Have Mystics Become Weaker?

[Caliga]

When I left the game several months ago, I had two characters, a mystic that I felt was phenomenal and a ranger that left something to be desired.  When I returned my ranger became uber and my mystic became unplayable.  I mean I cannot keep a group a live.   Some people have tried to convince me that mystics are still as strong as ever and I must simply be a sucky healer.  But others suggested that mystics didn't get the same boost other classes got when they revamped combat. Considering I was a great healer when I left, I am gonna assume its not me and ask around.  What happened to the mystic?  And yes, I do use wards but they drop five seconds after I cast them, even my mastery 2 ward can barely hold up against a yellow.  I really want to be able to play my mystic again, she's dressed up in all that expensive fancy gear for nothing right now.  Any suggestions?Caligo - 40 RangerCaliga - 25 MysticCaliza - 8 Conjuror<div></div>

[Banditman]

Mystics are currently more powerful than they have ever been.<div></div>

[Karlen]

>>And yes, I do use wards but they drop five seconds after I cast them, even my mastery 2 ward can barely hold up against a yellow.<<If you are 25, you are about to get some new wards as your old ones are much lower level than you.  Ancestral Ward comes at level 26 and Wards of Shadow at 28.  There are some inconvenient levels just before you get good spells and this might be one of them.Also, make sure that you use your debuffs.  They can be very powerful. Try to use stamina debuffs early on in the fight as they don't do much once the mob has been damaged (as they reduce "maximum health", not "actual health&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  For example, when soloing, I pull with the encounter stamina debuff and followup with the single target one.  I then throw some DoTs and then DPS debuffs (with wards thrown in as necessary).<div></div>

[AziBam]

<div>/agree with Bandit....mystics are better off now than they have ever been. </div><div> </div><div>Pink, I'm guessing that you left prior to LU13.  All of the healing classes took a bit of a hit in that one as healing spell lines were consolidated onto the same timers and power cost generally went up.  They also increased cast times on several of the healing spell lines.  Again, this was for all the healer classes.  Shaman line probably took it the easiest as in that update plus subsequent ones they fixed our wards.  My mystic is lvl 39 and I have not had problems running as the only healer in groups.  I think you are just now getting the shock of fewer healing spells that you can cast due to timer issues and seeing the increase in power consumption.</div><div> </div><div>Also, at lvl 25 you are just about to hit a bunch of upgrades to your wards/heals.  At lvl 26 your single target ward upgrades, 28 group ward and group heal gets upgraded, at 29 and 32 your single target heals are upgraded.  In other words, basically all of your heals and wards will get upgraded in the next handful of levels.  You are currently warding/healing with spells you picked up a long time ago.  I found some cheap masters on the FP market for the spells you are just about to obtain.  Keep an eye on that and try to pick them up as soon as you can.  Life will start to get a lot better just one level from now with Ancestral Ward.  Hang in there.     </div>

[Purcupile]

<div></div><div></div><p>Pink</p><p>It is strange how different players view the same situation differently.  I April last year I felt the Mystics had been terribly nerfed...I went on strike and stopped playing ( at level 28+) until LU13 when they fixed us.  When I went on strike everything that I had learned to use to get me to level 28 was no longer working (in my opinion).</p><p>Since LU13 I have leveled to 56 (tonight I hope) and have felt much more useful and a much more integral part of the groups I am in...actually until about level 41 or 42 I soloed 90% of the way.  Recently, I am rarely logged on for more than 5 or 10 minutes before I am invited to join a group, and usually it is a group that consists of 1,2 or3 players I have grouped with previously.  I feel these quick invites are an indication I am fairly well regarded by those I have goruped with...because of only one reason...I keep them alive.  In fact I rarely heal per se.  I would estimate that 60-75% of my casts are wards with 25-30% debuffs and occasionally I have to heal, but that is usually because there are often 2 fighters and the one who is not MT forgets he should be assisting the MT and goes out and gets himself into trouble.</p><p>My suggestion to you would be to first look at the Mystic spell list and evaluate where you are.  If you are playing with the spells you are given without upgrading them...then you would rightly be unimpressed with your success.  You need to upgrade your spells especially your wards and debuffs to the highest levels you can afford, while keeping in mind the spells that you will get at the next few levels.  In other words save your Plat and spend it on the newest spells as they will probably be with you for the next 12 levels or so.  Next you need to focus on increasing your WIS...look for armor and jewelry that will help with that.</p><p>And listen to the members who frequent these forums...espcially Banditman, Eepop, Mystique, Zotar, Nacireen and Myst as well as many others whose names escape me at the moment...though they do not always agree with each other it results in a positive learning opportunity ...seeing different ways to look at the same situation.</p><p>Good Luck</p><p>Purcupile</p><p>Message Edited by Purcupile on <span class="date_text">02-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:35 AM</span></p>

[novad]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>ROFL!</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>                                                                                               Uw ay - Dissolution - 60th Mystic</p><p>Message Edited by novad on <span class="date_text">02-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:18 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by novad on <span class="date_text">02-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:18 PM</span></p>

[Finora]

<div></div><div>Like the others have said, the levels right before you get ward/heal upgrades are tough. I am assuming you just recently came back to the game so you are still in the process of relearning your class. We all had to do that and had to change up some of the things that were previously part of our playstyle. A week or 2 of seriously getting a feel for the new mystic (and dinging to get your new ward) should be all you need to feel like a good healer again.</div><div> </div><div>As for being short changed in the update, I don't feel like it. We got the one thing we REALLY needed, wards that mitigate like they always should have.</div><div> </div><div>I find that mystics are actually highly desired healers on my server /shrug.</div><div> </div><div>Good luck to you =)</div>

[HONNIE]

<div></div>So true

[Caliga]

<span><blockquote><hr>Purcupile wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>Pink</p><p>It is strange how different players view the same situation differently.  I April last year I felt the Mystics had been terribly nerfed...I went on strike and stopped playing ( at level 28+) until LU13 when they fixed us.  When I went on strike everything that I had learned to use to get me to level 28 was no longer working (in my opinion).</p><p>Since LU13 I have leveled to 56 (tonight I hope) and have felt much more useful and a much more integral part of the groups I am in...actually until about level 41 or 42 I soloed 90% of the way.  Recently, I am rarely logged on for more than 5 or 10 minutes before I am invited to join a group, and usually it is a group that consists of 1,2 or3 players I have grouped with previously.  I feel these quick invites are an indication I am fairly well regarded by those I have goruped with...because of only one reason...I keep them alive.  In fact I rarely heal per se.  I would estimate that 60-75% of my casts are wards with 25-30% debuffs and occasionally I have to heal, but that is usually because there are often 2 fighters and the one who is not MT forgets he should be assisting the MT and goes out and gets himself into trouble.</p><p>My suggestion to you would be to first look at the Mystic spell list and evaluate where you are.  If you are playing with the spells you are given without upgrading them...then you would rightly be unimpressed with your success.  You need to upgrade your spells especially your wards and debuffs to the highest levels you can afford, while keeping in mind the spells that you will get at the next few levels.  In other words save your Plat and spend it on the newest spells as they will probably be with you for the next 12 levels or so.  Next you need to focus on increasing your WIS...look for armor and jewelry that will help with that.</p><p>And listen to the members who frequent these forums...espcially Banditman, Eepop, Mystique, Zotar, Nacireen and Myst as well as many others whose names escape me at the moment...though they do not always agree with each other it results in a positive learning opportunity ...seeing different ways to look at the same situation.</p><p>Good Luck</p><p>Purcupile</p><p>Message Edited by Purcupile on <span class="date_text">02-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:35 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Hmmmm...after trying to keep a group alive and failing miserably, I went back and got her spells upgraded to Adept 3.  That was the first time I ever spent money on rares to get better spells but I felt like she really needed them.  But even that upset me, cause while I can afford it as I have two high level crafters, why should I need legendary spells just to survive.  Not that it mattered, I still managed to wipe out three different groups multiple times in multiple places.  So I can be sure its my character that's the problem.  I could just chuck it up to sucking as a player if I hadn't had bad experiences with every other mystic since I've been back.  My ranger has gone from 26-40 in the month that I have been back and I have yet to have a mystic that managed to keep the group alive.  If I did, I would just copy everything they did down to the color of their nail polish and be happy with my mystic again.</span><div></div>

[rollando]

<div></div><div>Make sure that the mobs you are fighting con yellow or lower to your tank. Eg : a level 23 tank will be killed very fast by level 27 mobs, while he can sustain the hits from level 26 ones easily.</div>

[Caliga]

Last fight I was in, main tank was 28 and the mobs were 26.  That one was really weird too because I keep grabbing arggo.  I hadn't casted anything for a fight except underwater breathing and when I did the mob ran straight past the tank and started pounding on me.  That happened a couple times in that group before I could cast the first heal or ward.   Today I spent even more money on gear for her, and I will take her out again tomorrow.  Maybe something magically changed and she's viable again.  *crosses fingers*<div></div>

[Zeltaria]

<div> </div><blockquote><hr>pinkdove80 wrote: That one was really weird too because I keep grabbing arggo.  I hadn't casted anything for a fight except underwater breathing and when I did the mob ran straight past the tank and started pounding on me. <div></div><hr></blockquote><div>I used to have major problems keeping a group alive before the combat changes, now it's really not all that difficult, challenging yes, but do-able. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>My response is only to the text above, try turning your runic group buff off... it is major agro for you if your tank dosen't know how to keep agro properly.  Turn it off and see if it helps with that.. it's an awesome buff, but sometimes it's better not to use it.</div><div> </div>

[Caliga]

I'll try that.  Thanks for the advice!<div></div>

[Purcupile]

<div></div><div></div><p>I was going to mention something along the same line as Zeltaria.  At the lower and mid levels in the game I used to think the tanks were gods and they would protect me if I kept them alive.  I have since come to the realization that finding a good MT is as difficult as them finding a good healer.  I am most impressed with the Guardians and Berserkers...mostly because of the armor mitigation they can use.  This give me time to get my wards and debuffs up before I have to heal...if I do at all.  It seems that the others are a little harder to keep out of the red zone...but where you really can run into a problem, especially at your level is when you have more than 1 character in your group that could serve as a tank.  This can result into what I think of as an envy group...the secondary tank isn't always assisting the MT, thus starting fights and perhhaps drawing aggro from adds and other MOBs than the MT is fighting.  This creates a much more difficult situation for you, as when they die they blame you, while you have been working your [Removed for Content] off tying to keep them both standing.  This will result in low mana for you, and while you are replenishing one of them is starting a new fight due to the pressure they see as needing to show who is the best tank.  Also, the approach that I like best from my tank is when they pull a MOB to him and back to the group where it is easier to beat him down...this is opposed to the tank that runs into a group or MOB and starts fighting them where they are, thus making for greater possibility of adds.  When I have situations like that I tell the tank to pull them back to us...little bites are easier to swallow than big ones...I also make them be more aware of their healer's mana, and if I have a group with 2 fighters struggling for supremacy I might have to tell the group (because sometimes you will have other classes that think they can tank better than the MT) that you perceive your responsilility as first to the MT and keeping him or her alive...healing others will come as a secondary responsibility.  Using my wards (because they are more power efficient) often leaves me with more mana to keep the other group members alive as well.  I hate it when I get a tank who has ADD and runs around in a panic mode from  one fight to the other as fast as he can...with the rest of the group chasing him around...I like to kill them fast too, but some really need to take their Ridelin. </p><p>In regards to your comments about having to spend to buff your spells etc.  At the level you are playing now you are give the APP1 spells when you get to lvl50 you are not given any spells, at least not into your knowledge book, you are just given the ability to buy them or use them if you happen to get them in a drop.  But remember the most effective character is the one who usually has the best armor, weapons, food and drink, jewelry and spells.  Oh one other thought...at level 24 I think you were given a choice of several spells for a master.  If you didn't choose group ward, see if you can go back and do that, and remember to choose that at each opportunity you get to choose...24,34,44,54 probably 64.  It will become your most effective spell, until you can get the upgrades.</p><p>Purcupile</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Purcupile on <span class="date_text">02-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:08 AM</span></p>

[EmberX]

I have played several toons before, but I'm just now playing my first ever healer, a mystic - level 37 now, and he is good.  In normal groups that aren't challening themselves (taking on heroics 1 or 2 levels higher than the tank) I can keep everyone permanently in the green and actually think about trying to do some damage as well as making jokes with the group.  When the fight gets hairy (another heroic mob adds eg) or they are going after 3-4 levels higher than the tank then I have a bit of work to do, but overlapping the two wards plus debuffs plus (occasional) direct heals to paper over those yellow patches sees us all through no problems.  There are wipes when there are too many adds, or the tank has been overambitious, but jeez I have to say it is remarkably easy to keep a decent group rolling with full health and little downtime.So don't blame the class.I don't solo with him - can't stand the tedium of the loooong fights - but then I don't seem to need to; getting picked up by a group and getting a level from a couple of hours fast play has been easy so far.<div></div>

[Caliga]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Purcupile wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>I was going to mention something along the same line as Zeltaria.  At the lower and mid levels in the game I used to think the tanks were gods and they would protect me if I kept them alive.  I have since come to the realization that finding a good MT is as difficult as them finding a good healer.  I am most impressed with the Guardians and Berserkers...mostly because of the armor mitigation they can use.  This give me time to get my wards and debuffs up before I have to heal...if I do at all.  It seems that the others are a little harder to keep out of the red zone...but where you really can run into a problem, especially at your level is when you have more than 1 character in your group that could serve as a tank.  This can result into what I think of as an envy group...the secondary tank isn't always assisting the MT, thus starting fights and perhhaps drawing aggro from adds and other MOBs than the MT is fighting.  This creates a much more difficult situation for you, as when they die they blame you, while you have been working your [Removed for Content] off tying to keep them both standing.  This will result in low mana for you, and while you are replenishing one of them is starting a new fight due to the pressure they see as needing to show who is the best tank.  Also, the approach that I like best from my tank is when they pull a MOB to him and back to the group where it is easier to beat him down...this is opposed to the tank that runs into a group or MOB and starts fighting them where they are, thus making for greater possibility of adds.  When I have situations like that I tell the tank to pull them back to us...little bites are easier to swallow than big ones...I also make them be more aware of their healer's mana, and if I have a group with 2 fighters struggling for supremacy I might have to tell the group (because sometimes you will have other classes that think they can tank better than the MT) that you perceive your responsilility as first to the MT and keeping him or her alive...healing others will come as a secondary responsibility.  Using my wards (because they are more power efficient) often leaves me with more mana to keep the other group members alive as well.  I hate it when I get a tank who has ADD and runs around in a panic mode from  one fight to the other as fast as he can...with the rest of the group chasing him around...I like to kill them fast too, but some really need to take their Ridelin. </p><p>In regards to your comments about having to spend to buff your spells etc.  At the level you are playing now you are give the APP1 spells when you get to lvl50 you are not given any spells, at least not into your knowledge book, you are just given the ability to buy them or use them if you happen to get them in a drop.  But remember the most effective character is the one who usually has the best armor, weapons, food and drink, jewelry and spells.  Oh one other thought...at level 24 I think you were given a choice of several spells for a master.  If you didn't choose group ward, see if you can go back and do that, and remember to choose that at each opportunity you get to choose...24,34,44,54 probably 64.  It will become your most effective spell, until you can get the upgrades.</p><p>Purcupile</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Purcupile on <span class="date_text">02-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:08 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Yes, I upgraded my group ward to master 2.   My problem wasn't that I was spending so much on spells.  My problem is that I am spending so much on spells and gear to work my way UP to mediocore.  That's what's upsetting me.  That at my very best I won't be excellent, the best I can hope for is useful.  Every class should be useful to start with.</span></div>

[Caliga]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>EmberX wrote:So don't blame the class.<div></div><hr></blockquote>How I wish I had something else to blame.  Almost anything else I can think of can be fixed.  Even if its me.  I can get better with practice.  However, so far, everything I've experienced has pointed toward the class.  Not the tanks, or the gear, or the spells or even me.  So far it looks like the problem is simply that mystics suck.  And I don't want my mystic to suck, she is already a level 50 carp so I won't delete her, but until she becomes playable this will keep bothering me.  And every weekend I will take her out, trying new methods and ideas, and every weekend I will come back depressed with no exp until I find something that works.</span></div>

[Jays]

<div></div><div></div><p>Believe me Mystics do not "Suck"!</p><p>If you are struggling now you should have played a pre LU13 Mystic you would have hated it we were an embarrassment in healing terms compared to the other healing classes.</p><p>Admittedly I'm a lvl 60 Mystic with reasonable gear and spell upgrades, But I rarely have had problems keeping groups alive Post LU13. I genuinely believe the key is having a good tank!! if the tank is taking huge hits that you can't keep up with, then it can only be one of 2 things:</p><p>1) The Mobs you are fighting are of too high a level for your group capabilities, skill and equipment level.</p><p>2) You just ain't playing your Mystic to full potential.</p><p>I ain't going to go into what I feel is the right order to do things within a group, as everyone who has played this class will have there own personal ideas on what is rright or wrong to do when confronted with a certain set of circumstances. What I will say is "don't give up on it, you will find it all becomes a lot easier the more experience you get". One last thing Apart from the fluff and damage spells, virtually everthing we get has a good use and makes a difference. </p><p>Ummari Mystique of the Shard</p><p>Message Edited by Jaysee on <span class="date_text">02-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:37 AM</span></p>

[icetower]

<div></div><div></div><p>Unless you want to play a templar, the only class which might edge you out marginally in terms of pure healing ability prior to 52, you have pretty much the same problems and strengths of all the other healers.</p><p>At lvl 52 you will get torpor, which will pretty much allow you to stop the MT dying.</p><p>Personally, at lvl 60, my problems with contributing to a group arise when general content becomes trivial for the tank, not when it is difficult.</p><p>Message Edited by icetower on <span class="date_text">02-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:39 AM</span></p>

[Finora]

<div></div><div></div><p>It's definately not the class.  I personally can keep a 3 man group alive fighting  3 herioc even and yellow con groups at one time. It is tough, and there are some close calls, but it is definately doable as long as it isn't every pull. I am 59 though,  so I have a couple of healing choices available that you don't, but I was sole healing in similar situations all along the way as well. And it ,of course, isn't just any group, (tank's my husband, 3rd man is a guild enchanter we've known for years). We work very well together.</p><p>However, keeping a normal group alive against single even/yellow con herioc encounters shouldn't be too hard. Blues should be quite easy.</p><p>All that being said, you could be the best healer in the world and if you have a crappy tank you are going to have a tough time keeping them up.  ESPECIALLY if the tank can't keep agro off of you.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Calendri on <span class="date_text">02-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:46 AM</span></p>

[Banditman]

In the early phases of the game, I find that I often need to inspect the "MT" before I go into battle.Earlier this weekend I grouped my 25 Templar with a 25 Berzerker.  On the surface, this looks great right?Wrong.The Zerker had less mitigation (by a lot) than my Templar.Until you get into the late 40's, it's pretty much "beware" when you join a pickup group.  Look very carefully at the gear of your tank.  Don't be afraid to ask if the tank has upgraded his taunts and stances to Adept 1 or better.Mystics can heal just fine.  Whether the tank can take a hit or keep aggro is totally beyond our control.I have left plenty of groups immediately after inspecting the "MT".  It's not a crime to walk away when you see that things aren't what they should be.  There is absolutely NO excuse for a tank to not have common crafted armor.  No excuse at all.<div></div>

[Mystiq]

<div></div>I think you just need a few more levels, and to keep up with your gear and spell upgrades. These upgrades, depending on the item and your class, aren't going to trivialize the game for you, because too easy isn't fun, and leaves nothing to be desired for the future. Don't be disappointed in having to maintain good quality gear, be thankful that you are able to afford it, because not everyone can. There will always be tough levels and tough groups, someone that can heal better and worse than you can, try not to let it get you down. I personally don't think that Mystics are weak, but any class is only as good as the player, and the same goes for any group you're in.

[Munter78]

<div></div>Skimmed over this thread, but anywho, I dont feel mystics are  that weak, you just really need to upgrade everything <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Im lvl 60, and can take down up to lvl 57^^^ and lvl 55^^^ named mobs usually without too much of an issue.  Shammies can handle their own quite well. 

[Terq]

<div></div><p>I am pretty sure that the agro component of the Runic line was removed, or at least severly reduced.  Can anyone confirm that?</p><p>In addition to what everyone is saying here, make sure that your tank is taunting.  More than anything else, that is their job.  Just after LU13, just about every tank had to readjust their play style.  Damage alone was not enough to keep agro.  The tank has to taunt, and taunt often.</p><p>"Proximity pulls" are a no-no.  If a tank doesn't pull with a taunt, make sure that their next cast is a taunt, or you guys are going to have problems. </p>

[tebion]

the runic aggro problem is long been fixed. i never ever had any problems of that kind any more since back when they said it was fixed, none at all.<div></div>

[KnowH]

<div></div><p>I'm a monk first and foremost, but I recently got a second account to 2-box a healer.  I've been mentoring with my monk down to the mystic and all I have to say is, I LOVE IT!!!  I can duo heroics around the same level (though it's not easy, and my monk is all ad3 or better) but when my monk was at that level range, I would get eaten alive by such mobs.</p><p>The monk/mystic combo is really a neat duo since the monk's avoidance makes wards more apt to last for the full duration.  The only time I've been beat down really bad is when I've taken on a tough named mob with a ton of adds that all chip away at the wards.  For a single mob (which is a monk's forte' anyway), though, it's just awesome.  In the past when duo'ing with a healer, I was always with a fury, a templar or an inquisitor and I have to say that keeping me alive with those healers required a lot of steady heals.  Whereas, when I two box, I'll throw up a ward with the mystic and concentrate on getting agro with taunts and attacks, while keeping an eye on the ward icon.  Once the ward drops, I cue up another ward and maybe a heal if I'm low on health.  I only ocassionally do a damage spell with my mystic and focus solely on keeping my monk warded at all times, which isn't hard in my experience, since the single ward will usually have been refreshed by the time the previous ward wears off.</p><p>Granted, my mystic is only at level 20 presently (after a few days of play), but I'm really looking forward to learning the ins-and-outs of the class and understanding the dynamic of a mystic/monk duo as I progress.</p>

[Sillililygirl]

<div></div>I started enjoying my mystic a lot more once I realized mystics ward first and heal second.  If the mystic in a group is doing her job ... and the group can handle agro right... the mystic should have very little healing to do.I'll second a number of things already in the thread...1.  Keep in mind wards do = agro.2. Debuffs really are useful, specially when solo'ing.3. Some levels are better than others; there was a point when I JUST got my new and group ward and got 1 of 'em in master and I was ruling.... (the MT in the group said something about mystics not sucking like he thought)4. Make sure you have those spells upgraded and that your equipment is not lacking either.5. (edit) and oh yea :p Mystics are definitely playable! (though, sometimes boring if you are only ever primary healer in a group .. and sometimes frustrating if you are grouped with a healer that doesn't communicate with you)side note: Being in the middle of rezing a group member and finding out the other healer already rezed him but didn't say anything is annoying.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Sillililygirl on <span class="date_text">02-12-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:32 AM</span></p>

[Goozman]

<div>It 100% ain't the class. My cousin and I play monk/mystic alts (I'm the monk) and we duo yellow heroics with only moderate difficulty, and our combined dps is pretty low. He isn't that well equipped and uses a range of app4 - ad3 spells, certainly hasn't spent godly amounts of money (I kinda have tho). For us it was better before the revamp cuz I did a lot more damage, but it's still doable.</div>

[thedu]

<span><blockquote><hr>tebion wrote:the runic aggro problem is long been fixed. i never ever had any problems of that kind any more since back when they said it was fixed, none at all.<div></div><hr></blockquote>This is still situational. I've had problems depending on the situation. Have anyone aggro 'grouped' mobs by proximity/body pull...it's still there, just not as bad as before.</span><div></div>

[BALTO]

yes recieving agro from other members unintentional pulls of mobs or usen body pull is still there on our group buff, BUT its substantialy easier for it to be pulled away...<div></div>

[tebion]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>thedump wrote:<span>This is still situational. I've had problems depending on the situation. Have anyone aggro 'grouped' mobs by proximity/body pull...it's still there, just not as bad as before.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>bodypulls are ALWAYS a bad idea when grouped with a shaman (and i guess its the same with the other priests as well).at least we can take some hits and personally i dont see the current aggro generation via runic as more than reasonable, its not a bug any more but it is a feature of our class we have to and can cope with.</span></div>

[thedu]

<span><blockquote><hr>tebion wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>thedump wrote:<span>This is still situational. I've had problems depending on the situation. Have anyone aggro 'grouped' mobs by proximity/body pull...it's still there, just not as bad as before.</span><hr></blockquote>bodypulls are ALWAYS a bad idea when grouped with a shaman (and i guess its the same with the other priests as well).<font color="#ff0033">I have to disagree with you here. I've never noticed a Druid or Cleric get pounced like we do with body pulls - Although I do agree in general body pulls are wrong.</font>at least we can take some hits and personally i dont see the current aggro generation via runic as more than reasonable, its not abug any more but it is a feature of our class we have to and can cope with.</span><span><span><font color="#ff0033">It's not so much an issue with being able to take a hit, as it with an incorrect game mechanism.  If you have been grouped with Defiler you see messages with similar buffs that are non-stop which essentially say 'your blah ward has regenerated <so many> hit points'.  The question I have is, is the runic line doing something similar but not generating that message and if so is it generating an incorrect amount hate towards the Shaman. I know others may disagree with me, but this to me is a broken mechanism, and while tolerable doesn't warrant an excuse.</font></span></span></div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[tebion]

<div></div><div><span>of course you are right, druids and clerics don't have the same scale of bodypullaggro as shaman, but well, for me that is one part of the job. We have arguably the highest aggro "heals" but combined with it we have arguably the best for high hitters, too. that's a good tradeoff for me and i am content with it.<blockquote><hr>thedump wrote:<span><blockquote><div><span></span><span><span><font color="#ff0033">It's not so much an issue with being able to take a hit, as it with an incorrect game mechanism.  If you have been grouped with Defiler you see messages with similar buffs that are non-stop which essentially say 'your blah ward has regenerated hit points'.  The question I have is, is the runic line doing something similar but not generating that message and if so is it generating an incorrect amount hate towards the Shaman. I know others may disagree with me, but this to me is a broken mechanism, and while tolerable doesn't warrant an excuse.</font></span></span></div></blockquote></span><div></div><hr></blockquote>unless i understand you wrong (english is not my motherlanguage) you mean that runic doesn't generate the ward regeneration message? hmm, i didnt check in the last few days as i played some alts until KoS release but i always got the message before that, of course only when i got hit.But for me personally runic doesn't generate too much aggro for what the buff is worth, atm its exactly where i like it, too few to get aggro from a tank that's worth his armor and weaponry and enough to get aggro over a squishy mage when he bodypulls <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></div>

[Thatdumbg]

<div></div>   Last time I saw the RT message spam was a few nights back (I didn't play this weekend). As far as the aggro from it, the spell was changed to have zero aggro associated with it. I haven't really noticed any issues with my tank prox pulling since that change, but then again, I don't preward at all.EDIT: I suppose its possible that a) he ends up attacking on the way back, or b) his inflaming defense procs, but keeping the mob targetted I don't even see my aggro hit me for a second anymore (it used to ping to me and right back).<div></div><p>Message Edited by Thatdumbguy on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:40 AM</span></p>

[thedu]

<span><blockquote><hr>tebion wrote:<div></div><div><span><blockquote>But for me personally runic doesn't generate too much aggro for what the buff is worth, atm its exactly where i like it, too few to get aggro from a tank that's worth his armor and weaponry and enough to get aggro over a squishy mage when he bodypulls <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />unless i understand you wrong (english is not my motherlanguage) you mean that runic doesn't generate the ward regeneration message? hmm, i didnt check in the last few days as i played some alts until KoS release but i always got the message before that, of course only when i got hit.</blockquote></span></div><hr></blockquote>No, the runic line still generates the message. I should have written it better. The defiler buff generate's the message <font color="#ff0033">outside and inside</font> of combat. When I mentioned to a defiler in my guild he said that he just turns off the message in chat window. So my thinking is that our buff is doing something similar but NOT generating constant messages outside of combat.  This may have nothing to with the aggro issue, but I sometimes believe it does.</span><div></div>

[tebion]

ah, i see, well, i guess then the defiler version is bugged, runic just gives a message when it actually regens, not permanentlyi would be quite annoyed if it would generate permanent messages <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Zabumt]

<div>Of all the priest aggro magnets on a raid, shamans seem to be the worst.  I swear, on every big named pull (unless rescue is used by the main tank) a shaman catches aggro and dies.  A couple of weeks ago my guild did gates and the MT mystic was having one hell of a time with pull aggro.</div><div> </div><div>I'd say there's something either borked there or the devs decided to program in some AI to account for shaman usefulness on raids hehe.  Of course, as a Templar I've been there.  Cast a few reactives before a pull and watch the Templar splat.  Unless, of course, the tank knows what he/she is doing.</div><div> </div><div>But of all the priest pull kills, shaman rank number one in my experience.</div><div> </div>

[tebion]

<div></div>well, thats the backside of our argueably best "heals" (which is good, otherwise it would be out of balance imo)the ward is the only special priest heal that can use up its complete power in one big bang -> with the aggro changes of LU13 we get more aggro on high hits than clerics or druids, where a tick/reactive-hit is normally much lower than a full warded blow.thats something the shaman have to cope with or we get huuuuuge repairbills <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div><p>Message Edited by tebion on <span class="date_text">02-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:09 AM</span></p>