Debating between Mystic/Warden

[Peglegcrook]

<div>Well, i have decided to start a priest type alt, and am debating between the warden and mystic.  my understanding of the main difference between the two is as follows: </div><div> </div><div>wardens do heals over time, they have a few roots, and are able to do pretty decent DoT damage</div><div>mystics dont do as much healing as they ward, and their DPS is pretty decent.</div><div> </div><div>other than that, i really dont know a whole lot of differences between the two, so i wanted to post in each forum, to get opinions from both sides as far as what are the advantages and disadvantages of each.</div><div> </div><div>all help is appreciated</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Karlen]

<div></div>>>>mystics dont do as much healing as they ward, and their DPS is pretty decent.<<<I don't think the DPS of mystics is anything to write home about.   It takes quite a while to kill anything.I'm 46 and a typical fight against a white single-down-arrow mob will look something like:stam debuffwardstam debuffHO triggerCold DoTDisease DoTDPS debuffDPS debuffHO triggerNukeCold DoTWardHO triggerNukeDisease DoTAt this point I throw a nuke as necessary to finish it off.  For yellow down arrows an extra couple of HOs will normally be necessary.The advantage of wards is that rarely do I take any damage at all.  If I ever reach half-health when soloing, then it is a sign that it is time to run.  For white or blue mobs, I may choose not to ward, especially once I have cast all the debuffs because the mob won't do enough damage to matter on me.EDIT: I don't know if it make a difference, but soloing, I find that mystics don't do well against multiple opponents due to having primarily single-target spells and debuffs.   I tend to get the best results from fighting high-yellow single-up-arrows or orange single-down-arrows (ie, at 46 I tend to focus on level 50-51 mobs).<div></div><p>Message Edited by Zotar99 on <span class="date_text">01-12-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:16 PM</span></p>

[Eepop]

I have a mystic and a warden (although at different levels) and I would say if anyone has an edge in the DPS it would be wardens.<div></div>

[wushupork]

<div></div><p>Warden: Heal over times primary, direct heal not as potent with small h.o.t. effect evac, root, wis buffing, fair dps, leather armor, agi/elemental resist debuffs.</p><p>Mystic: Wards primary, more potent direct heal all at once, str/sta/agi buffing, poor dps, chain armor, debuff vs elemental/pois/disease/mental, debuff stamina/str/dps, slows.</p><p>General skinny: Wardens solo better due to more dps/root. Both can effectively heal groups. Under harder conditions mystics with ward stacking can deal with spike damage a bit more effectively but recovery can be trickier because of longer cast times. However, given the ability to debuff mob str/dps/attack speed does make a noticible difference healing on 'cutting edge' heroic encounters.</p><p>Often times I duo with a warden, she typically ends up tanking just from being able to get the damage out there first off. I'll open with resist debuff and ward then just play HO pingpong until whatever is dead.</p><p>Heal wise: As stated above, with wards mystic prevents dmg, but when the dmg is done it's a bit tougher to recover it. In most situations it's not a major deal given the job is being done right. It's kinda sexy seein a warden drop a hot and seeing 400 400 400 400 etc. It's equally sexy seein tank HP not move a smidgen while working with a heroic encounter and adds. Balance is good <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Dmg wise: I cant accurately compare the two, just know we're not as good. However mystic wise: we get two decent dots, disease one ticks slowly and lasts long enough can often keep it up on two mobs at once, ice one ticks fast so often times you can throw that on w/out wasting much (if any) mana. One single target nuke with snare effect- snare almost not worth mentioning <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Doesnt do *alot* of dmg but quick recast for hittin HOs. One group encounter AoE which is more potent than our single target nuke <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>In conclusion, if you intend on soloing primarily, warden dps makes it less 'epic' <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Grouping: either works, they just play a bit diff. Mystic with chain and melee-esque buffs is a bit heartier. If you're still having a tough time deciding.. very soon they're going to eliminate the two step progression to get to the final classes.. so you can get a feel for each one without having to burn thru 20+ levels to do so.</p><p> </p>

[BBouch]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><font color="#ff9900">Why a Warden or Mystic-only? Queynos thing perhaps?</font><font color="#ff9900"></font><font color="#ff9900"></font><font color="#ff9900">Wardens get some ulitility later, like evac. In group play thats really handy if you're the evac person.Wardens wear light/leather armour.</font><font color="#ff9900">Mystics best 'dps' is their Debuff not their DoTs. This also happens to be the Forte (speciality) of the shammys.Mystics can wear light/leather/chain armour.</font><font color="#ff9900"><font color="#ffcc00">Just so that you know what you're heading into, these are the lvl 60 numbers for a Mystic DPS for a solo target (excluding debuffs/HO's):</font><font color="#ffcc00"></font><font color="#ffcc00"></font><font color="#ffcc00">*Wrath of Grey (Master 1) : 330-403 cold. Slows target movement by 42%. 2s cast time. 3s recast</font><font color="#ffcc00"></font><font color="#ffcc00">*Slothful Spirit(Master 1): 302-370 Divine Damage when target casts a spell. Triggers up to 4 times. (max 36 seconds duration). </font></font><font color="#ffcc00">2s cast time. Also drains some mana. 20s recast. Lotto DPS.</font><font color="#ffcc00"></font><font color="#ffcc00">*Arctic Flames(Master 1): 160-196 cold damage /  3 seconds. (12 second duration). </font><font color="#ffcc00">2s cast time. 15s recast</font><font color="#ffcc00"></font><font color="#ffcc00">*Fevered Pox (Master 1): 128 Disease damage / 4 seconds (24 second duration). </font><font color="#ffcc00">1s cast time. 8s recast</font><font color="#ffcc00"></font><font color="#ffcc00">If you stacked them it takes 7 seconds to cast them all, of which only three work against all mobs (Slothful is a lotto damage dependent on mobs).So generally, adding the numbers the typical best hit to get off all the spells over 5 seconds (excuding debuffs) you can get is 196+128+403+(196)= 855 over 5 seconds. This translates to 171 DPS.  </font><font color="#ffcc00">Note that the Max DPS over 5 seconds is 403+370+403=1176 (assuming you win the lotto). This translates to 235.5 DPS. </font><font color="#ffcc00"></font><font color="#ff9900"><font color="#ffcc00"></font><font color="#ffcc00">Max possible damage in an instant with lotto = 1097 if all spells proc at the same second. (Mystical hit :p, I've never seen it happen)</font></font><font color="#ff9900">/Agree with most posts. If you see two Mystics in a duel, do wish them a happy new year for 2007. <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span></font><div></div><p><span class="time_text"></span></p><p><span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by BBoucher on <span class="date_text">01-12-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:21 PM</span></p>

[Peglegcrook]

<div></div><p>well, the reason im going with warden or mystic is simple.  im looking to expand my guilds type of characters-me and a few RL friends started one, and we have a templar and fury--the reason im not going freeport is because i already have 2 toons over there, and only 1 within qeynos.  i think from what i have read, that im gonna stick with the shaman route, due to the fact that i prefer group utility to solo-ablilty.</p><p> </p><p>thanks to everyone for their help</p>

[Albrig]

With the Mystic's HO trigger, starting with the Disease DoT produces much more damage I noticed instead of starting first with DD. It also stuns. I haven't done it the other way round, simply because I haven't.<div></div>

[tebion]

<span><blockquote><hr>Albright wrote:With the Mystic's HO trigger, starting with the Disease DoT produces much more damage I noticed instead of starting first with DD. It also stuns. I haven't done it the other way round, simply because I haven't.<div></div><hr></blockquote></span>reason is simplepox is a higher level spell than winters -> since the recent changes the level of the wheel-starter spell determines the additional damage of the wheel, nothing else.<div></div>

[Karlen]

>>>With the Mystic's HO trigger, starting with the Disease DoT produces much more damage I noticed instead of starting first with DD. It also stuns. I haven't done it the other way round, simply because I haven't.<<<Do you mean it causes more total damage or that you get a much bigger hit when the HO completes?  If you finish with a DD, then the DD+HO will make a big splash.I usually do the disease DoT second just because that's the way that the timers tend to work out.<div></div>

[tebion]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Zotar99 wrote:Do you mean it causes more total damage or that you get a much bigger hit when the HO completes?  If you finish with a DD, then the DD+HO will make a big splash.I usually do the disease DoT second just because that's the way that the timers tend to work out.<div></div><hr></blockquote>you could even finish it with a non-damage spell (if we had any for our wheel, hehe) and you would get the damageit is completely irrelevant if you stop with a DD or a DoT, the additional nuke will be determined by the level of the first spell in the wheel.edit: i mean casting level, not quality level of the spell, just to make sure <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div><p>Message Edited by tebion on <span class="date_text">01-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:17 AM</span></p>

[Karlen]

<span>>>you could even finish it with a non-damage spell (if we had any for our wheel, hehe) and you would get the damageit is completely irrelevant if you stop with a DD or a DoT, the additional nuke will be determined by the level of the first spell in the wheel.<<<So the power of an HO is determined by the level of the first spell, not the second?  I was always under the impression that both spells counted, but I have never really experimented with it.</span><div></div>

[Peglegcrook]

<div></div><p>well, now, i have a question...when soloing, i cant really tell if its better to ward myself, or just heal myself, but i do tend to run oop much faster when warding--any thoughts?</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Karlen]

>>>well, now, i have a question...when soloing, i cant really tell if its better to ward myself, or just heal myself, but i do tend to run oop much faster when warding--any thoughts?<<<I prefer warding as it tends to prevent most (but not all) interrupts.  If I am fighting white or below mobs, I tend to ward once near the beginning of the fight and then not again unless it looks like it is necessary.  Between debuffs, my concentration ward (Runic Shield?) and imbued armor, I can counter most incoming damage from mobs white or below without needing to ward.  On yellow mobs, I will usually need to keep a ward up.The other advantage of warding is that it leaves you at or close to full health, which means your full health bar is a buffer in the event that things start to go wrong and you need to run. <div></div>

[ModPlod]

<div></div><div>Depends how you are going to play your new toon.  If long term you looking for raiding or just for small groups etc.</div><div> </div><div>I know one thing about wardens in our 24 guild raids they can easy make top 12 DPS.  Out DPS guardians and SK when we need to burn down trash mobs fast.</div><div> </div><div>Mystics are fun but I find having to kill mobs solo when questing on my own  a real drag.  If I had to choose again especially after all the updates I personally would go warden just so i dont spend all day waiting for stuff to die and getting interrupted every 20 seconds.</div>

[Nacire]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Zotar99 wrote:<div></div>>>>mystics dont do as much healing as they ward, and their DPS is pretty decent.<<<I don't think the DPS of mystics is anything to write home about.   It takes quite a while to kill anything.I'm 46 and a typical fight against a white single-down-arrow mob will look something like:stam debuffwardstam debuffHO triggerCold DoTDisease DoTDPS debuffDPS debuffHO triggerNukeCold DoTWardHO triggerNukeDisease DoTAt this point I throw a nuke as necessary to finish it off.  For yellow down arrows an extra couple of HOs will normally be necessary.The advantage of wards is that rarely do I take any damage at all.  If I ever reach half-health when soloing, then it is a sign that it is time to run.  For white or blue mobs, I may choose not to ward, especially once I have cast all the debuffs because the mob won't do enough damage to matter on me.EDIT: I don't know if it make a difference, but soloing, I find that mystics don't do well against multiple opponents due to having primarily single-target spells and debuffs.   I tend to get the best results from fighting high-yellow single-up-arrows or orange single-down-arrows (ie, at 46 I tend to focus on level 50-51 mobs).<div></div><p>Message Edited by Zotar99 on <span class="date_text">01-12-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:16 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>Either you could REALLY use some upgrades or the different style I use is just VASTLY superior and I doubt the latter...</p><p>Single down arrow white solo mob takes under 2 rounds of dots for me and fight is like this...</p><p>1) Cast grp ward and wait the one tick to get mana back to full.</p><p>2) Pull with grp sta/resist debuff.</p><p>3) Have single target sta debuff queued to cast.</p><p>4) Turn on autoattack.</p><p>5) Once 2nd sta debuff is casting I queue up the HO starter and hover on the disease dot till I see HO wheel.</p><p>6) Cast disease dot followed by cold dot to complete HO.</p><p>7) Wait for cold dot's recast timer to show up and retrigger HO.</p><p><img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Again cast disease first even if not expired yet followed by cold to finish HO. </p><p>9) Watch mob fall dead 2-3 ticks later.</p><p>I always lead with the disease dot so that it's ticking while I cast cold dot which has shorter duration AND longer cast time so it puts their endings much closer together that way.  I was doing this with full adept 3's on the debuffs and dots, and since I've gotten slothful spirit I'll toss it on casters but don't usually bother on other mobs.</p>

[Nacire]

<div></div>Also forgot to mention that doing it this way I don't even bother with drinks when solo'n regular solo mobs, I just don't burn enough mana to need it.  And the grp ward has NEVER dropped before the mob does on anything less than an arrow up yellow solo mob.

[Karlen]

>>>Either you could REALLY use some upgrades or the different style I use is just VASTLY superior and I doubt the latter...<<<Almost all my spells are Adept 1 with the exception of the (Wailing?) Haze debuff is Master I and my single-target stam debuff is Adept III.  I just got a new concentration ward (Runic Talisman?) and that helps ensure that I don't need to bother with the DPS debuffs on white or below.I also just noticed that my int and wisdom are not very high (in the 60-80 range). I am going to go back and look for equipment that doesn't do str and sta (which I have buffs for).  I will try leading with the disease DoT and see how that works.Thanks<div></div>

[Thandi]

<font color="#6633ff">Granted I am only lvl 9 but my fights usually last about 30-60 seconds .. with min downtime ..... when does this change? lvl 20? 30?40?OR is it if you keep your spells current to what you can use/afford battles should be painless going for your lvl and not being superman</font><div></div>

[Karlen]

<font color="#6633ff">Granted I am only lvl 9 but my fights usually last about 30-60 seconds .. with min downtime ..... when does this change? lvl 20? 30?40?OR is it if you keep your spells current to what you can use/afford battles should be painless going for your lvl and not being superman<font color="#ffffff">With mostly adept 1 spells, at level 47 fights still last about the same length of time -- grouped mobs (solo encounters with down arrows) tend to take a bit longer as our abilities tend to be single-target.  I find that in most cases, battle is pretty painless -- wards protect from most damage. Usually the "pain" comes from trying to micromanage my power pool to use  only as much power as is completely necessary, reducing the downtime -- for example, deciding whether to ward or to take the damage and save the power.</font></font><div></div>

[Thandi]

Yeah I cant wait til i get wards and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]s <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> my RL friend just reached lvl 20 Paladin, so hopefully we will be able to duo easily. Reading the classes info on both mystic and pally it sounds viable.also im curious what races did you guys pick for your mystic?<div></div>

[Karlen]

>>>also im curious what races did you guys pick for your mystic?<<<Mine is a froglok.<div></div>

[Eepop]

Mine is a wood elf, but he had a mental break down and thinks he's a gnome.<div></div>

[Nacire]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Zotar99 wrote:>>>Either you could REALLY use some upgrades or the different style I use is just VASTLY superior and I doubt the latter...<<<Almost all my spells are Adept 1 with the exception of the (Wailing?) Haze debuff is Master I and my single-target stam debuff is Adept III.  I just got a new concentration ward (Runic Talisman?) and that helps ensure that I don't need to bother with the DPS debuffs on white or below.I also just noticed that my int and wisdom are not very high (in the 60-80 range). I am going to go back and look for equipment that doesn't do str and sta (which I have buffs for).  I will try leading with the disease DoT and see how that works.Thanks<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Well honestly I'd say for anyone these days that actually cares to be the best they can adept 3 and legendary gear is the bare minimum.  All it takes is a little time (ok if yer unlucky it can be a LOT hehe) harvesting for the rares and any rares you get that you don't need will more than finance the crafting fees to get gear and spells made.  I would also highly recommend you take a break from the grind and at least work on any of the ESSENTIAL heritage items you may have skipped over.  For mystic that would be Golden Efreeti Boots, Screaming Mace (less important if you have prismatic but STILL usefull then), Manastone, and Flowing Black Silk Sash.  I would rate all of those as must haves.  Also buff rings are very important.  You can go with non-rares for the less important stats if you wish as they are pretty cheap and not THAT much different.  I would carry rings for at least wis + int (rare if possible) and agil + sta rings which can be rare if you have the spares or just normal. </p><p>I know there will be some that read this and immediately discount it by reciting to themself "must be nice to be rich" or something to that effect, but money has almost nothing to do with it, and matter of fact I made money when trying to gear myself up for each new tier.  It never fails that after you no longer want any of a certain type of rare that will be half the rares you get, well those are sell bait. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Don't limit yourself to what you find on the brokers for crafted gear, get the rares and have it made yourself.  Even if you just BUY the rare and pay a crafter you will usually end up paying half what you would have buying it off the market.</p><p>Now for you specifically since you are so close to 50 I wouldn't sweat the gear itself so much but do whatever it takes to get those spells upgraded to adept 3, and keep yer eyes peeled for masters.  Personally I wouldn't buy a master for a spell I'm replacing in less than 5 levels unless it's insanely cheap but those decisions are upto you.  Seriously though forget adept 1 exists.  It's vendor trash and not much else.  Adept 3's aren't all that hard to get and it's profitable trying for them as well.</p>