAs do you have? Are your nukes/DoTs Adept3? Do you have a powerful 2-hander? Were you using HOs with high-level spells? Do you have haste items?</P> <P>Even if the mob is gray, you still have to go throu all his HP, and unless you are aiming toward doing DPS, chances are your gear/spell/AA choices are not toward that aim.</P> <P>Enlighten us, we may help.</P>

[Banditman]

If you want to solo or do damage you have chosen the wrong class.  Sorry.Now, as a little update to the long running discussion about Mystic DPS . . . I recently did over 400 DPS in the MT group as a Mystic fighting Euktrzkai Amdaatk in Lab.  That doesn't include dogdog, just me.  Normal raid gear.  438 DPS.  If I had equipped Grizfazzles Mace and Mystical Orb of the Invoker I probably could have done a bit more.  If you add my dog's damage, I broke 500 DPS.On fights where healing isn't a big issue, I can typically maintain 200-300 DPS.On fights where healing is a big issue, I can typically take over be the #1 or #2 healer in the raid.So, I can do reasonable DPS, I can heal my butt off . . . ummmm . . . ok . . . . what was the problem again?<div></div>

[thedu]

<blockquote><hr>Banditman wrote:So, I can do reasonable DPS, I can heal my butt off . . . ummmm . . . ok . . . . what was the problem again?<div></div><hr></blockquote> Soloing BM. Your talking about having reasonable high end gear.  The problem, at least for me, as it stands is that while we may not be DPS, we do not have any other reasonable tools available to solo effectively. The heroics canard is getting tired. If your conjurer is capable of defeating those giants at a lower level then when those mobs are grey for a mystic, it means that there is a disparity.  <div></div>

[Shagg]

<div><blockquote><hr>Banditman wrote:If you want to solo or do damage you have chosen the wrong class.  Sorry.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Too right. You can solo as a mystic, but um I hope you got some time on your hands. The diversity of classes in this game are great. The idea that they should all perform equally in groups and solo, should be thrown right out.Due to my preference in playstyle I re-rolled a swash (then warlock, then bruiser, then dirge, then back to swash), but I still love taking my Mystic out for a spin. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />If I log in both Mystic and Swash and go lfg (2 different accounts) the mystic gets 6x or more the offers than the swash. Mystics are a huge boon for groups.Parse HPS, you'll see the power of the Mystic <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[jago quicksilver]

<div><blockquote><hr>thedump wrote:<blockquote><hr><div></div><hr></blockquote> Soloing BM. Your talking about having reasonable high end gear.  The problem, at least for me, as it stands is that while we may not be DPS, we do not have any other reasonable tools available to solo effectively. The heroics canard is getting tired. If your conjurer is capable of defeating those giants at a lower level then when those mobs are grey for a mystic, it means that there is a disparity.  <div></div><hr></blockquote>there is NO disparity... can a conjuror heal ANYWHERE close to what a mystic can? does a conjuror have wards, or ridiculously good debuffs? nope. play your class right and put in the time to get spells/gear, and any class could solo white con heroics when played right. comparing the solo ability of a DPS class to a healer class is just stupid, especially a pet DPS class, which since day one has been the best class for soloing.</div>

[Leji]

<DIV>In one sentence you say there is no disparity, all can solo the same with good skill/spell/gear,  then you say that conjurors actually do have a great edge on the other classes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Which is it?</DIV>

[Finora]

<DIV>He is saying that as far as class balance goes, there isn't really a big problem. Conjurers do not get the debuffs, heals , wards etc that mystics do. Mystics do not get the powerful pet and larger DPS that conjurers get.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now I can't say I can solo white heroics (I'd get my butt handed to me I know), but then again I prefer to duo so I am geared towards doing that not soloing.</DIV>

[ecoskii]

<DIV>emm - i had a look at my char, turns out a Mystic is a healer.  There is a clue there -- we heal don't dps in any shape or form.  I do not want 1 single point more dps for my mystic - we are fantastic healers and fun to play - if i want to kill stuff i just ask a guildie or any class to grp with me.  If you want to do:</DIV> <DIV>- dodgy healing and ok dps - roll a druid</DIV> <DIV>- ok healing and crap dps - roll a cleric <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>- excellent healing and average dps - roll a shammie</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The less class disparity there is the less fun there is in grouping - doesn't seem much point in playing a healer unless you want to heal/group.  Yes - sometimes it will take us longer to do some quests but I bet you we spend far less time lfg than all those poor little dps'ers.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you really have to, you can up your dps markedly using aa's and dogdog at the expense of some excellent raid skills (eg Immunities) or use damage shield and +stat potions - but i'd rather find a monk to beat the crap out of something for me <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>dps increases come way down my 'fix' list compared with STA v direct HP buffing.</DIV>

[NimSul]

<P>HO starter -> dot -> nuke /repeat</P> <P>Sounds to me like your not using HOs or something, using those 2 spells it cant possible take you 4-6 min to solo a grey heroic. I know im not a mystic but the damage part of the dot and nuke is the exact same for bouth shammies. You wont kill it in 30 sec but you for sure wont take 4-6 min doing it either.</P>

[Banditman]

<div></div>Here is the pattern I use to maximum DPS:Disease DoT, Cold DoT, Nuke, Slothful Spirit, Nuke, Wrath of the Ancients, Nuke . . . . . rinse, repeat.Use HO starter whenever it's up, drop Torpor in the slot of either Slothful Spirit or Wrath of the Ancients if you need a heal.Add Grizfazzles Mace, Bone Clasped Girdle and Mystical Orb of the Invoker if you are really serious about doing damage.If you don't have at least two of the three proc items, go for a 2H weapon with HUGE delay on it.In general, when casting spells for maximum damage, every other spell you cast needs to be your nuke.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Banditman on <span class=date_text>07-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:07 AM</span>

[Eepop]

<blockquote><hr>NimSul wrote:<div></div><p> it cant possible take you 4-6 min to solo a grey heroic. </p><hr></blockquote>Just playing devil's advocate, but if it was a healer it could take that long.  But then he would just be citing the worst case scenario, when he could probably go find some giants that take only 1-2 minutes. I certainly wouldnt mind if we got a slight boost in DPS, probably in a self damage shield or melee DPS fashion to limit the usefulness to soloing.  In all it seems like there is some invisible barrier in DPS where below it, it seems like hell, and once you break it, it gets much easier.  Templars and mystics seem to start out below that barrier, whereas most others start above it.  This accounts for the varying accounts from different mystics. So how do YOU get yourself over the hump? Adept 3/Master1/Master 2 Damage spells - Every single one, no matter how insignificant the improvement looks. Int gear - This won't look on spell examinations like you are doing much more, but we're in an every point counts situation. If you know you will be predominantly soloing, you can even sacrifice some wis in order to get the int. Good 2 handed weapon - I know it looks like the stats are so much better with a one hander/offhand...and I know the DPS does look like much difference by inspection.  It is a significant difference, just try it. Focus your AAs on anything that increases damage.  Int or Agility lines serve fairly well for this.<div></div>

[Banditman]

I forget what it's called, but there is a Legendary 2H Hammer with an 8 second delay that is just nuts - Mystic equipable.  Has like 48 INT on it too!  I've hit for over 1500 damage with it, and I've seen other Priests hitting for 1900.  If you push your melee crits to max, you're then hitting for 2000.Think of it this way:Let's say that the hammer averages 900 damage per swing.  I don't know what it is honestly, I don't get a chance to use it that much.  Every 8 seconds, 900 damage right?Glacial Flames (Master I) ticks twice in 8 seconds:  400-500 damagePlague (Master I) ticks twice in 8 seconds:  350 damageThe hammer is doing more damage than both your DoT's combined.<div></div>

[thedu]

Blackscale maul. I have more to say about this subject but I am heading out of town and will post later. <div></div>

[Eepop]

I have never heard of that, but I sure want it now, heh. Also, you could probably get the swing down to 6 seconds or so with Aura of haste and the Flowing Black Silk Sash. <div></div>

[Eepop]

<a href="http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/items/BlackscaleMaul.php" target=_blank>http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/items/BlackscaleMaul.php</a><div></div>

[Banditman]

That's the one.  I love that thing.I forgot that it had 48 Wisdom as well.  It's a really nice hammer, you probably won't see anything better short of a REALLY nice Fabled.The thing with that hammer is that it has a large enough "base" damage for the modifiers to really grab hold of and do something with.  You can smack mobs pretty good with it.And yea, I bet a Haste item plus Aura of Haste would make it really good.Mystics can do damage, we just have to work hard to do it.<div></div>

[MilkToa]

The BlackScale Maul is especially nice with the 100% critical melee hits in the AGI line. With 100% crits all of the melee hits are computed relative to the hammer's max damage.

[Birn]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>With mostly legendary gear with Blackscale maul equipped I can with some uninterupted HO's/nukes get just over 300 DPS solo. This is with adept III on my nukes/dots and 360'ish INT. I dont have AGI line so my doggie helps out with aditional 80 dps or so with my STR or INT line depending on what weapon I want to use for the fight, so.. maybe 400 total with me and doggie.Getting over 400 dps seems to be very hard, dunno if it's even possible with M1 with my gear, guess I need tons of more INT to break 400 dps and throw in a heal between the nukes tbh...<p>Message Edited by Birn on <span class=date_text>07-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:56 PM</span>

[Leji]

<DIV>The rellic chest piece is pretty nice also.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>95 extra damage to every ticks of Glacial Flames. An extra 30 dps right there when the dot is rolling.</DIV>

[Ordate]

<DIV>Sadly the blackscale maul has eluded my grasp.  Everytime it drops there happens to be another healer in the group and they win it...</DIV> <DIV>Now on to what I was actually posting about.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ignore the dps rating on weapons entirely as a mystic (or any other finger wiggler for that matter).  What you truely want for a weapon is one that has a delay = to most your spells (or greater depending on your available haste) and big damage.  This way you cast, swing for lots of damage, cast again instantly.  This puts the weapon in a state of "refreshing" while you are casting a spell.  This was why before LU13 melee's wanted big delay weapons.  They changed it so that melee's still autoattack while using combat arts.  The same is not true for casters.  So we still want those big damage slow weapons.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You also need to remember this while computing how much haste you would actually want with any given hammer/spear.  If we take the blackscale hammer for instance most the time as much haste as possible is a good thing as its delay starts out so large that 100% will put it down around your casting timers.  However, if you are using your prismatic 2.0 which if I remember correctly has a delay of 1.2 haste will not be increasing your dps if you are chain casting.  This is because while you may swing one per .6 seconds if you werent casting (100% haste) you in most cases should be nearly always casting.  Therefore the delay as it was and the new delay are not the actual delay you get while using the weapon and casting spells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now the one thing I have never tested which could make all this mute is if we can possibly reach a straight out melee dps which would be lowered by casting.  While I have my doubts it is always a possibility given enough haste, the right aa's,  and a [Removed for Content] out enough weapon.</DIV>

[Plomien]

<P>I went out clearing some old quests the other day with heroics I set auto attack and dog dog running went and did the dishes.</P> <P>I then set the next mob running and started hoovering i then set attack running on the next mob and as it died i just selected the next mob and continued like that.</P> <P>so if you want to get house work done and clear old quests the mystic is the best way to go <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[firewolf]

I played the defiler, the counterpart to mystics. No nuke just adept 1 dots. It only takes me 2 min to kill the level 40 ^^^ bouncer in Feerrott at 49. Soloed the whole quest. I doubt it will take you 4-5 min to kill the greyed out giants. I went down the wisdom line to get the pet proc. With just 12 AP, I can feel the dps improvement. I always keep debuffs on the mob to allow the dog to get more hits in hence more chance to trigger the proc. The pet proc do about 211-350 damage ( can crit for up to 405). My soloing gear mainly concentrate on wis, power, mitigation, sta and hp. Never really bother with int, hence only 93 compare to wis at 230.  My strategy is to maximise the dog damage. So far works very well. Probably will change as I level up, but for now it is good enough. <div></div>

[thedu]

<div></div><p>*************<b><font color="#ff0066">*I really hate these forum timeouts</font></b>************<span></span></p><p><font color="#ff9933"><span>DISCLAIMER: I am not asking for anything or any class to be nerfed. I shouldn't have to say this but unfortunately too many people don't understand the difference between a conversation and a denunciation.</span></font>Can gear make a difference? <font color="#ff0033"><span>Yes</span></font><font color="#ff0033">.</font>Can weapons make a difference?  <font color="#ff3333"><span>Yes</span></font>.Can spells types make a difference, i.e. Adept1 vs Master? <font color="#ff0066"><span>Yes</span></font>.I never originally intended to playe EQ2, but a friend roped me in again. Of course he left within six months and I continued playing because I enjoyed it still. The <font color="#ff0066"><b><u><span>original</span></u></b></font> intent for EQ2 was that all archetypes would have their differences but still <font color="#ff0066"><b><u><span>accomplish the same content</span></u></b></font> (epic excluded).  I started playing a Shaman because I always like theutility quailty of the class and the feeling that I could accomplish a lot soloing. Still I had resigned myself to finishing my quests when they were grey.  And prior to LU13 I could; I'm not saying I could do everything but I could do it within a reasonable way. </p> <p>My play style was already in line with the LU13 combat upgrade so I wasn't bothered by one bit. As most know, and as some have been pointing out, STR, AGI, INT did not mean they same to the priest archetype as it did to other classes. Consequently making these <b><u>almost</u></b> useless to us;  But my understanding was that once mobs were grey they could do less - meaning they couldn't hit as much or as well, and also be very easy to kill.  But much to my chagrin I found that I could not kill ^^^ mobs easily even with a 11 level difference. Did I have adequate gear, weapons, and spells? Yes, yes, and yes. At 52 I decided to try and finish three HQ's by killing Lord Everling. With a majority of MOB's being almost 20 levels below no sweat, right? No way.  Every named mobs especially the sisters took forever and often were hitting me well every once in a while. I had a 40 min fight with one of the paired sisters because she was casting a T1 cleric heal every 20 seconds. I had to literally wait for 20 minutes without attacking to regain power and do enough damage to stop her.The whole Heroic mob and healer vs dps arguments meant to push away these problems is bad logic.  If ^^^ heroic mob can be killed by another class <b><span>within</span></b> the 11 level range, and yet prove to be just as tough for a healer <b><span>after passing 11 levels</span></b>, well then this a huge disparity.  Certainly with Achievement Points there are viable options but for other classes they don't need AP's to solo effectively.<!-- [if !supportLineBreakNewLine] --><!-- [endif] --></p> <blockquote><div align="center"><hr size="2" width="100%"></div><p>tebion wrote:if we get an ability to kill them faster, we would gain the ability to solo them when they are not grey as well, which then would be on the road to getting overpowered.<font color="#996600"><span>When they are in the grey range? How is that being overpowered.</span></font></p><div align="center"><hr size="2" width="100%"></div><div align="center"><hr size="2" width="100%"></div><p>shaggis wrote:The idea that they should all perform equally in groups and solo, should be thrown right out.<font color="#996600"><span>Some classes work the same solo AND in groups.</span></font></p><div align="center"><hr size="2" width="100%"></div><div align="center"><hr size="2" width="100%"></div><p>jago wrote:there is NO disparity... can a conjuror heal ANYWHERE close to what a mystic can? does a conjuror have wards, or ridiculously good debuffs? nope. play your class right and put in the time to get spells/gear, and any class could solo white con heroics when played right.comparing the solo ability of a DPS class to a healer class is just stupid, especially a pet DPS class, which since day one has been the best class for soloing.<span><font color="#996600">They don't need heals or debuffs, and still accomplish the same content </font><font color="#996600"><b><u>effectively</u></b></font><font color="#996600">. I know how to play a Mystic and if you can solo a ^^^ white con heroic with nothing more than your gear, weapons, spells and NO achievement points and No potions, then I will give you a plat.</font></span></p><div align="center"><hr size="2" width="100%"></div><div align="center"><hr size="2" width="100%"></div><p>cloudyspam wrote:emm - i had a look at my char, turns out a Mystic is a healer.  There is a clue there...dps increases come way down my 'fix' list compared with STA v direct HP buffing.<font color="#996600"><span>It's not about becoming a DPS class, its the fact that we don't have effective tools available aside from grouping to accomplish content.</span></font></p><div align="center"><hr size="2" width="100%"></div></blockquote><p>For me <font color="#ff3366"><span>Soloing</span></font><font color="#ff3366"><span> effectively</span></font> isn't simply about killing mobs, but about accomplishing the content within the game. If one or more classes have ability to do this without having to worry about gear, spell levels, weapons or achievement points then that's big inequality to me. Increasing gear, weapons and spells only go so far when the code in the game don't have the requisite modifiers. To be honest I don't really care all wether or not we get a DPS increase or not; I just get tired of the same stupid logic behind the Heroics, and dps vs hearler canards.By the way the giants in TS can heal themselves and this maybe the reason the OP was having a hard time killing them. </p> <p>Ordate you can purchase the Blackscale Maul on the market. </p> <div></div>