Mystics...PvP musings and concerns.

[OzzRa]

<div><strong><font color="#6699ff" face="Comic Sans MS">Hi all,</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#6699ff" face="Comic Sans MS"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#6699ff" face="Comic Sans MS">First post...</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#6699ff" face="Comic Sans MS"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#6699ff" face="Comic Sans MS">I've recently returned to EQ2 and I started up a Mystic on a PvP server.  Been having fun for the most part aside from being ganked by groups but thats to be expected.  I've lvled up to 31 and in pve groups my guild loves me, I was a long time cleric in EQ and know the ins and outs of keeping groups alive and feel I'm quite good at it or so I've been told.</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#6699ff" face="Comic Sans MS"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#6699ff" face="Comic Sans MS">PVP has been hit and miss, mostly miss :smileyhappy:  One glaring issue is stun-locking, now this is hardly just a Mystic issue but I don't think the immune aspects of this types of attacks are working as SOE says they are.  I don't have any parse data to show this is mearly my perception.  Often times I will be unable to cast or move the entire battle, so I basicly die.  I don't know what the solution is but something needs to be readdressed by SOE to help those of us who have no ability to root or stun others.</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#6699ff" face="Comic Sans MS"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#6699ff" face="Comic Sans MS">Cast times are my undoing, I don't have much issue in PVE but PVP is another story.  1vs1 on equal lvling ground one of two things end up happening.  I die or they run away and I don't get the kill as by that time I don't have the extra power to sprint and catch them.  Furies and Wardens don't seem to have the issues I keep running across and its frustrating that I'm so helpless.  </font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#6699ff" face="Comic Sans MS"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#6699ff" face="Comic Sans MS">I feel as if I'm a free kill for any other class save defilers/Inquisy.  In groups for PVP I do well which is expect but I don't think its completely unfair to ask for some sort of boost for solo pvp.  Maybe things get better as I lvl up, not sure.  I guess the reason for this post is to ask other Mystics in PVP how you're doing.</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#6699ff" face="Comic Sans MS"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#6699ff" face="Comic Sans MS">We have one snare attack, which because of long cast times usualy means the player gets further away not closer, and one AOE stun which for me is something I keep up incase I have to run.  Oddly enough most times I am perma stunned so I never get a chance to fire it off.</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#6699ff" face="Comic Sans MS"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#6699ff" face="Comic Sans MS">Don't get me wrong I do love playing a Mystic, just somedays I wish I had more tools at my disposal when it comes to pvp, specificly when jumped by a player close to my lvl.  </font></strong></div>

[Banditman]

I really think your concerns would be better addressed on the PvP boards.  PvP servers have different rules for spells and arts than we do on regular PvE servers.<div></div>

[Mjollnir13]

<div></div><p>I feel the same about casting times...even when PvEing. I have only played one other caster type (illusionist) and my Mystic casts wayyyyy slower then my illusionist. A lot of it is probably me...I just haven't learned PvPing with a Mystic. But I also know we aren't the greatest solo PvP class.</p><p> </p>

[Banditman]

Like I said, PvP is a totally different game, with totally different spells and rules.You're not going to find the expertise you desire here, you'll either need to create it yourself or seek it within the PvP community.<div></div>

[OzzRa]

<div></div><strong><font color="#6699ff">Last i checked this is the Mystic board, to discuss all things Mystic which includes PVP.  If you don't have anything to add then stop posting. </font></strong>

[Banditman]

I am trying to help you, but since you clearly don't need it, good luck to you.<div></div>

[skidmark]

I played a Defiler on a PvE server, not the same but I feel your pain when it comes to casting times. If you have someone up in your grill and cannot cast, drop your PBAoE hate decreaser/mez spell (forget the name) and that will give you a chance to land some protective spells (wards) before trying to continue with your battle. Check your focus skill as well, if it is too low, go aggro something very green (but don't attack it, that way you get out of combat power/hp regen) in a safe spot (if you can find one) and continually try to cast Call of Qeynos or your group ward, you should get some significant increases in focus and defense if it is lacking.As far as stun-locking goes only a 30+ Brigand can accomplish that solo. If that is what you are running into, that is just the way Brigands are. You will have to run after landing your PBAoE mez and then use your Eidolic Ward to cover your butt if he catches back up to you.

[Prismata]

<div></div><div></div><div>I haven't played PvP as a mystic, but I can fully understand what you're saying. I run into the same weaknesses while soloing. I have posted on the 'mystic' wish list for a decent stun for mystics, and it has been ignored. Casting times are also an issue while soloing, so I feel your pain. Now that every group solo encounter has constant interrupts sometimes even getting a cure off is difficult. I've thought about making a PvP mystic just to see how we stand up to other classes. I suspected the weaknesses I've seen in PVE would carry over there and you've confirmed that.</div><div> </div><div>On the hopeful side...PvP is still very new and I'm sure there's a lot of tweaking to be done yet. I think a lot will depend on SOE's intent for priest classes. If they decide our role is only group and not 1 on 1 then we're stuck with this lame (for soloing) class.</div><p>Message Edited by Prismata on <span class="date_text">03-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:21 PM</span></p>

[icetower]

<div></div><p>I haven't played on the pvp servers yet but duelled a zerker friend in my 50's a fair bit for fun.</p><p>Its pretty much a one sided affair, with me spending most of the fight either being stunned or interrupted, with no real offensive options. I found that I could barely hit him with melee at equal level, and he quickly learned which resist gear to wear to counter or minimise my dots.</p><p>About my best strategy seemed to be the "porcupine" one. I would put on all my gear which procs feedback and as an alchy I could afford to use damage shield potions. (unfortunately dam shield potions are weaker with new expansion).</p><p>I would say I was quite hard to kill, with fights sometimes lasting 10 minutes or more, but it was more a case of me saving my own butt for that time, while ever so slowly wearing his hps down. I mostly used pox due to fast cast, rarely getting the cold dot to either cast or land. I also found slothful spirit didn't seem to work too well, sapping a bit of power but not doing the damage.</p><p>One good trick was to use umbral saviour when I was oop and then let him kill me. Oberon when I popped back up and sit there regening health and power for 30 secs. I imagine oberon could be very frustrating to the opposition at any time of the fight if they are not a major dps class.</p><p>Based on my limited knowledge I would want a good group of friends on pvp before I would play a Mystic there, because I would find it very difficult to be a solo aggressor.</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Prismata]

<div>I tend to use slothful spirit a lot to increase damage output. Basically it deals a DD effect whenever your opponent casts and drains their power some. Not going to be an option at lower levels though. Unless things have changed since I was below level 50 it's not a spell line. Would be nice if it was though.</div>

[Omenat]

<div></div><p>I agree with the original poster.</p><p>I have a currently level 22 Mystic on the PvP server. I have made the same experience, than the original poster.</p><p>The mystic is a great class in PvE, but its probably the weakest class in PvP. There is no offensive power and because the most other classes (and almost all enemy players are using such classes) can frequently stun and root and everything else its often not possible to cast anything beside 1 slow and weak DOT and we are getting stunned and interrupted and we are dead in a few seconds or if we are lucky and good, we can sometimes escape. This is all and this is not enough in PvP.</p><p> </p><p>The problem in 1vs1 PvP is this:</p><p>If we could heal and ward ourselves in a fight easier, we could try to live long enough to let our DOT kill the enemy, but this is not possible, because the heals have a too long casting time and in the time we are casting the "short" (2 sec) heal, we are getting the same damage in melee or from spells that we are healing. In PvE you have almost allways the time to prepaier for a battle and start with a good ward. In PvP you are getting jumped and have no time to cast wards. The only instant cast emergency ward that we got is too weak and have a laughable 30 minutes reuse time. One of the solutions would be to make the instant cast ward more powerful and with a short reuse time, like 1 minute.</p><p>Another way to fight in 1vs1 PvP would be (theoritically) to snare the opponent (if its a melee type) and DOT him and running around waiting he is getting killed by the DOT and by the weak snare-nukes. But this is now not possible. The enemy is allways getting to you and roots, stuns, interrupts you and if you stop running to cast (too long casting time on our too weak nuke) , the enemy is for sure by you and beating you to death before you could do anything. A solution would be to give the mystics a root or a random mini teleport like wizards and necros in EQ1 got. The mystic needs a chance to get away from the opponent and be able to do something offensive.</p><p>There MUST BE at least one way, a possible strategy using the given abilities and spells for each class (even for the mystic) to be able to win a 1vs1 PvP fight against the most classes. Currently, if a good mystic is fighting a good opponent of same level of any other class, the chances to win is for the mystic very small. Its a win if he can escape.</p><p>I know, if you as a mystic can start the battle and got ward up and start with a DOT and a nuke before the opponent can react, there is an almost fair chance to win the fight. This shows me, that the problem is, that we can not use our main talents if we do not have the time to prepair before the fight. We need a change to be able to getting a quick emergency help.</p>

[Sokolov]

<div>Dueling on Mistmoore as my Defiler has led me to believe that it is a formidible PvP class.  I usually open with Fear - on the PC for non-pet classes, and on the pet against a pet class.  When the dumb-fire pets come out, I AE fear.  I DoT the player, debuff, and fear every time it pops.  Most people can't even break through my wards.  Once they are down to 60% or so Defile comes out and it's pretty much over then.<span></span></div>

[Omenat]

<div></div><div></div><p> </p><blockquote><hr>Sokolov wrote:<div>Dueling on Mistmoore as my Defiler has led me to believe that it is a formidible PvP class.  I usually open with Fear...</div><hr></blockquote><p>Mystic do not get fear. If mystics had fear, I would be very happy and to have this spell would solve all the problems.</p><p>Another point is, that duelling is not the same as open PvP. The difference is, that when you are staying in a zone like Antonica, you will get attacked very often, often just a minute after you got revived by a camp and you are mostly unprepared for a fight, often involved in a fight with monsters. You get attacked in dungeons like Stormhold too and there is no place to run around and you get often line of sight problems when you try to cast.</p><p>Message Edited by Omenaton on <span class="date_text">04-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:02 AM</span></p>

[Sokolov]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Omenaton wrote:<div></div><div></div><p> </p><blockquote><hr>Sokolov wrote:<div>Dueling on Mistmoore as my Defiler has led me to believe that it is a formidible PvP class.  I usually open with Fear...</div><hr></blockquote><p>Mystic do not get fear. If mystics had fear, I would be very happy and to have this spell would solve all the problems.</p><p>Another point is, that duelling is not the same as open PvP. The difference is, that when you are staying in a zone like Antonica, you will get attacked very often, often just a minute after you got revived by a camp and you are mostly unprepared for a fight, often involved in a fight with monsters. You get attacked in dungeons like Stormhold too and there is no place to run around and you get often line of sight problems when you try to cast.</p><p>Message Edited by Omenaton on <span class="date_text">04-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:02 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>*nods* I guess what I was saying is that even tho we are both Shamans, some key features of the Defiler side make it much better suited for PvP.And you are right, it isn't the same at all in actual PvP, altho it's never been as bad for me as you have said.  I currently have a Level 20 Dirge on Nagafen that just made Hunter =D</span></div>

[Storm Saxon]

"Hi all,First post...I've recently returned to EQ2 and I started up a Mystic on a PvP server. Been having fun for the most part aside from being ganked by groups but thats to be expected. I've lvled up to 31 and in pve groups my guild loves me, I was a long time cleric in EQ and know the ins and outs of keeping groups alive and feel I'm quite good at it or so I've been told.PVP has been hit and miss, mostly miss One glaring issue is stun-locking, now this is hardly just a Mystic issue but I don't think the immune aspects of this types of attacks are working as SOE says they are. I don't have any parse data to show this is mearly my perception. Often times I will be unable to cast or move the entire battle, so I basicly die. I don't know what the solution is but something needs to be readdressed by SOE to help those of us who have no ability to root or stun others.Cast times are my undoing, I don't have much issue in PVE but PVP is another story. 1vs1 on equal lvling ground one of two things end up happening. I die or they run away and I don't get the kill as by that time I don't have the extra power to sprint and catch them. Furies and Wardens don't seem to have the issues I keep running across and its frustrating that I'm so helpless.I feel as if I'm a free kill for any other class save defilers/Inquisy. In groups for PVP I do well which is expect but I don't think its completely unfair to ask for some sort of boost for solo pvp. Maybe things get better as I lvl up, not sure. I guess the reason for this post is to ask other Mystics in PVP how you're doing.We have one snare attack, which because of long cast times usualy means the player gets further away not closer, and one AOE stun which for me is something I keep up incase I have to run. Oddly enough most times I am perma stunned so I never get a chance to fire it off.Don't get me wrong I do love playing a Mystic, just somedays I wish I had more tools at my disposal when it comes to pvp, specificly when jumped by a player close to my lvl. "I am a 35 Mystic and I almost always win my 1v1 fights. I can reliably kill things up to about two or three levels higher than me. Scout classes my specialty. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I think the cornerstone spell in my spell list is my master level Cry of the Ancients and Delusion. Start off with these two spells and you've lowered your opponent's stamina about a wopping 90 points. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Combine this with the lowering of strength of delusion and M2 keening haze, and any tank class is limping against us, any casting class is a paper bag.About keening haze, I took it as my M2 and have not regretted it at all. Slower attack speed equals better chance of getting wards off. Scales to your opponent. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Finally, Water Spirit is a freaking tremendous spell. If you are anywhere near water, fight there. It's pretty funny to see people's health plummet when they asphyxiate. Easy status.Right now I have the hardest time against pet classes because of their silence and their interrupting varmints, but it's by no means a definite win for them.

[yadd]

Hi,I'm playing for 5 Weeks EQ2 now. I had a Wizard, a Fury and now a Mystic. I managed it to kill a lvl 14 Assassine with lvl 10 and a lvl 18 Brigand with lvl 15 ( Mystic ). I don't know what expierence you made in PvP, but mine was positive in a 1on1 fight. Yeah, perhaps my opponents were newbs as well, but scouts are DD - Classes. My Oppinion is: You need to be able to play your Character. You cannot say, that the Scout is the Uber-Profession in PvP. Sure, it's easier in PvP with a Scout than a Mystic, but the feeling is much better, when you kill a Scout/Fighter with a Mystic. Thats my oppinion about the PvP in EQ2 with a Priest.post scriptum:Sorry for my english. It's not my mothertounge.

[Lachlan]

<DIV>My observation would be Mystics, like several other classes are not good solo on the PvP server.  We have one mystic in our guild, she's got over 600 kills but is always grouped.   There are a staggering number of Furies on the pvp servers because they have some offense so as a mystic, at least you aren't a dime a dozen, if that means anything to you. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you are sick of being ganked, I know some healers just don't fight back, stay out of combat and keep power regen going with food, potions, etc and simply keep healing til the opponent gets tired of fighting or run out of power themselves, then you have options - zoning, attack an out of power opponent or grab grif. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>High level healers are very hard to kill regardless of class.  I'm on the Qeynos side so I haven't gone up against any mystics but between 40 and 50 other healers get some nice upgrades and seem to outheal any damage 1 player can drop ( an SK with HT up and all bets are off ).   As far as stuns and stiffles go, you're going to get them but you can't be chain stunned as these effects all come with a times two immunity timer.   My mystic is PvE but my Troubador has been on the recieving end of some annoyingly long stiffles, they seem long at least but I think they are basically around 6 seconds. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good luck, I think healers are solid choices on the server, Mystics are little challenging to play but if you are going to be grouped most of the time, you shouldn't suffer much and I know people love those wards.  If you've got to have some solo punch, well, you can always join the legions of Furies.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PS>  I disagree with the poster who wants to keep this class discusion forum pristinely PvP-free.  There's plenty of pvp expertise right here and if the post has 'pvp' right in the title don't click it if y ou don't want to read it.  Almost every forum has at least one active pvp thread.  System 'working as intended'.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Aesdyn2]

<div></div>I play a 70 mystic on one of the new PVP servers and I can tell you it dosen't change.  Scouts and fighters you run or die.  Healers and mages are killable.  That's about it.  If you get a scout on you it's generally not worth healing as you will get interrupted on anything but an emergency heal.  Thems the breaks.

[Forebian]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aesdyn2 wrote:<BR> I play a 70 mystic on one of the new PVP servers and I can tell you it dosen't change.  Scouts and fighters you run or die.  Healers and mages are killable.  That's about it.  If you get a scout on you it's generally not worth healing as you will get interrupted on anything but an emergency heal.  Thems the breaks.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What about the pet that the Mystic gets with their first AP? After reading about it I would think they become much more viable with a pet.

[Aesdyn2]

Assuming you have the pet up (wich is unlikely considering that people forget to peace it every time they zone and even the greenest of green solo mobs can deck it faster than you can say "12 Health") it's sort of usefull. I'm full pet speced and if im lucky i'll live another 2 seconds because it warded for 500, that's about it. It's not going to kill anyone for you with that l33t DPS it has.

[Forebian]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aesdyn2 wrote:<BR>Assuming you have the pet up (wich is unlikely considering that people forget to peace it every time they zone and even the greenest of green solo mobs can deck it faster than you can say "12 Health") it's sort of usefull. I'm full pet speced and if im lucky i'll live another 2 seconds because it warded for 500, that's about it. It's not going to kill anyone for you with that l33t DPS it has.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>LOL.</P> <P>I ask because my daughter plays a mystic. I logged her on last night and got her first AP knocked out. She's going to love her pet....too bad it apparently sucks. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Dman4]

To set the mood, I'll step out on a limb and say that Mystic are not underpowered in PvP. In EQI and EQII and all other PvP games, there are solo classes and group classes. Mystics are not special in solo situations but in group PvP situations they can outperform many other healers.<b>However</b>, solo PvP is not an impossibility for a mystic. Unfortunately, class balance doesn't exist pre-50. After 50 things level out a bit. The best technique that I have been able to come up and use goes as follows. First, put your pet on passive. It will put you in combat and that ruins this entire strategy. Right now there is a bug that an attacked pet will retaliate in PvP regardless, but I'm posting this with the assumption that this will be fixed.When someone attacks you, cast Torpor on yourself. It is a self-snare/slow/regen-ward/Heal-over-time. Follow this with Oberon. At adept I spells, this is about 1700hp of ward with 200hp of heal every 2 seconds and ~800hp ward per second or two regenerated. What normally happens is the attacking class will use all of their timers and power on you and you will stand there with full health and power. When oberon drops, quickly debuff your opponent (slow if melee, mits and STA if caster) and self-ward (group+solo). Follow with dots and melee. It's a fight of endurance at this point but they started with 40% power and you have full.Yes, the opponent can run. That's the mystic handicap for being so good at group pvp, we can't stop anyone from running. However, you can definately keep yourself alive versus a even con fighter or bruiser.To conclude: Mystics can stay alive and probably beat anyone who decides to stay around long enough to be killed. Mystics can't stop people from running. Class balance below 50 is nonexistant.

[Aesdyn2]

Not to refute you, Dman, but at 70 class balance is the same as it was before and I can honestly say that I've died in less time than it takes to cast torpor assuming I wasn't stun/interrupt locked (wich of course I was).

[Ashni]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dman478 wrote:<BR>Yes, the opponent can run. That's the mystic handicap for being so good at group pvp, we can't stop anyone from running. However, you can definately keep yourself alive versus a even con fighter or bruiser.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>What about the agility AA that roots?  Does it completely suck?</P> <P> </P> <P>Also, does anyone have any experience with the berserk rage ability (sorry, forget its name) at the end of the agility line?  It looks tempting...</P>

[Demoneque]

I am a 47 Mystic on the Nagafen server.  I've found that I actually fare pretty well in solo PvP, but I've found that it really depends on the class attacking me.  To this day, I have never taken down a bruiser.  The sheer number of knockdowns is too much for me.  However, I've had some great success against most other classes.  In my opinion, scouts are fairly easy to take out; especially Assassins.  They may get that first huge hit on you, but I've found that I can ward up, heal, then outlast them with dots and re-warding myself.  I also recently added a cedar wand to my arsenal, and I love using it to nuke for 495 damage while running.Solo PvP is possible for us, it just takes a lot of patience.  I recommend not using your nukes at all (unless your target is running) since they are very inefficient on power usage.<div></div>

[Storm Saxon]

Don't forget that you have  your aoe mez if you need to give yourself some time to ward/heal up/run away.<div></div>