Finding Balance - WIS vs INT

[KindredHeart]

<DIV>I'm sure every Mystic has their own opinions as to what the right ratio of WIS vs INT is, but I thought I'd start a thread to discuss it all the same.  This thread is directed toward the level 60 Mystic, anyone can ofcourse chime in but please post with level 60 stats and gear in mind.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At what point (give number) do you feel like you have enough WIS?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm fairly certain none of us ever feel like we have enough INT, but I'll ask anyway...At what point (give number) do you feel like you have enough INT?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you had all the plat in the game tomorrow just which gear items would you rush out and buy (or if you are lucky enough to already have them - which gear items do you consider essential to being a well dressed level 60 Mystic)?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At level 60, what do you think the ideal balance of WIS and INT is?</DIV>

[paisan]

I would get my wisdom to the cap and then work on other stats, resistances and mitigation too not just int. Damage/Int isn't that important to me gearwise... adept 3 on dots is easier/just as good.

[LordNikonIII]

Well <DIV>I have been given this alot of thought myself now that my wis is over 300, I was going to add a INT braclet and maybe even a wis Plus int earing.  The Int will help my spells land which will many be used for soloing, as I raid most of the time. I may change gear between soloing and raiding.  I was thinking if I could get my INT to 150 I would be happy with that.  Just my thoughts on this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lord Nikin (formley Lnikn)</DIV> <DIV>lvl 60 Dark Elf Mystic</DIV> <DIV>Lords of the Triple Moons</DIV>

[Thatdumbg]

I'm happy when I can be raidbuffed (with potions, dont mind that) to 435ish, as the hard cap is 420 plus your base racial stat.<div></div>

[Kana]

<P>Perhaps it would be better for us to post our INT along with the damage listed for each spell.  This way, we could more easily assess the benefits of additional INT.</P> <P><STRONG>100 INT:</STRONG></P> <UL> <LI>Arctic Flames (Master 1) = <EM>167 - 204</EM></LI> <LI>Fevered Pox (Master 1) = <EM>134</EM></LI> <LI>Wrath of the Grey (Adept 3) = <EM>300 - 367</EM></LI> <LI>Wrath of the Ancients (Adept 3) = <EM>522</EM></LI> <LI>Slothful Spirit (Adept 3) = <EM>275 - 336</EM></LI></UL> <P><STRONG>50 INT:</STRONG></P> <UL> <LI>Arctic Flames (Master 1) = <EM>158 - 193</EM></LI> <LI>Fevered Pox (Master 1) = <EM>126</EM></LI> <LI>Wrath of the Grey (Adept 3) = <EM>284 - 387</EM></LI> <LI>Wrath of the Ancients (Adept 3) = <EM>494</EM></LI> <LI>Slothful Spirit (Adept 3) = <EM>260 - 318</EM></LI></UL> <P><STRONG>Kanali - 60 Mystic - Steamfont</STRONG></P>

[kenji]

Wrath of the Grey has error, please fix, after that, if mod see this pls delete (in case i forgot)

[Pingu_cfc]

<P>INT? whats that ? lol your a mystic even if you had 300 INT your damage would still suck compared to any other class.</P> <P>Personally after WIS i care more about STA to try keep myself alive if i pull aggro. My solo buffed stats are 342 WIS 290STR 290 STA my agi and int are around 40 lol.</P>

[casac]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kanali wrote:<BR> <P>Perhaps it would be better for us to post our INT along with the damage listed for each spell.  This way, we could more easily assess the benefits of additional INT.</P> <P><STRONG>100 INT:</STRONG></P> <UL> <LI>Arctic Flames (Master 1) = <EM>167 - 204</EM></LI> <LI>Fevered Pox (Master 1) = <EM>134</EM></LI> <LI>Wrath of the Grey (Adept 3) = <EM>300 - 367</EM></LI> <LI>Wrath of the Ancients (Adept 3) = <EM>522</EM></LI> <LI>Slothful Spirit (Adept 3) = <EM>275 - 336</EM></LI></UL> <P><STRONG>50 INT:</STRONG></P> <UL> <LI>Arctic Flames (Master 1) = <EM>158 - 193</EM></LI> <LI>Fevered Pox (Master 1) = <EM>126</EM></LI> <LI>Wrath of the Grey (Adept 3) = <EM>284 - 387</EM></LI> <LI>Wrath of the Ancients (Adept 3) = <EM>494</EM></LI> <LI>Slothful Spirit (Adept 3) = <EM>260 - 318</EM></LI></UL> <P><STRONG>Kanali - 60 Mystic - Steamfont</STRONG></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Not quite clear for me what this means. Am I right with these statements:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. The more INT the more effective a spell is (all spells or just attack spells?)</DIV> <DIV>2. The more INT the higher the probability not to get interrupted while casting</DIV> <DIV>3. The more WIS the higher power (which is the caster-currency)</DIV> <DIV>4. The more WIS the higher resistance against arcane</DIV> <DIV>?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by casacki on <span class=date_text>12-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:24 PM</span>

[tebion]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>casacki wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div>Not quite clear for me what this means. Am I right with these statements:</div> <div> </div> <div>1. The more INT the more effective a spell is (all spells or just attack spells?)</div> <div>2. The more INT the higher the probability not to get interrupted while casting</div> <div>3. The more WIS the higher power (which is the caster-currency)</div> <div>4. The more WIS the higher resistance against arcane</div> <div>?</div> <div> </div><p>Message Edited by casacki on <span class="date_text">12-22-2005</span> <span class="time_text">03:24 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>1. int only affects your damage spells -> nukes and dot's, not the other spells or your melee damage 2. no, definitely not 3. for priests yes, for casters nope, their primary stat is int 4. the more WIS the higher ALL your resists are</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by tebion on <span class=date_text>12-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:28 AM</span>

[Terq]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kanali wrote:<BR> <P>Perhaps it would be better for us to post our INT along with the damage listed for each spell.  This way, we could more easily assess the benefits of additional INT.</P> <P><STRONG>100 INT:</STRONG></P> <UL> <LI>Arctic Flames (Master 1) = <EM>167 - 204</EM></LI> <LI>Fevered Pox (Master 1) = <EM>134</EM></LI> <LI>Wrath of the Grey (Adept 3) = <EM>300 - 367</EM></LI> <LI>Wrath of the Ancients (Adept 3) = <EM>522</EM></LI> <LI>Slothful Spirit (Adept 3) = <EM>275 - 336</EM></LI></UL> <P><STRONG>50 INT:</STRONG></P> <UL> <LI>Arctic Flames (Master 1) = <EM>158 - 193</EM></LI> <LI>Fevered Pox (Master 1) = <EM>126</EM></LI> <LI>Wrath of the Grey (Adept 3) = <EM>284 - 387</EM></LI> <LI>Wrath of the Ancients (Adept 3) = <EM>494</EM></LI> <LI>Slothful Spirit (Adept 3) = <EM>260 - 318</EM></LI></UL> <P><STRONG>Kanali - 60 Mystic - Steamfont</STRONG></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>/wave Kanali</P> <P>This seems to echo my sentiments on intellegence.  WIth our low base numbers, intellegence just doesn't do that much to help our damage.  An increase of 50 intellegence provides an increase of about 7% in our damage output.  That just isn't enough for me to worry about.  If that 7% holds (not sure that it would ), one tic from pox or flames would more than make up the difference of even a 200 point intellegence increase. </P>

[tebion]

adding a few more shadowmen type mobs to dof instead of the one in Poets Palace would help us more than 500 more int <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> i guess our nukes are just too small to see int make a huge difference. If a nuke has a base of 5k 7% can look much better <div></div>

[Banditman]

That's exactly what I said last time this topic came up.INT is worthless to a Mystic, we just don't put out enough base damage for it to matter.

[thedu]

The crazy thing is the more WIS item's I've accruing the less my INT has become. And I do mean less..like 12!!! <div></div>

[Fizwi]

Kanali,Would you mind posting a few more data points for different INT values?  I'm trying to compile a mathematical way to evaluate the effects of INT on damage.  They don't have to be round -- perhaps some numbers at your lowest possible and highest possible INT?<b>Based on your numbers so far, you will see a 1% increase in spell damage for every 9 INT added</b>.  The increase is comparative to the 50 INT value...I have no idea if that's the proper baseline.If anyone else is level 60 and has their damage spells at that level, feel free to chime in!<div></div>

[Kana]

<P>Sure thing...I'll add in some more points for reference sometime this weekend.  I'm wondering if there isn't a softcap of sorts on the low end; e.g. anything below 30 INT or something makes no difference at all.</P> <P>As has been noted, we do so little damage our INT really doesn't matter, but I'm getting bored at 60 and am more curious than anything.  I'll take every possible advantage I can get.  :smileyhappy:</P> <P><STRONG>Kanali - 60 Mystic - Steamfont</STRONG></P>

[Nacire]

<P>Also a 60 mystic, also same upgrade lvls on all spells..</P> <P><STRONG>24 INT:</STRONG></P> <UL> <LI>Arctic Flames (Master 1) = <EM>153 - 187</EM> <LI>Fevered Pox (Master 1) = <EM>123</EM> <LI>Wrath of the Grey (Adept 3) = 275<EM> - 337</EM> <LI>Wrath of the Ancients (Adept 3) = <EM>479</EM> <LI>Slothful Spirit (Adept 3) = <EM>253 - 309</EM></LI></UL> <P><STRONG>163 INT:</STRONG></P> <UL> <LI>Arctic Flames (Master 1) = <EM>178 - 218</EM> <LI>Fevered Pox (Master 1) = <EM>143</EM> <LI>Wrath of the Grey (Adept 3) = 321<EM> - 392</EM> <LI>Wrath of the Ancients (Adept 3) = <EM>558</EM> <LI>Slothful Spirit (Adept 3) = <EM>294 - 360</EM></LI></UL> <P>I have other gear that could pump it a bit higher if you would like to see the data at higher int than that, the last one is my normal int when flying solo with int ring buff active.</P>

[Nacire]

<P>Also wanted to say that I know someone (prolly a lot of someones) out there is gonna read this and say 139 int added and he added barely any damage, that's not worth it...</P> <P>To those people I ask, did you forget these are dots?</P> <P>Look at just Fevered Pox as it's a set amount every tick it's just easier to compare...</P> <P>139 int = 20 more damage per tick on Fevered Pox which will tick 6 times before expiring, essentially adding 120 damage for the same mana.  While the 20 don't seem that much, when you look at the total effect I'd say it was worth it. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  That's nearly a full other tick of extra damage added, would you really prefer to have a slightly higher power pool and have to cast the whole dot again just to get one more tick of damage out of it to finish the mob?  Granted this becomes a moot point in grps but there is a LOT of solo content out there now, good luck finding groups for every solo quest you wanna do.  If you can then props to ya, most of us can't. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Fizwi]

Thanks for the numbers!  I'll toss them into a sheet when I find free time over the holidays.I too wonder about the lower soft cap.  We'll see if one pops out!Also, I've been compiling data on a similar project for heal upgrades, using data I found on Inquisitor heals.  So far it looks like there's a uniform upgrade percentage across all their heals -- i.e. going from Ad 3 to M1 is a 13.3% gain, M1 to M2, a 3.5% gain... that sort of thing.  Eventually I plan to see if that sort of thing is the same across all classes, so stay tuned!  Could be the basis for a nice spell database!<div></div>

[Fizwi]

Ok, some more info: the latest data backs up the previous findings -- at 60, you receive a 1% increase in damage for every 9 INT over your base.  With a possible maximum of 420 added INT, this means you can increase your damage by about 46.6% over base using INT alone.  (Damage increase is also possible via spell quality, but I haven't done that research yet.)Also, no sign of a softcap between 26 and 50 -- the damage added/INT added ratio was no less than between the other points.PM me if you'd like a copy of the Excel sheet...I can't find an easy way to format it for here, even dumping it to a tab-delimited .txt.<div></div>

[KindredHeart]

<P>Well thus far in the thread seems like there has been some really good feedback about the original WIS - INT balance question I asked.  Thanks all, keep it coming.  Thought I'd pop back in and remention this component of my OP since I wasn't really seeing much response conerning it:</P> <P>If you had all the plat in the game tomorrow just which gear items would you rush out and buy (or if you are lucky enough to already have them - which gear items do you consider essential to being a well dressed level 60 Mystic)?</P>

[Nacire]

<P>No plat needed for the basics really, well not much at least.</P> <P>Ranged Slot = Pearl Orb, not seen anything better to put there yet, and considering the wis/power + resists YES I would get this before you turn any more pearls into spells.</P> <P>Shield = Ageis of Scorn, bascially just join roost grps when ya can, it drops far too often in a one group instance to bother buying it.  Decent wis, 2nd highest shield factor I've seen (which DOES add to avoid, though admitably not much) all around good mystic type stats.</P> <P>Feet = Golden Efreeti Boots, If you don't have these you ARE a [Removed for Content], and the worst kind, a lazy [Removed for Content]. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Seriously though, if you don't have them then get to LS and refuse to zone out till you do.  They are worth it.</P> <P>Weapon = Prismatic Scepter of the Scale, Prismatic quest is way easy now with new lvl caps I see pickup raids doing it on my server.  Get some help, put the time in and get that glowstick.  Pris 2.0 is a VERY minor upgrade for us, it is worthwile if your guild is doing them anyway, but don't stress it, you won't see a huge difference.</P> <DIV>Neck = Amulet of the Swords of Ro, Long quest series but mostly easy and 99% solo.  It starts with Ghassen the Trader at SS docks, and ends with a neck with +14 to wis / int / sta AND Flowing Thought 1.  Yes it's only 1/tick regen, BUT it stacks with any other regen (except another FT1 item) and it's from a mostly solo quest.  You will need at least one person to help on the very last quest and that's it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ring = Ring of the Nightblood, There are other items that are better and also have the Battlement of the Mind effect but NONE that are even approaching the ease of getting this one.  Contested Nightblood in EL, he's even listed on the map if you use eq2map, he's lower level but can still hurt ya but I'll leave tactics discovery up to you, also need to green him before ya fight, don't forget that.  He drops the ring NEARLY every time, though it's not a certainty it is common.  Other ring is up to you, but unless you have battlement on another item, this is highly recommended. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ear = Jade Earring of the Wishbringer, Hmm, I don't remember EXACTLY where this started and I'm too lazy to hit ogaming at the moment so look it up yerself, I do remember it was there. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  What I do remember is the quest took less than 5 minutes, started in the Clefts of Rujark, ended in the next room, and involved killing one epic x 2 critter.  Not bad for a 17 wis earring...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Those are just the parts of my gear I consider pretty attainable for anyone that will put a lil effort into it at least.  I have mix n match fables and legendary stuff for other slots but that's all just luck as to what yer guild loots or you find on brokers.  The above items anyone CAN get, if they wanna try.</DIV>

[Banditman]

Think of it more in terms of quests . . . pretty close to what's above but . . .Do the series of quests for the FT amulet for sure.Do F&I / Deception.Do the Peacock Club up to the point where you can no longer solo it.  There are a lot of intermediate rewards there which can serve as primary and/or resist gear.Do GEB's.  (Saving Soles)Do ROI if you can get the starter.  (Supposed to be more common now)Do Manastone.  (Stilletto's Orders)Outside of that, you're talking raid gear, which I love, but find hard to call "must have".

[KindredHeart]

<DIV>Nacireen, since you mentioned the BoTM ring...do you know of a list (or have the ability to jot one down) of the various BoTM items Mystics can equip?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Banditman, do you still wear the RoI at level 60?  I've seen a few Mystics that do, I've always wondered about the pro and con arguement for doing so though.</DIV><p>Message Edited by KindredHeart on <span class=date_text>12-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:34 PM</span>

[Banditman]

<div></div>If I were fortunate enough to have aquired the starter for ROI, I would wear it when raiding at high levels, but not when doing Heroics.Frankly, power regen is largely irrelevant in Heroic mob situations.  I can't remember the last time a Heroic encounter came even CLOSE to draining my power pool since LU13.  I don't think it's happened.  Oh, I've died.  I've failed to keep a tank alive.  Never for lack of power, at least in a situation involving Heroic flagged mobs.Power regen only makes a significant impact in extended fights, which is to say, raids.Some Battlement Trinkets:Band of Shimmering Spirit (I think that's the name, I wear one, so I really should be sure, but I'm not) - this is a ring - mine came from NiscanithTablet of the Cryptkeeper - this is a ranged / secondary item - mine came from Arch Lich UdalanRuned Combine Talisman - this is a buckler - dropped only by Tremblar to my knowledgeKeep in mind that Battlement items are strictly raid drops.  If you want to talk about cool raid gizmo's we can definitely do that, but I was under the impression you were looking for non-raid items.<p>Message Edited by Banditman on <span class=date_text>12-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:49 PM</span>

[Nacire]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Banditman wrote:<BR> If I were fortunate enough to have aquired the starter for ROI, I would wear it when raiding at high levels, but not when doing Heroics.<BR><BR>Frankly, power regen is largely irrelevant in Heroic mob situations.  I can't remember the last time a Heroic encounter came even CLOSE to draining my power pool since LU13.  I don't think it's happened.  Oh, I've died.  I've failed to keep a tank alive.  Never for lack of power, at least in a situation involving Heroic flagged mobs.<BR><BR>Power regen only makes a significant impact in extended fights, which is to say, raids.<BR><BR><BR>Some Battlement Trinkets:<BR><BR><BR>Band of Shimmering Spirit (I think that's the name, I wear one, so I really should be sure, but I'm not) - this is a ring - mine came from Niscanith<BR>Tablet of the Cryptkeeper - this is a ranged / secondary item - mine came from Arch Lich Udalan<BR>Runed Combine Talisman - this is a buckler - dropped only by Tremblar to my knowledge<BR><BR><BR>Keep in mind that Battlement items are strictly raid drops.  If you want to talk about cool raid gizmo's we can definitely do that, but I was under the impression you were looking for non-raid items.<BR> <P>Message Edited by Banditman on <SPAN class=date_text>12-28-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:49 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Couldn't agree more. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Raids are the only place that the power regen is a must have, and the one ring with BoTM I mentioned only because the mob could be duo'd at 50, and likely solo'd now though I've not tried it.  With the regen items I now have for most xp or instance groups I am in I don't even need drink, I only hit a drink if the pulls are coming fast and the tank is a lil low or wanting to tank in dps mode or whatever.  Most of the time I run without and do fine rarely ever dropping below 80% power.