Aggro from buffs

[crunchybob]

<DIV>I posted this elsewhere, but here's my personal experience with our buff situation.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <P>I was in Zek with my 35 mystic and 33 berserker. My berserker had chosen the master 2 AE taunt.  With any of the buffs with the ward component up I could NOT taunt mobs off my mystic chain taunting and throwing every hate inducing strike I had at them. The whole time my mystic did nothing, not even ward himself to stop the damage he was taking.</P> <P>No, theres no problem here. I'd hate to see that ward component go away, it seems useful, but if it needs to go rather than actually fixing the insane amounts of aggro priests are getting now, then so be it. I'd rather be alive without the ward than getting aggro on every single pull without doing anything.</P></DIV>

[Finora]

<P>I have had zero trouble with agro. I always have the runic line up. I only pulled agro one time tonight and that is because I mistargeted and double debuffed the wrong mob on a pull (stupid mistake and no one's fault but my own).</P> <P>Are you absolutely certain it is your buff and not something else you are doing?</P> <P> </P>

[crunchybob]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Calendri wrote: <P>Are you absolutely certain it is your buff and not something else you are doing?<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I was doing what my priest always does, stands behind the tank a few feet, waiting for the tank to establish some hate before casting anything. The mobs were running past the tank directly to the priest.  This did not heppen with runic off, but my tank took a lot more damage without that extra ~300 mitigation.</P> <P>To be fair, when I did group with a tank 5 levels above me, the mobs still would run up and smack me first, but would then turn attention to the tank who would hold aggro pretty well, unless I tried warding too soon.</P> <P><BR> </P>

[DejaaVous]

It's a known bug Calendri, every mystic using the line is having troubles with it, and some aren't using the buff at all.  I am sure he is doing his job just fine, it isn't his fault.

[monkeydave]

<P>I'm having major issues with "Runic Talisman" and so are other Mystics on AB server.</P> <P>The buff seems to constantly regenerate and cause major aggro even if you are not doing anything.</P> <P>As soon as someone in your grp does anything as little as get to close and aggro a mob, the mob instantly runs past everyone else and makes a bee line to the mystic.</P> <P>It's a major hassle and makes the spell pretty much worthless in a grp and it's a grp buff spell.</P> <P>This needs to be fixed.  It almost always causes grp wipes if you manage to aggro 2-3 tough mobs. </P>

[Banditman]

Once tanks learn how to deal with it, the problem drops to almost nothing.  Accordant Spirits is your friend. I wouldn't mind if aggro were taken away from this little Ward, but I'd be really upset if the Ward itself were removed instead.  I know it can be worked around and I'd hate to say anything about it for fear that the nerf bat might swing much harder than we ask.

[Johaan]

<DIV>Our tank was leading off with a taunt and then hitting.  It seemed to work for us.  I had all the buffs up most of the night.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We had the most problems when we pulled with ranged weapons.  The taunt has to come fast after the inital strike or the priest will build agro faster than the tank.  If the tank forgot to taunt early and often, it usually went sideways in a hurry.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I say keep the ward component and let the tanks work the agro problem.</DIV>

[Finora]

<P>Not every mystic DejaaVous. I have it up 100% of the time and still don't get agro unless I do something I shouldn't have done to begin with (which does happen when you get tired and should have logged long before you did).  I'm level 47 if you need to know. I also didn't say he was doing anything wrong. I simply suggested it may have been something ELSE he did in the fights, not the Runic buff that was getting him the unwarrented agro.</P> <P>The only thing I'm even doing different than I did before the revamp in groups is that I'm not warding pre-pull unless I think the tank/puller will die before he gets back with the mob otherwise. I fully debuff shortly after the mobs arrive, all of them in the encounter, and proceed to beat on which ever one the tank is on tossing wards, heals and cures as needed.</P> <P>I think it has to be more of a tank problem than a buff problem. There are a lot of tanks struggling with the new changes, and I must say be wary of tanks that grouped mostly with clerics pre-changes hehe they were spoiled with the agro.</P> <P> </P>

[Surly_Smurf]

<DIV>Well, all I can say is what I've experienced. I'm a 50 Mystic on Guk server. I noticed peculiar aggro problems when my group was running around Sinking Sands. My party members would run a little too close to a mob and it would aggro.....me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In game terms I was several feet away and the mobs would turn, and run right down the middle between my group-members straight at me. We were tankless (mystic, warlock, & troub I think?) so I ended up defacto tank. The mobs were various kinds of blue so it was by NO means killing me, but I do find it disturbing as I see a great <STRONG>potential</STRONG> to be made into a chewtoy for the next <FONT color=#ff6600>Orange ^^^</FONT> an unwary group-member aggro's, accidentally. I have not attempted to recreate the situation with RT turned off, but from what I've read so far tonight it is a good possibility it is the culprit. I'm not saying take that aspect away. I LIKE the ward kept onto the buff. If I have to live with the aggro...Okay, I'll live with it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I didn't say I would be HAPPY about it. But I'll live with it.  At least I know if I'm tanking, all I need is to throw up my group-ward in place of a taunt. :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[thedu]

<DIV>I would like weigh in on this also. Same thing as other people, not doing anything, standing far away from mobs ...all of sudden we have 1 or 2 mobs on ME! As much as I would hate to lose the ward on this spell, it truly sucks. I have grouped with a high level 47 tank (I'm 40) and still they made beeline for me. In a 40-41 group tonight in both Feerrott and Lavastorm, I was constantly getting aggroed...doing nothing.  I'm seriously going to have to drop this spell during groups...I've died about 20 times in the last 3 days, and it has not been fun.  I'm doing better soloing than grouping.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The other odd behavior is with a mystic and cleric in the same group. Mobs will aggro me first and right after I'm dead go for the cleric. This is definitely a big deal. I know other's are not seeing the same problem but I wonder if there other spells in the group that counter the ward/aggro generation somehow and I'm just missing that particular class in my groups...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The group cures have the same issue, i.e. prophetic guard places a ward as well..</DIV><p>Message Edited by thedump on <span class=date_text>09-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:31 PM</span>

[crunchybob]

<P>Interesting that the level 50's/high 40's arent having a problem and are pointing to tanks as the issue, while the level 30-42ish crowd seem to be taking it in the shorts...are the tanks in that range that innefective, or is the buff in that range pulling more aggro than the tanks can manage?</P> <P> </P> <P>Just an observation...</P>

[Baccalarium]

<P>I have to say I like the ward, even if I don't like the agro from it.   At least two occasions already from an encounter gone bad,  I've seen the regenerating ward ticking right in sync with a mob's last dot before I ran for saftey.   Gave me just enough enough warding to keep that small sliver of HP I ran from the ecounter with from vanishing.</P> <P>Loosing the agro from this ward would be nice, but the tanks I've been dealing with can handle it, and although my agro disperser has moved to a main quick bar,  its still not been used but perhaps 1 in 20 battles.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[SweetSyc]

Yea, I like the ward on this buff, and don't want it removed, but I think it's assigning too much aggro for the damage it prevents. I don't get as much aggro from casting a large group ward as when my RT ticks a couple times, it seems. <div></div>

[Tylee]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Baccalarium wrote:<BR> <P>I have to say I like the ward, even if I don't like the agro from it.   At least two occasions already from an encounter gone bad,  I've seen the regenerating ward ticking right in sync with a mob's last dot before I ran for saftey.   Gave me just enough enough warding to keep that small sliver of HP I ran from the ecounter with from vanishing.</P> <P>Loosing the agro from this ward would be nice, but the tanks I've been dealing with can handle it, and although my agro disperser has moved to a main quick bar,  its still not been used but perhaps 1 in 20 battles.</P> <P><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>that little ward it gives you is sweet.  saw it myself today when i bit off more than i could chew waiting for my group to assemble out in Everfrost.  Pretty little thing was ticking away and i was barely alive screaming RUN HORSEY RUN! me and horsey made out alive and that pretty little ward was what did it, because had i stopped to cast anything, i would have been toast.  <BR>

[Karlen]

<font color="#ffff00">I have grouped with a high level 47 tank (I'm 40) and still they made beeline for me. <font color="#ffffff">As a matter of interest if a level 47 tank mob and a level 40 priest mob were attacking you, which one would you go after first?</font> </font><div></div>

[KindredHeart]

<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT></DIV> <P><FONT size=2>Mystics are generating too much aggro!</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>I play a level 50 Mystic.  If I don't ward anything (not even myself), have attack off, and just stand there on a pull I <B>still</B> get aggro. If I'm in combat range at all (and I'm talking really far away even) the mob will run over to where I am and start beating me on a pull.  Assuming the tank is pulling with a taunt (which most tanks do unless the target is too far away or clustered too tightly with other mobs) this seems awfully broken to me.<BR><BR>I have to believe I have default aggro on the initial hate list. Even though none of my buff descriptions say they have any form of hate attached to them (believe me I've read every single one), and even though I don't ward anything.  Perhaps the buffs Mystics put on their group cause this to be the case. And IF the buffs DO generate hate then that needs to be updated in the spell descriptions with the hate amount.  Either way I find it very annoying.<BR><BR>The only way I have found that I can absolutely avoid getting beaten up on a pull is to be <B>completely</B> out of combat range on the pull. Stand back not doing anything until the fight is well underway and then charge into battle. This is a "tactic" that seems completely impractical to me for most zones and situations and I find it hard to imagine it was the game designers intent that Mystics be played that way.<BR><BR>Aside from that the only other thing I've seen is if the mob is pulled and mezzed immediately, then the tank has a chance to get aggro before it comes charging at the Mystic - but again this would require a mezz class to always be grouped with a Mystic - something that also seems improbable as the intent of the game designers.<BR><BR>I have a once every 5 minute massive hate reducing spell I can cast, but only one. And since it takes 15 minutes to refresh it can't be used for every pull.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>So basically, if they want to "challenge" tanks by making them get aggro off of Mystics then they really need to up our hitpoints or make a self only ward that doesn't continue to increase hate.  Because it only takes a few hits from a group con mob and the Mystic will go down, even with the poor tank standing there throwing every taunt he has in the book at it.  Especially if you don't ward yourself in the completely useless attempt not to generate EVEN more aggro.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>Also, if this was at all balanced doesn't it make sense that on occation the mob would seek me out, and on other occations it would seek out other priest types?  I've now grouped with every other priest type - and guess who ALWAYS gets the aggro (even without warding or healing) ... ME the Mystic.  This was even the case when the other priests were using their regens and versions of wards.  Absolutely broken in this Mystic's opinion.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>Soloing - well I'm not thrilled - but I can live with it.  Grouping with my Mystic though absolutely STINKS!  And considering how much I'm instantly dying on a pull - I can't even imagine what trying to raid with my Mystic is going to be like.  I have honestly been too afraid to try it.  I've taken to fighting in groups consisting of at least two priests, and usually three only because I can't keep myself alive much less the group on a pull unless mine or someone else's "emergency save them" spell is refreshed.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>I'll tell ya one thing - been seeing "Group seeking healer" a lot more lately.  And I know I've been getting a good deal more unsolicited invitations to groups desperate for a healer.  I think the groups I'm playing with aren't the only ones hording two and three healers at a time.  I feel a bit sorry for those folks trying to put together pick up groups and aren't able to find any available healers as a result.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>EDIT:  Made correction to spell timer mentioned.</FONT></P><p>Message Edited by KindredHeart on <span class=date_text>09-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:13 AM</span>

[Banditman]

<div></div>Play more.  You'll get used to it. You're basically running a 70 HP / tick regen when you run Runic Talisman and you ARE getting hate from that.  So yes, if someone in your group prox aggro's a mob (or group of mobs) YOU are the one who will wind up first on the hate list within 6 seconds if no one else does anything. Adjust and move on. The key is to educate your tank, and if necessary, find another tank.  Some tanks just don't get it. Seriously, it really is MOSTLY the tank.  Yes, there are some things you can do, but last night I had all my buffs running, pre-pull Wards up on the tank and pulling multi mob encounters with no aggro issues. Edit:  SNAP!  I just thought about something I do that I'm not sure other Mystics (or Priests for that matter) do.  I stand behind and slightly to the side of the tank in the line of pull.  Not so close as to eat a barrage or something, but in such a way that the mobs don't run far from the tank in the event that Runic ticks.  Basically, if you are standing too far off to the side, the mobs will run toward you in such a way so as to be out of range of the AE Taunt your tank fires off. I also make sure to run directly to the tank in the event that something takes even ONE swipe at me.  This puts the mobs right there for the tank to grab.  My tank knows that the only reason I will be anywhere near him is if something is hitting me.<p>Message Edited by Banditman on <span class=date_text>09-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:37 AM</span>

[KindredHeart]

<P>What else were you grouped with?  I have to ask because the combination does make a difference.  If you had a bard singing a hate reducing song, and a mezz class with you helping keep aggro under control - then yeah it could appear that your tank was doing an outstanding job.</P> <P>I find it difficult to imagine it's the tanks I've been grouping with considering they are fabled geared and we are in a raiding guild and have been discussing all of this in great detail.</P> <P>Also, are you waiting at all until after the pull to cast a particular one of your perma-buffs and then turning it off before each new fight?  If you believe your tanks have a better understanding of their class or tactics in general then please post a summary of what they are doing so that we may all better understand their approach.</P> <P>As I said though, I honestly do not believe the problem rests with the tanks I've been playing with (and thus far I have tried guardians, berserkers, monks, and paladins as my MT in a variety of grouping combinations trying to figure this junk out).  I truly believe that Mystics have too much initial hate on pulls.  I'm not saying we shouldn't have any, but I do think we have way too much as it stands now.  Especially since I remain the primary target even when other priest classes are in the group actively casting - and I'm standing there doing absolutely nothing.</P><p>Message Edited by KindredHeart on <span class=date_text>09-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:22 AM</span>

[Karlen]

>>>I find it difficult to imagine it's the tanks I've been grouping with considering they are fabled geared and we are in a raiding guild and have been discussing all of this in great detaiil.<<< As a matter of interest, how would having fabled gear affect who gets aggro? <div></div>

[KindredHeart]

<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>As a matter of interest, how would having fabled gear affect who gets aggro? <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your sarcasm has been noted.  It doesn't affect aggro as you well know.  However, in order to obtain it in the first place you have to be a bit better than the average bear.  Generally speaking you are the type of player who studies your class and the game, and has a firm grasp on what's required to reach the upper levels of achievement within the game.  That's all that comment was intended to indicate...the overall general caliber of the tanks I was talking about.</DIV>

[Banditman]

I have yet to see so much aggro on pull that one AE taunt won't claim it all for the tank. Now, if something is out of range of that taunt, or if the tank fails to follow that taunt with an AE damage, yes, I can pull aggro. Even in that case, I've never had aggro that Accordant Spirits couldn't drop for me. This has worked for my groups every time: Pull with arrow.  Be sure that you are standing in such a location that the mobs will have to run *through* the tank to get to you.  Positioning is key.  If the mobs are able to get far enough from the tank on pull they can get out of range of his AE taunt and NOT GET TAUNTED.  Untaunted mobs EAT HEALERS. Tank AE taunts when mobs arrive, tank AE DD.  Even if mobs are running to me, once that AE taunt goes down, they refocus on the tank.  Once the AE DD (or any old DD if just one mob), it's aggro locked, game over. I can then debuff, AE DD, DoT, Ward, Heal . . . whatever.

[tebion]

well, this weekend i was grouped with a guardian, paladin, shadowknight and a ranger, all lvl 50, no fabled gear, tanks have a decent ebon rate though. Guardian tanked, pal and SK in full dps mode, i had runic up and pre-warded all the time and i never ever had an aggro problem, too. but yes, bandit is right, positioning does help, too, and the worst thing you can do if getting aggro is running around like a chicken <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Karlen]

<span><blockquote><hr>KindredHeart wrote:<div> <hr> </div> <div>As a matter of interest, how would having fabled gear affect who gets aggro? <hr> </div> <div> </div> <div>Your sarcasm has been noted.  It doesn't affect aggro as you well know.  However, in order to obtain it in the first place you have to be a bit better than the average bear.  Generally speaking you are the type of player who studies your class and the game, and has a firm grasp on what's required to reach the upper levels of achievement within the game.  That's all that comment was intended to indicate...the overall general caliber of the tanks I was talking about.</div><hr></blockquote>Unfortunately, a firm grasp on what was required prior to the update to reach the upper levels of achievement might not help post-update since they changed so much in almost everyone's class. Some players will learn to adapt and some will refuse to do so.  I suspect that those in fabled gear and in raiding guilds are among those most able to adapt, although it is possible that some will be so convinced that they are superior players that they don't need to adapt.</span><div></div>

[KindredHeart]

<HR> Even in that case, I've never had aggro that Accordant Spirits couldn't drop for me.<BR> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do you only pull once every five minutes?  That spell doesn't refresh nearly fast enough to be reused for loosing pull aggro.  It is only ever really useful if you end up with countless adds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the AE taunt, I will try making sure I am glued to the tank's butt tonight and retest to make sure I didn't overlook this and stand out of range.  As for it taking one taunt...I have been there standing right next to the tank and seen his taunt animation go off over and over and over while the mob kept beating on me.  Meanwhile the other two priests in the group were doing everything in their power to keep me alive.  Definitely not getting aggro off me with merely one taunt.  And this with the Master version of their taunt spells.  So...don't know what to say.  But I am open-minded enough to at least give your suggest merit and try again.  I'm pretty sure though - that I'm not standing out of range except for the few times I purposefully did so as an experiment (as mentioned above).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EDIT:  Made correction to spell timer mentioned.</DIV><p>Message Edited by KindredHeart on <span class=date_text>09-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:14 AM</span>

[Finora]

I had my first problems with Runic last night.  If people other than the tank got near enough to a mob to agro it, it came for me. Quite annoying. I have yet to have any trouble getting agro on a real pull though. Last night the tank was pulling constantly, I could debuff as soon as the mobs were in range and throw a ward or heal on the tank as well. He had no trouble getting initial agro nor any trouble keeping it. These were multiple mob encounters, by the way. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think I used accordant spirits only 2 times the whole night and that was to dislodge something that one of the bards had picked up wandering around where they shouldn't have.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Runic is indeed bugged, but if your tank is worth his salt it isn't that bad at all to deal with until they figure something out.  I'm certainly not going to stop using it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I should add that before the bards joined he had no trouble at all maintaining pull agro and I didn't get the extra agro from mobs that wandered close by before someone says "AHA! Your bards were what kept you from getting agro!" . </DIV><p>Message Edited by Calendri on <span class=date_text>09-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:47 AM</span>

[KindredHeart]

<HR> ...one of the bards... <DIV> <HR> </DIV>I'm still gonna say it *giggle*.  So not only did you have one bard - you had more than one in your group?  I think that's why you weren't experiencing the aggro problem to be honest.  Have you had the same blissful experience in a group that did not include a bard?  If so what was the group composition in those cases?<p>Message Edited by KindredHeart on <span class=date_text>09-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:09 AM</span>

[Blublood]

<P>Runic does cause some aggro issues but on the average mobs that I am xping on rarely get the chance to do enuff damage before the tank peels him off me. The only time this can be a major issue is when dealing with epics. Now that they are truely epic they have the ability to kill you in 1 or 2 hits.  On pick up groups I make it a point to inform the tank that he will need to open up with a taunt or i will get opening aggro, I really hate to tell a L50+ player how to play but the poor tanks are relearning their class the same as us.</P> <P> </P> <P>Blublud </P> <P>49 Mystic</P> <P>Unrest</P>

[lollygagger]

My experience on my first day after revamp: First group: Zerker tank, Troub, Swash & Warden. Group Buffs: Avatar, Eidolic Mettle, Runic Talisman, Spirit of the Elephant, Prophecy Wards: Pre-pull and durning combat I did not draw agro once. Second group: Troub, Swash, Warden Group Buffs: Avatar, Eidolic Mettle, Runic Talisman, Spirit of the Elephant, Prophecy Wards: during combat only Not only did i get agro when I warded the Troub, I got agro when others drew adds just running through Pillars of Flames.  The scorpions jumped on someone in group then cam right for me.  Guess that's what everyone is talking about with Runic Talisman. Consludion:  Totally agree with Banditman that with a tank that know's his/her class aggro is definately now a problem for us Mystics. //heeler Splitpaw <div></div>

[KindredHeart]

Try it without the Troubadour.

[Banditman]

I normally do not play with a Bard in group, they are simply too rare, at least on my server.

[Finora]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KindredHeart wrote:<BR> <HR> ...one of the bards... <DIV> <HR> </DIV>I'm still gonna say it *giggle*.  So not only did you have one bard - you had more than one in your group?  I think that's why you weren't experiencing the aggro problem to be honest.  Have you had the same blissful experience in a group that did not include a bard?  If so what was the group composition in those cases? <P>Message Edited by KindredHeart on <SPAN class=date_text>09-19-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:09 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Actually KindredHeart, my agro was WORSE once the bards joined the group. Until the bards joined I didn't get agro at all. Even when the other people ran near mobs. Perhaps I'm lucky. Perhaps my tank is able to produce HUGE amounts of agro or something with his respec and self-made spells, but that is how it worked out.  I'll have to try it with a different tank perhaps and see how they fair.

[Banditman]

I do know that a Troubador has a spell which has a chance to proc a mental DD when any hostile spell lands on a mob.  Thus it would in fact be easier to draw aggro with a Troub in group if you are debuffing the mob(s).

[lollygagger]

Third group: SHadow Kinight, Templar, Monk Group Buffs: Avatar, Eidolic Mettle, Runic Talisman, Spirit of the Elephant, Prophecy Wards: Pre-pull and durning combat No issues with aggro. //heeler Splitpaw <div></div>

[Volka]

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=60602&page=2 They said the issue/bug with ward/buff aggro was recognized and fixed, to be seen in a coming update. <div></div>

[Mystiq]

<div></div>BTW Accordant Spirits has a 5 minute refresh, not 15. I'm kind of surprised how many haven't figured this change out considering the topic of our discussions. My core group consists of a Guardian (the best on my server), myself, and a chain pulling Troubador. In the other three slots we have had a Warden, Enchanter, Dirge, Swash, Berserker, Templar, Warlock and Conjurer IIRC. Doesn't seem to matter what the group config is, or where I stand, or even if i have Runic Talisman up, I tend to get aggro consistently when pulls are coming in. I also wanted to note that the regenerating ward ticks of RC are in no way the same as HoT ticks from a druid with respects to aggro. Wardens can have several HoT's on a person and the group, that heal for higher values than RC, and be almost impervious to aggro, preemptive or mid-fight. It seems shamans and druids have quite traded places. I can probably chaulk most of it up to wards on the tank. Even though I don't pre ward on inc, often times a ward remains from a previous fight, which amounts to the same thing. My tank prefers I stand on top of him so that he can reach mobs hitting me with taunt since taunts have lame range, but then I end up eating Assault and Barrage since it seems every mob around has some kind of AE attack. Not to mention it can be harder to spot aggro on others if the mobs all still look like they're facing you.  If I stand farther away, which I prefer, it doesn't seem to lessen my chance of getting misplaced aggro, and that makes me have to run over to the tank so he can taunt the mob on me, while I'm being hit, and I can't protect myself (unless I use instas, which I rarely need to) while running. Our ae deaggro spell is great, but nobody has the foresight to know just when to use it and when to save it, so there are times when it's down when things get hairy. Anyways, it still seems rather unclear to me just how to solve my personal aggro problem. My group is hardcore. Pulls come fast and large. I should expect to get hit once in a while, but that doesn't mean I should get hit enough to be considered the group's off tank. Perhaps shaman are just not suited to a chain pulling environment. And all of this coupled with an increase in being stunned, on top of what seems to be a ridiculous fizzle rate (anyone else notice this, or am I nuts?) is making the exp grind a lot less fun than I wish it were. <div></div>

[KindredHeart]

<DIV>Thank you for posting your experiences Mystique.  I know I, and many other Mystics on our server, greatly respect you and your opinion.  Also, I have corrected my mention of Accordant as being on a 15 minute timer.  I was posting from work and did not have the information in front of me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you are willing to share, I was wondering do you bother warding or trying to heal yourself in those first few aggro moments of the fight, or do you find it easier for your tank to take back aggro if you do nothing at all?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for your fizzle rate, no you're not nuts - but I will say your absolutely insane leveling speed probably has a tad bit to do with it too *giggle*.  You guys are machines <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and I wish I had your stamina.</DIV><p>Message Edited by KindredHeart on <span class=date_text>09-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:54 AM</span>

[Banditman]

Fizzles are way up, its well known.  Even stupid things can fizzle now. This is a significant problem. In the past, when you would queue up a couple spells in a row due to having so many available, a fizzle wasn't such a huge deal because you had another spell in queue and it would start casting immediately upon fizzle of the prior spell. Now, you don't have enough spells to build a queue.  The spell you try to cast may be the ONLY spell you have available at the time, and so a fizzle is far more costly.

[Purcupile]

<P>Regarding the Runic line, leveled to 32 last night.  I did not receive Runic Shield when I hit 31 last week but did receive Touch of the Grey at 31.  The spell list indicates I should have received Runic Shield at 31 and Touch of the Grey at 33.  Maybe I'll have to wait to 33 to see if I get Runic Shield.  Or perhaps this indicates they are working on the Runic line and those of us who didn't have it Pre-expansion are having it delayed until they get it worked out.</P> <P> </P> <P>I leveled 31 and 32 since the changes...all solo, and other than a problem with a Diviner who wouldn't go down (had to run to escape him repeatedly...I did not die once from 31-32.  I would have to say that I am pleased by being able to solo again.  But it sounds as if I am going to have to learn a lot to be able to Group effectively.</P> <P>EDIT: I hate typo's!</P> <P>Purcupile</P> <P>Level 32 Mystic</P> <P>Kithicor </P> <p>Message Edited by Purcupile on <span class=date_text>09-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:06 AM</span>

[Eepop]

I picked it as a training option, so it is definitely somewhere between 31-34.  <div></div>

[Mystiq]

<span><blockquote><hr>KindredHeart wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <div>Thank you for posting your experiences Mystique.  I know I, and many other Mystics on our server, greatly respect you and your opinion.  Also, I have corrected my mention of Accordant as being on a 15 minute timer.  I was posting from work and did not have the information in front of me.</div> <div> </div> <div>If you are willing to share, I was wondering do you bother warding or trying to heal yourself in those first few aggro moments of the fight, or do you find it easier for your tank to take back aggro if you do nothing at all?</div> <div> </div> <div>As for your fizzle rate, no you're not nuts - but I will say your absolutely insane leveling speed probably has a tad bit to do with it too *giggle*.  You guys are machines <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and I wish I had your stamina.</div><p>Message Edited by KindredHeart on <span class="date_text">09-20-2005</span> <span class="time_text">09:54 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>As for what I do when I get aggro it depends on when I get it. If it is when a pull is coming in, I chalk it up to a remaining ward on someone or just randomness, and usually once the taunts happen they get right off me without me having to do anything at all. If it's mid fight I normally run to the tank then heal/ward myself if needed. Also depends on how hurt i'm getting. If I have several mobs on me I will ward myself and use my deaggro if it's up. If anyone has any questions feel free to /tell permafrost.mystique. I don't claim to know everything but I'll help if I can. Also don't forget to /join permafrost.allmystics channel too. </span><div></div>

[Thatdumbg]

<div></div>When its a group of mobs mid-fight, I find myself using the de-aggro first now... before the tank-charging or the warding/healing. That stun effect is killer! It gives me the time to assess whether they are still on me, and if they are, then i charge the tank and torpor or ward myself as needed. EDIT: forgot to say what or who I was charging hehe <div></div><p>Message Edited by Thatdumbguy on <span class=date_text>09-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:30 AM</span>

[radlih]

Buffs are not the source of the evil agro enhancement.  Sadly being a Mystic is the sole source.  Warden 40, Wizard 42, Mystic 45, Guardian 47 *2, Templar 43.  Everyone has full buffs up and no pre-attack warding.  Who gets the agro, the Mystic of course.  Not the lowest level, not the best healer, not the worst armor and least HP, not the best buffer, and not the ones who started the fight. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardian starts fight with arrow pull.  Mob runs up to Guardian and stops and looks at Guardian.  Mob makes bee line to Mystic running over the Warden and Templar and totally ignoring the second Guardian.  Mob pays no attention to the Wizard and trys to eat the Mystic.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Conclusion, Mystic have uber bad faction with developers.</DIV>

[Thatdumbg]

Eloora, I recommend cancelling the wards after the fight, if necessary. It sounds like this may be the root of the problem. Once the tank DOES have aggro, there is no reason to be standing on top of him. If he has a group locked down, you can stand pretty much directly in the center of their arc, behind them, and he can taunt everything just fine. What is the Troubador using to pull, and is he using any deaggro spells when he does so? If he is the main puller, this could also seriously affect your aggro. My normal group right now is Guardian, Mystic, Templar, Wizard, Dirge, Guardian (seems odd, but works great in Poet's Palace because the mobs are so much higher level then us), and I'm not experiencing problems other then the occasional add from a resisted protect (the guardians encounter taunt), and then only because I preward. Then again, my Guardian is pulling, and while the pulls are fast, we aren't really grinding most times, in the sense of chain-pulling. Also, guardians get a new spell called Assuage, make sure that they are looking into it. It appears to use the same icon and to be an upgrade to another spell, but has another effect entirely. Dunno, just throwing out some ideas. <div></div>

[BALTO]

ah seen enough pulls in groups to know for a fact its a random, or bad tank agro management issue, were just agro magnets, pre-ward no pre-warding, left over wards, group wards... some times the mobs are stuck to us like glue, even after this "Fix" kinda like are pet, say's its fixed but i have yet to see it functioning as intended.  did notice a SLIGHT LIL decrease in agro, but NOTHING to write home about.  out of every one hour session, there will be a mob that wants to be my best friend "till death do us part"...hand them feathers out hehe is my best advice, yes even the hate lessening spell we have, thanks soe for maken it come down in its re-use timer...is defaco alot of times on this situation, unless you have another healer in group to keep ya alive an to offset any more self hate induction due to self warding to stay alive...but then again that makes it so we have to have 2 healers in group, a issue we wanted to avoid be'n that 'back up' role i've even come to the point of say'n "INC" when ever i see another player in group get hit...i know they'll be come'n around the corner for me!  lol, NO pre-ward, no runic buff, they want our blood. face it in my understandings from pre-launch, at launch, even in eq2 2.0, were still SOE's black sheep.  Morongard has to hate us it seems from old eq, and is getting his revenge in eq2 on us....dont know what his giss is with overlooking us constantly. and i know for sure it wont stop till they hire an fire some folks inthere dev team. i mean come on fan boys an fan girls...i seen your votes in the yes an no do you like your mystic now after revamp...an mostly everyones say'n yes that "at least" its better than what we were before... reminds me of stalkhome syndrome, the kidnappers are begining to stand up for their ubducters. <div></div>

[Banditman]

You seem to be the only one who is still having aggro problems above what is considered normal. Stockholm.

[Mystiq]

I really see no inordinate amount of "random" aggro since hate on wards was lowered. Runic Talisman still tends to add a bit more pre-emptive aggro to me, but it depends on who's pulling and how, and it's usually before the mobs are in range of the tanks taunts. Are you guys still having concern-worthy aggro since the hate fix? <div></div>

[Banditman]

No.  I haven't tanked a mob all week.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[paisan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Banditman wrote:<BR>No.  I haven't tanked a mob all week.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>*puts on his best John Wayne*</P> <P>A day without tankin a mob, is like a day without sunshine...</P> <P> </P> <P>I have also had good experiences with the agro changes. Runic still causes the mobs to initially come after us but not by much. They can easily be peeled off.</P>

[thedu]

I haven't grouped at all since the aggro patch so I don't know how well it's working. A good place to try any expirments would be Cazic Thule. I went there(before the aggro change) with primarily a low 40's group, a 38 inquisitor, 41 wiz, 41 ranger, 42 assasin, and a 47 Guardian.  We were primarily on the first floor by the Glare Lords (evil eyes). What would typically happen is this:  Guard would go in and start hitting the Glare Lord. As soon as he started the fight 5-6 grouped golems would pop. The layout is that the Glare Lords are in a room and there is a hallway leading to it -- my usual strategy (along with a wiz) was to wait outside until things got started. Well, invariably 80% of the time, the golems would run straight at me. This was before slows, debuffs, and wards.  If <font color="#ff0033">level aggro</font> actually worked they would attack the 38 cleric, who would always be in the thick of the fighting, but they 99% of the time never did. If <font color="#ff0033">range aggro</font> actually worked they would attacked the ranger, wiz, assasin and/or the guardian but they didnt. If <font color="#ff0033">dps aggro</font> actually worked they would attack the ranger or assasin. I actually had accordant spirits at that point and was able to stun them a few times, but not always. I don't know if it's necessarily the runic line that's causing the hate, because some have posted that dropped this buff, and still got aggro. <div></div>

[Banditman]

Feel free to give it a try.

[KindredHeart]

<HR> Are you guys still having concern-worthy aggro since the hate fix? <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So far so good, seem to be all better now.  Even went on a raid with my Mystic last night.  VAST improvement over what I was initially experiencing post revamp. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[CallMeToyMan]

It's much better now.  Infact I would say it's just about perfect.  Aggro is controllable now without being completely negated (which would make the game boring). I'm still careful when I put up Runic Talisman and warn the tank he needs to use a high aggro pull (in cases where the tank is using a proximity pull then I turn it off).  But as long as the tank is doing his job Runic Talisman is an excellent buff. Likewise I occassionally get aggro if my ward is up pre-pull and the tank slacks or accidently pulls by moving too close to the mobs.  Roamers can occassionally be a problem for the same reasons if Runic Talisman is up and the roamer causes damage on a party member before the tank can taunt it.  However we do have some hitpoints and middle of the road mitigation gear so I like the way the game feels now.  The occassional beating we take is fine so long as the tank is doing his job and pulling aggro on to himself as soon as possible. <div></div>