Mind Set Shaman Class Main Healers ? WRONG !

[StumbleFoot]

<DIV>     Well gonna put this out with the knowledge I am gonna be roasted royaly. From my reading of this board I get the feeling that people have the misconception that Shamans can be main healers. This is wrong Shamans can act as mains is certain instances but not all the time. This was true in EQ 1. The strength of a Shaman there was the ability to cast ubar buffs, DoT and act as a slower when no Chanter as around. EQ2 is different to say the least Class balance is way out of wack in most cases.  The fact is Shamans neither excel as buffers - slowers - healers. I dealy each class be it cleric, shaman or druid should have a well define role in a group they don't or if they do I fail to see it in the few groups I have been in. Even at 18 wards are a joke and a power drain when alternating between ward and heal. In the mean time while waiting for SoE to make up its randomly dispersed minds you play to the strenght of the class and not keeping the mind set we are main healers people may just find playing the class a little more fun. Yes it would be great if we could heal better but if we could heal like a cleric there would be no need for the cleric. What it comes down to is cleric are the main healers all other healing class's are secondary with limited ability as a main healer. Shamans main ability should be his buffs and to act as a slower/DoT. Only thing is most fights I have been in with a group are over before thay have began and the slow/dots don't seem to take effect or come to full power if you would so in that respect the shaman class is out on a limb and not really wanted. Instead of makeing  us a healer on par with a cleric I believe the dynamics of mob encounters will need to be changed is some fashion so that the supporting priest class can come to full terms with their strenght beyond  that of healing.. Just remember Shamans are not main healer, were never meant to be one although our healing powers could be improved more but not to the extent of the cleric's</DIV> <DIV>      Think I better shut up and go work on my tiller...sorry about spelling..spell checker is down ATM</DIV>

[Silda]

<div></div>I think Banditman has a macro with a response to this already, so I will wait for him to post <span>:smileytongue: Except for the part about "Shaman were never meant to be Main Healers". The devs have stated otherwise since the archetype system was introduced....stop thinking with an EQ1 mindset. </span> <div></div><p>Message Edited by Sildaan on <span class=date_text>05-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:59 AM</span>

[DobermanChampion]

<P>I agree LOL, wish we can sticky bandits response.</P> <P> </P> <P>I dont know if the op is a troll or just have not bothered to read any of the posts in this section</P> <p>Message Edited by DobermanChampion on <span class=date_text>05-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:00 AM</span>

[Cori]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <P><B><FONT color=#ff0000 size=3>Per Moorgard:</FONT></B></P> <P><B><FONT color=#ffff99 size=3>Will there be enough variety in the classes and subclasses of an archetype, or will all priests, for instance, be the same?</FONT></B></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=3>Will there be variety? Of course. Different abilities, spells, combat styles... the whole works. Some classes will be able to do some tasks better than others, but the primary purpose of the class will always be there.</FONT></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Now I ask you StumbleFoot.  What is the <FONT color=#ff0000>primary purpose</FONT> of a Priest?<BR>

[StumbleFoot]

<DIV>     If I just took the last part in its self then the answer would be to HEAL of course,.I have no argument with that statement however if you back up a line he states ( some classes will be able to do some tasks better than others) sounds like double talk to me. If that were true then Shamans as a priest class would have the same healing ability as cleric from the beginning Sounds like SoE dropped the ball as usual.</DIV> <DIV>     AS for the EQ! mindset you may be right to a point, after all 6 years of playing lends itself to a certain amount of mindset. However I hope I am not so set in my thinking that it hampers my learning of new ways and 500 years of evolution. Lo at 60 years young its a triffle hard to seperate RL exp for learning how to be a kid agin :smileyhappy:</DIV>

[Banditman]

<div></div><b><a target="_blank" href="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005286/">Cole Sear</a></b>: I see dead people.<b><a target="_blank" href="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000246/">Malcolm Crowe</a></b>: In your dreams?[<i>Cole shakes his head no</i>]<b><a target="_blank" href="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000246/">Malcolm Crowe</a></b>: While you're awake?[<i>Cole nods</i>]<b><a target="_blank" href="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000246/">Malcolm Crowe</a></b>: Dead people like, in graves? In coffins?<b><a target="_blank" href="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005286/">Cole Sear</a></b>: Walking around like regular people. They don't see each other. They only see what they want to see. They don't know they're dead.<b><a target="_blank" href="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000246/">Malcolm Crowe</a></b>: How often do you see them?<b><a target="_blank" href="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005286/">Cole Sear</a></b>: All the time.Make the substitution yourself.I'm so tired of explaining this to people.  Someone once suggested I make the explanation my signature.  I am going to do just that.

[korrg]

<DIV>i'm only level 25 (meaning i haven't been playing long) and i'm already tired of all this.  i will never see why eq1 is brought into this since the games are are basically unrelated.  not only that, but anyone claiming a shaman in eq1 didn't make a good primary healer didn't know how to play their class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>at my level, wards are still worth the power it takes to cast.  from reading the numerous posts on the subject, it's obvious that later on that doesn't hold true.  ok.  everyone knows this now and has known it for some time.  so why do these posts keep popping up?  probably because the original posters think they have something new to say, in the form of rearraging the words previously used.  so... these posts will never end until the issue is actually addressed, and when that happens another problem will arise and take it's place.  hopeless.</DIV>

[Venomj]

<DIV>not as funny in the re-read... deleted.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Venomjak on <span class=date_text>05-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:24 PM</span>

[Chanliang]

For the original poster as you expected I'd say bulls..t. By description we're primary healers if it we'rent so by SOE's promise I'd never would done shaman but warden instead. What comes to debuffs ours are currently well I'd say more or less worhtless in the point of view if our primary role would be debuffer. Defilers are debuffers if you ask me, they might not get 35% slow in form which roots caster but for example their T5 master Loathsome Seal spell (level 47) debuffed something like 56 str/agi/sta and -8 defence and might be much more with scaling when leveling up. That's 2xbetter than any of our debuff. We actually need 2-3 debuffs to gain such efficiency. But enough for that least it was nice to see that our evil counterparts have still some real debuffing abilities left. <div></div>

[Terq]

<DIV>Stumblefoot,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't understand why people continually say this when is directly against everything that the Devs have said about the archetype system.  This game is not EQ1, and was never meant to be EQ1.  Like others have said, we are healers, and what is the main function of a healer?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As there are at least 1.21 giga-resplys and corrections of the misguided and antiquated opinion that you have, I am not going to post another.  My words would be wasted.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Every dev statement since pre-beta has preached balance at the archetype level.  Until I see a dev statement contrary to this, your statement is simply uniformed rhetoric.  Do your homework before coming to class.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Banditman]

<span><blockquote><hr>korrgan wrote:<div>... not only that, but anyone claiming a shaman in eq1 didn't make a good primary healer didn't know how to play their class.</div> <div> </div> <hr></blockquote> Drivel. Complete and total drivel. Tell ya what, let's go do a Sewer Trial.  I'll take a 65 Cleric as MH for my group, you take a 65 Shaman.  See who lives through the first pull.  Hint:  It won't be the Shaman's group. </span><div></div>

[CrymsonAnClov]

<P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Banditman wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> korrgan wrote:<BR> <DIV>... not only that, but anyone claiming a shaman in eq1 didn't make a good primary healer didn't know how to play their class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Drivel.<BR><BR>Complete and total drivel.<BR><BR>Tell ya what, let's go do a Sewer Trial.  I'll take a 65 Cleric as MH for my group, you take a 65 Shaman.  See who lives through the first pull.  Hint:  It won't be the Shaman's group.<BR><BR><BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>ROFL   So true Banditman.   And I tried [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] hard to play my Shaman in EQ1 as a healer.  The healing AAs and the whole sha-bang.   Still not even close to what a cleric could do.   Let see... I could be MH in Plane of Earth and hmm....yeah that was about the limit   lol.</P> <P>The way everything was laid out for priest classes all being able to heal equally, but differently was exactly what I wanted when I started EQ2.   Finally my shaman would be a true healer.....  or not.   <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Godflower]

<P>I tend to agree mostly with the OP.  For the most challeging content in the game 2 healers in a group of 6 is preferable.  It is unrealistic for Shamen (or any healer) to expect to be perfect as the sole healer for every uber encouter when we definitely have weaknesses.  (I find that my mystic works really well with druid types.)  That said I do think there are some power efficiency issues related to wards/mitigation/timers that need to be resolved with the class balance tweak that is coming.  </P> <P>One more thing: the level and quality of the MT makes a huge difference too!</P><p>Message Edited by Godflower on <span class=date_text>05-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:16 AM</span>

[Cori]

<DIV><FONT color=#ffcc00 size=2></FONT></DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffcc00><FONT size=2>Perhaps you’ll change your mind when your Mystic gets a bit higher level as you are just now getting to the point</FONT> <FONT size=2>where the problems start.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffcc00><FONT size=2>In any event; imho, Mystics have either been misrepresented from the start or had their outstanding issues prioritized at the bottom of the bug list or both.</FONT> </FONT></SPAN></P>

[thedu]

<span><blockquote><hr>StumbleFoot wrote:<div>    .... If that were true then Shamans as a priest class would have the same healing ability as cleric from the beginning Sounds like SoE dropped the ball as usual.</div> <div>    </div><hr></blockquote> Stumblefoot, Yes, SoE has admitted that have dropped the ball and that priest balancing is in the works. Unfortunately, they have crippled Mystics with nerfs, under powered wards and heals, and haven't given the community any timeframe for the balancing to even be TESTED.  Your mind set for EQ2 is incorrect, in that the Archetype system <font color="#ff0033">should</font> allow ANY priest to be a main healer, but with differing specialiazation(s). Think of it as the medical profession, all doctors have to have the same foundation, but can specialize in different areas later on; by your own statements, and your supposed reading of this board, you should know the problems associated with Mystics in EQ2, and why there are problems with them being Main Healers currently.</span><div></div>