Mystic's hate gained in an encounter does not seem to be erased when that encounter dies.

[pera]

<div></div>Hi all, A guildy of mine i've been grouping a lot with has been seeing a lot of really weird agro issuses lately.  Basicly after we've been fighing for a while, an hour or so, if the tank pulls a group of mobs(and yes the tank is tanting like a mofo, correctly) some of the mobs will run stright to our mystic before even touching the tank.  Well we noticed this problem getting worse and worse as we were pulling. So we had the mystic drop all of his buffs and the onlything he uses was his ward on the tank. Still the mobs would run to him as soon as the group of mobs were engaged with out hitting the tank first. Well it started to seem that the hate the mystic gained for each encounter was not being removed when that encounter died, (and no we were not chain pulling).  So we had the mystic camp to desktop and come back,  When he did and all buffs were reaplied we started pulling again.  everythign was perfect for the frist half hour or so then the same thing started to happen again.  The tank would pull and all but the main mob the tank pulled would run straight to the mystic even though the tank was using the AE taunt. since we were in the Living Tome we just had the mystic jump on the Oily wall between each fight and we didnt have a problem after that at all with agro. (ei the oily wall clears your hate) And just to note with my seranade song playing while fighting (reduces all hate gain for non-fighters by 37%) the time we could pull with out the mystic getting agro right off the bat was significaly longer (ie hes gaining less hate per fight) but after about an hour of fighting the same thing started happening again untill the mystic jumped on the oily wall and then everything was ok. I'm not sure what buffs the mystic was running, but i do know there is a major problem with this.  The only thing i could think of while we were adventuring was that the mystics hate gain was not being cleared between fights and was just adding onto its self each fight untill it became greater than the hate gained by the tanks initual pulls. Has any other mystics experianced this problem.   The only places i can notably remeber seeing this was in CT (frog raid instance) and the Living Tome. <div></div><p>Message Edited by perano on <span class=date_text>10-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:49 AM</span>

[Eepop]

That is very odd indeed. I havent had it myself yet though, and I grouped for about 6 hours yesterday in two different zones (Clefts of Rujark and Everfrost). <div></div>

[Banditman]

While I can appreciate what you are trying to show, I don't think you've done it yet. Hate list is on the encounter side, not on the party side.  The mob has a list of players it hates, and a numeric amount of "hate" that each player on that list has.  If your number is highest, you are in the crosshairs.  As a fight progresses, the numeric value for hate for each character increases as they take different actions. Let me just show you with a quick example why hate cannot be carrying over from encounter to encounter. So you pull your encounter, every player has zero hate.  By the end of the fight, the tank may have 2000 hate points accrued, Mystic has say 1800 hate.  Let's say the fight takes 30 seconds. Now, if the Mystic was, for some reason and through some means unknown, carrying his hate over to the next fight, he would start the fight with 1800 hate.  Now, we see that the tank generates 2000 hate in 30 seconds.  So, by those proportions, it would take the tank almost 30 seconds to generate enough hate to pull the second mob off the Mystic . . . and that assumes that the Mystic take NO ACTION while the mob beats on him. It is just flat out impossible for hate to be carrying over.  If it were, Mystics would be tanking from the second pull on.

[pera]

Very true and I totaly agree with you that this 'should not' be happening by just shear aspects of seeing the rest of the game, but something is causing agro to bug out in one way or nother is what seems to be very special, obsured cases. (ie, ive seen cases where a class will do nothing at all at the start of a fight and a mob will just start wailing on them)  It could just be a very very small/hard to see bug in the way hate is calculated, and since i dont know the actualy logic soe uses to track hate thats about all i can point out about this. I'm going to actualy have to test this with some detail later tonight or tomorrow and see what i can find.  :-p <div></div>

[thedu]

Maybe it's not taking over to the next group but there are weird things that still happen, i.e. in Everfrost. Went over to where arctic monitors, and Minos are. Tank is 47 and I'm 43. Tank passes by aggro wolf without doing any kind of taunt, and dog immediately run's over to me.  I was trailing somewhat further back so this was definitely noticeable. You would think that proximity/range aggro would transfer some hate to the tank but it did not; and while I don't think hate is carrying over from other encounters there is something setting up the mystic to be at the top of the hate list at times. <div></div>

[pera]

<div></div>Well also i just thought of this it is possible heallers have a special 'increase to hate modifire' if you will.  It kind of make since or it would be too easy to keep hate off of a healer that heals maybe 800-1k every 9 seconds when a tank can get close to 1.5-2k of hate in that same about of time.  So in a few small cases it may be possible that the initual pull the tank makes ?some of it is being transfered to the priest?  Though i do know Arrow pulling has a very good chance to cause the mob to go straight for the priest, at least compaired to a body/taunt pull which seems pretty reliable. [/edit] Oh by the way the only reason i'm pointing this out is because as a troubador I'm pretty much in charge of negative hate and CC when there is not a chanter in group(which i'm starting to see hardly any chanters atm). So since its my job to keep everyones hate down except for fighters and CC I tend to notice these things more i guess than a non-priest or non-CC class. <div></div><p>Message Edited by perano on <span class=date_text>10-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:32 PM</span>

[Mystiq]

<div></div>Yeah this would be very weird indeed if somehow mystics were bugged in a way that they gained inherant hate as they kept playing. An enviable trait indeed by tanks accross the land! Seriously though, I doubt this is the case. Here are some situations I've seen in regards to wonton hate assignment. This varies on group makeup and playstyle: -I am running Runic Talisman. Someone other than the tank is pulling. If the puller gets whacked a few times and the regenerating ward comes back in turn, mobs will often make a beeline for the mystic untill the tank can apply taunts on all mobs in the encounter that negate the hate of the wards. This is not uncommon and not very serious IMO. -Proximity to a mob does not seem to have anything to do with hate generation or maintenance. It seems to matter more in other games I've played, but not this one. You could be as far away as you like while within an encounter's leash limit, but if a mob wants to hit you they will run to you and do it. Casters and healers can stand on top of the tank and not get hit any more or less due to aggro (barring Assault and Barrage) than if they stood at a more comfortable distance while fighting. I've seen mobs go out of their way to smack me and other non fighters in a group, it's just a reality I've grown used to. -Multipe mob encounters are harder to control hate wise then single mobs are. AE taunts don't seem to work the same way since the combat changes. Either their range was reduced or bugged in regards to hitting all mobs within an encounter when the target is close but some or all other mobs in the encounter are farther away (out of the target range of the taunt). This makes part of the encounter a wild card so to speak....untaunted and on the move to whomever else might be generating hate through buffs, wards, songs, heal ticks or what have you. I'm not sure what tanks have to say about this, but it is a common occurence that I have seen, and not difficult to adjust to. -On named encounters that often take longer to fight, we sometimes mez them on inc or before pulling so that proper debuffs (and not just mine) and taunts can be applied before engaging. In this time I might throw a hex doll, scream of the ancients, chimerik, grieving soul and howling haze on the mob(s) (not to mention recasts for resists or short duration debuffs that run out) while the tank applies taunts. I've seen this generate me a considerable amount of hate, and although we do not engage untill the tank is on the mob's target, the mob will often come to me within seconds of engaging (as if to say PSYCHE!) and start beating on me untill I use my deaggro or the tank generates some more hate. Not just me though, other group members that have debuffed or have crazy dps (like Swashbucklers.....and I mean like woah) can steal aggro in just a few seconds no matter how good the tank is. It sucks to be sure, but again I can't really say it is unreasonable. Any of these examples may or may not explain some of what you are seeing with your mystic's aggro, but these situations verifyable and repeatable (at least by me) and are much more likely than a player building inherant and increasing hate as play time goes on. Regards, <div></div>

[pera]

I do know the Guards taunt range was reduced to 15m which is tiny i think so it could be possible some mobs while running as the tank pulls are just outside of that range, and are not hit by the taunt.  Therefor when the first mob hits the tank all of his buddies that were not hit by the initual AE tant are going to run over to the healer (assuming they have HoT,Reac,Ward on tank ) because the hate generated by the hot/reac/ward firing off.  This would explain why the agro on the mystic was so spuratic, and the logging/wall thing was just by chance a better agro on the next pull Thanks a lot for the info and idea i defiently know what i think we need to change/modify in the way we are having our tank, and handling agro. just to note taunt range really, really needs to be increased! <div></div>