Ok I'v been reading the posts that say Mystics are worthless now

[Exos]

<DIV>HaIl,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I play a 20 mystic as one of my characters and he is kind of my personal favorite.  The Barbarian Shaman was my main in EQ1 and thats what I made here.  From reading these posts on the mystic class now it seems like the sky is falling and that mystics are just totally destroyed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm only level 20 and thats why I'm asking is it really that bad?  Is there anyone out there that doesn't think the sky is falling?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If it is that bad what is better to make a templer or a warden?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I really dont want to make some pansy wood elf druid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Billybudd</DIV>

[Chanliang]

Well how to put this.. there is lots of opinions floating around and I myself feel too that we're not gimped but lacking. We aren't best debuffers anymore, we aren't even close being best healers but still as a whole mystics still are nice class if you don't mind other priests performing in healing better than us (except defilers). We definetly aren't worthless but there will be days when I feel so but I'm 40,5 now soloed most of my levels and soloing still rather well, can also heal in teams and raids so can contribute. In the end it comes down how you play your game if you want to be best/better healer then choose cleric or warden if you don't mind playing challenging class (which hopefully gets boosted in combat/priest revamp) then mystic is just fine for you. <div></div>

[Oneira]

They aren't worthless.  When played well Mystics can still do the job,  but they do have major issues that the Devs have not addressed. I think it's more that with the latest downgrade of the Haze line and the way they did it, SOE has added insult to injury and ppl are pretty steamed about it.  We're all still waiting for the great priest balancing patch, which will come sometime in the next couple of months . . .although that is a guess. What will happen after that, what priest class will be where. . .some things are clear and many others are not. <div></div>

[Ibnalno]

Rarely ever posted on this board, but have read it often. Just recently canceled my 45th level Mystic account and quit the game. I would have to agree with the other two that replied. The class is still playable to a certain extent, but I just got tired of feeling like I was a wasted slot in all my friends' groups. I did not like feeling as if I were a charity case for my friends to give a group slot to. I quit the game because I hate starting over. I am moving on to WoW. I would say if you want to be the best and wanted to be a healer, then reroll a Temp. If you want to be competitive with most classes and feel as if you are pulling your own weight in all circumstances, ditch the Mystic.

[CrymsonAnClov]

I think any new mystic at this point will only be happy with the class IF he is stuck in the EQ1 mindset comepletely post Kunark that shamans cannot genereally be the only healer in the group,  they're very used to their slows being crappy ( i.e. slow mitigation in EQ1 along with several resists), and their other utilities not really adding up to much other than just...a utility class... <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you've started a mystic in this game with hopes of those things being fixed, being able to step up, and being able to play a mystic as Sony had sold it to us ( all priests will be able to heal equally, but differently) then you're in for a huge disappointment.</DIV><p>Message Edited by CrymsonAnClover on <span class=date_text>05-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:38 AM</span>

[Muad`D]

I don't think the sky is falling, but it has nothing to do with being oblivious to class problems; it has everything to do with playing with a great group of guildies/friends and them not caring if my class is out of whack. I'm not completely worthless on raids, but i'm also not gonna be solo healing a group if the mob has a nasty AE. I understand the frustrations of those who feel worthless in groups and grinding, I just don't plan on cancelling any time soon b/c i got lucky and met some great people.

[climbhi]

<DIV>Not just Mystics are gimped.  The entire game is.  Good graphics are not enough.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV>EQ2 is a huge disappointment.  The Graphics and sound are great but the the game becomes very boring because it is too sterile.  With all the encounters being locked and no ability to buff other players, No abilities to kite or to be inovative in the play style the game is boring.  EQ1 was a great game because you could be inovative and you could play each class is unique ways.  I found kiting to be lots of fun.  Playing a support character was great becuase you could buff and PL.  I was frustrated with being trained but that was just part of the game and could be avoided by not playing in high training locations and zones.  SOE really messed up with how they developed the mechanics of the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The thing that destroyed the game for me was the number of fixes that need to be made and how classes are very poorly balanced.  I enjoyed playing the Mystic but hate how I cannot even play a gimped class through inovation.  I hate being locked into one play style.  The Haze nerf was the last straw for me.  I was using that spell to make the Mystic class playable-  without that ability and no replacement abilities the game just is no fun.  Sure I could keep a group alive but it is no longer fun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have now started to play a competing game and find that game to be fun and more simular to EQ1.  Plus groups are easier to find beacuse more people are playin that game.  I can solo effectively even as a healing class.  The biggest plus for me is that the game is less sterile.  I just wish that the competing game had EQ2 quality graphics.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Neasawatch retired Mystic</DIV></DIV></DIV>

[FelixDomesticus]

<span><blockquote><hr>Exos wrote:<div>HaIl,</div> <div> </div> <div>I play a 20 mystic as one of my characters and he is kind of my personal favorite.  The Barbarian Shaman was my main in EQ1 and thats what I made here.  From reading these posts on the mystic class now it seems like the sky is falling and that mystics are just totally destroyed.</div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>Wait till you hit 30 and you see why we are complaining.</span><div></div>

[Terq]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FelixDomesticus wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>Wait till you hit 30 and you see why we are complaining.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>How true that is.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I went last night to mentor a low level friend (lv 17) and we went into Firemyst.  Wow, wards really were great back then.  I was able to keep the tank alive without any debuffing, by using only my lowbie Spectral Ward App 3.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, mind you that I don't expect that this should be the case at higher levels, and I like the debuffing that we can do (although every class has debuffs, just go ask your Templar friend), but it does demonstrate the issue that everyone < lv 30 hasn't experienced yet.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Once you start going to Zek, EL, or anything higher, wards just don't cut it.  They are a power sink.  The only time that I use a ward (besides prewarding, which may or may not actually be useful) is on a mage, or on the tank when waiting for one of my direct heals to recharge.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As others have said, when the mob is one that can actually hit the tank, our heals/wards/arsenal of spells (the whole bag of tricks) dont' do as good of a job maintaining the functioning of the group as  the spell arsenals of other healers.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A 400 point ward works great when the mob can only hit for 50.  A 1000 point ward is useless when the mob is hitting for 1200.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Terq on <SPAN class=date_text>05-10-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:41 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Terq on <span class=date_text>05-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:41 PM</span>

[SweetSyc]

I think the most important thing to keep in mind is, with mystic, your next 30 levels are very different than your previous 20. If you are wanting a character who is the best healer against the most damage, mystic is not it at this time. In your late 20s you will probably start to notice a large difference between your healing ability and the healing ability of druids and clerics. But I'm not saying you shouldn't play the class; I still like my mystic, despite her....differences. If you solo or small group often, this class can be fun as is. Just go into it with the information that many of us did not have when we chose the class--you do not have the same level of tools available to you to heal as other classes have. <div></div>

[Cyanrav]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Terq wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FelixDomesticus wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>Wait till you hit 30 and you see why we are complaining.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Now, mind you that I don't expect that this should be the case at higher levels <EM>(using wards to heal)</EM>, and I like the debuffing that we can do (although every class has debuffs, just go ask your Templar friend), but it does demonstrate the issue that everyone < lv 30 hasn't experienced yet. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Terq on <SPAN class=date_text>05-10-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>01:41 PM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Terq on <SPAN class=date_text>05-12-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>12:41 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <P></P> <HR> <P>Um, this is, from my understanding of the Mystic class, using Wards as part of your healing, and a major part is EXACTLY WHAT YOU SHOULD EXPECT.</P> <P>Just my 2cents. To the original poster, you are still in your halcyon days. Play to 35, then come back and tell us what ya think :0).</P> <P>Cyanravyn</P> <P>Mystic of Tox</P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Ironmaul1]

<P> I find the class to be a challenge,we basically have to cast more spells to be as effective and being in a good group really does wonders.If you are in a group you can focus your heals and wards on 1 person ( good tank ) You normally can solo heal the group,add in zones like CT where you get a ton of dots on your group, it can get ugly fast.If you have a group with 2-4 pulling agro and u have to heal them ,ward the main tank and keep the mob debuffed, well basically your fooked</P> <P>.I do very well on raids at 50.I can solo some stuff and do single groups and am basically happy.Whats funny is I have been mentoring lately and my friend the caster ) has been the MT while I ward, we do just fine doing ^^ blues and whites,multi groups of blues greens etc.Its not perfect but we definately are not as bad as you might hear.If you like the class play it</P>

[CyonideWolfp]

<P>I have a 50 zerker main, but as a lot of 50's decided to start an alt to kill time til expansion rolls around.  So I started my mystic and have personally been very disappointed.  I've heard others state that mystics were bugged and gimped and all that, I took it as what typically happens, it's a balancing issue, it's minor, it'll go away.  But this, and I give props to the high end mystics that have stuck it out, is way out of line for the class.  I played my shaman to 27 and quit, and that's not even the worst levels I hear.</P> <P>For a example perspective.  My good friend plays a Pally main.  Me and him group together all the time, and are quite a force.  Well he started a Bard.  We were grouping in SH through most of our levels.  I have all adept 3 wards/heals.  This was working AWESOME for us.  I mean really, we could take 2 heroic white enounters at the same time, just us 2.  With his avoidance and my wards, it's was heaven.  So we got a little higher and started hitting some RoV groups.  We assumed everything would be cake.  Well, we grouped with a 31 zerker who was no slouch.  Keeping him up was dreadful.  </P> <P>I think, and this might have been stated, I haven't read too much on the Mystic boards, is due to how wards fall in the sequence of damage.  It appears that when a mob is fought, obviously the damage is rolled against a certain number, then mitigation and avoidance are taken into account, then it hits the target.  The logical set-up for wards would be to then, have it go against the ward after the mitigation/avoidance step.  What appears it is doing is having the ward absorb the base damage, then the difference is applied towards mitigation/avoidance.  So basically we are warding against a naked tank, and his armor handles what's left over.  I don't know if this really what's happening, but it's what I see and can make sense of.  </P> <P>Either way, I'm retiring him until it gets better, since then I rolled a wizzy.  Man they are fun.</P> <P>Cyonide Wolfpaw - 50 zerker - Befallen</P>

[Terq]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cyanravyn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Terq wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FelixDomesticus wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>Wait till you hit 30 and you see why we are complaining.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Now, mind you that I don't expect that this should be the case at higher levels <EM>(using wards to heal)</EM>, and I like the debuffing that we can do (although every class has debuffs, just go ask your Templar friend), but it does demonstrate the issue that everyone < lv 30 hasn't experienced yet. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Terq on <SPAN class=date_text>05-10-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>01:41 PM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Terq on <SPAN class=date_text>05-12-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>12:41 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <P></P> <HR> <P>Um, this is, from my understanding of the Mystic class, using Wards as part of your healing, and a major part is EXACTLY WHAT YOU SHOULD EXPECT.</P> <P>Just my 2cents. To the original poster, you are still in your halcyon days. Play to 35, then come back and tell us what ya think :0).</P> <P>Cyanravyn</P> <P>Mystic of Tox</P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I agree.   I should be able to rely on wards at higher levels.  My point here is that every person who starts a mystic and only plays him/her up to level 20 is not going to see the problems inherent with wards at higher levels.  My point was that sub-20, a mystic doesn't need to debuff, nor cast haze, nor weakness, or any other debuff.  You can get by quite effectively by simply hitting one button, contantly refreshing ward when it goes down.  </P> <P>At higher levels, I should be able to rely on wards for the majority of my healing, however, that should not be the Mytic's only trick.  While it might suffice to simply "ward-it, and forget-it" for nonchallenging green content, if you are fighting an oragnge/yellow/red encounter, a mysitc should have to supplement the wards with debuffs, direct heals, etc, much like a cleric or druid should have to augment thier reactives or HoTs on similar content.  At level 17, (shattered gulley), my group was able to defeat the named/orange con in there with me only reapplying ward.  It is this one-button playstyle that I refer to as not being able to rely on at higher levels, not the use of wards generally.  </P> <P>I think that we are all on the same page here.  Wards are useless in thier current state.  On a post-30 mob, they are really only good for blocking one hit, or for an "OH S***!!!" cast when you are waiting for your direct heal timers to refresh.  Other than that, they are a complete power sink.  <BR></P> <p>Message Edited by Terq on <span class=date_text>05-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:09 AM</span>

[Banditman]

Wards should be just as important to Shaman as Reactives are to Clerics.  That isn't even close to true right now. <div></div>

[Tita]

<DIV> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>I agree Banditman and why the developers can’t see this or even acknowledge it, is something I don’t understand.:smileysad:</FONT></P></DIV>

[BigDa]

They should make a few of the devs play mystics as their main and if any already do, they should untie and ungag them.

[Merrilee]

<P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Well.. I have a level 20 Mystic.. and a level 47 Templar.  As a 47 Templar, I have to spam my reactives, including the grey Bestowal of Vitae, and my instants, to keep my tanks alive in tough fights..  And all of my heals are adept III.  Sometimes even that doesn't cut it, the heals don't get off fast enough.  Sometimes I need another healer in the group, just as Mystics do.</P> <P>Why anyone would think that Mystics should get by at higher levels occasionally casting ward spells is beyond me, because Templars sure don't get the luxury of sitting there on our hands pressing one button, lol.  And not only that, plate class or not, my Templar can't solo, and Mystics seem to do very well.   In fact, I made the Mystic just so I could go out and do a little soloing and not have to constantly rely on a tank.  I love it.</P> <P>Anyway, all of your comments are interesting, and as I get to higher levels with my Mystic I will report back and tell ya my thoughts on the two classes.. As it stands now I sort of feel y'all are whining : )</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[DejaaVous]

<DIV>As it stands, it's more like you don't know what you are talking about.  By all means get into your 30's and post your own whine here.  Upper 40's is absolutely awful, the pain in the 30's is just a taste of things to come.</DIV>

[Owlbe]

Just hitting lvl 36 with my mystic.  I was happy with him from start to the 20's then it starts going all down hill from there.  I don't know what I would have done if I had'nt picked the the lvl 30 healing ritual training.  It gives me 2- 500+ heals every 13 secs each and since I don't use wards anymore (read rarely or when fighting green mobs as they are not worth the power).  Its getting painful and not fun so I'm shelving my mystic.  Rolling up a Iksar druid and we'll see where that leads.... it has to be a better path than the one I'm going down now.

[Talari]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Merrilee wrote:<BR> <P>Well.. I have a level 20 Mystic.. and a level 47 Templar.  As a 47 Templar, I have to spam my reactives, including the grey Bestowal of Vitae, and my instants, to keep my tanks alive in tough fights..  And all of my heals are adept III.  Sometimes even that doesn't cut it, the heals don't get off fast enough.  Sometimes I need another healer in the group, just as Mystics do.</P> <P>Why anyone would think that Mystics should get by at higher levels occasionally casting ward spells is beyond me, because Templars sure don't get the luxury of sitting there on our hands pressing one button, lol.  And not only that, plate class or not, my Templar can't solo, and Mystics seem to do very well.   In fact, I made the Mystic just so I could go out and do a little soloing and not have to constantly rely on a tank.  I love it.</P> <P>Anyway, all of your comments are interesting, and as I get to higher levels with my Mystic I will report back and tell ya my thoughts on the two classes.. As it stands now I sort of feel y'all are whining : )</P> <P><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>First of all... Funny that you still use a lvl 12 spell at lvl 47. Youd think that one would be useless at that level *boggle*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway...  Like you Merrilee I too wondered what the fuzz was about when I was 20. Not that I had ever been on these boards at all at the time. I actually felt like a powerful healer. To be honest I had my head in the clouds and thought I was more thought after than even templars sometimes hehe. I could sure as hell do as good of a job or even better when hunting giants in TS for instance. But then come the time when I got to 28/29 or so and I started hunting in RoV. A noticeable difference I can assure you. The first skeles and stuff was still manageable but the golems...  OMG I was whacking my keyboard just to keep my wards up, try to fling in a heal every now and then just so I could have time to cast another ward before the tank died.  My first though was, [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] these mobs are too hard, cant be intentional !!! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well I found out later on (on another char) that they really arent. Other healing classes were dealing with them fine. I noticed one day cause I was invited to a group to go there and I was nervous cause of the bad experience I had had from earlier adventures. Anyway I was happy to see that we had a one level higher than me Templar in the group so I figured cool Ill just ward and let the templar do the backup heals between wards. Sure thing hehe  Worked like a charm except I finally gave up on wards cause I couldnt cast them fast enough. Sad thing was that the templar never noticed the difference hehe.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Will be good to hear from you when you get up over lvl 30 and for your sake I hope you enjoy the ride =)</DIV>

[Banditman]

<span><blockquote><hr>Merrilee wrote:<div></div> <p>  Why anyone would think that Mystics should get by at higher levels occasionally casting ward spells is beyond me, because Templars sure don't get the luxury of sitting there on our hands pressing one button, lol.  </p><hr></blockquote> LMFAO. We'd be THRILLED if we could get by at higher levels spamming Wards.  That would be great.  I can, for the same power, cast 2 Wards for every direct heal I cast.</span><div></div>

[kenji]

<P>maybe Merrilee wanna tell us was a joke...</P> <P>my experience...35 mystic <dead> recreate Templar 47 now...healing was 4 times easier than mystic. my templar at 20 already can heal same value as my 35 mystic, not to mention same lvl...</P> <P>if u think Mystic or Shaman are fine...good, your tank must be god lvl of equipment that doesnt require u to heal... but, doesnt mean your shaman good... ya ;P</P>

[Arfiniel]

<P>Ok we may not be worthless but we are darn close.  </P> <P>This happened to me 2 days ago in CT.  Keep in mind we also had a templar in the group:</P> <P>Maybe it was me, maybe it was this guardian tank (I had grouped all day earlier with a paladin and did not have this problem).  Every time he pulled a group, I'd cast my group slow and Howl of the ancients (group sta reduction plus other stuff).  Eventually I'd toss in a ward.  I was not warding within 30 seconds of the pull at least, sometimes even longer than that, plenty of time for the tank to get his aggro.   I'd get all the mobs aggro to me except the one he was hitting (I am beginning to think he wasn't using is AOE taunt), and naturally I would die.  After like 3 deaths (why didn't the templar keep me alive? hmmm), everyone and I mean EVERYONE in the group said "what are you doing to get that aggro."  My answer:  debuffing and warding.   Their reply:  WELL STOP IT.</P> <P>Stop debuffing and warding??  HELLO [Removed for Content] is my class supposed to do?  From that point on I stopped group debuffing and warding.  I cast contagion on the mob and just meleed.  That was it.  Screw it.  Let the templar waste THEIR mana.  Needless to say I was embarrassed, frustrated, and had 0 fun and full power, and tossed in a couple of heals when the templar got into trouble.  While I think a lot of this had to do with the particular tank, it still was a slap in the face.  I shouldn't have to stop debuffing and warding, it's what mystics do.  And we don't do it very well as it is, what with haze nerf and wards never working efficiently, without aggro making it even harder. </P> <P>Ok, that felt good to vent.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Now, just so I'm not always a doom-and-gloom poster, I have been in 3 person groups (tank, wiz, me) and we have taken down some awesome mobs.  If the tank is level 50, he doesn't require constant healing IF I can keep mourning soul up.  Sure I always run out of power and it's always down to the last second "oh no we're not gonna make it OH WOW WE WON THIS FEELS GREAT!!".  It can be awesome in the right situation.</P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by Arfiniel on <SPAN class=date_text>06-01-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:52 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Arfiniel on <span class=date_text>06-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:52 AM</span>

[Banditman]

Wrong order. Ward first, debuff after. It has nothing to do with damage prevention, and everything to do with build aggro for your tank.  When your Ward gets knocked down, it actually builds aggro for the tank.  Yea, it's a really messed up situation, but thats what happens. When raiding, I will *always* pre-Ward our tank before a pull with as many Wards as I can.  I know they don't prevent much damage at all, but they DO help the tank build his aggro quickly right at the start of the fight when his hold on aggro is most tenuous.  On fights where I know he's taking a lot of damage, I'll keep Warding thru the fight simply to help him hold aggro. <div></div>

[Arfiniel]

<P>Wow I didn't know that Banditman.  I thought all aspects of warding gave aggro to ME.  Because it always seemed that way~</P> <P>I do always pre-ward but only with one ward, and a single-target one at that.  I'll try laying it on heavy before the pull, then wait longer for the debuffs.</P> <P>Problem was I sometimes waited until the first of the four mobs was dead before I even cast the slow and still got aggro.  It has to be something I'm doing.  Heck I can stand there and not cast anything and still get aggro sometimes LOL.</P>

[Banditman]

There are two pieces to the aggro puzzle with Ward. When you initially cast the Ward, there IS aggro for you.  Not much, but some.  Its enough to draw the mobs if you Ward after the tank aggros and before he taunts.  However, when the Ward is getting HIT, the aggro goes to the tank. It has to do with the messages.  Any message that says "You" do something, gives you aggro.  But have you noticed that a Ward cast on someone else never gives you further messages?  Thats because all the messages are going to the player with the Ward on them.  "Your Ward absorbed xxx points of damage" for instance.  Basically, once that Ward is on them, they take "ownership" of the Ward.  Works the same way for a Reactive heal as well. Thus, when "you" call upon the protection of the ancestors (ie - casting the Ward), some aggro comes your way.  But once the Ward is in place, all the breakdown aggro goes to the tank. <div></div>

[Merrilee]

<P> </P> <P>Arfiniel.. CT is hard, especially with a pickup group- don't feel bad because you had a guardian tank who did not know how to hold aggro.  I've had better luck with Pally tanks myself, but I'm sure there are many wonderful guardian tanks out there.. somewhere  : )  I will tell you this, since one of my alts is an alchemist.. Pally App IV spell upgrades sell 3-4 times more often than those for any other tank class.. hmmm, something for healers to think about : )  </P> <P>Bandit, thanks for the advice on pre-warding and waiting to debuff.. I know that will come in handy, I seem to get a lot more aggro as a Mystic than as a Templar. </P> <P>Okay, I promised I'd give updates on Mystic vs Templar..  My Mystic is now 25 and still doing well..  Duoing yellow ^^ by Ruins of Karana in TS with my crazy wizard friend... He's 28 but mentors down so it will be more of a challenge, lol.  I don't think I could have done that at 25 with my Templar.  I can solo yellow regulars at 25 with no problem, I have never been able to do that with my Templar, she just does not have enough dps.  All is well so far, will report back again when I get higher level. : )</P> <P>Oh.. someone mentioned using the grey spell bestowal of vitae as a level 47 Templar.. It stacks with the higher level reactive, is not on the same timer, costs almost no mana, and is often a lifesaver at the end of a fight when power is gone.. Wondering if there might be a low level Mystic ward that does the same at higher levels? </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by Merrilee on <span class=date_text>06-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:29 AM</span>

[CrymsonAnClov]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Merrilee wrote:<BR> <P>Oh.. someone mentioned using the grey spell bestowal of vitae as a level 47 Templar.. It stacks with the higher level reactive, is not on the same timer, costs almost no mana, and is often a lifesaver at the end of a fight when power is gone.. Wondering if there might be a low level Mystic ward that does the same at higher levels?</P> <P></P> <HR> <P> </P> <P>The best bet under level 20 would be level 18 Healing Ritual.  Get that puppy Adept III and hopefully you saved your level 20 spec for the group cure.   This gives you 3 decent heal spams on different timers.   Once you get past level 30, you'll appreciate it.</P> <P>You'll learn.  Until they do priest balancing, wards will never be as efficient as reactives.   Enjoy them now while you're still in your 20s.</P></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Karlen]

<font color="#ffff00">>>>Maybe it was me, maybe it was this guardian tank (I had grouped all day earlier with a paladin and did not have this problem).  Every time he pulled a group, I'd cast my group slow and Howl of the ancients (group sta reduction plus other stuff).  Eventually I'd toss in a ward.  I was not warding within 30 seconds of the pull at least, sometimes even longer than that, plenty of time for the tank to get his aggro.   I'd get all the mobs aggro to me except the one he was hitting (I am beginning to think he wasn't using is AOE taunt), and naturally I would die.  After like 3 deaths (why didn't the templar keep me alive? hmmm), everyone and I mean EVERYONE in the group said "what are you doing to get that aggro."  My answer:  debuffing and warding.   Their reply:  WELL STOP IT.<<< <font color="#ffffff">One thing that might have been different between the Guardian group and the Paladin group is that the Paladin might have cast redemption on you (which transfers something like 25-35% of your hate to him).   This is a great spell for Paladin's to cast on healers (or mages) - whenever you generate hate, enough transfers to the Paladin that everyone wins. I have a 33 Paladin and I can tell you that it is much much better to ward before the pull, rather than after.   My Paladin will almost always grab the aggro from the tank if I ward after the pull (since I tend to play main healer more often than main tank).  Unfortunately, it is often really hard to convince tanks to give you warning before the pull to give you a chance to ward.   Of course, as a Paladin, grabbing aggro is not the end of the world as I am well armored <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </font></font><div></div>

[Merrilee]

<P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Thanks Crimson.. I do love Healing Ritual, it is so fast to cast- Templars do not have a fast and powerful one second instant heal like that, it's very nice to have when the casters get hit .  I do have the adept III, nice to know it will still be useful later!  </P> <P>I did not take the spec group cure because it was group cure trauma, and in 48 levels as a Templar I have never seen an entire group get hit with trauma, it is usually only the MT, and does not last long, can be handled with the single cure... So, I took the spec upgrade to wailing haze, which is nice because it apparently stacks with the level 24.6 keening haze.. y'all correct me if I'm wrong about the stacking but they are not on the same timer and both icons do appear on the left when you cast both.</P> <P>Okay, I was in CT tonight with my Templar, as usual spamming my adept III reactives and heals to keep the tank alive and getting a bad case of carpal tunnel... Still hope y'all are not under the illusion that any healer in this game has it easy, hehe : )</P> <P> </P>

[rer]

<P>   as a lvl 48 mystic i'd have to say things are not as bad as you make them out to be last night i was the only healer for a raid on the Mang in lavastorm groupx2 mob took 2 tries but on the second i got all my slows and debuffs to stick  MT never lost argo he did the 1 try  i ended up with 1/3 power at the end of the fight and we only had 8  people in the raid not the 12 we coulda had yes our heals are slow and wards are gone in 1 hit usssually   but  theres ways to work around these short falls those that are complaining about thier mysatic might wanna try diff tatics we have alot  diff spell to use </P> <P>the one short fall i see is there is ne or very little upgrades from  adept 1 to adept 3 but thats true for almost all classes</P> <P> </P>

[Yerma]

<P>From Moorguard on Dev forum......</P> <P>While I as much as anyone wish the priest changes had gone live already, the work is still underway. Every spell and combat art has been looked at, not just healing, so expect a *lot* of changes. In the meantime, we are not going to revert the Haze spells only to change them again in the near future.</P> <P>For those of you who think the only satisfactory course of action is that we change the Haze spells back to what they were, you will not find the answer you seek here. Since buffs and debuffs have been adjusted as part of the spell changes, I'm afraid you'll have to wait a bit longer to see what the end results will be. Sorry, but I'm not going to post full details on the changes we will be making as part of this balance pass until those changes are ready to appear on Test server.</P> <P>I can say one thing that shamans should be pleased about, though: wards will be taking armor mitigation into account.</P> <P>Since this thread has become less about the Haze change itself than it is about complaining that you feel you haven't been heard, I'll lock it since now you know you have indeed been listened to. We just can't give you the answer you want quite yet.</P> <P>===========================<BR>Moorgard<BR>EverQuest II Community Guy</P> <DIV><BR>..........................</DIV> <DIV>To summarize SOE....."You're nerfed, you're staying nerfed, and we're looking at nerfing other healers. So shut up and eat it."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[grimtoo]

I have a 50 mystic, i ran one in EQ and EQOA and am happy with teh character i built, BUT as it stands with all teh "love" SOE has passed our way my only job now is being in teh MT group for my buffs and as a 3rd string healer. My wards are all adept 3 as are my heals and i still get out classed by druids and clerics. I have semi retired my mystic and have taken to running other classes till they fix my bear's abilities so i can be more useful to both a raid and xp groups.

[Grimme]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Yerma wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To summarize SOE....."You're nerfed, you're staying nerfed, and we're looking at nerfing other healers. So shut up and eat it." <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Actually, this part of your post.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"wards will be taking armor mitigation into account."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>un-nerfs things significantly.</DIV>

[Yerma]

<span><blockquote><hr>GrimmeHF wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Yerma wrote: <div> </div> <div>To summarize SOE....."You're nerfed, you're staying nerfed, and we're looking at nerfing other healers. So shut up and eat it." <hr> </div></blockquote> <div>Actually, this part of your post.. </div> <div> </div> <div>"wards will be taking armor mitigation into account."</div> <div> </div> <div>un-nerfs things significantly.</div><hr></blockquote>You know or you hope? Mebbie i should have wrote: </span><span>"You're nerfed, you're staying nerfed, and we're looking at nerfing other healers. So shut up and eat the bone we tossed."</span> <div></div>

[mR_jOHNNO]

I would'nt say mystics are worthless..I've had lots of fun with mine over the levels.. We use up lots of mana but as has already been said as long as the other people in the group are doing their job and the tanks keeping agro then its not a problem.. My spells are mainly all adept 1 and my gear is far from uber compared to some but I've had fun over 50 lvls and thats all that matters at the end of the day I guess as after all its just a game and not a spreadsheet ..so I could'nt really care if my ward is 5% worse than blah's and my heals 10% less than so and so's.. I can do the job in most situations.. A mate of mine who 2 boxes a guardian and fury was with me the other night when we were faced with a lvl 49 x2 epic mob.. His characters were lvl 50 and I was 49..the fury was there for buffs and emergency heals and I was main healer.. It was a close battle (and proberly not even that uber a feat to some on these boards..but I was impressed.. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) but we held on by the skin of our teeth and it changed his opinion of mystics being crap.. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Banditman]

Had you actually taken the time to read a little you would have seen that all L50 Mystics acknowledge that we can do the job in single group L50 content *most of the time* The problem is that in single group, L50 content most tanks just <b>dont get hit.</b>  If you aren't getting hit, or getting hit only rarely, how is that healing? An example: A group went in to Nek Castle 2 with my Mystic as MH (no other healer in group, not even a Pally).  We were able to move through the castle fairly easily.  Every now and then a poor pull or an add would force me to heal a little, but for the most part, I was superfluous. We get to the first sister, and yes, it was a challenge.  We pre-Warded with 3 Wards, I debuffed with everything in my book and we all finished the fight drained of power, very low on health but alive. We said, well, ok, its tough but we can do it.  By the last sister we had a "system" worked out and found ourselves still completely mana drained, but our health was ending higher.  We felt like we'd accomplished something. So here stands Lord Everling.  Same plan as the sisters.  Wipe.  I mean WIPE.  Not even remotely CLOSE.  We got him to 97%. Ok, lets try again.  Fortunately, with some trial and error and judicious use of rez stones, we got everyone rezzed and out of the room to try again.  Thinking we had a better plan, we went after him again. Wipe.  Not even remotely close.  Got him to 90%.  We gave up. The next night, the <b>same</b> <b>exact group</b>, sans my Mystic, added a Templar and went in.  *yawn*  Killed Everling, no problem. Balance exists when a group can replace any Priest with any other Priest in the same content and not change their level of success.  This is what was promised, yet not what has been delivered. Mystics are not "worthless", they simply are not "as promised".  Many people chose to play a Mystic based on the promise of equality.  Those people heard "You are just as good as any other healer in the game" and believed it. Had the Devs stated "Mystics are backup healers only" far fewer people would have rolled one, and those who did would be happy because they knew going in that they would have the role of backup healer. <div></div>

[Stimp]

<P>I have said it before, but I will say it again.  Banditman hit the nail on the head for me.  I played a druid for the first 3 years of EQ, release to just after Luclin released.  Within that time, I went from useful and desirable from level 1-35 to mostly useless and undesirable post 35.  I made it to level 52/53 when the cap was still 60 before finally deciding I had enough.  By that point, the only groups I could get were with guild members and I didn't feel like a part of the guild anyway as I joined after cliques had already formed within the guild.</P> <P>When I got EQ2 and decided to create a healer, I literally spent 2 hours trying to decide which class to pick.  I understand the druid was never meant to be a superior healer in EQ, but they also were not necessary after the clerics got complete heal.  Shaman were more desirable as they could sow and slow and heal.  Druids were also in demand early on for ports, but between velious and luclin, it was clear that ability was being shifted onto wizards.  So here I am at the beginning of EQ2 and wanting to create a desirable character for group based gameplay.  I almost went with the cleric because well, it's a cleric.  I didn't think about druid to much because of my EQ experience.  I know they said all healers would be able to fulfill the role and heal equally, but burned once...  I never played a shaman in EQ, but I knew they were at least highly desired at the time of my departure and decided to believe the marketing hype of balanced archtypes.  I have regretted the choice since I hit Runnyeye at level 30.  I almost re-rolled a templar at level 30, but stuck it out, attaining level 49 before the hours upon hours spent trying to find a group wore me down.  When your own guild turns you down in favor of a 45 fury for Sol E, you know you goose is cooked.</P> <P>I thought I played my class very well, and was fortunate enough to usually have a second healer in the group with me.  The times I did go solo, I had a very tough time keeping the group alive.  If I had rolled a templar I would probably still be playing, rather than waiting for my second 3 month sub to expire.</P> <P>EQ = 3+ years</P> <P>EQ2 = 5 months</P>

[mR_jOHNNO]

Hehe..fair play on that post Banditman.. Its obvious from what I have read on here from you that you know a hell of a lot about our class and I was very surprised at your Nek 2 example.. are we really that bad ? Im fortunate that in my regular group im in theres normally 2 or 3 different healers and a coercer .. But when I am the only healer  I kind of disagree with you that we dont have to heal as the tanks not getting hit..well in my experiences anyway as I find I normally have to heal my [Removed for Content] off  to keep the tank out of the orange for the first half of the fight ..draining most my mana .. Then if the mob is quite hard and the group is low on DPS I may have to rely on manastone and the luck of the proc from the screaming mace to get a few debuffs off on it and for the odd ward and heal to keep everyone alive.. Personally I prefer to group with a few of the lower lvl pallys in our guild and I play the role of main tank and have a few of them healing me instead.. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[CrymsonAnClov]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mR_jOHNNO wrote:<BR>.. Personally I prefer to group with a few of the lower lvl pallys in our guild and I play the role of main tank and have a few of them healing me instead.. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>If that doesn't show how unbalanced our class is, I don't know what does.   We are healers, not tanks.   We should not have to tank and let the tanks heal us.   This shouldn't even be an option.   Tanks tank cuz that's what they do best.   Healers should heal cuz that's supposed to be what they do best.    /sigh</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm an outstanding caster.... I'll be out,  standing over here, casting.  I don't melee.   That's a tank's job.</DIV>

[mR_jOHNNO]

My bad.. I cant even remember typing that.. I must have been supping on too much dwarfen ale when I wrote it and worded that completely wrong. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> . What I really meant was that I enjoy playing the role of tank from time to time and having the lower lvl pallys healing me..and I said that to hilight that there are different ways to play the game as a mystic and get a bit of variety out of our characters..It was not meant to mean that we are worthless..more like that we are versatile enough to adapt to various situations and thats a bonus.. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Surly_Smurf]

<DIV>First time Posting, hopefully this will be of use to someone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've had a love-hate relationship with my Mystic for quite some time. She's Level 47, rapidly approaching 48, and I would like to reach level 50 before retiring her and directing my full attention on a new alt. I mostly solo'd her into the mid 20's, except for groups for AQ's. By the time I reached level 30 solo play was a distant dream. Of course maybe I was being greedy; I was unhappy with the idea that the only mobs I could solo were gray (no XP, no chest drops)! Even then sometimes I burned all my power just to stay (barely) alive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Does it get better? Some. At level 46 I discovered ,Woah! I could handle a (solo) Kromise Giant mob in EF which conned yellow to me. Something I had not been able to accomplish since my Antonica days. Perhaps, finally the Dot's and Attack spells are able to DPS the mobs. If I aggro a Group mob, though, I run! (thank you J-boots and SOW)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do get frustrated when I am grouped with a like-level healer of Templar or Fury class and watch their power bar barely move and keep everyone alive, while in the same encounter I burn almost all of my power on heals and the questionably useful "ward".</DIV> <DIV>Once I accept that I am going to have to use twice as much of my power I find I can still keep folks alive, despite my 2 most powerful heals being on 13 second timers (are the Dev's HIGH?). The wards are a power sink yes, but if I can get into the rhythm of play, especially if we are attacking the same type of mob, and approximately same number of targets per pull, I can get an idea of when my wards are going to expire. I alternate between my Single and Group ward. If I am really in the zone I can begin casting one just in time so that I can see the previous one expire moments before the next ward completes casting. BTW, my single target wards is over 1,000pts and my group ward is over 2100pts (both adept I). You better believe I am out there hunting for rares to upgrade those since I cannot afford the prices on the broker (C'mon people, Gouge much??)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It has been pointed out many times to me that my wards work best with avoidance tanks (Monks/Bruisers) and not so well with Mitigation tanks (Guardians, et al).  I do often have moderate success with Monks and Bruisers but oddly enough I find that my absolutely BEST results are with Zerkers. I don't know what it is about Zerkers but in my experience they keep agro off of me the best (assuming the player knows what he is doing) and I have the easiest time keeping up with their heals. The most crucial thing though is for the tank to understand a mystic's style of protection. I think this is a major reason we as Mystics have problems. Tanks often like to pull, pull, pull. Well, guess what, I just spent 80% of my power on the last pull. What makes you think I can provide the same in-time healing for an identical encounter when you've only given me time to med up to 30%? 1) They need to give me a chance to med power and I'm good to go for the next pull 2) They need to understand I need time to cast that ward on him BEFORE he pulls and YES I cast the Group ward. So what if it only lasts 20 seconds!! Correct me if I am wrong but don't mobs cast a lot of their specials in the first moments of the encounter? Especially when they are at full power themselves? That ward will be chewed up and broken long before the timer expires so go ahead and cast it! Just make the tank sit still long enough to finish it. That's my experience, anyway. Let the group ward soak up what it can before following up with heals or single-target ward as needed.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, I use my manastone CONSTANTLY. Of course If I am drawing aggro this is entirely impractical as I am pretty much going to be chain-healing myself to stay alive, but at least if I'm getting mobbed the tank is probably not taking much damage. I start using my manastone EARLY in combat. Not waiting for my power to be empty. That way my health has time to recover for possible subsequent uses. If a fight is going to be long and drawn out I can get 2 maybe even 3 uses out of my manastone (stupid 1min timer!). Sure it is only 200pp a pop but that's 3 extra 700+hp heals that I could not have given the Tank otherwise. If I waited til my power pool was depleted I'd only have time to gain 1 700hp heal. That last 1400hp CAN be the difference between life and death for the tank. And of course keep that water breathing spell on the tank! They love that +4 Defense. I'd like to see a Dev explain THAT one, though.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Like a lot of my fellow mystics I am cautiously optimistic that the Dev's will keep their promise to make Wards POST-mitigation, instead of PRE-mitigation as they are now. Moorgaard posted that somewhere in Combats, Spells, Abilities I think but I don't know the link off the top of my head, sorry. I feel that if they keep this promise our status will be greatly enhanced. Will it fix everything? No. We'll still have a lot of questionably useful debuffs, but It would sure help a lot. I'd almost feel like a healer again! and maybe even be welcome in a RAID once in a while.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE please keep your promise!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's all from me, thanks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-K</DIV><p>Message Edited by Surly_Smurf on <span class=date_text>06-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:44 PM</span>

[Silda]

<span><blockquote><hr> <div> </div> <div>Does it get better? Some. At level 46 I discovered ,Woah! I could handle a (solo) Kromise Giant mob in EF which conned yellow to me. <b>Something I had not been able to accomplish since my Antonica days</b>. Perhaps, finally the Dot's and Attack spells are able to DPS the mobs. If I aggro a Group mob, though, I run! (thank you J-boots and SOW)</div> <div> </div> <hr></blockquote>I realize Mystics have their problems but this has never been one of them to me - since the solo mobs came out I have been able to solo Yellow con "solo" mobs in my sleep ..(this has been for the last 15 levels or so...im 43 now). It was just never that worth it as the solo XP sucked it seemed...although in Lavastorm the goblins/lizards/ solo fragments are pretty decent solo xp.</span><div></div>

[Xendo]

<DIV>Actually been considering a mystic as a bot toon.  Reading up on some of the contents.  It seems alot of folks have an EQ1 mentality on these classes and thats what most of the issues i've seen are about.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hate to break this bluntly but IMO Mystics are best suited for high avoidance types tanking for them (Monks, scouts and the like) sadly what many discover also is that scouts really don't make ideal tanks.  Monks are better but still they themselves have issues with why are my HPs not comparable to other fighters. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll try to Generalize the various Tank and Priests to explain</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Warriors - Rely on high Mitigation to allow them to outlast there opponent.  They tend to get hit often but for smallest amounts.</DIV> <DIV>   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Crusaders - Rely on Self effects to augment themselves to last longer in combat.  They tend to get hit a little more often as well and for a larger amount but it's offset with self effects replishing them  </DIV> <DIV>   </DIV>

[Xendo]

<DIV>Actually been considering a mystic as a bot toon.  Reading up on some of the contents.  It seems alot of folks have an EQ1 mentality on these classes and thats what most of the issues i've seen are about.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hate to break this bluntly but IMO Mystics are best suited for high avoidance types tanking for them (Monks, scouts and the like) sadly what many discover also is that scouts really don't make ideal tanks.  Monks are better but still they themselves have issues with why are my HPs not comparable to other fighters. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll try to Generalize the various Tank and Priests to explain</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Warriors - Rely on high Mitigation to allow them to outlast there opponent.  They tend to get hit often but for smallest amounts.</DIV> <DIV>  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Crusaders - Rely on Self effects to augment themselves to last longer in combat.  They tend to get hit a little more often as well and for a larger amount but it's offset with self effects replishing them  </DIV> <DIV>   </DIV>

[Surly_Smurf]

<BLOCKQUOTE>I realize Mystics have their problems but this has never been one of them to me - since the solo mobs came out I have been able to solo Yellow con "solo" mobs in my sleep ..(this has been for the last 15 levels or so...im 43 now). It was just never that worth it as the solo XP sucked it seemed...although in Lavastorm the goblins/lizards/ solo fragments are pretty decent solo xp.</BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm sure youre right Sildaan. Perhaps it is better to say that because of my experiences trying to solo in my thirties it took me a long time before I was willing to try to take on yellow's. I was probably capable of doing it for a while longer than I knew I could. It also helps that now I can afford to splurge on a 12+ wisdom hex doll or a nice imbued ring if I want to. Not that I'm rich, in fact since I do absolutely no crafting (only sell vendor loot and the occasional item on the broker) I usually make slow but somewhat steady profit. I wish I had the patience to become a lvl 50 sage so I could be the one charging 25g per adept III spell. Alas, it was not meant to be.</DIV>

[BigDa]

<P>Well, I wasn't going to do it, but I did it - I made a cleric.  I'm 16th level now and can solo reds (sometimes) and keep a group alive against multiple ^^ mobs.  It is WAY easier than my mystic was, even though mystic was pretty fine pre-20th.  If this scales, then it's just ridiculous the diference between clerics and shamans...</P>

[Atin_Les]

<DIV><FONT color=#99cc00 size=2>One of my toons is now a lvl 40 mystic and to be honest I don't see my profession as a healer. If I'd concentrate on healing as a mystic then sure, most of the time the group or MT would die.  Fact, we don't heal very well.  At lvl 40, my best heal is around 640 HP.  With a mob hitting the MT for 1000-2000 HP = instant death.  I normally tank with a berserker who is able to keep ALL the aggro on herself, which means I can ward, heal, debuff to my hearts content.  On rare occasions do I get hit, but at that stage it just means I've got my own group ward protecting me.</FONT></DIV>

[Klerik]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Terq wrote:<BR> <BR> <DIV>Once you start going to Zek, EL, or anything higher, wards just don't cut it.  They are a power sink.  <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I disagree with this part of the statement......  if you look at Power Cost, Dmg Absorption, and Healing value...... to compare your ward with your heal.... You'll see that you're better off Warding that healing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's the part of "keeping up" with the damage on the tank that's the problem.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I typically duo my 33 Mystic with a 35 Monk.... her avoidance / mitigation is high enough that my Wards (and when necessary heals) we can still do Group Orange mobs consistantly.  I'm not saying that we're perfect though... there are a few times that we push the limits and are scraping together dps and power to finish off the fight..... but more often than not, we come through.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's merely a matter of knowing your limitations and not trying to out perform them.  I'd be very hesitant to be the "main" healer in a full group heading for a raid mob.</DIV>

[BigDa]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Klerikal wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Terq wrote:<BR> <DIV>Once you start going to Zek, EL, or anything higher, wards just don't cut it.  They are a power sink.  <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I disagree with this part of the statement......  if you look at Power Cost, Dmg Absorption, and Healing value...... to compare your ward with your heal.... You'll see that you're better off Warding that healing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's the part of "keeping up" with the damage on the tank that's the problem.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I typically duo my 33 Mystic with a 35 Monk.... her avoidance / mitigation is high enough that my Wards (and when necessary heals) we can still do Group Orange mobs consistantly.  I'm not saying that we're perfect though... there are a few times that we push the limits and are scraping together dps and power to finish off the fight..... but more often than not, we come through.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's merely a matter of knowing your limitations and not trying to out perform them.  I'd be very hesitant to be the "main" healer in a full group heading for a raid mob.</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>"I disagree with this part of the statement......  if you look at Power Cost, Dmg Absorption, and Healing value...... to compare your ward with your heal.... You'll see that you're better off Warding that healing."</DIV> <DIV>"I typically duo my 33 Mystic with a 35 Monk"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bandit must be getting slow - this is where he cut-and-pastes a standard response, I think <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's your right to disagree with comments like "wards are useless".  I think it's more correct to say 'wards are <EM>often</EM> useless'.  Your example of duoing with a monk is a perfect example of when wards work.  Unfortunately, that is not most people's experience of the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most accept that "Mystics are worthless" is an exaggeration.  Most also accept that it's a very rare situation where mystics are as useful as pretty much any other class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fingers crossed for the big balancing changes, eh?...</DIV>

[Terq]

<P>I never said that wards are useless.  If you go back to other posts of mine, you will find that I have said that wards are effective in stopping damage to casters and such.  </P> <P>I have also said that due to a ward's lack of mitigation, there is a point where it is more efficient to simply direct heal a tank, rather than cast a ward.  Klerikal, if you haven't reached that point yet, you soon will.  </P> <P>Right now, when I am soloing, I am either in Lavastom or Everfrost.  When I am soloing, I still use wards.  Solo mobs there still only hit for 100-400, so I can usually get off 2 HO's before having to refresh it.  So, yeah, if I am fighting a solo mob, I generally will ward, simply because it is one less thing that I have to worry about.  </P> <P>When I am in a group, fighting group mobs though, I don't ward.  All of a sudden, that ward drops faster than I can recast it, when a group mob is hitting for 1000+.  I end up spending more mana trying to keep the ward up that simply direct healing the tank.  This is true whether it is a heavy or light armored tank.  </P> <P>If you do simply look at power costs, healing value, and damage absorption, then yeah, wards are great.  However, once you factor armor mitigation into the equation, at higher levels, our direct heals become more mana efficient.  </P>

[Banditman]

<span><blockquote><hr>Klerikal wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Terq wrote: <div></div> <div></div> <div>Once you start going to Zek, EL, or anything higher, wards just don't cut it.  They are a power sink.  <hr> </div></blockquote> <div>I disagree with this part of the statement......  if you look at Power Cost, Dmg Absorption, and Healing value...... to compare your ward with your heal.... You'll see that you're better off Warding that healing.</div> <div>  <font color="#ff0000">Using that "new math" again?  When a heal target gets to 50% mitigation, you are better off healing than Warding.  You do understand that Wards have no AC right?  Sure, if Wards currently had AC, you would DEFINITELY be better off Warding.  And that functionality is coming, but it isn't here yet.  Until it is, 50% mitigation = Heal first, Ward only if your heals are all down.  The 40 - 49% mitigation area is kinda gray.  Probably mix Heals and Wards because they both suck, but a high quality (Adept 1 or better) Ward will be superior to most of your Heals.</font> </div> <div>It's the part of "keeping up" with the damage on the tank that's the problem.</div> <div> </div> <div>I typically duo my 33 Mystic with a 35 Monk.... her avoidance / mitigation is high enough that my Wards (and when necessary heals) we can still do Group Orange mobs consistantly.  I'm not saying that we're perfect though... there are a few times that we push the limits and are scraping together dps and power to finish off the fight..... but more often than not, we come through.</div> <div> </div> <div>It's merely a matter of knowing your limitations and not trying to out perform them.  I'd be very hesitant to be the "main" healer in a full group heading for a raid mob.</div> <font color="#ff0000">No one single heals a raid mob.  It typically takes 4 - 8 healers to heal a tank through a raid mob.</font><hr></blockquote> </span><div></div>

[Tula]

Ok first off Mystics are not nerfed. They are widely misunderstood even by those that play them but they are not nerfed. As of now ward stop non mitagated damage to the tank. This means to the above poster that mitagation of the tank in your group means very little till after your ward drops. So you see all these big numbers that your ward is preventing that the tank if properly buffed and equipped for level would not be taking in the first place. One of the reasons you do well with a monk class tanking is because there avoidance is so high pre-buffs. Second off your tank must know how you as a mytic heals. Knowing that allows the tank to readjust his gear more towards hp rather then mitagation, also allows the tank to lean more towards dps weapons rather then a 1hd and shield setup. It also allows the tank not to use a buff to increase mitagation at the expense of offense like most tanks normally do. This simple setup change and understanding how classes work together go a long way towards understanding your class. Third off every raid I plan has a Mystic in the MT group, they plain and simple are great buffers. They not only buff but have excellent debuffs as well and are the most mana effective direct healers in the game. So two classes always make the MT group for sure Mystic(great buffs) and Guardian(great buffs), all other classes are mostly dependant on what you have and what type of mob you are going against. So before you keep saying your class is worthless what other class do you know that you wouldnt want to live without on a raid in you MT group. If SoE ever implements compensation for tank mitagation in your ward equation Shaman classes will be the only 100pct effective healers. All other healers no matter how good they are at timing will never match the power of completely stopping damage without overhealing. Again this makes you extremely efficient at healing even if you dont have the most healing capacity. Hope this helps Tulach Smertnik <div></div>

[Cyanrav]

<DIV>..... are the most mana effective direct healers in the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your kidding right?</DIV>

[Banditman]

<span><blockquote><hr>Tulach wrote:Ok first off Mystics are not nerfed. They are widely misunderstood even by those that play them but they are not nerfed. As of now ward stop non mitagated damage to the tank. This means to the above poster that mitagation of the tank in your group means very little till after your ward drops. <font color="#ff0000">Ah, so, less than a second after I cast my Ward.  Gotcha.  </font>So you see all these big numbers that your ward is preventing that the tank if properly buffed and equipped for level would not be taking in the first place. One of the reasons you do well with a monk class tanking is because there avoidance is so high pre-buffs. <font color="#ff0000">The difference in avoidance between Brawlers and Warriors is minimal.  Call it a flaw in the system.  </font>Second off your tank must know how you as a mytic heals. Knowing that allows the tank to readjust his gear more towards hp rather then mitagation<font color="#ff0000"> A tank at the high end can "adjust" to add maybe 500 HP . . . at the cost of significant mitigation.  So, by blowing his mitigation down the toilet he can add enough hit points to absorb one blow.  That sounds like a great trade off to me.  Thanks for that tip.  :rolleyes: </font>, also allows the tank to lean more towards dps weapons rather then a 1hd and shield setup. <font color="#ff0000">Gee, here's a really superior idea.  Have your tank hitting the mob MORE often, risking MORE ripostes (which bypass mitigation I might add).  </font>It also allows the tank not to use a buff to increase mitagation at the expense of offense like most tanks normally do.<font color="#ff0000">  Wow, blow down MORE mitigation.  You're a genius!  </font> This simple setup change and understanding how classes work together go a long way towards understanding your class. Third off every raid I plan has a Mystic in the MT group, they plain and simple are great buffers. <font color="#ff0000">Excellent buffers?  You went there?  Let me run down the 4 endgame buffs for you real fast.  Runic Talisman?  Identical to the Daring+ line possessed by Clerics.  Numbers are within 1% with different secondary effects.  Daring+ procs a +AC buff, Runic procs a +Noxious buff.  How about Eidolic Mettle?  Within 1% numerically of a Clerics Symbol line.  Secondary effects differ.  Prophetic Line?  EXACTLY Identical to the +Power buffs that EVERY Priest class gets, with different secondary effects.  Spirit line?  The only line which we don't share a primary effect.  So, again, how are we so "superior" to the other Priests as a buffer?  Yea, that's what I thought.  </font>They not only buff but have excellent debuffs <font color="#ff0000">I swear you did NOT just go there.  Howling Haze vs Forced Compliance.  Need I say more?  </font>as well and are the most mana effective direct healers in the game. <font color="#ff0000">Our power / HP ratio is exactly the same as every other Priest in the game when direct heals are considered.  </font>So two classes always make the MT group for sure Mystic(great buffs) and Guardian(great buffs), all other classes are mostly dependant on what you have and what type of mob you are going against. So before you keep saying your class is worthless what other class do you know that you wouldnt want to live without on a raid in you MT group.<font color="#ff0000">  Uhhh . . . "What is a Templar" Alex?  Or . . . what is a Warden?  Templars, reactives, nuff said.  Wardens . . . Duststorm . . . awesome.  </font> If SoE ever implements compensation for tank mitagation in your ward equation Shaman classes will be the only 100pct effective healers. All other healers no matter how good they are at timing will never match the power of completely stopping damage without overhealing.   <font color="#ff0000">Obviously you need to go visit some endgame mobs where a 1200 point Ward, with AC will still lasts exactly one hit.  Yes, with mitigation it probably aborbs one entire hit.  But now you've got another 7 seconds before you can re-Ward . . . so what do you do?  Yep.  Right back to direct healing.  </font>Again this makes you extremely efficient at healing even if you dont have the most healing capacity.<font color="#ff0000">  I'm sure the tank will appreciate that inscription on his headstone.  "His Priest was so efficient it was beautiful".  </font> Hope this helps<font color="#ff0000">  Gosh yes, thanks for your "help".</font> Tulach Smertnik <div></div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[Terq]

<P>Some people here have obviously played EQ1 for too long, and are still stuck in that mindset.  </P> <P>I will agree with one thing though: Mystics aren't nerfed.  They have just been broken since release.  </P>

[Novagel]

Heh.  Let's just hope Mystics become better after the balancing.  As of now,  I don't even use wards on the MT, only before pull.  Using heals is much more efficient.  I'll admit we been broken since launch, but worst off now with the nerf Haze line. 50 Mystic Butherblock <div></div>

[tebion]

the one thing that bothers me though is, that there will be a massive amount of cries for nerfs after the patch for sure as we (at least i hope so) will gain alot in terms of our healing power -> others that are used to the mystics of today will only see the power increase relative to other classes/priests which will be enough for some serious bickering <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> but maybe i am just a pessimist and should gain fate into the good and logic of humankind <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>