2 mystic group = BAD! Spell stacking issue

[Kyin]

<DIV>Ok, I thought after the patch that all spells would stack, but it seems only Dot's and Debuffs do.  (I dont even know if Debuffs do as I believe it is just taking the effect of 1)  I grouped with one of the other mystics in my guild last night and after testing alot of the stuff we found our spells do not stack at all.  Wards do not stack, which is great and lead to our death when the other mystic casted oberon after I.  Things got so bad because of this the MT asked on of us to leave so he could get another healer.  I decided to go because I was 51 and the other mystic was 50.  Now things went fine on the most part, I kept the group alive and warded while the other mystic debuffed and spot healed.  I really do not see why Wards do not stack (I am now wondering if druids regens stack)  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please let me know your thoughts here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gustave</DIV>

[Banditman]

I can understand why. 3 Templars in a group?  Imagine the insanity. I avoid grouping with other Mystics because it just doesn't work very well.  Debuff and DoT stacking was mainly done for the raiding community, not the exp group.

[Mattim]

Part of the changes mentioned for beta was reactive/regen stacking, and I remember posts here about how wards didn't stack properly as each ward would be hit for the same damage when someone got hit. I never saw anything more so assumed this didn't change.Do reactives and regens no longer stack?

[Banditman]

Everything stacks WONDERFULLY with two Priests in the group.  Some of the buffs still don't, but again, I can understand why. Heals however are BEAUTIFUL with two Priests in the group.  Ever notice how even when a Ward absorbs an entire blow you still get a message that you were hit - a RED message - 0 HP of damage? That is the most wonderful thing ever.  I swear. It means that there is a trigger!  Reactives can fire even when a Ward is up!  And they do! So, the Templar and I wait until the tank is yellow'ish.  I cast a Ward and throws his Reactive on underneath it.  Now, the Ward absorbs the damage and the Reactive still triggers, building the tank back up to full. It's better than we could have asked for when stacking Priests.

[windspeaks]

Wards should cancel the existing ward to allow teamwork tho. that would be sweet

[Banditman]

How do you know that they don't ?

[Kyin]

<P>Wards from 2 mystics dont stack, and they do cancel each other out.  So if Mystic 1 casta  ward then mystic 2, mystic 1 will think his ward droped because it will disapear from the maintained window.  Mystic 1 will most likly recast and built agro from that and wait mana from it.  Its not a perty site.</P> <P>What would be nice is a target maintaned window so you can watch if another member cast a ward on him so you can plan accordingly.  In other words a window that will show you what spells are affecting the tank and from whom.  </P>

[Banditman]

Which is exactly what the poster I was responding to wanted. Two Mystics should never be in the same group, it's really that simple.  It's not productive.

[BALTO]

actually i thought it'd be bad, but its better now than before, not GREAT but do-able... 1st mystic job could be the group ward spam an the non-MT healer/warder an spot heals MT, 2nd mystic takes up single ward spam an main tank heals, as for who debuffs? formual lately for me since caster nerf on the resistance, i usually suggest higher lvl mystic slip in the debuffs due to less chance of resis. that combo setup works decent. as for your con buffs, they at least dont have it so the most powerful over writes the lower, so if one mystic drops, 2nd con buffs are still up, or ya can just clear con, and single target hp/pw buff everyone who ya think needs it. so ya its a TAD easier to dual mystics in a single group than previously...but honestly woulda been happy with most spells stayn the same an just fix'n mitigation/heal on expire of the wards.. <div></div>

[Eepop]

<P>It may be difficult to check...but has anyone seen if runic talisman stacks with 2 mystics in a group.  I realize the mitigation part won't but perhaps the ward from both might be used.  I dont really know how to test it, but would be an interesting thing to know.</P>

[Banditman]

Runic doesn't even stack with a ST Ward. If you watch carefully, you will see that when you get hit with Runic and ST Ward, both of them take damage simultaneously.  You get two absorbed messages for the same amount, provided that the blow is small enough that it doesn't exceed the ability of the Runic Ward to absorb. For me, it's 76 HP.  So, if a mob hits me for 75 HP, I see two messages that say "Your ward absorbed 75 HP of damage".

[Eepop]

<DIV>Yes, I understand that. I was more wondering if one could "fill in the gaps" while the other's ward was down and not yet regened.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For instance, we have to mystics, A and B.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tank gets hit and eats the 76 points from A's runic talisman.</DIV> <DIV>Tank gets hit again before A's runic talisman regenerates, does the damage go through unimpeded or does B's runic Talisman block 76 damage? </DIV>

[Finderbex]

How about a mystic and defiler in the same group together. how do the wards interact?

[resus]

Mystic and Defiler Ward not stack, 1 play ward and debuff and other heal and debuff<div></div>

[Mystiq]

There are still many priest stacking issues happening since the CC, even with priests from different classes, like druid and cleric. A Templar cannot use their direct heals on a target if a Warden has any HoT's on that target. I also witness my direct heals being blocked in beta by (i wish i found out what) some other priest's heals or specialty healing, though I haven't witnessed this issue in the live game yet. Lots of testing still needs to be done in raid situations and any other time multiple priests will be working together. <div></div>

[Grimjakk]

<P>In most experience groups, there's not really any negatives to having two shaman... just don't double ward.  With all defiler debuffs being single target (and short duration), they can keep pretty busy just cycling through debuffs and dots, leaving the other shaman to handle heals. </P> <P>But in a raid group, I'm sure that second healer slot would be better filled with a druid or cleric.</P>

[Banditman]

Over the weekend I made a point to group with other Ward casters. When grouped with another Mystic, I dropped all my buffs and held up Prophecy x 5 while the other Mystic held all the buffs plus Prophecy on herself.  It also gave us two Avatar's.  I Warded, she Healed / Torpored.  We were very [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] effective. I grouped with a Defiler as well, with a similar arrangement, except in this case I Healed / Torpored and he Warded.  Also very effective. It's not as easy as it is with other Priests, and you have to discuss it, but you CAN group with other Ward casters and be effective.

[Eepop]

Yes Banditman, there are things we can do with multiple shamans in a group. But there is still as Eloora said, a very large problem with heals not stacking between multiple priests.  The buffs on some direct heals are blocking others.  Now this doesnt really matter unless the group is in trouble and someone is going down fast... Try explaining to someone that they died because you weren't allowed to heal them. <div></div>

[Banditman]

<div></div>I've never been blocked from direct Healing . . . I've grouped with everything now except an Inquisitor. Yes, Ward stacking needs to be looked at, but, seriously, do you expect that they are going to allow complete Ward stacking?  H&^@ no they aren't.  One tank, 5 Mystics = completely invulnerable tank.  This is a very real and scary possibility. I would love to see a system where you could place a single Ward on the target.  Any subsequent Wards cast would be checked against the REMAINING value on that Ward.  If the "new" Ward had more HP in it than the old Ward, it removed the old and took effect.  If the "new" Ward had fewer HP, the caster of that Ward gets the message "Would not take effect". It's not so simple as just allowing all Wards to stack.  I do understand that. Ward casters are an extremely dangerous class right now, because we could easily become overpowered.  I *definitely* do NOT want to be overpowered.  The nerf bat hurts and usually cuts too deep. <p>Message Edited by Banditman on <span class=date_text>10-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:45 PM</span>

[Eepop]

Oh I don't have a problem with wards not stacking. But my group (mystic and Templar) are seriously getting some "would not take effect" s on direct heals.  I also grouped with a higher level mystic and all my direct heals were bouncing ( hp buff element i think). Direct heals should always stack from all subclasses.  Specialty heals I can understand not stacking...but direct heals should definitely stack.  Some mage types pulled aggro and I couldnt heal them (with direct heals) because the other mystic had.  That mage got squished in short order. Perhaps there has to be some level difference for it to happen but it IS HAPPENING. <div></div>

[Mor]

Certainly there are issues with the HoT portions of warden DH.   See: <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=14&message.id=5876" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=14&message.id=5876</a> <div></div>

[Banditman]

Someone is gonna have to figure out a way to consistently reproduce this issue. I've managed to get to L54 and never see it, even killed some x2 raid mobs in the process.

[Mystiq]

Thanks for the link Morie. It matters more now than ever that we really understand the workings of the other classes, and how they work, or don't work, with our own class. As I mentioned I haven't witnessed any stacking issues since beta, but I know other guildies of mine have. I group with a Warden as the second healer (of our former exp group now questing/farming/faction) almost exclusively, and I have yet to have been personally blocked in using any of my spells while he's using his. Our secondary effects on our direct heals might actually be overwriting that of a Warden's completely. We did a few quick tests casting our heals on ourselves and each other, and when he cast his on me, then me on myself, my buff icon overwrote his. Meanwhile it appears that all of the hp buffs in all 3 of our direct heals (that includes group) stack with each other o.O. <div></div>

[Eepop]

My group's templar started noticing the bounce after I hit level 43 and she was still 42.  We get rejuvinating chant at that level, and she would still be using her previous version, that may be some of the source of the problem. This would also explain why folks that are 50ish wouldnt notice,  you'd have to be in a group with 2 folks on opposite ends of a heal upgrade, which if patterns continue wouldnt happen until the level 56-57 border. <div></div>