Wards, broken?

[Birn]

From the defiler board: <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=20&message.id=8692" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=20&message.id=8692</a>Noticed this while playing last night, it might be server specific problem (Runnyeye) or certain attacks, will check tonight and see.<div></div>

[thedu]

<div></div>Yeah, I noticed this twice now, and only during soloing though.<div></div><p>Message Edited by thedump on <span class="date_text">03-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:12 AM</span></p>

[Aringt]

<div></div> If you look down at the post Warrior hit through ward, you will see that on 2/27/06 I responded to that post. Wards have been bugged at least a few days before that. I wish Sony would respond to this. It really blows when you put your ward up and the monster hits you for full damage. On the plus side you don't have a huge penalty from dying as this bug has cost me and group mates a few lives. I hope it gets fixed soon.

[Aesdyn2]

I spoke with a dev about this briefly. The spells team is aware of the issue but it would help if we (mystics) could try to figure exactly what is casuing the issue. Any particular classes in the group, buffs that are running that seem to affect it ect ect.

[Arfiniel]

<div></div><p>At first I thought it was a stacking issue (that is, my own wards don't stack), which does seem to also be part of the problem, just not all of it.  For example, if a single target ward went on first to the tank, then the group ward went on, the group ward was completely ignored when the mage got hit.  If the group ward went on first, it worked.  They just didn't stack.</p><p>However, I later was in another group where I was only using the group ward because of this issue.   I was the only one in the group that had wards of any kind.  The tank's health went down about 50 percent, yet the group ward was still up.  It just wasn't working.  It does not always happen that way.  Sometimes the ward works like it is supposed to.  Sometimes damage leaks through anyway.  So perhaps it is a buff... perhaps it is OUR buff that has the group regenerating ward since wards don't seem to stack anymore.  I have not thought to try to remove that buff to see if the leakage disappears.  I will try that tomorrow.</p>

[Sillililygirl]

I watched last night in CT with a group working on finishing the Screaming Mace....I had no issues with my wards.<div></div>

[Temerarius]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Arfiniel wrote:<div></div><p>However, I later was in another group where I was only using the group ward because of this issue.   I was the only one in the group that had wards of any kind.  The tank's health went down about 50 percent, yet the group ward was still up.  It just wasn't working.  It does not always happen that way.  Sometimes the ward works like it is supposed to.  Sometimes damage leaks through anyway.  So perhaps it is a buff... perhaps it is OUR buff that has the group regenerating ward since wards don't seem to stack anymore.  I have not thought to try to remove that buff to see if the leakage disappears.  I will try that tomorrow.</p><hr></blockquote><p>I'm seeing the same issue. It appears as though some DoTs are not doing a Ward check.</p><p>For example, lastnight, I warded the main tank (Aegis Master II), and then watched her HP to continue to drop like a rock <em>even though the Ward was still active.</em></p><p>I've noticed it soloing as well, I'll be doing my thing, Ward up, beating on the bad guy and look over at my half empty HP bar.. with my Ward still up.</p>

[Finora]

<div>I noticed this for the first time last night while I was soloing. It happened several times actually. I cast my group ward before pulling and cast my single target just before the group ward would have expired. My single target was completely ignored after the group ward went down. I tried it again just to see. Same thing. I tried with my single target first and recasting the single target. Same thing. I didn't do single then group, but I bugged what I did find with the others.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Shiss]

<div></div><p>Happened to me Last night in Halls of Fate.</p><p>Shadowknight tank, 9600 HP, 3790 Mitigation, 57.6% avoidance.</p><p>Cast the group ward he goes to pull.  His hitpoints start to drop as soon as he starts coming back, Ward it still up.</p><p>had 3 wipes due to wards not stopping the damage on pulls on the tank.  Something is majorly wrong, might be the dot mitigation</p><p>or someother attack that is ignoring wards all together.</p><p>Devs, Please please look into this one as it is becoming a issue very rapidly.</p>

[Cyanrav]

<div></div><p>Wards are DEFINATLY broke!! I did a solo instance in Maj Dul (Coin instance) went in with normal buffs for a 55, Slapped down Aegis (Master II of course) and promptly got the kimchee kicked out of me. EVERYTHIGN went through the ward, poison, hits you name it!!</p><p>/sigh</p><p>I of course petitioned AND bugged, love that, "We are aware of the issue" answer have a nice day /tap. I am getting board with being the red headed step child of Sony</p><p>Cyanravyn</p>

[Banditman]

Folks, you've got to understand Wards a little bit better to help.  Yes, there is a problem with Wards not absorbing damage.  It's a bug the developers are aware of.However, there are some clear examples of misunderstanding the nature of Wards in this thread.  Here is how Wards work, minus the current bugs regarding them.Let's say you pre-Ward yourself.  This creates a Ward on your character.  Think of it like a second skin that exists right over your own skin, but under your armor.  I don't care what the graphics look like, or what the descriptions say.  Wards come from the outside in the world and are then laid over top your skin.  Wards do not come from inside you.  This is really, really important to understand.So, any blows that come are first mitigated by your armor.  This is a fairly recent change.  Wards haven't always done that.Now, in the case of a DD blow - be it spell, melee, whatever - the blow impacts the Ward after it's gone through your mitigation.  The Ward either has enough strength to absorb the entire blow or it doesn't.  If it has more than enough strength, it absorbs the blow and stays in place.  If not, it absorbs and passes any extra damage over it's ability to absorb to the HP pool.DoT's are different!A DoT is a persistent effect.  When it is cast on you, it just sits there on top of the Ward - your second skin - ticking away damaging this second skin.  So long as there is enough strength in the Ward to absorb the next tick, there is no damage passed to the HP pool.  The DoT just ticks on the Ward slowly eating it away.The difference here is that the DoT is persistent and not attached to the Ward.When you cast a refresher Ward - you know your current Ward is getting low in HP and you want a stronger Ward up - the old Ward simply disappears.  The problem is that the only thing keeping that DoT off your skin was the Ward.  The new Ward comes from out in the world, but before it does, the DoT is dropped on your skin.  Now, the new Ward will prevent any FUTURE damage from coming in, but because it came from out in the world, and not from inside your body, it's sitting there with the DoT "under" it.  The DoT will now do damage directly to your HP pool because it's been dropped on your skin.This is why a Ward caster must be far more aware of persistent effects than a reactive or regen caster.  Fortunately, we have the tools to deal with it above what others might have.<div></div>

[Shiss]

<div></div><p>From what I saw last night it is more like, if you have 800 HP of ward left on a group ward and the mob does 1400 damage, your tank takes 1400 damage and the ward stays up.</p><p>Instead of burning up the last 800 and him taking 600 damage.</p><p>But that is just a observation as I was trying to figure out what was going on, while my group was dying all around me.</p>

[Cyanrav]

<div></div><div>Now Bandit, Note the log, I was getting hit through the wards. There was no poison etc. Just hits at this point.</div><div>I REMEMBER when Wards did not use mitigation, and I remember the great Mystic STEALTH nerf of our slow, I remember the MONTHS it took the Devs to fix our Wards. If fact, it wasn't until the great Update in what September? Or was that NOVEMBER of last year. We played broken for MANY months.  I'm a solo'er, I occasionally group. Other than some gritchiing here and there, I've basically put and shut up. But to be perfectly honest with you, the thought of playing this game for ANOTHER 6 months with a broken character just ain't floatin' me boat /nods</div><div> </div><div>(1142474324)[Wed Mar 15 17:58:44 2006] <strong><font size="4">You prepare a strange ancient ritual.</font></strong>(1142474324)[Wed Mar 15 17:58:44 2006] A Maj'Dul resident looks dreadfully lethargic!(1142474324)[Wed Mar 15 17:58:44 2006] A Maj'Dul resident begins to play an impairment song.(1142474325)[Wed Mar 15 17:58:45 2006] Your target is too far away!  Move closer!(1142474325)[Wed Mar 15 17:58:45 2006] YOUR ward absorbed 65 points of damage!(1142474325)[Wed Mar 15 17:58:45 2006] <strong><font size="4">a Maj'Dul resident hits YOU for 18 points of crushing damage.</font></strong>(1142474325)[Wed Mar 15 17:58:45 2006] a Maj'Dul resident tries to confound YOU with Reproaching Discante, but YOU resist.(1142474326)[Wed Mar 15 17:58:46 2006] An impairment song affects Poof.(1142474326)[Wed Mar 15 17:58:46 2006] Poof hits a Maj'Dul resident for 79 points of crushing damage.(1142474326)[Wed Mar 15 17:58:46 2006] YOU try to pierce a Maj'Dul resident, but miss.(1142474326)[Wed Mar 15 17:58:46 2006] a<strong> Maj'Dul resident hits YOU for 67 points of crushing damage</strong>.(1142474327)[Wed Mar 15 17:58:47 2006] <strong>a Maj'Dul resident hits YOU for 65 points of crushing damage</strong>.(1142474329)[Wed Mar 15 17:58:49 2006] You bellow an ancient howl towards A Maj'Dul resident!(1142474329)[Wed Mar 15 17:58:49 2006] A Maj'Dul resident feels vulnerable!(1142474329)[Wed Mar 15 17:58:49 2006] You bellow an ancient howl towards A Maj'Dul resident!(1142474329)[Wed Mar 15 17:58:49 2006] A Maj'Dul resident feels vulnerable!(1142474329)[Wed Mar 15 17:58:49 2006] YOUR ward regenerates 65 points of ward absorption(1142474329)[Wed Mar 15 17:58:49 2006] YOUR ward absorbed 65 points of damage!(1142474329)[Wed Mar 15 17:58:49 2006] a Maj'Dul resident hits YOU for 74 points of crushing damage.(1142474329)[Wed Mar 15 17:58:49 2006] YOU try to pierce a Maj'Dul resident, but a Maj'Dul resident parries.(1142474330)[Wed Mar 15 17:58:50 2006] Poof hits a Maj'Dul resident for 76 points of crushing damage.(1142474331)[Wed Mar 15 17:58:51 2006] a Maj'Dul resident's Jab hits YOU for 51 points of crushing damage.(1142474331)[Wed Mar 15 17:58:51 2006] You are struck by a crushing blitz.</div><div> </div><div>I just pulled up a portion of the log. Plainly, wards are NOT working period in this instance. According to this log, I placed the ward at 17:58:44 2006, the first hit took me at 15 17:58:45, now, I know wards go away after a bit of time, but one second? No, I'm seeing a SERIOUS problem here.</div><div> </div><div>I can post the whole log if anyone wants. Or, I can send it to someone /shrug either or.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[tebion]

eerrrmm, cyan, you should re-read the postings againall, especially banditman already said that the wards are broken, the developers know it, too already (although they need our help narrowing the search for the bug).what banditman meant in his posting is, that there is one behaviour of wards that could be seen as additional bug (on top of the bug all already know) but is no bug ... exactly when you are dotted and apply your ward <u>afterwards</u>, where the ward does not ward the dot-damage.one is a bug, the other is a "feature"i hope thats clearer now <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[erinn]

<div></div><p>From that log, it almost looks like your Runic Aegis (or whatever lower version of that spell line) is the only ward working on you.   It absorbed 65 points, then you took the leftover damage...mob kept hitting you...then it regenerated for 65 more points, and the mob hit you, you took the leftover again...</p><p>So perhaps wards aren't stacking at all, and Runic Aegis keeps in effect overwriting bigger wards with it's puny one? </p><p>Just tossing out the idea...</p>

[Shiss]

<div></div><div></div><p>Perhaps you are on to it.  If they broke the stacking of group wards to our Buff that provides a smaller ward (very small) then even trying to cast a group ward or single target ward wouldnt stack.</p><p>But still getting a symbol that it is there, though they are not stopping any damage at all.</p><p>(Adding this to the post as well, that would show when I allow the tank to get hit one time before placing my group ward on him on a pull, and him not taking any damage vs trying to pre-ward like I normally do and the group ward doing absolutely nothing.  Halls of Fate showed this to be a hard row to hoe, as the encounters hit for 2-3k right up front and you have to have the group ward up to handle this or your tank drops like a sack of potatos...)</p><p>Message Edited by Shissan on <span class="date_text">03-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:54 AM</span></p>

[Godflower]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>I noticed this for the first time last night with a full group in the Tables.  My single ward icon would be up, the the tanks health would dip.  All of my buffs were up.  It actually happened quite often.  Tank was a guardian and a templar was in the group as well. </p><p>Noticed it again on March 18th.  Full raid 64x4 in a PoF zone.  Group was totally different - Fury, Pally, Warden, Mage type & another tank.  The group ward icon would be up but the tanks health would plummet.  </p><p>Message Edited by Godflower on <span class="date_text">03-19-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:17 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Godflower on <span class="date_text">03-19-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:18 PM</span></p>

[Banditman]

A simple cure is much more effective in HoF.Yes, the mobs in there hit hard.  REALLY hard.However, the most insidious thing about that zone is the persistent effects, particularly Trauma.If your tank shows Trauma, the single most important thing you can do is remove that.  There are several nasty Trauma effects in there, but the most important one is Debilitate.  It's a physical mitigation debuff that runs about -4500.Yes, I typed that correctly.Minus forty five hundred mitigation.It turns your tank into a Mage for mitigation purposes.Ancient Balm is your friend.<div></div>

[Cyanrav]

<div></div><p>Tebion, I reread the log, and your right, it looks like the 65 from the Runic line kicked in. I'll drop that and give her a try next week. Kids and finals don't make for good play time for checking stuff out.</p><p> </p>

[tebion]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Cyanravyn wrote:<div></div><p>Tebion, I reread the log, and your right, it looks like the 65 from the Runic line kicked in. I'll drop that and give her a try next week. Kids and finals don't make for good play time for checking stuff out.</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>that was erinn, not me <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></div>

[Shiss]

<div></div><p>Yep always keep my tank clean of any effects from any spells all the time bandit.</p><p>Was still happening as in, he is getting hammered with damage and My group ward just stays up the full 30 seconds unless I recast it and then it starts to work.</p><p>Hmmm I will try a few different things tonight that might help, dropping our mitigation spell and seeing if our wards work correctly is a start from alot of people.</p><p>Will bug report tonight after testing.</p><p> </p>

[thedu]

Just wanted to say that whenever it happened to me each time it was Crushing damage.<div></div>