Given the Str Mystics have......

[Nregnen]

Now, perhaps it's just me......Given the Strength that mystics have shouldn't we be able to hit for much more damage than we are now?  Example......In the lower 50's I tested this with my Pally friend, he equiped a similar dmg rating weapon, and we both just auto-attacked something.  On average he was hitting for 5X's as much as me.  Now, if you ask me I think that if I have MORE strength than someone, and we have the same dmg-rating weapons, that I should be hitting for more yes?  Now given, we're healers not fighters, therefore we do not know the finer points of how to use a weapon, but that's what fighter abilities are.  Basically your strength is you UGG SMASH! ability so if you have a high strength you should be able to hit hard initially, IF you hit, yes?  Because our buffs are all Str/Sta and other classes get buffs to Wis, which actually helps them, how come we don't benefit from our buffs?  My argument here is that Mystics should be allowed to do the damage equivalent to the Strength that we have as a way to make up for our lack in other wis buffs for ourselves as healers.  Along the same note, by doing this it would also make more sense in taking the Str AA line.  Myself I initially took the Wis line for the symbol heal buff and the alacrity buff at the end of the line.  Now based on all I've read in the forum it appears that we're basically FORCED to use the Str line should we ever wish to actually use our pet.  Personally i don't use him because it's just a waste of time and it dies if something so much as breaths on it.  If we're going to be forced to take the Str line.....which we don't need already...at least let us benefit from the strength and do something so that we can at least use our pets if we choose to take another line besides Str.  I don't want a summoner pet by any means, but at least just give it more HP's I say, it doesn't have to hit harder or have a higher AC, just more HP's so it doesn't die in ONE hit.Am I alone on this or are there others that feel similarily?  This is my only beef with this class, and one i've had for quite some time, but everything else I feel is great.<div></div>

[Kainsei]

Hello,I don't really know about mystics since my main is a monk and I only have a low lvl defiler but...When it comes to hit something, yes, strenght does matter but you must have to raise your crushing/piercing/slashing skills. If not you won't be able to hit hard. Since a caster doesn't use these skills, they must be pretty low at lvl 70 (like 100/350), I don't know if it worth spending hours hitting grey mobs to raise them up.<div></div>

[Leji]

<DIV>Actually, shamen usually have maxed melee skills : we fight toe to toe with the mobs when we solo and it doesn't take much soloing to raise the skills every levels.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's just a class thing for the sake of game balance. Even at equal skills, a priest will do less damage than a melee class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our strenght lies somewhere else. We heal our allies and cripple our foes, but tank poorly and do marginal to subpar damage. That is what is being a priest. Duh.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To think "i am strong, therefore i should hit hard" makes sense but wouldn't work too well with the whole gameplay balance thing.</DIV> <DIV>Strenght does influence your melee prowess, but other things have much greater influence on it, namely your skills, own level vs mob level and your class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What our great strenght give us is the ability to carry around 6 strongboxes as cheap yet large backpacks. In itself that something pretty cool if you ask me, but it really doesn't do much more than that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh, and about the pet.</DIV> <DIV>Yeah, the STR line is pretty much an absolute requirement, but it's well worth it.</DIV> <DIV>My pet is a steady 150dps that also heals like a beast. It lives trough raids and, unless i die myself, i pretty much never have to summon the thing, and i do send it to battle against every single mobs i fight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our pet gets much much better as we throw AA's at it to improve it. Have faith in your puppy, someday he will be one good strong dog.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Lejina on <span class=date_text>06-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:47 PM</span>

[Finora]

<P>As a priest I believe your attack rating (one of the numbers above mitigation) will be lower in general than any fighter or scouts.</P> <P>I can't confirm this because I've never really looked at other people's attack number. I've honestly never really paid attention to how much everyone other than me was hitting for, have other's hits turned off in my combat chat. But suffice it to say STR isn't going to do a whole lot for a priest in the damage department.</P> <P>Any priest that doesn't have their melee skills maxed for their level either just leveled or has been slacking. It's so very easy to get it up and never requires even thinking about grey mobs or even soloing. Just join the fight with your group instead of hanging back like a ninny. Couple of minutes is all it would take.</P> <P>I will happily second the str line is wonderful. I love my dog and don't spend anytime without him up and running and fighting beside me, it's been that way since I got him though. Before you get far into the aa's having a pet is takes some getting used to, but once you get the hang of him with his strengths and weaknesses, he's a wonderful addition to the class.</P><p>Message Edited by Calendri on <span class=date_text>06-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:11 AM</span>

[Banditman]

If you feel the need to see big numbers get a two handed weapon with an obscene damage rating on it.  I've got some two handed hammer from HoF or something and it hits for 1500 pretty consistently.Granted, the delay is 8 seconds, but that works good for me as I can cast in between swings.<div></div>

[Karlen]

>>Actually, shamen usually have maxed melee skills : we fight toe to toe with the mobs when we solo and it doesn't take much soloing to raise the skills every levels.<<The difference is partly that fighters can buff their skills beyond "max".  I have a mystic and a paladin.  My mystic has his crushing skill at the maximum for his level (or at least crushing is).   My paladin has her slashing skill at about 40 points over the maximum for her level due to various abilities (such as +33 from her offensive stance and further plusses from AAs and/or items).If my Paladin switches to her defensive stance (which gives a minus to slash, rather than a plus), her damage goes way down.<div></div>

[Nregnen]

Lajina....  ya, i actually have been using strongboxes as bags for quite some time nowColendr....  my skills are maxed as you say, and thanks for the input on the AABandit....  sounds cool, might have to look into that....Zotar....  That makes sense.Well, i guess it was just me then, everyone seems fairly contented about that concerning str.  I knew that because we were a priest class we aren't supposed to do lots of melee dmg(duh) but was wondering specifically about the Str and how that affected it(or didn't).  Still doesn't really clear up my worries about the AA though.  Str line sounds great and all, I thought about doing a respec to that line, but i'm stubborn and onery, and will probably stay in the wis line just to spite it.  I still think there should be a few more HP's in the pet so it doesn't die in 1 hit when you're soloing, but oh well, that's life.  Thanks for all the input all.<div></div>

[Terq]

<DIV>The strength line is great, if your game play suits it.  Str AA is great for raiding & grouping, but if you are looking to enhance your soloability, it doesn't really give you that much.  While mystics are not one of the better solo classes, if you are dead set on it, try the Agi line, and max out one of the pet's attacks.  That should shore up the dps a bit. </DIV>

[SonnyA]

<P>Speaking of DPS. I parsed my solo DPS with the strength line and wisdom line (rabies). Total I think I had about 125 DPS, which isn't that great. I just used Glacial Flames (Ad3), Plague (M1) and Wrath of the Grey (M1) and the occational autoattack.</P> <P>Even if I doubled that DPS, I would still be puny compared to just about every other class out there.</P>

[Banditman]

Rabies is on the INT line.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Eepop]

I got up a little above 200 with -100% Melee Crit from Agility line -Legendary 2hand spear I bought off the broker...79 Damage rating i think -DogDog -8 points in Phalanx combat art from agility line -Avatar on myself -Adept 3: Wrath of Grey, Glacial Flames, Plague -Master 2: Wrath of the Ancients -Imbued Str & Int rings I think a mystic could do some okay damage with full agility line and the rest of your AA in wis or int lines. <div></div>

[SonnyA]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Banditman wrote:<BR>Rabies is on the INT line.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Hm, then it might have been the INT line. I recently respecced (after reading YOUR post <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. It's the line with Ritual. A skill which I never used. I can't give up my nice HoF shield.</P> <P>I just remember that Dogdog had 6% chance to inflict some instant 400-600 damage to the target.</P> <P>Now it's Virulence.</P>

[SonnyA]

<P>What's the target? I can go home and reparse.</P> <P>How about those Ashengaze basilisks outside dreadnever crash site? They're level 64-65 I think. That should give some nice numbers.</P>

[Terq]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SonnyA wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>Hm, then it might have been the INT line. I recently respecced (after reading YOUR post <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. It's the line with Ritual. A skill which I never used. I can't give up my nice HoF shield.</BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I just remember that Dogdog had 6% chance to inflict some instant 400-600 damage to the target.</P> <P>Now it's Virulence.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yeah, what you are describing is the Wisdom line.  The skill after Ritual gives the dog a chance to proc the direct damage.  Each point is an additional 3% chance (like aura of warding) up to a max of 24%.  </P> <P>I thought about going the wis line route, but after learning (/hattip Bandit) that Immunities provided resists to each type of (nonphysical) damage, I am going with the Intellegence line.<BR></P>

[Banditman]

I believe the ability after Ritual is called Ritualistic Aggression, and it is a pet damage ability.  This is the Wisdom line.The difference I believe is that Ritualistic Aggression is a single target damage ability and Rabies is an unlocked AE ability.<div></div>

[Mystiq]

No you're not alone. I think our melee damage is pathetic, and buffing our strength to the cap has little effect on our damage output. I recently respec'd to max melee crits and try out tribal rage, and I was less than impressed. Seeing every hit crit is kinda cool, but the novelty wears off fast when you realize you haven't really bumped yourself up anywhere on the dps charts. I didn't care for Ritualistic Aggression much either. I think that skill is bugged as it seem sto proc WAY less than you'd expect given the % chance, especially when max'd.I guess I'm just of the mind that making large adjustments to your abilities and stats should make more of a difference, no matter what class  you are. If I'm not mistaken, we can self-buff our strength higher than a Guardian can...but for what? To carry a bunch of strongboxes? It certainly doesn't equate to much else in practice, even if it's supposed to in theory.<div></div>

[Banditman]

Yep.  I could carry 6 strong boxes if I chose to.<div></div>

[SonnyA]

I did some tests with the basilisks near Dreadnever. My dps was between 280 and 325, when I meleed with Grizzfazzle mace. Kindda pathetic.

[Banditman]

If you're looking to maximize DPS I'd go for Grizz + Mystical Orb of the Invoker (collection quest) + Bone-Clasped Girdle (Heritage).There are also raid dropped items that proc on hostile spells, but those are likely out of reach for most people.  Even in a raiding guild, there would be heavy competition from Mages for those type items.<div></div>

[Karlen]

<div><blockquote><hr>Banditman wrote:Yep.  I could carry 6 strong boxes if I chose to.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Until you die and your buffs drop...  I used to carry 6 strongboxes until I started mentoring a lot.  When mentoring below 20-25, I would be slowed quite substantially due to the lower efficacy of my buffs.</div>

[Banditman]

*shrug*I can count on zero hands the number of times I've mentored down.<div></div>

[Eepop]

The +str does have a decent effect on the Phalanx ability from the Agility AA line.  Unfortunately, one ability does not make a big difference overall, especially one on a 30 second recast. I would consider trading in our single target nuke for another combat art if I could. <div></div>

[Banditman]

You're trading 100 DPS away there . . . <div></div>

[Eepop]

<blockquote><hr>Banditman wrote:You're trading 100 DPS away there . . . <div></div><hr></blockquote>Well obviously what I would hope to get would be higher DPS than the nuke, considering the reduction in range of spell vs combat art.<div></div>

[Banditman]

That's not the way it works.  Range has nothing to do with damage output.Should a Troubador do more damage just because he stands right next to the mob while a Wizard stands at range?The main problem with Mystic DPS is that so much of it is "invisible" that we take it for granted.Let's say a Mystic and a Troubador are going to kill a solo mob with 10k HP.  The Troubador is probably going to clock in around 300-350 DPS on that mob, killing it in 29 to 33 seconds.The Mystic on the other hand is going to clock in with a DPS in the 200-250 range.  Most people would say that it is going to take that Mystic 40-50 seconds to do the job.  Most people would be wrong.You see, the Mystic will use his invisible DPS.He pulls with Wail of the Ancients and follows with Eidolon.  You don't actually "see" those damage numbers anywhere, but now the Mystic is fighting a mob with only 8k HP.  He finishes his kill in 32 to 40 seconds.Now, you've got a Mystic, a Priest, killing mobs within just a few seconds of the time it takes a Scout to kill a mob.  I'm not sure how much more DPS you can expect as a Priest before that Troubador deserves to heal.Let's not even get into the Fury arguement here.  I think everyone (except the Devs) realizes that Furies are ridiculously overpowered.<div></div>

[Mystiq]

I'd rather have better damaging spells and achievements than more combat oriented damage. We are priests. Spells make up the vast majority of our utility, just like mages, so I'd like to feel more like a powerful caster once in a while. Our melee proc in our bear (and the druid's wolf form) form was removed long ago, yet recently our melee damage was increased accross the board. Anyone else kinda confused? After the proc nerf it kinda felt like we weren't supposed to focus on melee really at all, yet now it's as if someone's trying to pass priests off as melee dps capable, which simply isn't the case.Our dots are pathetic. Our one DD nuke is too. I say take away the near useless melee crit achievement and give us something that improves our spell damage similar to whatever mages get. Let us stay behind the scenes and out of the god forsaken AE.<div></div>

[Sokolov]

<div><blockquote><hr>Zotar99 wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Banditman wrote:Yep.  I could carry 6 strong boxes if I chose to.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Until you die and your buffs drop...  I used to carry 6 strongboxes until I started mentoring a lot.  When mentoring below 20-25, I would be slowed quite substantially due to the lower efficacy of my buffs.</div><hr></blockquote>I have this problem too.  Thus why I no longer carry strongboxes.As for STR = Damage, that's just silly from a roleplay prespective.  Strength does not mean you can do damage.  You have to know how to use the strength, especially when you are fighting mobs which are as strong if not stronger than you, sometimes with scales and armor, etc.</div>

[Nregnen]

so why the plus 150 str self buff?  what's the point to that? and also BUMP as someone just started this same topic and it was already started.  The whole point of the argument is why the SELF strength buff if we can't use it?...ie no more maul...no melee dmg.. etc...  I totally agree about knowing HOW to use your strength but that is what combat abilities are for.  Your raw power to bludgeon something is still the same, you just can weild a sword to any combat finesse. <div></div>