What should I choose at level xx? - Answers inside (and why to pick the M2 haze over the ward at 54)

[SonnyA]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div>Hi all</div><div> </div><div>Some of the general questions that are always being asked, are the ones about enemy mastery choices and ofcourse the class specific Master 2 training choices.</div><div> </div><div>This is what I've learned is a pretty good course for a mystic. Each with a quick comment attached.</div><div> </div><div><strong>Master 2 choice</strong></div><div>14 - Wards of Spirit (the group ward has SO much more potential)24 - Keening Haze (the ward is obsolete at level 26. Haze will last a lifetime)34 - Spiritual Healing (Healing is good. The other choices are bad)44 - Umbral Ritual (again, much more ward in the group version)54 - Weeping Haze (The 'harder to resist' bonus makes this the obvoius choice)64 - Lethargy (The 'harder to resist' bonus makes this the obvious choice)</div><div> </div><div>A Master 1 is pretty close to Master 2, so if you already have a Master 1 version of the spell, feel free to pick something else.</div><div><strong>Enemy mastery choice</strong>12 - Gnolls (Antonica, Thundering Steppes and Splitpaw is gnoll infested)16 - Skeletons (You can't throw a rock anywhere without hitting a skeleton)24 - Giant (Always giants)32 - Goblin (EL + Runnyeye and PoF is crawling with them)38 - Lizardman (They show up in all tiers. Or Nightbloods which are good prey for the disease DoT line, for the soloer).52 - Harpy (You'll be killing more of those than the other)62 - Ravasect (you can pick whatever you want. But Ravasects are higher level than the other, so it'll last longer)</div><div> </div><div>I know that my level 54 Master 2 pick is controversial, as most of you will recommend the ward over the haze. But I think my reasoning is pretty strong. If your haze is adept 3, you'll have it resisted quite often against orange and red mobs. This is NOT the case with the Master 2. The mobs resist rate is simply much much higher against an Adept 3 than a Master 2. A Master2 will stick on mobs that you would NEVER be able to stick an Adept 3 on. I've used my M2 haze with success on mobs that are 10 levels higher than me.</div><div> </div><div>Our haze/lethargy/soul line is the shamans bread and butter. This is what makes us really special. All other priests can heal. No other priests can slow. Plus, the damage prevented by the haze+soul is huge, which is much more important than 200 extra healing a M2 ward gives. I don't know the exact difference between a Master 2 ward and an Adept 3 ward. But the difference between Adept 3 and Master 1 is 14%.</div><div> </div><div>When you're up against a real badass named mob, you'll want your haze to stick the first time. When the mob you're trying to slow is resisting, you're wasting valuable time that could be spent on healing. This issue has been raised before by Dyrks in this thread (<a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=19&message.id=9377">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=19&message.id=9377</a>) and I completely agree with him.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Disclaimer: This recommendation is based purely on my own playstyle, which is group play (instance/dungeon runs). I don't raid. If there's something special going on in raids (like unslowable mobs or an abundance of treants) that would speak against my reasoning, then fine. I surrender my wisdom and agree with you. I simply don't have any EQ2 raiding experience.</div><p>Edit: Changed the percentage number from adept3 til master1. It's a 1/7 upgrade (or ~14%)</p><p>Message Edited by SonnyA on <span class="date_text">03-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:33 PM</span></p>

[Sillililygirl]

<div></div>It's a good concept to play with for grouping.I've always wondered how much damage the soul line actually takes care of....<div></div>

[Nacire]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sillililygirl wrote:<div></div>It's a good concept to play with for grouping.I've always wondered how much damage the soul line actually takes care of....<div></div><hr></blockquote>Since the change a while back that made mobs not steadily spam abilities the soul line is a HUGE difference in mob's damage output.  Even caster mobs deal most of their damage with autoattack these days.  (unless you have a really crappy resist against whatever their casting...)

[Banditman]

Or, you could take a lower level Haze with a respec if you gotta have that resist modifier. There is really not much difference in the Slow percentages from 40 on up.<div></div>

[Mystiq]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>SonnyA wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div>Hi all</div><div> </div><div>Some of the general questions that are always being asked, are the ones about enemy mastery choices and ofcourse the class specific Master 2 training choices.</div><div> </div><div>This is what I've learned is a pretty good course for a mystic. Each with a quick comment attached.</div><div> </div><div><strong>Master 2 choice</strong></div><div>14 - Wards of Spirit (the group ward has SO much more potential)24 - Keening Haze (the ward is obsolete at level 26. Haze will last a lifetime)<font color="#ff0000"> If by your last statement you mean "because they're no longer being improved and we have to keep the masters we have forever just for their lower resistability" then you are correct.</font>34 - Spiritual Healing (Healing is good. The other choices are bad)44 - Umbral Ritual (again, much more ward in the group version) <font color="#ff0000">Of course there's more ward in the group version, there's also 3 more seconds worth of casting time, double the power cost and who knows how many times more aggro to you when your target(s) get hit. Don't choose group ward based solely on the fact that it wards for more. Make your choice based on your needs and playstyle, and also consider the master 1 spells available out of the master 2 choices, and don't pick one with a master 1 easily available.</font>54 - Weeping Haze (The 'harder to resist' bonus makes this the obvoius choice) <font color="#ff0000">This would be a decent choice at this level, purely based on the fact that you will use debuffs a lot and for the lower resistability.</font>64 - Lethargy (The 'harder to resist' bonus makes this the obvious choice) <font color="#ff0000">Again choose this only if you plan to raid a lot. I had Dreadful Lethargy master 1 and wasn't impressed with the scaling of Lethargy. A ward is not even a choice here so either Lethargy or Learned Healing is the way to go. I went with the heal because its master 1 was scarce and with the Ritual AA you can heal for 2k+ with it.</font></div><div> </div><div>A Master 1 is pretty close to Master 2, so if you already have a Master 1 version of the spell, feel free to pick something else.</div><div><strong>Enemy mastery choice</strong>12 - Gnolls (Antonica, Thundering Steppes and Splitpaw is gnoll infested)16 - Skeletons (You can't throw a rock anywhere without hitting a skeleton)24 - Giant (Always giants)32 - Goblin (EL + Runnyeye and PoF is crawling with them)38 - Lizardman (They show up in all tiers. Or Nightbloods which are good prey for the disease DoT line, for the soloer). <font color="#ff0000">I believe Elemental was another choice for this tier, and that's what I went with. I chose lizardman first but found limited use beyond CT and there aren't any beyond DoF, so I respec'd out.</font>52 - Harpy (You'll be killing more of those than the other) <font color="#ff0000">If you plan to raid DoF, Djinn mastery is the only choice here. If you don't, they're all about the same.</font>62 - Ravasect (you can pick whatever you want. But Ravasects are higher level than the other, so it'll last longer) <font color="#ff0000">I chose Draconian or however it's worded, which equates to Droags. I've used it quite a bit so far but this early in the expansion it's hard to choose a clear winner here. Ravasect is also a solid choice, as there are several rava named and at least one x4.</font></div><div> </div><div>I know that my level 54 Master 2 pick is controversial, as most of you will recommend the ward over the haze. But I think my reasoning is pretty strong. If your haze is adept 3, you'll have it resisted quite often against orange and red mobs. This is NOT the case with the Master 2. The mobs resist rate is simply much much higher against an Adept 3 than a Master 2. A Master2 will stick on mobs that you would NEVER be able to stick an Adept 3 on. I've used my M2 haze with success on mobs that are 10 levels higher than me.</div><div> </div><div>Our haze/lethargy/soul line is the shamans bread and butter. This is what makes us really special. All other priests can heal. No other priests can slow. Plus, the damage prevented by the haze+soul is huge, which is much more important than 200 extra healing a M2 ward gives. I don't know the exact difference between a Master 2 ward and an Adept 3 ward. But the difference between Adept 3 and Master 1 is 14%.</div><div> </div><div>When you're up against a real badass named mob, you'll want your haze to stick the first time. When the mob you're trying to slow is resisting, you're wasting valuable time that could be spent on healing. This issue has been raised before by Dyrks in this thread (<a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=19&message.id=9377">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=19&message.id=9377</a>) and I completely agree with him.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Disclaimer: This recommendation is based purely on my own playstyle, which is group play (instance/dungeon runs). I don't raid. If there's something special going on in raids (like unslowable mobs or an abundance of treants) that would speak against my reasoning, then fine. I surrender my wisdom and agree with you. I simply don't have any EQ2 raiding experience.<font color="#ff0000">Might wanna put this disclaimer at the beginning of your post <span>:smileywink:</span>. As for what might speak against your reasoning, the only thing I can think of is the slow and DPS debuff caps, which are both 50%. One Mystic and One Defiler using just adept 3 debuffs can hit the cap for both slow categories rather easily. To say nothing about Dirge, Brigand, Guardian slows and any other class that can debuff just like we can. It's neither necessary nor efficient to cast all of our slows on any given raid when other debuffers are present. It all just boils down to your needs and your raid make up.</font></div><p>Edit: Changed the percentage number from adept3 til master1. It's a 1/7 upgrade (or ~14%)</p><p>Message Edited by SonnyA on <span class="date_text">03-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:33 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote></span></div>

[SonnyA]

<div></div><p>I just checked some facts.</p><p>Sacred Aegis Adept 3 is a 1182 hp ward, while the Master 2 is 1394 hp. This is a difference of 212 hp or 17.8%.</p><p>Wailing Haze M2 (level 10) - Decreases attack speed by 18.1% and offensive skills by 2.5. It is 31% harder to resist.</p><p>Keening Haze M2 (level 24) - Decreases attack speed by 20% and offensive skills by 5.9. It is 31% harder to resist.</p><p>Howling Haze Ad3 (level 3<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Decreases attack speed by 19.3% and offensive skills by 8.0. It is 20% harder to resist.</p><p>Weeping Haze M2 (level 52) - Decreases attack speed by 25% and offensive skills by 12.9. It is 31% harder to resist.</p><p> </p><p>Banditman,</p><p>Ok, so the choice is this. Would I want to keep using my Keening Haze M2 and get the M2 ward at 54. Or would I want to use an Ad3 ward and M2 Weeping Haze. Let's compare</p><p>Weeping Haze M2 has 25% better slow component and a 117% better skill debuff. (The level 24 haze has a slight advantage, because it only costs 52 power vs the 107 from the level 52 haze)</p><p>The M2 ward heals 17.8% better than the Ad3 ward (or 212 hp).</p><p> </p><p>This might be a matter of preference. Will I heal more than I'll debuff? But looking at those numbers, I'll stick to the M2 Haze at 54 instead of the ward.</p>

[Banditman]

<div></div>And I'll stick to and continue to encourage the use of the Ward.Against non Epic mobs, debuffs are of little value.  Only the most stout of Named creatures will survive long enough for the debuff to show it's value.  You will however be Warding in nearly every encounter.Against Epic mobs, a Mystic better not be your only source of debuffs.  You should have a very wide variety of classes doing debuffs.  In this case, the difference between an Adept 3 and Master 1 or 2 debuff is small enough compared to cap that it's irrelevant.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Banditman on <span class="date_text">03-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:11 PM</span></p>

[Dyr]

<div></div><div>Quoting</div><div> </div><div>"Against non Epic mobs, debuffs are of little value"</div><div> </div><div>----------------------------</div><div>Well I guess there are different playstyles and situations but my implied target is usually yellow, orange or maybe even red con heroic so if I want to keep the tank alive and spend the least amount of mana doing it, I always slow heroic encounters, I have our main line group and single target slows hot key macro'd and to me is as essential as wards and heals.</div><div> </div><div>The fights are less mana draining, the tank stays at max health better so is better able to handle, adds, flurries of HO mob damage, AoE's, and overall it just plays out as being the more effecient and safer way and plays to our strengths in class.</div><div> </div><div>Don't want to debuff andjust spam heals ? re-roll as a cleric imho. Sure, solo mobs and even con or less heroics, heals and a lil damage is fun and nice but against tougher stuff slows to me , are the right way to fight.</div><div> </div><div>I dual box with a ranger,  group with guildies.  and raid x2 and x4 weekly and to me my most important job in all three of those situations is getting the mob slowed early in fight.</div><p>Message Edited by Dyrks on <span class="date_text">03-12-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:13 AM</span></p>

[Banditman]

I would show you the math if I really cared enough, but suffice it to say that the difference in mana use between slowing and not slowing a heroic encounter is very minimal.If your encounters are taking long enough for it to matter, you need more DPS.  I think the average encounter is right around 25 seconds now, with most of the damage coming in the first 5 from the big CA's that get popped right at the start.My comments were related only to Heroics, and I believe I specified that.  Raiding is a whole different game.<div></div>

[Karlen]

<div></div>>>>44 - Umbral Ritual (again, much more ward in the group version)<<<I'm 53 and just want to say that this is a great spell.  The Master II wards for 1822 and this is enough that I've been able to ward for people much higher level than me in duo-trio situations.   I solo a lot and usually cast this prior to pulling if the target is yellow or orange -- it gives me plenty of time before it drops to cast the rest of my debuffs, dots and a single ward (which is only adept 1).<div></div>

[Samani]

<div></div><div></div><p>I'll throw in my 2 cents that i agree the lvl 54 M2 slow is way better. Its not so much the fact that other classes can also slow and you'll hit the cap anyways. Its the resist. Soon as you can get your debuffs to land on a mob your wards are gonna be like 50% more effective. While these other classes are still trying to stick thier debuffs you can sit back and focus on healing.</p><p>Plus as the fight goes on and debuffs wear not everyone is on the ball with recasting them. I never thought when i rolled my mystic that i would be focusing so much on debuffing, but man it makes my job way easier.</p><p>Oh and its not just for raiding. Any epicX2 out there can be taken with a single group, or that high orange named you run into and wanna kill. Those fights are not gonna be 24 seconds and you will be very grateful you can stick those debuffs you have.</p><p>Message Edited by Samanial on <span class="date_text">03-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:58 PM</span></p>

[fxt]

I chose avatar for my 64. Encounters, save for raid ones, are burned down too quickly for me to even land all my debuffs. At 54 I was lucky to come across sacred aegis master I and chose the slow at 54 <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Finora]

<div></div><div></div><div>Commenting on the OP:</div><div> </div><div>First, disclaimers are good at the beginning of posts like this hehe.</div><div> </div><div>Did you compare the difference between the stats of ad3 Weeping Haze and the master 2 other than the % resist?</div><div>I don't have the stats available atm but they aren't that big of a difference, or didn't seem so to me. Most of our slows are like that, after getting a ad3 the only thing that really gets a jump for master/master2 is the %resist. And I must say, it isn't often that I have to recast a slow in a group because of a resist.</div><div> </div><div>Most of my choices have come down to 'do I have a master 1/ad3 of that already and how much does it actually add to my function?" I don't often look at the %resist since it doesn't actually seem to matter that much. I barely notice a difference between app4 and upgrading to ad3/master1 in actual use.</div><div> </div><div>I personally went with the more common 54 choice, the single target ward. Why? I had master 1/ad3 of the others. And warding is my key job in a group. If I ward properly I don't need to heal much. When in a good group, (and I almost always am) the mob is dead before I get a chance to recast my debuff (often before I get to cast more than the stamina debuff.) And not because I'm 'spam healing/warding'.  Maybe if my friends didn't play relatively high DPS classes (berserker tank always, mish-mash of wizards, bards, warlocks, enchanter and occassional ranger usually for the rest of the group) I'd view things differently. Likewise if I grouped often with another healer, I might think differently but /shrug. Each of us plays a different game.</div><div> </div><div>Not that I don't debuff religiously at the beginning of most fights, and if they happen to drop before the mob, I'll do it again. But really, weeping and the other debuffs aren't the end and being of  a mystic. Sounds too much like old EQ to me where for a long time that was the only thing a shaman could do.</div><div> </div><div>It all comes down to what spells you already have ad3/master 1 for most people, like I said earlier and what you choose to do as your 'job' in a group.</div><p>Message Edited by Calendri on <span class="date_text">03-20-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:14 AM</span></p>

[SonnyA]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Calendri wrote:<div></div><div></div><div>Commenting on the OP:</div><div> </div><div>First, disclaimers are good at the beginning of posts like this hehe.</div><div> </div><div>Did you compare the difference between the stats of ad3 Weeping Haze and the master 2 other than the % resist?</div><div>I don't have the stats available atm but they aren't that big of a difference, or didn't seem so to me. Most of our slows are like that, after getting a ad3 the only thing that really gets a jump for master/master2 is the %resist. And I must say, it isn't often that I have to recast a slow in a group because of a resist.</div><div> </div><div><font color="#ff0000">As with most upgrades from Ad3 to M2, the upgrade is ~18%. But you get 18% better slow, 18% better debuff and 11% better resist percentage. With the ward you "just" get 18% better heal. I know that the upgrades to the haze are small. The primary reason to go with the M2 haze is the resist rate.</font></div><div> </div><div><font color="#ff0000">Since you don't get resisted much, you probably mostly fight yellow con and below. When you're up against oranges or red, the difference really shows. A Master will stick easily on mobs up to 10 levels higher than yourself, where an Ad3 gets resisted quite often. Have you ever tried sticking an Ad3 to a mob 8-10 levels higher than yourself? It's almost impossible.</font></div><div>Most of my choices have come down to 'do I have a master 1/ad3 of that already and how much does it actually add to my function?" I don't often look at the %resist since it doesn't actually seem to matter that much. I barely notice a difference between app4 and upgrading to ad3/master1 in actual use.</div><div> </div><div><font color="#ff0000">Well, as I've said. If you already have master 1 then there's no reason to upgrade to master 2. You're already a master.</font></div><div>I personally went with the more common 54 choice, the single target ward. Why? I had master 1/ad3 of the others. And warding is my key job in a group. If I ward properly I don't need to heal much. When in a good group, (and I almost always am) the mob is dead before I get a chance to recast my debuff (often before I get to cast more than the stamina debuff.) And not because I'm 'spam healing/warding'.  Maybe if my friends didn't play relatively high DPS classes (berserker tank always, mish-mash of wizards, bards, warlocks, enchanter and occassional ranger usually for the rest of the group) I'd view things differently. Likewise if I grouped often with another healer, I might think differently but /shrug. Each of us plays a different game.</div><div> </div><div><font color="#ff0000">In the setup you're describing here, it sounds like it wouldn't make a difference anyway. But when a named/epic is chewing big chunks of the tanks health every second, you don't have time to get resisted. Especially not if you're short on healers.</font></div><div><font color="#ff0000"></font> </div><div><font color="#ff0000">The adept ward will always stick. The adept haze won't.</font></div><div>Not that I don't debuff religiously at the beginning of most fights, and if they happen to drop before the mob, I'll do it again. But really, weeping and the other debuffs aren't the end and being of  a mystic. Sounds too much like old EQ to me where for a long time that was the only thing a shaman could do.</div><div> </div><div><font color="#ff0000">Healing is our primary function, but slowing/debuffing is our speciality. Any priest can heal. Only shamans can slow.</font></div><div> </div><div>It all comes down to what spells you already have ad3/master 1 for most people, like I said earlier and what you choose to do as your 'job' in a group.</div><p></p><hr></blockquote>Thank you for your comments. Replies are included in the quote.</div>

[Voelfg]

<div></div>bump

[Pari]

<div></div>Great Information. Very usefull for my lvl 22 Darkelf Mystic.

[Karlen]

I took the Sacred Aegis Master II at 54 and it was very good.  But then I noticed that there are always lots of SA Master 1 scrolls (only slightly less protection) available on the broker -- I ended up buying one for 2p and then respeced to the Haze.  Master debuffs are very helpful as they are much easier to land on higher level mobs (which are the ones you need to use debuffs on anyways).  <div></div>