A little recognition... Moorgard speaks!

[CroKe]

<DIV>Posted here: <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=32490#M32490" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=32490#M32490</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Quite a bit spoken in defense of the silence that has deafened the ears of this mystic, but one item that did stand out, though...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Priest balancing, including: wards vs. reactives vs. regens, both for effectiveness and aggro generation; warden vs. fury balance, etc"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At least they've addressed it. Here's hoping it is resolved in the way I'm sure we all feel it should and need be.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>--CroKevi</DIV>

[Mystiq]

<DIV>That's all we wanted to hear. Sheesh was it that hard for a dev to come and just acknowledge the existence of balance issues with the intent for them to be addressed :smileytongue:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[TheRealMo]

It's encouraging to see that they are looking into it. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Gura]

<DIV>:smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

[Merrygr]

<DIV>Indeed, all I wanted (and I assume a lot of others too, but I will not speak for them) was a statement that they are looking at the balance issues. If they find that we are balanced, so be it, but at least they are looking at it.</DIV>

[FelixDomesticus]

It is nice to see that they are actually doing something to wards. I must admit that I was very frustrated due to several Eq2 bugs when I wrote the post to which Moorgard replied, so my output was not even closely what it should have been. But we got an answer and thats what matters.

[Terq]

<DIV>I actually just saw the thread, and was headed over here to make sure that there was a link to it.  Looks like I was a little late.  Leave it to the Mystic to be on top of this already.:smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here's hoping that they see the obvious....</DIV><p>Message Edited by Terq on <span class=date_text>03-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:43 AM</span>

[Kalam]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Felix Domesticus wrote:<BR>It is nice to see that they are actually doing something to wards. I must admit that I was very frustrated due to several Eq2 bugs when I wrote the post to which Moorgard replied, so my output was not even closely what it should have been. But we got an answer and thats what matters.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>It's quite apparant you touched a nerve Felix heh.  I haven't seen a post that long and detailed from Moorgard in a long time, other than standard announcements.  I had a feeling they were looking a Priest balancing, mostly because of Moorgard's comments regarding heal aggro.  Although I'm reserving any excitement until I see what they actually plan to do.</P> <P> </P>

[FelixDomesticus]

<blockquote><hr>Kalamos wrote:It's quite apparant you touched a nerve Felix heh.  I haven't seen a post that long and detailed from Moorgard in a long time, other than standard announcements.  I had a feeling they were looking a Priest balancing, mostly because of Moorgard's comments regarding heal aggro.  Although I'm reserving any excitement until I see what they actually plan to do.<hr></blockquote>I was actually very surprised to get any answer from devs. I was expecting just one star and few rants from players as my post was basically just a frustrated rant for blowing off some steam. Anyway mystics, defiler and furies seem to have all linked that post to their class forums and seem to be praising Moorgard. I must admit that he wrote an excellent post.

[Fel]

Wow would of been much eaiser to find if it had been in response to one of the dozen threads regarding the issues, but its good to finnaly hear!I guess the big motivator for communication is calling them out with examples on what people will get from the "other" game heh

[Daly Carson]

<DIV>Nice to see that SOE is listenting :smileyhappy: It's wonderful to actually see communication between the community and Sony working opposed to EQ1. I don't believe I ever saw anything useful come from the old school eq1 boards like we have here. Btw Kalamos is teh suk, give me a mod rod~</DIV> <DIV>-Daly Carson-</DIV>

[Gullui]

I have to add my own applause to Moorgard for his post. While he doesn't specifically address any of the current thoughts being bounced around at SoE concerning what they plan, his statement that they ARE looking into the balances issues (effectiveness, agro issues, etc) concerning Wards is a very welcome thing. While I'm sure there is a line of attack already in the works for the changes they plan, the reason they likely haven't announced them yet is very simple: it's still being reviewed like he said. If they state they are looking at one line of change, then for balance reasons opt not to use it but instead try something else.. you think the silence was bad, the outrage from players at that would be deafening (at least by some). Personally I'm hopeful concerning Wards now. It is a recognized issue (at least peripherally) and is being looked into. That's all we can ask for at this point. (Well, aside from other bug fixes/reviews for other spells, but then Moorgard said they were looking at the other stuff too).5 stars to SoE.. for now. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Viroxi]

<DIV> multiple post somehow sorry <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by Viroxian on <span class=date_text>03-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:28 PM</span>

[Viroxi]

<DIV>  deleted mutiple post</DIV><p>Message Edited by Viroxian on <span class=date_text>03-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:29 PM</span>

[Viroxi]

<DIV>    I would applaude this , if I believed it to be true. Disregarding the communication topic, the issue of Wards must not be being looked into actively, based on today's MAJOR update. This update is massive, implementing the new mentoring system, uprgrading solo and small group exp, decreasing exp debt, and oh yes, a SLEW of class related fixes, changed etc. Go have a look at the update notes and you'll see classes that were already doing quite well tyvm, have numerous fixes, changes and updates. What did we Mystics get? A spelling change and our debuffs "correctly" (meaning they were already supposed to do this and didn't) reduce stamina. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, I'm not by any means suggesting that other classes should remain stagnant while our issues are addressed, what I AM suggesting is that based on board discussions related to serious class needs, the amount said about mystics by not just mystics, but other players that have to GROUP with us, far outweighs that of most other classes.  So my point here being, in an update this monumental, I would have thought this issue would have finally been fixed, adjusted, changed , updated, or noted as "we don't think you need a darn bit of change". Instead we recieved nothing related to our main cause for concern. I haven't said much on this topic because I thought in due time it would get it's day in court so to speak, but we've been this way since launch, and it's high-time imo that something was done, or we were simply told nothing WOULD be done. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If nothing is going to be done, unlike most others I won't claim I'm going to leave EQ2 because of time I've invested blah blah blah, I won't. I love the game for the most part, the people, the graphics, the mobs, the adventure...all appealing and I applaude SOE on THAT point. What I probably will do is just keep on playing my same character and hope that groups understand I can't be an effective healer for them realistically in higher level encounters.  I won't even say I'll switch to my alt, because I'm level 40, 50 is in sight, and I dread the thought of not finally reaching the peak when I can see the rainbow at the top <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So no threats of what I'll do or what I think others will do in my post here, just more begging and venting because I think when this many people are upset it's fairly certain the issue is real, and should be addressed. With the magnitude of this update I really thought when I got to the Mystic section I was going to see "Wards will now..." or "Wards have been ..." but instead I got a spellfix .</DIV><p>Message Edited by Viroxian on <span class=date_text>03-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:14 AM</span>

[Kalam]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Daly Carson wrote:<BR> <DIV>Nice to see that SOE is listenting :smileyhappy: It's wonderful to actually see communication between the community and Sony working opposed to EQ1. I don't believe I ever saw anything useful come from the old school eq1 boards like we have here. Btw Kalamos is teh suk, give me a mod rod~</DIV> <DIV>-Daly Carson-</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>LOL hey Daly.</P> <P> </P>

[Triyton]

<DIV> <FONT color=#ffcc66> </FONT><FONT color=#ccff66>I would applaude this , if I believed it to be true. Disregarding the communication topic, the issue of Wards must not be being looked into actively, based on today's MAJOR update. This update is massive, implementing the new mentoring system, uprgrading solo and small group exp, decreasing exp debt, and oh yes, a SLEW of class related fixes, changed etc. Go have a look at the update notes and you'll see classes that were already doing quite well tyvm, have numerous fixes, changes and updates. </FONT><FONT color=#3333ff>What did we Mystics get? A spelling change and our debuffs "correctly" (meaning they were already supposed to do this and didn't) reduce stamina</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P>I would say that this part, even if it was thought of as pleasing Mysics, amounts to "tossing us a bone", compared to the mountain of bones needed to fix wards.  Whereas it has been pointed out that the patch that increased mitigation of some armor actually made wards worse in comparison to reacives and HoTs, which benefit from the recipients armor.</P>

[FelixDomesticus]

<blockquote><hr>Triyton wrote:I would say that this part, even if it was thought of as pleasing Mysics, amounts to "tossing us a bone", compared to the mountain of bones needed to fix wards.  Whereas it has been pointed out that the patch that increased mitigation of some armor actually made wards worse in comparison to reacives and HoTs, which benefit from the recipients armor.</P><hr></blockquote>I recall that Moorgard or some of the devs said that light and medium armor now mitigate almost the same amount, so now it is all the same which armor you use as long as it is not heavy and you like the stats. So much for the benefits of medium armors...I see a major difference (in real life) if I wear chainmail compared to some cape that casters use. It is an insult that light cape now mitigates almost as well as chainmail. That means we have just different graphics for our armors with almost no benefits compared to light wearers. That makes no point to separate healers with armors at all. Why do not they just give heavy armor to all healers now that medium is nerfed?<p>Message Edited by Felix Domesticus on <span class=date_text>03-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:14 PM</span>

[Triyton]

<DIV>Actually, mages wear "very light armor".  You can't compare it to medium armor.  Light armor I believe is worn by priests  before level 10, and by druids forever, and I think by mitigation fighters.</DIV>

[icetower]

<DIV>Kinda dumb that druids can not wear our armor but we can wear theirs.</DIV> <DIV>Same goes for templars who can wear all of our armor, but we can't wear theirs.</DIV> <DIV>So if armors become more equal in terms of mitigation, it gives some classes a much better chance of upgrading than others.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Merrygr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> icetower wrote:<BR> <DIV>Kinda dumb that druids can not wear our armor but we can wear theirs.</DIV> <DIV>Same goes for templars who can wear all of our armor, but we can't wear theirs.</DIV> <DIV>So if armors become more equal in terms of mitigation, it gives some classes a much better chance of upgrading than others.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Actually, to me the worst bit is that as a priest I really want the best power/wis I can get on armour. I consider AC to be way back in the priority list. This means that druids get really shafted and that clerics get all the choices. Poor game design in my view as the armours differ greatly in their stats. This should have been like in EQ1 where you wear ONLY your type of armour.</P> <P>AC for a priest is not all that usefull in my view. I'm pretty sure that the rate our hp goes down is influenced more by other things than pure AC.<BR></P>

[Triyton]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Merrygrin wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> icetower wrote:<BR> <DIV>Kinda dumb that druids can not wear our armor but we can wear theirs.</DIV> <DIV>Same goes for templars who can wear all of our armor, but we can't wear theirs.</DIV> <DIV>So if armors become more equal in terms of mitigation, it gives some classes a much better chance of upgrading than others.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Actually, to me the worst bit is that as a priest I really want the best power/wis I can get on armour. I consider AC to be way back in the priority list. This means that druids get really shafted and that clerics get all the choices. Poor game design in my view as the armours differ greatly in their stats. This should have been like in EQ1 where you wear ONLY your type of armour.</P> <P>AC for a priest is not all that usefull in my view. I'm pretty sure that the rate our hp goes down is influenced more by other things than pure AC.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>AC determines your chance of avoiding being hit.  The type of armor determines the armor damage mitigation, which reduces the damage from the hits that you do recieve, with the mitigation going up as the heaviness of the armor goes up.</P> <P>It is not dumb to say that someone cannot wear a higher armor than he is allowed to, and that someone can wear a lighter one.  Until level 10 you couldn't wear medium armor, only light.  Now at level 11 you aren't allowed to wear it any more?  Platemail wearers somehow lack some mythical skill to wear mere chainmail?  The restriction is on how heavy (maximum) your armor can be, that is it.  Druids shouldn't be able to wear plate under their fur (which already benefits them), that's an advantage that Clerics should have, any more than Scouts should be sneaking around in plate or chain mail.</P> <P>I want Wisdom on my armor, but AC and damage mitigation are not way back on my list of things I want from armor.  When I catch aggro, it will keep me alive longer, giving me time for the tank to get the aggro back, or the fight to end with me still alive.  I may even be able to keep right on healing if my armor is good enough to limit the hits and damage done.  One more point of wisdom is not going to keep me alive and a dead priest is not going to serve my group.</P> <P> </P>

[Viroxi]

<DIV>It isn't 1 more or less point of wisdom we are speaking of here. There is a very cumulative effect when you start adding up 2 or 3 wisdom and 5-10 power per item. What makes these wisdom/power points even more precious is that we cannot equip anything in the ranged slot, thereby missing out on a whole items' worth of power/wis. I have some decent gear (Viroxian on EQ2 players.com should you want to look) and I'll often get asked by Mystics higher than me , or even other toons how I have so much power at level 44. When another healer , be it templar or inquis or defiler, in my group is out of power I'm still warding the tank , healing, slowing, etc. Sure, it may not seem like a big sacrifice when you only look at one item, but as I said..you have to look at the overall picture.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is only fiction in your truth</DIV>

[Triyton]

<DIV>Here I thought you were touting the benefits of stepping down to some light armor to get armor with better Wisdom on it.  All seven of your armor pieces are medium,  and six out of seven are what would seem to be player crafted armor (not to say it isn't very good).  Apparently you agree with me it is best to stick with the maximum allowable (medium) armor and search for wisdom plusses when buying them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Merrygr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Triyton wrote:<BR><BR> <P>I want Wisdom on my armor, but AC and damage mitigation are not way back on my list of things I want from armor.  When I catch aggro, it will keep me alive longer, giving me time for the tank to get the aggro back, or the fight to end with me still alive.  I may even be able to keep right on healing if my armor is good enough to limit the hits and damage done.  One more point of wisdom is not going to keep me alive and a dead priest is not going to serve my group.</P> <P><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm by no means saying that you are wrong about the AC and mitigation. I'm slightly (actually more than slightly) biased by the way things worked in EQ1. I must say that I have not noticed any difference in my ability to "tank" a mob and the ability of a cleric or a druid. We all have different armour (and different AC), but we also go down way faster than a tank. Now that mitigation was upped by 35% (Moorgard said the diff between light and medium was very small now) I have not seen any reason to not pick light armour over medium if it gives me more power. Yes, the AC value is lower, but that means very little to me. Add to that the fact that the only times I have died when the MT is still standing is in situations where no amount of AC would have helped me.</P> <P>So until I have seen evidence that better AC will actually help me, I will stick to the higher power items. I know that helps me, but I'm not yet convinced that better AC and medium vs lighter armour makes much of a difference. Maybe when the new AC numbers that is split into mitigation and avoidance are shown, I might change my mind.</P> <P>More power also have the benefit of a higer power regen (per tick).<BR></P>

[Viroxi]

<DIV>Maybe there is only  fiction in MY truth...lol....I totally misread your post, and after your reply had to reread it. I thought for some reason you were saying wisdom didn't matter entirely..blah blah etc. Anyway my bad. Yes I think bot AC, and wisdom...power...matter. I think the best way to sum up ANY character in EQ 1...or EQ 2 or any MMO is balance. Balancing your stats will allow you to be effective in the most situations.  So, I'm man enough to admit I was wrong <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> sorry bout that..I misread.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Humbly going away now, </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Viroxian</DIV>

[Banditman]

<P>Every 100 points of Mana, whether obtained directly or thru Wisdom increases, is 1 power / tick regen in combat.</P> <P>Get as much Wisdom and Mana as you can thru whatever means necessary, it all adds up.  </P> <P>Your armor itself is unlikely to save you, but the stats and the benefits of those stats might well save your group many times over.</P>