Haze nerf not the problem

[Zav]

<DIV>The initial shock of having our one good ability taken away is over and it's time to start thinking rationally again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Haze was overpowered.</DIV> <DIV>You know it.</DIV> <DIV>I know it.</DIV> <DIV>We all knew it.</DIV> <DIV>It was just a matter of time before it was changed.</DIV> <DIV>This is not the problem though. The problem is the same as it was before the haze nerf. The problem is our wards and heals.</DIV> <DIV>Mystic wards and heals need to be adjusted to bring them in line with other healers.</DIV> <DIV>Haze made up for wards and heals not being efficient because it stopped the need to heal. I mean really, if haze worked you didn't need to heal anymore and that's not what we wanted anyway.</DIV> <DIV>We want to be healers and damage preventers using functional wards and heals not by hiding behing an overpowered ability that we can't get by without.</DIV> <DIV>If this nerf brings about the much needed changes to our heals and wards then I am all for it.</DIV> <DIV>The way it was implemented was poor since it shouldn't have been addressed until something was done to improve wards and heals at the same time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let's face it, until haze was nerfed they couldn't increase the ability of our wards and heals without making us gods. Let's just hope that they take the time to fix us correctly now that they have the perfect opportunity to do so. Until the right problems are fixed we're reduced to nothing more than experience sponges due to our low efficiency and lack of tools to contribute to the group makeup. (Good time to have friends)</DIV> <DIV>Now that haze is nerfed let's get our real problems fixed and become the healers we want to be not the debuffers we feared we would be forced to be.</DIV> <DIV>It's a good time to be optimistic since it can't get much worse so let's be "Opti-mystics" (sorry I know that's corny)</DIV> <DIV>-Zavit</DIV>

[Muad`D]

Well said. I had not thought of it from that perspective, but I think that it is a good one to maintain.

[CrymsonAnClov]

<P>At this point, I'll hang onto any last thread you can give me.</P> <P> </P> <P>Please, please, please, let balancing come true with LU#8 </P>

[Banditman]

No one argues that perhaps Haze needed an adjustment. The point in this case is that it is COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY unfair to Mystics for SOE to nerf the only ability that allowed them to function as a healer without putting in the proper tools to offset that loss. Look, the spell has been in since launch . . . AS IS.  I don't see a whole lot of guilds sporting Prismatics, do you? There was no reason to do this NOW.  While it may be warranted in order to allow Mystics to receive the tools they need, it is NOT fair to make the negative adjustment without the positive adjustment. <div></div>

[Zav]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Banditman wrote:<BR>No one argues that perhaps Haze needed an adjustment.<BR><BR>The point in this case is that it is COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY unfair to Mystics for SOE to nerf the only ability that allowed them to function as a healer without putting in the proper tools to offset that loss.<BR><BR>Look, the spell has been in since launch . . . AS IS.  I don't see a whole lot of guilds sporting Prismatics, do you?<BR><BR>There was no reason to do this NOW.  While it may be warranted in order to allow Mystics to receive the tools they need, it is NOT fair to make the negative adjustment without the positive adjustment.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>No argument there. It was a poorly executed change that has disrupted playability and the fun factor for many mystics.</P> <P>Something needs to be done to fix mystics but it needs to be done to our heals and wards not by taking away an ability.</P> <P>Bottom line is if they un-nerf haze we're still broke unless you wanna play a debuffer.</P>

[Itachi53]

<div></div>Well said Zavit. I loved my Haze spell but I'll agree 100% that it was overpowered. Example? At level 49 My illusionist  partner and I began DUOing Iceberg and Tundra Jack, a level 50 groupx2 encounter regularly. <img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/LastASCIIHero/JackandIceberg/IcebergYellow.jpg"> <img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/LastASCIIHero/JackandIceberg/JackRed3.jpg"> While it took strategy, timing, and teamwork to pull this off, it was by and large Haze that made this possible.  This was not an isolated instance.  My partner and I would also duo the icegiant groupx2 encounter in permafrost (the guy outside the door to the drayak instance). We duoed our way through these and other encounters designed with full groups or even multiple groups in mind.    Although it hurts a lot to get nerfed, I think Zavit reminds us of some great points that we need to keep focused on in the challenging weeks ahead. We all agree it was a bad move for them to nerf us before fixing us.  But perhaps they didn't have a choice as they said.  I would rather lose haze now and be fixed in the long run than have to deal with exacerbated problems later on because they didn't properly deal with our extremely overpowered ability. This is not the end of the world. Priest balance is coming.  Furthermore, many of us were terrified of being typecast into the 'slower' which is exactly what was happening to us with the state of Haze. The shock for us all was great.  But its time to say good riddance to the ability we were hiding behind and be Opti-mystic about the future of the Mystic Class. Koju Level 50 "opti-"Mystic of Antonia Bayle <div></div><p>Message Edited by Itachi53 on <span class=date_text>04-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:24 PM</span>

[Gel]

<span><blockquote><hr>Zavit wrote: <div>The way it was implemented was poor since it shouldn't have been addressed until something was done to improve wards and heals at the same time.</div> <hr></blockquote>I completely agree with you.</span><div></div>

[Stimp]

Well, I see a mystic and an illusionist duoing tundra jack, but I would think this is atypical.  My 49 mystic and 4 others took on Tundra Jack and when the battle was over myself and the mid 40 Fury were OOP.  Yes I kept haze and chimerik on the mobs, but it certainly didn't trivialize the encounter.

[Spag]

<DIV>This makes me wonder if with a chanter, you can regain more power during the duration of a mez than it took to mez.  If this is the case they can fight till low on power, mez, and regen, rinse repeat, until full power again and continue the battle.  </DIV>

[Banditman]

The trick there is that it doesn't matter. The Mystic fights the encounter until he is low on health / power.  The Chanter mezzes the mob.  Since the Mystic has Breeze on him, he's gonna regen pretty [Removed for Content] quick - even quicker with a few heritage items (GEB's, Manastone).  Chanter can continue to mez until the Mystic is comfortable with his power and health levels, then let the mez drop. The other half of that equation is that the Enchanter can POWER DRAIN.  40 seconds into the fight, the mob is out of bloody power.  As we all know, 65% of a mobs DPS comes from his specials, which are GONE. So, think about it again . . . is it really the Haze . . . or is the the power drain?  My money is on the power drain. <div></div>

[Itachi53]

<div></div>I won't argue that power drain is a helpful tool.  But 40 seconds into the fight, a tanking mystic should be dead 100 times over against an epic groupx2 encounter mob.   Furthermore, epic mobs have TONS of mana, it took multiple minutes for my partner to drain his mana, not 40 seconds. On top of that , it didn't even matter if he took aggro, because he can tank them nearly as well as I can, and that is more than efficient enough,  because they couldn't even hit us. In other words, Haze could diminish even epic mobs into easily defeatable jokes.  And while was true that between our powers we could mez and slowly regain mana, it was largely unneccesary unless we got trained. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Itachi53 on <span class=date_text>04-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:21 PM</span>

[Banditman]

Your partner is doing something wrong.  I don't know what. My regular group enchanter can drain a ^^ in less than 40 seconds easily. <div></div>

[Chanliang]

If you ask me haze wasn't that good. And why? Yup I had -26 debuff mod on it which on player should be close to 5 levels. I soloed yellow nightblood with and without haze and ended up on same hp/power roughly as without it now and before patch. Hmm lets see if it really would lower target mobe by 5 levels then I should be able to solo white/yellow ^^ mobs, really died even looking at them. Rare blues ^^ I might have been able to kill. Now let's toss it to tank which has way too much defence and now you might be able to duo some white/yellow ^^'s. Haze wasn't lowering mobs by 5 levels, 1 or 2 at max. Combat system is broke no doubt about it but our haze wasn't overpowered IMO. It didn't alllow raiders to kill big bosses hardly any easier cause tanks we're already sickly buffed. Every profession needs something CA/spell/skill/utility/whatever to make prof feel like "uber" at somehow, not overpowering but something that they can see and feel working. There needs to be catch to play a prof and now mystics at the moment don't have anything, anything at all to offer except perhaps all group cures. People will always be sick at their or other professions if they really don't have anything specific/great/fun to offer. Until SOE doesn't figure this simple thing out people will cry their lungs out at forums.<div></div>

[Spag]

<P>The reason I brought it up is because if he can, then he is able to recoup the power to do so and therefore has a limitless supply of power.  Where as if he cannot, then the power is limited to what he can recoup during a mez + between mez.</P> <P>Looks to me like it is.  Must take forever to kill, but good strategy though.</P>

[disru]

As I've said before, I am upset that haze was completely butchered. I would have understood a "tuning" or a "toning down" I am extremely angry that there was absolutely no testing done on this before it went live. <div></div>

[Noosehunt]

When are they going to nerf chanters? <div></div>

[Jinb]

<DIV>I have to say i'm impressed with iceberg kill <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>And i tend to agree with Zavit, haze was overpowered.. mystics(atlvl50) aren't supposed to solo 46^^ mobs without healing once and end up with 60% power after a fight(yes, i did that myself a few times before nerf). Haze now is way underpowered though.. i mean inquisitors have debuff encounters melee by 8. And they can actually heal raw hitpoints.. </DIV> <DIV>I was doing return to nek tonight and one groupmember(not the tank) got hit by a 3.8k nuke. How should a mystic handle this? It would take over a minute only using enlightened healing to make up for that one nuke.. at the same time tank was taking dmg and mob needs to be debuffed. A ward and a reactive heal cant do much in this situation. The spells needed here is instant heal or heal over time. Or does soe expect mystics to keep groupward up all the time? </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, luckily i had a fury in this group that could compensate my lack of healing ability. You should try return to nek as soon as you get a chance imo <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> They buffed nameds and it's actually a challenge to kill lord everling.. couldn't have done it without geb and screaming mace :p</DIV>

[Jinb]

<P>Oh, and btw.. after the nerf i was able to solo the same 46^^ mobs but now with 10% power left although at a much, much greater risk.. Using smite and contagion for HO's at the end and never ever using ward :p</P> <P> </P>

[Itachi53]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Banditman wrote:Your partner is doing something wrong.  I don't know what. My regular group enchanter can drain a ^^ in less than 40 seconds easily. <div></div><hr>A regular yard trash ^^ can be drained in 10-15 seconds easy. I agree. However, Iceberg and Tundra Jack can hardly be considered a regular encounter. They are not only an epic groupx2 encounter which means they hit harder, have more hitpoints, and have a truckload of mana but they are also both "named" mobs, which also means they have more hitpoints, hit harder, and have more mana. <span>Epic mobs of this nature would take a single enchanter multiple minutes to drain fully.  So long in fact, that it wasn't even worth the time to drain him.</span> For example, consider the 2nd picture of the fight with Tundra Jack at 20% health.  He STILL has 60-75% of his gigantic mana pool after a 5-10 minute battle.  More than enough to use any special style.  So instead of comparing what your regular group enchanter can do to a ^^, to what my enchanter can do to an epic mob, why dont you tell us what he says about the mana of an epic groupx2 mob. </blockquote></span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Itachi53 on <span class=date_text>04-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:23 PM</span>

[Banditman]

Drained in a minute flat.

[stoutbrewdrink]

<DIV>its not the fact that haze was overpowered. Its just the thing that finally tipped the scales for ppls anger towards the mystic class. I mean that was probably our only useful spell and now its gone too. We suck, you know it, i know it, we  know it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>wards</DIV> <DIV>heals</DIV> <DIV>debuffs</DIV> <DIV>spell fixes</DIV>

[Itachi53]

<span><blockquote><hr>Banditman wrote:Drained in a minute flat. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Alright, perhaps an enchanter in a larger group concentrating solely on draining for the first minute could possibly drain it in one minute.  (My enchanter is requesting screen shots.) But either way it doesn't change the fact that a mystic was easily tanking these encounters WITHOUT the use of powerdrain, as is clearly visible in the screenshots.  Because the encounter was already trivialized because of Haze, whats the point in powerdraining?  </span><div></div>

[Banditman]

The point is that an Enchanter has an ability FAR superior to Haze and no one has even CONSIDERED removing it.  Not that I think they should, I'm just saying . . . Haze was not that [Removed for Content]' overpowered. Had they simply knocked it down to 18 or so, I doubt many Mystics would have even argued. <div></div>

[Itachi53]

<span><blockquote><hr>Banditman wrote:The point is that an Enchanter has an ability FAR superior to Haze and no one has even CONSIDERED removing it.  Not that I think they should, I'm just saying . . . Haze was not that [Removed for Content]' overpowered. Had they simply knocked it down to 18 or so, I doubt many Mystics would have even argued. <div></div><hr></blockquote> If the enchanter drain ability is so far superior to haze, why was it not even necessary to use it after hazing the epic encounter? I don't understand how you can plainly see a mage and a priest tanking these named epic encounters and not have the thought that it was overpowered cross your mind.  No one is saying it didn't hurt to lose it.  I of all people know that, I lost my rare resource a day from these encounters.  But it needed to be done.  Unforunately, they chose to do it without giving us something to work with to help our healing in the mean time before priest balancing. </span><div></div>

[Leorange]

<DIV>*bump*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just like opti-mystic threads! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=1><EM>btw frowning uses way more muscles then smiling..</EM></FONT></DIV>

[Banditman]

20 day old thread for teh WIN!!111!! <div></div>