I like my Mystic

[RRFatUnc]

<DIV>Hi.  I'm a lvl 50 Paladin on Crushbone and I was wondering why all the griping about Mystics?  I have adventured with a mystic as my main healer since lvl 18 when he was a lowly Shaman.  He has been my main healer by choice, and often my only healer by choice.  We have done some incredible things duo, trio, and grouped.  I don't really feel safe having other's back me up when it comes to the nitty gritty high lvl mobs as far as healers go(cept maybe a Warden I know)  So I was just wondering where the problem lies.  Are we missing something?  Is a power working way of from what it's supposed to be doing?  His debuffs have a noticable effect, his slows slow, his wards keep my standing, and his healing is inline with what healing should do. All we ever hear is complianing though about how weak a mystic is when I don't think it's true nor do I think any of his powers are "broken" powerful or nerfed to be unuseable.  I'm wondering if lots of the class problems might come from the person behind the keyboard.  So here I am asking.  This is not meant as a rant, or an opportunity to flame.  I really am wondering what's up since we are planning on starting up some of the bigger mob fights soon, and if a power is not working but we never noticed it on the smaller mobs you can bet it will be noticable on the epic grpx4 trip up arrow mobs.  Thanks in advance for all your two cents, and please keep it friendly.</DIV>

[Chanliang]

hmm what to post.. well first of all you could try to get into team with templar for example ask him/her not to heal and heal encounter or 2 then do opposite let him/her heal and you do just dps or sit mean while, watch power bar.  Also what comes to debuffs slow portion is hard to notice and haze line skill debuff currently in practise doesn't do anything.  Then you can compare situation when you have very long fight. As sayed couple times before we aren't completely gimped just our wards are broken and you start seeing it at 30+ also now haze line is almost useless and very hard to notice any difference without parsers if it's casted or not. Stamina debuffs work fine as they can, buffs are nice, mitigation debuff works fine and our DPS capability is decent. So potentially mystic is very nice class but we need couple spell fixes as well as ward fix. <div></div>

[Banditman]

So, a tank who can heal himself doesn't notice a problem with Mystic "healing" . . . this is supposed to shock / surprise us? Hello? You are healing yourself! Ok, yes, I know, a Paladin really only amounts to about half a healer . . . which is about where Mystics stand at the moment.  So between the two of you, yes, it probably works. <div></div>

[Terq]

<P>Was going to comment, but others seem to have said it all.</P> <P>A tank that can heal himslef is not going to see the issues that a mystic has.</P> <P>At this point, I would normally go into how, according to a number of posts out there, a Palladin's heals are better/more efficient/more powerful than a mystics, but since I haven't done any reseach on this myself, I will refrain.  :smileywink:</P> <P>Like others have said: Find a Templar or Warden.  Pull a yellow mob while grouping with the Mystic.  Kill it, and note the Mytic's power consumption.  Now, pull the same mob/same level with the templar/warden.  Kill it, and note the templar/warden's power consumption.  </P> <P>Notice a difference?  </P>

[Zav]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RRFatUncle wrote:<BR> <DIV> I'm wondering if lots of the class problems might come from the person behind the keyboard. <BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>If you are talking about the keyboard in front of a programmers pc at Sony then yes you are correct in that thinking.<BR>

[Banditman]

<span><blockquote><hr>Zavit wrote: <blockquote> <hr> RRFatUncle wrote: <div> I'm wondering if lots of the class problems might come from the person behind the keyboard.  <hr> </div></blockquote>If you are talking about the keyboard in front of a programmers pc at Sony then yes you are correct in that thinking. <div></div><hr></blockquote> Huh.  I didn't catch that little gem at first pass. Let me just say this.  I'm one of the best healers you'll ever play with.  Hey, I'm not afraid to say it.  My groups in EQLive did things that most people thought were flat out impossible.  I trio'ed Hard LDoN's with a SK and a Ranger . . . when that meant something.  We killed raid mobs with single groups. You can take your speculation and . . . well, use your imagination. Most people here didn't even come here until they started going "Hey, what am I doing wrong here?".  They probably came here, like me, looking for advice on what they could do to perform their job better within the framework of their character. As it turns out, this problem is a pebcak error . . . unfortunately it exists on the side of the software developer, not the end user.</span><div></div>

[Errar]

<P>I have not read the mystic boards for quite some time, and I find myself rejoicing to know that I am not the reason I cannot stomach playing my shaman.  I, like many others, played a shaman in EQ1 (EQlive) to level 65.  I absoloutely loved my shaman in EQ1 and thought I would make one in EQ2.  My wife and I play together most times so she has made several different toons from Pallys to monks to SKs.  No matter which toon she has, I cannot slow the mob enough, ward her fast enough, and heal fast enough to keep her alive against any group of NPCs that con higher than blue.  At 22, my shaman i retired.  My last attempt to play let me so frustrated at her deaths and my inability to keep her alive that I now have no desire to log my shaman in again.</P> <P>Perhaps I am a bad player, but I can solo my 31 necro with ease and can hold all agro off of groups when I play my 33 Guardian.  </P> <P>Again, I want to say thank you to the other Mystics for letting me know that it might not be a bad player after all.</P>

[Banditman]

I hate to burst your bubble . . . but Mystic problems don't rear their head until the late 20's. Up until L25, your Mystic is on good footing with the other Priests.  The difference begins to manifest when the mitigation of the tank goes past 50%. <div></div>

[RRFatUnc]

<DIV>Point one:  I am not, in most cases, healing myself.  My heals are mana intensive, i only actually use em for agro in the begining.  Even my wards are used the same way.  He is healing me alone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Point two:  The haze line isn't crap, it jsut needs follow up.  (Mourning Soul)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Point three:  I do believe the person playing the toon makes a difference.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Thanks for the input as it started.  But it turned into a bit of a flamer run.  Later.  I'm out.</DIV>

[Chanliang]

BTW can anyone really confirm that slows stack? I was in impression that if you cast haze then mourning soul you'll have skill debuffs from haze and slow portion from mourning soul running on mob. Least without parcer this seems to be the case. <div></div>

[Cyanrav]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RRFatUncle wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hi.  I'm a lvl 50 Paladin on Crushbone and I was wondering why all the griping about Mystics?  I have adventured with a mystic as my main healer since lvl 18 when he was a lowly Shaman.  He has been my main healer by choice, and often my only healer by choice.  We have done some incredible things duo, trio, and grouped.  I don't really feel safe having other's back me up when it comes to the nitty gritty high lvl mobs as far as healers go(cept maybe a Warden I know)  So I was just wondering where the problem lies.  Are we missing something?  Is a power working way of from what it's supposed to be doing?  His debuffs have a noticable effect, his slows slow, his wards keep my standing, and his healing is inline with what healing should do. All we ever hear is complianing though about how weak a mystic is when I don't think it's true nor do I think any of his powers are "broken" powerful or nerfed to be unuseable. <FONT size=5> </FONT><FONT color=#ff0033><FONT size=5>I'm wondering if lots of the class problems might come from the person behind the keyboard.</FONT> </FONT> So here I am asking.  This is not meant as a rant, or an opportunity to flame.  I really am wondering what's up since we are planning on starting up some of the bigger mob fights soon, and if a power is not working but we never noticed it on the smaller mobs you can bet it will be noticable on the epic grpx4 trip up arrow mobs.  Thanks in advance for all your two cents, and please keep it friendly.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>The minute you suggested that 500 plus people don't know what they are doing, you turned your question into a flame fest. And now you have the audacity to get....[Removed for Content]. Hmmmmm. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the only healer you have ever played with IS a Shaman, you would of course NOT know the difference. So perhaps, the other mystics where a tad hard on you. I would suggest you do as the other posters here have said, pars your play with a Fury/Templar, THEN come and make your comments. Most of us have indeed, gone out and tested our heals and etc. To have someone that doesn't play our class, admit that they have never really used another kind of healer, come here, and tell (I have to say this again, because it just cracks me up, and read this VERY closly) <FONT color=#ff0033 size=6>500 plus people<FONT color=#ffffff size=2> <FONT size=1>that they don't know what they are doing, is a bit above and beyond. If you are wondering what I am talking about, I suggest you go to the Abilities and check out the 22 page "Mystics nerfed....." thread. That will give you an idea of where the Mystic community (and yes I say community cause I'm pretty durn certain all those mystics didn't come from the same server/guild) got this cockamamy idea that we are less than adequate.</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1>Good luck all,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1>Cyanravyn</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1>Retired Mystic of Tox</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1></FONT> </DIV>

[RRFatUnc]

<DIV>I have done what you have said.  Grouped with multiple healer types, had some do nothing while I had others heal me and switch it around.  Inquisitor, Warden, Fury, Templar, Defiler, all let my life take big hits and fly all over, or let me die.  Mystic barely let my life change, threw slows around, etc.  Now I'll say one thing, I do see the advantage of the other healers.  I am not vaulting the mystic above all else and saying it si the best healer type.  Heck one of the funniest nights I ever played was with two templars who just hit both reactive heals as oftne as they came up, my toon has never done the wave so much in one night, and my life barely came out of the green.  I was simply asking for input.  Which you all are giving me one peice at a time.  I know every class has problems, has people who hate it, and people who love it.  I'm a paladin hehe, on step removed from crap when it comes to alot of things, but I make do and have fun.  As for mourning soul stacking with other slows, the only way I can confirm it is we call that combo the "No Touchie" in my guild, cause once its up you don;t get hit, unless the mob is way overconned.  We also loved Oberon, untill they made the recast time such crap on it recently.</DIV>

[Banditman]

Let me assure you of a few things: Slows do not stack.  I've done more than enough parsing to be considered an authority on the mechanics of our spells and how they stack.  If you cast Haze, and then Mourning Soul the effect on the mob is:  Offensive debuff component from Haze + 35% Slow. Now, that 35% Slow *only* applies to the autoattack portion of the mob's damage.  CA's are completely unaffected by any Slow in the game. This doesn't even address what to do when you have multiple mobs.  Haze them all?  They usually die too fast.  Lethargy?  11% Slow, hardly worth the effort.  MS against one mob?  Again, why bother. If, in the future, you want input, it's probably not in your best interests to come to the Mystic forum and tell people who have been playing the Mystic since launch that they don't know how to play the character. We know how to play the character.  We have put our heads together and come up with the best strategies available for utilizing the tools at our disposal. When we tell you Mystics reside among the least effective healers in the game, we know what it is we speak of.  Can a Mystic get by?  Yes, but it isn't because they are healing.  It's because the tanks in the endgame simply don't get hit much. <div></div>

[Spag]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Banditman wrote:<BR>I hate to burst your bubble . . . but Mystic problems don't rear their head until the late 20's.<BR><BR>Up until L25, your Mystic is on good footing with the other Priests.  The difference begins to manifest when the mitigation of the tank goes past 50%.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I can't say that I agree with this.  I defintely noticed it in the low 20s back in Jan or Feb.  This was also right after they increased the lvl 20+ mob DPS, which I think they have evened out a month ago or so.  However I rolled my druid shortly thereafter and went through those same levels within a few weeks of doing it with my Mystic and had absolutly no problems.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe I am just better suited for my Warden.</DIV>

[Noosehunt]

<span><blockquote><hr>Banditman wrote: Can a Mystic get by?  Yes, but it isn't because they are healing.  It's because the tanks in the endgame simply don't get hit much. <hr></blockquote>I agree totally with this comment. If upcoming combat changes mean that tanks get hit more, it means that we have more work to do, with the same <strike>bind wound</strike> healing ability. </span><div></div>

[Bog]

<DIV>I feel the same why as the poster, what's the problem? I do notice a difference when grouped then solo but solo I have to hunt yellows just to be challenging. My mystic is powerful I have killed all my horic yellow solo and or grouped, now at lvl 23 much hasnt changed but that stupid under water spell at lvl 23 was crap! "The defence sucks" I have never found a group that needed or wanted to fight in water. Mystics are ok they need some love from Dev. Warden could use help with mita-confused about it.  All I hunt I can kill even from what most others die from being if their two lvl higher then my mystic, so whats problem? Is the true argument Mystics are two overpowering from their abilities? I just havn't notice all these issue's a few of you posters are whining about-futher more it's the same few posters I see posting over and over.......... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some of you are to darn mental about it put down the pencil and place your hand on the mouse.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Bogoa on <span class=date_text>05-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:34 PM</span>

[Renn]

Lot of good points about how kinda screwed Mystics are. Then the high and mighty types pop up with the fact that they're so good, they can still 'get by' as a healer. Which I agree with. Skill plays a huge part. I was able to get by with mine just fine, but I got tired of it. It got old working my [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] off to keep a group going (as it's only healer). Skill plays a huge part. So imagine taking your skill.. and applying it to an unbroken healing class. Imagine how good of healers we'd be then with all of the skill we've had to build playing mystics. <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> <div></div>

[Mystiq]

<P>Anyone who comes to these boards, or any thread discussing the issues with our class, and says something like the following....</P> <P>"I don't know what you all are talking about, there's nothing wrong with the Mystic class. The problem must exist between the keyboard and the chair...."</P> <P>"I'm level <insert any level from roughly 20-30> and I solo yellow heroic mobs all the time! My heals/wards are uber and my groups never die omg!"</P> <P>"Mystics aren't "healers". Your slow and debuffs make up for your lack of healing so stop complaining"</P> <P>....needs to go ahead and move on from the discussion. You have no place in it. You are the minority, and although you have the right to your opinion, you don't have the right to call the majority wrong, sorry, you don't. That's what the above type of uninformed statements is basically saying. While we can all theoretically benefit from good strategy when it comes to playing our class, these types of civil exchanges of information isn't what most people that post here end up doing, so we get threads that turn into flames pretty easily. You might not realize what you're doing when you say things like the above statements, but consider yourselves warned.</P> <P>Regards,</P>

[tebion]

<span><blockquote><hr>Bogoa wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div>My mystic is powerful I have killed all my horic yellow solo and or grouped, now at lvl 23 much hasnt changed but that stupid under water spell at lvl 23 was crap! "The defence sucks" I have never found a group that needed or wanted to fight in water. </div><hr></blockquote>i guess this declaration says it all... with a bit of thinking and reading the boards you could find out easily that this spell is far from useless (imo). The EB-Part of the spell is rather an annoyance with the stacking-issues of eb-effects. Does it suck that there is almost no difference between Water Spirit and Aqueous Spirit? and no difference between app1 and adept1 etc? sure but this spell can raise the level of a character in terms of defense by almost one level, and when you check out the difference of a green mob hitting you and a gray one ..... i think you could realize what most others say (and btw, in lvl 20 it was ok, in lvl 40+ solo game is quite acceptable, too (very very slow, but possible), but level up and try being solo healer in non trivial content...</span><div></div>

[Talari]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Errar wrote:<BR> <P>Perhaps I am a bad player, but I can solo my 31 necro with ease and can hold all agro off of groups when I play my 33 Guardian.  </P> <P>Again, I want to say thank you to the other Mystics for letting me know that it might not be a bad player after all.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I have to agree with Errar. I was also wondering what the h.ell I was doing wrong. Other healers were yawning at mobs I had to work my [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] off to keep the tank up. Ofcourse I wondered why I was always oop and on the brink of a heart attack after each encounter when we werent fight perticulary hard mobs.</DIV> <DIV>I have a bruiser alt now (or should I say main cause he outleveled my mystic(34) the other day). I was in a group in RE with him and we had a lvl 36 inquis in the group, the tank was a 32 pally cause of way better taunts than I have and I would concentrate on dps instead. Anyway we got up to a place with 39^^ mobs and I got hesitant. a 39^^ mob hitting on a 32 pally tank wouldnt last long with my mystic as a healer thats for sure so I was asking the group if we should really go ahead. The Inquisitor stands up and says "*yawn* As long as you can hit it I can keep you all alive.". I was like "If you say so..." and what do you know...  didnt even use half of her power.</DIV> <DIV>Everytime I see how powerful other healing classes are compared to my Mystic his grave seems closer and closer. Dont get me wrong, hes my first char on EQ2 and I wont ever delete him or quit cause of this but its just sad.</DIV>

[BigDa]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RRFatUncle wrote:<BR> <DIV>"I'm wondering if lots of the class problems might come from the person behind the keyboard.  So here I am asking.  This is not meant as a rant, or an opportunity to flame" <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I love it when people insult you and then imply that if you get upset by it, you are in the wrong.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm wondering if people who don't realise the mystic has more than it's share of bugs and bad issues are just so equally bad at the classes they play that they don't notice the difference?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally, since my mystic became to un-fun to play, I have had a much better experience with 3 other classes.  In general, I find them less frustrating and more fun to play and I find I can achieve more with them - my cleric is soooo much better at keeping a party alive than my mystic was.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you actually read a lot of the mystic forum, you will find that most of those 'with a problem' used to still enjoy playing their character, but found a lot of frustrations and bugs that they needed to discuss.  That's all we did for a long time, but as time has passed and things went from bad-to-worse, we must start to sound pretty peed off, I guess, but most people can see it is for good reason.</DIV>

[Godflower]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eloora wrote:<BR> <P>....needs to go ahead and move on from the discussion. You have no place in it. You are the minority, and although you have the right to your opinion, you don't have the right to call the majority wrong, sorry, you don't.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I have an issue with this statement of yours - This type of attitude stifles discussion of the class and strategy and is very negative.   If you truely want to form a cooperative community you will accept minority opinions regarding Mystics as the legitimate individual gaming experiences that they are.   Just because my approach to the game is different than yours doesn't make either right or wrong, it just makes us different.  Do you value the diversity on this board or do you just want everyone to regurgitate your thoughts and approaches?</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Banditman]

The problem with this "minority" opinion is that they are basing their opinion on an incomplete picture of the class.  You simply cannot understand the class until you've leveled to 50.  What's more, a newly 50 player probably has a better understanding than someone who has been 50 for months since they had to level through the CURRENT game. Look, I'm L50 now and I see the problems. In order to make sure I stay in touch with them, I have various lower level alts which I somewhat covertly use to group with lower level Mystics to keep track of where they are. I grouped with a Mystic and a Defiler last night in RE using my Guardian.  They were both good players, but they were STRUGGLING to keep me up against content that a few hours earlier a Templar alone managed to heal me through with relative ease.  Things are not improving for mid level Mystics (or Defilers for that matter). <div></div>

[Godflower]

So my experiences are incomplete, invalid etc. because I am not at level 50?  I cannot speak about the difficulties and strenghts of the mystic because I do not have a full picture yet?   Was there anything you actually liked about the grind to 50 or was it just pure torture? I respect the fact that some players have leveled through the game and experienced difficulties and I have learned a lot from them.  I wont deny that the Mystic class has problems but that doesn't mean I should not express myself if I am happy with some things.  I have noticed that a lot of posters on this board from both sides are now taking the approach of telling others to 'shut up' and I have a problem with people who discount the experiences & opinions of others because they do not match their own experiences, point of view, or their agenda (this works both ways too!).  In some respects it seems like the opinion camps are becoming way too polarized. 

[Terq]

<P>For the most part, everyone here is receptive to the opinions of others.  Well, at least the first 127 times that we hear the same opinion.  The problem is, these "minority" opinions are not new, and are usually just the same arguement that "I grouped with X, and he didn't have a hard time keeping the tank alive.  The rest of you guys must not know what you are doing." </P> <P>Well, what were you fighting?  What level was the tank, and what level was the mob?  Was there another healer?  Was there an enchanter?  All these things can mask the relative weakness of a Shaman's heals compared to other classes.  </P> <P>Wards are broken.  Everyone how has played a Mystic into the 30s knows that.  You don't have to be level 50 to see that there is a huge discrepency between a Mystic's efficiency at keeping a group alive, and a cleric's/warden's ability to do the same.  RIght now, other healers out perform Mystics/Defilers in every exp group situation.  That is against the archetype balance that was promised by the Devs.  </P> <DIV>The mechanics of wards vs. reatives vs. regens has been explained ad nauseum.  As it stands, without mitigation, there is no way for a ward to be remotely as good as a regen or reactive.  We have thus been relegated to spamming direct heals, with our class defining "heal" being absolutely useless.  </DIV>

[Godflower]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Terq wrote:<BR> <P>For the most part, everyone here is receptive to the opinions of others.  Well, at least the first 127 times that we hear the same opinion. <BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I have no bone to pick with people who are constructive and receiptive to others, however there are some people on this board from both sides who are activily trying to silence others because they have a different viewpoint or strategy.<BR>

[Fliss]

<DIV>I don't visit this forum often, but today came looking for some information. Well I read a few threads just out of curiosity. Let me start with what I play. A lvl 49.7 Mystic, so I do play 'the current' game. I am near enough to 50 to have some idea of how to do things with her. I love my mystic! </DIV> <DIV>When I first read spell lists back in the beta days, I got an overall impression of the mystic vs defiler. The mystic is more defensive, and the defiler more agressively a killer. Just my impression, not saying that its factual. Similar with Warden and Fury. The Warden's speciality being heal/defend while the Fury is more agressive again, and could probably kill faster.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I small group, solo and more recently a few raid games. My real life partner plays a Templar and we group with others in the guild together all the time. Until quite recently he was relatively low lvl by comparison and my mystic had to take the role of MT healer, while he spot healed. </DIV> <DIV>We have now swoped roles. I only ever spot heal and support on MT. Where as I used to be oop while he had 3/4 of a bar full, we end up with very similar quantities at the end of a fight now.</DIV> <DIV>So what am I doing with all this power that I couldn't do before? Debuff. I was so busy keeping people alive, that the debuffs weren't getting on. The difference is enormous. The ranger in the group doubles his damage when one is on. The tank (paladin) needs less healing with others on. </DIV> <DIV>I know from when I solo the difference the debuffs make. I notice very much the difference to me when I use water breathing spell for the increased mitigation I get, on land as well as in water. </DIV> <DIV>Most of my spells are Adept 1 only. Just by being in group with me, toss on an Avatar together with group buffs and the tank has 111 extra strength. Tell me another class that can do that? Each to our own I say. Mystics can make a huge difference. Things do die a lot faster, players are safer as a result.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I felt laughed of forums a long time ago when I said Mystics are not prime healers, but damage preventers. Well I was only in my 30's at the time I think, so couldn't argue with higher lvl experience. I stand by what I believed then. My mystics speciality is debuff, not heal. I have 6 debuffs I can toss on a mob (don't know if they stack or not) to a Templars (well, MY Templar/*grins) 2 debuffs.</DIV> <DIV>I don't parse, I don't know if they are all working as should do or not, I admit that.  What I do know is that I am having a hell of a lot of fun with her, helping to kill things a lot faster (through buffs and debuffs), preventing damage being taken (shield and debuff). </DIV> <DIV>I am getting regular invites to join other guilds as they don't have, and very much want, a high lvl mystic in there group/raid. Why, if the class is so broken and unplayable? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just don't get it. I don't stat compare others 'toys/spells' to mine and say 'yours is bigger and better than mine'. I am a hardcore gamer, but I don't 'hardcore stats' and parse and such. I play the game with my mystic to the best of her and mine abilities as far as I know (willing to learn though). The day she becomes to me, truly unplayable and a liablility to others, I will be first in line at SOE's door.</DIV>

[Banditman]

So, you acknowledge that other Priests are able to heal effectively using 25% of the power you do. You acknowledge that your role is as 2nd rate healer. And you don't see a problem? Well, all I can say is "good on ya mate". I have a problem when I am told that all Priests can perform the primary function of the Archtype equally and come to find this to be far from the truth. <div></div>

[Terq]

<P>I am glad that you enjoy playing your Mystic Fliss.  However, you have to realize that you are getting a skewed view of things, since you are constantly grouped with a templar.  </P> <P>The stated vision by the devs is to have every "healer" be able to function as the primary healer (or "damage preventer" for all you who still don't consider a ward to be a heal) within a group.  If all you are doing is debuffing a mob, then that vision isn't being achieved.</P> <P>Anyhow, Moorgard has acknoweldged that wards will be taking AC mitigation into account in the future, so most of this discussion is going to become moot (hopefully).  </P>

[Mystiq]

<P>When I was leveling my Mystic up, I was almost exclusively grouped with one set of people, including a Templar. I played a Templar in beta up to 33 so I knew a thing or two about their capabilities. While I didn't feel like I hit a brick wall at 30 or whatever, I knew I wasn't as effective as the Templar in my group, and on the occaision I had to pick up his slack, it was a struggle at times. Templars get some amazing heals like the Amending Fate line, which for a piddly amount of power heals the entire group when the mob it's cast on dies. I could see the wonder that was the Templar, but I didn't feel like I was that far behind at the time. Now however, I realize just how far behind we are. Sometimes it is hard to recognize.</P> <P>While I didn't exactly level up in the 'current game' (november-december) I also leveled up with really crappy gear and spells, just like everyone else at that time. It was a tough time, but more for everyone than just one class. It actually took me a good while to really see the degree to which Mystics fell behind other healers, so that I was able to stay current with our issues and give my perspective on them as a senior Mystic.</P> <P>Enjoy your Mystic and your playstyle as much as you can, I'm happy for you. Just know that the more challenging the content, and the more time you spend being a primary healer as opposed to back up, the more you'll likely see the issues we face clearly.</P> <P>Regards,</P> <P> </P>

[Fliss]

<P>Hmm. for Terq and Banditman, the points you raised:</P> <P>If my 'ward' is to be classed as a heal, then a heal for 1080 is bad? Thats how much it currently shields for. I see it as a shield, the player doesn't get hit, the bullet bounces off.</P> <P>I have played as prime healer in a group of 6 until lvl 47. That should qualify me to know what a prime healing role is like. :smileywink:</P> <P>I do not <EM>'acknowledge that your role is as 2nd rate healer',</EM> and wont do. My role is as debuffer and shielder. It's just how I play, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but works for me and my group.</P> <P><EM>The stated vision by the devs is to have every "healer" be able to function as the primary healer   </EM>Forgive me for doubting the actual wording of this. I can't recall seeing that actually said.  </P> <P>The quote seems from my memory to be a little like 'money is the root of all evil' when in actual fact the quote should be 'the Love of money is the root of all evil'. Or am I missing something?</P> <P> What I can't find now, but do remember reading, was to the effect that we would all be able to fulfill our primary role. Was it said that the primary role of all priests was healing? That part seems to have been assumed by most. </P> <P>I personally don't think that healing is a Mystics primary role. Thats my point really. Healing is secondary, not second rate. Each class is intended to fulfill a role, and they are meant to be different, and balanced and complement each other. Yes Mystics are healers, and yes the balance power costs compared to Templars just isn't there. But look at the balance between my debuffs and the Templars heals and we expend the same amount of power, doing different roles. I do expect changes, and will work with whats given, thats what a game is all about to me, the challenges met and beaten.</P> <P align=left>EQ2 hasn't quite got there yet I agree, here's hoping with LU7 when it arrives.</P> <P align=left>Eloora: <EM>Just know that the more challenging the content, and the more time you spend being a primary healer as opposed to back up, the more you'll likely see the issues we face clearly </EM>I am the noob here maybe, as I don't raid all the time, but do think this statement is a  tad belittling. Perhaps I gave the wrong impression of my experience to date, but I do have some experience, honest :smileytongue:</P>

[Banditman]

<span><blockquote><hr>Fliss wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>Hmm. for Terq and Banditman, the points you raised:</p> <p>If my 'ward' is to be classed as a heal, then a heal for 1080 is bad? Thats how much it currently shields for. I see it as a shield, the player doesn't get hit, the bullet bounces off. </p> <p><font color="#ff0000">The problem is this:  A 1080 point Ward isnt a 1080 point heal.  It's more like 430 point heal if your tank has even remotely decent gear.  That's kind of a flimsy shield imo.  Fortunately, the developers agree and will be making it a true 1080 HP shield when balancing goes live.</font> </p> <p>I have played as prime healer in a group of 6 until lvl 47. That should qualify me to know what a prime healing role is like. :smileywink: </p> <p><font color="#ff0000">At which point you GAVE UP THE ROLE because another Priest could do it better and more efficiently.  That is just not right.</font> </p> <p>I do not <em>'acknowledge that your role is as 2nd rate healer',</em> and wont do. My role is as debuffer and shielder. It's just how I play, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but works for me and my group. </p> <p><font color="#ff0000">And bully for you.  However, most folks don't have that ideal situation.</font> </p> <p><em>The stated vision by the devs is to have every "healer" be able to function as the primary healer   </em>Forgive me for doubting the actual wording of this. I can't recall seeing that actually said. </p> <p><font color="#ff0000">I'm not digging it up.  It was almost verbatim.  Something about doing things differently but the primary function of the Archtype remaining intact.</font> </p> <p>The quote seems from my memory to be a little like 'money is the root of all evil' when in actual fact the quote should be 'the Love of money is the root of all evil'. Or am I missing something?</p> <p> What I can't find now, but do remember reading, was to the effect that we would all be able to fulfill our primary role. Was it said that the primary role of all priests was healing? That part seems to have been assumed by most. </p> <p>I personally don't think that healing is a Mystics primary role. Thats my point really. Healing is secondary, not second rate. Each class is intended to fulfill a role, and they are meant to be different, and balanced and complement each other. Yes Mystics are healers, and yes the balance power costs compared to Templars just isn't there. But look at the balance between my debuffs and the Templars heals and we expend the same amount of power, doing different roles. I do expect changes, and will work with whats given, thats what a game is all about to me, the challenges met and beaten. </p> <p><font color="#ff0000">And therein lies your problem.  A Mystic is a Priest by Archtype.  The stated function of the Archtype is to Heal.  Your debuffs are NOT part of healing balance.  That was stated EARLY in beta.  Healing was supposed to balance in a vacuum.</font> </p> <p align="left">EQ2 hasn't quite got there yet I agree, here's hoping with LU7 when it arrives. </p> <p align="left"><font color="#ff0000">Where have you been?  We have already seen the release of LU9 come and go and still no schedule for Priest balancing.  LU10 is on Test now, and no mention of balancing there yet.</font> </p> <p align="left">Eloora: <em>Just know that the more challenging the content, and the more time you spend being a primary healer as opposed to back up, the more you'll likely see the issues we face clearly </em>I am the noob here maybe, as I don't raid all the time, but do think this statement is a  tad belittling. Perhaps I gave the wrong impression of my experience to date, but I do have some experience, honest :smileytongue: </p> <p align="left"><font color="#ff0000">Endgame tanks don't take much damage outside of raid situations.  Paladins can function as MH in many situations. </font></p> <p align="left"><font color="#ff0000">If you aren't healing, it's not the same. </font></p> <hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[Eepop]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fliss wrote:<BR> <P>I personally don't think that healing is a Mystics primary role. Thats my point really. Healing is secondary, not second rate. Each class is intended to fulfill a role, and they are meant to be different, and balanced and complement each other. Yes Mystics are healers, and yes the balance power costs compared to Templars just isn't there. But look at the balance between my debuffs and the Templars heals and we expend the same amount of power, doing different roles. I do expect changes, and will work with whats given, thats what a game is all about to me, the challenges met and beaten.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>The "Debuffs as Healing" method has been tried in another game, EQ1.  It didn't work there, and they knew it wouldn't work here.</P>

[Cyanrav]

<DIV>Ya know, I'm cool with it, if ya'll want to do the EQ1 compare to EQ2 FINE, I'm GAME, but beejeebus, give me the DEBUFFS that make it worth my while /blink.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok, reality check, this is EVERQUEST 2, let me get out the little book that came WITH the game, and lets have a look at archtype healing shall we? THEN lets go and have a look at what it says on the OFFICIAL, mind you this is the OFFICIAL EQ2 webiste, now mind you these guys could be smoking crack, and not know what they are talking about, I mean really, just cause they work for SOE doesn't mean they know squat about the game right? Anyhow, back to what the devs, webpages, and actual printed books from Sony say (mind you, whatever your name is, I'm sure you know WAY more about it then the actual planners and devs of the game, because well, I dont' know why...../nods.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ya know, I just realized that I'm way to lazy to do this (look up all this information) and really, tequilla and boards don't mix. /nods. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now for that younker that is going on and on bout EQ1, ya right, I did the whole raid thing, I was sitting in time when most of the server couldn't figure out how the heck to kill fennin, so take your over the board stuff and munch it. I'm not impressed. Been there, done that, I came here (to EQ2) cause I was sold a line, i.e., priest classes can all heal the same, tank classes can all tank, dps classes can all kick out DPS. We know how well THAT promise came in. Granted was told everyone would do it different, and liking a challenge, and having spent FOUR years raiding in EQ1, well, didn't want to go on with that. So off I came, beta tested EQ2 etc....Now, here I sit with a Mystic that is fubared, a Paladin that actually does just as good a job at healing /blink (ok can someone PLEASE explain to me WHY the heck a tank class heals better than my mystic?) and before you get off on "You just don't know how to play" trip, I was playing a Druid when they wasn't cool, and kiting and quadding mobs that everyone said was impossible to do, and no I didn't cheat. I just used SKILL and class KNOWLEDGE, and knowing when to run like a dickens. So bite me with your "You just suck as a player thing" your insulting, and obviously you don't have a CLUE what your talking bout.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/em gets off her soapbox and stalks off</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ryio</DIV> <DIV>Paladin, it's what's for dinner!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cyanravyn</DIV> <DIV>Retired Mystic of Tox</DIV>