Creatures of shadow???

[icetower]

<DIV>Please post if you have found any creatures of shadow in DoF, ie the ones that we do extra damage from our pox dot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Surly_Smurf]

<P>Sorry. Mis-post.</P><p>Message Edited by Surly_Smurf on <span class=date_text>10-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:52 PM</span>

[vicario]

<DIV>I have used my pox on nearly every mob in DoF but see no huge difference in the damage so I think the spell might be bugged... :smileysad:</DIV>

[paisan]

<P>The damage increase is on creatures of shadow only... like Shadowmen and Nightbloods. I have not seen any in DoF either =(</P>

[Banditman]

I've been to most of the DOF zones now . . . not seen any of those type creatures.  Lots of them in EL & Obelisk tho.

[Kyin]

<P>There is 1 Nightblood in PoF.  Pox works great on him,  hes level 65 if i remember right +++ called A creature of Terror.  You can find him in Poets 4th floor</P> <P> </P> <P>Gustave</P>

[Banditman]

So which is it?  Pillars or Poets Palace?

[icetower]

<DIV>So, looks like we have been able to find one creature which is a ^^^ in the whole of DoF which takes extra damage from pox.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not happy about this, since this is our best chance at decent solo content.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also not happy that we seem to be the only class in the game that has no form of the following abilities (apart from our emergency 5 min aggro reducer) :    stun,mez,root,interrupt,stifle.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>p.s.I have tested the snare effect on the arctic flames nuke and it only makes soloing slower (if thats possible).</DIV><p>Message Edited by icetower on <span class=date_text>10-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:15 AM</span>

[Scrav]

I don't see the problem.  We can solo fine, even very well under many situations.  The nightblood/shadowman thing is more for flavor than anything else. <div></div>

[Banditman]

I have no problems solo'ing whatsoever. Is it fast?  No, it isn't.  However, in terms of risk, it's very low risk. I can easily solo a yellow encounter, multi or single mob.  I can, by completely draining my power and most of my life, kill a 7 level lower ^^ Heroic.  I actually get more experience for my time by killing 2 or 3 solo con encounters in the same amount of time, but I can in fact kill a very low green Heroic (^^ only, ^^^ is a mess). Lack of Shadowmen isn't a problem.

[Eepop]

I would say the issue isnt the most important, but its still an issue. The ratio of say undead to shadow creatures throughout the game is staggering.  We get maybe 3-5 zones with shadowed men.  Almost every zone in the game has some undead. Its something I can live with, and is a minor annoyance, but it is a definite advantage that clerics have over shamans (and druids for that matter). <div></div>

[Banditman]

And I can live with that advantage.  Clerics standard fare damage spells do less damage to your run of the mill mob than ours do.  If they have a greater number of mobs upon which their special abilities work, fine.

[icetower]

<DIV>I'm glad you can live with being the soloer with the least options in the game, does someone really have to have this mantle?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can solo blue ^^ mobs with little risk, so what,  the slowness gets boring real quick.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I couldn't give a crap about how I compare with a templar in dps, when I solo, its not to race against another class, it's to try and get a little xp if I have a short playtime.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It has become, however, a test of how many times I can get interrupted before watching the xp bar move 1 pixel and I decide its far more hassle than fun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>It extrapolates to duelling now too, where every other class you fight has some extra means of keeping others at bay, but we have a scarcity of the same tricks up our sleeve.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV> <DIV>It also seems par for the course that they forgot to put shadow creatures in the new expansion and everyone says "oh well, who cares if we have no choices for decent soloing, at least they didn't break our healing this time."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I call it being nerfed into submission. You are happy with being fed crap sandwiches as a side dish, because a few months ago you didn't even have a meal.</DIV><p>Message Edited by icetower on <span class=date_text>10-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:21 AM</span>

[Banditman]

Not at all.  We sit pretty good in terms of healing after the revamp.  Templars still heal more on an ongoing basis, but we can do more in one shot than they can, making us good for blunting those huge attacks.  This battle might be worth fighting, as I think there is still too much advantage to Templars.  However . . . If you want to do damage, GO ROLL A DPS CLASS! We don't do damage.  The sooner you realize that the happier you will be.  Look, I can kill off a yellow solo con mob in about 45 seconds.  That's pretty good.  No, I can't do it in 15 seconds like a Scout or Mage.  I also won't be KILLED in 15 seconds like a Scout or Mage. The marginal DPS increase obtained fighting against a Shadowman *might* amount to killing a mob 5 seconds faster, at best.  Complete non-issue. In fact . . . (brb)

[paisan]

<P>Try doing some of the repeatable quests if you are out for solo xp. You will find that the quest xp is much better than the killing xp any day. I do not think we should have a extreme amount of dps just because we solo for xp slow... play a dps class if you want dps. We can solo MUCH bigger mobs than most of the dps classes can... that is our tradeoff.</P> <P> </P> <DIV>Dueling was never an origional intention of the game and therefore has 0 bearing on anything. It is paper-rock-scissors in my book. If you want balanced PvP try champions out. ALTHOUGH if you do not start a duel with casting your torpor and groupward during those 5 seconds before the fight begins you are asking to lose. I think we are one of the better classes for PvP that does not depend solely on the mother of all PvP skills... the stifle/stun.</DIV>

[Banditman]

We do actually have one 10 second mez. But PvP?  Bah - who cares.  It's pretty obvious they'll have to create a PvP server with different rules if they have any intention of balancing it.

[icetower]

<P>So furies, and templars (vs undead) are dps classes are they?</P> <P>Mage killed vs yellow solo mob? /laugh at their newbness if they do.</P> <P>Sick of how every time someone mentions dps and mystic in the same sentence, some dipstick always has to come along and say "roll a dps class".</P> <P>I didn't say I couldn't solo or duel, I just said they are boring, so please stop assuming I need your advice. I didn't put soloing or dueling into the game, SoE did. I'm just asking why they should be so comparatively unrewarding when I do them as a mystic.</P> <P>Last time I looked, mystics didn't have a stranglehold on the other aspects of the game , such as grouping or raiding.</P>

[Mystiq]

<div></div>Soloing has never been my thing, and certainly not on my Mystic, since it takes so long it might as well be boring the mobs to death. That said, I do kinda wish Mystics had more firepower in general, despite how much better we are in all other areas atm. As mentioned by someone above, we still have very little in the way of utility-type spells at our disposal, or anything in particular that would be considered overpowered all on its own. All priests have a PBAoE deaggro spell with some form of stun/root/fear/mez etc. so that should absolutely not be a factor in determining a certain priest's power or strength in any category. Since we are not the "best" in all categories other than damage from my perspective, a little extra boost couldn't hurt. The one creature of shadow in DoF (found thus far) is called "A creature of terror", found in Poet's Palace on the 4th floor. It isn't a named, nor is it particularly hard to kill for a group of 58+ players, although it does drop one maybe two decent treasured items. Wanna know the "flavor" Wardens get on one of their nukes? Double damage vs. elemental enemies. Do you know how many elemental mobs there are in DoF, let alone the rest of Norrath? LOTS more than shadowfolk! Some you might not expect to be classified as elemental are, like the x2 golems in Silent City.  It's literally like having an extra master smite at your disposal every few seconds. I personally didn't take elemental master's smite (took lizardman instead to be different), and I certainly wouldn't take it on a Warden either with built in double damage. <div></div>

[Banditman]

I can't believe you think we have no utility! I can't even cast all my debuffs now that I have Slothful Spirit!  I have too many!  I have to choose what I want to cast:  Scream of the Ancients, Chimerik, Haze of the Month / AE Slow, Grieving Soul, Slothful Spirit . . . so many options . . . Perhaps it's your definition of utility that we should be discussing.  To me, utility is something that you do outside of your primary function.  My primary function is to heal. Outside of that, I get *five* debuffs and four damage spells to throw at every encounter.  I simply can't use all the tools at my disposal.  I just don't have time!

[Mystiq]

My definition of utility, not that that is really the topic of discussion here, includes spells and skills mostly in the control category. Many classes get debuffs including slows, power drains, dps debuffs and stat debuffs, and ours are not necessarily the best either. That isn't to say that ours are not without use, quite the contrary, but it isn't a very good argument against boosting other aspects of the Mystic class that are lackluster, such as our DPS. <div></div>

[Eepop]

As far as utility goes I think we are doing pretty good actually. Its true that we don't have any real control type abilities, but ask a Templar how much they like thier mezzes.  I know the one in my group hates the darn thing. Thier stun, Prostrate, is really quite equivilent to Mourning Soul in usefulness.  Although they have no spell analogous to Cry of the Ancients to debuff the mob's resists, so thiers bounces more than ours. Maybe its just me, but I think our utility is mechanics wise very well balanced with the other classes, and probably the most "fun". As for DPS, all priests need to stop thinking its a segregated problem.  With the possible exclusion of druids, we all have crappy DPS. It'd have a lot better chance of getting boosted if we stopped using it as a subclass problem, and banded together to treat it as what it is, an archetype problem. <div></div>

[paisan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> icetower wrote:<BR> <P>So furies, and templars (vs undead) are dps classes are they?</P> <P><FONT color=#66cc00>Mage killed vs yellow solo mob? /laugh at their newbness if they do.</FONT></P> <P>Sick of how every time someone mentions dps and mystic in the same sentence, some dipstick always has to come along and say "roll a dps class".</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>I didn't say I couldn't solo or duel, I just said they are boring, so please stop assuming I need your advice.</FONT> I didn't put soloing or dueling into the game, SoE did. I'm just asking why they should be so comparatively unrewarding when I do them as a mystic.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>Last time I looked, mystics didn't have a stranglehold on the other aspects of the game , such as grouping or raiding.</FONT></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>If you weren't looking for advice then why post?</FONT></P> <P>Why does everything implimented have to be 100% beneficial for everyone? These mentalities ruin games by dulling all the edges until everything blurs together.<BR></P> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>Actually have you seen a raid work without a Shaman in the MT group? I don't know about you but my buffs put me in the MT group evcery raid.</FONT></P> <DIV><FONT color=#669900>Have you ever seen a mage get attacked from behind? maybe get an add or be in a fight that wasn't calculated? Maybe even round a corner in Maj Dul into some opposing faction guards? They get arsed. Easy.</FONT></DIV>

[icetower]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> paisan wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>If you weren't looking for advice then why post?</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>This question makes no sense at all. Are you really saying that every post must be by definition a request for advice?</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>Actually have you seen a raid work without a Shaman in the MT group? I don't know about you but my buffs put me in the MT group evcery raid.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>There is no sane reason for a Mystic to be in the MT group in every raid. Buff stacking often means that other combinations are better depending on the mob. Are you deluded enough to think that a raid will somehow fail because there is no mystic in the MT group?</FONT></P> <P>Why does everything implimented have to be 100% beneficial for everyone? These mentalities ruin games by dulling all the edges until everything blurs together.</P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>What does this mean? It somehow adds dimension to the game when some classes are fun in raids,groups,soloing and duelling while some are only fun in raids and groups?</FONT></P> <DIV><FONT color=#669900>Have you ever seen a mage get attacked from behind? </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#669900>maybe get an add or be in a fight that wasn't calculated? Maybe even round a corner in Maj Dul into some opposing faction guards? They get arsed. Easy.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#669900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Now bearing in mind the original comment said mage soloing a yellow..</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Are you saying mystics should have low dps because mages don't look behind them when soloing?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Or mages fail to calculate their targets ability?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Or is it because they don't look round corners when running thru Maj Dul?</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>         Outside of that, I get *five* debuffs and four damage spells to throw at every encounter.  I simply can't use all the                     tools at  my disposal.  I just don't have time!</P> <P>         <FONT color=#66ff00>Do these often redundant debuffs guarantee you a raid or group spot over a another priest whos solo or duelling               ability is situationally much richer? </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>          </FONT><FONT color=#66ff00>         </FONT><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT></P> <P>Message Edited by icetower on <SPAN class=date_text>10-14-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>02:58 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by icetower on <span class=date_text>10-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:58 AM</span>

[Banditman]

None of my debuffs are redundant, what class are you playing? Chimerik:  Decreases STA and STR of target. Scream of the Ancients:  Decreases multiple mitigations as well as STA (STA debuff STACKS with Chimerik) Haze:  Decreases SPC and auto attack speed. Grieving Soul:  Decreases autoattack DPS (strait decrease in damage) Slothful Spirit:  Reactive proc debuff that damages an opponent when they use power.

[icetower]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Banditman wrote:<BR>None of my debuffs are redundant, what class are you playing?<BR><BR><BR>Chimerik:  Decreases STA and STR of target.<BR>Scream of the Ancients:  Decreases multiple mitigations as well as STA (STA debuff STACKS with Chimerik)<BR>Haze:  Decreases SPC and auto attack speed.<BR>Grieving Soul:  Decreases autoattack DPS (strait decrease in damage)<BR>Slothful Spirit:  Reactive proc debuff that damages an opponent when they use power.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Group debuffs and single debuffs , as well as dubious stackability with other classes debuffs.</DIV> <DIV>Why do we need 2 ways to debuff stamina and 2 ways to debuff dps. We got fried shrimp, barbecued shrimp...... </DIV> <DIV>Not picking on slothful spirit here, good spell and something different. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now are you going to answer the question or just play semantics?</DIV> <P>Message Edited by icetower on <SPAN class=date_text>10-14-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:26 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by icetower on <span class=date_text>10-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:08 AM</span>

[Banditman]

Now you are going beyond a Mystic issue into a mechanics issue.  If you want to talk about mechanics there are other forums more appropriate for that discussion. If you don't like your Mystic now, chances are you never will.  We have some problems, sure, but frankly they are molehills compared to what we were staring at 2 months ago.

[paisan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> icetower wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> paisan wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>If you weren't looking for advice then why post?</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>This question makes no sense at all. Are you really saying that every post must be by definition a request for advice?</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>Actually have you seen a raid work without a Shaman in the MT group? I don't know about you but my buffs put me in the MT group evcery raid.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>There is no sane reason for a Mystic to be in the MT group in every raid. Buff stacking often means that other combinations are better depending on the mob. Are you deluded enough to think that a raid will somehow fail because there is no mystic in the MT group?</FONT></P> <P>Why does everything implimented have to be 100% beneficial for everyone? These mentalities ruin games by dulling all the edges until everything blurs together.</P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>What does this mean? It somehow adds dimension to the game when some classes are fun in raids,groups,soloing and duelling while some are only fun in raids and groups?</FONT></P> <DIV><FONT color=#669900>Have you ever seen a mage get attacked from behind? </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#669900>maybe get an add or be in a fight that wasn't calculated? Maybe even round a corner in Maj Dul into some opposing faction guards? They get arsed. Easy.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#669900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Now bearing in mind the original comment said mage soloing a yellow..</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Are you saying mystics should have low dps because mages don't look behind them when soloing?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Or mages fail to calculate their targets ability?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Or is it because they don't look round corners when running thru Maj Dul?</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>         Outside of that, I get *five* debuffs and four damage spells to throw at every encounter.  I simply can't use all the                     tools at  my disposal.  I just don't have time!</P> <P>         <FONT color=#66ff00>Do these often redundant debuffs guarantee you a raid or group spot over a another priest whos solo or duelling               ability is situationally much richer? </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>          </FONT><FONT color=#66ff00>         </FONT><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT></P> <P>Message Edited by icetower on <SPAN class=date_text>10-14-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>02:58 AM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by icetower on <SPAN class=date_text>10-14-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:58 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>You gotta be kidding me... when you post you are looking for discussion about the topic you post on... either that or you want to gripe. If you want to have a non-constructive gripe then.. well...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Are you honestly denying the fact that mystic have really good tank buffs? No we are not needed in a MT group for the raid to survive if you want to split hairs but if we are does it not run much smoother?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Certain characters are better at certain content period. Some will not be good at a thrown in PvP.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Character volatility is not 100% in a preset calculated fight there are actually other situations in the game.  If your rebuttal is what you comprend from my earlier statement then you are just fishing for an argument. Good day.</DIV>

[icetower]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Banditman wrote:<BR>Now you are going beyond a Mystic issue into a mechanics issue.  If you want to talk about mechanics there are other forums more appropriate for that discussion.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>If it involves a mystic, I will discuss it here, but thanks anyway for dodging the question again.<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Banditman wrote:<BR><BR>If you don't like your Mystic now, chances are you never will.  We have some problems, sure, but frankly they are molehills compared to what we were staring at 2 months ago.<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Like I said before, you have been gimped into submission.  They fixed a broken spell after inexcusably ignoring it for 9 months. Great, thanks, I'm over it.</P> <P>What else did we get?</P> <P>Debuffs:</P> <P>You wave a bunch of different flavoured utility spells around but they are all the same kind of vanilla.</P> <P>Each debuff you cast has diminishing returns as the fight progresses.</P> <P>Unless you cast the first stamina debuff before the puller (or anyone else) has damaged the mob, It is already less effective.</P> <P>That second stamina debuff? Unless the mobs health bar goes totally back to full, you've just wasted half a spell.</P> <P>Each seperately casted dps debuff has less time to be effective as the mob gets closer to death, making it more and more likely that dps or a heal is better use of mana.</P> <P>Specialty spells:</P> <P>Slothful spirit- nice spell. Get rid of chimerik and incorporate it with haze and give us more like this!</P> <P>Snare on dd: useless- needs to be 80% not 40%.</P> <P>Pox specialty mobs- oops forgot to put them in the expansion.</P> <P>C/C (stun,mez,interrupt,stifle,root) - none bar the 5 min priest deaggro. I believe we are the only class in the entire game in this category. This should be balanced with direct dps or passive (damage shield).</P> <P>Despite the illogical reasoning of people like Paisan, "just because" is no reason at all for only selected classes to have fun and flavour in each aspect of the game, whether it be raiding, grouping,soloing or duelling.</P> <P><BR> </P> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>

[paisan]

<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Despite the illogical reasoning of people like Paisan, "just because" is no reason at all for only selected classes to have fun and flavour in each aspect of the game, whether it be raiding, grouping,soloing or duelling.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P>You answered you own question without knowing it.. if everyone is perfectly good at ll levels you will have the same sort of vanilla character you relate buffs to. I myself prefer the characters to be different and "flavored" if you will. </P> <P>Also if you do feel the need to attack me on a personal level go right ahead... i will take one for the Mystic team if it will save everyone from your complaining.</P>

[icetower]

<div></div><span><blockquote>paisan wrote:<div> <hr> </div> <p>You answered you own question without knowing it.. if everyone is perfectly good at ll levels you will have the same sort of vanilla character you relate buffs to. I myself prefer the characters to be different and "flavored" if you will. </p> <hr></blockquote></span>Your'e  right, the game is far more interesting the way it is now. You've made me realise my purpose, which is to make the classes which are good at all aspects of the game feel superior. Again, by all aspects of the game, I mean  Raiding,Grouping,Soloing and Duelling. <span><blockquote><hr>paisan wrote: <p>Also if you do feel the need to attack me on a personal level go right ahead... i will take one for the Mystic team if it will save everyone from your complaining.</p><hr></blockquote>I apologise, it's your arguments that are illogical, I'm sure you are a fine fellow.</span> <div></div><p>Message Edited by icetower on <span class=date_text>10-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:18 AM</span>

[paisan]

Apparently there is no room for constructive conversation in your world because your perception of the game is of course always right.

[icetower]

<span><blockquote><hr>paisan wrote:Apparently there is no room for constructive conversation in your world because your perception of the game is of course always right. <div></div><hr></blockquote>I'm offended that you would call me closed minded. Shame on you for making a personal attack <span>:smileywink:</span></span><div></div>