What is mystic utility?

[FelixDomesticus]

Some healer get utility spells like invis and evac. What do we mystics get? That lousy badger (come one, it is all white, pale and does not look too healthy)?<div></div>

[vicario]

<DIV>Mystics are more of a support class.  If you'll notice we get a lot more debuffs than other healing classes and I love the pet.  With the pet we have two single heals, a single and group ward, at higher levels a ward/HoT, and then the pet which is a HoT...and small ward - i think.  We may not have evac and invis but we can wear medium armor!  Templars and Inquisitors don't have invis or evac nor do Defilers.  I personally wouldn't want to be a druid type only due to the lower mitigation and most of the mobs nowadays do aoe crushing so mitigation helps.  So basically I'm saying that even though we don't get a cool utility we get other abilities that offset it.  Besides, all invis are the same - even with the totems so spend the money and invis which solves the issue about invising.  Too bad they don't make an evac totem :smileytongue:</DIV>

[Eepop]

Utility is such a non precise term.  Everyone talks up and down about utility, often with one person using it to mean different things. To me utility is anything that isnt part of your archetype's central role, for preists that would be things besides healing.  Beyond this it can be broken down into in combat and out of combat utility. All priests have the same number of spells, so its not a matter of others having something that we dont have anything. As for specificly what utility mystics have: <u>In combat</u> Haze line of Slows Soul line of DPS reduction spells Single Target STA / STR debuff AE STA / Resist debuff AE Slow line Grey Wind nukes Contagion line of DoTs Cold Fire line of DoTs Bear form Avatar Slothful Spirit Ancient Balm <u>Out of Combat</u> Water Spirit SoW <div></div>

[Eepop]

No priest gets invis and evac.  Each druid gets one of them.  Neither of them can be used in combat.  At the same level they get that we get Mourning Soul, which can be used in combat, and to good effect. <div></div>

[vicario]

<DIV>I love slothful spirit...in PVP :smileyhappy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And btw we may not get invis or evac but we do rock in PVP!  Because of our buffs and disease/poison ward we can take on warlocks with ease - with practice of course :smileyhappy: but thats for another thread...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But yeah I agree that evac for wardens is out of combat only so makes it kind of useless and as for invis I think it's on a REALLY small timer - like 5 min?  So yeah I agree with Eepop with the above posts.</DIV>

[CallMeToyMan]

Mystics have several important slows and debufs, SOW, and some nice buffs.  The slows and debuffs can make a big difference fighting tough mobs in groups, and later in the game when you are raiding you will find that your slows and debuffs are highly valued when going up against raid mobs.  You also have extra poison/disease oriented resist buffs that are valued when going up against raid mobs that have poison/disease oriented AE damage spells.  And at level 58 you get a spell called Ancient Balm which is extremely useful when going up against high level mobs that cast impairments on the tank.  <div></div>

[Pass1o]

<DIV>I was thinking the same this morning and was about to open a thread about it...</DIV> <DIV>I dont  think that  your right saying that we get more in combat spells..because that would've meant we're "overpowered ".</DIV> <DIV>SOE would've not given those healer classes those out of combat abillities and make em weaker in combat..so that means they're getting those out of combat bonuses for "free"...and that does make me frustrated..seeing that  the furys and templars healing and combat skills are not by any means worse than mine and yet they get invis evac and "soothing " spells..</DIV> <DIV>p.s i'm no expert so feel free to correct me if needed and would love to see someone prove i'm wrong</DIV><p>Message Edited by Pass1onZ on <span class=date_text>10-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:52 PM</span>

[t3h_m0nopOl1z]

<P>If we're going to get into semantics...</P> <P> </P> <P>I'd say generally that every ability in the game is "utility" in some context. Even a straight up Wizard nuke has inherent "utility." The trick is how you break it down. To demonstrate what I mean, here is a list of ability types that I think everyone can see in the game very quickly:</P> <P>- Damage</P> <P>- Debuffs</P> <P>- Buffs</P> <P>- State effecting (maybe call it combat utility?), which include snares, roots, stuns, mezzes, stifles, interrupts, charms and the like.</P> <P>However not all abilities fit into those categories, since these are combat abilities. Of course many combat abilties are damage + a debuff and/or a state-effecting component, but there are a large number of abilities that have other effects. How do you quantize (put into numbers) a group invis? Evac? Those are whole abilities in thier own right - the <EM>definition </EM>of an evac is more complex than the definition of a damage ability.</P> <P>I think that's partly why people like these abilities, they feel like a whole new capability, and they are.</P> <P>So if we're talking about that sort of ability, not even the badger counts. Really Mystics have nothing other than SoW.</P>

[Eepop]

<span><blockquote><hr>t3h_m0nopOl1z3r wrote:<div></div>I think that's partly why people like these abilities, they feel like a whole new capability, and they are. <p>So if we're talking about that sort of ability, not even the badger counts. Really Mystics have nothing other than SoW. </p><hr></blockquote>We can go look at a fury spell list and a mystic spell list side by side and see we get the same number of spells (in fact we get 1 more since invis doesnt get an upgrade at 53 like Soul does). Im not saying its the correct way for things to have been done, but its how it is.  Non druids got in combat abilities, druids got out of combat abilities.  Mystics very arguablely made out the best in this situation since we can use ours every fight to decent effect. I've said it numerous times, everyone should have just got 1 in-combat utility and 1 out of combat utility at 39 instead of some getting one and two getting the other.  But even as far as this goes...look at Templar fluff, they couldnt think of anything better for them than Detect Evil! Let alone something that fits thematicly and is useful out of combat utility. I would love to see us get an out of combat utility of some sort added for non druids, and an incombat utility added for druids.  But coming up with ideas for all that is no small task.</span><div></div>

[thedu]

I think it's the fact that I can look like a beaver is the bestest utility ever! Or a bird that does nothing! wheeee <div></div>

[Banditman]

People who wish for utility, are, in general, completely missing the point. When you started playing EQ2, one of the first choices you made was your Archtype.  When you made that choice, it may not have been as obvious as it should be, but you said "the main thing I want to do is heal my companions". Anything that falls outside of raw healing is utility.  Damage, Buffs, de-Buffs, Travel . . . all utility.  They don't heal. You have five lines of Healing:  Minor Heal, Arch Heal, Group Heal, Specialty Heal, Group Specialty Heal. That's it.  Those 5 lines are your job, your character, your choice.  You don't *need* anything else to do your job.  Everything outside that is utility.  It makes your job easier, more fun, more rewarding, etc.  Utility.

[FelixDomesticus]

Well, what I was after was invis. I can train to almost anywhere with wards, but it would be so much tidier and faster if I could just use invis and slip past them unnoticed. Totems have limited amount of shots and tend to run out when you most need them.<div></div>

[Eepop]

While it does cost us money to buy totems to invis, at least we have the option. Wardens and Furies can not buy an item to lower a mob's DPS* or stun as a templar does. * - Yes, they can buy a doll with slow, but I mean specificly "decreases target's DPS by x%". <div></div>

[trin ka]

<DIV>Eepop, my mourning soul and Umbral Trap spell from splitpaw stack? So if I just cast those 2 spells on lets say a solo monster, and cast my ward on the MT, I can lwr the dmg from the monster by over 20%?</DIV><p>Message Edited by trin kahl on <span class=date_text>10-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:07 PM</span>

[Eepop]

I don't know if umbral trap and mourning soul stack, I did post a bunch of logs that could tell you but I don't have the parser to do it, and no one else was motivated to. But my adept 3 mourning soul reduces an enemy's DPS by 22%. <div></div>

[Mattim]

The problem with that view from a player perspective Banditman is that SoE doesn't look at it that way. Utility is core to a classes ability to do their job, it's evidenced easily by looking at the nerf on our haze line pre-LU13.Most of the listed in-combat "utility" spells are core to the aspect fo the class/sub-class because those abilities make it possibly for your special healing abilities to be put to use more effectively. Slow is a good example of this, because of how a ward works the faster a monster hits we actually get diminishing rewards for our healing effect of warding. We can lower the monsters dps, therefore increasing the chances for our ward to expire or last long enough that we can get another up.Not that I don't disagree that class/sub-class abilities may not be considered utility. I don't believe the common use of the term 'utility' applies to them. By that I mean that most people tend to define utility as extras, things that don't make your class turn. For us that would be sow, water spirit, whatever the single breather is and that's pretty much it.Although, I believe you're right that at our very core we are healers, but once you choose a class and then sub-class your choices very how you heal and what supportive functions for healing you get. To classify all things outside of direct healing (warding can be counted as a form of direct healing) belies the fact that w/o support functions healers cannot function or even stack up well against each other. You simply can't call that 'utility'.

[Eepop]

<span><blockquote><hr>Mattimeo wrote:Most of the listed in-combat "utility" spells are core to the aspect fo the class/sub-class because those abilities make it possibly for your special healing abilities to be put to use more effectively. I don't believe the common use of the term 'utility' applies to them. By that I mean that most people tend to define utility as extras, things that don't make your class turn. For us that would be sow, water spirit, whatever the single breather is and that's pretty much it.<hr></blockquote>If that is the definition of utility we want to go with, then all priests have crap for utility.  Druids each get one more by that definition, which isnt anything to be jealous of.</span><div></div>

[t3h_m0nopOl1z]

<P>Yeah, welcome to EQ2.</P> <P> </P> <P>You'd think since we dont get anything decent except heals, we'd get <EM>something</EM>. But apparently not.</P>

[Mattim]

The reason I define utility like that is simple, it's the most generic and fits all situations. The situations being across archetyp, class and sub-class roles.For example, if you consider brawlers in the fighter archetype. They have fewer means of taunting than the other two fighter classes, but their utility damage makes up for it, supporting their role as fighter. If you only classify that as 'utility' and then argue they should fulfill their archetype position with taunts they come up sorely lacking as a fighter and should be seriously 'balanced'.Before LU13 and before the haze debacle, it could be argued that haze was so powerful because our healing and our warding were so weak. And while the tables have been turned to a degree around on that, it still feels in many situations that wards, while better, are still the weaker of the special heals. But our 'utility' makes them more useful, slower and less hard hitting monsters make for better wards.Therefore I would'nt count everything other than a direct heal as utility in the sense of the braoder 'utility' because without those items it's pretty apparent we just may not stack up so grand against others. It's my opinion that is why EQ2 has such a strong spell structure.